EV Digest 2588
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Civic Hybrid Upgrade
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) liquid cooled 8" ADC motor
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) liquid cooled ADC 8" motor
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: General Battery Concensus
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) who had the great deal on ADC motors?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: who had the great deal on ADC motors?
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: who had the great deal on ADC motors?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: who had the great deal on ADC motors?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: liquid cooled 8" ADC motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: who had the great deal on ADC motors?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Order NiZn's Now?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV For Sale
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Money talk (was: General Battery Concensus)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) LiIon batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: LiIon batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Civic Hybrid Upgrade
by "Christian T. Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Custom Battery Interconnects
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: liquid cooled 8" ADC motor
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Order NiZn's Now?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EV List help needed in Florida
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EMotorcycle
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV List help needed in Florida
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV List help needed in Florida
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV List help needed in Florida
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EV List help needed in Florida
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re:Charging safety
by Jon Knepher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re:Charging safety
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: High Voltage Contactors
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
From : Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject : Re: Civic Hybrid Upgrade Date : Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:49:36
-0800 I don't know how the Insight manages its battery, but I suspect
that if
you increase the pack's amphour capacity but leave the rest of the car
unmodified, then Christopher Zach is right; there will be no change in
how it drives until you manage to run the pack down.
But, every degree of hybridization is possible, from 99% gas / 1%
electric to 1% gas / 99% electric. You could modify the car's control
systems (with difficulty) for any desired balance between gas and
electric.
I think where something like this could really shine would be in the Prius.
If you could increase the size of the batteries (or parallel in a second
pack), and could modify the computer to compensate for the larger capacity
(and maybe even increase the "stealth mode" speed/load before the car fires
up the gasoline engine), you could have an electric/gas hybrid instead of a
gas/electric hybrid.
Tim
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<this is the third time I have tried posting this, it doesn't seem to
want to get to the list.>
The local surplus place has copper cooling coils made of 5/8" tube.
They are 8" inside diameter and 12-14 inches long. They look like you
could slide them on a motor. $50 each, I think. I don't have an 8"
motor, but it looks like a visually interesting experiment waiting to happen.
Seth
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The local surplus place has copper cooling coils made of 5/8" tube.
They are 8" inside diameter and 12-14 inches long. They look like you
could slide them on a motor. $50 each, I think. I don't have an 8"
motor, but it looks like a visually interesting experiment waiting to happen.
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, yellow tops are lead acid, NiMH have a limited cycle life, NiCd
seem to be champion for cyclic life, lithium ion batteries are pretty
close to not available, Nickel Zinc is rumored to have a cyclic life
issue, and I don't think anyone has made more than 500 cycles on a pack
in an EV yet.
I would also say that Ni-Cd is the 2nd most available traction battery.
Look to its use in Europe.
There is my feedback, I am sure some will disagree.
Seth
Sam Harper wrote:
>
> I'd like to get everyones feedback and corrections to my views on the
> current state of battery technology, including (but not limited to) the
> following categories:
> -Lead Acid : A good staple battery. Proven to provide adequate
> service, though it does not have a high capacity
> -Optima Yellow Top : A step up from the lead acid. Providing more
> reliable, easier to care for service, though also lacking in the
> capacity.
> -Ni-Cad : A step up from the Yellow Top offering a higher-capacity but
> less environmentally friendly, harder to dispose of, and harder to
> charge. Not widely available, and may require special watering systems.
> -NiMH : Another step up from Ni-Cad, offering easier to maintain packs,
> but not available. Higher capacity.
> -Evercell : I am unsure of its capacity in relation to Ni-Cad, and
> NiMH, but I believe it is higher than the Yellow Top. No proven
> track-record, but could be a good Lead Acid replacement. More
> expensive.
> -Li-Ion : Just recently available in a size needed by EVs (one example
> being Thunder Sky). No proven track record. Has the highest capacity.
> VERY Expensive.
>
> Please add, modify, and delete from this list. Thanks! I appreciate
> the help as I learn more about this field.
>
> -Sam
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone here mentioned it a little while ago. Was it John Wayland, or Damon?
Or is my memory playing tricks on me?
Thanks in advance,
Seth
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 5:09 PM
Subject: who had the great deal on ADC motors?
> Someone here mentioned it a little while ago. Was it John Wayland, or
Damon?
I think it was Damon. I'm not 100% sure, but almost.
Tom Shay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth,
John had the Tropica motors.
Steve
In a message dated 2/7/2003 8:09:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, Seth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Someone here mentioned it a little while ago. Was it John Wayland, or Damon?
>
>Or is my memory playing tricks on me?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Seth
>--
>vze3v25q@verizondotnet
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I mentioned that John Wayland has the 6.7inch ADC motors (from the Tropicas)
for $125. I bought one for my motorcycle. There is an add in the EV tradin
post.
If you want to make this thread real confusing, I have heard that Damon (not
me) from DCP has been making people great deals on the 8" ADC's out of
Sparrows. I have also heard that you can still get one of his controllers
in the deal although I heard my information before the recent thread about
him shutting down his controller production.
damon
From: Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: who had the great deal on ADC motors?
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 20:09:25 -0500
Someone here mentioned it a little while ago. Was it John Wayland, or
Damon?
Or is my memory playing tricks on me?
Thanks in advance,
Seth
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
>
> <this is the third time I have tried posting this, it doesn't seem to
> want to get to the list.>
>
> The local surplus place has copper cooling coils made of 5/8" tube.
> They are 8" inside diameter and 12-14 inches long. They look like you
> could slide them on a motor. $50 each, I think. I don't have an 8"
> motor, but it looks like a visually interesting experiment waiting to happen.
This is making it to the EVlist just fine, Seth. Perhaps your
subscription is set not to send you copies of your own posts?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe that Dave Cloud has some lightly used ADC 8" motors for sale.
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- Begin Message ---
If anyone finds out how much. I would be interested in knowing. Lawrence
Rhodes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:46 PM
Subject: Order NiZn's Now?
> I ran across this online and thought it might be of interest...
>
> "Three Circles Battery Intros M100-12 NiZn Battery
> January 28, 2003
>
> Three Circles ERC Battery Co. Ltd. (China) announced its new M100-12
> rechargeable nickel-zinc battery, which measures 366mm x 175mm x 225mm;
> weighs 23kg; and is designed for use in electric wheelchairs, scooters
> and other electric vehicles.
>
> Available with a sealed construction, the company claims that the
> battery is non-spillable and is maintenance-free. The battery has a
> nominal voltage of 12V and a capacity of 85Ah. The M100-12 has a cycle
> life of >500 charging cycles and requires a charging time of 3.5h. The
> battery is screened for operation over the -10�C to +50�C temperature
> range."
> Source: http://www.powerpulse.net/cgi-bin/displayprod_new.pl?id=7813
>
> Interested yet? Good. Let's get to the good stuff. A Google lookup on
> Three Circles Battery found their website. It's a flash intro... if you
> don't like flash don't click this... http://www.xmerc.com It looks like
> the company is entertaining quotes for quantity battery purchases.
> Here's a direct link to their product line...
> http://www.xmerc.com/eng/INFO_01.ASP
>
> Hope this helps someone... I've only put 40 cycles on my T-105s so far!
>
> -Dave Stensland
> Mead, Colorado
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The drive train is worth more than the 12 grand. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:07 PM
Subject: EV For Sale
> For Sale: All Electric 1992 Saturn SL2
>
> Formerly the Chico State Advanced Vehicle Research and Development (AVR&D)
> Project Vehicle
>
> anyone who might be interested in purchasing Chico State's EV, formerly a
> hybrid.
>
> The Chico State AVR&D Vehicle - the second Saturn SL2 converted to all
> electric power by Chico State engineering and technology students - is
being
> sold. The 1992 Saturn SL2 was purchased in 1995 and was converted to an
> all-electric drive system, powered by an AC Propulsion Electric Motor and
> Controller with regenerative braking and hybrid connectivity. The motor
and
> controller are designed to work with an optional auxiliary power source -
> such as a gasoline engine - in a hybrid mode. The motor and controller
are
> currently powered by 26 deep-cycle lead-acid batteries. The battery pack
> can be charged by connection to 110 and 220 volt household current. The
> vehicle has been driven only for testing and demonstration purposes in the
> past several years and has been garaged since its initial conversion. The
> chassis and interior are in excellent condition. The current range is
> somewhat limited by the state of the current battery pack which needs some
> attention. When supplemented with a gasoline engine auxiliary power unit,
> the vehicle is capable of extended range travel as batteries are recharged
> while driving by a gasoline engine. This vehicle is completely street
legal
> with standard safety features and is perfect car for the hobbyist or
student
> of ultra-low emission vehicle technology.
>
> Bids for the vehicle purchase, as is, will be accepted through February
> 28th, 2003. Bidding begins at $12,000.
>
> For information or bidding please contact
>
> Dr. Michael Ward, Associate Dean
> College of Engineering, Computer Science, and Technology
> California State University, Chico
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Phone: 530-898-4888
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> This sounds like a formula for becoming a mass murderer (of batteries,
> that is). I've never seen any cells matched so well that will stay in
> balance for any significant number of charge-discharge cycles, no matter
> what the chemistry. Without a balancing system, they all depend on
> deliberate overcharge to bring them back onto balance.
I didn't say no balancing system. As you said once, a human being
is a system too, just acting on the monthly (or whatever) basis.
I do not suggesting leaving batteries unattended and it's not the same
as not having integrated BMS.
And Lee continues:
>Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>> By individually monitoring each, compare to average of the pack and
>> boost or drain depending on how far it deviates from that average.
>That should work. I'd try to get some temperature sensors in there, too.
Done.
>> What is it so magic about LiIon cells that scare people so much?
>> I think it's lust a fear of unknown.
>
>I suppose we all "lust" after the perfect battery. :-)
That's for sure.
>
>But to your point, I think there *is* a healthy skepticism about any new
>battery. Historically, people introduce new "miracle" batteries all the
>time.
It pays to be a skeptic. But the progress isn't driven by skeptics
(without risks).
No one believes manufacturer's claims, this is silly to do.
It's like a stock market: you buy expectations believable to you,
knowing ahead of time that some percentage of features is not
going to materialize.
>Over time, people get hold of the batteries and test them in the real
>world.
...
>High price, inconsistent performance, charging
>difficulties, temperature problems, leaks, and short life to name a few.
Sorry, I can't buy these arguments. No matter how good real battery
can be, there is always some for whom they are too expensive or
not reliable to the degree that allow abuse/negligence without
any negative impacts.
I guarantee you you WILL NOT EVER hear the complained that the
battery is too cheap AND too stable AND never leaks AND has
very long life. However if by some magic someone creates that,
I'd still say too expensive (for me), too short life (dies before
my great-grand children have a chance to see it) etc.
>To th point here; no one knows what you have to do to make these
>Thundersky lithiums last in an EV. It's all (educated) guesswork. You
>should only consider these batteries if:
>> You don't need to finish charge (to 100% SOC) to keep the cells in
>> balance. In fact, if you deliberately don't charge to 100% SOC you
>> don't need to keep them in balance at all.
>
>But, this will limit your range right now. The lowest SOC limits your
>range, and the highest SOC limits your charging.
That's what I said in the beginning: you won't be able to use
full capacity. For some, reducing the range from 200 miles to
150 miles (25%!) may be acceptable tradeoff for not having BMS.
BUT, manual checks and balancing by whatever means once in a while
are still required!
>And, it is bound to shorten the life of some cells in the pack. We don't
>know what effect SOC has on lithium cell life, but you can't expect that
>SOC has *no* effect on life.
Let's say no practically significant effect in several month.
This 64V conversion runs without BMS for half year. May be lucky,
but no problems so far. Of course close eye is kept on each cell,
but imbalances stay with the pack getting worse very slowly:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/carboot.jpg
>> There is no Peukert effect.
>
>That's true. Peukert is just an empirical equation, determined by
>testing real lead-acid batteries. But, there is probably a "Tikhonov"
>effect (yet to be discovered, but you may be the one!) that defines the
>relationship between a lithium cell's capacity and discharge current.
Different issue. It probably exist, but affect each battery
equally, not causing imbalance. Manufacturing similarity is critical.
>> If one cell is put in service at 90% SOC and the other cell at
>> 85% SOC, emptying both may leave first at 50% and second at 45%.
>> Charging back just brings them to 90% and 85% respectively again.
>That assumes that their charge and discharge efficiency is 100%, and
>identical for all cells. I doubt that this is the case. More likely, the
>efficiency is something like 90-95% and varies between cells. This is
what leads to progressively worsening balance.
What causes it the most is self-discharge, which is quite low.
Again, the temp must be close to equal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
How many Thunder-Sky cells are you currently testing?
Rich told me that you have them in series with YTs? How do they seem to be
performing?
I guess ultimately you would be creating a 100-cell pack for your CRX?
-Ed
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, a private message...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks,
I was hoping to increase the voltage, as well as capacity, improving
horsepower and decreasing dependence on the ICE, thus improving range and
passing ability. To get the most benefit out of the vehicle, I should just
buy the 5spd manual.
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Civic Hybrid Upgrade
> Not likely. The battery pack is sized for the demand the Assist Hybrid
> system needs. To get an advantage from a larger battery pack you would
> have to reprogram the assist algorithm and would probably want to upgrade
> the electric motor as well.
>
> You would definitely void your warranty. :-)
>
> At 09:23 PM 2/11/2003, you wrote:
> >For the electrical engineers, I have a question.
> >If you were to take the Honda Civic Hybrid's battery pack (1.2v X 120
> >cells) apart, and upgrade it to "D" size or larger NiMH batteries, would
> >you see any benefits?
> >
> >Christian
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electro Automotive is now offering custom fabricated battery interconnects,
both cable and copper strap types. Prices will very depending on length
and end types. For more information, see
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/intercon.shtml
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except I sent it Saturday. About 3 times. So it is late by 5 days.
I "set ev mail ack", so I don't think that is it. And I usually get an
echo from the listserv. But I could be wrong. Weird. Maybe it is my
side, my ISP or something.
Seth
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Seth wrote:
> >
> > <this is the third time I have tried posting this, it doesn't seem to
> > want to get to the list.>
> >
> > The local surplus place has copper cooling coils made of 5/8" tube.
> > They are 8" inside diameter and 12-14 inches long. They look like you
> > could slide them on a motor. $50 each, I think. I don't have an 8"
> > motor, but it looks like a visually interesting experiment waiting to happen.
>
> This is making it to the EVlist just fine, Seth. Perhaps your
> subscription is set not to send you copies of your own posts?
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So if these are something new from this Chinese company, how come the
product page says Evercell in big letter in the upper right?
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, I just received the following email from one of our customers
in England. Is there any EV List members in Florida, preferably Miami
where he could have an Etek motor shipped and stop by and pick it up
when he is over here on vacation. Thanks much in advance for any help
in this matter. The following is the message I was cc'd on:
Roderick Wilde
Dear Justin, Thank you for your advice re UPS parcel delivery
within USA.
Call me unthinking if you wish, but it honestly never occurred to me
that my attempt to buy an American electric traction motor and an
American motor - controller from an American retailer and to have it
delivered by an American firm to a place in America where I could
collect whilst on holiday in America would constitute a security
issue.
Having made that point, I can see in these nervous times why the
idea of a parcel awaiting collection at an airport by an unknown
foreigner would need scrutiny.
Here are my reasons to wish to do this
I am a pensioner in England, with limited funds. I wish to adapt a
Two Wheel motor Vehicle ["TWMV"] from petrol power to electric
traction. Research and advice leads me to the belief that the best
value for money is an American electric traction motor [Briggs &
Stratton], and an American motor - controller [Curtis], to be
purchased from an American company [EVParts, Portland, Oregon], and
delivered by an American company [UPS], to whatever place in America
is best for me to collect it at the end of a month - long holiday,
[I aim to be in Florida from 09 March 2003 to 09 April 2003]
[This is because pollution in England is a serious problem, petrol
in England cost the equivalent of $6.59c. PER GALLON (if my
arithmetic is right), we have climate change, so that when it is not
sunny it is often windy, and I next aim to buy an American wind -
driven electric generator and some American solar panels with which
to re - charge the (probably American - sourced) batteries of the
electric bike...............THAT'S IF I EVER GET THE MOTOR &
CONTROLLER....................]
I HOPE THE ABOVE PLUS THE FACT THAT I SIMPLY WANT TO SPEND SOME OF
MY HARD - EARNED MONEY IN AMERICA IS SOMEWHAT REASSURING
If so, here are some simple questions --
1 Where [in Miami] would it be possible to ask EVParts to send
the motor and controller so that I could collect it at the end of my
holiday ?
2 What would it cost ?
3 Since phone calls to America are VERY expensive from England,
[even"Toll - Free..."], and my email is free with my phone provider,
.....
3.1 Is there an email address for UPS "Internal USA Services"
3.2 If so, is there any [security ...?] reason not to reveal it to me ?
Please help me progress this environmentally - friendly electric
TWMV project if you possibly can, especially if it is just a matter
of an email address............
Many thanks
Ed. Gordon
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While browsing for something else...
http://www.jfairstein.com/electric.html
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ship it to his hotel any time during his stay at the hotel.
They can deliver it to his room or he can pick it up at the baggage room.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: EV List help needed in Florida
Hi All, I just received the following email from one of our customers
in England. Is there any EV List members in Florida, preferably Miami
where he could have an Etek motor shipped and stop by and pick it up
when he is over here on vacation. Thanks much in advance for any help
in this matter.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe, Cliff Rassweiler is in Miami (if he can assist with this).
Victor
Roderick Wilde wrote:
>
> Hi All, I just received the following email from one of our customers
> in England. Is there any EV List members in Florida, preferably Miami
> where he could have an Etek motor shipped and stop by and pick it up
> when he is over here on vacation. Thanks much in advance for any help
> in this matter. The following is the message I was cc'd on:
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
> >Dear Justin, Thank you for your advice re UPS parcel delivery
> >within USA.
> >
> >Call me unthinking if you wish, but it honestly never occurred to me
> >that my attempt to buy an American electric traction motor and an
> >American motor - controller from an American retailer and to have it
> >delivered by an American firm to a place in America where I could
> >collect whilst on holiday in America would constitute a security
> >issue.
> >
> >Having made that point, I can see in these nervous times why the
> >idea of a parcel awaiting collection at an airport by an unknown
> >foreigner would need scrutiny.
> >
> >Here are my reasons to wish to do this
> >
> >I am a pensioner in England, with limited funds. I wish to adapt a
> >Two Wheel motor Vehicle ["TWMV"] from petrol power to electric
> >traction. Research and advice leads me to the belief that the best
> >value for money is an American electric traction motor [Briggs &
> >Stratton], and an American motor - controller [Curtis], to be
> >purchased from an American company [EVParts, Portland, Oregon], and
> >delivered by an American company [UPS], to whatever place in America
> >is best for me to collect it at the end of a month - long holiday,
> >[I aim to be in Florida from 09 March 2003 to 09 April 2003]
> >
> >[This is because pollution in England is a serious problem, petrol
> >in England cost the equivalent of $6.59c. PER GALLON (if my
> >arithmetic is right), we have climate change, so that when it is not
> >sunny it is often windy, and I next aim to buy an American wind -
> >driven electric generator and some American solar panels with which
> >to re - charge the (probably American - sourced) batteries of the
> >electric bike...............THAT'S IF I EVER GET THE MOTOR &
> >CONTROLLER....................]
> >I HOPE THE ABOVE PLUS THE FACT THAT I SIMPLY WANT TO SPEND SOME OF
> >MY HARD - EARNED MONEY IN AMERICA IS SOMEWHAT REASSURING
> >
> >If so, here are some simple questions --
> >1 Where [in Miami] would it be possible to ask EVParts to send
> >the motor and controller so that I could collect it at the end of my
> >holiday ?
> >2 What would it cost ?
> >3 Since phone calls to America are VERY expensive from England,
> >[even"Toll - Free..."], and my email is free with my phone provider,
> >.....
> >3.1 Is there an email address for UPS "Internal USA Services"
> >3.2 If so, is there any [security ...?] reason not to reveal it to me ?
> >
> >Please help me progress this environmentally - friendly electric
> >TWMV project if you possibly can, especially if it is just a matter
> >of an email address............
> >
> >Many thanks
> >
> >Ed. Gordon
>
> --
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not just ship the motor to him in England via UPS? What's the point
of shipping it to Florida instead?
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: EV List help needed in Florida
> Hi All, I just received the following email from one of our customers
> in England. Is there any EV List members in Florida, preferably Miami
> where he could have an Etek motor shipped and stop by and pick it up
> when he is over here on vacation. Thanks much in advance for any help
> in this matter. The following is the message I was cc'd on:
>
> Roderick Wilde
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My friend Jon who is driving a EV truck is in Hollywood about 5 miles north
of Miami '.
He would be glad to help out and show off his EV . You can get his e-mail
form the website www.grassrootsev.com
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: EV List help needed in Florida
> Hi All, I just received the following email from one of our customers
> in England. Is there any EV List members in Florida, preferably Miami
> where he could have an Etek motor shipped and stop by and pick it up
> when he is over here on vacation. Thanks much in advance for any help
> in this matter. The following is the message I was cc'd on:
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> >Dear Justin, Thank you for your advice re UPS parcel delivery
> >within USA.
> >
> >Call me unthinking if you wish, but it honestly never occurred to me
> >that my attempt to buy an American electric traction motor and an
> >American motor - controller from an American retailer and to have it
> >delivered by an American firm to a place in America where I could
> >collect whilst on holiday in America would constitute a security
> >issue.
> >
> >Having made that point, I can see in these nervous times why the
> >idea of a parcel awaiting collection at an airport by an unknown
> >foreigner would need scrutiny.
> >
> >Here are my reasons to wish to do this
> >
> >I am a pensioner in England, with limited funds. I wish to adapt a
> >Two Wheel motor Vehicle ["TWMV"] from petrol power to electric
> >traction. Research and advice leads me to the belief that the best
> >value for money is an American electric traction motor [Briggs &
> >Stratton], and an American motor - controller [Curtis], to be
> >purchased from an American company [EVParts, Portland, Oregon], and
> >delivered by an American company [UPS], to whatever place in America
> >is best for me to collect it at the end of a month - long holiday,
> >[I aim to be in Florida from 09 March 2003 to 09 April 2003]
> >
> >[This is because pollution in England is a serious problem, petrol
> >in England cost the equivalent of $6.59c. PER GALLON (if my
> >arithmetic is right), we have climate change, so that when it is not
> >sunny it is often windy, and I next aim to buy an American wind -
> >driven electric generator and some American solar panels with which
> >to re - charge the (probably American - sourced) batteries of the
> >electric bike...............THAT'S IF I EVER GET THE MOTOR &
> >CONTROLLER....................]
> >I HOPE THE ABOVE PLUS THE FACT THAT I SIMPLY WANT TO SPEND SOME OF
> >MY HARD - EARNED MONEY IN AMERICA IS SOMEWHAT REASSURING
> >
> >If so, here are some simple questions --
> >1 Where [in Miami] would it be possible to ask EVParts to send
> >the motor and controller so that I could collect it at the end of my
> >holiday ?
> >2 What would it cost ?
> >3 Since phone calls to America are VERY expensive from England,
> >[even"Toll - Free..."], and my email is free with my phone provider,
> >.....
> >3.1 Is there an email address for UPS "Internal USA Services"
> >3.2 If so, is there any [security ...?] reason not to reveal it to me
?
> >
> >Please help me progress this environmentally - friendly electric
> >TWMV project if you possibly can, especially if it is just a matter
> >of an email address............
> >
> >Many thanks
> >
> >Ed. Gordon
>
> --
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok. Randy's got another Prizm on Ebay. 1994 model, 4k miles, orig pack
(=crapshoot actually), Hughes Dolphin 50Kw system.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2403401649&cat
egory=6242
I bought one of these last year. Randy is honest, very to-the-letter. He has
no idea if any of these run, he does not care. He got them all as a lot
purchace from Broward Co.
The car has the Dolphin intact, and also has a Magnecharger port. If he says
it's clean, it's clean. If he says it doesn't run, he doesn't want to test
it. He honestly has no clue (mine had the master cutoff switch off)
I tracked the other three that were sold in my batch. Mine had the best
batteries, but all four ran. T&L towing is fine; no problems with them and
got a good rate myself.
The cars were well loved and maintained by Broward Cty and were parked for
about 4 years. Indoors.
Basically, if you want an AC type car, these aren't bad. I know some people
complain about the Dolphin, but there are spare parts out there to be had, a
list to support them, and the design of the car is really quite nice.
Aircraft quality connectors, neat wiring, reasonable safety features, etc...
Plus it will go 100mph, and has it all. Power steering, brakes, AC, heat,
airbags. Even if the motor was a total clunk you could probably put in a
Curtiss and an ADC and have the rest of the stuff done already.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The avcon logic is powered by 120vac, only off the top plug in my drawing (X1-
N1). The logic makes no connection to the other hot; there is just a
green 'charging' lamp after the relay. The second neutral doesn't connect to
the logic board at all either.
When both plugs are live, all but K8 close. If the lower plug (K2) is
unplugged, K9 opens; causing K5 to open as well; leaving K2 only connected to
its sense relay and the open contact on K5; the avcon logic is still powered,
but sees no pilot and goes idle. If the upper plug (K1) is unplugged, K7
opens - breaking the pilot, and removing the neutral connection to K8 (which
could have conducted to the other plug), and also unpowering the avcon logic
including K5; this leaves K1 only connected to it's sense relay, the open
contact of K5, and the 120vac input transformer of the avcon logic.
The reason for K8 is to disable the charger if the two neutrals have a
significant voltage difference; which would mean something is very wrong. If
one didn't care about this check, K7 could be removed because the avcon logic
would lose power with K1 becoming disconnected anyways; leaving just a single
sense relay (K9).
Jon
> ----- Message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:01:09 -0800
> From: Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re:Charging safety was Recipe for battricide?
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Where does the AVCON logic get its power? Which lines from the left?
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the concern over how it could shock someone:
Both plugs are properly inserted into their outlets then Plug K2 is removed.
If the charger has an input transformer with a load on it, there will be
some resistance in that coil but it will conduct from T1 to T2 at the top of
the schematic.
When the power is removed from K2, the transformer primary will conduct from
T1 to T2 causing K9 to remain closed if N2 is connected to neutral.
Since N2 is only connected to K9 and K8, the voltage is split between the
coils on K9 and K8 in series. The voltage must be high enough to energize K8
to break the pilot line or low enough to de-energize K9 to break the pilot
line.
If this condition is not met, then the circuit will put 120 VAC on the hot
pin to K2 that is exposed to the user.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Knepher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:04 PM
Subject: Re:Charging safety
>
> The avcon logic is powered by 120vac, only off the top plug in my drawing
(X1-
> N1). The logic makes no connection to the other hot; there is just a
> green 'charging' lamp after the relay. The second neutral doesn't connect
to
> the logic board at all either.
>
> When both plugs are live, all but K8 close. If the lower plug (K2) is
> unplugged, K9 opens; causing K5 to open as well; leaving K2 only connected
to
> its sense relay and the open contact on K5; the avcon logic is still
powered,
> but sees no pilot and goes idle. If the upper plug (K1) is unplugged, K7
> opens - breaking the pilot, and removing the neutral connection to K8
(which
> could have conducted to the other plug), and also unpowering the avcon
logic
> including K5; this leaves K1 only connected to it's sense relay, the open
> contact of K5, and the 120vac input transformer of the avcon logic.
>
> The reason for K8 is to disable the charger if the two neutrals have a
> significant voltage difference; which would mean something is very wrong.
If
> one didn't care about this check, K7 could be removed because the avcon
logic
> would lose power with K1 becoming disconnected anyways; leaving just a
single
> sense relay (K9).
>
> Jon
>
> > ----- Message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------
> > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:01:09 -0800
> > From: Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re:Charging safety was Recipe for battricide?
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Where does the AVCON logic get its power? Which lines from the left?
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone is seriously interested in this car, you might want to contact
Skip Brown, the manager of the Broward County alternative fuel vehicle
program, to find out something about the vehicle's history. Please don't
contact him if you aren't really serious. His email address is:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
> Ok. Randy's got another Prizm on Ebay. 1994 model, 4k miles, orig pack
> (=crapshoot actually), Hughes Dolphin 50Kw system.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2403401649&cat
> egory=6242
>
> I bought one of these last year. Randy is honest, very to-the-letter. He
has
> no idea if any of these run, he does not care. He got them all as a lot
> purchace from Broward Co.
>
> The car has the Dolphin intact, and also has a Magnecharger port. If he
says
> it's clean, it's clean. If he says it doesn't run, he doesn't want to test
> it. He honestly has no clue (mine had the master cutoff switch off)
>
> I tracked the other three that were sold in my batch. Mine had the best
> batteries, but all four ran. T&L towing is fine; no problems with them and
> got a good rate myself.
>
> The cars were well loved and maintained by Broward Cty and were parked for
> about 4 years. Indoors.
>
> Basically, if you want an AC type car, these aren't bad. I know some
people
> complain about the Dolphin, but there are spare parts out there to be had,
a
> list to support them, and the design of the car is really quite nice.
> Aircraft quality connectors, neat wiring, reasonable safety features,
etc...
>
> Plus it will go 100mph, and has it all. Power steering, brakes, AC, heat,
> airbags. Even if the motor was a total clunk you could probably put in a
> Curtiss and an ADC and have the rest of the stuff done already.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, thanks for the numerous responses. As always, safety is high
in the list of priorities, and of course I will heed voltage and
current ratings on all components in my car. I don't think I'm
comfortable with paralleling contactors as suggested because of the
inherent dangers previously discussed, and I also would like to avoid a
series setup because if one welds, the other's not going to be far
behind. It looks like the best option is just a single heavy duty
Kilovac (how many contactors in the overall system has yet to be
decided). Sounds like a lighter duty Kilovac used in a high current
situation however would be bad news. Thanks for all the thoughts. See
ya on the List
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
