EV Digest 2508
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EVLN(EVs get free ride on Golden Gate Bridge)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by Adam Kuehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Tropica #16 has it's plates - LONG
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: VW fire (long rambling)
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: VW fire (long rambling)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tropica #16 has it's plates - LONG
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) News from Evercel
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: News from Evercel
by "Humphrey, Timothy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: News from Evercel
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: VW fire (long rambling) - and Hydrogen detection meters
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: News from Evercel
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) (12) 5SHPs need to find a good home
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) 120V kwh meter
by Randy Holmquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 120V kwh meter
by Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: (12) 5SHPs need to find a good home
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by harsha godavari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: VW fire (long rambling)
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Good news. Is this during all hours or just commute hours? Lawrence
Rhodes.......San Francisco....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 9:36 PM
Subject: EVLN(EVs get free ride on Golden Gate Bridge)
> EVLN(EVs get free ride on Golden Gate Bridge)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4851233.htm
> Posted on Tue, Dec. 31, 2002 Clean Air Vehicles get free
> ride on Golden Gate By the Mercury News
>
> Drivers who own Clean Air Vehicles will get an added bonus
> in the new year -- a free commute across the Golden Gate
> Bridge.
>
> Starting today, cars that are fully electric or use natural
> gas will avoid the toll of $5 cash or $4 with FasTrak to
> cross the Golden Gate Bridge. The savings could add up to
> $1,000 a year for frequent bridge commuters.
>
> Currently only motorcycles and carpoolers can take advantage
> of toll-free passage on the bridge.
>
> The Clean Air Vehicle program began in 1999 to provide
> vehicles with low tailpipe and evaporative emission access
> to carpool lanes when only one driver is in the car. The
> following year a program was adopted granting toll-free
> passage to Clean Air Vehicles during commute hours on all
> state-owned toll bridges.
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
Basic flaw I see: Where is the driver in this study?
Actually, right here:
"A tentative conclusion is that although driver age likely affects
the high risk of sports cars, it is not responsible for the most
important results of this study. Regarding Conclusions 1 and 2, above
[concerning the relative risks of average and mid-size, and compact
and sub-compact, cars vs. SUVs], the high risks of some SUVs are not
a result of driver age; there is no pattern of driver age among
popular car models that would explain the low risk of several of
those models."
Although this is a tentative conclusion, and is not supported by
actual data presented within the study, the authors were at least
cognizant of the problem and made some effort to address it. While I
agree that more work is needed in order to draw the sweeping
conclusions proffered by the study, the authors certainly did not
ignore the issue of driver type.
Likewise, minivans are safe because the "soccer moms" drive them.
When is the last time you've seen a teenager voluntarily driving a
minivan?
And the report authors may agree with you. To again quote from the study:
"Regarding Conclusion 3 [regarding minivan safety], minivans may well
be intrinsically less safe than shown in Figure 2, given that they
tend not to be driven by the riskiest drivers, young males. And
regarding Conclusion 4 [regarding truck safety], with the exception
of one model, the high risk of pickup trucks is not strongly
associated with high-risk drivers, although pickups tend as a group,
like subcompact and compact cars, to be driven somewhat more by young
males."
I would be careful interpreting this study as an aid to choosing the
safest car to buy. As a statistical tool, I would take it to mean I'd
rather be in the left lane between an Audi and Mercedes than the
right lane between an old battered truck and speeding Mustang.
Actually, the study has roughly the same validity whether you are
choosing the car you are driving, or are choosing the car driven by
the other guy. The flaws apply with equal weight to both groups,
since the main point of the study was to combine the net effects of
both. While I agree that, by itself, this study does not tell you
definitively whether or not SUVs are inherently more dangerous than
other vehicles, it does provide some useful data to consider, and is
equally valid - to whatever extent - for both vehicles.
--
-Adam Kuehn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you double the voltage by putting in 12v batteries you will quadruple the
horsepower. What are you planning for controller and charger. You have the
potential for some awesome acceleration and quick charging because of the
small pack size. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: Tropica #16 has it's plates - LONG
> Steve,
>
> If you ever get back to see that Tropic again, I'd be intersted in knowing
the VIN #. I'm trying to locate the few cars that were built. I'm not sure
what batteries I'll put in but I'm leaning toward US225s. I've got the
battery watering system repaired and now have the original quick
disconnects, flow indicator and regulator. What I don't have, yet, is time
using it to know it will, or won't work. I'll have that in the spring one
way or another. I have learned that you don't try and water the batteries
without the pressure regulator. When I first got the car, I blew off 3 caps!
Always learning something
> new. Last night we had a New Years party and one of the dads brought Silly
String for the kids. Did you know that Silly String will stain an ABS body,
like the Tropica for example? I had these nice purple stripes on my white
car. Fortunatly they were easy to buff out.
>
> Steve
>
> In a message dated 1/1/2003 1:53:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >
> >
> > I am surprised at how long you have gone with your old Battery pack . I
> > think you are right on in getting to know the car ect with an old pack .
> > There is a Tropical at the local collage in my town . I got to see it a
few
> > months ago ( was going to write about it but didn't ) I had seen it in
a
> > book , but seeing it live was quite an experience. A beautiful car.
They
> > were having trouble with there charger also . Are you planning on using
6v
> > golf cart bats or something sealed . watering looks like a problem.
> > enjoy your post
> > Steve Clunn
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> Be careful when ya run yur hipower cables! Make sure they are
> separated from each other, as Bob Batson sez; run them down
> each side of the car, til they hafta come together.
But... hasn't it often been said that the cables need to be run together
in order to reduce radio interference?
High power transmission cables are run together all the time - I assume
it is more a matter of making sure that the right insulation is used and
putting the cables in a conduit to provide mechanical protection, sizing
the conduit so the cables pull easily without damage and putting
bushings on the ends and so on.
(and interestingly the truck I acquired was converted with a Batson kit
& video but the wires do run together under the floor of the cab)
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: VW fire (long rambling)
> Bob Rice wrote:
> > Be careful when ya run yur hipower cables! Make sure they are
> > separated from each other, as Bob Batson sez; run them down
> > each side of the car, til they hafta come together.
>
> But... hasn't it often been said that the cables need to be run together
> in order to reduce radio interference?
>
Hi Jim;
Yeah! Yur right, sorta gave up on AM Radio Loooong ago, FM duz much
better, but I run Cassete tapes for tunes, anyhow. Yes a AM station,
Newzradio 88 in NYC is nice, but nothing but hash when moving. Maybe in a
steel conduit he;lps with RF.?
> High power transmission cables are run together all the time - I assume
> it is more a matter of making sure that the right insulation is used and
> putting the cables in a conduit to provide mechanical protection, sizing
> the conduit so the cables pull easily without damage and putting
> bushings on the ends and so on.
> That makes sense, anyhow, although I ran mine inside the shifter tube or
area in the Rabbit that LOOKS like a driveshaft clearance area on a rwd
car.Clamped them up with marine type, Boat US, plastic clamps gust big
enough to hold the welding cable. No problems, so far.
> (and interestingly the truck I acquired was converted with a Batson kit
> & video but the wires do run together under the floor of the cab)
> Change of plans??
Bob
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S-10
> 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know what it would take to implement Hydrogen sensors that
would respond to high concentrations but below "explosive" levels?
- GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the quotes from the study, glad to see the researchers
considered drivers (as should readers!). More below:
--- Adam Kuehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, the study has roughly the same validity whether you are
> choosing the car you are driving, or are choosing the car driven by
>
> the other guy. The flaws apply with equal weight to both groups,
> since the main point of the study was to combine the net effects of
>
> both. While I agree that, by itself, this study does not tell you
> definitively whether or not SUVs are inherently more dangerous than
>
> other vehicles, it does provide some useful data to consider, and
> is
> equally valid - to whatever extent - for both vehicles.
I differ a bit here. There are two basic safety issues, the safety of
the car, and the safety of the driver. You, as the driver, are a
constant across any vehicle you might choose. Unless you become a
Jekyll and Hyde as you switch car types, you'll be just as safe a
driver in one car as another -- so you'll want to pick the safest
type of car. It could be for you (let's say for sake of argument a 40
year old with a perfect driving record) a Camaro would be much safer
than a Sentra -- heavier, stops faster, harder to roll, more crush
space. In this case it doesn't matter that a disproportionate number
of Camaro drivers are crazy young males that street race.
For the other cars, the statistics take into account many things,
including driver demographics. Avoiding driving around sports cars,
as a group, is a behavior you could argue is validated by the
statistics. It doesn't matter to you whether the cars or drivers are
inherently more dangerous, the statistics reflect the car plus driver
combo.
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, put a carbon Monoxide detector in the car near the charging batteries. I
don't recall why, but CO detectors will also detect presence of hydrogen. You
might have to tweek the sensitivity/placement some to make it work tho.
James
Quoting George Tylinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Does anyone know what it would take to implement Hydrogen sensors that
> would respond to high concentrations but below "explosive" levels?
>
> - GT
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I differ a bit here. There are two basic safety issues, the safety of
> the car, and the safety of the driver. You, as the driver, are a
> constant across any vehicle you might choose. Unless you become a
> Jekyll and Hyde as you switch car types, you'll be just as safe a
> driver in one car as another
But most of us ARE Jekyll / Hyde types. I currently drive a Volvo station
wagon, not because I'm a safety nut but because when my last car died this was
what was available to me at a price I could pay. I drive it very
conservatively.
But when I drive my wife's ford Probe, I tend to be a bit more lead footed and
agressive. I think it is because I *KNOW* the station wagon can't "hot rod" so
I don't bother to try, but I also *KNOW* that the Probe can.
I don't think I am too atypical a driver.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
> Basic flaw I see: Where is the driver in this study?
Dead! It only included fatal accidents.
Driver age, driving ability, vehicle handling, road conditions, etc.
were not covered. They weren't the purpose of this study. The goal of
this study was to see what effect vehicle type had in the relative
number of fatalities.
> Insurance companies have found a far stronger correlation between
> the age of the driver and safety than the type of car.
Certainly. There are lots of factors. Age of the driver and basic design
of the car are two of them. Type of vehicle is another.
> Of course large European cars are going to be safer -- generally only
> adults maybe 30+ years old can afford them.
I don't see your point. They didn't compare number of accidents per
million miles; they compared fatalities per million miles. You could
easily have a situation where a car has a very low accident rate
(because of the type of people who drive it), but a very high fatality
rate (because the car's construction tends to make accidents fatal).
> Likewise, minivans are safe because the "soccer moms" drive them.
> When is the last time you've seen a teenager voluntarily driving a
> minivan?
I think you are listening to salesman's hype. "You don't want a minivan;
only soccer moms drive them!"
I'm not a soccer mom, yet I've owned lots of minivan. I bought my first
one as a teenager. I sold my last minivan to a teenager. Most of the
people I know who have minivans do not fit the "soccer mom" stereotype.
This study just says that you have much less chance of being killed in a
minivan than any other type of car except large luxury cars.
> This is a thread on the sports car lists -- sports cars often crash
> test very well, but do poorly in the "insurance sense" because they
> get driven faster by a demographic that is often younger and
> childless.
This is completely consistent. You could easily have a very safe car
that is involved in a large number of (non-fatal) crashes, just because
of the type of driver and the way it is driven. Insurance companies care
about *both* fatal accidents, and the ones that only involve property
damage. They have to pay in both cases, and their rates reflect it.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> If you double the voltage by putting in 12v batteries you will
> quadruple the horsepower.
It doesn't work quite like that.
If you double the voltage by putting in twice as many of the same type
battery, then you have twice the voltage at the same current (available
from the batteries). This is double the power. If the motors and
controllers could stand the doubled voltage (they can't), you'd have 2x
the horsepower, not 4x. But practically speaking, there's no room or
weight carrying capacity for double the batteries.
If you double the voltage by using batteries of the same type but with
1/2 the amphour capacity, then pack size and weight remain the same --
but the maximum power the batteries can deliver also remains the same.
If you double the voltage, and ALSO change battery type (for example,
from flooded golf cart batteries to Optima or Hawker AGMs), then you
might be able to double the peak current you can draw from them. Double
the voltage and double the current would give you 4x the power. But, the
motors and controllers would have to be changed as well. The Tropica's
motor size limitations and direct drive setup would make this difficult.
The Tropica is really an economy car disguised to look like a sports
car. The most straightforward solution would be to replace the 6v
floodeds with 6v sealed batteries. This will leave performance and range
basically the same, but eliminate the maintenance headaches. Motors and
controllers can stay the same, but you'd have to add a better charger,
and some form of battery regulators or balancers.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From Evercel:
>Our office was closed several days durings the holidays ----- so my
>apologies for our late responses.
>The update as of Jan 2
>The MB-50 and MB-80 batteries are still going thru the final cycle life
>testing at our factory in Xiamen China. That will be completed by the last
>week in March at the earliest at this point.Everything thus far has been
>positive -----
I'd guess that "end of March" means more like "June".
Well, back to figuring out alternate battery schemes....
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heh heh, I know what you mean, hard to resist exercising the ponies
once in a while, when there are enough of them to make it fun. <On
topic alert!> This is an important "smile" factor for me in my
conversion.
I generally drive my sports cars slower -- I'm more afraid of getting
a ticket in a red, loud sports car than the family-mobile.
Another strange phenomenon: Everybody seems to want to drag race my
Jeep Cherokee. Nobody wants to race my Camaro.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> But most of us ARE Jekyll / Hyde types. I currently drive a Volvo
> station
> wagon, not because I'm a safety nut but because when my last car
> died this was
> what was available to me at a price I could pay. I drive it very
> conservatively.
>
> But when I drive my wife's ford Probe, I tend to be a bit more lead
> footed and
> agressive. I think it is because I *KNOW* the station wagon can't
> "hot rod" so
> I don't bother to try, but I also *KNOW* that the Probe can.
>
> I don't think I am too atypical a driver.
>
> James
>
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about they ship you a set now! In return you agree to provide them with
real-world/real-time customer satisfaction comments and cycle life data.
No matter how much testing they do in the lab, some customer somewhere will
screw up all of their data with some weird scenario.
For the price of a Sparrow pack, you will probably be their least paid
technician.
Stay Charged! anyway
Hump
-----Original Message-----
From: John Lussmyer
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EV List
Sent: 1/2/03 5:46 PM
Subject: News from Evercel
From Evercel:
>Our office was closed several days durings the holidays ----- so my
>apologies for our late responses.
>The update as of Jan 2
>The MB-50 and MB-80 batteries are still going thru the final cycle
life
>testing at our factory in Xiamen China. That will be completed by the
last
>week in March at the earliest at this point.Everything thus far has
been
>positive -----
I'd guess that "end of March" means more like "June".
Well, back to figuring out alternate battery schemes....
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bummer. I wonder if that includes the
MB15-12-8's?
I still have not gotten a reply for them. But I'll given them until
Tuesday, before I panic and look elsewhere.
At 04:46 PM 1/2/2003, you wrote:
From Evercel:
>Our office was closed several days durings the holidays ----- so
my
>apologies for our late responses.
>The update as of Jan 2
>The MB-50 and MB-80 batteries are still going thru the final cycle
life
>testing at our factory in Xiamen China. That will be completed by the
last
>week in March at the earliest at this point.Everything thus far has
been
>positive -----
I'd guess that "end of March" means more like
"June".
Well, back to figuring out alternate battery schemes....
--
John G. Lussmyer
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
George,
This is by no means scientific, but my carbon monoxide detector inside
the house
went off at 2AM while the TEVan (which has NiCd batteries) was in the
process of
a full charge with equalization. The meter read 70-100 (I think). The
fireman's meter
read 150 beside the van (yes, the wife called them at 2AM). I later
found out after
internet surfing and sending emails to the respective manufacturors that
the CO detector
was responding to the gassing batteries.
A cheap H detector in my book!
Rod
www.qsl.net/w8rnh
George Tylinski wrote:
Does anyone know what it would take to implement Hydrogen sensors that
would respond to high concentrations but below "explosive" levels?
- GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:26 PM 1/2/2003 -0600, Gordon Niessen stated:
Bummer. I wonder if that includes the MB15-12-8's?
I still have not gotten a reply for them. But I'll given them until
Tuesday, before I panic and look elsewhere.
I had trimmed the msg from Evercel:
>We do have several hundred MB-100s on the way which will arrive here by the
>end of Jan at our Hingham office. These batteries have been fully tested and
>are ready for sale .Our MB-15s and MB-40s will also be on that shipment.
>That is the latest update ------
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments interspersed:
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Driver age, driving ability, vehicle handling, road conditions,
> etc.
> were not covered. They weren't the purpose of this study. The goal
> of
> this study was to see what effect vehicle type had in the relative
> number of fatalities.
First, to be clear, I'm not saying the study is necessarily wrong,
but I wouldn't put too much faith in the correctness of its
conclusions, either.
Statistics have shown a strong correlation between the density of
churches and crime rate -- yet no one would conclude that churches
cause crime! I'm saying I think I'm seeing the same thing with some
of the interpretation of this study. Just because a car type
correlates (or doesn't correlate) well with fatality rate doesn't
mean the car type is the underlying cause. Another factor may be more
important.
Just because comparing vehicle types was a goal of the study doesn't
mean it came up with valid conclusions. I agree with saying, in a
macro sense, xx type of car (and driver) had yy fatality rate.
Extrapolating that to explain the type of car is the cause is a
stretch. The study really should have more "axes:"
One axis is the car type (Better yet, to make it analytical, C.G. for
one axis, and weight for another). Another is the fatality rate. A
third is the age of the driver. Another is whether alcohol was
involved. Another would be gender. Others might be time of day,
weather, years of experience driving, you get the idea.
I'd bet you'd find very strong correlations for alcohol and age. You
might find minivan drivers were least likely to drink and drive. This
would be a shaky basis for calling the minivan a "safe type of car,"
while it could be statistically valid to say "As a group, minivans
(implicitly including drivers) had a low fatality rate." It well
could be if you put the average minivan driver into an SUV, they
would have an even lower fatality rate, even if the current
population of SUVs has a higher fatality rate.
> > Of course large European cars are going to be safer -- generally
> only
> > adults maybe 30+ years old can afford them.
> I don't see your point.
Point was just the driver demographic may be more a factor than the
type of car. (Although I am a big fan of the safety of European
cars.)
> > Likewise, minivans are safe because the "soccer moms" drive them.
> > When is the last time you've seen a teenager voluntarily driving
> a
> > minivan?
> ...
> I'm not a soccer mom, yet I've owned lots of minivan. I bought my
> first
> one as a teenager. I sold my last minivan to a teenager. Most of
> the
> people I know who have minivans do not fit the "soccer mom"
> stereotype.
The majority of Daimler-Chrysler minivan buyers are parents. And,
Lee, we are glad you are not typical -- your non-mainstream interests
are what make you so valuable to the EVDL. :)
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
I received a donation of these 12V Trojan batts. from
a friend who ordered the wrong ones. I need to get
them on a charger ASAP, as they are 6 mos. old.
Trojan lists them at $265. Any guess what the real
store price is?
If anyone needs a set, I will sell at 1/2 to 1/3 since
the goal of the donation is to help the school
EV/partnership.
They have never been used, and still have the outer
cardboard covers on them. Will get a message on the
Trading Post shortly.
Location: Southern OR.
=====
Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
____
/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are
you saving any gas for your kids?
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I need to keep track of AC power used by on board chargers and need to
find a compact kwh meter.
Preferably not the big glass fronted ones.
Thanks
Randy
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
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The lower flammability limit for H2 is 4%, the upper is 75% (IIRC). So
you probably want to target 2% H2 concentration or less. CO detectors
are sensitive to it, and you can buy 2% H2 test gas mix for testing from
industrial gas dealers, like BOC. I hear that the H2 detectors are
sensitive to CO as well, but there are significant differences between
the two.
A brushless fan ventilating the battery box during charging is
certainly a good first step.
The fire in the VW looks electrical to me not chemical, especially as
the majority of the energy was dissipated between the terminals with the
highest voltage difference.
A few 100 degree celsius normally closed thermal switches attached to
battery lugs, wired in series to the coil on a kilovac contactor are
also not a bad idea. A photocell that detects and ar or fire in a box
and opens a relay driving the kilovac contactor might be worth a try, if
you have a dark battery box and can avoid nuisance trips.
HTH
Seth
George Tylinski wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what it would take to implement Hydrogen sensors that
> would respond to high concentrations but below "explosive" levels?
>
> - GT
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
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Randy;
Seems like I saw something in an industry trade magazine recently showing a
commercial compact electronic KWh meter. Probably not inexpensive if you
can find them.
Brand makes a portable KWh meter that is usually used to determine loads on
appliances. It is PF corrected, and could probably be wired permanently
into the charging circuit. The advert I'm looking at says 8Kw capacity, if
that is enough for your purposes. Check out http://www.brandelectronics.com .
Standard 240 volt KWh meters can be modified to run on 120 volts with some
wiring changes, although they aren't really suitable for on-board vehicle
use. Not only are they large and bulky, they will only operate correctly
when mounted vertically, which makes mounting them under the hood
impractical, as they would be difficult to read. I imagine that being
off-level would also seriously affect their accuracy.
Does this help?
-S
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I paid $125 for some about one and half years ago.
Chris Brune
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I received a donation of these 12V Trojan batts. from
> a friend who ordered the wrong ones. I need to get
> them on a charger ASAP, as they are 6 mos. old.
> Trojan lists them at $265. Any guess what the real
> store price is?
> If anyone needs a set, I will sell at 1/2 to 1/3 since
> the goal of the donation is to help the school
> EV/partnership.
> They have never been used, and still have the outer
> cardboard covers on them. Will get a message on the
> Trading Post shortly.
> Location: Southern OR.
>
> =====
> Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
> ____
> /__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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I understand that several EV's are available overseas, commercially. If
one were to import half-a-dozen examples from those countries and :
1) exhibit them in different cities (with high interest in EVs)
2) Open an EV-dealership on a partime basis
How is that for wild dreaming :-) Do we have a rich Uncle?
Regards
Harsha Godavari
Marvin Campbell wrote:
>
> Taste me, taste me. Come on and taste me.
>
> That jingle (remember Doral cigarettes?) is still in my head. It hasn't been
> broadcast in thirty years.
>
> That is branding. If we could get that same Madison Avenue-style brain
> control working on our side...
>
> What we're all working toward is really common sense. The general public is
> simply misled by people who somehow profit from fomenting that public
> ignorance.
>
> People who see my EVs always seem genuinely amazed. They've never seen
> anything like them. Somehow we need to increase the public awareness of the
> fact that the technology exists today to make a BEV with a range of 300
> miles per charge.
>
> Solar energy, biodiesel, renewables, et al., all just make good sense. Most
> people on the street have no idea what is possible for an individual to
> achieve with technology that is available today.
>
> My New Year's resolution is to stop burning gasoline. Using BEVs and
> biodiesel I will be able to pull that off with minimal change in my daily
> routine.
>
> If we stop burning gas we'll be doing a lot more damage to OPEC than our
> smart bombs can.
>
> J. Marvin Campbell
> Culver City, CA
>
> on 1/1/03 8:05 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > From: "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:23:03 -0500
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
> >
> > Marvin,
> >
> > Could you define what you mean by 'branding the public with EVs,
> > renewables,etc.?'
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > www.ProEV.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:59 PM
> > Subject: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
> >
> >
> >> Here's a hypothetical for you-
> >>
> >> Let's say you had a friend who had just acquired a say in how one of the
> >> largest philanthropical organizations in the world directs their funding
> >> efforts.
> >>
> >> This friend is also very interested in promoting our cause, i.e., BEVs (of
> >> course), renewables, etc.
> >>
> >> If you were to be a consultant regarding these issues to this person, how
> >> would you advise they spend their money in order to best advance our
> > cause?
> >>
> >> What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most worthy,
> > and
> >> be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs, renewables,
> >> etc.?
> >>
> >> Just wondering...
> >>
> >> J. Marvin Campbell
> >> Culver City, CA
> >>
> >
> >
> > From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 21:25:21 -0500
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
> >
> > Don't vote for Bush or Cheney in 2004 :-)
> >
> > Marvin Campbell wrote:
> >
> >> Here's a hypothetical for you-
> >>
> >> Let's say you had a friend who had just acquired a say in how one of the
> >> largest philanthropical organizations in the world directs their funding
> >> efforts.
> >>
> >> This friend is also very interested in promoting our cause, i.e., BEVs (of
> >> course), renewables, etc.
> >>
> >> If you were to be a consultant regarding these issues to this person, how
> >> would you advise they spend their money in order to best advance our cause?
> >>
> >> What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most worthy, and
> >> be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs, renewables,
> >> etc.?
> >>
> >> Just wondering...
> >>
> >> J. Marvin Campbell
> >> Culver City, CA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:50:38 -0400
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
> >
> > Best way would be to manufacture a product and sell it at cost so the
> > most people who are really interested and can't afford to pay the price,
> > with 20 % profit, might be able to afford a price at cost and thereby get
> > into it.
> > It all boils down to the bottom line: those people with money don't seem
> > to care and those people that care don't seem to have the money.
> >
> > On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:23:03 -0500 "Cliff Rassweiler"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> Marvin,
> >>
> >> Could you define what you mean by 'branding the public with EVs,
> >> renewables,etc.?'
> >>
> >> Cliff
> >>
> >> www.ProEV.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:59 PM
> >> Subject: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Here's a hypothetical for you-
> >>>
> >>> Let's say you had a friend who had just acquired a say in how one
> >> of the
> >>> largest philanthropical organizations in the world directs their
> >> funding
> >>> efforts.
> >>>
> >>> This friend is also very interested in promoting our cause, i.e.,
> >> BEVs (of
> >>> course), renewables, etc.
> >>>
> >>> If you were to be a consultant regarding these issues to this
> >> person, how
> >>> would you advise they spend their money in order to best advance
> >> our
> >> cause?
> >>>
> >>> What organizations and/or projects do you believe would be most
> >> worthy,
> >> and
> >>> be able to do the most good in branding the public with EVs,
> >> renewables,
> >>> etc.?
> >>>
> >>> Just wondering...
> >>>
> >>> J. Marvin Campbell
> >>> Culver City, CA
> >>>
> >>
> >>
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Bob Rice wrote:
>> Be careful when ya run yur hipower cables! Make sure they are
>> separated from each other, as Bob Batson sez; run them down
>> each side of the car, til they hafta come together.
Jim Coate wrote:
> But... hasn't it often been said that the cables need to be run
> together in order to reduce radio interference?
I'm with Jim on this. Put your cables together, but be sure there is
plenty of insulation between them. This is how all high power wiring is
done.
If you have a fuse in the battery box (as you should), if some "event"
breaks down the insulation between the wires, the fuse will blow.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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George Tylinski wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what it would take to implement Hydrogen sensors that
> would respond to high concentrations but below "explosive" levels?
Hydrogen has a rather wide range of concentrations over which it will
burn. However, it is also fairly easy to detect with gas detectors. They
can respond to it well before the concentration reaches explosive
levels. For instance, I believe ordinary CO detectors are also sensitive
to hydrogen.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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> Jim Coate wrote:
> > But... hasn't it often been said that the cables need to be run
> > together in order to reduce radio interference?
>
> I'm with Jim on this. Put your cables together, but be sure there is
> plenty of insulation between them. This is how all high power wiring is
> done.
>
> If you have a fuse in the battery box (as you should), if some "event"
> breaks down the insulation between the wires, the fuse will blow.
How long may these high power lines run? I had envisioned putting the
majority of the GhiaMonster's batts in the very rear of the car with the
motors being at the very front. At full load, these two cables might carry
as much as a half a megawatt. The shortest distance I can imagine the
cables having to run is from the forwardmost battery box to the rearmost
motor at 7 feet. Also, what guage would be appropriate for these kinds of
power loads?
It looks like I'll have a rolling (not under its own power, of course)
GhiaMonster in my garage in a few weeks. The builder needs to work on some
other projects for a few months and so the Ghia will need to stay with me
during that time. I'll take the opportunity to do lots of measurements and
update the CAD drawing with proposed component placements but will hold off
installing anything permanently until the builder can take the car back and
finish installing the motors, transmission and the rest of the drivetrain.
I'll update the www.ghiamonster.com site with lots of pictures during that
time.
Steve
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
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