EV Digest 2567
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(BYD buys Xian Zhen Chuan to develop EVs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Car is electric for its creator)-long
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: When NiCads go boom
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(The media did not hear the scathing EV+ driver criticism)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(JOBS - Engineer: hybrid; Electric motor)-long
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Hydrogen Fuel Cell / Battery Hybrid
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: EVLN(The media did not hear the scathing EV+ driver criticism)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: A.C. relays
by "Ashley Roll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EVLN(The media did not hear the scathing EV+ driver criticism
)
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: [EVList] Re: Fun with EV's
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Measuring Current
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery replacement time!
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Measuring Current
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric Renault Express Vans
by "Schacherl Jens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(BYD buys Xian Zhen Chuan to develop EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/thestandard/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=36820&intcatid=2
BYD to spend $702m on electric car firm Staff reporter
BYD, the mainland's largest rechargeable battery maker, will
invest 90 million yuan (HK$85 million) over three years to
develop electric cars and its current fuel car business.
BYD last Thursday announced it would acquire a 77 per cent
stake in a state-owned carmaker, Xian Zhen Chuan Automobile,
for 269.5 million yuan in cash.
The price represents a 6.4 per cent premium to Xian Zhen
Chuan's estimated net asset value as at November 30, 2002.
But analysts and investors were sceptical about the move,
saying it was a risk for BYD to deviate from its core
business and the battery maker did not necessarily have the
management expertise to run a car company.
BYD chairman Wang Chuan-fu said the management would invest
a total of 90 million yuan over three years to develop
electric cars, according to Solomon Smith Barney analyst
Chong Ghee Peh.
Chong said Wang would reconsider the extent of any
additional capital expenditure after 90 million yuan had
been spent, if the car project was progressing more slowly
than expected.
``We view the auto investment as longer-term payoff and have
not forecast any profit contribution,'' he said. ``We
believe BYD core business is undervalued at current
prices.''
Chong said Solomon maintained its ``outperform'' rating on
BYD with a target price of HK$18.65.
Xian Zhen Chuan makes cars under the ``Flyer'' brand. It
posted a net profit of 726,000 yuan in the year ended last
December 31 on turnover of 621.75 million yuan. At the end
of last December, the carmaker had unaudited net tangible
assets of 401.27 million yuan.
BYD said the acquisition would be funded by its operating
cash flow without using proceeds from its Hong Kong listing
last July.
Shares of BYD surged 8.03 per cent to HK$13.45 yesterday
after falling two days in a row from HK$18 to HK$12.50 on
the poor sentiment about the purchase.
29 January 2003 / 12:33 AM
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Car is electric for its creator)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://archives.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/archives/localnews/2003/nl/01-22-03-8797.html
Car is electric for its creator
BY DARCY HENDRICKS STAFF WRITER
In the parking lot of Lincoln Middle School, in Park Ridge,
sits a maroon 1994 Ford Escort station wagon.
It looks just like your average gas-powered Ford Escort
wagon.
But it?s not!
Last summer, Timothy Moore, an industrial technology teacher
at Park Ridge/Niles Elementary School District 64, converted
his ?94 station wagon into an electric car.
Instead of a gasoline engine under the hood, the station
wagon has a motor, controller, batteries and battery
charger.
Learning experience
It?s not that I have something against gas cars,? Moore
said. ?It?s just that I wanted to learn more about
electricity and cars.?
A resident of Hillside, Moore is a former electronics and
electricity teacher at Proviso West High School in that
village. When he came to Park Ridge to teach, about two
years ago, he said, he met a student Karl Karrasch who was
interested in learning more about electronics.
Able to work with students on drafting, plastics and
woodworking during the school day, Moore said he told
Karrasch to round up half-dozen students who may be
interested in participating in an after-school Team Leisure
Club on electricity/electronics.
Karrasch, an eighth grader, said he gathered the six
students by the next day.
That was a year-and-a-half year ago. Today the club meets on
Mondays at 3 p.m.
It was Karrasch and other students at Proviso West who gave
Moore the idea of building an electric vehicle.
Begins research
Becoming a member of the Fox Valley Electric Auto
Association about two years ago, Moore said that during the
summer of 2001 he began researching various vehicles,
learning about the conversion and speaking with individuals
who owned electric cars.
It took some time to find a vehicle adequate enough to make
the conversion, Moore said. For instance, the vehicle had to
be manual.
But by April of last year, Moore had purchased the 1994 Ford
Escort Station Wagon for about $2,500.
Conversion begins with the removal of the engine and its
related components, which Moore said he donated to Proviso
West High School.
A DC motor is the substitute for an engine, and an
electronic controller is installed to regulate motor speed.
A battery has a 6-, 8- or 12-volt rating. Moore said he
prefers to use 6-volt batteries.
With the help of members from the Fox Valley Electric Auto
Association, the conversion took about three months. Then
another month to tweak various problems, Moore said.
Other car dies
Before the Ford Escort station wagon, Moore said he owned a
1988 Grand Marquis. Ironically, that vehicle ?died? the day
the wagon was ready to be driven, Moore said.
I was hoping, though, that I would have some time to get use
to the station wagon before I drove it,? he said. ?But it
started up the first time I tried it.?
The electric car is charged up during the night and the
school day. School District 64 installed an outside outlet
in the Lincoln School parking lot for Moore to charge the
vehicle. The outlet can be an average household 110-volt
outlet.
Though the cost of conversion ranges from $8,000 to $12,000,
Moore said he is saving money now. Maintenance is very low
because the vehicle does not use oil and there are no spark
plugs, Moore said. There is a cost, however, to charge the
vehicle, but that is very minimal.
===
http://archives.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/archives/localnews/2003/we/01-15-03-94520.html
Teacher makes electrifying move
BY DARCY HENDRICKS STAFF WRITER
A maroon 1994 Ford Escort station wagon sits in a school
parking lot.
It looks just like your average Ford Escort wagon, but it?s
not!
Last summer, Timothy Moore of Hillside, an industrial
technology teacher at Park Ridge/Niles Elementary School
District 64, converted his ?94 station wagon into an
electric car.
Instead of a gasoline engine under the hood, the station
wagon has a motor, controller, batteries and battery
charger.
It?s not that I have something against gas cars,? Moore
said. ?It?s just that I wanted to learn more about
electricity and cars.?
Moore is a former electronics and electricity teacher at
Proviso West High School.
When he went to Park Ridge to teach two years ago, he said,
he met a student, Karl Karrasch, who was interested in
learning more about electronics.
Able to work with students on drafting, plastics and
woodworking during the school day, Moore said he told
Karrasch to round up a half-dozen students who may be
interested in participating in an after-school ?Team Leisure
Club? on electricity/electronics.
Karrasch, an eighth-grader, gathered the six students by the
next day.
That was 1 years ago. Today, the club meets at 3 p.m.
Mondays.
It was Karrasch and other students that gave Moore the idea
of building an electric vehicle.
Becoming a member of the Fox Valley Electric Auto
Association two years ago, Moore began researching various
vehicles, learning about the conversion and speaking with
individuals who owned electric cars.
It took some time to find a vehicle for the conversion,
Moore said. For instance, he said, the vehicle had to have a
manual transmission.
By April, Moore had purchased a 1994 Ford Escort station
wagon for $2,500.
Conversion began with the removal of the engine and its
related components, which Moore donated to Proviso West High
School.
A DC motor is the substitute for an engine, and an
electronic controller is installed to regulate motor speed.
A battery has a 6, 8 or 12-volt rating. Moore said he
prefers to use 6-volt batteries.
With the help of members from the Fox Valley Electric Auto
Association, the conversion took three months. Then another
month to tweak various problems, Moore said.
Before the Ford Escort station wagon, Moore owned a 1988
Grand Marquis. Ironically, that vehicle ?died? the day the
wagon was ready to be driven, Moore said.
I was hoping, though, that I would have some time to get
used to the station wagon before I drove it,? he said. ?But
it started up the first time I tried it.?
The electric car is charged during the night and the school
day. School District 64 installed an outside outlet in the
Lincoln Middle School parking lot for Moore to charge the
vehicle. The outlet can be an average household 110-volt
outlet.
The superintendent (Fred Schroeder), (Lincoln Middle School
Principal) James Blouch and Jim Wuerffel (director of
buildings and grounds) were all very helpful,? Moore said.
Though the cost of conversion can range from $8,000 to
$12,000, Moore said he is saving money now. Maintenance is
very low because the vehicle does not use oil, and there are
no spark plugs, Moore said.
There is a cost, however, to charge the vehicle, he said,
but it is minimal.
An average electric vehicle can travel up to 65 mph and has
a range of 40-50 miles before needing to be recharged.
Each day, Moore travels 26 miles round-trip from his home in
Hillside to Park Ridge. That?s not bad, he said, considering
the average daily commute is 25 miles.
It saves Moore from using his gasoline-powered minivan for
short trips, such as going to work.
While at Lincoln Middle School, Moore said, he does not
necessarily have to charge the battery. However, he said,
keeping the vehicle charged helps prolong the life of the
battery.
Moore met recently with the Electricity/Electronics Club
students. After they worked on various gadgets, the six
students and Moore headed out to the Ford Escort station
wagon.
Enthusiastically, students requested Moore drive the vehicle
around the parking lot. After unplugging the electrical cord
from the outlet where the vehicle charges, Moore hopped into
the car.
He slowly pulled away and made a circle in the parking lot.
Equipped with a radio but no heat, the vehicle barely made a
sound.
Karl Karrasch was one of the students in the parking lot
that afternoon.
I think it?s pretty cool,? he said of Moore?s electric
vehicle.
With 30 hours of college credits in electronics and
electricity, Moore said he is learning a lot from being a
member of the Fox Valley Electric Auto Association.
If money was available, Moore said he would definitely
convert another gas-powered vehicle to electric.
Not only does it help with the environment,? he said, ?but
I'm able to keep up with electronics this way.?
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Just when I was starting to think NiCads were indestructible (store at
any state of charge, use in the cold, reverse cells "occasionally",
etc.). But... guess they have their limits just like everything else.
Now the question is if fairly simple battery monitoring (i.e. 'low
voltage' idiot light on each battery or such) would be enough warning,
or if some more sophisticated monitoring is needed (like a BattBalancer).
Ralph Merwin wrote:
I updated my web page with the chronology of weird events and ignored
errors, and my theory as to what happened. The web page URL is
http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm/noBMS.html
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(The media did not hear the scathing EV+ driver criticism)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.autoweek.com/columnists/cat_content_columnists.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=columnists&loc_code=index&content_code=06106382
14:13 Jan. 14, 2003) Green Machines and Politics
By KEVIN A. WILSON
[...]
>From a public relations standpoint, nobody handles
environmental matters better than Honda, but then Honda
demonstrates a corporate-wide concern with efficiency deeper
than public relations.
[...]
Honda just put its FCX into fleet use with the city of Los
Angeles. The FCX is largely a development from the company?s
canceled EV Plus electric car, using a fuel cell rather
than batteries to power the motor and an innovative capacitor
system to store energy for acceleration. The goodwill Honda
has generated in this field helped it, when it stopped making
EV Plus, to escape the scathing criticism that fell on Ford
and GM when they pulled the electric-car plug. [...]
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(JOBS - Engineer: hybrid; Electric motor)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
US-MI-Troy-2 -Hybrid Electric Vehicle Engineer :.
Status: Employee Reference Code: 187025
Job Location: Troy 48083
Ref Code: 3397-O0190-KW
Hybrid Electic Vehicle Engineer needed within one of the
OEM's. This position is located in Auburn Hills.
Required Skills
AUTOMOTIVE POWER PLANTS
Engine calibration
OBDII experience
emissions system development
Vehicle driveability calibration
Engine Dyno experience
Torque based Electronic Throttle control system
ETAS INCA calibration tools
LOTUS NOTES
MS OFFICE SUITE
Minimum Education
BS or MS in Mechanical or Electrical Engineering
Minimum Experience
5 yrs in engine controls development.
Assignment Details
Support HEV development with calibration of engine and
hybrid controllers. Emissions system development for Hybrid
vehicles. Perform test and validation (4 season) on
vehicles. Support the OBDII activities. Vehicle driveability
calibration. Electronic Throttle development support.
Thank you for your interest in a career opportunity with
Kelly Services, Inc. To apply for this position, use the
button below or copy and paste the following link to your
browser's address line:
http://64.89.40.20/servlet/resp/rf?jobid=1152100&boardid=1359
Contact Information :.
Kelly Automotive Services Group
100 East Big Beaver Road Suite #1000
Troy MI 48083
Ph: (248)526-0311
Fax: (248)526-0870
===
US-MI-Greater Detroit area-Sr. Software Engineer/Project
Manager, Automotive Electronics :.
Status: Full Time, Employee Salary: USD 70,000.00 to USD
85,000.00 per year Reference Code: SOSHOTSOFTWARE
Job Location: Greater Detroit area
This is a dynamic opportunity to join a leader in
automotive/vehicle software development and engineering
services based in the Detroit area. You will be responsible
for the development, launch and continued management of high
technology projects in areas such as powertrain, fuel cell,
navigation, multi-media, audio, electric vehicle control
system and other electronic controller applications. This is
a technically challenging position which requires strong
development skills and excellent project/customer management
abilities. If you are looking for a stable high growth
career in an exploding technology market, your search ends
here!!
Position requires BSEE, BSCE, BSME or related technical
degree and 5+ years experience with automotive embedded
software and strategy development.
This is a Source One Priority Retained Search, please
provide your resume in MS Word form today!.
At Source One, our recruiters are professionals dedicated to
finding the most qualified technical, sales and executive
talent in the industry today. We use innovative marketing
and career opportunity matching strategies to improve your
level of performance. Our specific emphasis on recruiting
for the interiors, powertrain and electronics/high
technology arena is a key to your success. If the above
career opportunity is not appropriate for you, please submit
your confidential information with your specific desire and
requirements as not all positions are advertised.
Keywords: powertrain electronics controls simulation comet
internet digital signal processing bsr C C++ programming
rots ppc tpu engine dsp ansys nastran hypermesh patran
telematics NVH noise sdrc bruel kjaer sea lms msc nastran
Contact Information :.
Mike Rericha
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Source One Solutions, Inc.
Fax: 440-717-2101
===
US-DC-Washington/Metro-Motor Engineers/Engineering Project
Managers :.
Status: Full Time, Employee Reference Code: motors
ELECTRIC MOTOR DEVELOPER SEEKS TECHNICAL TALENT
A leading developer of electric vehicle technology and
electric stationary motors is building out its technical
organization in the non-automotive stationary motors area
and offers multiple attractive career opportunities for
highly skilled, top engineering talent.
The company's adaptive motor design defines state-of-the-art
and produces performance and efficiencies heretofore
unattainable. By building on technology research for more
than ten years, the company has successfully demonstrated
prototypes of a totally new type of electric motor.
The company has needs for several people in two functional
areas:
ENGINEERS ? Motor Engineering
ENGINEERING PROJECT MANAGERS ? Motor Engineering
Minimum of 5 years of relevant technical experience with
MOTORS
Must have direct familiarity with all aspects of motor
design, including mechanical, magnetic, thermal and control
Must be passionate about success in leading-edge technology
and proven success in developing and patenting new
technology
Additional Information: Competitive compensation
supplemented by significant equity will be offered to
individuals with strong skills and state-of-the-art
knowledge.
Contact Information: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Why not use excess PV or wind produced energy to produce a supply of
hydrogen for those several consecutive cloudy days beyond battery storage
?
Hydrogen supply could fuel a fuel cell powered EV or produce electricity
for the home or recharge the EV at night. A hydrogen refill is
certainly quicker than a conventional battery charger.
How much hydrogen, cubic feet (at what pressure ?) would be needed to
produce say 10 kilowatt hours from a 1 kw fuel cell (that uses air and
hydrogen ?) ?
Can a fuel cell be run in reverse to produce hydrogen from water ?
What would be the restriction on storing hydrogen at home in a garage or
in an outdoor tank. Would a standard outdoor propane tank be used for
hydrogen storage ?
An EV might have a small fuel cell and a battery pack.
Regen braking could either directly charge the battery pack or create
hydrogen from water through running the fuel cell in reverse ?
Menlo Park III,
Bill
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Wait a minute.
With all the help of the EV community, and their CARB
quota met, it was Honda that quit making EVs first.
The order of automakers that quit making EVs was:
1st: Honda - EV plus
2nd: GM - EV1
3rd: Ford - all EVs
4th: Toyota - RAV4 EV
You know media pieces like that one twist and turn the
truth around to make their funder look good.
Let the truth be known and spread far and wide.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Richard,
Solid State relays are much different then "standard" mechanical ones. The
problem is they generally use a thyristor type of semiconductor device (like
a Triac). These work by conducting (after they are triggered) until the
CURRENT through them drops below a threshold level (quite low).
This means that they will work on an AC power supply because the voltage
(and thus the current) will fall to zero 100 or 120 (50Hz/60Hz) times a
second so when you remove the trigger signal they will shut off and the end
of the next mains 1/2 cycle.
However when used with DC, the voltage (and current) never falls to zero. So
once triggered they won't turn off.
They also dissipate a bit of heat when you start passing large currents
through them.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Ash.
---
Ashley Roll
Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd
www.digitalnemesis.com
Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Richard Millhouse
> Sent: Friday, 31 January 2003 2:22 PM
> To: evlist
> Subject: A.C. relays
>
>
> Could someone remind me about using a.c. rated relays on a
> d.c. circuit? .Do you put a big diode across the a.c. side of
> the relay? I've got a solid state relay that I would like to
> use for my ceramic heater. Thanks,
>
> Uncle Rich in Central Oregon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> Wait a minute.
> With all the help of the EV community, and their CARB
> quota met, it was Honda that quit making EVs first.
Ah, but that was long ago in media terms (last year? year before?)
and the media have forgotten all about it.
--
Lesley Walker
(Soon to be redundant from) EDS New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
--- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck -
> If employers were
> willing to see a touch beyond the bottom line and look at the
> benefits that EVs can offer the world, and be a little more
> open-minded about offering a 120V outlet (that's all it would
> take, and I'd offer to pay for installation and electricity),
> then my EV commute to work could go out to 25 miles each way,
> which would open up East Bay and San Francisco.
Unfortunately it's more than 25 miles from Larkspur, but for what it's
worth here at Microsoft in Mountain View we have 208V / 50A charging
stations. They're conductive, so it's only Sparrows that use them, but
my point is, companies like what you're looking for do exist....
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Hursch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVList] Re: Fun with EV's
I guess you haven't flown into Portland (International?) Airport,
or whatever they call it, but I've had PDX tags on my bag when
I've flown into Portland, OR. Some seem to like to call the city
and environs "PDX".
RE., the charging at work scene, when I asked the building owner
where I used to work back in the mid-90s about charging, they
hemmed and hawed. I asked since I hadn't yet secured charging at
my apt (this was before we put the EV on the road). Then some
years later the building owner got upset since I hadn't asked for
permission to plug in. I felt since they hadn't said "no", I
would plug in to one of their 120V outlets for an hour or two
while working in the evening after a trip down to Morrison
Planetarium in San Francisco (34 miles roundtrip). Figure I'd do
a little work and juice the batteries up a bit before venturing
to my apt hill, especially if I have a weak cell or two. I guess
the owner got a little tired of it after the 20th plug-in or so.
As I understand it, it was the principle of the thing for him,
but for me too it was the principle of the thing.
For me, I walked off the job because of that incident, although I
ended up going back in a couple of days. But a year and a half
later (Aug 1999) I walked away from that great-paying software
dev job permanently, in part because of the April 1998 incident.
And I'm still basically jobless. I've had no prospective
employer interested in offering charging. As I refuse to drive a
gas car in a never-ending daily commute situation, my job radius
is within 10-15 miles, since I'm not willing to drop the pack
below 50% SOC on a continuing basis, I have a big cell-reversing
climb to get home, and with just 120V charging, 30-40 miles is
all I could get in overnight, especially if I had a late evening
at work (a PFC-20 would definitely help). If employers were
willing to see a touch beyond the bottom line and look at the
benefits that EVs can offer the world, and be a little more
open-minded about offering a 120V outlet (that's all it would
take, and I'd offer to pay for installation and electricity),
then my EV commute to work could go out to 25 miles each way,
which would open up East Bay and San Francisco. I had a short
job down in SF in Dec. 2000 - Feb 2001, 25 miles from here, in a
tough neighborhood. I did not even consider this an EV trip
without charging at work, but all parking was curbside. The 3-5
hr roundtrip commute by bus is a lot of what ended that job. I
don't see most employers as being focused on anything other than
the bottom line and minimum hassle to conduct their business.
So now when I drive past the building where I worked from 1989 -
1999, I see what looks like a diesel power generator over in the
corner of the parking lot (I have not examined it closely to be
sure). There is an additional one in another neighborhood some
2-300 feet away. I assume the one in the parking lot is so that
during a CA summer-time power outage or Stage III power alert,
they'll go ahead and fire it up, and have all the computers
running (again) whilst the area fills up with the tang of diesel.
I doubt any thought of a grid-intertie solar system on their
sunny roof ever entered their minds. I did a back-of-the-napkin
calc as to how many watts our company was using to keep all the
computers humming away. Something like 50 computers at, say,
300W apiece = 15kW, plus airconditioners and all. But we're
going to make it painful for an EV'er to plug in once in awhile
and drive away with a couple of kWh.
It's the principle of the thing.
Rant off.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: 1sclunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Fun with EV's
> As I remember you couldn't plug in at work , now you can ? I
know that's
> nice. Yes the "value of an EV is in direct proportion to the
charger" but
> you have to have a place to plug it in . When somebody ask me
about cutting
> there grass I right away ask about plugging in . Its a good way
to start
> talking about EV's. Wouldn't it be nice to tell your employer
you can't work
> for them unless you have easy access to a plug. With the set
up I have in
> my work truck (to big transformers) if I can get to a 240 plug
I can pump in
> 40 amp easy . allot of the water pumps are on 240 but have
small brakers so
> I go for the dyer outlet if possible.
> I got half way through you post and though maybe John W.
had posted a
> new story, looked through the e-mail and found nothing
;-( .So I came
> and finished reading yours , trying to figure how I got short
changed .
> ahhhh what is PDX.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:18 AM
> Subject: Fun with EV's
>
>
> > Hi John;
> >
> > Cool story! I can almost hear the tires do the Smoke
thing, smell it.
> > It's great to see the Meanie come out of " State" and do it's
> transportation
> > thing, of course a tip of the hat to Rich for the PFC -20, or
is it 50,
> that
> > gives life to the Meanie. Have always argued that the value
of the EV is
> in
> > direct proportion to it's charger. Yur as good as your
charger. The Meanie
> > has met it's match, in chargers. Makes yur day when yu find a
hot outlet
> out
> > there than ya can sip some amps. THAT'S the frustrating thing
in EVing
> > everywhere. It would be so easy to have the streets awash, in
120 AND 240
> > range plugs , a simple way to do it would be to offer
businesses tax
> breaks
> > to them to provide them. Why should Tom, my guy down at
Killingworth True
> > Value hardware, good people, put out an outlet? He duz,
anyhow, and I use
> > it, but he is just being nice. He should get a tax break, or
something He
> > likes my EV, has gotten the guided tour and ride. Meanie
would sure be
> more
> > inpressive, but Rabbbit's the only game in town, so it
impresses with it's
> > silky glide and takeoffs in 4th. no tire smoke, it just goes.
Maybe Out
> > West, advertising an outlet draws in EV biz? Enough out there
to make a
> > differance?
> >
> > Started running the Rabbit, yesterday. We had some
tropical weather, up
> > in the 30's, so I changed the LS CV joint. Pleasenty found
that I could
> slip
> > it out, by pulling the tranny shifting bar, so I didn't hafta
take the
> > whole@#$% suspension apart, at the lower ball joint, so I was
done in an
> > hour. Mostly spent getting the rounded axle NUT off. Socket
just SNAP, and
> > pops off! Bummer, when yur standing on the breaker bar. With
me, maybe 260
> > lbs Foot Pounds of torque. The way I tighten them! I was in
reach of my
> > actheletelene torch, the Brass Wrench, so heated it up til it
gave, with a
> > inch size socket hammered on. I hear you crindging, but ya
gotta do what
> it
> > takes! The nut gave, dug it out of the socket and wong it out
across the
> > slumbering CT meadow. Dust to dust, an all that shit! A new
nut came wuith
> > the "new" rebilt axle. Oh JOY!
> >
> > Put it all together, EVen to the silly little VW hubcap,
turned the
> amps
> > up on the Rapture and went for a spin. I found a good way to
try out CV
> > joints; find some ice patches, put one wheel on it, yank up
on the
> handbrake
> > and spin the wheel away, while yur turning the steering wheel
back an
> forth,
> > listening for the clank clank. THEN do the other side. Yul
find it that
> way,
> > but they are strange. Yu can ring it out that way, trundle
off down the
> > road, in clouds of contentment thinking Oh it wasn't the CV
joint, then
> all
> > of a suddon, " Clank clank clank, or a wheel wrenching Bang
bang, like it
> > was gunna tear the stearing wheel out of yur hands. It's been
fine EVer
> > since, an' anyhow the rubber boot was split anyhow, so it was
over due. I
> > didn't SEE it was when it was in service. So, crap was
chewing up the CV
> > joint, an' I didn't know it.
> >
> > OK I'm gunna take it to work today, sunny, in the 30's
hit it with the
> > Blue Box charger, a few hours and away we go! The car hasn't
run for about
> a
> > month, the Rapture controller problem, got it back a weak
ago, and had put
> > it back in the car, doing short bursts, round town, on the
frozen
> batteries.
> > Haz been below 30 for weeks! Down in the teens EVery day,
knocks the shit
> > out of my range, but I can live with it, as I can plug in at
Amtrak. Made
> it
> > to work, with plenty of juiceleft! Plugged in the variac,
turned her up to
> > 15 amps and walked away. Train , of COURSE was late, it
always is when I
> > make a date to meet somebody, a friend ,for dinner. So I came
back, about
> > half hour later, cranked it up to 15 again, and when I got
back, about 3
> AM,
> > it was, like summer, nice an' juicy! Down to about 4-5 amps.
Yeah! Not as
> > slick as the PFC series, but it works for me.
> >
> > Snowing like hell, had been intown, so I knew we would
have it in CT
> too.
> > It's amazing the climatic weather change from NYC to CT. Ya
start out
> > underground in Penn Station, out to the wilds of CT. Ya open
the door or
> > window of yur cozy EV, AEM-7 loco, in New Haven,and are
assaulted by
> blasts
> > of fridged air, like yu just pulled in to Siberia! What! In
75 mile
> flight,
> > ya think? Finally get back to the car, turn on the electric
ceramic heat
> and
> > dust a few inches of snow off, as the defroster duz its
thing. in a few
> > minutes it's warmed up, to cozy, from the gusty blowing snow.
Roll up the
> > chords an' drive away. Of course the car is QUIET! Tiptoeing
through the
> > relatively unplowed snow. I chose the backroads, two laners,
which I had
> to
> > myself. Wish yu were here to enjoy gliding through the
snowswept night.
> > Gusty winds, wafting the snow across the roads. Passing a
Bank's outside
> > temp gage 16 degreez! Ya know it was windy, but in a million
pound rabbit,
> > it doesn't effect it, any more that training through it an
hour ago in a
> > lightweight 110 ton Loco. Ya sorta feel safe an' secure, at
about 35-40
> > gliding along. Yeah Need more heat, as the faster yu go the
less heat yu
> > get. . But it sure is better than NO heat! Becides, I hava
pair of driving
> > gloves, anyhow. The EV power can be applied so smoothly, I
thought, just
> for
> > fun, take a very steep shortcut home, thinking i can back
down, if it
> > wouldn't. It didn't care, in second, went rite up the
unplowed snowcovered
> > ramplike steep hill. Had to try to spin the wheels. My
Nokeans like snow,
> I
> > guess? I put my foot in it a few times and the wheels, both
brake loose
> and
> > spin, of course the car starts to drift out of stearing
control! So yu
> don't
> > do it long. made it home with plenty of juice left,
gratifying as the
> > batteries came out of their hiatus, willing to do their
thing, but I sure
> > want to go with something, Evercells or LiOns or SOMETHING in
different to
> > cold weather. Til then I can sorta live with 1440 lbs of
lead, for now
> > ,great for traction in the snow! But we gotta do better, I
don't think
> that
> > Its ready for Joe Sixpack just yet, although the care an'
feeding of the
> > Rabbit wouldn't be a hassle to anybody handy enough to run a
Home
> > Entertaimnment Centre or a computer, for that matter. Look at
all the
> stick
> > shift carz still running around out there. THEY take a bit of
cordination,
> > to make work, on the part of their pilots.
> >
> > Anyhow, that's a bit of life EV'wise in frozen CT. Spring
is only 2
> > months away, Think Woodburn, or WhEVer we end up at this
summer? It's a
> > balmy 18 degrees out now! Ah POO! But I'll run the Rabbit
today, I think.
> In
> > the nice things about it. The sky is a beautiful rich BLUE,
sun shining,
> so
> > clean looking outside, too bad it is so unpleasent out! You
just don't see
> > the crap in the air like in the summer.Optical disalusion, or
something
> like
> > that.
> >
> > Seeya, through the gusting snow
> >
> > Bob
> > >
> > Hi All;
> >
> > Had to include this tire an' heart warming EVenture,
share it
> > along.enjoy!! I did. From John, in PDX.
> >
> > (snip)
> >
> > > I had called Marko at the metal shop, to see if he wanted
to go get a
> > burger together. He
> > > instantly jumped at the chance for a bit of fun, a break
away from the
> > drudgery of the
> > > metal shop these days (I'll need to go more into detail on
this in
> another
> > post). He asked
> > >
> > > if I minded if Tom came along...Tom is about 35 or so and
has owned
> > tricked out 1200's in
> > > his youth, so he was excited to ride in not only his first
electric car,
> > but to ride in an
> > >
> > > electric 1200!
> > >
> > > With three of us piled into my little econo car from
yesteryear, I
> turned
> > north on 82nd
> > > Ave., selected 2nd gear, punched the accelerator, and
simply blistered
> the
> > right rear
> > > tire, much to Tom's 'GEESHHH' delight. I drove pretty
aggressively and
> > took the car
> > > crisply up to 60 mph in probably 7 seconds or so with three
full sized
> > dudes in on
> > > board...Tom was absolutely blown away.
> > >
> > > We arrived at a classic old burger joint called 'Jim Dandy'
and pulled
> > into a spot. When I
> > >
> > > got out, I was surprised to see a beautiful pair of outdoor
outlets
> > complete with GFI's
> > > and clear plastic flip up covers, right near the parking
space I was in.
> > We had driven
> > > about 6 miles and the car had sipped away just 5.6 ahrs
from the pack,
> so
> > it wasn't
> > > anywhere close to being tired, but to freak Tom out even
more and
> without
> > hesitation and
> > > acting like I had expected the outlets to be there, I used
the car's
> > remote control, hit
> > > button #4 and released the trunk latch, grabbed the twist
lock-to-120VAC
> > adapter and the
> > > 25 ft. bright yellow power cord, and plugged in the car! I
popped the
> hood
> > and had Marko
> > > twist down the charger's current control so that the Meanie
wouldn't pop
> > the burger
> > > joint's breakers, then we went in to dine on delicious old
fashioned
> type
> > burgers, fries,
> > > and refreshing ice cold root beers....mmmmm! While we sat
and looked out
> > the window, the
> > > EV was attracting a small crowd of gawkers...the yellow
power cord is in
> > stark contrast to
> > >
> > > the deep blue paint, and so it screams, "HEY, I'm plugged
in!!!"
> > >
> > > With our bellies full, we unplugged, piled back in, and
took off back to
> > the metal shop.
> > > This time, I showed Tom the awesome torque power of an
electric motor,
> by
> > pointing out
> > > that the car was in 4th gear and that I would not touch the
> clutch...then,
> > thanks to the
> > > ballsy DCP 1200 amp controller and that stump puller 9 inch
ADC, we
> simply
> > motored away
> > > onto the street, and with about a halfway-down pressing of
the
> accelerator
> > pedal, we
> > > pulled smartly up to the speed limit...Tom was again,
stunned.
> > >
> > > At the shop, he and Marko got out, we said our goodbyes,
and with the
> > front tires turned
> > > and the car on an incline in the parking lot, I mashed the
GO pedal down
> > and did a
> > > righteous smoke show! Tom's mouth hung open and Marko just
shook his
> head
> > as if to say,
> > > "There goes Wayland again". I let off the throttle at the
street
> entrance,
> > first looked
> > > around for cops, then turned left while in 3rd gear from a
dead stop. It
> > had rained
> > > yesterday, but today it's sunny and dry again, so the
streets have just
> a
> > hint of wetness
> > > on them in places....this was ideal for a 'See Ya tire
ignition
> > sequence.'....I could see
> > > in my rear view mirror that Tom hadn't gotten enough yet
and that he and
> > Marko were
> > > watching to see if the tires would be punished some
more....yup!....I
> > hammered down the
> > > pedal and the tires both spun wildly with a very satisfying
constant
> > squeal that lasted
> > > for an entire block, leaving a good cloud of smoke in my
wake.
> > >
> > > I got back to the Wayland EV Juice Bar with just 15.4 ahrs
gone from the
> > pack and a
> > > healthy 160V reading on the Emeter, twisted the PFC20's
current knob all
> > the way up (as it
> > >
> > > usually is), and plugged into the 240VAC supply. By the
time I get done
> > typing this to
> > > you, the Meanie will be topped off and ready to rock again.
> > >
> > > See Ya........John
> > >
> > > A nice winter blah's fighting story!
> > >
> >
> >
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Quick little question.
All of the current measuring devices I've seen for EVs involve measuring across a
shunt resistor.
Does anyone use a clamp ammeter type setup?
eg http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1565
(Does a clamp ammeter work for DC or only AC?)
Mark Fowler
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I thought Nawaz recomended C/30 (3.33%) for finish, not 2%
(C/50)...
>
> That's correct. The usual range is 2% to 4%. I go on the
conservative
> side with 2%. Nawaz at US Battery is a bit more aggressive.
>
> > shutdown when the voltage rises less than 0.04v / cell /
hour.
>
> That's the dv/dt algorithm, used in many large industrial
chargers. It
> works great, but you still should look for the voltage to at
least get
> to the gassing point (2.37v/cell, 7.11v on a 6v battery, 14.22v
on a 12v
> battery, etc.) before using it. Otherwise, an old battery won't
get to
> full charge before its dv/dt falls to less than
0.04v/cell/hour.
>
> > Would 2% produce less gassing but still use the same shutoff
point?
>
> Yes.
>
> The downside to using 2% is that it won't be enough as the
batteries get
> old. You'll have to crank up the finishing current or you won't
reach a
> reasonable ending voltage (or it will take forever to get
there).
And would you recommend gassing every day? Seems that I'm moving
away from gassing everyday to bringing them in just below gassing
voltage and letting the current go way down (overnight). I've
read going above 2.37Vpc causes grid corrosion, which corrosion I
don't know how much of a factor it is in cell loss. I still try
and stir by moderate gassing once a week for several hours (like
about 2.55Vpc temperature corrected at 0.028Vpc/10-degF) and do a
full equalization charge at 7.7-7.8V/6V battery for 2-3 hours
every month. (I quit doing 8A constant current equalizing
charges pushing the 6V T125s well over 8V, since the batteries
seemed to get bent out of shape. The 7.7-7.8V seems to run
closer to the 4A that someone on the list said Trojan
recommended.) My batteries only see 5-12 miles every day or
other day, but steep hi-amp hills. I do have one cell that's
gone bye-bye at <1170sg at 1.5-2 years into this pack, and have
one other that is weak at 1235sg. All the others are
1270-1290sg. Guess 2 out of 48 is 4% - about what one would
expect for failure rate early in the game. Then there is
midlife - oh my...
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking to use an AMPLOC hall effect device on my motorcycle.
http://www.ampsense.com/
Just received one last week and have not worked up a display circuit
yet. Probably will get some time in the next week or so.
At 03:28 AM 1/31/2003, Mark Fowler wrote:
Hi all,
Quick little question.
All of the current measuring devices I've seen for EVs involve measuring
across a shunt resistor.
Does anyone use a clamp ammeter type setup?
eg http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1565
(Does a clamp ammeter work for DC or only AC?)
Mark Fowler
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Red Nose Day 2003: Comedy hilft!
Unter dem Motto "Tut was Verr�cktes und sammelt Geld" rufen Comedians,
Musiker und andere K�nstler zu Spenden f�r Not leidende Kinder auf.
Die verr�ckte Comedy-Spenden-Gala am 14. M�rz, 20:15 Uhr live auf ProSieben.
Mehr Infos auf www.rednoseday.de und im ProSieben Text S. 707
______________________________________________________________________________
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Jens, i'm happy to hear you have the EV grin.
:-)))
> I'm actualy dealing for the Renault service computer you speak about, will
> be great to have it but note that it's not indispensable because we know the
> manual batteries servicing procedure with the control dashboard (like the
> peugeot scootelec)
I thought you need the service computer at least to start a maintenance charge and
activate the "register access" mode on the dashboard computer to reset the Ah
counters? Or is there another trick?
But it was relatively easy to get an XR25 here in Munich (only 7 phone calls :-) so if
you can't get one in France, contact me off list.
> I profit of this message to ask if there is people in USA interested in our
> electric scooter: the Scooler
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/332.html
> note : this is the 60 miles/35 Mph version
> Forgetting possibly the mass production far to expensive, we will start soon
> a little production to satisfy european requests, i'm trying to convince the
> boss that USA ev hobbyist want it too !
> So, on the list members opinion, what will be the US market for an electric
> scooter about 5000euro price, with 65 to 95 miles guarantied range at
> respectively 50 to
> 35 Mph ?
You should also ask the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zappy forum, where all the
electric scooter guys hang around.
Maybe Ken Trough can make an article about Alel in his next Visforvoltage
(http://visforvoltage.com) magazine!
Regards, Jens
--- End Message ---
