EV Digest 2597
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Current Eliminator News/how can this knowledge help the average EVer.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 1996 NiMH Solectria Force for sale?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 400A shunt and panel meter, $19.99
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Solectria Force Problem
by "Humphrey, Timothy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 1996 NiMH Solectria Force for sale?
by "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Civic Hybrid Upgrade
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: 1996 NiMH Solectria Force for sale?
by "amadare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Current Eliminator News/how can this knowledge help the average EVer.
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Wide power band for Lawrence's cycle
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Battery Management System ideas
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Battery Management System ideas
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Drag Racing north bay
by "Brian D. Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Batt management system
by Eric Penne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Battery Management and Regulators
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Drag Racing north bay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) RE: Tilley Scam Exposed in the Media
by "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Battery Management and Regulators
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV speed record
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) FYI: SIA on EV1
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DE-sulfation? pulse charging
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Drag Racing north bay
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery Management System ideas
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery Management System ideas
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Tilley Scam Exposed in the Media
by Lesley Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EV speed record
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Dennis. So I guess what you are saying is that the set point for
most electric motors is a fixed compromise and for best performance a
distributor advance and retard like an ice would help power and efficency.
Could I do this with a small cable and sort of seat of the pants it? If I
do make the motor seem to perform better (go a little faster or use less
amps) is there a danger of motor damage even if it feels faster or uses less
amps? Is there a ratio that would relate to the potbox that would stay the
same and work off that? Are there any graphs on the relationship between
rpm advance and power/efficency? Thanks for any info from anyone. Using a
one speed is a challenge for speed if you still want to climb hills. Seems
the Sparrow people might benefit from such a system. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Current Eliminator News/how can this knowledge help the average
EVer.
> Hi Lawrence,I am not sure that a brush advancing system such as I am using
> would work well on a street machine.My brushes automatily start out in an
> advanced position when doing the burnout.This keep the brush arcing down
when
> the motor rpms go over 6000rpm in less than1.2sec.I then bring the brushes
> closer to netural on the stageing line before I click on the second amber
> bulb.After the car leaves the line a adjustable timing delay occurs then
the
> brushes move to a more advanced position down track.The mech. has been
built
> into a pretty much stock brush housing on my ge type motor.So the effect
is
> lots of torque off the line and the motor wants to spin faster at the top
end
> of the qt.mile.Otmars new hairball controller may someday position the
> brushes correctly at any point on the track.Rich Rudman and Father Time
have
> also created a mech. that moves the brushes but for 30 times less than
what I
> have spent on mine.I feel my system is worth an extra second and at
> least15mph in the qt. mile.
> I would like to see the Wisemen on the list comment further as I am
only
> a drag racer. nedra OUTLAW
Dennis
> KILL A WATT Berube currenteliminator.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
Open letter to Dave Roden, and other Ohioeans. Have ya checked this one
out. If the car wasn't anygood, maybe the battery pack? Is good. But I can't
get there, linlk doesn't work, anyhow. Gahanna anywhere Akron??May ya have
checked this one out?
Seeya
Bob
>
> Speaking of Force's in need of repair... this goes back to October 28,
> 2002 so I don't know if it is still for sale:
>
> American Electric Power in Ohio has a 1996 with NiMH pack for sale. It
> apprarently has some problems where it "cuts out all at once" and rather
> than make more repairs they want to sell it.
>
> http://www.solectria.com/downloads/force96.pdf
>
> Kevin Dinan, 614-883-7622, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tom Lang, 614-883-7624, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> AMERICAN ELECTRIC POWER
> 700 Morrison Road Gahanna, OH 43230
>
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S-10
> 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just picked this up on eBay.
Only 400A, but that's fine for what I want. They say they have more.
It seemed a good deal to me. Probably overkill for an elec-trak.
Seth
--------------------------------------------------------------------
You were high bidder on my following item(s)...
Ebay #:2507831042
Description: We have more of these available. If you are interested
please contact us at 603-672-1223.
eBay Listing #: 2507831042
Description: MODUTEC DC AMMETER 0-400 AMPS & 400 AMP SHUNT
Price: $19.99
Your Bid: $19.99
Shipping,Handling & Insurance:$6.00
**We self insure all USPS packages to the lower 48 contiguous states**
Your total is:$25.99
Shipping price based on the lower 48 contiguous states.
For rates on International shipments & Shipments to Hawaii and Alaska
- Please Email
Us
**Please be advised!!** **There is a $5.00 service charge for all international
shipments
in addition to actual shipping charges. **
We are not responsible for ANY custom charges that may be assesed.
Credit Card (we DO NOT accept Paypal) - call (603) 672-1223, or Fax 603-672-0822
BUYERS Phone number must accompany all credit cards purchases! Our
hours of
operation
are 10:00-5:00 EST every day.
Please send check or money order with Ebay # to:
Golden Opportunities
326 Nashua Street
Milford, NH 03055
1-603-672-1223
Thank You,
Brent
Golden Opportunities
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike;
I'm curious as to how you acquired these.
I had no knowledge of them going and I'm in NY. Did you get them at auction
or through someone else.
I assume that sometime in the future NYPA will be selling off their
Rav4-EV's, I would like to be aware when they do.
Thanks;
Stay Charged!
Hump
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Chancey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 4:43 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Solectria Force Problem
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I just purchased two 1995 Solectria Force sedans that were
> formerly with
> the New York Power Authority. They arrived Saturday and so
> far I have
> removed the ruined batteries from both cars and replaced them
> with 13 very
> very used Delphi 12 volt units just two confirm the things
> work before I
> buy new batteries. Both cars seem to charge correctly, but
> neither one
> drives.
>
> The first car has no visible problem, but when you attempt to
> operate it,
> all you get is a faint high pitched peeping noise when you press the
> accelerator and the AH meter shows power being used. On that
> car the
> heater and air conditioner does not seem to work either. The
> AH meter does
> seem to track charging correctly, and the battery heaters work
> correctly. All 12 volt accessories seem to work as well.
>
> The second car has signs of wiring damage, apparently due to
> a short on the
> back of the AH meter control box. The damage does not seem to extend
> beyond the unit itself. After I replaced the AH unit with
> the one from the
> first car I found the second car did not operate either. On
> this car the
> AH meter and lights show no activity, and when you attempt to
> drive the car
> there is no response at all. The interior heater does seen
> to work on this
> car, but not the air conditioner, The battery heaters work, but the
> pre-heat timer does not. All 12 volt accessories seem to
> work as well.
>
> Having not previously worked with Solectrias, does anyone have any
> suggestions? I did try swapping controllers between the two
> cars but that
> had no effect.
>
> The only manuals I have is the small users manual.
>
> Where should I begin? Anyone have a good contact at Solectria?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Open letter to Dave Roden, and other Ohioeans. Have ya
> checked this one
> out. If the car wasn't anygood, maybe the battery pack? Is good.
A word of warning on this vehicle:
At least one person I know of has a NiMH Solectria Force that has had a
battery module go bad. These modules are no longer available and it's
almost impossible to get replacements, even from the manufacturer.
If a battery is bad (or goes bad), you're in for potantially costly changes
to the vehicle, at least a new battery pack and possibly including the
charger.
Then again, if one of these battery modules go bad, I know of a guy who has
_almost_ an entire pack of replacements...
-Tom
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An onboard GPS/map system, maybe a link to get info local traffic status,
<<SNIP lots of good ideas>>
How about a dash mounted switch that lets the driver decide. I know many
Insight owners that wish that they had a little more manual control of the
hybrid system. I am sure it is the same way with Prius owners.
damon
> I have a question about plug in hybrids. The charge controller would
need
> to anticipate
> when and where you would stop the car and whether you would want to plug
it
> in so that
> the batteries would be discharged when you wanted to plug it in. When
you
> are
> not planning to plug in, the batteries should be fully or nearly fully
> charged to allow
> the electric drive to assist next time power is demanded. How will this
> anticipation of the
> driver's intentions be accomplished?
>
> Tom Shay
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have emailed AEP and found out that they sold it back to Solectria.
You can find it on Solectria's site with a TBD price. Gahanna is a NE
Columbus suburb.
Bobby R.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bob Rice
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:12 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: 1996 NiMH Solectria Force for sale?
>
>
>
> Hi All;
>
> Open letter to Dave Roden, and other Ohioeans. Have ya
> checked this one
> out. If the car wasn't anygood, maybe the battery pack? Is
> good. But I can't
> get there, linlk doesn't work, anyhow. Gahanna anywhere
> Akron??May ya have
> checked this one out?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> >
> > Speaking of Force's in need of repair... this goes back to
> October 28,
> > 2002 so I don't know if it is still for sale:
> >
> > American Electric Power in Ohio has a 1996 with NiMH pack
> for sale. It
> > apprarently has some problems where it "cuts out all at
> once" and rather
> > than make more repairs they want to sell it.
> >
> > http://www.solectria.com/downloads/force96.pdf
> >
> > Kevin Dinan, 614-883-7622, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tom Lang, 614-883-7624, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > AMERICAN ELECTRIC POWER
> > 700 Morrison Road Gahanna, OH 43230
> >
> >
> > _________
> > Jim Coate
> > 1992 Chevy S-10
> > 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> > http://www.eeevee.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> This might be the kind of information that some of us average ev users might
> make use of. My bike is moderately slow. I would really like to improve
> the performance. At 48v and 400 amps with an A89 what could I do to improve
> performance. IE: hill climbing and acceleration without degrading
> dependability or hurting the motor. One thing that comes to mind is jacking
> up the back wheel turning the system on. Spin at a slow speed and adjust
> the brushes untill it spins as fast as possible. Is this dangerous or a
> valid technique. Next question how do you adjust brush angle and timing?
> Are there other adjustments I should know about. Lawrence Rhodes.......
At your level of performance just make sure the brushes are advaced, as
far as the factory will allow. Some AvDC motors have extra sets of holes
drilled into the case so
you can operate the motor forward or reversed. Just make sure they are
set as far advaced get.
For reference on my webiste under project 8 are photos of a 8 incher
with the advance holes clearly shown.
Doing what Dennis is doing on his draggster, is just a recipe for
fireballing a good motor. getting the max RPM at NO load on a AvDC motor
will just make all sorts of high amp low torque problems on your setup.
Since advancing brushes just takes the torque away at the low RPM and
puts it up high. With a 400 amp controller you get a Slug off the line
with massive motor currents, and it will REV for ever.
Just stick with the Stock setting unless you wish to join us Racers in
breaking stuff.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
It sounds like what you're after is a way to get some more torque off the line,
and still keep high MPH on the road?
How about keeping the gearing high(numerically) for low end torque, and adding
field weakening at top speed. I've read plenty about this, but I'm sticking
with PM motors, which complicates field weakening a bit. It should be easy to
experiment with. Just strap a hunk of wire across the field winding with a
contactor. Start with a high resistance, that will only divert a small amount
of current from the field. Decrease the resistance as you feel it's working
for you. Too low a field current and you'll have big big problems. Maybe even
a safety so field weakening is only engaged at WOT.
Good luck,
Darin Gilbert
Bad Fish Racing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:40 PM 2/18/2003 +0000, Dave Davidson stated:
I think you will also want to be able to control the charger. The
regulator will have to pass enough current to keep the cell from
overvolting. You will probably want to throttle back the charger when the
first cell reaches 4.2 volts, and let the other cells gradually come
up. This way
I was planning on doing that. Working with a PFC-20 shouldn't be too hard.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:50 PM 2/18/2003 +1100, Mark Fowler stated:
One thing I was considering for my do-it-yourself BMS was to group the
batteries in pairs.
Two voltage outputs, one temp output (sensor mounted between batteries)
and 7.2V to run it all (well 5V to 8.4V)
Plenty of power to run whatever circuit you like.
I've been looking into such a setup as well, but I'm willing to pay extra
for some extra features.
By putting a temp sensor on each battery post/connection, you get to detect
loose connections that cause problems. You don't really save much in
components by sharing the cpu either.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a Fun day, yesterday, at Infineon Raceway ( Sears Point). The crowd
was very excited seeing an electric motorcycle competing against the gas
monsters.My best time was 14.558 sec at 79 mph. Folks there could not
believe how fast it was, I wanted it to go faster.This would be a new record
at a NEDRA event. Current record for this 144 volt motorcycle class is
14.702 set by John Bidwell. All I need is to have two time slips in the same
day , faster than him to take his place.Sunday February 23 , I will be there
,trying again.
MY motorcycle is : 144 volts ( 12 hawker 13's), 2 E-tec's in series, DCP
1000 amp controller.
My best 0-60(feet) was 1.89 sec.
Brian D. Hall
ThunderStruck Motors,
www.thunderstruck-ev.com
707-575-0353
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been looking into a batt management system also. Mainly as a way
to boost my EE design skills and make me more marketable.
I'm envisioning a system with an ATmega16 uC, temp sensor and RF
transmitter chip. Probably around $30 in parts and board. The
reciever end would be almost identical without the temp sensor but
would have an RF transceiver (RX and TX). The reciever would have
serial output (or whatever would talk to PFC-x0 and/or Zillas).
Receiver would be about $50. This is a little on the high end of what
you wanted John but I'm dreaming big and don't have a problem with
scaling back. Potting the unit to protect it from corrosion would work
but would deter fixability. I'm doing temperature testing right now on
something similar. The RF transmitters are in a temp chamber that is
almost completely surrounded in metal, except the 4 layers of glass for
visual inspection. The receiver has been up to 7-8 feet away and still
picks up all the transmitters. This would work well in a garage or
with an onboard charger. I'm fairly certain that it would pick up all
the batts even with lots of metal/liquid around them. The advantage of
the RF is the lack of wires. Less fusing. No losses in the wire runs.
It can be under 1" thick.
Just tossing out ideas.
Eric Penne
PS. I'm tempted to drive to KC to see the Solectria cars. I really
want to drive an EV and it looks like KC is the closest place to do it.
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This discussion and development would be a great thread for the evtech
mailing list once/if you get into the nitty gritty details of the project.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: February 17, 2003 19:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery Management and Regulators
Mark Fowler wrote:
> So, does anyone know where I can get my hands on plans, kits, or
> actual devices to regulate the voltage on 3.6V Li-Ions, similar to
> the Rudman Regulators
My first battery regulators were very simple; a darlington power
transistor, a 200 ohm pot, a car brake light bulb as the power resistor,
and a zener diode. If you use a green LED in place of the zener, they
should work fine as 3.6v regulators.
battery+ ____________________
| |
green _|_ > power resistor
LED _\_/_ > (1.5 ohms for
| > ~2 amps max)
| |
| ____| collector
> |/ |
potentiometer >/_______| |
200 ohms >\ base | |/ NPN darlington
> |\__| power transistor
| | (I used MJE1100)
| |\
battery- _____|______________| emitter
http:
None of the fancy features of the latest Rudman regulator, but it's
cheap if you're going to have a lot of cells.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian,
Wow. Would you belive just last night I was dreaming up a cycle configuration
with two Eteks, Otmar's new 1000amp controller, OK I was being conservative at
120volts of hawkers.
Is this in your EMB chassis?
Good luck,
Darin Gilbert
Bad Fish Racing
> I had a Fun day, yesterday, at Infineon Raceway ( Sears Point). The crowd
> was very excited seeing an electric motorcycle competing against the gas
> monsters.My best time was 14.558 sec at 79 mph. Folks there could not
> believe how fast it was, I wanted it to go faster.This would be a new record
> at a NEDRA event. Current record for this 144 volt motorcycle class is
> 14.702 set by John Bidwell. All I need is to have two time slips in the same
> day , faster than him to take his place.Sunday February 23 , I will be there
> ,trying again.
> MY motorcycle is : 144 volts ( 12 hawker 13's), 2 E-tec's in series, DCP
> 1000 amp controller.
> My best 0-60(feet) was 1.89 sec.
>
> Brian D. Hall
> ThunderStruck Motors,
> www.thunderstruck-ev.com
> 707-575-0353
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interestingly, one of the automotive industry reporters got to drive the
Tilley Delorean a couple of days prior to the "test" (ha ha). He also got
to look it over while it was up on a lift in Tilley's shop.
At the time, he mentioned to me that the vehicle had two devices underneath
it that looked like turbines or ducted fans.
I didn't think too much more about this until I read the strange email
exchange at:
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/fraud/Stephen/index.html
About halfway down the page, the supposed inventor mentions his idea to use
turbines to charge the batteries while driving. Uh huh. At least it
explains the presence of the devices.
It's somewhat amusing to read the blatherings of the "inventor" in the email
exchange. Too bad he doesn't realize the futility of trying to generate
more power from the devices than they consume in drag. If this wasn't so
sad, it would be funny.
-Tom
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What if the inside of the battery box was made reflective and a sensor was
placed inside that could see when one of the LEDs on the regulator shown
below, was on. The charger could cut back the current based on how much LED
light was bouncing around in the box.
Different colors for over heat, under voltage?
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Harris, Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:21 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Battery Management and Regulators
This discussion and development would be a great thread for the evtech
mailing list once/if you get into the nitty gritty details of the project.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: February 17, 2003 19:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery Management and Regulators
Mark Fowler wrote:
> So, does anyone know where I can get my hands on plans, kits, or
> actual devices to regulate the voltage on 3.6V Li-Ions, similar to
> the Rudman Regulators
My first battery regulators were very simple; a darlington power
transistor, a 200 ohm pot, a car brake light bulb as the power resistor,
and a zener diode. If you use a green LED in place of the zener, they
should work fine as 3.6v regulators.
battery+ ____________________
| |
green _|_ > power resistor
LED _\_/_ > (1.5 ohms for
| > ~2 amps max)
| |
| ____| collector
> |/ |
potentiometer >/_______| |
200 ohms >\ base | |/ NPN darlington
> |\__| power transistor
| | (I used MJE1100)
| |\
battery- _____|______________| emitter
http:
None of the fancy features of the latest Rudman regulator, but it's
cheap if you're going to have a lot of cells.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I heard they classed him like that so he would not have to compete
with the 200+ mph streamliners. I guess they figured the electric
land speed racer crowd is small enough no one would care?
There is every class imaginable for gassers (around 100 classes), but
only 3 for electric, only differentiated by weight.
It would be nice if they at least had a street legal class, or
allowed an "Electric" class for every existing class, or a voltage
based classes or something. Maybe a letter asking for new classing to
them would do it?
I have more than academic interest, I live only 2 hours from the Salt
Flats and am hoping to run my conversion-in-progress there some day.
There is a 130 mph and 150 mph class for street legal cars -- not
sure if that would count for an official record, but could get you an
official time slip for bragging rights.
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I feel sorry for the ETCA if they are going to follow the lead of
> the
> SCTA. As far as I'm conscerned they have absolutely no credibility
> and their electric vehicle records are worthless. Get them to send
> you a copy of who holds what EV records. Find out what class they
> have for "Silent Thunder", a car I campained first on the one mile
> oval at Phoenix International Raceway and then at Firebird
> International Raceway in road racing.Both tracks are located in the
>
> Phoenix Arizona area. We sold the car to Michael Murphy who had me
> set it up and deliver it to Bonneville Salt Flats to set a land
> speed
> record. As I remember the car weighed in around 3200 lbs. with 336
> volts of Optimas, a first generation Zilla and a single 9 inch
> Advanced DC motor. On the first run we firballed the motor and
> coasted through the traps 106 MPH. Bob Schneveis installed four 8
> inch Advanced DC motors for Michael and I was on the pit crew the
> following year when it ran 133 MPH as I remember. This was a
> lisenced
> street legal car. At the end of a run the brushes weren't even
> warm.
> I know because I stuck my finger on them before we towed the car
> back
> after the run. The main problem with the car going so slow was that
>
> it ran out of gearing before it even got to the beginning of the
> timing line . There is still more in that car! When you look up the
>
> SCTA record on this heavy weight they will tell you it holds the
> Class 1 record. Give me a break! Why don't you tell me that Dennis
> Berube's car runs in the NEDRA 96 volt high school sedan division.
>
> Another NEDRA Outlaw
> Roderick
>
> Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
> Your Online EV Superstore
> www.evparts.com
> 1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
> Phone: 425-672-7977 Fax: 425-672-7907
> 18908 Highway 99, Suite B
> Lynnwood, WA 98036-5218
>
>
> >The ECTA uses the Southern California Timing Association (SCTA)
> >rules with a few minor changes. EV's are put into one of three
> >streamliner classes, based on total vehicle weight:
> >
> >Class 1, under 1099 lbs (less than 500 kg)
> >Class 2, 1100 to 2200 lbs (500 to 1000 kg)
> >Class 3, over 2200 lbs (over 1000 kg)
> >
> >They also have some fairly stringent safety rules that I don't
> think
> >your average NEDRA-machine would meet. For example, your car will
> >need at a minimum a roll bar or roll cage, a fire extinguishing
> >system, and a competition seat-belt. The driver will need an
> >SFI-rated suit, plus SFI-rated boots, and gloves. The specific
> >requirements are based on the anticipated vehicle speed or the
> speed
> >of the class record.
> >
> >If you want to run with the ECTA, I'd recommend getting a copy of
> >the rule book right away and also contacting someone on the ECTA
> >technical committee to discuss your plans.
> >
> >So, while the speed for the record seems "low", I don't think you
> >could just show up with a NEDRA/NHRA EV drag racing vehicle and be
>
> >able to compete. But, if you do make your machine ECTA-legal, I
> bet
> >you'd have a lot of fun running there. Just think, it's a 1.2 mile
>
> >long dragstrip!
> >
> >Henry Deaton
> >(still working on my electric LSR motorcycle)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 10:03 PM 2/16/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >>It's looks like they make new class's as they need them, so it
> should be
> >>easy for some of those Power of DC racers, most EV transmissions
> never see
> >>fourth gear.
> >>
> >>www.lasvegasev.com
> >>Richard Furniss
> >>Las Vegas, NV
> >>1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> >>1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> >>3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> >>Board Member, www.lveva.org
> >>Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 6:09 PM
> >>Subject: EV speed record
> >>
> >>
> >>> http://www.ecta-lsr.com/recordscars1.htm
> >>>
> >>> The East Coast timing association has an electric class, and
> the 1 mile
> >>> record is ~115 mph. I think there are a few people on the list
> who could
> >>> raise that a bit. I have heard is it an overgrown dragstrip
> for a
> >>> course, nothing like the salt flats, but it might be
> relatively easy
> >>> pickings for an EV drag car. I don't have the rule book, and
> it isn't
> >> > online (that I saw) though.
> >>>
> >>> Seth
> >>> --
> >>> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
> --
>
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
I didn't notice anyone else point this out, but the March / April 2003
"Special Interest Autos" magazine has an 8 page article on GM's EV1. I
think that they did a very nice job.
Mike -- My SIAs: '79 Jet ElectraVan & '58 Isetta
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The truck was down to a 6-mile range and then sat for a year, or... it
was doing OK, then sat for a year, and now has a 6 mile range?
After sitting for a long time, the batteries will need exercise to build
up strength again. I.e. 5 miles, charge, 8 miles, charge, 12 miles,
charge, etc. Kinda boring driving in loops around your house to be able
to stop when needed, but.. gets the job done.
It could also be that one or two clunkers are causing most of the
problems. This gets back the point of finding someone to lend you a hand
to test all the batteries, but basically after driving those 6 miles
need to go around and check each battery to see what is up. If you have
a heater, a quick estimate of condition is to leave the heater running
after a drive and then test the voltage of each battery and look for the
oodball(s).
If it is just a couple of bad batteries, try charging individually or if
that doesn't help then can replace with some cheap used batteries.
And as for the desulfator devices - I wouldn't spend money on such as
I'm not at all convinced.
Tom Martin wrote:
> Sorry if I spelled it wrong, but I have run up against a real hard spot. My
> pack has no range left, maybe 6 miles or so. We have had the 24-pack of
> Trojans for about three years but they have set still for a year now. I kept
> them charged and full of water but now they just won't run the truck
> anymore.
> I read about the pulse charging and the claims that it would desulfinate the
> batteries and return them to good usable condition. Is this true or just
> another scam?
> I can't afford another 1500 for more batteries, but I may be able to talk my
> wife into such an investment as this pulse device.
> Any and all 'helpful' input will be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Tom Martin
--
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Brian D. Hall" wrote:
> MY motorcycle is : 144 volts ( 12 hawker 13's), 2 E-tec's in
> series, DCP 1000 amp controller.
Let's see... same controller I have in my truck, but AGM's instead of
flooded's and a motorcycle instead of a 2-ton lead box.... yeah, that
should be fun! Good luck on the 23rd.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I understand it, a LiIon battery can catch on fire if overcooked,
whereas a PbA battery just gets murdered. If so, then the consequences
of a BMS malfunction are much more disastrous for LiIon.
So... does that mean redundant systems and watchdog circuits to monitor
the monitors and all that?
"John G. Lussmyer" wrote:
> I (just like many others) have been thinking about building my own Battery
> Management System. This is important to me, as I'm planning on spending
> $$$$ on a LiIon pack for my Sparrow.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:37 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, Jim Coate stated:
As I understand it, a LiIon battery can catch on fire if overcooked,
whereas a PbA battery just gets murdered. If so, then the consequences
of a BMS malfunction are much more disastrous for LiIon.
So... does that mean redundant systems and watchdog circuits to monitor
the monitors and all that?
Not fully redundant no. But it CAN detect blown fuses for the regulator
function. Also, by using a CPU to monitor things, it can also detect
things like a battery showing a constant voltage while all the others
around it are climbing or dropping - i.e. bad sensor. Can detect if a reg
dies completely, etc...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> If you weren't on the list about a year a go when Mr. Littlefield was
> telling us about the Tilley black box and how we'd be eating crow you
> missed some high entertainment.
I went back and looked at my own posts from that time to see if I could
say "told you so" and sure enough, I could it I wanted to. :-)
In the expos�, I loved the bit about the extension cord from the house
to the workshop. That was a big undeniable clue that Tilley knew his
device wasn't working.
--
Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
LRW at clear.net.nz
"Do you like cat?"
"Yes, I quite like cats."
"Leg or breast?"
Neverwhere, by Neil Gaiman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually what happened with the SCTA is that they changed horses in the
middle of the stream. The class 1/E record that "Silent Thunder" holds was
for its correct weight by their class system when it set the record. Then
they decided to go with the F.I.A. system of weight classes. A side note,
the worlds quickest electric motorcycle according to the F.I A. turned 15
something seconds in the quarter mile. Give me another break! Ed Rannberg
was turning 12s back in the early 80s. Last year a good friend of Ed's sat
in on the SCTA board meetings to try to get street classes for Bonneville
land speed racing to no avail. The SCTA says that if we build three electric
vehicles in the same non existent class and bring them to Bonneville that
they will consider making a class for them. Let's see now. Invest $35000.00
per vehicle for three vehicles, then transport them across country to
Bonneville, Then it rains and they cancel the event, turn around, go home
and come back again next year just in case you may get to run. Oh, and then
if you are lucky they will make a class the following year so that you can
come back again and try to set a land speed record if the weather holds and
you get to run that is. The SCTA has a totally different mind set than the
NHRA. The NHRA looks at electrics as more customers since they are a
business. In defense of the SCTA, they look at electrics as just more work
for them as they are an all volunteer organization. They do not get paid
more for more work. But I wish they would at least straighten out their
record keeping on their existing electric records. They are a big joke and a
disgrace to electric racing. They make the hard earned records meaningless.
A solution would be to start a new record keeping organization. Use their
rule books and their track and have your own classes. Similar to what we do
with NEDRA. They do have a good safety record and the rule book spells out
the safety regulations well. Any volunteers out there to start a new
organization?
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: EV speed record
> I heard they classed him like that so he would not have to compete
> with the 200+ mph streamliners. I guess they figured the electric
> land speed racer crowd is small enough no one would care?
>
> There is every class imaginable for gassers (around 100 classes), but
> only 3 for electric, only differentiated by weight.
>
> It would be nice if they at least had a street legal class, or
> allowed an "Electric" class for every existing class, or a voltage
> based classes or something. Maybe a letter asking for new classing to
> them would do it?
>
> I have more than academic interest, I live only 2 hours from the Salt
> Flats and am hoping to run my conversion-in-progress there some day.
>
> There is a 130 mph and 150 mph class for street legal cars -- not
> sure if that would count for an official record, but could get you an
> official time slip for bragging rights.
>
> --- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I feel sorry for the ETCA if they are going to follow the lead of
> > the
> > SCTA. As far as I'm conscerned they have absolutely no credibility
> > and their electric vehicle records are worthless. Get them to send
> > you a copy of who holds what EV records. Find out what class they
> > have for "Silent Thunder", a car I campained first on the one mile
> > oval at Phoenix International Raceway and then at Firebird
> > International Raceway in road racing.Both tracks are located in the
> >
> > Phoenix Arizona area. We sold the car to Michael Murphy who had me
> > set it up and deliver it to Bonneville Salt Flats to set a land
> > speed
> > record. As I remember the car weighed in around 3200 lbs. with 336
> > volts of Optimas, a first generation Zilla and a single 9 inch
> > Advanced DC motor. On the first run we firballed the motor and
> > coasted through the traps 106 MPH. Bob Schneveis installed four 8
> > inch Advanced DC motors for Michael and I was on the pit crew the
> > following year when it ran 133 MPH as I remember. This was a
> > lisenced
> > street legal car. At the end of a run the brushes weren't even
> > warm.
> > I know because I stuck my finger on them before we towed the car
> > back
> > after the run. The main problem with the car going so slow was that
> >
> > it ran out of gearing before it even got to the beginning of the
> > timing line . There is still more in that car! When you look up the
> >
> > SCTA record on this heavy weight they will tell you it holds the
> > Class 1 record. Give me a break! Why don't you tell me that Dennis
> > Berube's car runs in the NEDRA 96 volt high school sedan division.
> >
> > Another NEDRA Outlaw
> > Roderick
> >
> > Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
> > Your Online EV Superstore
> > www.evparts.com
> > 1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
> > Phone: 425-672-7977 Fax: 425-672-7907
> > 18908 Highway 99, Suite B
> > Lynnwood, WA 98036-5218
> >
> >
> > >The ECTA uses the Southern California Timing Association (SCTA)
> > >rules with a few minor changes. EV's are put into one of three
> > >streamliner classes, based on total vehicle weight:
> > >
> > >Class 1, under 1099 lbs (less than 500 kg)
> > >Class 2, 1100 to 2200 lbs (500 to 1000 kg)
> > >Class 3, over 2200 lbs (over 1000 kg)
> > >
> > >They also have some fairly stringent safety rules that I don't
> > think
> > >your average NEDRA-machine would meet. For example, your car will
> > >need at a minimum a roll bar or roll cage, a fire extinguishing
> > >system, and a competition seat-belt. The driver will need an
> > >SFI-rated suit, plus SFI-rated boots, and gloves. The specific
> > >requirements are based on the anticipated vehicle speed or the
> > speed
> > >of the class record.
> > >
> > >If you want to run with the ECTA, I'd recommend getting a copy of
> > >the rule book right away and also contacting someone on the ECTA
> > >technical committee to discuss your plans.
> > >
> > >So, while the speed for the record seems "low", I don't think you
> > >could just show up with a NEDRA/NHRA EV drag racing vehicle and be
> >
> > >able to compete. But, if you do make your machine ECTA-legal, I
> > bet
> > >you'd have a lot of fun running there. Just think, it's a 1.2 mile
> >
> > >long dragstrip!
> > >
> > >Henry Deaton
> > >(still working on my electric LSR motorcycle)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >At 10:03 PM 2/16/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> > >>It's looks like they make new class's as they need them, so it
> > should be
> > >>easy for some of those Power of DC racers, most EV transmissions
> > never see
> > >>fourth gear.
> > >>
> > >>www.lasvegasev.com
> > >>Richard Furniss
> > >>Las Vegas, NV
> > >>1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> > >>1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> > >>3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> > >>Board Member, www.lveva.org
> > >>Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
> > >>
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 6:09 PM
> > >>Subject: EV speed record
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> http://www.ecta-lsr.com/recordscars1.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> The East Coast timing association has an electric class, and
> > the 1 mile
> > >>> record is ~115 mph. I think there are a few people on the list
> > who could
> > >>> raise that a bit. I have heard is it an overgrown dragstrip
> > for a
> > >>> course, nothing like the salt flats, but it might be
> > relatively easy
> > >>> pickings for an EV drag car. I don't have the rule book, and
> > it isn't
> > >> > online (that I saw) though.
> > >>>
> > >>> Seth
> > >>> --
> > >>> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
