EV Digest 2505
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Festiva conversion
by "john kangas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Festiva conversion
by "john kangas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Festiva conversion
by "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV Archives ??
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Evercel cycle 102 report chart
by "Glenn Crosby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Festiva conversion
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: TOU Meter Online
by "David McAlister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Festiva conversion
by "john kangas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by harsha godavari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EVLN(JOB: Traveling Military EV Sales)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EVLN(Ford Will Not "Think" - but Kamkorp will)-VERY LONG
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EVLN(Did Segway ply CA gov to create & pass SB1918 ?)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Wireless remote for e-meter & EV Dash
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EVLN(TH!NK Cabrio - Convertible City EV)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don't know if this will help for parts sourcing or whatever, but the
Festiva (certainly the first generation ones, and I believe all of them)
was a re-branded Mazda 121. Incidentally, the 121 is still sold by Mazda in
Europe and Asia. Don't know if modern parts would fit in the older models,
but it might be worth looking into.
--
One of the best reasons I considered this chassis! Found out about this
through my spare job at a local Mazda hotrod shop, checked one out, and
there's tons of room. The rear floor remains flat under the rear seat, and
it's even carpeted, my own present Festiva rear seat has been evicted, and
it's now a perfect Northwest 1/4 ton pickup!
Uh, I also came across a cheap MX-3 engine, and it's the same engine block,
even the fuel injection plugs right in. So, now I've got an overpowered gas
Festiva, but I'm tired of gas engines. Greasy, stinky, expensive things.
Anyways, it's no big deal to upgrade parts on these, up to a point. The
heavier Aspires are the same chassis, and the brakes and suspension swap
right over. I'm not sure, but I've heard that the Kia Rio's are still using
this chassis. The parts may be interchangeable, we'll find out as soon as
they hit the wrecking yards. The newer Mazda 121's or Kia Pride's are also
"Festivas". So the parts will be available in the future, even if Ford is
trying to orphan the Ford badged models. For a while, they even tried
pricing windshields at $1500!
John
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Sure enough I saw one for sale yesterday with 4 speed a 83 and in good
shape
. The guy had 200K and said he go almost 40 mpg . Doesn't sound like your
building a race car (nothing wrong with that) ,. I like the t 105 or other
golf cart bats for a conversion were speed is not everything.
I do have that little voice in my head telling me to go for Optimas and
Raptor and Warp motor... maybe later. The festivas can easily do better than
40 mpg, mine with the stock engine never did worse than 38, even when I
tried.
I had both
the 6.7 motor and the 9 in my 2nd conversion and if your buying them new
then I would get a least an 8" it's not that much more . Are you thinking
of one of those 6.7 motors in the bargain trader. ?
Yep, those seem like a pretty good deal.
off the top of my head
I'd say that will give a 40 mile at 40 mph and top speed 60 . What I
noticed with the little motor is at a certain point the eff drops off quite
a bit , it might go 80 miles at 30 mphs but when you push a little more
current into the motor it just runs out in heat.
I'll need 60 mph minimum on our freeways, I once had a work beater that
sometimes dropped under 60 on shallow freeway hills, that gets a bit
dangerous in places, if there isn't a semi to duck behind to help discourage
the more aggressive drivers. Got passed on the shoulder a couple times, had
to run there a few times, one guy even tried to bumper-shove me those 5 mph
up to the speed limit.
I could stick to surface streets going to work and around town, but I'd like
to be able to get from here (Vancouver, Wa.) to Portland and back
occasionally, which is around 25 miles round trip, mostly freeway. Does this
sound reasonable?
I'm new to this, so if anyone has any advice, please feel free to advise.
I'll also be sure to visit the OEVA meetings.
John
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon "Sheer" Pullen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: VW fire (long rambling)
> Observations, which I admit are guesses. (I also don't have
nearly the
> experience at post-mortems that some of the more experienced
EVers do)
>
> 1) The fire happened during charging. Likely the initial event
was either
> caused by a poor connection at the charging terminals igniting
hydrogen gas
> from the batteries, or underrated wire coming from the charger
to the
> batteries heating up until it started burning. After that,
there might have
> been a arcing event precipitated by charred or missing
insulation - you
> didn't say if any of the fuses were blown or not.
>
> 2) From the amount of char, one tends to suspect a arc event
took place.
> However, whatever it was, it must have been self-extinguishing,
since the
> entire car didn't end up a crispy critter. Perhaps it only
'flamed' until
> enough of the 0/2 was gone - or did a fusable open?
>
> 3) 'The rear headliner was melted in the left rear'. This
suggests a
> hydrogen fireball. (a arc would have melted the headliner
everywhere, I
> would think)
>
> 4) The more I look at these pictures, the more I envision a H2
fireball that
> started near the charger endpoint. I've often seen poorly
crimped charger
> connections on a smaller scale throw a few sparks.. one thing
that I think
> supports my hypothesis is your report that the battery pack was
fully
> charged when the incident occured. Was this car equipped with a
vent fan?
>
> Just my 2 wh. Maybe some of the other EV fire experiencers can
help with
> some insight of their own.
>
> Maybe we should try and hack a solenoid-operated fire
extinguisher connected
> to a smoke detector ;-) Of course, this wouldn't extinguish a
arc, which is
> the most likely source of damage.
>
> S.
>
> p.s. These EV fires are getting discouraging. While I was
kidding about the
> fire extinguisher, maybe we do need some kind of a arc-breaking
system - 2
> or 3 contactors spread throughout the pack, bridged by 30A
fuses for
> charging? I don't know..
I keep thinking, in the background mode, that rigging a smoke
detector to a relay that would shut down the AC charging power
might be a useful safety feature. I even bought a smoke detector
for the purpose of doing that, change out the speaker and somehow
hook it up to a relay. But, sigh, that ended up on the project
shelf where things get dusty. Haven't had any smoke events
(except that one at the very start of my EV career where I
overheated an AC charger cord connection upstream of a K&W
BC-20). Am not sure that a smoke detector relay setup would've
helped in the VWFireGallery case, though, as it might have been
too late. I think a smoke detector would help more in the case
of a wire or connection getting hot and starting to smoke.
In terms of adding more contactors, that might help, but then
it's more equipment to have to find a place for, and also to
screw up.
There don't seem to be that many EV fire cases. We've got this
case with poor wiring and probably poor maintenance. John
Wayland's Plasma Boy initiation event was an accident and taking
short cuts under pressure and when tired. Others will come to
mind, but hey, this stuff can hurt you, just like most things
with lots of power, which it takes to move a car down the road.
Don't want to cut that power loose by screwing up.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
john kangas writes:
>
> I do have that little voice in my head telling me to go for Optimas and
> Raptor and Warp motor... maybe later. The festivas can easily do better than
> 40 mpg, mine with the stock engine never did worse than 38, even when I
> tried.
I used Optimas for my first pack (20 Optimas in buddy pairs for a 120v pack)
in my Geo Prizm. My car weighed 3100lbs (900lbs of batteries). My commute
at the time was from Portland to Beaverton, about 25 miles on highway 26.
The pack was usually quite flat when I got home, and a few times I had to
pull over to let the pack recover enough to actually get home. The pack
lasted all of about 2200 miles before it dropped in capacity enough that I
couldn't get to work and back.
NOTE: this was my first pack and probably suffered more from that fact than
any other. I didn't have battery heaters and was driving in the winter.
I didn't have my charger setup properly, and the charger couldn't do more
than about 10-15 amps. My controller at the time (Zapi H2 with regen) would
hit the pack with about 55 amps of regen current, even when the batteries
were charged. I had a few mishaps with overcharging. My battery to vehicle
weight ratio was too small (battery weight should be more than 30% of total
vehicle weight for lead-acid batteries).
If you do go with Optimas, size your pack to use no more than 50% capacity
for your commute, get a good, stout charger like the PFC-20 and put battery
regulators and heaters on every battery.
My car currently uses SAFT NiCads and I've been very happy with them. I can
drive about 35 miles on a charge, the pack doesn't degrade in cold weather,
and the car is 340lbs lighter than with the Optimas.
I commute 26 miles round trip on I-5 between Portland to Lake Oswego. During
the morning commute I can easily keep up with the 65-70mph traffic (even up
the hill at Terwilliger Curves), and in the evening I can merge back onto
the freeway on the uphill section from highway 217 and keep up with the
'average' pace. I've been tempted to add four more NiCads to make a 144v
pack, mostly for the extra power.
You can get details on my web page at http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm,
or come to the OEVA meeting next week and see the car in person.
> I'll need 60 mph minimum on our freeways, I once had a work beater that
> sometimes dropped under 60 on shallow freeway hills, that gets a bit
> dangerous in places, if there isn't a semi to duck behind to help discourage
> the more aggressive drivers. Got passed on the shoulder a couple times, had
> to run there a few times, one guy even tried to bumper-shove me those 5 mph
> up to the speed limit.
> I could stick to surface streets going to work and around town, but I'd like
> to be able to get from here (Vancouver, Wa.) to Portland and back
> occasionally, which is around 25 miles round trip, mostly freeway. Does this
> sound reasonable?
You should be able to do this with Optimas, but unless you size your pack
right they won't last long. Again, don't plan on using the full capacity
of your pack for your every-day commute, shoot for no more than 50%.
> I'm new to this, so if anyone has any advice, please feel free to advise.
> I'll also be sure to visit the OEVA meetings.
The next OEVA meeting is January 9th at 7:30, at the World Trade Center on
the corner of SW 1st and Salmon.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin Campbell wrote:
What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most worthy, and
be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs, renewables,
etc.?
I'd think that products, advertising and incentives would be good areas
for directing funds.
- For EV products, there is a major lack so could underwrite some of the
pre-production projects now underway (Tango, Sunrise rebirth, CEV, etc).
This in turn would help along the component manufacturers. I'm thinking
in terms of "real" cars, with say 60 mile minimum range under worst
conditions with idiot-proof battery management, etc. Ideally would have
enough funds to help several projects along and avoid having to pick one
vehicle that would fit "all" needs. For RE, I think there are plenty of
products already on the market.
- Work the political lobby game to get good EV and RE incentives
throughout the US and throughout the globe and/or provide direct funding
via grants that individuals could apply for. I know people here in
Massachusetts that would install PVs (solar electric panels) on their
roof if they could get the same rebates that some on the west coast have
gotten. (And along the way lobby to correct silly incentives where a
small business save money if they get a HummVee.)
- Advertise! Great products don't sell if no one knows about them.
Incentives don't attract anyone if they don't know how to take
advantage. Heck, jump on the PV + EV = national security bandwagon.
A second phase could look into promoting charging infrastructure, etc.
but I'm thinking that a significant quantity of EV's on the road would
apply the needed pressure and move that process along.
My hypothetical two cents,
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sharkey wrote:
> Jim; your message about "The Mail Archive" got garbled by Yahoo,
> apperantly because of an "@" sign in the address.
> Any way to communicate the URL without it getting "sanitized"?
Humph. Go to http://www.mail-archive.com/lists.html#e
and then click on the "ev" link. You will end up at the link I tried to
send last time.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You will destroy your Evercels with a trickle charge. The will form
dendrites that puncture the separators and short the cells.
/Glenn Crosby/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: Evercel cycle 102 report chart
> If I run a test that says that this battery needs something like 0.5 amps
of
> trickle to keep it up, Should that be generalized to all evercels need 0.5
> amps?
>
> It is really hard to make valid generalizations based on tests with one
> corpse.
>
> If I had a live one (that had not puked out all that electrolyte) the
tests
> would be more valid.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Evercel cycle 102 report chart
>
>
> > At 10:40 PM 12/30/2002 -0800, Joe Smalley wrote:
> > >Another thing I noticed is that if the battery sits for a while between
> > >cycles, the capacity is lower. I don't know if this is a thermal issue
or
> a
> > >self discharge issue.
> >
> > So, I wonder if a float charge would be appropriate for Evercels?
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Jan 2003 at 14:09, Michael Hurley wrote:
> Don't know if this will help for parts sourcing or whatever, but the
> Festiva (certainly the first generation ones, and I believe all of
> them) was a re-branded Mazda 121.
I don't know what the exact relationship is, but the Festiva which was sold
in the US appears to be 100% identical to a Kia Pride. I'm fairly sure that
Kia built the US model for Ford.
The Pride was still available new in Korea until about 2001. For quite a
while the 2-door hatchback model sold here was Kia's entry-level vehicle;
the 1.3 litre carbureted version sold for something just over $4,000, IIRC.
Although Korea has unfortunately caught SUV disease from the US, I still see
a lot of Prides over there. A friend of mine owns a 4-door sedan version.
Halfway round the world is a long way to go to get parts, though ...
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switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The connector on the front of the meter is optical. It is an industry
standard now. The L&G software would probably work to read the Siemens as
well, but won't help a whole lot without the optical connector.
Unfortunately, these are fairly expensive (at least they were a few years
ago.)
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: TOU Meter Online
> Well we finally got the TOU meter last Friday...ordered on November 12.
>
> Seems the delay was caused by a long chain of factors, including the "one
> guy" at Edison who does all the EV meters was on vacation, and not only
did
> most of the Edison people I talked to not know what I was talking about,
> they didn't even know who to ask to find out anything either.
>
> Like at all huge organizations, inter-departmental communication at Edison
> seems to be a bad thing...and I don't know why.
>
> And you know how it is when you ask someone something they don't know and
> their subsequent machinations, intended to obscure the fact that they
don't
> know, instead only cement your knowledge of that fact? Well, to her
credit,
> our planning lady offered on her first trip out that she had never even
seen
> a TOU meter for EV charging.
>
> After weeks of delay I finally snapped, faxing a letter to the VP whose
name
> is on the bottom of all the Edison docs concerning their EV program,
> detailing my efforts to date. That morning I got a call from Ed Kjaer
> (care), head of EV Development at Edison. It took me five weeks but, man
oh
> man, I finally had THE answer man.
>
> Ed dispensed quick answers to ALL my questions, and concluded our
> conversation by saying, "We're going to get you taken care of".
>
> And he did.
>
> I....I think I love you, Ed.
>
> And the remaining cast:
>
> Norma Chacon/Edison Planning- Nice lady and well spoken of by her peers;
but
> I sensed a little resentment. Could be because I called her daily for five
> weeks?
>
> Brian Cisco/Edison EV Development- He's one of the little brainiacs at the
> (apparently) top secret EV Skunkworks located at a remote desert location
> somewhere east of the city. He seemed pleased to be contacted by the
outside
> world and even allowed me to invite myself to go check out their EV
> Technology Center. (Wonder if a few quick charges might wake up my sagging
> Sonnenscheins somewhat?)
>
> Beatrice/Clean Fuel- She put up with dozens of my calls with much grace
and
> aplomb. Nice people there, and I'm sure they'll just move into AVCONs when
> SPIs are phased out- but can you think of a more unnecessary middle-man?
How
> about on-board chargers being the standard? How about NEMA 14-50s for all?
> Power to conductive charging! Every man a king!
>
> Maynard- God bless him. He's the one heaven sent with my fancy Siemens
Model
> AXRS-4 TOU meter. Of course he did pull the house meter and start to
replace
> it with the TOU. I got him to make a quick call to verify that he was to
> leave us with two meters.
> That's right, the new meter goes in that new socket there...
> He had a really cool "ToughCase" laptop with a reader that plugged onto
the
> front of the meter. I don't know if it's a magnetic or optical link, but
it
> also puts out a radio signal that they can read from the truck out in the
> street.
> He seemed really excited about the whole EV thing as he had never planted
a
> TOU Meter for EV Charging before. That's when I learned that the "one guy"
> who sets all the EV meters was on vacation. Even offered to get me the
> software for the Landis & Gyr watt/hour meter in the EVcort when he
noticed
> it had the same kind of reader as our new TOU.
>
> HNY!
>
> J. Marvin Campbell
> Culver City, CA
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NOTE: this was my first pack and probably suffered more from that fact than
any other.
I'll probably end up using T105's or something similar for this reason, I've
read the dire predictions concerning the fate of first battery packs. And
the T105's sound like they're fairly stout.
This will be my trial run at electric commuting, so it makes sense to me to
keep it reliable, inexpensive, and simple to work with. Once I have the
experience with electric transportation, then I'll start optimizing for my
own preferences.
You can get details on my web page at
http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm,
or come to the OEVA meeting next week and see the car in person.
I'll see you there!
John
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking along the same line as chuck, my idea was to use a smoke
detector with a light that lights the hallway when it go's off, and tap into
the light bulb socket with a relay to set off the car alarm lights and horn,
and like Chuck it's another project that never got finished, the car alarm
is sitting in the box in the garage and the smoke alarm got installed in the
house hallway when the battery in the old one went dead. But then again do I
really need it? my gas car doesn't have a smoke alarm, and if the wiring for
the charger is upgraded to the proper size the chances of a fire go's down
dramatically.
From: "Chuck Hursch"
>
> I keep thinking, in the background mode, that rigging a smoke
> detector to a relay that would shut down the AC charging power
> might be a useful safety feature. I even bought a smoke detector
> for the purpose of doing that, change out the speaker and somehow
> hook it up to a relay. But, sigh, that ended up on the project
> shelf where things get dusty. Haven't had any smoke events
> (except that one at the very start of my EV career where I
> overheated an AC charger cord connection upstream of a K&W
> BC-20). Am not sure that a smoke detector relay setup would've
> helped in the VWFireGallery case, though, as it might have been
> too late. I think a smoke detector would help more in the case
> of a wire or connection getting hot and starting to smoke.
>
> In terms of adding more contactors, that might help, but then
> it's more equipment to have to find a place for, and also to
> screw up.
>
> There don't seem to be that many EV fire cases. We've got this
> case with poor wiring and probably poor maintenance. John
> Wayland's Plasma Boy initiation event was an accident and taking
> short cuts under pressure and when tired. Others will come to
> mind, but hey, this stuff can hurt you, just like most things
> with lots of power, which it takes to move a car down the road.
> Don't want to cut that power loose by screwing up.
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin,
Could you define what you mean by 'branding the public with EVs,
renewables,etc.?'
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:59 PM
Subject: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
> Here's a hypothetical for you-
>
> Let's say you had a friend who had just acquired a say in how one of the
> largest philanthropical organizations in the world directs their funding
> efforts.
>
> This friend is also very interested in promoting our cause, i.e., BEVs (of
> course), renewables, etc.
>
> If you were to be a consultant regarding these issues to this person, how
> would you advise they spend their money in order to best advance our
cause?
>
> What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most worthy,
and
> be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs, renewables,
> etc.?
>
> Just wondering...
>
> J. Marvin Campbell
> Culver City, CA
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't vote for Bush or Cheney in 2004 :-)
Marvin Campbell wrote:
Here's a hypothetical for you-
Let's say you had a friend who had just acquired a say in how one of the
largest philanthropical organizations in the world directs their funding
efforts.
This friend is also very interested in promoting our cause, i.e., BEVs (of
course), renewables, etc.
If you were to be a consultant regarding these issues to this person, how
would you advise they spend their money in order to best advance our cause?
What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most worthy, and
be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs, renewables,
etc.?
Just wondering...
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Best way would be to manufacture a product and sell it at cost so the
most people who are really interested and can't afford to pay the price,
with 20 % profit, might be able to afford a price at cost and thereby get
into it.
It all boils down to the bottom line: those people with money don't seem
to care and those people that care don't seem to have the money.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:23:03 -0500 "Cliff Rassweiler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Marvin,
>
> Could you define what you mean by 'branding the public with EVs,
> renewables,etc.?'
>
> Cliff
>
> www.ProEV.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:59 PM
> Subject: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
>
>
> > Here's a hypothetical for you-
> >
> > Let's say you had a friend who had just acquired a say in how one
> of the
> > largest philanthropical organizations in the world directs their
> funding
> > efforts.
> >
> > This friend is also very interested in promoting our cause, i.e.,
> BEVs (of
> > course), renewables, etc.
> >
> > If you were to be a consultant regarding these issues to this
> person, how
> > would you advise they spend their money in order to best advance
> our
> cause?
> >
> > What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most
> worthy,
> and
> > be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs,
> renewables,
> > etc.?
> >
> > Just wondering...
> >
> > J. Marvin Campbell
> > Culver City, CA
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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You know voting has nothing to do with winning :-)
hg
PS: EV-stuff. May be a half a dozen posties in selected cities can be
loaned EVs for high visibility. Import Indian Revas and that should get
the American competitive spirit up.
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> Don't vote for Bush or Cheney in 2004 :-)
>
> Marvin Campbell wrote:
>
> >Here's a hypothetical for you-
> >
> >Let's say you had a friend who had just acquired a say in how one of the
> >largest philanthropical organizations in the world directs their funding
> >efforts.
> >
> >This friend is also very interested in promoting our cause, i.e., BEVs (of
> >course), renewables, etc.
> >
> >If you were to be a consultant regarding these issues to this person, how
> >would you advise they spend their money in order to best advance our cause?
> >
> >What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most worthy, and
> >be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs, renewables,
> >etc.?
> >
> >Just wondering...
> >
> >J. Marvin Campbell
> >Culver City, CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(JOB: Traveling Military EV Sales)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
US-VA-Northern-Military Sales Manager
Military Sales Manager
TidalForce Light Electric Vehicles
Summary:
TidalForce, the Light Electric Vehicle Division of WaveCrest
Labs, is bringing the first product to market that uses the
revolutionary WaveCrest Adaptive Motor. Join the team that
will open a new chapter for transportation as the PC did for
information. This is an opportunity for a self-motivated
individual to join a growing company with a technological
advantage. This job is best suited for the individual that
has a competitive spirit, positive attitude, enthusiasm, and
commitment.
You will be demonstrating and selling TidalForce light
electric vehicles to military agencies.
Qualifications:
�Ability to open new accounts through in person contact and
test-ride demonstrations.
� Military experience preferred.
� Strong presentation and organizational skills.
� Excellent PC application skills and knowledge.
�Ability to work independently and provide regular field
reports.
�Must have strong knowledge of military sales process, GSA
schedules and pricing.
�Bachelors degree and 6+ years of experience required, 4 of
which must be in government sales, proposal and quote
writing.
Travel estimated at 30-50%.
WaveCrest Labs Benefits:
TidalForce offers a competitive compensation package
including: salary, commissions, travel allowance, medical
and dental benefits, and 401(k). TidalForce is growing fast
and will have many opportunities for professional
advancement.
Additional Information
Position Type: Full Time, Employee
Contact Information
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wavecrest Lab, LLC
45600 Terminal Drive
Dulles VA 20166
-
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EVLN(Ford Will Not "Think" - but Kamkorp will)-VERY LONG
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}[Our thanks to murdoch]
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/business/article.jhtml?articleID=458983
Think sold and saved
The Norwegian-built electric car Think, and associated jobs
in Aurskog, now appear to be rescued. On Thursday it became
clear that the Swiss firm Kamkorp Microelectronics has
bought Think Nordic from owner Ford Motor Company.
In a letter to Minister of Trade and Industry Ansgar
Gabrielsen, Ford said that the new owners will continue the
development and production of the battery-driven electric
cars, and take over the brand names "THINK" and "City".
The sale should not only secure jobs in Aurskog, but also
years of investment and technological research.
(Aftenposten English Web Desk/NTB)
===
AP World Politics
Ford to sell Norwegian electric car subsidiary
Thu Dec 19,11:42 AM ET
By DOUG MELLGREN, Associated Press Writer
OSLO, Norway - The tiny electric car company Think Nordic
announced its apparent rescue Thursday after Ford Motor Co.
agreed to sell it to Kamkorp Microelectronics.
In late August, Ford announced it would stop selling
electric cars in the United States, and was prepared to
withdraw from the Think Nordic plant that makes the Think
City. Ford said the market for electric cars was too small.
The Dearborn, Michigan-based automaker said it plans to
focus on other technologies for cleaner-running cars and
trucks, including hydrogen fuel cells and the gas-electric
hybrid vehicles.
Since then Think and Ford have been seeking a buyer rather
than shutting down the operation.
Think Managing Director Ingemar Bjoerholt told The
Associated Press that Ford and Kamkorp had signed a binding
letter of intent and planned to complete the transaction in
January. He said they had agree not to disclose a price.
The terms of the deal were not disclosed.
"It is good news," said Bjoerholt. "The most important thing
is maintaining the technology and production that we have
developed."
The Norwegian government helped fund the original
development of the Think two-seater electronic cars before
Ford acquired it in 1999. Think has about 100 employees, and
has produced more than 1,000 of the cars.
The company had just finished developing a new model when
Ford decided to pull the plug on electric cars. Bjoerholt
said it wasn't clear when full production would start.
According to the Norwegian news agency NTB, in a letter to
Norway's Minister of Industry, Ford said the new owner
planned to continue the development and production of
electric cars, and will retain the rights to the Think and
City names.
Ingvar Sviggum, a Norwegian who is a vice president of Ford
Europe, refused to disclose the sales price, but confirmed
that it was low.
"Ford, of course, must have made the basis extremely
favorable so that Think Nordic could continue to be a
success in the future," he said.
According to Bjoerholt, Kampkorp's products include
Frazer-Nash electric vehicles. He said Kamkorp
Microelectronic was registered in Switzerland, while its
parent company Kamkorp Ltd. was based in Britain.
On the Net: http://www.thinkmobility.com/homeUK.asp
(dm-mpm)
===
Ford to Sell Electric Car Subsidiary
Thu Dec 19, 1:06 PM ET
By DOUG MELLGREN, Associated Press Writer
OSLO, Norway - Ford Motor Co. has agreed to sell the
electric car company Think Nordic to electric vehicle maker
Kamkorp Microelectronics in a deal that could keep the small
Norwegian operation going. Terms were not disclosed.
Think Nordic managing director Ingemar Bjoerholt said
Thursday that Ford and Kamkorp had signed a binding letter
of intent and planned to complete the transaction in
January.
He said they had agreed not to disclose a price.
"It is good news," said Bjoerholt. "The most important thing
is maintaining the technology and production that we have
developed."
He said Kamkorp's products include Frazer-Nash electric
vehicles. He said Kamkorp Microelectronics was registered in
Switzerland, while its parent company Kamkorp Ltd. was based
in Britain.
In late August, Ford announced it would stop selling
electric cars in the United States, and was prepared to
withdraw from the Think Nordic plant that makes the Think
City, a two-seat car that is powered by electricity rather
than gasoline.
Ford, which is based in Dearborn, Mich., said the market for
electric cars was too small and it wanted to focus on other
technologies for cleaner-running cars and trucks, including
hydrogen fuel cells and the gas-electric hybrid vehicles.
Since then Think and Ford have been seeking a buyer rather
than shutting down the operation.
Ingvar Sviggum, a Norwegian who is a vice president of Ford
Europe, refused to disclose the sales price, but confirmed
that it was low.
"Ford, of course, must have made the basis extremely
favorable so that Think Nordic could continue to be a
success in the future," he said.
The Norwegian government helped fund the original
development of the Think two-seater electronic cars before
Ford acquired it in 1999. Think has about 100 employees, and
has produced more than 1,000 of the cars.
The company had just finished developing a new model when
Ford decided to pull the plug on electric cars. Bjoerholt
said it wasn't clear when full production would start.
According to the Norwegian news agency NTB, Ford said in a
letter to Norway's Minister of Industry that the new owner
planned to continue the development and production of
electric cars, and will retain the rights to the Think and
City names.
On the Net: http://www.thinkmobility.com/homeUK.asp
===
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002/12/20/151869.html?NEWS
Ford Will Not "Think" - Bye Bye Electric Car
Oslo, Norway December 19, 2002; John Griffiths writing for
FT reported that Ford plans to sell its Think Nordic
electric car unit to Kamkorp, a Singapore-based group with
global electronic, engineering and property interests.
The world's second-largest carmaker has invested more than
$100m in the Norway-based business.
However, like many of its rivals, the Detroit -based company
is dropping a decades-long attempt to develop viable
battery- powered vehicles that could rival petrol or diesel
cars.
Ford is to concentrate instead - like virtually all of its
rivals - on the development of hydrogen fuel cells as the
propulsion unit for automobiles of the future.
It said in August that it would make no more investments in
Think Nordic, which was established with the backing of the
Norwegian government.
No financial details of the planned disposal were revealed
but the sale is expected to be com- pleted next month,
following the signing yesterday of a binding letter of
intent.
Think Nordic's plant near Oslo has the capacity to make
4,000 cars a year but only about 1,000 have been sold.
The sale price of Think Nordic is believed to be much lower
than the $70m that Ford originally paid for the company
nearly four years ago.
However, the final abandonment of Ford 's costly research
programmes to develop environmentally "clean"
battery-powered cars should make at least a small
contribution to reducing the large losses sustained.
Ford is in the throes of a global restructuring after seeing
its fortunes plunge from a record profit of $7.2bn three
years ago to a $5.45bn loss last year.
Kamkorp, whose European headquarters are in the UK, has a
significant stake in electric vehicles and is expected to
continue development and production at Think Nordic, which
had a new vehicle almost ready for production when Ford
announced it was pulling the plug. More than 100 workers
have been laid off since.
Kamkorp owns Frazer-Nash of the UK, which has electric car
body building capabilities, and Electrosource, based in San
Marcos, Texas, which produces advanced lightweight lithium
batteries. It supplied some vehicles for the 2000 Sydney
Olympic Games.
"The most important thing is maintaining the technology and
production that we have developed," Think Nordic's managing
director, Ingemar Bjoerholt, said last night.
Copyright � 1996-2002 The Auto Channel.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Did Segway ply CA gov to create & pass SB1918 ?)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
December 25, 2002 GREEN GARAGE
Big-city ambitions for little electric cars
Auto Club: New Rules of the Road for 2003; Fines Doubled in
Certain Alameda, Ventura, Santa Barbara County School Zones
LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 30, 2002--Riders of
skateboards and non-motorized scooters will have to wear
helmets in the New Year, while motorists in some counties
may find themselves doubly fined for school zone traffic
violations, according to the Automobile Club of Southern
California.
"Many of the new laws focus on children," said Alice Bisno,
the Auto Club's vice president for legislative and
regulatory affairs. "Legislators want to ensure that
motorists watch out for children."
The following are among the new laws taking effect Jan. 1,
unless otherwise noted:
[...]
-- Electric Personal Assistance Mobility Devices. SB1918,
effective from March 1, 2003, through Jan. 1, 2008, gives
an "electric personal assistive mobility device" (a type
of motorized scooter) the same rights and privileges as a
pedestrian, authorizing the device's use on sidewalks and
other places a pedestrian may travel. An EPAMD is a
self-balancing, two-wheeled device designed to transport
one person at a maximum speed of 12.5 miles per hour. It
must be equipped with front, rear and side reflectors; a
sound-emitting mechanism; and a brake. A city or county
may regulate the time, place and manner of operation of
these devices -- or may ban them entirely. A number of
safety advocates, including the Auto Club, expressed
concern about allowing these devices to share sidewalks
with much slower-moving pedestrians and pushed for the
limits in the bill.
The Automobile Club of Southern California, the largest AAA
affiliate, has been serving members since 1900. Today, Auto
Club members benefit by the organization's roadside
assistance service, financial products, travel agency and
trip planning services, highway and transportation safety
programs, insurance products and services, automotive
pricing, and buying and financing programs.
Information about these products and services is available
on the Auto Club's Web site at www.aaa-calif.com.
CONTACT: Automobile Club of Southern California, Costa Mesa
Carol Thorp, Jeff Spring or Elaine Beno, 714/885-2333
SOURCE: Automobile Club of Southern California 12/30/2002
05:00 EASTERN
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I did some more searching with Google... what would be nice is a
transmitter on the back of the e-meter and something like like the
"Point Receiver II" which is a wireless receiver that fits right on the
Palm (running EV Dash)
http://www.rdsdistributing.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?Wireless
This should eliminate the isolation issue as the transmitter would be
'hot' along with the e-meter and battery pack, but safely sealed up in a
protected box somewhere. However, I can't find a straight rs-232
transmitter to match ...
So using separate transceivers, the DPC-64-RS232 for $180 looks good at
http://www.abacom-tech.com/transceivers.htm
or maybe the AMS-900PA/232 for $120 at
http://www.athenamicrosystems.com/products.htm
but they don't provide any details.
Two of these and a $35 palm brings the project to about $400... half of
the first cut, so getting better.
Seth Murray wrote:
> I got a Palm III on ebay for $35 - EV Dash rules!
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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EVLN(TH!NK Cabrio - Convertible City EV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_index.php?cp=1&page=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoexpress.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fevo_news_story.php%3Fid%3D32602&domain=evo
Thursday 19th December 2002
It's Summer, TH!NK Cabrio
These are the amazing new pictures of a roadster version of
the quirky Ford TH!NK electric car - proving that the axed
project isn't dead yet.
Blue oval bosses pulled the plug on the motor in September -
as we re-vealed in Issue 721 - but engineers in Norway have
joined forces with a local telecoms company, Telenor, as
part of a bid to attract new investors. This car, which
features the firm's hi-tech communications equipment, is the
result - and not only has it been turned into an open-top,
but it's got four seats as well.
"Telenor approached us and asked if we could come up with a
car for them to display this equipment," said TH!NK
spokeswoman Anne S�nsteby. "We have dreamed about making
this vehicle for the past two years."
The team took one of the standard plastic-panelled models
and chopped off the roof to convert it. Sadly, though, the
car - called the TH!NK Open - isn't likely to roll off a
production line just yet. "The roadster could make us even
more attractive to a new investor," said S�nsteby, adding
that if a cash injection was secured, construction of a
convertible would be discussed.
The two additional seats in the rear are designed only for
children. They get tiny TV screens built into the back of
the front seat headrests, although these are not fitted to
the car in our pictures. With the same battery system as
found in the regular car, the power supply can be charged up
using a domestic 240-volt socket. The technology in the Open
includes futuristic route-planning hardware and mobile
communications systems.
Telenor spokeswoman Jeanne Terj-esen added that it could be
five years before the gadgets go on sale. "For us, it's very
important to research future services so that we can find
out what people want," she said. "The car will be part of
our laboratory work."
Words/Pictures: Andrew Draper
===
http://evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=454
Spy Photos: Th!nk city Convertible
One of a set of photos sent to EV World of Th!nk city EV as
a convertible. The fate of the program still is unknown at
this time. By EV World.Com
Electronically 'smuggled' out of Norway, these photos show a
Th!nk city convertible. November 24,2002
What fun it would have been. Imagine cruising quietly down
your favorite Florida beach beneath a warm summer moon in a
"rag-top" electric Th!nk city. You'd hear only the gentle
slap of waves against the shore and the distant throb of
Cuban music from a shoreline restaurant.
Th!nk Convertible
While the fate of the Th!nk city electric program still
hangs by the thinnest of threads -- at least one bidder's
proposal has been turned down, we're told -- the engineers
in Th!nk Nordic are still tinkering with the car. The most
recent effort appears to be a convertible version of the
battery electric car, including the installation of an small
pair of jump seats in cargo area behind the two front
seats.
The individual who provided us with the photos asked to
remain anonymous, but I can say that it isn't anyone who was
actively bidding to take-over the Th!nk program.
What the fate of the program will be is pretty much up to
Bill Ford, Jr. Many EV World readers have expressed their
interest in owning one and their disappointment with Ford's
decision to cancel the program. Unfortunately, a series of
bad management decisions by Ford Motor Company, saw it go
from a $25 billion cash surplus in the late 1990's to more
than $5 billion in losses last year.
But in our view, the $23 million the company spent on Th!nk
and the $100 million it invested to improve the car, wasn't
one of them. It was visionary and the right thing to do.
Shutting it down may be a financial necessity in the
short-term, as the company restructures and focuses on fuel
cells. But Raffaello Locatelli, the director of Italy's
Oxygen S.p.A., recently pointed out, electricity is much
easier to find on the street than hydrogen, and this is
likely to remain that way for decades to come.
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