EV Digest 2560
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute charge to 80%)
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Fun with EV's
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: How a simple electric vehicle limits speed and ammeter limits.
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Truck (im)possibility
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Maserati EV conversion considering
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute charge to 80%)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: How many miles in a day (WAS 20 minute charge to 80%)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: E-tek Sparrows (was Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?))
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute charge to 80%)
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-tek Sparrows (was Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?))
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: E-tek Sparrows (was Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?))
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: E-tek Sparrows (was Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?))
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: E-tek Sparrows (was Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?))
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Simulation results are in (was: Competition started, Truck (im)possibility))
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: How a simple electric vehicle limits speed and ammeter limits.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: How a simple electric vehicle limits speed and ammeter limits.
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) lead pollution
by GreenVW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: How a simple electric vehicle limits speed and ammeter limits.
by "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Lectra tips. Brake light switch.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute charge to 80%)
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Good point! This scenario though was an on-board PFC with max amp
capability tailored to the traction pack and selected inputs. If one
could squeeze a PFC-50 into the vehicle, it could be modified to do a
faster bulk charge when supplied with DC battery power.
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:13 PM
> To: EV
> Subject: Re: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute
> charge to 80%)
>
>
> Besides which you don't need a PFC charger when going from DC
> to DC, do you?
[snip]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John;
Cool story! I can almost hear the tires do the Smoke thing, smell it.
It's great to see the Meanie come out of " State" and do it's transportation
thing, of course a tip of the hat to Rich for the PFC -20, or is it 50, that
gives life to the Meanie. Have always argued that the value of the EV is in
direct proportion to it's charger. Yur as good as your charger. The Meanie
has met it's match, in chargers. Makes yur day when yu find a hot outlet out
there than ya can sip some amps. THAT'S the frustrating thing in EVing
everywhere. It would be so easy to have the streets awash, in 120 AND 240
range plugs , a simple way to do it would be to offer businesses tax breaks
to them to provide them. Why should Tom, my guy down at Killingworth True
Value hardware, good people, put out an outlet? He duz, anyhow, and I use
it, but he is just being nice. He should get a tax break, or something He
likes my EV, has gotten the guided tour and ride. Meanie would sure be more
inpressive, but Rabbbit's the only game in town, so it impresses with it's
silky glide and takeoffs in 4th. no tire smoke, it just goes. Maybe Out
West, advertising an outlet draws in EV biz? Enough out there to make a
differance?
Started running the Rabbit, yesterday. We had some tropical weather, up
in the 30's, so I changed the LS CV joint. Pleasenty found that I could slip
it out, by pulling the tranny shifting bar, so I didn't hafta take the
whole@#$% suspension apart, at the lower ball joint, so I was done in an
hour. Mostly spent getting the rounded axle NUT off. Socket just SNAP, and
pops off! Bummer, when yur standing on the breaker bar. With me, maybe 260
lbs Foot Pounds of torque. The way I tighten them! I was in reach of my
actheletelene torch, the Brass Wrench, so heated it up til it gave, with a
inch size socket hammered on. I hear you crindging, but ya gotta do what it
takes! The nut gave, dug it out of the socket and wong it out across the
slumbering CT meadow. Dust to dust, an all that shit! A new nut came wuith
the "new" rebilt axle. Oh JOY!
Put it all together, EVen to the silly little VW hubcap, turned the amps
up on the Rapture and went for a spin. I found a good way to try out CV
joints; find some ice patches, put one wheel on it, yank up on the handbrake
and spin the wheel away, while yur turning the steering wheel back an forth,
listening for the clank clank. THEN do the other side. Yul find it that way,
but they are strange. Yu can ring it out that way, trundle off down the
road, in clouds of contentment thinking Oh it wasn't the CV joint, then all
of a suddon, " Clank clank clank, or a wheel wrenching Bang bang, like it
was gunna tear the stearing wheel out of yur hands. It's been fine EVer
since, an' anyhow the rubber boot was split anyhow, so it was over due. I
didn't SEE it was when it was in service. So, crap was chewing up the CV
joint, an' I didn't know it.
OK I'm gunna take it to work today, sunny, in the 30's hit it with the
Blue Box charger, a few hours and away we go! The car hasn't run for about a
month, the Rapture controller problem, got it back a weak ago, and had put
it back in the car, doing short bursts, round town, on the frozen batteries.
Haz been below 30 for weeks! Down in the teens EVery day, knocks the shit
out of my range, but I can live with it, as I can plug in at Amtrak. Made it
to work, with plenty of juiceleft! Plugged in the variac, turned her up to
15 amps and walked away. Train , of COURSE was late, it always is when I
make a date to meet somebody, a friend ,for dinner. So I came back, about
half hour later, cranked it up to 15 again, and when I got back, about 3 AM,
it was, like summer, nice an' juicy! Down to about 4-5 amps. Yeah! Not as
slick as the PFC series, but it works for me.
Snowing like hell, had been intown, so I knew we would have it in CT too.
It's amazing the climatic weather change from NYC to CT. Ya start out
underground in Penn Station, out to the wilds of CT. Ya open the door or
window of yur cozy EV, AEM-7 loco, in New Haven,and are assaulted by blasts
of fridged air, like yu just pulled in to Siberia! What! In 75 mile flight,
ya think? Finally get back to the car, turn on the electric ceramic heat and
dust a few inches of snow off, as the defroster duz its thing. in a few
minutes it's warmed up, to cozy, from the gusty blowing snow. Roll up the
chords an' drive away. Of course the car is QUIET! Tiptoeing through the
relatively unplowed snow. I chose the backroads, two laners, which I had to
myself. Wish yu were here to enjoy gliding through the snowswept night.
Gusty winds, wafting the snow across the roads. Passing a Bank's outside
temp gage 16 degreez! Ya know it was windy, but in a million pound rabbit,
it doesn't effect it, any more that training through it an hour ago in a
lightweight 110 ton Loco. Ya sorta feel safe an' secure, at about 35-40
gliding along. Yeah Need more heat, as the faster yu go the less heat yu
get. . But it sure is better than NO heat! Becides, I hava pair of driving
gloves, anyhow. The EV power can be applied so smoothly, I thought, just for
fun, take a very steep shortcut home, thinking i can back down, if it
wouldn't. It didn't care, in second, went rite up the unplowed snowcovered
ramplike steep hill. Had to try to spin the wheels. My Nokeans like snow, I
guess? I put my foot in it a few times and the wheels, both brake loose and
spin, of course the car starts to drift out of stearing control! So yu don't
do it long. made it home with plenty of juice left, gratifying as the
batteries came out of their hiatus, willing to do their thing, but I sure
want to go with something, Evercells or LiOns or SOMETHING in different to
cold weather. Til then I can sorta live with 1440 lbs of lead, for now
,great for traction in the snow! But we gotta do better, I don't think that
Its ready for Joe Sixpack just yet, although the care an' feeding of the
Rabbit wouldn't be a hassle to anybody handy enough to run a Home
Entertaimnment Centre or a computer, for that matter. Look at all the stick
shift carz still running around out there. THEY take a bit of cordination,
to make work, on the part of their pilots.
Anyhow, that's a bit of life EV'wise in frozen CT. Spring is only 2
months away, Think Woodburn, or WhEVer we end up at this summer? It's a
balmy 18 degrees out now! Ah POO! But I'll run the Rabbit today, I think. In
the nice things about it. The sky is a beautiful rich BLUE, sun shining, so
clean looking outside, too bad it is so unpleasent out! You just don't see
the crap in the air like in the summer.Optical disalusion, or something like
that.
Seeya, through the gusting snow
Bob
>
Hi All;
Had to include this tire an' heart warming EVenture, share it
along.enjoy!! I did. From John, in PDX.
(snip)
> I had called Marko at the metal shop, to see if he wanted to go get a
burger together. He
> instantly jumped at the chance for a bit of fun, a break away from the
drudgery of the
> metal shop these days (I'll need to go more into detail on this in another
post). He asked
>
> if I minded if Tom came along...Tom is about 35 or so and has owned
tricked out 1200's in
> his youth, so he was excited to ride in not only his first electric car,
but to ride in an
>
> electric 1200!
>
> With three of us piled into my little econo car from yesteryear, I turned
north on 82nd
> Ave., selected 2nd gear, punched the accelerator, and simply blistered the
right rear
> tire, much to Tom's 'GEESHHH' delight. I drove pretty aggressively and
took the car
> crisply up to 60 mph in probably 7 seconds or so with three full sized
dudes in on
> board...Tom was absolutely blown away.
>
> We arrived at a classic old burger joint called 'Jim Dandy' and pulled
into a spot. When I
>
> got out, I was surprised to see a beautiful pair of outdoor outlets
complete with GFI's
> and clear plastic flip up covers, right near the parking space I was in.
We had driven
> about 6 miles and the car had sipped away just 5.6 ahrs from the pack, so
it wasn't
> anywhere close to being tired, but to freak Tom out even more and without
hesitation and
> acting like I had expected the outlets to be there, I used the car's
remote control, hit
> button #4 and released the trunk latch, grabbed the twist lock-to-120VAC
adapter and the
> 25 ft. bright yellow power cord, and plugged in the car! I popped the hood
and had Marko
> twist down the charger's current control so that the Meanie wouldn't pop
the burger
> joint's breakers, then we went in to dine on delicious old fashioned type
burgers, fries,
> and refreshing ice cold root beers....mmmmm! While we sat and looked out
the window, the
> EV was attracting a small crowd of gawkers...the yellow power cord is in
stark contrast to
>
> the deep blue paint, and so it screams, "HEY, I'm plugged in!!!"
>
> With our bellies full, we unplugged, piled back in, and took off back to
the metal shop.
> This time, I showed Tom the awesome torque power of an electric motor, by
pointing out
> that the car was in 4th gear and that I would not touch the clutch...then,
thanks to the
> ballsy DCP 1200 amp controller and that stump puller 9 inch ADC, we simply
motored away
> onto the street, and with about a halfway-down pressing of the accelerator
pedal, we
> pulled smartly up to the speed limit...Tom was again, stunned.
>
> At the shop, he and Marko got out, we said our goodbyes, and with the
front tires turned
> and the car on an incline in the parking lot, I mashed the GO pedal down
and did a
> righteous smoke show! Tom's mouth hung open and Marko just shook his head
as if to say,
> "There goes Wayland again". I let off the throttle at the street entrance,
first looked
> around for cops, then turned left while in 3rd gear from a dead stop. It
had rained
> yesterday, but today it's sunny and dry again, so the streets have just a
hint of wetness
> on them in places....this was ideal for a 'See Ya tire ignition
sequence.'....I could see
> in my rear view mirror that Tom hadn't gotten enough yet and that he and
Marko were
> watching to see if the tires would be punished some more....yup!....I
hammered down the
> pedal and the tires both spun wildly with a very satisfying constant
squeal that lasted
> for an entire block, leaving a good cloud of smoke in my wake.
>
> I got back to the Wayland EV Juice Bar with just 15.4 ahrs gone from the
pack and a
> healthy 160V reading on the Emeter, twisted the PFC20's current knob all
the way up (as it
>
> usually is), and plugged into the 240VAC supply. By the time I get done
typing this to
> you, the Meanie will be topped off and ready to rock again.
>
> See Ya........John
>
> A nice winter blah's fighting story!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sounds like a golf cart motor... the highest current I've ever seen on
my 36 volt cart was about 220 amps, which was going up an extreme
incline. your buggy will probably weigh more than my cart, and your
motor may be a bit bigger. I can't say for sure, but I think a 300 amp
meter is probably just about perfect. Your 'current limit' at top
speed depends mostly on the motor's internal resistance (dependent on
RPM) and the system voltage.
Seth
On Monday, January 27, 2003, at 12:34 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I have a GE 5BC48JB141. 2HP. 36V. A52 3300 RPM. I am assuming
that it
is speed limited simply by the voltage. (My A89 powered Lectra with a
1204
won't draw any more current on the level at 40 mph no matter how much
I cram
the throttle. Unless I hit a hill it won't go faster or draw more
current.)
It is a simple contactor controller. Rise or lower the voltage and it
goes
faster or slower. I am thinking though there is only a current limit
at top
speed on level ground no wind. With a hill or wind the current will
go up
quite a bit. Does anybody know what a GE motor like this will draw up
a
hill. Will there be spikes while going through the contractors &
resistor.
I wanted to use a 300 amp ammeter but I am thinking that may not be
enough
when hill climbing. Just going to use 6 Trojan or simular batteries.
Lawrence Rhodes....
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Yes, I know this is an old thread, but I'm behind on list reading again!
As I've said before, I'm into trailers. When I need to haul something that
is either too big and/or heavy for the bed of the S10, I have a 1/2 ton
full-sized pickup bed trailer, or a two-axle car hauler with electric
brakes on both axles. After all, why drive a 1/2 ton pickup around empty
99% of the time, just to have the ability to haul something or pull a big
trailer 1% of the time, not to mention that a mini-truck can pull a heavy
load also! I've used my S10 EV to pull the car hauler (which weighs one
ton), with a car on it, to a bone yard in a neighboring town. This was on
flat ground, starting out in first gear with slow acceleration (after
replacing the Curtis with a H2O cooled DCP Raptor), but it's doable
electrically with one 9" ADC motor if you keep your speed (motor current)
down. Using my off-board FrankenLester and on-board Zivan together (7KW),
I've pulled my pickup bed trailer to a neighboring town and opportunity
charged while unloading them. If I need to go farther, we have the S10
extended cab gasser, which pulls 6K pounds of car hauler just fine.
As others have said, for 10K pounds of trailer and an F250 truck, John
would need two DC motors (or big H2O cooled AC) and "a lot" of flooded
batteries (or more expensive types) and maybe some opportunity charging,
especially if he has any hills. Do I hear someone saying bio-diesel truck
(which a local EV'er has gotten into)?
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Executive VP of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
(With an emphasis on youth education)
http://www.devc.org/
Lyons, CO
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 16 year-old son!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:15:47 -0800
>From: John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>I'm wondering if it would be possible to convert something like a Ford F250
>truck to an EV, and still be able to use it as a truck.
>I have occasional need for a pickup truck (and no, renting one isn't
>possible). The big problem is that one of the things I need to use the
>truck for is to pull my equipment trailer. (Take the tractor to the shop,
>move a car, etc..) This is a 3 axle trailer that is about 4000 lbs
>empty. Tractor adds another 6000 lbs of load.
>
>Would it be possible to have a conversion truck that could:
>A) Have a 40-50 mile range WITHOUT the trailer.
>B) Have a 10-20 mile range WITH the trailer?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's probably a Bi-Turbo or 420. Originally 2.6/2.8 4vpc V6 with turbo per
bank. Very fine and expensive engine, with which you got a poorly built and
electrically unreliable car for free.
Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> Besides which you don't need a PFC charger when going from DC to DC, do
> you?
>
You clearly do if your target is at a higher voltage than your source.
The control gear to do a controlled Dump charge..... NO over charge, no
under charge, Is not trivial.
You have to plan the state of charge on the dump pack and the reciever
pack or your contactor controlled dump charger will break something.
As few have found out... doing well thought out dump charge IS about the
fastest way to fill 'em up. If you have not done your home work, it is
the fastest way
to blow up your battery pack and other expensive gear.
The Dump pack concept is why Rod and CO destroyed 4 strings of JC
inspiras, and Why Wayland and Co hurt the Hawkers. But hey it's racing!!
I don't want to know where the peak battery volts goes when you dump
pack. I bet a LOT of regulators have bitten the dust durning dump
charges.
Maybe that's why both teams are Regulator less for racing. And why they
are a lot slower than they should be.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
>
>
But it makes me think there's a 200-300 mile one-day
> potential with good charging infrastructure (I think a Rudman
> PFC-50 and a well-spaced set of 14-50/50A outlets would fill the
> bill);
> ...And now we have our new ZAP vehicle claiming 240miles at
> 70mph, with a one-hour charge time, according to a ZAP press
> release (if you believe it). Put it back on the road for another
> 240miles.
>
> Kinda reminds me of the Georgia Power folks who ran their truck
> EV for 800 miles in 24 hours using pulse charging (Norvik?).
>
> Just seems like an investment in good charging infrastructure
> would pay some real dividends in EV usability.
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
I agree with the Well spaced 14-50 and a PFC50. This gives us EVers the
maximum that residentail power can supply.
Thats why we build them.
Every time I read a claim of 240 mile range at 70 mph. I really get
offfened by one of our own making these claims. But dwith LI-on maybe...
but I doubt that the customer is going to hurk up $30K for the pack. Few
Ev developers have the throw weight to make a battery managment system
that could support 40Kw of battery storage.
Filling that battery pack in 1 hour, is getting into my back yard...
480 3 phase is needed, and at 80+ amps a phase. This is doable. But off
in the $20K per charger range. There are no real hard limits to
getting charge power in the dozzens of Kw, Joe and I have penned up 45
Kw chargers for a 180+ volt 300 amp requirement. We can go higher if we
had tighters design limits. The Subtile point is I doubt that the Li
???? batteries can take that kind of recharge power without some serious
thermal limits. On Li??? temperature is a Rather serious limit/control
point. Having 40+ Kw going into a battery pack, nasty things can happen
rather fast.
Just for those that don't know..... the above mentioned Norvik pulse
charger, comes on a semi truck trailer with a attached GMC 6-71 Diesel
Gen Set, This is in the $250K level of charger. Not many were made.
At 25Kw and up, charging system start showing up in Rack mount
hardware, and have 500- 1000 lbs input transformers. Clearly these are
NOT on board chargers. Unless your EV is a BUSS or truck. They certainly
won't be on board a 240 mile per charge @ 70 mph EV.
So lets keep things in perspective.
When John Wayland blasts up here from Portalnd Ore for lunch, and I have
him charged and on his way in one hour....THEN 240 mile range EVs will
be real.
Right now it takes a 2500 lbs of battery and a 4 hour charge layover in
Centrialia. And that's with a PFC50 and a 14-50.
We Gotta get Pat Sweeny to install a 14-50 outlet outside his fence....
so we can do this at strange times if need be.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
...
> Victor's AC unit wouldn't fit in a Sparrow if
> you tried. Just not going to happen.
The smallest unit I have is 19.5"x8"x6.85" (still 100 kW).
How much space you have available? How 'bout cushion the inverter
and make a seat out of it?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Should have been clearer, my comment just meant that you didn't need the
PFC portion of the charger. At least I can't see why you would need it.
All you really need is the big honkin DC-DC converter portion (and the
brains) which aught to be a little easier and cheaper without the PFC
front end.
Actually this sounds like a job for a reconfigured controller. If you
had an external blower on your mototr you could use the field coil as an
inductor (and yes I realize this is far from an original idea)
Of course if you want the same charger to do double duty for DC dump and
AC charging then yeah you might as well get the PFC.
On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 11:54, Rich Rudman wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > Besides which you don't need a PFC charger when going from DC to DC, do
> > you?
> >
> You clearly do if your target is at a higher voltage than your source.
> The control gear to do a controlled Dump charge..... NO over charge, no
> under charge, Is not trivial.
> You have to plan the state of charge on the dump pack and the reciever
> pack or your contactor controlled dump charger will break something.
> As few have found out... doing well thought out dump charge IS about the
> fastest way to fill 'em up. If you have not done your home work, it is
> the fastest way
> to blow up your battery pack and other expensive gear.
>
> The Dump pack concept is why Rod and CO destroyed 4 strings of JC
> inspiras, and Why Wayland and Co hurt the Hawkers. But hey it's racing!!
> I don't want to know where the peak battery volts goes when you dump
> pack. I bet a LOT of regulators have bitten the dust durning dump
> charges.
>
> Maybe that's why both teams are Regulator less for racing. And why they
> are a lot slower than they should be.
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:46 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
jerry dycus wrote:
> Victor's AC unit wouldn't fit in a Sparrow if
> you tried. Just not going to happen.
The smallest unit I have is 19.5"x8"x6.85" (still 100 kW).
Does that one include the contactors internally?
How much space you have available? How 'bout cushion the inverter
and make a seat out of it?
Batteries under the seat, no extra room.
I will be making measurements of various compartments soon. (Move the
charger - PFC 20, to the controller compartment, switch to smaller
batteries (LiIon or Evercell), put the controller up front....)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:57 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, John Lussmyer stated:
I will be making measurements of various compartments soon. (Move the
charger - PFC 20, to the controller compartment, switch to smaller
batteries (LiIon or Evercell), put the controller up front....)
One more note, I could fit 65 of the smallest Evercell, but I think 780v
might be a bit too much for one of Viktors systems... :-)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 12:46 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov stated:
> >jerry dycus wrote:
> > > Victor's AC unit wouldn't fit in a Sparrow if
> > > you tried. Just not going to happen.
> >
> >The smallest unit I have is 19.5"x8"x6.85" (still 100 kW).
>
> Does that one include the contactors internally?
No internal contactors (they are supplied though).
You tuck them away wherever you have a spot. In that sense it's good,
because integration will increase the size of a single unit.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 12:57 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, John Lussmyer stated:
> >I will be making measurements of various compartments soon. (Move the
> >charger - PFC 20, to the controller compartment, switch to smaller
> >batteries (LiIon or Evercell), put the controller up front....)
>
> One more note, I could fit 65 of the smallest Evercell, but I think 780v
> might be a bit too much for one of Viktors systems... :-)
Make 2 strings of 390V each, and I'll program inverter for you to
handle that.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
>
> >Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > >
> > > > Last thing - any guess for a rolling resistance (with and without
> > > > trailer) of this 8 ton beast.
> > >
> > > Assuming you are looking for a coefficient, How does 0.015 sound?
> >
> >Regular car (not LRR tires) usually has it 0.01. A trailer will add
> >0.005 if it has two wheels (one axle) and single wheel on each side
> >(not double wheels like those on the rear axle of a school bus, not
> >sure what is it called). Id the wheels are doubles, i.e. four tires
> >touch the ground, or there are two axles on the trailer, I'm afraid
> >it will be 0.02 - twice as bad as without trailer.
>
> Um, am I missing something or are we way off here?
>
> Coefficient as I understand it is the ratio of drag to weight on the wheel.
> Therefore, assuming you figure the weight of the combined vehicle,
> and that that weight is never put to the ground more than once, it
> really doesn't matter how many tires there are. Each tire has some
> share of the load, and the ones with higher load will produce more
> drag. Except for non linear effects of tires, you can pretend the
> whole trailer and truck is one item on one tire and come up with the
> same result.
Yes, this reflects this non-linear effect. Deflate your tires and
while there are still 4 of them and the vehicle weighs the same,
drag increases. Now, for normally inflated tires, if you just load
the vehicle, the rubber contact
patch increases and as more rubber must deform as the vehicle
rolls, this will affect resistance. But mainly, in this simulation,
extra set of 4 wheels (2 axle trailer) was put on the road.
But, simplified, you're right, at the first glance there is no
direct relationship.
>
> But the error is only for the rolling portion of the drag, yes?
No, I meant *any* error (front area, weight, etc). Rolling resistance
was just an example how error affects overall result.
> that was true at 60 mph then your model would not be very accurate
> since most of the drag is aerodynamic at that speed.
>
> I'm curious to see the results.
Here: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/ford/ford_sim.htm
I just checked this page and noticed that couple plots do not
load. They did yesterday.
Never upload stuff at 2 am! %-{
I'll fix this tonight, but for impatient - in short single AC motor
will handle this vehicle just fine. Now, Peter, I'd love to see
results for a single motor DC setup of your choice ...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth, Lawrence and All,
Interesting you all brought this up. Just today
I sawed up 90 lbs of sq tube, angle steel to make a
trike from a golf cart transaxle with the same motor
as yours.
The front end is from a Honda Elite motorcycle,
I wish it was more heavy duty but it will only be
going 40 mph so should work. All the parts were
hanging around and I needed to get rid of a lot in my
spring cleaning so was already thinking of doing it.
As luck would have a welder friend wanted my
14hp B+S propane power cement floor grinder that
didn't work and I needed to get rid of so killed 4
birds with 1 stone with him doing the welding, steel
work for the grinder. So I get rid of 3 things and get
a nice little e-trike runabout out of the deal, cool!!
Sure beats junk piles!!!
Batts will be 4 or 5 used gp31 Dynasty batts
depending on how fast it goes. Stock resistor control
for now so total costs will be about $250 including
the $40 inspection fee, $20 tag fee and used batts.
Ah, the joy of a nice juck pile!!
I'll probably sell it to raise money for the
Freedom EV project.
I don't see the motor going much faster than 40
mph without overheating and about all the brakes will
handle either. In a hilly area like Frisco maybe a
lower top speed so there is enough power to handle the
hills. It would be a great little city runabout.
300 amp meter sounds about right for the motor
as much more will burn the motor up.
Mine has a 6-1 rear end ratio and will be using
12/13" trailer rims, the lightess I could find and the
bolt pattern fit perfectly as it is a standard wheel
size. The transaxle came fron a very old EZ-Go from
the 60's that the frame rusted out.
Frames to make these are complicated but this
one seems fairly good.
If you want to go 40 mph you will need to go to
12/13" tires and/or high voltage pack.
I hear most GC rears are 8-1 ratio make sure to
check yours out.
jerry dycus
--- Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> sounds like a golf cart motor... the highest
> current I've ever seen on
> my 36 volt cart was about 220 amps, which was going
> up an extreme
> incline. your buggy will probably weigh more than
> my cart, and your
> motor may be a bit bigger. I can't say for sure,
> but I think a 300 amp
> meter is probably just about perfect. Your 'current
> limit' at top
> speed depends mostly on the motor's internal
> resistance (dependent on
> RPM) and the system voltage.
>
> Seth
>
>
> On Monday, January 27, 2003, at 12:34 PM, Lawrence
> Rhodes wrote:
>
> > I have a GE 5BC48JB141. 2HP. 36V. A52 3300
> RPM. I am assuming
> > that it
> > is speed limited simply by the voltage. (My A89
> powered Lectra with a
> > 1204
> > won't draw any more current on the level at 40 mph
> no matter how much
> > I cram
> > the throttle. Unless I hit a hill it won't go
> faster or draw more
> > current.)
> > It is a simple contactor controller. Rise or lower
> the voltage and it
> > goes
> > faster or slower. I am thinking though there is
> only a current limit
> > at top
> > speed on level ground no wind. With a hill or
> wind the current will
> > go up
> > quite a bit. Does anybody know what a GE motor
> like this will draw up
> > a
> > hill. Will there be spikes while going through the
> contractors &
> > resistor.
> > I wanted to use a 300 amp ammeter but I am
> thinking that may not be
> > enough
> > when hill climbing. Just going to use 6 Trojan or
> simular batteries.
> > Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
Get the speed up to 45 (really 45) with a 300lb rider and I'll buy it.
Make a nice little runabout for me. Too many of the roads around my house
are 55mph limit and have minumums of 45.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
Phil Connors: Can I talk to you about a matter that is not work-related?
Rita: You never talk about work.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of jerry dycus
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 5:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How a simple electric vehicle limits speed and ammeter
limits.
Hi Seth, Lawrence and All,
Interesting you all brought this up. Just today
I sawed up 90 lbs of sq tube, angle steel to make a
trike from a golf cart transaxle with the same motor
as yours.
The front end is from a Honda Elite motorcycle,
I wish it was more heavy duty but it will only be
going 40 mph so should work. All the parts were
hanging around and I needed to get rid of a lot in my
spring cleaning so was already thinking of doing it.
As luck would have a welder friend wanted my
14hp B+S propane power cement floor grinder that
didn't work and I needed to get rid of so killed 4
birds with 1 stone with him doing the welding, steel
work for the grinder. So I get rid of 3 things and get
a nice little e-trike runabout out of the deal, cool!!
Sure beats junk piles!!!
Batts will be 4 or 5 used gp31 Dynasty batts
depending on how fast it goes. Stock resistor control
for now so total costs will be about $250 including
the $40 inspection fee, $20 tag fee and used batts.
Ah, the joy of a nice juck pile!!
I'll probably sell it to raise money for the
Freedom EV project.
I don't see the motor going much faster than 40
mph without overheating and about all the brakes will
handle either. In a hilly area like Frisco maybe a
lower top speed so there is enough power to handle the
hills. It would be a great little city runabout.
300 amp meter sounds about right for the motor
as much more will burn the motor up.
Mine has a 6-1 rear end ratio and will be using
12/13" trailer rims, the lightess I could find and the
bolt pattern fit perfectly as it is a standard wheel
size. The transaxle came fron a very old EZ-Go from
the 60's that the frame rusted out.
Frames to make these are complicated but this
one seems fairly good.
If you want to go 40 mph you will need to go to
12/13" tires and/or high voltage pack.
I hear most GC rears are 8-1 ratio make sure to
check yours out.
jerry dycus
--- Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> sounds like a golf cart motor... the highest
> current I've ever seen on
> my 36 volt cart was about 220 amps, which was going
> up an extreme
> incline. your buggy will probably weigh more than
> my cart, and your
> motor may be a bit bigger. I can't say for sure,
> but I think a 300 amp
> meter is probably just about perfect. Your 'current
> limit' at top
> speed depends mostly on the motor's internal
> resistance (dependent on
> RPM) and the system voltage.
>
> Seth
>
>
> On Monday, January 27, 2003, at 12:34 PM, Lawrence
> Rhodes wrote:
>
> > I have a GE 5BC48JB141. 2HP. 36V. A52 3300
> RPM. I am assuming
> > that it
> > is speed limited simply by the voltage. (My A89
> powered Lectra with a
> > 1204
> > won't draw any more current on the level at 40 mph
> no matter how much
> > I cram
> > the throttle. Unless I hit a hill it won't go
> faster or draw more
> > current.)
> > It is a simple contactor controller. Rise or lower
> the voltage and it
> > goes
> > faster or slower. I am thinking though there is
> only a current limit
> > at top
> > speed on level ground no wind. With a hill or
> wind the current will
> > go up
> > quite a bit. Does anybody know what a GE motor
> like this will draw up
> > a
> > hill. Will there be spikes while going through the
> contractors &
> > resistor.
> > I wanted to use a 300 amp ammeter but I am
> thinking that may not be
> > enough
> > when hill climbing. Just going to use 6 Trojan or
> simular batteries.
> > Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I recall reading an article which disputed the Carnegie Study on Battery
Production Pollution. Does anyone have any information on this article or
the lead pollution topic. I was confronted with this issue by an anti-ev'er
and would like to have the facts.
Ben
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
Sounds like a great project, but I thought I'd throw in a word of caution
here. The motor should handle the increased voltage with no problem. Rod
Wilde is pushing a lot more voltage than that into his cart. The problem you
might run into is the motor coupling and input shaft. they tend to strip out
pretty easy on these if you don't treat them nice and they aren't cheap
(about $100 plus a lot of work). An electronic controller has a fairly soft
start, but the resistor control hits it hard on start. Just my 2 cents.
Later,
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: How a simple electric vehicle limits speed and ammeter limits.
> Hi Seth, Lawrence and All,
> Interesting you all brought this up. Just today
> I sawed up 90 lbs of sq tube, angle steel to make a
> trike from a golf cart transaxle with the same motor
> as yours.
> The front end is from a Honda Elite motorcycle,
> I wish it was more heavy duty but it will only be
> going 40 mph so should work. All the parts were
> hanging around and I needed to get rid of a lot in my
> spring cleaning so was already thinking of doing it.
>
> As luck would have a welder friend wanted my
> 14hp B+S propane power cement floor grinder that
> didn't work and I needed to get rid of so killed 4
> birds with 1 stone with him doing the welding, steel
> work for the grinder. So I get rid of 3 things and get
> a nice little e-trike runabout out of the deal, cool!!
> Sure beats junk piles!!!
> Batts will be 4 or 5 used gp31 Dynasty batts
> depending on how fast it goes. Stock resistor control
> for now so total costs will be about $250 including
> the $40 inspection fee, $20 tag fee and used batts.
> Ah, the joy of a nice juck pile!!
> I'll probably sell it to raise money for the
> Freedom EV project.
> I don't see the motor going much faster than 40
> mph without overheating and about all the brakes will
> handle either. In a hilly area like Frisco maybe a
> lower top speed so there is enough power to handle the
> hills. It would be a great little city runabout.
> 300 amp meter sounds about right for the motor
> as much more will burn the motor up.
> Mine has a 6-1 rear end ratio and will be using
> 12/13" trailer rims, the lightess I could find and the
> bolt pattern fit perfectly as it is a standard wheel
> size. The transaxle came fron a very old EZ-Go from
> the 60's that the frame rusted out.
> Frames to make these are complicated but this
> one seems fairly good.
> If you want to go 40 mph you will need to go to
> 12/13" tires and/or high voltage pack.
> I hear most GC rears are 8-1 ratio make sure to
> check yours out.
> jerry dycus
> --- Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > sounds like a golf cart motor... the highest
> > current I've ever seen on
> > my 36 volt cart was about 220 amps, which was going
> > up an extreme
> > incline. your buggy will probably weigh more than
> > my cart, and your
> > motor may be a bit bigger. I can't say for sure,
> > but I think a 300 amp
> > meter is probably just about perfect. Your 'current
> > limit' at top
> > speed depends mostly on the motor's internal
> > resistance (dependent on
> > RPM) and the system voltage.
> >
> > Seth
> >
> >
> > On Monday, January 27, 2003, at 12:34 PM, Lawrence
> > Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > > I have a GE 5BC48JB141. 2HP. 36V. A52 3300
> > RPM. I am assuming
> > > that it
> > > is speed limited simply by the voltage. (My A89
> > powered Lectra with a
> > > 1204
> > > won't draw any more current on the level at 40 mph
> > no matter how much
> > > I cram
> > > the throttle. Unless I hit a hill it won't go
> > faster or draw more
> > > current.)
> > > It is a simple contactor controller. Rise or lower
> > the voltage and it
> > > goes
> > > faster or slower. I am thinking though there is
> > only a current limit
> > > at top
> > > speed on level ground no wind. With a hill or
> > wind the current will
> > > go up
> > > quite a bit. Does anybody know what a GE motor
> > like this will draw up
> > > a
> > > hill. Will there be spikes while going through the
> > contractors &
> > > resistor.
> > > I wanted to use a 300 amp ammeter but I am
> > thinking that may not be
> > > enough
> > > when hill climbing. Just going to use 6 Trojan or
> > simular batteries.
> > > Lawrence Rhodes....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> >
> > http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seems that a Radio Shack #275-1548 momentary switch will almost fit in
stock. The hole must be enlarged using a letter i drill(.269") careful not
to twist the holder off. A ratfile might be the best approach. This is for
the foot brake. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 12:02 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute
> charge to 80%)
>
>
> 1sclunn wrote:
> > I have noticed this also on the bulk charge. When the amps going in
> > (say 25amps) equals the neg ah on the E-meter (-25ah), then the
> > voltage is usually around 13.8 v (on golf cart bats). I've also
> > noticed that it doesn't take much more amps than ah to push the
> > voltage right on up there.
>
> Exactly. This is about the maximum rate that the battery can
> accept current at its present state of charge.
>
> Since your golf cart battery was only at 13.8v, you could
> raise the current a little more; to maybe 30 amps before the
> voltage hit 14.2v at -25ah on the E-meter. AGMs would be
> higher yet, and 12v floodeds with a higher Peukert exponent
> would be lower.
Does this mean that in the case above (floodeds), the dump charge
current would/should not exceed about 30 amps, even with unlimited
charging power available?
Does that mean hundreds of amps is neither feasible nor desirable (for a
modest A-hr capacity traction pack) even using AGMs?
Can the max useful charging current be calculated or estimated for a
given pack, and what info on the pack is needed? For example, 16X Optima
YT in series...
- GT
--- End Message ---
