EV Digest 2563
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EverCell Charger question and miscellany
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: EverCell Charger question - Li-Ion variation
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EverCell Charger question - Li-Ion variation
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Fun with EV's
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 48 Volt charger wanted...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) White Lightning on ebay
by Henry Deaton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Battery capacity calculations
by "Alan Shedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EverCell Charger question and miscellany
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Fun with EV's
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute charge to 80%)
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: When NiCads go boom
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Saw a vehicle a couple of days ago...
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Fun with EV's
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVLN(Billed as cars of the future, now they're gone) Worth Reading !
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Battery replacement time!
by "Yoder, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fun with EV's
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Accessory belts, was:Truck etc.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) ampabout
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Trikes from GC's. RE: How a simple electric vehicle limits speed and ammeter
limits.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Joseph Vaughn-Perling wrote:
>
> Is there a charger on the market that will support the NiZn chemistry in
> the EverCell batteries?
Brusa charger will handle any battery including NiZn just fine.
You just download a charging profile into it and it executes it.
And no, YOU create it, charger just executes what you tell it to. It has
no way of knowing what battery is connected to it, you have to know
what you want. But it has means to create and store charging profiles.
If the battery manufacturer doesn't know, no one knows. You do
experiments and figure it out. Or wait until pioneers like Rich will
do these experiments and sooner or later will share their experience.
Remember, smart charger does not mean thinking charger. Hardest part
is to know *what* to do, this is not charger dependent. Then, have
a charger to execute it is easy.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So Victor,
What are you using/planning to use for the Li-Ion batteries you are playing with at
the moment?
Mark Fowler
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 1:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EverCell Charger question and miscellany
Joseph Vaughn-Perling wrote:
>
> Is there a charger on the market that will support the NiZn chemistry in
> the EverCell batteries?
Brusa charger will handle any battery including NiZn just fine.
You just download a charging profile into it and it executes it.
And no, YOU create it, charger just executes what you tell it to. It has
no way of knowing what battery is connected to it, you have to know
what you want. But it has means to create and store charging profiles.
If the battery manufacturer doesn't know, no one knows. You do
experiments and figure it out. Or wait until pioneers like Rich will
do these experiments and sooner or later will share their experience.
Remember, smart charger does not mean thinking charger. Hardest part
is to know *what* to do, this is not charger dependent. Then, have
a charger to execute it is easy.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regulated power supply. They recommend simple CI/CV alg and keep the
cells at 4.25V 'till current falls to 0.1C. Since I have only two
test cells, I reconnect them in parallel each time I charge (happen
to be about once a week) and hook to my current limited power supply
(Sorensen) adjusted to 4.25V output. When the current falls to 2A,
disconnect. Charging current is 0.3C, 60A for both cells in my case.
Victor
Mark Fowler wrote:
>
> So Victor,
>
> What are you using/planning to use for the Li-Ion batteries you are playing with at
>the moment?
>
> Mark Fowler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 1:10 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: EverCell Charger question and miscellany
>
> Joseph Vaughn-Perling wrote:
> >
> > Is there a charger on the market that will support the NiZn chemistry in
> > the EverCell batteries?
>
> Brusa charger will handle any battery including NiZn just fine.
> You just download a charging profile into it and it executes it.
>
> And no, YOU create it, charger just executes what you tell it to. It has
> no way of knowing what battery is connected to it, you have to know
> what you want. But it has means to create and store charging profiles.
>
> If the battery manufacturer doesn't know, no one knows. You do
> experiments and figure it out. Or wait until pioneers like Rich will
> do these experiments and sooner or later will share their experience.
>
> Remember, smart charger does not mean thinking charger. Hardest part
> is to know *what* to do, this is not charger dependent. Then, have
> a charger to execute it is easy.
>
> Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was there when he sent the message and he asked my advice. I now regret
encouraging him even though I thought he was right. I miss his commentary.
Lawrence Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Fun with EV's
> > I got half way through you post and though maybe John W. had posted
a
> >new story, looked through the e-mail and found nothing ;-( .So I came
> >and finished reading yours , trying to figure how I got short changed .
> >ahhhh what is PDX.
>
>
> PDX is the airport code for Portland OR.
>
> After the big flame war over John's comments about putting the engineers
in
> a cage he signed off from the list. Bob's story did not come from the
list.
>
> damon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A cheap way to do it is to find a Variac and use a bridge. Very
controllable. Need to use an ammeter with it. When it gets to 1 amp or
less you're done. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:17 PM
Subject: 48 Volt charger wanted...
>
> I'm looking for a 48 Volt (for flooded lead-acid) charger. Does anyone
> have one they want to sell? I need one big enough to charge 8 Trojan
> T-125s.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know if this has been posted before or not, but here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400895429&category=6737
You can buy it now for $600,000.00
Henry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand that battery capacity increases as the rate of energy
withdrawal decreases (C-20 capacity > C-1 capacity). There have been
several posts about methods, systems, and schemes to reduce battery current
drain and range extension by using generators, additional battery packs, or
current limiting. I am trying to quantify the effects. There are two
different scenarios.
1) during acceleration - limit current draw or supplementing main pack
output and reduce voltage sag. This is a transient problem.
2) during steady-state such as cruising down the highway at relatively
constant load and use supplemental power to extend range.
I have looked at Uve's EV calculator. I do not see a practical way to
"trick" it for this kind of analysis and it doesn't address type 1) usage
anyway.
I would appreciate any suggestions you have for either or both situations.
I want to evaluate the potential benefits before making modifications to a
vehicle. (I don't have the time and money to do it by trial and error.)
Thanks.
-Alan
Alan Shedd
Oakwood, GA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Jan 2003 at 18:09, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Brusa charger will handle any battery including NiZn just fine.
> You just download a charging profile into it and it executes it.
I'll second this. Victor is selling the NLG5 range. I have the older NLG4,
but I can tell you that it's very flexible in programming the charge
algorithm. I can't imagine that the NLG5 is any less so.
I wouldn't call it a programming lanugage -- it's not quite that flexible --
but it has a useful range of conditionals and built-in variables to test.
There's a total of 5 programmable charge phases (usually the last one is
"don't charge any more").
If you want to see how it works, or at least how the NLG4 works, download
the NLG4 programming utility from this page
http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm
and run it in an MSDOS window (works for me under DOS6, Win95, and Win98,
but I had trouble under Win2k). The program will complain that it can't
talk to the charger, but you can see most of what the firmware can do
anyway.
>From the main menu choose option 5, then hit pagedown and pageup to navigate
through the global parameters (first screen) and the 5 different charge
phases. On each charge phase screen, there are 3 available conditions for
backtracking to the previous phase on the left side, and 4 conditions for
progressing to the next one on the right. At the bottom of each is a truth
table for programming how the conditions or and and together.
(This works with the NLG4 software. I don't know whether you can run the
software for the NLG5 without the charger. I haven't tried it yet.)
Of course you pay something for this flexibility. The Brusa is not a cheap
charger. (If you want a cheap charger, buy a Zivan.) I think it's
reasonably priced for what you get. It's 100% isolated from the power line,
too.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: Fun with EV's
> I was there when he sent the message and he asked my advice. I now regret
> encouraging him even though I thought he was right. I miss his
commentary.
> Lawrence Rhodes..
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Fun with EV's
>
>
> > > I got half way through you post and though maybe John W. had
posted
> a
> > >new story, looked through the e-mail and found nothing ;-( .So I
came
> > >and finished reading yours , trying to figure how I got short changed .
> > >ahhhh what is PDX.
> >
> >
> > PDX is the airport code for Portland OR.
> >
> > After the big flame war over John's comments about putting the engineers
> in
> > a cage he signed off from the list. Bob's story did not come from the
> list.
> >
> > damon
> >
> > Hi All;
Guilty! I enjoyed the story so much I thiought EVerybody else might So I
forwarded it with mine.
Seeya
Bob_________________________________________________________________
> > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you for the detailed explanation, Lee. I hope this was not in the
archives somewhere already...
Comments inserted;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 1:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dump charger with manners (was RE: 20 minute
> charge to 80%)
>
[snip]
>
> The danger is that you (usually) don't know what the per-cell
> voltage is in a long series string. Most of them might be
> under 2.37v, but one is over it. The total string voltage
> allows a high current to flow. The one high cell can't accept
> that much current; it's voltage shoots way up, over 3v, and
> it begins overheating and gassing furiously. It doesn't take
> long to boil the electrolyte. And then things REALLY happen fast!
Oh, joy, positive feedback... The high current amplifies cell-to-cell
voltage differences, and the hi-V cells lose life-giving electrolyte...
Stout equalization required, which only gets you to block-level
equalization... Bonus points for those with 6V blocks... Or individual
cells...
Perhaps breaking the string into segments, one could put lower-V dump
chargers parallel and reduce the inequalization. It would also reduce
the source pack's and dump charger's voltage requirement for whatever
that's worth. I suppose said segments would need to be fairly equal in
voltage and capacity initially (and temperature). More dang gear though.
>
> > Can the max useful charging current be calculated or
> estimated for a
> > given pack, and what info on the pack is needed? For example, 16X
> > Optima YT in series.
>
> Yes, as shown above. It will be 2-3 times higher for an
> Optima because it is an AGM and has a lower internal
> resistance. Your peak current could easily be 150-200 amps.
>
> But, you really don't have to worry about "limiting" this
> current with your charger. Just worry about limiting the
> battery VOLTAGE, and the current will take care of itself.
My concern with peak current was for the wiring and fuses to survive
inrush. Sounds like it would not be an issue for a typical EV.
- GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The loud BANGs were from the rear battery box. It appears that two
of the modules had become out of balance with the rest of the pack
and either reversed a cell or just overheated. I'm assuming that
when the cell finally melted the battery case and the electrolyte
(potassium hydroxide) came in contact with the aluminum box, it gave
off hydrogen, which then exploded. Twice. (A third module also
overheated and leaked, but didn't explode.)
Hmmm... I'm sad that you lost an expensive battery, but it's very
useful to know that I was right about aluminum battery boxes, NiCads, and
hydrogen. Some good comes from this misfortune.
Photos are online at http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm/noBMS.html
If I had a battery manager/monitor of some sort I would have noticed
the problem with less drama. My battery management system project
just became much more important!
I would suggest that you install one of Lee Hart's "Batt Bridge"
circuits. It woul have detected your problem before you mortally wounded
one of your expensive modules.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
> This is a take from ongoing discussion about good donor
> vehicles, and for
> Leslie in Kiwiland, attractive vehicles.
Thanks for the thought. :-)
> So someone, assume in Australia, makes a body kit or kits for
> a common 2WD ute, to make it into a psudo sports wagon,
> possibly with a full fibreglass body
Interesting - I'll ask at my car club if anyone's heard of such
a thing.
> Nice to dream a little, gotta get back to work now.
Well, while we're dreaming, have a look on www.trademe.co.nz,
in the "special cars" category there's a Pontiac TransAm, and
also a Purvis Eureka. Now that's the kind of look I would
*really* like. (If only my fat backside would fit into those
narrow sportscar seats, but this is dreaming, right?)
--
Lesley Walker
Vertically challenged and horizontally enhanced
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
--- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> Guilty! I enjoyed the story so much I thiought EVerybody
> else might So I forwarded it with mine.
Your sentence will be to keep forwarding any such stories, from
John W or anyone else for that matter.
I'm sorry he's left the list, his stories are Really Good,
especially for passing on to others to show what EVs can do.
I know, others can write stories too, but Blue Meanie is
pretty special.
--
Lesley Walker
Miss Guided?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
--- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Despite the Californian ruling, there are few full-feature
> > models available to US consumers. One is the Toyota
> > RAV4-EV-of which under 400 had been sold to date. The
> > manufacturers say that there just isn't the demand. Around
> > 1.5m new vehicles are bought every year in California alone,
> > but there are only 5,000 or so electric cars on the state's
> > roads. EV enthusiasts, however, claim that companies aren't
> > really interested in selling them. The number of "clean
> > cars" of all types on the roads is no more than, roughly,
> > 45,000 in the US and 20,000 in Europe.
> >
45,000 in the us and 450 in the album so 1 in 100 find there way in to the
album . That could mean every time I see a new car in the album 100 more are
born :-) at that rate in 40 years we will dubble the number on the road
;-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's been a *long* time since I've been on this list... The bad news
is that my EV1 (SPACeSHiP) has been taken back by the evil GM. The good
news is that it's time to put our old CRX conversion, CRELTRC, back
together.
CRELTRC needs a new set of batteries. It was designed for US Batteries
1450's and has mostly run with Trojan 5SHP's. Budgetary constraints won't
allow for radical flights of fancy like moving to a VRLA or higher-tech
battery, or even a charger replacement (we currently have a K&W 'battery
cooker'.) Driving the EV1 spoiled me: Not watering batteries for 6 years
was really, really nice!!! Also, I remember having countless problems with
the charger GFI tripping because the batteries bubbled and deposited acid on
top of the batteries.
My questions for the group are: (Please send answers directly to me
rather than clutter the list with replies.)
1) Our experience (remembered from 6-11 years ago...) was that the US
Batteries 1450's (now the EV-145?) were messier than the Trojan 5SHP. If
you have experience with both, does this match your experience?
2) If you had to choose between the US Batteries EV-145 and the Trojan 5SHP,
which would you pick and why?
3) Is there another battery from a different manufacturer that will fit in
the same space and deliver the same kind of performance? Note: I don't
want to build new battery racks or change the system voltage... This limits
choices I know. :-)
4) Do battery regulators make a difference in how much mess / splatter a
flooded battery makes?
5) If you have actual experience with a flooded battery and battery
regulators, I'd like to know which one you used.
-- Chris Yoder Smog, Just say NO!
Director, Information Services, DAR Drive electric today.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.its.caltech.edu/~rcy/
Peace is not the absence of war. Peace is the presence of a system for
resolving conflicts before war becomes necessary. War never creates peace.
- Anonymous
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess you haven't flown into Portland (International?) Airport,
or whatever they call it, but I've had PDX tags on my bag when
I've flown into Portland, OR. Some seem to like to call the city
and environs "PDX".
RE., the charging at work scene, when I asked the building owner
where I used to work back in the mid-90s about charging, they
hemmed and hawed. I asked since I hadn't yet secured charging at
my apt (this was before we put the EV on the road). Then some
years later the building owner got upset since I hadn't asked for
permission to plug in. I felt since they hadn't said "no", I
would plug in to one of their 120V outlets for an hour or two
while working in the evening after a trip down to Morrison
Planetarium in San Francisco (34 miles roundtrip). Figure I'd do
a little work and juice the batteries up a bit before venturing
to my apt hill, especially if I have a weak cell or two. I guess
the owner got a little tired of it after the 20th plug-in or so.
As I understand it, it was the principle of the thing for him,
but for me too it was the principle of the thing.
For me, I walked off the job because of that incident, although I
ended up going back in a couple of days. But a year and a half
later (Aug 1999) I walked away from that great-paying software
dev job permanently, in part because of the April 1998 incident.
And I'm still basically jobless. I've had no prospective
employer interested in offering charging. As I refuse to drive a
gas car in a never-ending daily commute situation, my job radius
is within 10-15 miles, since I'm not willing to drop the pack
below 50% SOC on a continuing basis, I have a big cell-reversing
climb to get home, and with just 120V charging, 30-40 miles is
all I could get in overnight, especially if I had a late evening
at work (a PFC-20 would definitely help). If employers were
willing to see a touch beyond the bottom line and look at the
benefits that EVs can offer the world, and be a little more
open-minded about offering a 120V outlet (that's all it would
take, and I'd offer to pay for installation and electricity),
then my EV commute to work could go out to 25 miles each way,
which would open up East Bay and San Francisco. I had a short
job down in SF in Dec. 2000 - Feb 2001, 25 miles from here, in a
tough neighborhood. I did not even consider this an EV trip
without charging at work, but all parking was curbside. The 3-5
hr roundtrip commute by bus is a lot of what ended that job. I
don't see most employers as being focused on anything other than
the bottom line and minimum hassle to conduct their business.
So now when I drive past the building where I worked from 1989 -
1999, I see what looks like a diesel power generator over in the
corner of the parking lot (I have not examined it closely to be
sure). There is an additional one in another neighborhood some
2-300 feet away. I assume the one in the parking lot is so that
during a CA summer-time power outage or Stage III power alert,
they'll go ahead and fire it up, and have all the computers
running (again) whilst the area fills up with the tang of diesel.
I doubt any thought of a grid-intertie solar system on their
sunny roof ever entered their minds. I did a back-of-the-napkin
calc as to how many watts our company was using to keep all the
computers humming away. Something like 50 computers at, say,
300W apiece = 15kW, plus airconditioners and all. But we're
going to make it painful for an EV'er to plug in once in awhile
and drive away with a couple of kWh.
It's the principle of the thing.
Rant off.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: 1sclunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Fun with EV's
> As I remember you couldn't plug in at work , now you can ? I
know that's
> nice. Yes the "value of an EV is in direct proportion to the
charger" but
> you have to have a place to plug it in . When somebody ask me
about cutting
> there grass I right away ask about plugging in . Its a good way
to start
> talking about EV's. Wouldn't it be nice to tell your employer
you can't work
> for them unless you have easy access to a plug. With the set
up I have in
> my work truck (to big transformers) if I can get to a 240 plug
I can pump in
> 40 amp easy . allot of the water pumps are on 240 but have
small brakers so
> I go for the dyer outlet if possible.
> I got half way through you post and though maybe John W.
had posted a
> new story, looked through the e-mail and found nothing
;-( .So I came
> and finished reading yours , trying to figure how I got short
changed .
> ahhhh what is PDX.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:18 AM
> Subject: Fun with EV's
>
>
> > Hi John;
> >
> > Cool story! I can almost hear the tires do the Smoke
thing, smell it.
> > It's great to see the Meanie come out of " State" and do it's
> transportation
> > thing, of course a tip of the hat to Rich for the PFC -20, or
is it 50,
> that
> > gives life to the Meanie. Have always argued that the value
of the EV is
> in
> > direct proportion to it's charger. Yur as good as your
charger. The Meanie
> > has met it's match, in chargers. Makes yur day when yu find a
hot outlet
> out
> > there than ya can sip some amps. THAT'S the frustrating thing
in EVing
> > everywhere. It would be so easy to have the streets awash, in
120 AND 240
> > range plugs , a simple way to do it would be to offer
businesses tax
> breaks
> > to them to provide them. Why should Tom, my guy down at
Killingworth True
> > Value hardware, good people, put out an outlet? He duz,
anyhow, and I use
> > it, but he is just being nice. He should get a tax break, or
something He
> > likes my EV, has gotten the guided tour and ride. Meanie
would sure be
> more
> > inpressive, but Rabbbit's the only game in town, so it
impresses with it's
> > silky glide and takeoffs in 4th. no tire smoke, it just goes.
Maybe Out
> > West, advertising an outlet draws in EV biz? Enough out there
to make a
> > differance?
> >
> > Started running the Rabbit, yesterday. We had some
tropical weather, up
> > in the 30's, so I changed the LS CV joint. Pleasenty found
that I could
> slip
> > it out, by pulling the tranny shifting bar, so I didn't hafta
take the
> > whole@#$% suspension apart, at the lower ball joint, so I was
done in an
> > hour. Mostly spent getting the rounded axle NUT off. Socket
just SNAP, and
> > pops off! Bummer, when yur standing on the breaker bar. With
me, maybe 260
> > lbs Foot Pounds of torque. The way I tighten them! I was in
reach of my
> > actheletelene torch, the Brass Wrench, so heated it up til it
gave, with a
> > inch size socket hammered on. I hear you crindging, but ya
gotta do what
> it
> > takes! The nut gave, dug it out of the socket and wong it out
across the
> > slumbering CT meadow. Dust to dust, an all that shit! A new
nut came wuith
> > the "new" rebilt axle. Oh JOY!
> >
> > Put it all together, EVen to the silly little VW hubcap,
turned the
> amps
> > up on the Rapture and went for a spin. I found a good way to
try out CV
> > joints; find some ice patches, put one wheel on it, yank up
on the
> handbrake
> > and spin the wheel away, while yur turning the steering wheel
back an
> forth,
> > listening for the clank clank. THEN do the other side. Yul
find it that
> way,
> > but they are strange. Yu can ring it out that way, trundle
off down the
> > road, in clouds of contentment thinking Oh it wasn't the CV
joint, then
> all
> > of a suddon, " Clank clank clank, or a wheel wrenching Bang
bang, like it
> > was gunna tear the stearing wheel out of yur hands. It's been
fine EVer
> > since, an' anyhow the rubber boot was split anyhow, so it was
over due. I
> > didn't SEE it was when it was in service. So, crap was
chewing up the CV
> > joint, an' I didn't know it.
> >
> > OK I'm gunna take it to work today, sunny, in the 30's
hit it with the
> > Blue Box charger, a few hours and away we go! The car hasn't
run for about
> a
> > month, the Rapture controller problem, got it back a weak
ago, and had put
> > it back in the car, doing short bursts, round town, on the
frozen
> batteries.
> > Haz been below 30 for weeks! Down in the teens EVery day,
knocks the shit
> > out of my range, but I can live with it, as I can plug in at
Amtrak. Made
> it
> > to work, with plenty of juiceleft! Plugged in the variac,
turned her up to
> > 15 amps and walked away. Train , of COURSE was late, it
always is when I
> > make a date to meet somebody, a friend ,for dinner. So I came
back, about
> > half hour later, cranked it up to 15 again, and when I got
back, about 3
> AM,
> > it was, like summer, nice an' juicy! Down to about 4-5 amps.
Yeah! Not as
> > slick as the PFC series, but it works for me.
> >
> > Snowing like hell, had been intown, so I knew we would
have it in CT
> too.
> > It's amazing the climatic weather change from NYC to CT. Ya
start out
> > underground in Penn Station, out to the wilds of CT. Ya open
the door or
> > window of yur cozy EV, AEM-7 loco, in New Haven,and are
assaulted by
> blasts
> > of fridged air, like yu just pulled in to Siberia! What! In
75 mile
> flight,
> > ya think? Finally get back to the car, turn on the electric
ceramic heat
> and
> > dust a few inches of snow off, as the defroster duz its
thing. in a few
> > minutes it's warmed up, to cozy, from the gusty blowing snow.
Roll up the
> > chords an' drive away. Of course the car is QUIET! Tiptoeing
through the
> > relatively unplowed snow. I chose the backroads, two laners,
which I had
> to
> > myself. Wish yu were here to enjoy gliding through the
snowswept night.
> > Gusty winds, wafting the snow across the roads. Passing a
Bank's outside
> > temp gage 16 degreez! Ya know it was windy, but in a million
pound rabbit,
> > it doesn't effect it, any more that training through it an
hour ago in a
> > lightweight 110 ton Loco. Ya sorta feel safe an' secure, at
about 35-40
> > gliding along. Yeah Need more heat, as the faster yu go the
less heat yu
> > get. . But it sure is better than NO heat! Becides, I hava
pair of driving
> > gloves, anyhow. The EV power can be applied so smoothly, I
thought, just
> for
> > fun, take a very steep shortcut home, thinking i can back
down, if it
> > wouldn't. It didn't care, in second, went rite up the
unplowed snowcovered
> > ramplike steep hill. Had to try to spin the wheels. My
Nokeans like snow,
> I
> > guess? I put my foot in it a few times and the wheels, both
brake loose
> and
> > spin, of course the car starts to drift out of stearing
control! So yu
> don't
> > do it long. made it home with plenty of juice left,
gratifying as the
> > batteries came out of their hiatus, willing to do their
thing, but I sure
> > want to go with something, Evercells or LiOns or SOMETHING in
different to
> > cold weather. Til then I can sorta live with 1440 lbs of
lead, for now
> > ,great for traction in the snow! But we gotta do better, I
don't think
> that
> > Its ready for Joe Sixpack just yet, although the care an'
feeding of the
> > Rabbit wouldn't be a hassle to anybody handy enough to run a
Home
> > Entertaimnment Centre or a computer, for that matter. Look at
all the
> stick
> > shift carz still running around out there. THEY take a bit of
cordination,
> > to make work, on the part of their pilots.
> >
> > Anyhow, that's a bit of life EV'wise in frozen CT. Spring
is only 2
> > months away, Think Woodburn, or WhEVer we end up at this
summer? It's a
> > balmy 18 degrees out now! Ah POO! But I'll run the Rabbit
today, I think.
> In
> > the nice things about it. The sky is a beautiful rich BLUE,
sun shining,
> so
> > clean looking outside, too bad it is so unpleasent out! You
just don't see
> > the crap in the air like in the summer.Optical disalusion, or
something
> like
> > that.
> >
> > Seeya, through the gusting snow
> >
> > Bob
> > >
> > Hi All;
> >
> > Had to include this tire an' heart warming EVenture,
share it
> > along.enjoy!! I did. From John, in PDX.
> >
> > (snip)
> >
> > > I had called Marko at the metal shop, to see if he wanted
to go get a
> > burger together. He
> > > instantly jumped at the chance for a bit of fun, a break
away from the
> > drudgery of the
> > > metal shop these days (I'll need to go more into detail on
this in
> another
> > post). He asked
> > >
> > > if I minded if Tom came along...Tom is about 35 or so and
has owned
> > tricked out 1200's in
> > > his youth, so he was excited to ride in not only his first
electric car,
> > but to ride in an
> > >
> > > electric 1200!
> > >
> > > With three of us piled into my little econo car from
yesteryear, I
> turned
> > north on 82nd
> > > Ave., selected 2nd gear, punched the accelerator, and
simply blistered
> the
> > right rear
> > > tire, much to Tom's 'GEESHHH' delight. I drove pretty
aggressively and
> > took the car
> > > crisply up to 60 mph in probably 7 seconds or so with three
full sized
> > dudes in on
> > > board...Tom was absolutely blown away.
> > >
> > > We arrived at a classic old burger joint called 'Jim Dandy'
and pulled
> > into a spot. When I
> > >
> > > got out, I was surprised to see a beautiful pair of outdoor
outlets
> > complete with GFI's
> > > and clear plastic flip up covers, right near the parking
space I was in.
> > We had driven
> > > about 6 miles and the car had sipped away just 5.6 ahrs
from the pack,
> so
> > it wasn't
> > > anywhere close to being tired, but to freak Tom out even
more and
> without
> > hesitation and
> > > acting like I had expected the outlets to be there, I used
the car's
> > remote control, hit
> > > button #4 and released the trunk latch, grabbed the twist
lock-to-120VAC
> > adapter and the
> > > 25 ft. bright yellow power cord, and plugged in the car! I
popped the
> hood
> > and had Marko
> > > twist down the charger's current control so that the Meanie
wouldn't pop
> > the burger
> > > joint's breakers, then we went in to dine on delicious old
fashioned
> type
> > burgers, fries,
> > > and refreshing ice cold root beers....mmmmm! While we sat
and looked out
> > the window, the
> > > EV was attracting a small crowd of gawkers...the yellow
power cord is in
> > stark contrast to
> > >
> > > the deep blue paint, and so it screams, "HEY, I'm plugged
in!!!"
> > >
> > > With our bellies full, we unplugged, piled back in, and
took off back to
> > the metal shop.
> > > This time, I showed Tom the awesome torque power of an
electric motor,
> by
> > pointing out
> > > that the car was in 4th gear and that I would not touch the
> clutch...then,
> > thanks to the
> > > ballsy DCP 1200 amp controller and that stump puller 9 inch
ADC, we
> simply
> > motored away
> > > onto the street, and with about a halfway-down pressing of
the
> accelerator
> > pedal, we
> > > pulled smartly up to the speed limit...Tom was again,
stunned.
> > >
> > > At the shop, he and Marko got out, we said our goodbyes,
and with the
> > front tires turned
> > > and the car on an incline in the parking lot, I mashed the
GO pedal down
> > and did a
> > > righteous smoke show! Tom's mouth hung open and Marko just
shook his
> head
> > as if to say,
> > > "There goes Wayland again". I let off the throttle at the
street
> entrance,
> > first looked
> > > around for cops, then turned left while in 3rd gear from a
dead stop. It
> > had rained
> > > yesterday, but today it's sunny and dry again, so the
streets have just
> a
> > hint of wetness
> > > on them in places....this was ideal for a 'See Ya tire
ignition
> > sequence.'....I could see
> > > in my rear view mirror that Tom hadn't gotten enough yet
and that he and
> > Marko were
> > > watching to see if the tires would be punished some
more....yup!....I
> > hammered down the
> > > pedal and the tires both spun wildly with a very satisfying
constant
> > squeal that lasted
> > > for an entire block, leaving a good cloud of smoke in my
wake.
> > >
> > > I got back to the Wayland EV Juice Bar with just 15.4 ahrs
gone from the
> > pack and a
> > > healthy 160V reading on the Emeter, twisted the PFC20's
current knob all
> > the way up (as it
> > >
> > > usually is), and plugged into the 240VAC supply. By the
time I get done
> > typing this to
> > > you, the Meanie will be topped off and ready to rock again.
> > >
> > > See Ya........John
> > >
> > > A nice winter blah's fighting story!
> > >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:37 28/01/03 -0800, you wrote:
<snip>
>> Another option if you're out of length-wise space would be to put
>> a 'lay' shaft alongside the motor, with the clutch on the end of
>> the lay shaft, stepped back from the end of the motor so you only
>> need enough space for the pulley and belt. Off that lay shaft you
>> can run anything else - Vac. pump or whatever, spaced as needed
>> in the motor bay.
>
>I don't understand this. Do you mean a shaft, with its own bearings,
>parallel to the motor shaft and running right beside it, with a belt
>driving it from the end of the motor? And then using another belt or
>whatever to drive the actual accessory load devices?
Yes, exactly. I'll try my hand at Ascii sketch if the Master will bear with
me:
On my Fathers' boat the problem was a tapering space, with the auxiliary
pulley on the narrow end, with no space at that end for the auxiliary item
(the alternator). So I "found" him some self-aligning bearings, and it went
something like this:
( # are the belts)
(alternator)
____
| | \ \(unavailable
| |=\#/ \ \ area)
| |=/#\ \ \__________
| | # \___________
------ #
|XX| # |XX|
lay =====\#/===========\#/
shaft=====/#\===========/#\
|XX| |XX| #
================= #
|bearing bearing| #
| | #
| | |\#/|
| (diesel | | # |
| engine) |=| # |
end end
without with
accessory accessory
drive drive
With no space alongside the diesel, it went on top.
If I needed to drive an accessory in my Daihatsu, I have no space at the
front of the motor bay, so I can't put an accessory there. But there is
space further back, so in the case of my conversion-in-progress I would
have to look at this method, and possibly others may also. In the case of
having an electric clutch, it would go on the right side of the sketch,
either on the motor or the lay shaft. Hopefully someone can make use of
this concept and I haven't just wasted bandwidth.
Cheers all, James Massey (in the down-underest bit of down-under).
>--
>Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
>814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
>Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
>leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not-a-peep from Intel. After prodding the contract agency, I
found I was not chosen. So, I switched tactics by applying
to a flurry of non-HiTech jobs (Do you want fries with that?).
I have already replaced most of my ten year old battery
cables, and no longer have that lovely hot cable smell at
high currents (quite odiferous - those old cables have gone
to EV heaven). I also removed the conducto-lube paste
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=conducto-lube
as I am concerned that over time it may have broken down.
Armed with a fist full of completed job applications, I made
stops at OSH, Frys, and more. When I approached my local
Costco, and they told me to come back in Spring for temp
work (that bites).
My thoughts had me tooling my way back home drawing
minimal amps (much to the chagrin of the grimacing SUV
driver behind me).
It feels like everyone is holding their breath, and are not
going to let the other shoe drop until the war is decided.
I figure the only jobs that are robust right now are
services for the rich/well-paid, as well as the
home-land-security push. I thought I would explore
being a security guard (Do you want boredom with that?).
So, I headed over to the Mayfield site (one of my ol'
stomping grounds). I passed on mooching a 1kw connection as
I did not figure to be there that long (I put in the EV
charging at that hp site years ago).
I talked to one of the old guards who knows me. He gave me
the directions to his security company so I could apply.
I got back on Hwy 101 heading South, drawing 100 amps. All
was well with the pack and the healthy cabling.
When I got to the Santa Clara office, they gave me two tests
to take (to prove I could do their program and write
English), and an essay to write (why I want to be a guard
- huh?).
I also had to sign my life away to do a background check.
I understand that guards have to get a guard card from the
state of CA. And now they require a hand scan to digitize
you in the national computer (visions of TRON
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?id=1800129842&d=hv&cf=info ).
I have an interview appointment with them next week.
I have so many job applications out there (like many
fishing lines in the water), you would think I would
have gotten a bite.
But, no news is basically a rejection.
Now I have an appointment to be rejected :-/
Heading back I was at -79 ahs out of 100. While I could make
it back, I did not want to push my pack when there is EV
charging available.
I stopped by a private Cupertino location where I have
permission to mooch a charge.
At the beginning of the charge, the PFC-50 was pumping 37 DC
amps into my 132 pack with a surface voltage of 140 VDC.
That 5.2kw was from a 30 amp AC draw from a supposed 208
VAC source (more like 200 VAC).
I killed an hour+, and when I unplugged, I have regained
45ahs. I was not completely recharged, but now had more than
enough to make it back with power to spare.
I took side streets to Hwy 85 toward Hwy 101. In this
direction it was mostly down hill. With everyone making a
mad dash to race home, when Hwy 85 emptied out into Hwy 101,
it was a parking lot (a traffic jam).
But never fear, this is where the HOV sticker and the extra
amp hours come in handy.
I fished my way over left two lanes, to time my entry into
the HOV lane. From a dead stop I opened my controller up
and got up to speed just to slow down.
Oddly enough and to my advantage, it wasn't the EV going
the speed limit that frustrated SUVs in the HOV lane.
The two in the Honda Accord in front of me were stoned,
and only going 50 mph. After a spacey episode had passed
(they were not hearing all the SUVs honking behind me),
they sped up. By that time, it was my time for me to leave
the HOV lane and head for my Hwy exit.
I got back home with -79ahs on my emeter. 45ahs for 17 miles
of wind pushing on the highway. See, mooching pays off.
...
So, if I get the guard job after their training, I will be
earning my pay by working to stay awake from boredom, while
praying that the field service jobs I applied to will call
and rescue me :-o
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James and All,
--- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> Get the speed up to 45 (really 45) with a 300lb
> rider and I'll buy it.
It won't do that but the next size up unit will.
Some carts and the 6-12 pass carts have 3.5/6hp units
or a 12hp GE Commuta Truck transaxle would work for
you.
They have better brakes and would need a heavier
front end too. Find your parts locally and I can send
pics of mine to show someone how to build the chassis
locally.
Another way is to use a GC chassis, look for
rust!!!, body with larger rear wheels and a motorcycle
front end for a larger, faster front wheel, brakes,
lights.
Or buy an e-tek sold to replace GC motors
availible from EV Parts or others to put on a
transaxle. They bolt right up in many.
Lawrence mentioned handling. The batts are only
5-6" off the ground and well placed for 3 wheel cg. I
expect that handling will be quite good based on my
experience with 4 other EV trikes. It's amazing how
well they handle with the batts so low and balanced as
only can be done with an EV. Not as good as a trike
with 2 wheels in the front but as good as most cars on
the road.
Dan talked about striping the splines, thanks for
the warning but if anything happens a used transaxle
is less than $100 normally here in Fla. Lots of dead
GC's.
I'll go to a 3.5 hp unit next time but the 2hp
unit was what I had and the idea was to do something
to get rid of misc stuff.
Resistor controls are plenty smooth enough for me
and most and quicker that most e-controllers. As most
EV speed control is digital anyway, either full on of
off. All you really need is a soft way to get to full
on and resistors do that well and waste little power
as they are rarely on longer than 5 sec. Also I have
them. In a higher power EV that would be different.
>
> Make a nice little runabout for me. Too many of the
> roads around my house
> are 55mph limit and have minumums of 45.
For a lot of people an enclosed one could
replace a car. Think about building your own or
tracking down the parts and letting someone, a
Vo-tech, EV club project, ect do the work you don't
know how. 45 mph open and 55/60 mph enclosed are
possible with a 3.5hp or larger. BTW the 3.5 hp 36vdc
GE motor is equal to the ADC A89 more or less.
A Vo-tech school would be a great place as it
would introduce them to EV's spreading the word as
well as making more EV tech's, builders.
Using used parts, new chassis you could with
shopping get one built for under $2k.
I will build some types of custom EV's but
shipping costs too much for this unit, I believe.
HTH,
jerry dycus
>
> James
>
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of jerry dycus
> Subject: Re: How a simple electric vehicle limits
> speed and ammeter
> limits.
>
>
> Hi Seth, Lawrence and All,
> Interesting you all brought this up. Just
> today
> I sawed up 90 lbs of sq tube, angle steel to make a
> trike from a golf cart transaxle with the same motor
> as yours.
> The front end is from a Honda Elite
> motorcycle,
> I wish it was more heavy duty but it will only be
> going 40 mph so should work. All the parts were
> hanging around and I needed to get rid of a lot in
> my
> spring cleaning so was already thinking of doing it.
>
> As luck would have a welder friend wanted my
> 14hp B+S propane power cement floor grinder that
> didn't work and I needed to get rid of so killed 4
> birds with 1 stone with him doing the welding, steel
> work for the grinder. So I get rid of 3 things and
> get
> a nice little e-trike runabout out of the deal,
> cool!!
> Sure beats junk piles!!!
> Batts will be 4 or 5 used gp31 Dynasty batts
> depending on how fast it goes. Stock resistor
> control
> for now so total costs will be about $250 including
> the $40 inspection fee, $20 tag fee and used batts.
> Ah, the joy of a nice juck pile!!
> I'll probably sell it to raise money for the
> Freedom EV project.
> I don't see the motor going much faster than
> 40
> mph without overheating and about all the brakes
> will
> handle either. In a hilly area like Frisco maybe a
> lower top speed so there is enough power to handle
> the
> hills. It would be a great little city runabout.
> 300 amp meter sounds about right for the
> motor
> as much more will burn the motor up.
> Mine has a 6-1 rear end ratio and will be
> using
> 12/13" trailer rims, the lightess I could find and
> the
> bolt pattern fit perfectly as it is a standard wheel
> size. The transaxle came fron a very old EZ-Go from
> the 60's that the frame rusted out.
> Frames to make these are complicated but this
> one seems fairly good.
> If you want to go 40 mph you will need to go
> to
> 12/13" tires and/or high voltage pack.
> I hear most GC rears are 8-1 ratio make sure
> to
> check yours out.
> jerry dycus
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