EV Digest 2509
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: GhiaMonster Battery Box Placement...
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Hypermini sighting or is it?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: VW fire (long rambling)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Hypermini
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Another Solectria Force for sale on Ebay
by Peter A VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tropica #16 has it's plates - LONG
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by Adam Kuehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: News from Evercel
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: News from Evercel
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Fw: Re: EV1
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) ampmeter 10 to 20 amp 2"
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ampmeter 10 to 20 amp 2"
by Peter A VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by Peter A VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: OT Vehicle safety: Bigger isn't better
by Adam Kuehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: News from Evercel
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: ampmeter 10 to 20 amp 2"
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Successful Hybrid Conversion
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) CG placement for a drag car (was: GhiaMonster Battery Box
Placement...)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion
by Peter A VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: How To Best Promote Our Cause?- A Christmas poem
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
That's a cool VRML, where did you get the Ghia 3D model? I would add the
Strange axle to the model ASAP, along with the coil-overs you appear to
be designing for, located in the fully compressed position. You will
probably find the need to move or alter the battery racks that are over
the axle. It's hard to tell with the perspective view, is there a way to
turn that off?
To really evaluate the weight distribution, you have to estimate the
weight and CG quantitatively. I know, it's a pain. Remember that weight
behind the rear axle c/l lifts the front of the car up (and vice-versa).
Your info suggests only 12 batteries (144 lb) in the front, leaving 720
lb more weight on the rear axle, that's about 30% of a 2400 lb car, so
35/65% front/rear distribution. In my opinion, that is too much weight
in the back for a STREET vehicle. But I've never driven anything with
that imbalance. It would take a lot of tire and suspension tuning to
have "average" cornering power. I am assuming roughly 50/50 balance
without batteries, like your 3 motors are tip-to-tail starting 18" in
front of the rear axle. Maybe you could look up the Maniac Mazda wt dist
and ask about driving that on the street for comparison.
Perhaps you could consider a partial "drag pack" which could be mounted
in front for street use and in the rear (or rear seat) for drag use.
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:29 AM
> To: 'EV List'
> Subject: GhiaMonster Battery Box Placement...
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I put a link to a 3D VRML drawing of a blind guess at battery
> box placement for the Ghia. It can be found at the
> http://www.ghiamonster.com site at the bottom of the > pictures
> section. If you need to install a VRML client for your
> browser to view it there's a link to one adjacent to the link
> to the 3D drawing.
>
> When you first pull up the drawing the camera is zoomed in
> way too far. Just click on the 'fit' button at the lower
> right of your browser's window, assuming you're using the
> Cortona VRML client I provided the link to. After that,
> click on the 'Study' button. If you then click on the
> drawing and drag your mouse to the right, the image will
> rotate about the Z axis and give you a view of the rear end
> and the battery box placement. The Ghia body and the battery
> boxes in the drawing are transparent so you'll be able to see
> into them.
>
> There's two battery boxes in the drawing. The first contains
> two rows of 4 buddy triplets of SVR batteries (a picture of
> how the buddy triplets are wired together can be found at
> http://www.ghiamonster.com/images/batterystrings.jpg but > they
> just appear in the drawing as nondescript pink boxes inside a
> larger transparent blue box - 4 wide, 3 deep and 1 tall), 12
> batteries per row, 24 in all. The second box sitting over
> the rear axle can hold 4 such rows for a total of 48
> batteries. Altogether, the drawing shows the rear of the
> vehicle holding 72 of the total 84 batteries.
>
> Does this arrangement make sense for the rear end?
>
> The batteries will have to be stacked so the majority will be
> relatively inaccessible and invisible once placed. Is that
> the wrong approach?
>
> We want to put a lot of weight over the rear axle to optimize
> traction but these boxes will end up holding an estimated 864
> lbs (batteries and connectors). Is that too much weight in
> such a confined location? How about heat dispersal? The
> dimensions alot for a padding beween vertical layers of
> batteries (never more than two deep but up to 6 wide). Is
> there a systematic way to move heat away from the batteries
> in this configuration?
>
> The drawing shows no means for supporting the weight of all
> these batteries. However, since we're building the tube frame
> from scratch, we have a lot of leeway in the design. Can
> anyone suggest a structure appropriate for supporting these
> battery boxes given the existing tube frame structure:
> http://www.ghiamonster.com/images/Mvc-003f.jpg ?
>
> Don't be
> surprised if there's some blatant mistakes with this design
> since this is my first attempt at this and I'm just taking a
> shot in the dark here. But, if I can get close to this many
> batteries in the back of the car, there should be plenty of
> room up front for all the remaining components without
> sacrificing the back seat.
>
> Please let me know what you think...
>
> Steve
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve wrote:
> How long may these high power lines run?
Arbitrarily long. However, the longer they are, the thicker they have to
be to limit the voltage drop. The extra length and size adds more
weight.
> I had envisioned putting the majority of the GhiaMonster's batts
> in the very rear of the car with the motors being at the very front.
Won't this lead to a pretty awkward weight distribution? Is the
Ghiamonster strictly for drag racing?
> The shortest distance I can imagine the cables having to run is from
> the forwardmost battery box to the rearmost motor at 7 feet.
Figuring out how to route the cables is a big consideration for most
EVs. Generally, you want to arrange the battery, controller, and motor
wiring in a loop so the total length of cable is minimized.
For example, assume the batteries are in a basically square array, and
the motor and controller are in front of them. You would try to arrange
the batteries so the + and - ends of the pack are both in front; not put
the + in front and the - in back, for example.
> Also, what guage would be appropriate for these kinds of
> power loads?
When performance counts, wire sizes should not use a "cookbook" answer.
Most wire tables make assumptions that aren't valid for an EV; like
continuous duty currents, number of wires bundled, amount of airflow,
ambient temperature, etc.
If you're racing and weight counts, use the smallest wire you can get
away with that won't overheat its insulation in the available running
time allowed by your batteries.
If you're after efficiency, pick your wire sizes by voltage drops. They
will be considerably bigger than if sized for performance.
Bare flat wires (bus bars) dissipate heat lots better, and are
preferable for racing if you can keep them safe (keep things from
contacting them).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe we have a Nissan Hypermini or two on campus here at the
College of Marin - Kentfield campus. I saw the first one a year
or two ago, and the second one today - silver colored. I think
the first was green, but it's been awhile, and therefore it's
conceivable that it's the same vehicle. The campus police use
them. The first sighting I had I was walking on campus, and a
big lumbering police car in semi-hurry mode comes up the path
behind me and other students, followed right on it's tail by the
Hypermini.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:39 AM
Subject: Hypermini sighting or is it?
> I have been seeing a vehicle sometimes in San Francisco that
looks like the
> Nissan Hypermini. Anybody know what this two seater is. I
know what a
> Th!nk looks like. This is slightly smaller and it is zippy. I
have never
> been able to catch it. I have seen it on Division and upper
Portola(Market
> street). Lawrence Rhodes..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After thinking about this, you can only use one temperature switch per
relay coil if the switches aren't isolated and they are attached to the
battery terminals, otherwise you will see the voltage differential
across the coil.
Seth
Seth wrote:
>
> The lower flammability limit for H2 is 4%, the upper is 75% (IIRC). So
> you probably want to target 2% H2 concentration or less. CO detectors
> are sensitive to it, and you can buy 2% H2 test gas mix for testing from
> industrial gas dealers, like BOC. I hear that the H2 detectors are
> sensitive to CO as well, but there are significant differences between
> the two.
>
> A brushless fan ventilating the battery box during charging is
> certainly a good first step.
>
> The fire in the VW looks electrical to me not chemical, especially as
> the majority of the energy was dissipated between the terminals with the
> highest voltage difference.
>
> A few 100 degree celsius normally closed thermal switches attached to
> battery lugs, wired in series to the coil on a kilovac contactor are
> also not a bad idea. A photocell that detects and arc or fire in a box
> and opens a relay driving the kilovac contactor might be worth a try, if
> you have a dark battery box and can avoid nuisance trips.
>
> HTH
>
> Seth
>
> George Tylinski wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know what it would take to implement Hydrogen sensors that
> > would respond to high concentrations but below "explosive" levels?
> >
> > - GT
>
> --
> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have seen Hyperminis at a few campuses. They
use the small inductive paddle ports to charge
with. The EV1-Club turned RAV4 EV drivers have
been busy building the spi to AVCON ratio to
2 to 1.
I have POSTed a newswire item that stated Nissan
is 'testing the waters' to know if the public
wants them.
No prices, no statements of when and if Nissan would
offer an EV were stated. Meanwhile, Nissan is able to
reap CARB credits for making this token effort while
trying to keep up with Honda's fcv development.
Old timers will remember the Nissan Altra. A superior
EV that had the room for 4 and more range than the
NiMH gen2 EV1 (with a full li-ion pack).
But Nissan is even more timid than DChysler (who is
supremely so). DC at least made their Van available
for lease in small numbers. Nissan: nada, nothing,
zip.
If you have not driven a Hypermini and are 6 foot
or shorter, you will find it larger than the NECAR
(truely a microcar), but not by much.
Yes, I am a big guy, but I measure with the average
California man in mind. Don McGrath NBEAA had fold
himsef up to get into the hypermini. The drive is
good, and power similar to the older euro Think
City EV model.
So, all this is fun to think about, but do not get
your hopes up. Many on the DC Smart group are still
waiting. So will the hypermini fans. Too many EV fans
are waiting at the altar, and in denial that the
automakers have stood them up.
There is no incentive for automakers to do anymore
than a token EV efforts as the current administration is
supporting the Automaker's cheating on College exams
(bush support their bad-boy behavior).
The media is a wash with words telling the public hold
out for fcvs (no one is saying it will use this war's
oil to fuel them).
I hope the above has deflated your hypermini ballon and
will keep anyone from getting their hypermini hopes up.
I want to see the Think City EV offered in the US, and
more new startup EV companies like
http://phoenixmotorcars.com
-Bruce
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seller wants $13,000, car is in Phoenix.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7250&item=1876236231
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll see what I can do /.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: Tropica #16 has it's plates - LONG
> Steve,
>
> If you ever get back to see that Tropic again, I'd be intersted in knowing
the VIN #. I'm trying to locate the few cars that were built. I'm not sure
what batteries I'll put in but I'm leaning toward US225s. I've got the
battery watering system repaired and now have the original quick
disconnects, flow indicator and regulator. What I don't have, yet, is time
using it to know it will, or won't work. I'll have that in the spring one
way or another. I have learned that you don't try and water the batteries
without the pressure regulator. When I first got the car, I blew off 3 caps!
Always learning something
> new. Last night we had a New Years party and one of the dads brought Silly
String for the kids. Did you know that Silly String will stain an ABS body,
like the Tropica for example? I had these nice purple stripes on my white
car. Fortunatly they were easy to buff out.
>
> Steve
>
> In a message dated 1/1/2003 1:53:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >
> >
> > I am surprised at how long you have gone with your old Battery pack . I
> > think you are right on in getting to know the car ect with an old pack .
> > There is a Tropical at the local collage in my town . I got to see it a
few
> > months ago ( was going to write about it but didn't ) I had seen it in
a
> > book , but seeing it live was quite an experience. A beautiful car.
They
> > were having trouble with there charger also . Are you planning on using
6v
> > golf cart bats or something sealed . watering looks like a problem.
> > enjoy your post
> > Steve Clunn
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
> While I agree that, by itself, this study does not tell you
> definitively whether or not SUVs are inherently more dangerous than
> other vehicles, it does provide some useful data to consider, and
> is
equally valid - to whatever extent - for both vehicles.
I differ a bit here. There are two basic safety issues, the safety of
the car, and the safety of the driver.
Perhaps this is where we differ the most. I think there are a *lot*
more factors at work than just the two and I don't think that one
exclusion is any more fundamental than the others. I particular, I
would think that road conditions, driver distractions, and alcohol
may be just as important, if not more so, than driver type. Those
may or may not be systematically related to the vehicle type, and
there's no way to know without controlling for them.
It could be for you (let's say for sake of argument a 40
year old with a perfect driving record) a Camaro would be much safer
than a Sentra -- heavier, stops faster, harder to roll, more crush
space. In this case it doesn't matter that a disproportionate number
of Camaro drivers are crazy young males that street race.
You have an excellent point, although it is hard to see how you could
account for those factors in any reliable, objective way. An
individual's "safety match" is an independent variable that can't
really be controlled for in any study, because you are, by
definition, always working with a sample size of one. So what you
really appear to be arguing is that one can never use *any* safety
study to meaningfully choose a safer car. I don't agree that this is
true.
Anyway, we could pick nits all day, but we seem to be in basic
agreement that this study is 1. useful, at least for some purposes,
but 2. limited in scope and in need of a follow-up.
I'm happy to leave it at that.
--
-Adam Kuehn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: News from Evercel
> At 06:26 PM 1/2/2003 -0600, Gordon Niessen stated:
> >Bummer. I wonder if that includes the MB15-12-8's?
> >
> >I still have not gotten a reply for them. But I'll given them until
> >Tuesday, before I panic and look elsewhere.
>
> I had trimmed the msg from Evercel:
> >We do have several hundred MB-100s on the way which will arrive here by
the
> >end of Jan at our Hingham office. These batteries have been fully tested
and
> >are ready for sale .Our MB-15s and MB-40s will also be on that shipment.
> >That is the latest update ------
>
Hi All;
Gees! That would be nice. If they come off the boat, broken in and load
tested?Meaning drop them into the car and drive away, for 100 mile range?
Sounds too good to be true? Sheer? Got yur ears on? How are YOURS holding
up, in the Accord. Which model are you running? Would yu reccommend them? As
I remember, you were running higher voltage of them.
Hingham, that's MA, right? In MY time zone.Maybe takaride up to meet the
"Current" offering.Adopt some.Maybe.
Seeya
Bob
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who you saved enough money from Christmas to buy some.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:18:34 -0500 "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: News from Evercel
>
>
> > At 06:26 PM 1/2/2003 -0600, Gordon Niessen stated:
> > >Bummer. I wonder if that includes the MB15-12-8's?
> > >
> > >I still have not gotten a reply for them. But I'll given them
> until
> > >Tuesday, before I panic and look elsewhere.
> >
> > I had trimmed the msg from Evercel:
> > >We do have several hundred MB-100s on the way which will arrive
> here by
> the
> > >end of Jan at our Hingham office. These batteries have been
> fully tested
> and
> > >are ready for sale .Our MB-15s and MB-40s will also be on that
> shipment.
> > >That is the latest update ------
> >
> Hi All;
>
> Gees! That would be nice. If they come off the boat, broken in
> and load
> tested?Meaning drop them into the car and drive away, for 100 mile
> range?
> Sounds too good to be true? Sheer? Got yur ears on? How are YOURS
> holding
> up, in the Accord. Which model are you running? Would yu reccommend
> them? As
> I remember, you were running higher voltage of them.
>
> Hingham, that's MA, right? In MY time zone.Maybe takaride up to
> meet the
> "Current" offering.Adopt some.Maybe.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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Only $9.95 per month!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought that this might be of interest to the list. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saturn Customer Assistance Center" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: Re: EV1
> Hello Lawrence,
>
> Thanks for writing back to Saturn.
>
> Yes, GM plans to donate a few of these vehicles to museums and technical
> institutions. However, the deadline to apply was June, 2001. We
appreciate
> your interest in the EV1. GM is currently experimenting with a smaller
> "neighborhood" vehicle called the "Pathway". For more information about
> this, you can visit the website at www.pathway-research.com
>
> Thanks again for your interest in the EV1. Please don't hesitate to
contact
> us again if we can be of further assistance to you.
>
> Have a great weekend,
>
> Carol Duncan
> Saturn Customer Assistance Center
> 1-583546
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: 01/02/2003 16:43:47
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: EV1
>
> I hate to be pushey but what will be the fate of the EV1s. I heard that
they
> will be crushed to avoid legal responsibility. I have however learned
that
> MIT got one sans the batteries. Will you be donating some to educational
> institutions? If so how might I apply? Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saturn Customer Assistance Center" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:18 PM
> Subject: RE: EV1
>
>
> > Dear Lawrence,
> >
> > Thanks for writing to Saturn. We appreciate your interest in the EV1.
> >
> > General Motors is no longer producing the EV1 and they are not available
> for
> > sale.:o( We appreciate your contacting us and if we can further assist
> you,
> > please don't hesitate to contact us. You can email us again, or if you
> > prefer, you can call us at 1-800-522-5000 and the consultant who answers
> the
> > phone will be happy to assist you.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Carol Duncan
> > Saturn Customer Assistance Center
> > 1-583546
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 01/02/2003 04:10:40
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: EV1
> >
> > Email - :[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > Category - :None of the above:
> > EmailSubject - :EV1:
> > Date - :20030102:
> > Time - :050823:
> >
> > F.Name - :Lawrence:
> > L.Name - :Rhodes:
> >
> > Preferred - :E-mail:
> > Phone - ::
> > Opt in - ::
> > Zip - :94110:
> >
> > Message -
> > I would like to purchase an EV1 in any condition except crushed. This
in
> no
> > joke. I am a car collector and would like to have one for my collection
> > running or not. With batteries or not. Thank you. Lawrence
> Rhodes.......I
> > would not need spare parts and would sign an agreement to that
> > effect...........
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Needed 10 amp ampmeter (or 20) for a golfcart. Direct connect style. Two
inches in diameter. Square or round face is ok as long as it has the
mounting hardware to keep it in a two inch hole. This is for the charging
circuit of a 36v golfcart. The old one was so worn out that I couldn't
figure out if it was 10, 15 or 20 amps. I am assuming any golf cart
charging at 110 to 125v won't go over 10 amps if it is a 15 amp circuit.
This cart does have a second input that is ungrounded. Radio Shack used to
have 20 amp ampmeters for cheap but they are no longer available. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Jan 2003 at 21:13, harsha godavari wrote:
> 1) exhibit them in different cities (with high interest in EVs)
> 2) Open an EV-dealership on a partime basis
>
I think if I were going to do this, I'd establish a partnership with an
experienced and recognized industrial EV dealer.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you tried looking in your local auto parts store?
They sell 2" charge/discharge meter. Not terribly accurate, but should
be good within 10% (1 amp). I normally see these in 60 amp models but
you can sometimes find 20-30 amp.
On Fri, 2003-01-03 at 11:07, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Needed 10 amp ampmeter (or 20) for a golfcart. Direct connect style. Two
> inches in diameter. Square or round face is ok as long as it has the
> mounting hardware to keep it in a two inch hole. This is for the charging
> circuit of a 36v golfcart. The old one was so worn out that I couldn't
> figure out if it was 10, 15 or 20 amps. I am assuming any golf cart
> charging at 110 to 125v won't go over 10 amps if it is a 15 amp circuit.
> This cart does have a second input that is ungrounded. Radio Shack used to
> have 20 amp ampmeters for cheap but they are no longer available. Lawrence
> Rhodes.......
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know it occures to me that it's more important HOW a vehicle holds
up in an accident that whether or not it is more statistically likely to
have and accident.
For example it's not much of a stretch to assume that a fiberglass
bodied Sterling kit car is less likely to roll over than say a Suzuki
Samuri. However if the Samarui rolls it might have better survival
statistics than something like the Sterling.
The point here is that survival statistics have much less contributing
factors. I.e. if you crash head on into a brick wall at 40 mph, it
doesn't much matter how old you are or what sex you are.
Granted being drunk may have contributed to the crash but it has very
little effect on survivability. It does matter if you are driving a
1970 VW Van or a 1987 Toyota Tercel though (even though it's a smaller
car, I'd much rather be in the Tercel).
A good driver will keep the vehicles capabilities in mind and will have
similar chances of having an accident in just about any vehicle. For
example I'm not going to try weaving in an out of traffic at 120 mph in
my 4Runner. I might be temped to do this in a Lambourgini though.
Survival statistics can provide useful information if they are qualified
for speed and type of accident (head on, rear end, roll over, etc.)
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The point here is that survival statistics have much less contributing
factors. I.e. if you crash head on into a brick wall at 40 mph, it
doesn't much matter how old you are or what sex you are.
Granted being drunk may have contributed to the crash but it has very
little effect on survivability. It does matter if you are driving a
1970 VW Van or a 1987 Toyota Tercel though (even though it's a smaller
car, I'd much rather be in the Tercel).
Done that stone-sober in my first car (1975 MGB). Totaled the car,
totaled the wall, I walked away (well, limped) on a broken foot,
shredded knee, and fractured spine. I suppose I could have died, but
I'm kinda glad it was a somewhat heavier vehicle. If I'd had that
accident in my second car (1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse) I'd probably be
dead. That thing was crap. Quality over age, I'd say.
Drunkeness has a lot to do with survival rates. Instinct tells you to
tense up when danger strikes. This is bad in a wreck and can kill
you. Drunks tend to stay looser and less tense, and so survive better.
--
___________________________________________________
Michael Hurley Digital Print Specialist
AlphaGraphics, Inc. (901) 681-9909
1195 Ridgeway Rd. (901) 761-2139 FAX
Memphis, TN 38119 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Michael Hurley wrote:
Drunkeness has a lot to do with survival rates. Instinct tells you
to tense up when danger strikes. This is bad in a wreck and can kill
you. Drunks tend to stay looser and less tense, and so survive
better.
Drunkenness can provide some survivability if you are comparing a
drunk in a certain type of accident to a sober person in a similar
accident. When you are comparing overall survivability from being on
the road at all, drunks are at a significant disadvantage based
solely on their propensity to get into accidents in the first place.
--
-Adam Kuehn
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> Gees! That would be nice. If they come off the boat, broken in and
load
> tested?Meaning drop them into the car and drive away, for 100 mile range?
> Sounds too good to be true? Sheer? Got yur ears on? How are YOURS holding
> up, in the Accord. Which model are you running? Would yu reccommend them?
As
> I remember, you were running higher voltage of them.
Two of them have developed high self-discharge rates which would appear to
be typical dendrite formation. The others are all cranking along just fine.
The Accord is over at Dave Cloud's being outfitted with tow bars, getting
the vac pump mounted, the flywheel balanced, and some other
nitpicking-detail kind of things. I should be picking it up this weekend.
(I love having a local EV mechanic. ;-))
S.
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A typical battery charger for a 36-volt golf cart will deliver about 30 amps
to the batteries and draw about 15 amps from a 120-volt outlet. My old
Lester golf cart charger has a 30-amp dc ammeter
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 10:07 AM
Subject: ampmeter 10 to 20 amp 2"
> Needed 10 amp ampmeter (or 20) for a golfcart. Direct connect style. Two
> inches in diameter. Square or round face is ok as long as it has the
> mounting hardware to keep it in a two inch hole. This is for the charging
> circuit of a 36v golfcart. The old one was so worn out that I couldn't
> figure out if it was 10, 15 or 20 amps. I am assuming any golf cart
> charging at 110 to 125v won't go over 10 amps if it is a 15 amp circuit.
> This cart does have a second input that is ungrounded. Radio Shack used
to
> have 20 amp ampmeters for cheap but they are no longer available.
Lawrence
> Rhodes.......
>
>
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On 2 Jan 2003 at 21:13, harsha godavari wrote:
>> 1) exhibit them in different cities (with high interest in EVs)
>> 2) Open an EV-dealership on a partime basis
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> I think if I were going to do this, I'd establish a partnership
> with an experienced and recognized industrial EV dealer.
Here's an idea I mentioned before. Perhaps I should mention it again.
Habitat for Humanity (HFH) is a charitable organization that builds
houses for poor people. Basically, you sign up on their waiting list,
and volunteer to work on building the home of whoever is on top of the
list. The more you work, the more "sweat equity" you earn, moving your
name higher on the list. When you get to the top and they build your
house, you own it, free and clear!
It encourages people to work toward a goal, and teaches them basic
skills. They have to show up, and do the work. Doing the various
painting, drywalling, nailing, etc. teaches them the skills necessary to
maintain their own home. And they take care of it, because they EARNED
it -- it's theirs!
The program has been so successful that HFH has become the largest home
builders in the world.
How about starting something similar for building EVs? Poor people have
serious transportation problems, due to our country's lack of focus on
mass transit. The cars the poor can afford are some of the worst
polluters and get the worst gas mileage, and are being used right in the
cities where pollution is the worst. Replacing them with clean, cheap,
EVs should be a major help to their family budgets.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Has anyone successfully created a parallel or series hybrid capable of
at least 300 miles? Any reviews of the still-alive eCycle
motor/generator? Thanks!
-Sam
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At 02:29 AM 1/2/03, you wrote:
The goal of battery placement is to put the CG of the car in the ideal
point. I should say, on the ideal line.
Make a mark on the floor where the back tires contact the ground. This is
the "contact point". Next, draw a line from the contact point straight
forward exactly 2.8 yards. Put a 1 yard pole straight up from the end of
the line you just drew. Run a string from the top of the pole back to the
contact point. The CG of the car must lie somewhere on this line (or a
projection of this line forward) for the car to get maximum traction on the
drag strip.
The farther forward on the line that you place the CG, the more sensitive
the car will be to changes in traction. Thus, you are best off to keep the
CG as close to the contact point as you can while still remaining on the
line. If the traction is poor at the track, you want to move the CG
slightly below the line. If the traction is exceptionally good at the
track, you might want to move the CG sightly above the line.
It is handy to be able to move the CG at the track. Thus, it is useful to
make the battery box larger than it needs to be so you can put in dummy
batteries (or other spacers) that you can swap around with real batteries.
Thus, you can move batteries from the front to the rear or from side to
side in the box to shift the CG around. Sometimes, (like on my bike) you
just don't have the room to make the battery box any larger than it
absolutely has to be. In your door slammer, however, it is likely that you
have the room to spare to do this. Even if you just make room for three of
four dummies, spread between the packs, you can make very useful changes in
the CG to get the car to launch straight and hard.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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Sure, both Toyota and Honda sell hybrids capable of going well over 300
miles on a tank of gas.
On Fri, 2003-01-03 at 14:40, Sam Harper wrote:
> Has anyone successfully created a parallel or series hybrid capable of
> at least 300 miles? Any reviews of the still-alive eCycle
> motor/generator? Thanks!
>
> -Sam
>
--
EVDL
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--- Begin Message ---
THE GRINCH REVISITED (with thank to Dr. Seuss) �2002 Doug Goodkin
>
> The Whos down in Whoville liked this country a lot,
> But the Grinch in the White House most certainly did not.
> He didn't arrive there by the will of the Whos,
> But stole the election that he really did lose.
> Vowed to "rule from the middle," then installed his regime.
> (Did this really happen or is it just a bad dream?)
>
> He didn't listen to voters, just his friends he was pleasin'
> Now, please don't ask why, no one quite knows the reason.
> It could be his heart wasn't working just right.
> It could be, perhaps, that he wasn't too bright.
> But I think that the most likely reason of all,
> Is that both brain and heart were two sizes too small.
> In times of great turmoil, this was bad news,
> To have a government that ignores its Whos.
>
> But the Whos shrugged their shoulders, went on with their work,
> Their duties as citizens so casually did shirk.
> They shopped at the mall and watched their T.V.
> They drove their gas guzzling big S.U.V.
> Oblivious to what was going on in D.C.
> Ignoring the threats to democracy.
> They read the same papers that ran the same leads,
> Reporting what only served corporate needs.
> (For the policies affecting the lives of all nations
> Were made by the giant U.S. Corporations.)
> Big business grew fatter, fed by its own greed,
> And by people who shopped for the things they didn't need.
>
> But amidst all the apathy came signs of unrest,
> The Whos came to see we were fouling our nest.
> And the people who cared for the ideals of this nation
> Began to discuss and exchange information.
> The things they couldn't read in the corporate-owned news
> Of FTAA meetings and CIA coups.
> Of drilling for oil and restricting rights.
> They published some books, created Websites
> Began to write letters and use their e-mail
> (Though Homeland Security might send them to jail!)
>
> What began as a whisper soon grew to a roar,
> These things going on they could no longer ignore.
> They started to rise up and fight City Hall
> Let their voices be heard, they rose to the call,
> To vote, to petition, to gather, dissent,
> To question the policies of the "President."
>
> As greed gained in power and power knew no shame
> The Whos came together, sang "Not in our name!"
> One by one from their sleep and their slumber they woke
> The old and the young, all kinds of folk,
> The black, brown and white, the gay, bi- and straight,
> All united to sing, "Feed our hope, not our hate!
> Stop stockpiling weapons and aiming for war!
> Stop feeding the rich, start feeding the poor!
> Stop storming the deserts to fuel SUV's!
> Stop telling us lies on the mainstream T.V.'s!
> Stop treating our children as a market to sack!
> Stop feeding them Barney, Barbie and Big Mac!
> Stop trying to addict them to lifelong consuming,
> In a time when severe global warming is looming!
> Stop sanctions that are killing the kids in Iraq!
> Start dealing with ours that are strung out on crack!"
>
> A mighty sound started to rise and to grow,
> "The old way of thinking simply must go!
> Enough of God versus Allah, Muslim vs. Jew
> With what lies ahead, it simply won't do.
> No American dream that cares only for wealth
> Ignoring the need for community health.
> The rivers and forests are demanding their pay,
> If we're to survive, we must walk a new way.
> No more excessive and mindless consumption
> Let's sharpen our minds and garner our gumption.
> For the ideas are simple, but the practice is hard,
> And not to be won by a poem on a card.
> It needs the ideas and the acts of each Who,
> So let's get together and plan what to do!"
>
> And so they all gathered from all 'round the Earth
> And from it all came a miraculous birth.
> The hearts and the minds of the Whos they did grow,
> Three sizes to fit what they felt and they know.
> While the Grinches they shrank from their hate and their greed,
> Bearing the weight of their every foul deed.
>
> From that day onward the standard of wealth,
> Was whatever fed the Whos' spiritual health.
> They gathered together to revel and feast,
> And thanked all who worked to conquer their beast.
> For although our story pits Grinches 'gainst Whos,
> The true battle lies in what we daily choose.
> For inside each Grinch is a tiny small Who,
> And inside each Who is a tiny Grinch too.
> One thrives on love and one thrives on greed.
> Who will win out? It depends who you feed!
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