EV Digest 2463
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Surplus aircraft nicads
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Viruses and Bugs OT a bit
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EVs on TVs
by "Chad Peddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Amps Volts can Kostov take? / Controller current.
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 1kW Hydrogen Fuel Cell $5995
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Gobs of 15V, 2A supplies for sale
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Victor's PowerCheq Mystery SOLVED!!!!
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Amps Volts can Kostov take?
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Amps Volts can Kostov take? / Controller current.
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Zev Workshop
by josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Access OK
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Zinc air.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Fuel Cell Honda
by "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Fuel Cell Honda
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) GEM driving (was: EVs on TVs)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) OT: Bumper Stickers...
by "fyrehawk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EDISON DISALLOWS CONDUCTIVE CHARGING ON EV TOU METERS!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Dec 2002 at 8:42, Marvin Campbell wrote:
> Anybody else in the LA area up for helping produce some EV PSA's?
Trouble is, oce you've produced them, who's going to air them?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:43 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
A possible concern is that nicads have such low internal resistance,
that if they were at different voltages at the end of a charge cycle,
simply switching them in parallel might lead to some alarming peak
current surges.
The big honkin diodes would take care of this. (Actually, would eliminate
the need for a double-pole contactor.)
I think I would just charge each parallel string with a resistor in
series with each (light bulbs, or perhaps a couple of blowers :-) That
Again, the pair of diodes would probably cure this as well.
NOW, the biggest problem is getting some NiCd's. The company that shows
them for sale http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm is VERY
unresponsive. I sent an email asking about quantity discounts, and did
receive a reply about 2 days later. I then asked how to order 10 or 12 to
try out. No response. I sent several other emails asking about ordering
etc... No Response. I tried calling for 2 days. No Answer, not even a
machine.
Seems like this person/company just isn't interested in actually selling
product. Wonder why he bothers advertising with his webpage.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All that commented on my Virus thing.
Thanks for the ideas and advise. I schlepped the whole outfit down to my
computer garu. He talked ne out of trashing Windoz completely, clean up the
hard drive and installed the newer Norton anti virus system. It wouldn't
install first time. Bugs in the harddrive wouldn't letr it! He had to take
it out and run it in a outfit just for delousing and finding hidden Trojan
Horses, No T145's here! found corruped files, worms, two Iraqi submarines
and a partridge in a pear tree. A liteny of collected crap, weeded it out, I
hope, and already the Norton has cried "Fowl" a few times, and has let me
trash a infected mail, before it gets into my system. Like it's getting paid
for!
Soooo my outfit should be pure as the newfallen snow here in CT?
Seeya
Bob Back to EV stuff, now?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin Campbell wrote:
> I'm just worried that they'll notice I'm drawing enough to charge two
> cars and that will start them to thinking...
They can't know how many miles you're driving your EV, so they can't
estimate how many KWH per month is "normal".
The Magnechargers are "fast" chargers, so they can draw a lot of power
for brief periods. This drain could just as likely be two smaller
conductive chargers -- they can't tell.
The whole point of TOU metering is to get people to shift their energy
consumption to off-peak hours, when the utilities have power to spare.
It should not matter what you use this power for.
Even if Edison has wrangled a special rate for EV charging, you *are*
using the TOU power to charge an EV. So, I can't see that they have a
leg to stand on in giving you grief.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
GEM's
Most people buying the GEM will not go even 20 miles per charge. They are
designed to drive around golf courses and on plants. It will be rare if
they need the full 35 mile range. A positive thing I see about the GEM or
Fords THINK is getting massive amounts of small, inefficient, non-smoged,
polluting golf carts out of commission.
Moving from many smog sources to one efficient power plant is a good thing.
Chad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:46 PM
Subject: EVs on TVs
> While Job searching, coverletter editing, and dashing off
> resumes, I just saw for the umpteenth-time the GEM TV ad.
>
> While it refreshing to see EVs on TVs (even if it is nEV),
> I wonder about a few points, and query the EV List for
> discussion (and correction of needed).
>
> The DC GEM and the Ford neighbor that I drove at the (San
> Francisco) SFOcave EVent were basically the same.
> IMHO: A cheap design, to get a low cost nEV out there to
> grab as many CARB credits as possible.
>
> Neighbors are basically gone, Lido, Zenn and all the other
> nEVs are not really being marketed as well, so let focus
> on the GEM push.
>
> A 6 12V deep-cycle (not traction) battery 72 volt golf car
> system, with no regen, and an on board 1k charge (assume 50%
> efficient).
>
> First the TV ad says the GEM gets a 35 mile range.
> I do not see that as being true, unless they ran the GEM on
> a circular track at low speed continuously (non stop).
>
> On the nEV group, users are POSTing about a 20 mile range at
> best, and usually getting 15 miles in crawl mode.
>
> Is that range a discharge to a flat battery? If so,
> deep-cycle batteries are not designed to be discharged that
> low (not without killing them). Deep-cycle batteries should
> not be driven the same as traction batteries (the kind
> used in conversions: T105, T125, T145, etc.
>
> So, is that 20 miles is really 15 miles if you want to
> retain what short cycle life a deep-cycle pack has?
>
> If the above is true, then truth in advertising needs to be
> invoked. Face it, most new nEV buyers are going to be new to
> EVs with an ICE background.
>
> Without an EAA chapter's or EV group's guidance, new EV
> drivers are going to lead-foot the EV and get poor results.
> This can only hurt the reputation of the EV
> (or is that the goal?).
>
> Then again, it would be even a harder sell to state the
> range is only 20 miles.
>
> The GEM TV commercial is short but not used efficently. Much
> more info could be put on it, besides the vehicle looking
> visually appealing, with upbeat background music, and a
> couple of visual examples of the nEV's use.
>
> Not mentioned is: the low cost per mile, the high
> (equivalent) mpg which reduces pollution, the buy down
> programs, their web site url at the bottom of the screen,
> the 120 VAC plug-in ease of use, and the fact that
> EVS are just fun to drive.
>
> I suppose with Oil based h2 fcvs being touted all over the
> newswires (thus the media), and the Automakers already
> saying the public should wait for them, no new EV ads will
> be made. They have their credits, why spend more money after
> bad? (Automakers have always thought EVs were a bad idea).
>
> But what about the RAV4 EV? I have not seen TV ads for them
> on Silicon Valley TV airwaves. But I suppose the automakers
> are holding back on that too.
>
> Why should Toyota push full size/performance EVs like the
> RAV4 EV? They have a free sales force: all the EV drivers
> who speak to the public and answer the questions the
> automakers don't. They will get their quota sold with
> minimal effort.
>
> Automakers know we want are commission as more EVs on the
> road. But as we have seen with Honda, GM, and Ford, the
> cord is going to be pulled, and replaced with a fuel tank.
>
> Watt are your views?
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above EV ascci art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
It's great to hear from the father of the 'Zilla himself on this subject! There simply
aren't enough superlatives to describe my feelings on Oat's controllers he
builds...awesome seems to come close. I have 'never' had any controller related
problems
in my race car...never. I've twisted off axles, twisted off transmission input shafts,
ruined clutches, mangled drivelines, destroyed universals, broken too many rear ends to
list-including cracking the gears of my Ford 9 inch, melted an armature's
windings...gads,
the list could go on and on, but through it all, 'Zilla #3 keeps on rock'n! I've also
subjected this controller to all sorts of 'Wayland' ideas, that when I first run them
by
Oat, he cringes, sweats a little, then says, oh well, it should be able to handle
it...go
for it!
Let's see.......My own version of series parallel switching designed around when Oat
and I
timed how fast I can plant down my size 12 Reebok...in the latest more powerful
'Zillas,
it's now all controlled by the Hairball, thank you....my own voltage injection thing
where
I jam the motors with 408V with the 'Zilla going in and out of circuit...no problems,
thank you! Gotta tell everyone who may not get it yet...Oat builds the world's most bad
ass controller, period!!! And, though I'm sworn to secrecy, let it suffice to say he's
got a few more tricks up his sleeve......
Otmar wrote:
> The Kostov commutator has relatively little mass and so
> can overheat quickly at high current. I've seen dragsters that lifted
> bars pretty quickly without ever being held at stall.
To clarify on this, Oat is talking about the stock Kostov commutator, not a modified
one,
as mine was. After I did several tricks to the com, it never had a single raised com
bar,
even though it saw 1400 amp currents, voltages as high as 260V at around 500 amps, and
revs as high as 7600 rpm. I'd seen the same dragsters with those raised com bars Oat
talked about, which is what actually led me to redesign things to change the way the
com
bars handled both
heat and centrifugal forces. By making a spacer, I was able to move the brush rigging
towards the armature center, thus moving the brush contact area closer to where the com
bar ends were mated to the armature's thick windings where the heat could be wicked
away...less heat, less softening of the com bar glue. The other end of the com bars
that
used to get most of the heat and had no heat sinking armature windings to help them
out,
now had less heat being dumped into them, so that in itself helped a great deal. With
the
brushes closer to the other end, there was now a wider area at the other end of the
commutator...I had Warfield cut a shallow groove cut into them, where they were then
wrapped with Kevlar banding...now if they tried to lift, they couldn't. I used a com
stone
to get the com nice and smooth, too. I also had the armature re-dipped with a higher
insulation value, we wrapped it with extra banding, and we fully balanced it, too. I
had
super thick bent and curved solid copper buss bars made to replace the 'coat hanger'
brush
interconnect leads. I also re-timed the brushes further advanced. The bearings were
replaced with beefier units, too. The field coils, interpole coils, and the brushes
themselves, were kept stock and were the factory Kostov parts.
> On the other hand, I've never seen a motor of this size take as much voltage
> without fireballing as a Kostov. As John says, they seem to have no
> trouble with 250V at the terminals.
Yup, true story!
Though the Sep Ex sounds interesting to a point, I'd like to see you simply get a
beefed
up Kostov and run it in series mode as I did, or a pair of 8 inch Warp motors and a new
'Zilla with automatic series - parallel switching from a Hairball, and of course,
aggressive batteries that can keep up with the 'Zilla. In a light enough car, this
would
be a killer street machine! My 1995 lb. car has an old model 'Zilla with 'only' 1400
amps
of 'from the battery' with 1400 'motor loop amps' rated power and a very tired 336V
pack
of little AGM batteries that sag from 336V down to as low as 150V now, but it can still
rip off 13.5-13.8 second runs. Imagine a similar weighted light car but with a new
'muscle
'Zilla', either a big Kostov or a pair of motors, and new larger capacity AGM's that
will
only sag to 220V or so....Yee Hah!!! Can you say mid 12's? Oh yeah, better get a real
beefy rear end set up (you ARE going with RWD, right?)
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All well and good. However the model that makes money or profit is the one
based on gasoline. It worked and the next system will include products that
use the system be it hydrogen or whatever. At least that is what the big
companies want. An electric car and PV gets you out of the system. I like
that idea. I still think people in general feel uneasy about fuel in the
form of electricity. They don't understand storage concepts. Now wouldn't
it be nice to get a Rudman Zeropoint Free energy machine. (lol) Really
takes you out of the system. To bad about stright jacket.... Lawrence
Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony McCormick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: 1kW Hydrogen Fuel Cell $5995
The point is to get hydrogen from water, not fosil fuels.
--Tony
-------Original Message-------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, December 05, 2002 01:16:38 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: 1kW Hydrogen Fuel Cell $5995
All up looks like you would be better off putting a few more GC batteries in
the car. Better energy density and better storage efficiency. Before you
get exited about full cells remember that hydrogen is not a fuel (an energy
source) like oil but merely a way to store energy like a battery. Unless
you are getting the hydrogen from oil or natural gas in which case it would
be more efficient to drive one of the current hybrid cars.
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: 1kW Hydrogen Fuel Cell $5995
Edward Ang wrote:
> I was thinking may be one of these sitting on the back
> seat. It would be cool to charge the pack while
> shopping at locations without public charging
> stations.
>
> Or, if we could generate hydrogen at home and refuel
> the unit, we won't even need charging at work. A
> 9-hour workday could put 8-9kWh back to the pack for
> the trip home. Then, we recharge the pack and refuel
> the fuelcell with hydrogen at night.
Only a few flies in the ointment:
- a spec not listed is the 1500hr operating lifetime of the Nexa fuel
cell itself ... just over 33 weeks of use if you used it as suggested
(9hr workday, 5 days/week). $6000/167 days (charges) = ~$36/charge in
up-front equipment costs.
- the 101lb weight is *without* fuel; a 196cu-ft cylinder weighs another
133lbs, stands 51" tall, and will run the fuel cell for 11.5hrs at
*half* power... better plan on squeezing in a pair of them if you want
to get 8-9kWh back into the pack in 9hrs. The hydrogen is stored at
2000psi; even if you can generate "fuel cell grade" hydrogen at home, it
may be a challenge to generate the required quantity overnight and
compress it into the cylinder.
- the cost of hydrogen fuel is said to be about $15/100 cu-ft; your
application would consume a pair of 196 cu-ft cylinders *daily*...
$60/day for charging! Then there are the tank rental and delivery
charges...
- the operating environment for the Nexa fuel cell is 3C-30C (37-86F)...
better live in a temperate climate and not leave your EV parked in the
sun!
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 7 Dec 2002 at 8:42, Marvin Campbell wrote:
>Anybody else in the LA area up for helping produce some EV PSA's?
Trouble is, once you've produced them, who's going to air them?
Ted W., who originally converted the truck I now have, gave me a copy of
a video that made the rounds at his local cable access TV channel in
Connecticut. It included interviews with himself and Jack Gretta and
footage of the S-10 and Jack's MG.
Rather then trying to get major networks to show something, what if
produced a variety of options (video, voice, and print) for local EVers
and EVA chapters to give to their local access stations, college radio
stations, etc.? For the college stations, I know that at the smaller
ones at least pretty much every PSA mailed in makes it into the Big
Notebook and then the DJs just pick some that they like at the moment of
need, so admittedly hit or miss (and admittedly pirate radio stations
have more transmitter power than some of these college stations). But
maybe its a start.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have about 80 Toshiba 15 VDC, 2 amp AC Adapters (PA2411U.) They are 100
to 240 VAC input, 50/60 Hz. I bought them as part of a pallet of computer
stuff at an auction.
I was thinking that someone on the list might be interested in a group of
identical supplies for modular charging or balancing. The voltage is
perfect for topping off 12 volt AGMs.
In a week or so, I plan to sell them on E-Bay. On E-Bay these bring at
least $10 each, often more, plus shipping. This is because they will plug
into almost any Toshiba laptop.
I thought I'd give the folks on the list the first shot at these at $10
each plus shipping. . Shipping just one costs about $8. Shipping for more
than one is a better deal, of course.
Drop me a note if you are interested.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm just worried that they'll notice I'm drawing enough to charge two cars
> and that will start them to thinking...
Hold on a second there - you think that a company that thinks inductive
charging is the only way you should charge your EV will start doing _what_?
Thinking is exactly what it sounds like they're not doing.
I don't think you'll ever hear from them again.
I doubt if they have enough data to really know exactly how much power one
EV takes.
> Last thing I WANT to do is stir up trouble with Edison, despite my
> suspicions that I would eventually prevail- based on my recent perusal of
> their program documents.
Someone has to bounce off their wrong-headedness ;-)
> But were they to come after me, it would be a good opportunity for a
> documentary film a la, "Roger and Me", however I'm chary to appear the
"Bad
> Boy" of the EV movement- seemingly stirring up trouble for trouble's sake
> and besmirching the public persona of EV drivers everywhere.
I'd sign up for that job, but my power company has completely done away with
TOU metering for new installations, and is phasing out the existing TOU
equipment.
>Anybody else in the LA area up for helping produce some EV PSA's? A while
> back I read with great interest someone's idea about the "anti-terrorism
> drug PSA" take-off where the smiling SUV drivers shout out their window to
> the camera: "I helped gas 40,000 Kurds today", etc., then in unison: "We
did
> it with our SUV's!"
[snickers] or the SUV with the bumper sticker, 'I'm supporting terrorism -
ask me how!'.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> There is a fuse and a bunch of wire involved. Victor's problem
> involved just 0.1 volt per battery.
0.1v is actually quite a substantial error. It represents a 10%
difference in state of charge betwen two 12v lead-acid batteries.
> With one or two amp balancing currents, it is easy to imagine how
> one would end up with a bias of 0.1 volt on the harness and fuses.
I agree. Which is why I am a bit surprised that Powercheq didn't take
some measures to guard against it. They should have noticed this problem
almost immediately when testing their earliest units.
The PowerCheq units work fine if you connect them directly to the
battery without sharing wires. Don't share wires and they work OK. Share
wires and all bets are off.
I also think that since a battery's voltage immediately changes under
charge/discharge, they would have to have sensed voltages with the DC/DC
off, then decided to run it (or not) for a predifined period of time,
and then shut it off so they could make a new measurement. You really
can't measure relative battery voltage while one is charging and one is
discharging and get any kind of useful sensible information on their
relative states of charge.
Each module runs independently. It is not a central system. Module
A has no idea what module B is doing. If the wiring is separate, they don't
interfere with each other.
Yes, indeed! I've seen this. They often get into states where they
"almost" synchronize as well, alternately firing in groups.
However, it isn't necessarily a fatal flaw. While it looks weird, I
didn't see that it actually caused any imbalance problems. A battery
isn't going to blink its regulator until it is essentially at the
threshold anyway.
Actually, it is a big problem. As you said earlier, 0.1 volt is a
big deal in terms of SOC. When a reg turns on, it humps as much as 7 amps
through the wiring (and the fuse.) This can be a half a volt or more on the
wire. Regulation is trashed.
What is also a problem with common wiring is safety. You have to
consider what happens if a module (or regulator) shorts out. It pops a fuse
and now twice the voltage is on the adjacent regulator. It shorts out and
blows a fuse and now THREE times the voltage is on the adjacent regulator.
They go like firecrackers when you open up a battery.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can I do something (other than giving it away :-)) to make it happen?
Victor
Yea, based on what David has talked about you can use your special AC
magic (you have found quite a system - the first one competitive for
backyard converters) to find an AC system with 187kW of power for
$6000 (if your system includes things like contactors, DC>DC, or
other needed items you can adjust your price to cover that added cost
- as both systems need them).
Honestly Victor, if money was not object I would consider both the
excellent Zilla series DC controllers and your AC systems with
master/slave inverter setup very seriously for high performance. But
its really hard to beat a $2500 Raptor1200 and a $1600 ADC 9 inch
motor when you want to rapidly depart. You have made AC much more
affordable, thank you! But at *killer* AC performance levels are
still not that affordable, sorry :-(
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote:
It's great to hear from the father of the 'Zilla himself on this
subject! There simply
aren't enough superlatives to describe my feelings on Oat's controllers he
builds...awesome seems to come close. I have 'never' had any
controller related problems
in my race car...never. I've twisted off axles, twisted off
transmission input shafts,
ruined clutches, mangled drivelines, destroyed universals, broken
too many rear ends to
list-including cracking the gears of my Ford 9 inch, melted an
armature's windings...gads,
the list could go on and on, but through it all, 'Zilla #3 keeps on
rock'n! I've also
subjected this controller to all sorts of 'Wayland' ideas, that when
I first run them by
Oat, he cringes, sweats a little, then says, oh well, it should be
able to handle it...go
for it!
Otmar wrote:
The Kostov commutator has relatively little mass and so
can overheat quickly at high current. I've seen dragsters that lifted
bars pretty quickly without ever being held at stall.
To clarify on this, Oat is talking about the stock Kostov
commutator, not a modified one,
as mine was.
[snip]
By making a spacer, I was able to move the brush rigging
towards the armature center, thus moving the brush contact area
closer to where the com
bar ends were mated to the armature's thick windings where the heat
could be wicked
away...less heat, less softening of the com bar glue.
[snip]
With the
brushes closer to the other end, there was now a wider area at the
other end of the
commutator...I had Warfield cut a shallow groove cut into them,
where they were then
wrapped with Kevlar banding...now if they tried to lift, they couldn't.
[snip]
Just thinking here, I'm not quite sure what exactly David has in
mind. If this part of your Kostov monster was done (move the brushes
and band the end of the comm) would the motor take to about 312 volts
and 600 amps from a DCP T-Rex safely? This is the same power as a
Raptor1200 at 156 volts. It would seem that that would be enuf to
more or less match the performance of the Blue Meanie (killer street
as opposed to a 1/4 mile killer). He should be able to keep alot more
stock parts, and a much lower total budget than targeting White
Zombie performance. With 336v worth of 26ah Hawkers it should be
possible to match the performance and range of the Blue Meanie,
naturally with an equally light vehicle and properly chosen gears for
the greater rpm with somewhat less torque.
Oh, does the Kostov need more banding than the comm end to take
6000rpm at 500 amps? I'm thinking great performance for about a $4000
motor and controller package (I love the Zilla, but using the top of
the line controller will put the budget over that just for the
controller - greatness costs). Then I'm thinking that this way may
offer efficiency gains and more reliability than throwing upwards of
1800 motor amps at an ADC 9 inch.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think there's a semi-news-brownout following this CARB event because
some of the EV journalist people are going to Florida this weekend for
the EV conference there. This includes some of the folks who moderate
or participate in some of the discussion lists. So, I am
cross-posting this to the ev list to sort of get the ball rolling a
little as to discussion of what went on at the CARB conference.
I'm a little wary of the ev discussion list charter which states:
>Charter:
>The EV Electric Vehicle Discussion Mailing List is intended to provide a forum to
>discuss the current state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles. It is
>*not* intended to discuss either EV appropriateness or comparisons with other
>transportation primary drive modes such as the venerable internal combustion engine.
>Those "discussions" are best relegated to the appropriate usenet newsgroup.
But I think you do present strongly for the case as to the present
state of the technology being ready, so even though you compare to
other vehicles I think it's ok.
Thanks for posting the text of your presentation. I hope others do so
as well.
I did some research tonight on the Lithium technology presently being
supported by Hydro Quebec, and, I know there must be a catch, but it
sure looks good.
jl
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:21:39 EST, you wrote:
>TO: Tom Evashenk - California Air Resource Board
>FROM: Tim L'Amoureux - Electric Vehicle Driver
>SUBJECT: ZEV Mandate
>
>The automobile/oil industry will do everything in their power to cull the
>Battery Electric Vehicle. That is a given. The "industry" states that there
>is no demand nor infrastructure to support such vehicles. I can only assume
>that the fact that every home and business has grid supplied electricity that
>would easily support any number of electric vehicle doesn't count as
>infrastructure. And does the fact that there has been no visible marketing
>and no visible advertizing of any of their MOA-required Battery Electric
>Vehicle offerings, equal no demand? It must, in their minds anyway.
>
>I gave up my GM-EV1 early this year as I was afraid that I would have been
>unable to get a replacement RAV4-EV if I waited until my lease was up. That
>proved to be true. My EV1 lease was up on December 17th and Toyota stated in
>the last quarter of this year that there were no more 2002 RAV4-EV available.
> Also stating the sad, but predicable news that in 2003, the RAV4-EV's may
>not be made available.
>
>The Auto industry emphatically states that there is no market for the battery
>powered electric vehicle and that EV's are too expensive to manufacture.
>Yet, they are in supposed hot pursuit of an allusive automobile who's fuel
>requirements are such that it is not found in any usable form on this earth.
>A fuel that must either be cracked from water through an electrolysis process
>or manufactured from fossil fuel at great cost. A fuel that to be useful,
>must be pressurized to thousands upon thousands of pounds per square inch. A
>fuel that is extremely hard and dangerous to contain and has near zero
>delivery and manufacturing facilities. In addition, the OEM's still can't
>seem to get past that pesky and very costly platinum membrane problem. Fuel
>Cell Vehicles contain many more expensive parts than do any of the battery
>electric vehicles. What am I missing here? No matter how one twists the
>logic, cost can not be the issue in patently dismissing the Battery Electric
>Vehicle when compared to the Fuel Cell Vehicle.
>
>News Item: The auto industry is marketing again. The one of the things they
>do best (or worst, depending on if you are in the ICE or the EV camp). This
>time they have admitted (however, unwittingly) that they are marketing
>vaperware. One of GM's Exec's has publically puffed that the hydrogen fuel
>cell vehicle is "our Holy Grail". Good point, sir! Since, by definition,
>the (quest for the) "Holy Grail" is "a futile effort that will never be
>obtained."
>
>Fuel Cell Vehicle near term availability: What happened, and where did those
>ten years go, does anybody remember? We were promised OEM production FCV's by
>2004, now that the auto companies Fuel Cell Vehicle programs have been
>government funded, the new estimated time of arrival is some time next
>decade. And that, at best, is a qualified maybe-next-decade approximation If
>you boys at CARB have yet to read "Taken For A Ride", it's high time you did!
>
>
>Whether the Fuel Cell Vehicle is realized, or not, there must be an interim
>step and that interim step is the mandated fully functional Battery Electric
>Vehicle, or at the very least a plug-in hybrid. The ZEV program,
>particularly the Full Function BEV requirement, must not be weakened any
>further. DO NOT reduce the already low 2% pure ZEV requirement. It must be
>held up as the required interim step to the Fuel Cell Vehicle. There is no
>viable reason not to require full function BEV's while waiting for the Fuel
>Cell Vehicle to come into actualization. Since the OEM's unanimously loath
>BEV's, their mandated requirement should exponentially speed up the
>development of FCV's. That is a win-win scenario for California. Please
>consider this.
>
>The BEV technology is available now. (The Fuel Cell Vehicle is obviously
>NOT!) That has already been proven by the successful (albeit, only
>previously available) OEM Electric Vehicles. (In case you haven't noticed,
>since CARB has backed down on the ZEV mandate so drastically the OEM's have
>terminated all their BEV programs - sans Toyota, maybe) All of us EV drivers
>have been more than satisfied with all of our current full function BEVs. In
>addition, if Lithium Polymer batteries or Lithium Ion batteries (which are
>currently powering the Nissan Altra-EV) were installed in the GM EV1, its
>range would be in excess of 200 miles per charge. Even though this extended
>range would be fantastic, a realistic minimum range for full function battery
>electric vehicles should be lowered to90 miles. Ninety miles is quite
>satisfactory for a commuter automobile. Particularly since a the final Full
>Cell same category only requires 100 miles of range and that with a near-zero
>fueling infrastructure. Where is the logic in that decision?
>
>The one thing that really frosts my buttons is the fact that GM is in the
>process of heavily marketing that obscene H2 (HumVEE-2), while there are
>overflowing waiting lists for the discontinued GM-EV1. Not to mention the
>current EV1 customers screaming to keep their leased 1996 and 1999 EV1's to
>no avail. This is simply a case of bad faith from our automobile
>manufacturers that can not and must not be ignored during the CARB ZEV
>workshop.
>
>Do not let the auto and oil special interests kill the only hope that
>California and indeed the whole United States has for truly clean cars. CARB
>has made enough concessions to these special interest professional
>polluters, and yet they still demand more. They will not stop until the
>entire ZEV mandate if officially deceased! Again this same kind of scenario
>is spelled out again and again in "Taken For A Ride".
>
>Why is CARB giving away the farm, and when is it going to stop? For God
>sake... This is California. We demand clean air and clean water and a clean
>environment all of which the ICE vehicle is continually destroying. We demand
>ZEV's NOW, not in 10 or 20 years, NOW and continually available from all
>major OEM's. Keep in mind, the auto industry cannot do without California.
>
>
>Give some thought to your children and grandchildren while you are making
>your final decisions about the future of our air, water and environment. In
>addition, we can never forget that our outrageous addiction to frivolous oil
>consumption solely sponsored the 9-11 attacks. We paid in oil for that
>entire event, lock, stock and BARREL! And more of the same has been promised
>by our enemies in the near future. The fuel cell vehicle will not come soon
>enough (if ever) to help alleviate that threat, but the Battery Electric
>Vehicle, if produced (and aggressively marketed) in quantity, just could.
>California and only California can make this happen. Dammit CARB, get some
>balls, and make this happen!
>
>Tim L'Amoureux - former EV1 driver - current RAV4-EV driver
>3264 North Knoll Drive
>Los Angeles, CA 90068-1518
>V: (323) 851-3264
>F: (323) 851-6751
>e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just got my CA clean air vehicle stickers. It says on the back place the
large stickers in a clearly visable position on the rear quarter panel on
each side of the vehicle, behind the center of the wheel well, with the
State Seal in the up position. Do not attach the large stickers to a window
or any part of the bumper.
It does not say to attach permenently. I was thinking that embossing the
sticker on magnetic material and taking it on and off every time I needed it
would save the paint on the quarter panel. I don't think there is enough
metal in the bumper to do this for the small sticker. Anybody else done
this. Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The only thing that comes close to your request is an
electrolytic
zinc regenerator. It plugs into the wall and
regenerates spent
zinc fuel cell oxide back into zinc. The availability
of these is
very tenuous, but keep your eyes open. Maybe in the
distant
future...
Anybody using Zinc air. Seems a lot of tests are going on. I am still
impressed by the 10 mile run on one charge 5 years ago. Lawrence Rhodes...I
don't need big amps to do errands........................
Metallic Power put several of their stationary units into a Solectria
Force earlier this year and got about 150 miles range out of it plus
were able to refuel it via hoses in something like less than 30
minutes. Considering the units were never designed for vehicular
uses, nor were they designed to refuel (They are made to regenerate
the zinc onboard instead) I think it's damned impressive. They've
also converted a Toro greenskeeping machine and a Cushman utility
truck.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't know there was any advertising going on at all.
UCIrvine took possession of one, and another one by
the city of LA yesterday, according to the Calstart
website.
--- BORTEL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did anyone notice the big two page add in the Wall
> Street Journal this week for the new Honda fuel cell
> car that is suppose to be available now for fleet
> customers.
>
> Dan
>
=====
Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
____
/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are
you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just think of it, since a GEM cannot exceed 25mph, it would take almost 1.5
hours at full speed before to drive full range. That's a lot of driving at
slow speeds.
BTW - great writeup in the latest EV News evaluating NEVs. All of them had a
top speed just under 25mph and most of there ranges were more like 1/2-3/4
of advertised range. Still, the minimum EV I'd consider would be a City EV.
Might consider a NEV when I'm 80 years old, but otherwise they're a waste.
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Peddy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 11:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EVs on TVs
GEM's
Most people buying the GEM will not go even 20 miles per charge. They are
designed to drive around golf courses and on plants. It will be rare if
they need the full 35 mile range. A positive thing I see about the GEM or
Fords THINK is getting massive amounts of small, inefficient, non-smoged,
polluting golf carts out of commission.
Moving from many smog sources to one efficient power plant is a good thing.
Chad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> [snickers] or the SUV with the bumper sticker, 'I'm
> supporting terrorism - ask me how!'.
I have some of these stickers (I had a batch of 100 custom
made), and will send a few to anyone who will _use_ them
free of charge.
Send SASE to me at:
1633 Etna Street
Saint Paul, MN 55106
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Dec 2002 at 18:30, Jim Coate wrote:
> Rather then trying to get major networks to show something, what if
> produced a variety of options (video, voice, and print) for local EVers and
> EVA chapters to give to their local access stations, college radio stations,
> etc.?
It's a start, but don't be too optimistic about the results.
I work in the media. And to be blunt, those stations' audience is so tiny
it's unmeasureable. Even if they showed or played or read our PSAs once a
day for 6 months, the number of people those ads would reach would be only
slightly to the north of zero.
Sure, the NPR stations have significant audiences. But very few of them
accept and air PSAs any more unless you pay them to!
But there is a way to get on them. If your local EV group can get involved
frequently in activities that make good news features, such as human
interest stories ("Podunk EV Club donates customized NEV to local disabled
veteran"), or cooperative ventures with other nonprofits and environmental
groups on hot issues ("Podunk EV Club joins local Air Conservation
Committee, will monitor Acme Chemical Corporation's Emissions"), then you
may be able to get ^news coverage^. A five minute story in which your group
is mentioned 6-7 times, aired on your local public station's morning news
program, will reach more listeners than a spot aired 100 times on the
college station -- the one that will read any PSA to an average audience of
a few dozen.
Or, if you're a good writer, call the station and volunteer to do
commentaries. Listen to the "civilian" commentators on Weekend Edition for
examples on how to write and what to write about. Or show them your
credentials and offer to act as a resource on local environmental issues.
All it costs is your time to do the interview.
As for public access cable, I don't know how your public access channels are
perceived, but my impression of them has been that most people take them,
and the programs they show, as a joke. That's a shame, because they have
great potential -- but very few people watch.
I think that plastering your EV with decals and driving it all over town,
handing out flyers, would have a greater effect. If nothing else, it proves
conclusively that EVs work. And it's free, except for the relatively small
cost of printing the decals and flyers.
Radio and television PSAs would be better than nothing, true. But unless
the production cost were essentially zero, or unless you can find a way to
get the mainstream media to air them (very unlikely), the cost per person
reached by them would be astronomical.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
