EV Digest 2531
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Charge across the Rockies, chargin' along
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: New EV Project
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New EV Project
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: cut-n-crimp
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Tiger Truck nEVs
by "Crabb, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT - What means obsession...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) New Electric Mower
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: New Electric Mower
by Eric Penne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) LESS THAN ZERO
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: New Electric Mower
by Eric Penne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: LESS THAN ZERO
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: New Electric Mower
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 9:18 AM
Subject: Charge across the Rockies
> I had a call last night from Ken Norwick, who converted a Saturn
> a couple of years ago in Calgary. He is keen to launch an EV
> expedition to Vancouver for Rev2003. "A Road Trip, like we did
> in college, expecpt without the pot", he said. I went to a
> different college, where Road Trips were not a tradition, but I'm
> thinking "goin' to Mardi Gras". Ken is planning to get a 10KW
> charger on a trailer, either pulling it behind the EV or putting
> it in a chase vehicle that would also have a tow dolly as a
> fallback. I sorta had the idea of cutting apart my daughter's
> old Accord into a pusher trailer, like Sharkey's VW pusher. But
> the reality is that I've a lot of work to finish the restoration
> of the Citroen, which is running far from street legal, and the
> day job leaves me little time to work on it.
>
> Does anybody have experience going cross country with opportunity
> charging? Crumbs, I'd need between 25 and 30 charges to get the
> 1200 km (740 miles) from here to Vancouver.
>
Hi Mike an' EVerybody:
Sounds like fun! Like a transcontental train trip, it is something to
do IF yur NOT in a hurry, and don't care when yu get there<g>! But it would
be alota fun, though. Have given it serious thought, AFTER I retire. I did
it last summer in a gas rig, CT to Wouldburn. Three weeks vacation wasn't
enough, to visit EVerybody I did, and sight see.
Often thought if the List grows big enough to have an EV "Corridor" of
guyz on List that would have nice outside 24/7 Outlets, especially 240 volt.
I have, let me know what PLUG to have ready. That ya could go to these
points, with a E scooter to buzz around while charging. It is a BIG country,
be tricky to have places EVery 50-70 miles apart, like across Montana or the
Decodas', or Hell! New Jersey, or PA, not a hotbed of EV activity. They may
be some Un Listed folks out there, though? We ALMOST, have enough guyz
between NY and Boston in the New England EAA, to do it. In the summer, when
batteries give yu what you paid for, in juice.
EV touring could become fashionable, like Trolley touring a century ago,
when gas is non existant or too pricy to drive gas rigs any distance, or our
ice cars wear ration stickers on the windshield. You WW2 vets know what I
mean, there. Restaurants, motels and tourist attractions would brag about,
not how many pools or tennis courts they had, but how lavish their wiring,
charging facilities, were. EVen, Horrors! Dump Charging, manned by
knowledgeable techie types! 24/ 7. Once we standardize on a dump charge plug
on our EV's So you could charge in LA or Peoria, but be happy with NEMA Home
Depot stuff,for longer charges. A 120 volt outlet is pretty common in US and
Canada. Mexico, too? Dont know, never been there.
In my Perfect World, this would come to pass, maybe sooner if our
friends at OPEC turn off the gas. Like if we go to war with Iraq? Think of
the money it cost so far for military buildup towards Iraq , had been spent
on battery research? Bringing one to market, as well as a car to put it in.
OOPs THAT'S been done. EV-1 would be a good home for that cell.And Think.And
all our stuff.
Thinking outloud, again.
Bob.....outlets already in place
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
>> suppose you string a wire through a 20' piece of plastic tubing...
> A water heater is a possibility, except there isn't room for much
> over 1/4" tubing.
That's all I was expecting; something the size of 1/4" OD acquarium
tubing, for example.
> Some "flat" tube (yeah, oxymoron there) would probably be needed.
The wire inside would keep it from going flat (kinking) around corners.
> Just use a standard (on the small side) water heater element in a
> tiny tank for the heat.
The problem with one central heater is that the water cools off as it
goes along the tube. All the heat is given up in the first few feet,
unless the flow rate is pretty high. With the heating wire inside the
tubing, the heat is distributed along its length. It should have about
the same surface temperature everywhere.
> This would be another possibility to try, though I am getting
> tired of removing/installing the batteries.
Maybe you wouldn't need to remove them. Can the tubing be threaded in
with the batteries in place?
> I'm testing running the self-regulating heat cable off the pack
> voltage (156V nominal). It seems to draw about .8 A at 165V after
> it comes up to temp. That's 130 watts of heat, about 65 per
> compartment. The battery compartment sides/bottom are pretty well
> insulated, so I think that should be enough heat.
That would be low around here (Minnesota) but might be enough for you.
> After 3 hours the batteries were only up to 66 deg (from 45
> ambient). We'll see what they are like in the morning.
Yes; batteries do have a lot of thermal mass. It can take days for them
to stabilize at a new temperature.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> For me the key really is going to be to build the bike first using the small
> batteries that I already have then gather some empirical data. So far
Good plan.
-snip-
>
> I am also a little unsure of how extreme I want the bike to look. I really
> like the look of it now, as a classic street bike. If I could keep that
> original look and still make my commute that would be ideal. Of course with
That's fine, but realize that stock motorcycles have REALLY bad
aerodynamics. At 60 mph a stock (unfaired) motorcycle requires almost
as much power as a Geo Metro. Putting one of those Wind Jammer style
fairings on actually makes it worse. To get better aerodynamics you
need a small, thin, streamlined fairing. Something like a sport bike
with all the openings covered.
Better would be a "Dustbin" fairing, these are the type that enclose the
front wheel in the main fairing.
Best is a full streamlined fairing that encloses the bike AND rider.
> tailpipes especially if I could put them to some clever use. I think a
> small battery pack on board and a real motorcycle trailer with a larger pack
> in it could accomplish this. If I went this route I might even be able to
> use floodeds in the trailer.
A trailer adds drag, you are now talking about needing MORE power than
something like a Metro. Plan on using a bigger motor.
> There is still one other big unknown for me, and that is if I can make the
> bike go freeway speeds on 48V. My original plan had been for 72V, but when
> I started looking at the price of controllers it was clear that I could get
> a 48V controller for much cheaper.
A stock motorcycle with no trailer and no fairing will require about 6
hp to go 60 mph. At 48V with GP13's and a 6.7" ADC that works out to
roughly 150 amps.
Normally I'd say you need to worry about overheating the controller with
that much current going through it (you did say you were using a 275A
Curtis?), however the little GP13 Hawkers can only produce this much
current for about 2 minutes so the controller should be OK.
Unless you are planning on buddy pairing the Hawkers? If so that will
give you about 5 minutes of ride time, you might need to add some extra
cooling fans for the controller.
If you are willing to ride the freeways at only 50 mph, that cuts your
power requirements almost in half. You'll get about 5 minutes ride time
from a single string and almost 10 minutes from buddy paired GP13s. The
current will be down around 85 amps which the Curtis should be able to
handle without much problem.
Pulling a trailer loaded with flooded batteries will probably double
your power requirements. The controller is far to small to handle this
kind of power load and if you plan on riding for more than 10-15 minutes
you will need to worry about the ADC overheating (It's only rated for
about 100 amps continuous).
Note: These calculations were all for steady speed on level ground with
no wind. Acceleration, hills, and headwinds will all increase the power
requirements. Even a shallow climb (3% grade) can double the power
requirements.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:12 AM 1/13/2003 -0800, Lee Hart stated:
> After 3 hours the batteries were only up to 66 deg (from 45
> ambient). We'll see what they are like in the morning.
Yes; batteries do have a lot of thermal mass. It can take days for them
to stabilize at a new temperature.
This morning (after another 12 hours) the batteries were up to 80 deg F.
The cable was down to .5A of draw.
I will need to figure out some way of switching the heat cable off during
charging - as I'm pretty sure the extra current draw would confuse the Zivan.
Though I may do the work to install the PFC-20 I have, then a bit more work
to have it switch to "float" mode (to power the heat cable) after charging
completes.
Then I need to figure out if the hot batteries will actually get me to work
again....
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good idea. It forces the temp to be uniform. Sort of a roll your own
hydronic heating system. I can think of two things that would work against
John in this instance, though.
The first is the worry of electrically isolating the liquid from the wire.
A small leakage current could trip GFI's and cause other problems. Using
distilled water would help minimize the conductivity of the liquid.
Ensuring that the pump is entirely non-metallic would probably eliminate the
problem.
The second is that he is so limited on space he probably doesn't have room.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 12:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
I was thinking about John Lussmyer's battery heating problem (wants
higher temperature, no room for a thermostat), and had a rather odd idea
that might be just the thing.
Suppose you get some insulated resistance wire. Let's say (for the sake
of argument) that 20 feet of it happens to draw 200 watts when plugged
into your AC power, and that this amount of heat is more than enough to
warm your batteries to the desired temperature.
You could just string this wire around your batteries. But without a
thermostat, it would overheat the batteries. If you add a thermostat, it
would be blind luck to find a suitable place for it. Most likely, some
parts of the wire would seriously overheat, and others would underheat
the batteries.
But, suppose you string that wire through a 20' piece of plastic tubing.
Put a watertight "T" fitting on each end, with the electrical
connections coming out the side, and hose fittings on the end. Use a
small pump to circulate water through the tubing. If the flow rate is
reasonable, all the water in the tubing is at relatively the same
temperature. A single thermostat, located in the small reservoir
containing the pump (the windshield washer fluid?) would control its
temperature. And every battery that tubing wraps around will be pushed
to that same temperature.
I *think* such a system could be made very compact, simple, and
reliable, and would hold all batteries at the same temperature.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PZEV: No emissions with the car parked and the engine off. Thanks a lot,
I have one of those already.
A search of the FAQs for All Topics and All Sub-Topics for PZEV came up
with exactly 1 hit: the RAV-4 sorry sucker letter.
- GT
PS: Michael Hoskinson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] beat me to the PZEV "joke" in
reality unfunny...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Donnaway [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:47 AM
> To: 'Bruce EVangel Parmenter'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
>
>
> The RAV4 EV FAQ page mentions an upcoming "Partial ZEV"
> Camry. What the heck is a PZEV...could it (not likely) be a
> plug-in hybrid? A search on toyota.com yielded no other
> mention of PZEV. Jay Donnaway RAV4 EV (Electric Vehicle) -
> Toyota's Environmental Commitment
> <<...OLE_Obj...>> Question Does the end of the RAV4 EV retail
> program mean Toyota is abandoning its commitment to build
> environmentally advanced vehicles? <<...OLE_Obj...>> Answer
> Quite the contrary, Toyota remains committed to expanding our
> lineup of environmental vehicles. This commitment is most
> clearly reflected in our development and expansion of
> hybrid-electric technology: a no-compromise, cost effective
> solution for customers who want high fuel economy and very
> low emissions. Already, our environmental leader, the Toyota
> Prius, has sold over 40,000 units in the US since its launch
> in June 2000, and sales are growing. At the 2003 Detroit Auto
> Show, we announced that the new Lexus RX-330 luxury sport
> utility vehicle will be available with a hybrid drivetrain
> within the next 2 years, with more announcements to follow in
> the coming year. In addition to hybrids, Toyota will be
> selling PZEV (partial zero-emission vehicles) Camrys in
> California beginning in early 2003.
>
> At the same time, Toyota has not abandoned its pursuit of
> offering customers zero emission vehicles. On December 2,
> 2002, Toyota leased two hydrogen fuel cell hybrid vehicles to
> the University of California, Davis and the University of
> California, Irvine. While still in the very early stages of
> commercialization, Toyota firmly believes that fuel cell
> technology - built upon the hybrid drivetrains available
> today - will have a large part to play in the passenger cars
> and trucks of tomorrow.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:48 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
> >
> > See http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RAV4_EV/message/3917
> >
> > -
> http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
> >
> <http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/
> images/rav4e
> > v2.jpg>
> >
> > Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
> > Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
> > will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
> > California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on
> the RAV4 EV
> > internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
> >
> > Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
> > purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer
> satisfaction is our
> > highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning
> a Toyota
> > electric vehicle will continue to be positive. We
> understand you may
> > be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
> Please be
> > assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers capable of
> > servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan area in
> > California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period of your
> > vehicles.
> >
> > We also understand that many of our customers and
> supporters may have
> > questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production
> and sales.
> > The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
> > many of these questions. We plan to update this list
> periodically as
> > new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
> >
> > Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2003-01-13 at 10:38, George Tylinski wrote:
> PZEV: No emissions with the car parked and the engine off. Thanks a lot,
> I have one of those already.
-snip-
> PS: Michael Hoskinson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] beat me to the PZEV "joke" in
> reality unfunny...
Umm, dude...that's not a joke. That is exactly what they mean by PZEV.
"Toyota announced that it will soon begin selling Partial Zero Emission
Vehicle (PZEV) designated Camrys in California. In addition to super low
exhaust emissions, the Camrys emit practically no vapors from the gas
tank and fuel system. You can spot the greener Camrys by the leaf
insignia on the rear. "
It's not even a hybrid.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PZEV: No emissions with the car parked and the engine off. Thanks a lot,
I have one of those already.
A search of the FAQs for All Topics and All Sub-Topics for PZEV came up
with exactly 1 hit: the RAV-4 sorry sucker letter.
- GT
It seems PZEV is just (hot) gas:
WardsAuto.com, Oct 18 2002
...
CHICAGO - The all-new '03 Honda Accord, fitted with the auto maker's
new 2.4L SOHC I-4 mated to a 5-speed automatic transmission, earns
the partial zero-emissions vehicle (PZEV) rating in California, Honda
sources say here.
The new Accord line went on sale last month, and Honda says all
4-cyl., 5-speed automatic versions sold in California will earn PZEV
credits.
To qualify for PZEV classification, all emissions control elements
will be warranted for 15 years or 150,000 miles (242,000 km) in
California, where low-sulfur gasoline is available.
All 4-cyl., automatic transmission variants of the all-new '03 Accord sold in California will earn PZEV designation.
The same vehicle sold in the other 49 states will retain the standard
three-year/36,000-mile (57,935-km) warranty except for the catalytic
converter and engine-management computer, which are warranted for
eight years/80,000 miles (128,744 km)...
And also: http://www.fleet-central.com/af/passnews_c.cfm?rank=1793
...
Compared to the nationwide Tier I emissions standard the SULEV
standard requires: 97 per-cent fewer hydrocarbon emissions, 76
percent less carbon monoxide, 97 percent less NOx, and 90 percent
less particulate matter. PZEV certification also requires a
demonstration of "zero" gasoline evaporative emissions, virtually
eliminating evaporative emissions from the vehicle's fuel system.
Im-provements to meet this challenging standard require upgrading
practically the entire evaporative system, plus the addition of
several new and unique components.
Finally, a vehicle certified as PZEV must provide warranty coverage
to ensure that the vehicle will meet these stringent requirements for
an extended lifetime of 15 years or 150,000 miles.
...
Funny, I don't see any limitations on Co2.
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The space below him is just wasted. Quite a few batteries could go under
him with no extra room needed. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: New EV Project
> >My next project is to build a recumbent around a battery box(long and
> >skinny). This design uses only 2 hp to attain 60 mph. Look Ma I have a
> >battery box and it's not being used.
> >http://www.voidstar.com/bff/images/recped.jpg This is what I want to make
> >next. I believe I can make this little demon go 100 miles at Freeway
> >speeds. Lawrence Rhodes... I am sure Frank the metal god could weld
this
> >up in one day...................
>
> Ah! Julian Bond's Feet Forward motorcycle site. I love that picture.
> The guy looks so goofy/happy. I want half the stuff pictured on that
> site. Especially a Voyager or Quasar. Oh, well, can't have everything.
> --
>
>
> Auf wiedersehen!
>
> ______________________________________________________
> "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
>
> "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
> of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
> women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
>
> "..No."
>
> "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
>
> -Real Genius
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just guessing but it might be a CNG Camry. They however have already been
manufactured. Lawrence Rhodes............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Donnaway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Bruce EVangel Parmenter'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:47 AM
Subject: RE: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
> The RAV4 EV FAQ page mentions an upcoming "Partial ZEV" Camry. What the
> heck is a PZEV...could it (not likely) be a plug-in hybrid?
> A search on toyota.com yielded no other mention of PZEV.
> Jay Donnaway
> RAV4 EV (Electric Vehicle) - Toyota's Environmental Commitment
> <<...OLE_Obj...>> Question Does the end of the RAV4 EV retail program mean
> Toyota is abandoning its commitment to build environmentally advanced
> vehicles? <<...OLE_Obj...>> Answer Quite the contrary, Toyota remains
> committed to expanding our lineup of environmental vehicles. This
commitment
> is most clearly reflected in our development and expansion of
> hybrid-electric technology: a no-compromise, cost effective solution for
> customers who want high fuel economy and very low emissions. Already, our
> environmental leader, the Toyota Prius, has sold over 40,000 units in the
US
> since its launch in June 2000, and sales are growing. At the 2003 Detroit
> Auto Show, we announced that the new Lexus RX-330 luxury sport utility
> vehicle will be available with a hybrid drivetrain within the next 2
years,
> with more announcements to follow in the coming year. In addition to
> hybrids, Toyota will be selling PZEV (partial zero-emission vehicles)
Camrys
> in California beginning in early 2003.
>
> At the same time, Toyota has not abandoned its pursuit of offering
customers
> zero emission vehicles. On December 2, 2002, Toyota leased two hydrogen
fuel
> cell hybrid vehicles to the University of California, Davis and the
> University of California, Irvine. While still in the very early stages of
> commercialization, Toyota firmly believes that fuel cell technology -
built
> upon the hybrid drivetrains available today - will have a large part to
play
> in the passenger cars and trucks of tomorrow.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:48 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
> >
> > See
> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RAV4_EV/message/3917
> >
> > -
> > http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
> >
<http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/images/rav4e
> > v2.jpg>
> >
> > Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
> > Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
> > will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
> > California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on the RAV4 EV
> > internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
> >
> > Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
> > purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer satisfaction is
> > our highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning a
> > Toyota electric vehicle will continue to be positive. We understand
> > you may be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
> > Please be assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers
> > capable of servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan
> > area in California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period
> > of your vehicles.
> >
> > We also understand that many of our customers and supporters may have
> > questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production and sales.
> > The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
> > many of these questions. We plan to update this list periodically as
> > new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
> >
> > Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
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--- Begin Message ---
"David Roden (Akron OH USA)" wrote:
>
>
> But when a person chooses an oversized vehicle as a daily commuter, and
> doesn't really need all that extra space, that person increases the danger
> to us with no real practical benefit for society. Quite the opposite.
If everyone would live as responsibly as you, we'd have a perfect
society a long ago.
> First, this person is using more than his share of fuel and contributing
> more than his share of grime to the atmosphere. Yet the only place he pays
> more for this is in the minimal taxes on gasoline.
People take freedom of choice literally - private freedom to
choose without analyzing society benefits of that choice. Unless
the system you propose is forced on people (which won't happen as
they won't vote for it), the change will happen only when most will
think about society first and their ego and wish (right or wrong)
- second. In other words - never.
I use to live in society where public benefit was brainwashed in
as more important than personal. It may have been done in totally
distorted way, but idea rubbed in for 70 years (and those disagreed
got punished) has gotten this society nowhere. In fact it has fallen
apart. Why?
If it's public (not MINE or YOURS) you won't care about it
as much as about your OWN. You can't turn off people's ego or greed
of wish (right!) to brag about unneeded SUV as you turn off a charger.
You have to be responsible, yes, but not to the point of utopia.
I'm sure, you realize that sad fact David, don't you?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You can look around for cheaper alternatives, but KTA and Wilde
> EVolutions sell battery heaters that will do exactly what you want without
> the hassle of re-inventing the wheel yourself.
I also have heaters which work fine on my optimas and take practically
no extra space. Available to anyone, $9.95 a piece, look on my site.
If your space is *really* limited it may be a good alternative.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> I was thinking about John Lussmyer's battery heating problem (wants
> higher temperature, no room for a thermostat), and had a rather odd idea
> that might be just the thing.
> But, suppose you string that wire through a 20' piece of plastic tubing.
> Put a watertight "T" fitting on each end, with the electrical
...
Such a system (similar) is implemented in Think city.
Victor
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--- Begin Message ---
Batteries now come as 'universal posts' unless you pay extra
and wait.
I assume you mean "L" posts from Trojan? Last I heard, Trojan didn't want
to do "L" posts at all, so I guess this is an improvement. Last I heard,
US Battery would supply them by special order, so there was a short wait,
but no extra charge. We just had 96V worth delivered here. Took about a
week, no extra charge. They even supplied the nuts and bolts, and the
battery lifter.
These are a funky half-n-half wannbe battery
posts. They aren't quite a round post because the center is
cut away to be flat with a hole through it.
This is not a true universal post, then. This is what US Battery calls a
dual purpose S post.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
looks like max speed = 23 MPH
http://tigertruck.com/810elcspec_lsvtk.htm
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 12:51 AM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Tiger Truck nEVs
> >
> >
> >Does anyone have any experience with this company
> >and its nEVs http://tigertruck.com
> >
> >Looking at the specifications it is a direct drive
> >with a 72 VDC system. It did not specify a top
> >speed, but I assume it is a sub-highway design.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >=====
> >' ____
> >~/__|o\__
> >'@----- @'---(=
> >. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> >. EV List Editor & RE newswires
> >. (originator of the above ASCII art)
> >=====
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> >http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
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--- Begin Message ---
Today when I came to work and my boss asked me "How are you",
I replied "At 95% SOC"... Really, not on purpose!
On my mind on the scale 0 to 100 it meant very good, but judging
by the expression on his face I realized I have to think about
something other than EV when talking to a boss...
Victor
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys,
Just saw an ad on TV for this little baby...
http://www.neutonlawnmowers.com
It's really neat. It is an electric mower with a swapable battery, and
attachements to be either a bagger, discharge, or mulcher.
It also has a front attachment that is a weed-whacker or edger.
I haven't looked at the web site in detail yet, but if it's half as good as the
press, I'm getting a new mower.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That mower is identical to my mower. I got it from
http://www.countryhomeproducts.com a little over 2 years ago. It has a
24V 7AH SLA battery in it. It also has a very weak charger that takes
way too long to recharge from about 50%. I use it to mow my small lawn
in the city. Extremely easy to maintain and modify if you like. I
want to put a bigger battery in it. It looks like there is extra room.
If you take the battery lid off you can stack batts on top of each
other.
I had a recall on mine that said the relay would stick on. It did and
so did the replacement controller. The beauty of it was that I just
did a direct wire from the battery to the motor to mow my lawn for 2
weeks until the 3rd controller came in. The battery can be charged
separately from the mower so when I needed to shut the mower of I just
removed the battery and charged it.
I leave the battery in my basement on a shelf during the winter and
charge it up every month.
My Lot is 50' X 142' with about half used for concrete driveway, house,
and detached garage.
Never the less, you can buy the mower portion now. I'm not sure about
the other attachments.
Eric
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Just saw an ad on TV for this little baby...
>
> http://www.neutonlawnmowers.com
>
> It's really neat. It is an electric mower with a swapable battery,
> and
> attachements to be either a bagger, discharge, or mulcher.
>
> It also has a front attachment that is a weed-whacker or edger.
>
> I haven't looked at the web site in detail yet, but if it's half as
> good as the
> press, I'm getting a new mower.
>
> James
>
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- Begin Message ---
LESS THAN ZERO
Under California's zero-emissions vehicle (ZEV) regulation, 2003 was
supposed to be the year that thousands of nonpolluting cars hit the
road -- but on Friday, the state's air quality officials proposed
amending the regulation to postpone the deadline by a decade. The
proposal seemed to be an acknowledgement by the California Air
Resources Board that the technology does not yet exist to make the
cars attractive and affordable. Although cars are getting cleaner,
especially in California, there are still no competitively priced,
emissions-free models on the market. The proposed changes would
allow automakers to put off ZEV requirements until 2012, but require
them to produce more hybrids and super-clean gas-powered vehicles
between 2005 and 2011. Both environmentalists and car manufacturers
have expressed dissatisfaction with the board's suggestions; the
former want the original ZEV requirements and deadlines maintained,
and the latter want them scrapped altogether.
straight to the source: Los Angeles Times, Gary Polakovic, 11 Jan 2003
<http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me-emissions11jan11,0,4813006.story?
coll=la%2Dnews%2Dscience>
only in Grist: Hybrid vigor -- the Bush administration embraces
hybrid technology -- animation by Mark Fiore in our Soapbox section
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/soapbox/fiore111502.asp?source=daily>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:30 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
I also have heaters which work fine on my optimas and take practically
no extra space. Available to anyone, $9.95 a piece, look on my site.
But do they have any temp control, or are they just X watt output at all times?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It looks like country home products is also carrying the nueton. Mine
is an older model without the attachment option.
Eric
--- Eric Penne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That mower is identical to my mower. I got it from
> http://www.countryhomeproducts.com a little over 2 years ago. It has
> a
> 24V 7AH SLA battery in it. It also has a very weak charger that
> takes
> way too long to recharge from about 50%. I use it to mow my small
> lawn
> in the city. Extremely easy to maintain and modify if you like. I
> want to put a bigger battery in it. It looks like there is extra
> room.
> If you take the battery lid off you can stack batts on top of each
> other.
>
> I had a recall on mine that said the relay would stick on. It did
> and
> so did the replacement controller. The beauty of it was that I just
> did a direct wire from the battery to the motor to mow my lawn for 2
> weeks until the 3rd controller came in. The battery can be charged
> separately from the mower so when I needed to shut the mower of I
> just
> removed the battery and charged it.
>
> I leave the battery in my basement on a shelf during the winter and
> charge it up every month.
>
> My Lot is 50' X 142' with about half used for concrete driveway,
> house,
> and detached garage.
>
> Never the less, you can buy the mower portion now. I'm not sure
> about
> the other attachments.
>
> Eric
>
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Just saw an ad on TV for this little baby...
> >
> > http://www.neutonlawnmowers.com
> >
> > It's really neat. It is an electric mower with a swapable battery,
> > and
> > attachements to be either a bagger, discharge, or mulcher.
> >
> > It also has a front attachment that is a weed-whacker or edger.
> >
> > I haven't looked at the web site in detail yet, but if it's half as
> > good as the
> > press, I'm getting a new mower.
> >
> > James
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
=====
Eric Penne - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One nation, under God, INDIVISIBLE.
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- Begin Message ---
You could see this coming! Honda and Toyota cancel their electrics,
and everyone is jumping on the hybrid bandwagon.
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> LESS THAN ZERO
> Under California's zero-emissions vehicle (ZEV) regulation, 2003
> was
> supposed to be the year that thousands of nonpolluting cars hit the
> road -- but on Friday, the state's air quality officials proposed
> amending the regulation to postpone the deadline by a decade. The
> proposal seemed to be an acknowledgement by the California Air
> Resources Board that the technology does not yet exist to make the
> cars attractive and affordable. Although cars are getting cleaner,
> especially in California, there are still no competitively priced,
> emissions-free models on the market. The proposed changes would
> allow automakers to put off ZEV requirements until 2012, but
> require
> them to produce more hybrids and super-clean gas-powered vehicles
> between 2005 and 2011. Both environmentalists and car
> manufacturers
> have expressed dissatisfaction with the board's suggestions; the
> former want the original ZEV requirements and deadlines maintained,
> and the latter want them scrapped altogether.
>
> straight to the source: Los Angeles Times, Gary Polakovic, 11 Jan
> 2003
>
<http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me-emissions11jan11,0,4813006.story?
> coll=la%2Dnews%2Dscience>
>
> only in Grist: Hybrid vigor -- the Bush administration embraces
> hybrid technology -- animation by Mark Fiore in our Soapbox section
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/soapbox/fiore111502.asp?source=daily>
>
>
=====
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- Begin Message ---
Not trying to be controversial, but what if the person is very
valuable to society?
For example, I don't begrudge the President driving around in an 8000
pound (or whatever it is) limo.
For me personally, I used to drive light, tinfoil cars (VW Bug, Fiat
850, Ford Fiesta, Hyundai Excel). If I died, realistically, it didn't
make much difference to society. Now that I am a parent, however, my
death would be hard for my children and spouse. I feel I have to be
more careful with my life now... I even speed alot less than I used
to. :) Once the kids are 18 or so, I'm looking forward to getting
that Corvette I've wanted all my life -- it won't matter as much at
that point if an SUV runs over me.
Maybe this'll become a new question for ethics class -- should
parents drive bigger, safer cars at the expense of more pollution
that would shorten elderly average lifespan by xx years? Or smaller
cars that would shorten average lifespan by yy years because more
children were getting killed in car accidents? What should xx and yy
be?
> "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" wrote:
> > But when a person chooses an oversized vehicle as a daily
> commuter, and
> > doesn't really need all that extra space, that person increases
> the danger
> > to us with no real practical benefit for society. Quite the
> > opposite.
> > First, this person is using more than his share of fuel and
> contributing
> > more than his share of grime to the atmosphere. Yet the only
> place he pays
> > more for this is in the minimal taxes on gasoline.
=====
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- Begin Message ---
According to their web site their battery is a 9ah. They also have a "special"
going on. Act now and you get the rear bagger and the trimmer free. You can
also pick up a spare battery for 79.95.
James
Quoting Eric Penne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> That mower is identical to my mower. I got it from
> http://www.countryhomeproducts.com a little over 2 years ago. It has a
> 24V 7AH SLA battery in it. It also has a very weak charger that takes
> way too long to recharge from about 50%. I use it to mow my small lawn
> in the city. Extremely easy to maintain and modify if you like. I
> want to put a bigger battery in it. It looks like there is extra room.
> If you take the battery lid off you can stack batts on top of each
> other.
>
> I had a recall on mine that said the relay would stick on. It did and
> so did the replacement controller. The beauty of it was that I just
> did a direct wire from the battery to the motor to mow my lawn for 2
> weeks until the 3rd controller came in. The battery can be charged
> separately from the mower so when I needed to shut the mower of I just
> removed the battery and charged it.
>
> I leave the battery in my basement on a shelf during the winter and
> charge it up every month.
>
> My Lot is 50' X 142' with about half used for concrete driveway, house,
> and detached garage.
>
> Never the less, you can buy the mower portion now. I'm not sure about
> the other attachments.
>
> Eric
>
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Just saw an ad on TV for this little baby...
> >
> > http://www.neutonlawnmowers.com
> >
> > It's really neat. It is an electric mower with a swapable battery,
> > and
> > attachements to be either a bagger, discharge, or mulcher.
> >
> > It also has a front attachment that is a weed-whacker or edger.
> >
> > I haven't looked at the web site in detail yet, but if it's half as
> > good as the
> > press, I'm getting a new mower.
> >
> > James
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
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