EV Digest 2532
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: cut-n-crimp
by Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) New Corbins
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: New Corbins
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New Corbins
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: New Corbins
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: (OT) EV-1, Steve Tanner@ vbiz Iink
by Joseph Vaughn-Perling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New EV Project
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: cut-n-crimp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Battery heaters
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery heaters
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: cut-n-crimp
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery heaters
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery heaters
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery heaters
by "VanDerWal, Peter MSgt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New EV Project
by "john kangas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: cut-n-crimp
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Battery heaters
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New EV Project
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery heaters
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New Corbins
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New EV Project
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Battery heaters (was: Evercel MB80's won't fit!)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: cut-n-crimp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV digest 2531
by William Korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: cut-n-crimp
by "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Shari:
I am a bit confused. USBMC supplies any post you order. There is a BIG
difference between our "L" posts and the "S" "wannabe" posts you describe.
We just supply what the customer orders and all of the pictures of the
posts we offer are on our spec. sheet. BTW, there is large "L" and a
small "L" available also. Both of the "L" posts are quite different from
the "S" post which is preferred by some applications. Trojan's only
offer is the low profile, cheap, stud post for golf cars only which
cannot carry the sustained relatively high currents required by EV's,
without melting down.
Sincerely
Nawaz Qureshi
Electro Automotive wrote:
Batteries now come as 'universal posts' unless you pay extra
and wait.
I assume you mean "L" posts from Trojan? Last I heard, Trojan didn't
want to do "L" posts at all, so I guess this is an improvement. Last
I heard, US Battery would supply them by special order, so there was a
short wait, but no extra charge. We just had 96V worth delivered
here. Took about a week, no extra charge. They even supplied the
nuts and bolts, and the battery lifter.
These are a funky half-n-half wannbe battery
posts. They aren't quite a round post because the center is
cut away to be flat with a hole through it.
This is not a true universal post, then. This is what US Battery
calls a dual purpose S post.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone
831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
36 watts, these are just a heating elements. You supply (or make) the
controller. If you connect 10 in series (for 120VAC operation),
you'd need one control circuit. like this $44 one:
http://www.mcshaneinc.com/html/5CX-140.html
Victor
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 01:30 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
> >I also have heaters which work fine on my optimas and take practically
> >no extra space. Available to anyone, $9.95 a piece, look on my site.
>
> But do they have any temp control, or are they just X watt output at all times?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I just got this message in my e-mail. I almost shorted out my computer as I
was drooling on the keyboard.
It sounds almost too good to be true, But I'm thinking of doing it.
Those of you who own Corbins I'd like some advice.
Currntly, I commute about 14 miles to work. About 3-4 miles of that is in a 55
mile zone, the rest is 35-45 zones.
I have access to 110 recharging at work.
I know the corbin would be fine with this schedule, but I have just purchased a
piece of land that we hope to build a house on. The commute will be about 36
miles almost all highway speeds.
Since it will likely take me a couple of years or so to pay for this baby,
should I do it or would it put too much stress on the corbin?
Thanks
James
Happy New Year !!!
Great News!! Corbin has resumed work on their remaining Sparrow 1 designed
vehicles. Of these remaining vehicles, twenty are available for sale. These
vehicle will have the new A/C motor and Smart battery charging system. If you
are interested in one of these Birds or our demonstrator model, please give us
a call or email us ASAP.
Lawrence Long
Environmental Motors
Glendale, California
(818)244-BIRD (2473)
www.environmentalmotors.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:05 PM 1/13/2003 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] stated:
I know the corbin would be fine with this schedule, but I have just
purchased a
piece of land that we hope to build a house on. The commute will be about 36
miles almost all highway speeds.
Since it will likely take me a couple of years or so to pay for this baby,
should I do it or would it put too much stress on the corbin?
Well, a 26.5 mile commute over rolling hills at 55mph killed my pack in
about 3 months (maybe 4).
Is it level ground? Just how fast is "highway speed"?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You should probably join the Sparrow_EV group on Yahoo. That's where all
the Sparrow owners hang out.
At 07:05 PM 1/13/2003 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] stated:
I just got this message in my e-mail. I almost shorted out my computer as I
was drooling on the keyboard.
It sounds almost too good to be true, But I'm thinking of doing it.
Those of you who own Corbins I'd like some advice.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I'm out in the country, so it's 55 zone, but for about 1/3 to 1/2 the way
I could probably go 45 and not irriate too many people, and the last 3-5 miles
are bumper to bumper city driving, so speed is definately NOT a factor.
I suppose I COULD keep it below 55 for the whole trip, but I don't know if I'm
that diciplined. Maybe I am.
James
Quoting John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Well, a 26.5 mile commute over rolling hills at 55mph killed my pack in
>
> about 3 months (maybe 4).
> Is it level ground? Just how fast is "highway speed"?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:59 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
36 watts, these are just a heating elements. You supply (or make) the
controller. If you connect 10 in series (for 120VAC operation),
you'd need one control circuit. like this $44 one:
http://www.mcshaneinc.com/html/5CX-140.html
Hmm, you probably weren't following this thread from the beginning.
My vehicle is a Sparrow, which means 13 batteries, 2 battery compartments,
and 4 groups of batteries. A single temp controller for the whole mess is
pretty much guaranteed to cook some and freeze others.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:31:57 -0800 (PST)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Maybe this'll become a new question for ethics class -- should
parents drive bigger, safer cars at the expense of more pollution
that would shorten elderly average lifespan by xx years? Or smaller
cars that would shorten average lifespan by yy years because more
children were getting killed in car accidents? What should xx and yy
be?
--
Bigger cars are not safer. For Example: SUVs don't have the unibody
construction of regular cars. They pose a higher risk to the occupants of
that car and a much higher risk to the occupants of other cars, and
pedestrians. The ethics are pretty clear on the matter, but for most
folks ethics is the last thing from their mind while driving, much less
while car shopping.
--
____
__/o|__\~ ~ ~
`@ -----@`---(=
http://www.SoCalEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another thought occured to me. It might be possible to extend and square
the frame under the tank for more battery room. Like the Lectra. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: New EV Project
> The space below him is just wasted. Quite a few batteries could go under
> him with no extra room needed. Lawrence Rhodes....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: New EV Project
>
>
> > >My next project is to build a recumbent around a battery box(long and
> > >skinny). This design uses only 2 hp to attain 60 mph. Look Ma I have
a
> > >battery box and it's not being used.
> > >http://www.voidstar.com/bff/images/recped.jpg This is what I want to
make
> > >next. I believe I can make this little demon go 100 miles at Freeway
> > >speeds. Lawrence Rhodes... I am sure Frank the metal god could weld
> this
> > >up in one day...................
> >
> > Ah! Julian Bond's Feet Forward motorcycle site. I love that picture.
> > The guy looks so goofy/happy. I want half the stuff pictured on that
> > site. Especially a Voyager or Quasar. Oh, well, can't have everything.
> > --
> >
> >
> > Auf wiedersehen!
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
> >
> > "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
> > of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
> > women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
> >
> > "..No."
> >
> > "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
> >
> > -Real Genius
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
tgleeman2 wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 4:22 PM
> Subject: cut-n-crimp
>
> > I plan to go buy 00 gauge cable and use the flat lug
> > connectors to build replacement battery cables. I will
> > borrow a cable crimper from one of our local gurus and buddy
>
> Why don't you cut-n-crimp-n-solder those cables for a better,
> low ohm connection and seal? A propane torch and heavy guage rosin
> core, electronic grade solder works well.
You don't want to depend on solder alone for a high current connection.
If the connection gets hot, the solder runs out. Then it becomes a
really bad connection, and things go from bad to worse really quickly.
Therefore, you always want to crimp the cable or otherwise secure it
mechanically. Then you can *also* solder it if you wish. Soldering will
slightly reduce the connection resistance, and helps to keep the joint
from corroding over time.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Hmm, you probably weren't following this thread from the beginning.
> My vehicle is a Sparrow, which means 13 batteries, 2 battery compartments,
> and 4 groups of batteries. A single temp controller for the whole mess is
> pretty much guaranteed to cook some and freeze others.
That is if you don't do it right.
Well, frankly, I wasn't following it at all since not interested in
heaters. I just saw someone mentioned that KTA has heaters (elements)
so I injected that I offer them too.
Unlike your arrangement, I currently have 27 batteries in 3
compartments and in 6 groups. I have no problems with heating,
all my batts are individually insulated and controlled by
home made 3 zone controller:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/line_art/all.gif
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/heat3.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/heat2.jpg
I have 3 groups of 9 heaters in series.
However,
I don't see any problems with any number of heating elements as you
interconnect connect them any way you wish to have the same voltage
on them. Connect all 13 in series, you'll have 9.2V on each; or
21.3W per battery vs. original 36W. So, it will take a bit longer
to get to stable temp initially, but makes no difference in
maintaining it (as long as 21W is more than you need to keep
them at the temp you want. You cycle them on/off anyway.
My heaters are more time off than on, meaning less than
18W average power.
They are AC or DC, so you can connect resistors or capacitors
in series or parallel to get desired rating.
If you want individual control, PWM reduced AC to each element.
If you can't afford so many little controllers, use bunch of zero
crossing type light dimmers with their pot replaced with thermistor.
Self-regulating wire won't maintain the same temperature for
all the batteries if, say, some behind front grille get cooled
off more than those in the cabin. It may yield about the same
current (better than nothing), but no active temp control.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:03 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
Self-regulating wire won't maintain the same temperature for
all the batteries if, say, some behind front grille get cooled
off more than those in the cabin. It may yield about the same
current (better than nothing), but no active temp control.
I don't think you are thinking of the same heat cable as I am. This active
heating element resistance goes up with temperature. So as things get
hotter, it heats less. This tends to maintain a stable temperature. Since
it's the actual material of the cable that does this, one piece of it can
be sucking the amps, while 3" away it's already hot enough and is nearly idle.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am a bit confused. USBMC supplies any post you order. There is a BIG
difference between our "L" posts and the "S" "wannabe" posts you describe.
We just supply what the customer orders and all of the pictures of the
posts we offer are on our spec. sheet. BTW, there is large "L" and a small
"L" available also. Both of the "L" posts are quite different from the "S"
post which is preferred by some applications. Trojan's only offer is the
low profile, cheap, stud post for golf cars only which cannot carry the
sustained relatively high currents required by EV's, without melting down.
Right. The post I was responding to talked about a "universal" post on
Trojans, but the description (not really round, with a flat cut into it and
a hole through it) did NOT sound like a universal, but like the dual
purpose S post as pictured on US Battery literature.
Yes, I am aware and agree that US supplies the posts the customer requests,
although most distributors do not carry all the styles, so the large "L"
post usually have to be special ordered.
I think we're both saying the same thing here, there was just some
misunderstanding in communication.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:03 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
Unlike your arrangement, I currently have 27 batteries in 3
compartments and in 6 groups. I have no problems with heating,
all my batts are individually insulated and controlled by
home made 3 zone controller:
I have 3 groups of 9 heaters in series.
So each of your compartments is a block of batteries in an insulated box
with it's own temp controller. Should work quite well.
I don't see any problems with any number of heating elements as you
interconnect connect them any way you wish to have the same voltage
on them. Connect all 13 in series, you'll have 9.2V on each; or
21.3W per battery vs. original 36W. So, it will take a bit longer
to get to stable temp initially, but makes no difference in
maintaining it (as long as 21W is more than you need to keep
them at the temp you want. You cycle them on/off anyway.
My heaters are more time off than on, meaning less than
18W average power.
Except that 1 battery box has 7 batteries, is oddly shaped with a single
battery at each side in the least insulated position.
The front box is really weird. 1 battery sitting all by itself above the
others - pretty much no insulation. 2 batteries below this (about 3") with
(probably insulated) walls on 3 sides, and the 4th side against.. The last
3 batteries at the front, insulated on 2 sides, maybe 3.
Some of these batteries will definitely need more heat than others. I
don't see how a single zone controller can keep them at an even temp. 4
zone - sortof, but the 2 outliers in the big box would likely be cooler.
I was thinking about using your heating pads originally, but getting an
even temp in this weird layout is quite awkward.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 06:03 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
> >Self-regulating wire won't maintain the same temperature for
> >all the batteries if, say, some behind front grille get cooled
> >off more than those in the cabin. It may yield about the same
> >current (better than nothing), but no active temp control.
>
> I don't think you are thinking of the same heat cable as I am. This active
> heating element resistance goes up with temperature. So as things get
> hotter, it heats less. This tends to maintain a stable temperature. Since
> it's the actual material of the cable that does this, one piece of it can
> be sucking the amps, while 3" away it's already hot enough and is nearly idle.
Huh? The current through any wire (including this cable) is
identical at any point by definition, whether it includes regions
of higher resistance or not. When one small region getting hotter
current *through all* the cable is reduced, but is the same at any
crossection point.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I don't think you are thinking of the same heat cable as I am. This active
>heating element resistance goes up with temperature. So as things get
>hotter, it heats less. This tends to maintain a stable temperature. Since
>it's the actual material of the cable that does this, one piece of it can
>be sucking the amps, while 3" away it's already hot enough and is nearly
idle.
Sorry but that isn't possible. The wire by definition is a series circuit.
In a series circuit current is equal in all parts of the circuit.
If part of the cable gets hot and that part's resistance goes up, it will
have the same current as the rest but see a higher voltage per foot (or
inch, whatever). This means that that hot parts of the cable reduce current
in the cold parts and at the same time steal voltage which means the cold
parts get less power than the hot parts.
You will NOT get even heating from this type of cable, not if different
parts of the cable are exposed to different temperatures.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New EV Project
My next project is to build a recumbent around a battery box(long and
skinny). This design uses only 2 hp to attain 60 mph. Look Ma I have a
battery box and it's not being used.
http://www.voidstar.com/bff/images/recped.jpg This is what I want to make
next. I believe I can make this little demon go 100 miles at Freeway
speeds. Lawrence Rhodes... I am sure Frank the metal god could weld this
up in one day...................
The tricky part's the steering alignment. It can get a bit wierd at low
c.o.g.
A recumbent motorcycle would have the potential for much improved
aerodynamics over an upright version. It's tricky to do with gas power,
(where to put the drivetrain?) but electric might make it much easier to do.
Much better platform for a streamliner, too. The record so far for unaided
human power is 82 mph! I've heard that the streamliner bodies can get
squirrely in the wind, however.
I've been tossing the idea around, too, but more as a bicycle assist.
John
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nawaz,
I believe you did not see that Shari was including a portion
of my POST. The universal posts which I believe you call 'S',
are what I call a wannbe design. Please understand it was I,
and not Shari that said that.
Shari, these posts are not the large flat L type. They look
round, yet on closer inspection, the top half is cut with a
hole through it. Here is some crappy ASCII art:
. . . . _ . . . . .___. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . /| |\ . . . | . | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . .| | | |. . . | . | . <- hole through the center. . .
. . . \|_|/ . . ./. . .\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . |_______| <- bottom half is round . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
These are what I get without a special order, $5 per
battery extra cost, and the month + extra wait to get
them.
My Blazer was design back in the 90's by Gary Star's old
company Solar Electric (now defunct). Automotive posts were
standard back then.
When I try to use my cables which have automaotive lugs on
these universal (S) posts, I do not get as much metal to
metal contact as with the flat lug on these universal posts.
Essentailly, I am adapting to the change of posts by using
the flat lugs on the new cables I will be making.
tgleeman2 , Lee's points are valid, but in our local case,
we have found the solder wicks up the cable up under the
cable insulation, and makes one stiff cooked cable. These
cables are only 10" long and would cook under the heat.
The plan is to cut the 2/0 or 00 cable, use a knife to cut
the insulation, then slip that cut insulation back enough
to wrap a strong small string around the metal (this keeps
the metal strands from fraying), a galveniszing paste is
painted on the exposed cable metal and inside the lug,
the lug is fitted in the crimper, (and a second pair of
hands) places the cable metal into the lug, and the cable
lug is crimped in two places.
When one end is done, a anti-corrosion paste is painted
on the exposed metal and lug, then two heat-shrink pieces
are slid on from the other end: one red (for the positive
end) and one black (for the negative end). The second
heat-shrink has to be put on before the crimp (soit will
fit).
I bought 16 ft of 2/0 cable today @ $3.50/ft, and borught
some lugs @ $4 each. I still need to get the bolts and
nuts to fit through the lugs, and the 3/4 inch heat-shrink.
Since another pair of hands is needed to do this right, I
have to schedule this work for when the other EAA member
is free (perhaps at the next EAA meeting).
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 06:03 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
> >Unlike your arrangement, I currently have 27 batteries in 3
> >compartments and in 6 groups. I have no problems with heating,
> >all my batts are individually insulated and controlled by
> >home made 3 zone controller:
> >
> >I have 3 groups of 9 heaters in series.
>
> So each of your compartments is a block of batteries in an insulated box
> with it's own temp controller. Should work quite well.
No, I have groups of 10, 8, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1 but the heaters around
each connected in series to make 3 strings. Batteries in one
"electrical heater string" are mixed (belong to different
zones) to average error. 2 temperatures per string are sampled
and averaged. I don't have battery boxes per se.
...
> Except that 1 battery box has 7 batteries, is oddly shaped with a single
> battery at each side in the least insulated position.
> The front box is really weird. 1 battery sitting all by itself above the
> others - pretty much no insulation. 2 batteries below this (about 3") with
> (probably insulated) walls on 3 sides, and the 4th side against.. The last
> 3 batteries at the front, insulated on 2 sides, maybe 3.
>
> Some of these batteries will definitely need more heat than others. I
> don't see how a single zone controller can keep them at an even temp. 4
> zone - sortof, but the 2 outliers in the big box would likely be cooler.
See my arrangement: in the cabin (before batteries got wrapped):
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/floor8.jpg
In front: http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/front.jpg
(currently powercheqs are removed).
>
> I was thinking about using your heating pads originally, but getting an
> even temp in this weird layout is quite awkward.
Yes, I don't control the temps individually although I easily
could have. Measurements showed that the difference is not greater
than 3'C between those in the cabin and those next to the radiator.
My car is always plugged in and kept in the garage when not driven
(and not on the parking lot) to keep the temp constant.
In a winter single batteries in front cool off quicker than
those in the cabin, but after I'm at home and plug in for
charging, it doesn't take long to get them back to about
the same temp. It works good enough, though next EV will use
different approach.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
john kangas wrote:
>
...
> A recumbent motorcycle would have the potential for much improved
> aerodynamics over an upright version. It's tricky to do with gas power,
> (where to put the drivetrain?)
For example, here:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/f300-2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/f300-3.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/f300-4.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/f300-5.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/f300-6.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/f300-7.jpg
Victor
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--- Begin Message ---
Sorry but that isn't possible. The wire by definition is a series circuit.
In a series circuit current is equal in all parts of the circuit.
No Peter, if you look at the wire on the web site you will realize is
a massively parallel circuit. 2 conductors with a resistive plastic
between them (feel free to cut to length). Related to this, posted by
Mr. Smalley
<http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/frameset.html?book=Heaters&file=SRF3_SRF5_SRF8>.
It can heat some areas more and others less and the effective current
will be the sum of the individual currents (so, you want to look at
each foot, inch, or perhaps 1/32 inch)?
Neon
P.S. - John, I think you have about the best heater for the
situation. I may buy some to heat my own batteries.
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--- Begin Message ---
John is right, you should join the Sparrow_EV group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sparrow_ev/
There are still some angry dealers complaining of
the delays to get the EVs to the customers, and there
is a waiting list to get a Sparrow EV. But there are
used Sparrow EVs that come up for sale (see the
EVs4Sale link on the EAA site http://eaaev.org ).
I would secure:
- where your local optima battery supplier is, and
what the price is per pack (13 batteries at a time
should cost less than buying them one at a time)
- charging at work. You will have less depth of
discharge and it will let you increase your pack
life, and extend your range.
The 120 VAC Zivan NG3 charger on board has been
turned down to be able to run off a regular 120 VAC
outlet. But you are not getting the faster ~3kw if
you would get if you got the 220 VAC on board charger.
But you said you were in the boonies, so 120 VAC
will be easier to find, and getting an employer
to install, or allow you to use an existing
120 VAC outlet is much easier, than asking the
employer to make a special effort to install a
208 VAC outlet.
See http://geocities.com/ev_charging/
for more EV charging info.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a good deal on the motor.
www.sg-photo.com has some nicads for cheap. They have a few 13 ah and
18.2ah boxes cells at 24V. They also have loads of 30Ah cells. I was
there this weekend picking up the ones I bought from the on eBay. The
boxed 20 packs at 13 or 18.2 ah might make a nice system, although I
don't know how many ah you will need. I suspect they are starter nicads
and should do well at high current, but I haven't tried mine at greater
than 1C yet.
One other thing. Has anyone on the list ever done a 4 lug series wound
motor as a sepex, like an ADC?
Seth
damon henry wrote:
>
> Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one of the
> kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
>
> I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki GT250. It
> has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is some rust
> on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the lights don't
> seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice strong
> frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the original
> tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
> carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so rather
> then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will just
> drain the tank and tear into it.
>
> The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I chose this,
> is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch he is
> selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
> Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I am going
> to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
> batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long commute, 25
> miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of WH/Mile I end
> up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that 4 Group
> 31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do Evercells, but
> we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am also still
> considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a modular
> charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the thread
> started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had a couple
> laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they really
> do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2 amps and
> one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my Hawkers and
> measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking much of
> a sweat, it did taper down after that.
>
> I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything about doing
> a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access but
> electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a motorcycle, and
> won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV and
> Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
>
> I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was seriously
> considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for it. My
> wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at pictures of
> it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that she hates
> Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and I had no
> idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to spend 10K
> - 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as nice as
> Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle races for
> me.
>
> damon
>
> I put a picture of my donor here
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
> I will need to figure out some way of switching the heat cable off
> during charging -- as I'm pretty sure the extra current draw would
> confuse the Zivan.
Get or make a current sensing relay. When the Zivan draws curernt, it
pulls in the relay, whose contact turns off the heater.
Current sensing relays are common in motor starters. Basically, it is a
perfectly normal relay whose coil only has a few turns of heavy wire, so
it pulls in at some specified current (like 5 amps) instead of a voltage
(like 24 volts).
If you can't find one, get a relay with a 24vac coil and a small 60 Hz
transformer with a 24vac secondary. Connect the relay coil to the
transformer secondary. Leave its primary open-circuited. Run a turn or
two of wire thru the core as your high-current primary. Play with the
number of turns in this winding to get the desired current trip point.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Huh? The current through any wire (including this cable) is
> identical at any point by definition, whether it includes regions
> of higher resistance or not. When one small region getting hotter
> current *through all* the cable is reduced, but is the same at any
> crossection point.
Victor, this heat cable looks like ordinary 2-conductor wire; two highly
conductive wires in an insulating jacket. However, the insulation is
really a carbon-loaded conductive elastomer, whose resistance strongly
depends on temperature. Current flows thru the insulation to produce the
heat.
As the insulation heats up, its resistance goes up; so it become
self-limiting. This has the interesting characteristic that if one
section of the wire is well insulated (such as, going thru a hole in a
piece of styrafoam), it only heats to its self-regulated temperature. If
another section is touching something cold (like pinched between two
batteries), then it produces maximum heat. Thus, it acts like hundreds
of little heaters and thermostats, all in parallel.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> these posts... look round, yet on closer inspection, the top half
> is cut with a hole through it. Here is some crappy ASCII art [snip]
> These are what I get without a special order, $5 per battery extra
> cost, and the month + extra wait to get them.
Bruce, any good battery shop should be able to re-cast any kind of post
you want for less than $5 per battery. If you already have good cables
from your old set of batteries, just have them cast on a mating
connector.
If you can't find someone to do it for you, for as many batteries as you
have, you can probably buy the mold and some lead, and do it yourself.
It will also come in handy if you ever melt a post. :-)
> My Blazer was design back in the 90's by Gary Star's old
> company Solar Electric (now defunct). Automotive posts were
> standard back then.
Automotive posts are still a good bet for high current EVs.
> tgleeman2, Lee's points are valid, but in our local case,
> we have found the solder wicks up the cable up under the
> cable insulation, and makes one stiff cooked cable.
That's because you can't solder such big lugs with just a propane torch.
It takes too long to heat, allowing the solder too much time to wick up
the cable.
When I solder 2/0 cable, I use a solder pot. Strip the wire, put flux in
the terminal, insert the wire, crimp it, then dunk it in the solder pot.
It solders beautifully in just a few seconds, and the solder won't wick
more than 1/4" up the wire.
> When one end is done, a anti-corrosion paste is painted
> on the exposed metal and lug
I just use vaseline or grease; anything to keep water out.
> then two heat-shrink pieces
I use the kind that has hot glue inside it, so heat-shrinking it also
bonds the tubing to the terminal.
> I bought 16 ft of 2/0 cable today @ $3.50/ft, and borught
> some lugs @ $4 each.
Kind of high prices! I go to Waytek Inc. which just happens to be close
to me <www.waytekwire.com>
> Since another pair of hands is needed to do this right
I don't see why. Immediately after stripping, the strands are normally
all right together, and easily slip inside a terminal. It's not too hard
to keep them there long enough to crimp it. Put a piece of tape over
them if you're having a problem; it won't affect the crimping process.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1) Re: Charge across the Rockies, chargin' along
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I've made numerous long-distance EV trips over the last five years
with several different EVs. I've never "run out", never had any sort
of mechanical breakdown, never had a "back up" generator or a
"support" vehicle (ICE) for those "just-in-case" situations.
Yet the trips have been very interesting...
Honda EVplus
GM EV1 Delphi PbA
GM EV1 Ovonic
GM EV1 Panasonic PbA
RAV4 EV
AC Propulsion Golf
On different trips, I've driven from Los Angeles to Montreal and
New York, 3200 miles in 1 week, plus trips through Dallas and
Atlanta, the Bay Area, Oregon, Lake Tahoe, Arizona, Vegas,
Anza Borrego...
IMHO, 240 volt "real" power is the only way to go. You need a
reliable car, unless you want to sit on the side of the road. Pack
lightly, but carry a few good plug adapters and extension cords.
Your range goes up in warm weather. Regen braking. Know the
battery capacity, range, and elevation coefficient (feet per mile)
My favorite recharging sites:
RV parks--- just ask for a "50 amp site" (ask, most have them)
Welding shops--- *always* have a nice casual 50A/240V outlet
Motels--- the A/C outlet at decent places is 220 volts (!!)
Homes, fire stations, motels--- electric dryer outlets are common
Temporary construction site power--- look for L6-30 outlets
Plus "Mr. Alligator Clips" and "Mrs. Circuit breaker" snap-in have
taken the load for me a few times ;-)
Restaurants almost always have good 220 volt power outlets,
but it's usually hard to get at. Stick with "slower" businesses
like car repair garages... gear heads are usually much more
helpful than bureaucrats. You can waste a lot of time trying
(pointlessly) to get permission to plug in from the desk-jockey
chair-polisher set.
/wk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can get a box of almost any size terminal on eBay at a whole lot less
than retail. Just have to watch a while. I've bought many boxes this way and
crimpers, too.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: cut-n-crimp
> Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > these posts... look round, yet on closer inspection, the top half
> > is cut with a hole through it. Here is some crappy ASCII art [snip]
> > These are what I get without a special order, $5 per battery extra
> > cost, and the month + extra wait to get them.
>
> Bruce, any good battery shop should be able to re-cast any kind of post
> you want for less than $5 per battery. If you already have good cables
> from your old set of batteries, just have them cast on a mating
> connector.
>
> If you can't find someone to do it for you, for as many batteries as you
> have, you can probably buy the mold and some lead, and do it yourself.
> It will also come in handy if you ever melt a post. :-)
>
> > My Blazer was design back in the 90's by Gary Star's old
> > company Solar Electric (now defunct). Automotive posts were
> > standard back then.
>
> Automotive posts are still a good bet for high current EVs.
>
> > tgleeman2, Lee's points are valid, but in our local case,
> > we have found the solder wicks up the cable up under the
> > cable insulation, and makes one stiff cooked cable.
>
> That's because you can't solder such big lugs with just a propane torch.
> It takes too long to heat, allowing the solder too much time to wick up
> the cable.
>
> When I solder 2/0 cable, I use a solder pot. Strip the wire, put flux in
> the terminal, insert the wire, crimp it, then dunk it in the solder pot.
> It solders beautifully in just a few seconds, and the solder won't wick
> more than 1/4" up the wire.
>
> > When one end is done, a anti-corrosion paste is painted
> > on the exposed metal and lug
>
> I just use vaseline or grease; anything to keep water out.
>
> > then two heat-shrink pieces
>
> I use the kind that has hot glue inside it, so heat-shrinking it also
> bonds the tubing to the terminal.
>
> > I bought 16 ft of 2/0 cable today @ $3.50/ft, and borught
> > some lugs @ $4 each.
>
> Kind of high prices! I go to Waytek Inc. which just happens to be close
> to me <www.waytekwire.com>
>
> > Since another pair of hands is needed to do this right
>
> I don't see why. Immediately after stripping, the strands are normally
> all right together, and easily slip inside a terminal. It's not too hard
> to keep them there long enough to crimp it. Put a piece of tape over
> them if you're having a problem; it won't affect the crimping process.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
