EV Digest 2599
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) 1000 vs 500 amp Emeter
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "Trotman Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "Christian T. Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Solectria Force Problem Update :^)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wide power band for Lawrence's cycle + trike news
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV1s waiting
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Solectria Force Problem Update :^)
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 1000 vs 500 amp Emeter
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Solectria Force Problem Update :^)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Solectria Force Problem Update :^)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Heaters
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) (no subject)
by "Buford, Joseph E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Heaters
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Battery Management and Regulators - evtech list
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Drag Racing North Bay
by Richard Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) scam from W Africa
by Daniel J Rivest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Lithium Metal Polymer battery
by Daniel J Rivest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 1000 vs 500 amp Emeter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Lithium Metal Polymer battery
by "Mike Pengelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All -
Do you think it would be ok to use a 500 amp Emeter on a 1000 amp
system? I guess more importantly, would I be able to get away with a
500 amp shunt (for either the 500 amp Emeter or an analog ammeter) in
terms of the shunt's current handling abilities? Thanks for any
thoughts,
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris
I am considering this car very seriously
But I am a first timer.
But range and performance looks fine to me.
I am quite handy but I am wondering if this is the right car to start with
What do you think is a reasonable price.
It will cost me $620 to ship it to VA Beach
And I will assume that the 50 hawkers batteries will need replacing soon.
I have 3 small kids , do you think they can squeeze in the back.
Thanks
Trotman Simpson
Computer Geek in VA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
Alan:
> Do you have a feel for the cost of shipping cross-country? FL to OR is
> about as far as you can go roughly East/West and not get wet ;-)
Don't know; it cost $500 to get it from Fla to MD. Really nice tow company.
> For real? I was under the impression that most of the commercial
> conversions ran at the low end of the performance curve. I'm also
concerned
> that it has an automatic transmission, and finally, that the batteries are
> more accessible than they are on the S10s, especially as it will likely
need
> a new set. But it does look like a possible way for me to get back into
> an electric...
For real, at least according to the speedo. Took everything to get it there,
but it is a pretty quick little car. No problems doing 70 on a warm day.
When it's cold like winter.... Well, she is a bit more pokey.
The transmission is interesting. It's actually locked into second gear
forever, and the motor has all the torque you need. Actually the motor and
controller have a nice programmed mode to put out lots of torque on the
bottom end, then once past 3600 it shifts into a speed mode. Really nice. It
does not have a torque converter that I can see or feel. Would screw with
the regen.
The batteries are a real pain to get to. You have to drop the whole pack
down; which requires a lot of stuff. Not impossible; but not simple. I've
found a pallet jack, a plate made of 1 inch plywood, 4*4's, and three jacks
do the job pretty well. And two engine hoists and an electric tractor :-)
It is without a doubt a nice conversion. These were the guys who designed
the EV1. Very clean job. The biggest weakness to be honest is it's main
feature: The fact that you need 300 volts to run the AC drive. This
percludes using T105's (you're going to fit 50 of them in there how :-) and
the Hawker Genesis batteries though tough are small and pack only a total
size of 15kw of lead. I guess I could put 25 80-100ah batteries in the back
seat and trunk, but I like having a back seat and trunk :-)
I love mine.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking at one of the other electricars, this VW is a two seater with a big
box of batteries in the back. (See the other electricar at the EV Photo
Album)
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trotman Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
> Chris
>
> I am considering this car very seriously
> But I am a first timer.
> But range and performance looks fine to me.
> I am quite handy but I am wondering if this is the right car to start with
> What do you think is a reasonable price.
> It will cost me $620 to ship it to VA Beach
> And I will assume that the 50 hawkers batteries will need replacing soon.
> I have 3 small kids , do you think they can squeeze in the back.
>
> Thanks
> Trotman Simpson
> Computer Geek in VA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:06 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
>
>
> Alan:
>
> > Do you have a feel for the cost of shipping cross-country? FL to OR is
> > about as far as you can go roughly East/West and not get wet ;-)
>
> Don't know; it cost $500 to get it from Fla to MD. Really nice tow
company.
>
> > For real? I was under the impression that most of the commercial
> > conversions ran at the low end of the performance curve. I'm also
> concerned
> > that it has an automatic transmission, and finally, that the batteries
are
> > more accessible than they are on the S10s, especially as it will likely
> need
> > a new set. But it does look like a possible way for me to get back into
> > an electric...
>
> For real, at least according to the speedo. Took everything to get it
there,
> but it is a pretty quick little car. No problems doing 70 on a warm day.
> When it's cold like winter.... Well, she is a bit more pokey.
>
> The transmission is interesting. It's actually locked into second gear
> forever, and the motor has all the torque you need. Actually the motor and
> controller have a nice programmed mode to put out lots of torque on the
> bottom end, then once past 3600 it shifts into a speed mode. Really nice.
It
> does not have a torque converter that I can see or feel. Would screw with
> the regen.
>
> The batteries are a real pain to get to. You have to drop the whole pack
> down; which requires a lot of stuff. Not impossible; but not simple. I've
> found a pallet jack, a plate made of 1 inch plywood, 4*4's, and three
jacks
> do the job pretty well. And two engine hoists and an electric tractor :-)
>
> It is without a doubt a nice conversion. These were the guys who designed
> the EV1. Very clean job. The biggest weakness to be honest is it's main
> feature: The fact that you need 300 volts to run the AC drive. This
> percludes using T105's (you're going to fit 50 of them in there how :-)
and
> the Hawker Genesis batteries though tough are small and pack only a total
> size of 15kw of lead. I guess I could put 25 80-100ah batteries in the
back
> seat and trunk, but I like having a back seat and trunk :-)
>
> I love mine.
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I answered his questions offline. The EV rabbit is a nice car, no doubt, and
it has the following advantages:
1) Batteries aren't a pain in the rear to get to and replace
2) Batteries are cheap as dirt.
On the other hand
Not as efficient as the Prizm
Much older basic automobile frame
Can't seat 5.
It is to note that both will regen.
CZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian T. Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
> Looking at one of the other electricars, this VW is a two seater with a
big
> box of batteries in the back. (See the other electricar at the EV Photo
> Album)
>
> Christian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Trotman Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
>
>
> > Chris
> >
> > I am considering this car very seriously
> > But I am a first timer.
> > But range and performance looks fine to me.
> > I am quite handy but I am wondering if this is the right car to start
with
> > What do you think is a reasonable price.
> > It will cost me $620 to ship it to VA Beach
> > And I will assume that the 50 hawkers batteries will need replacing
soon.
> > I have 3 small kids , do you think they can squeeze in the back.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Trotman Simpson
> > Computer Geek in VA
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> > Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:06 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: US Electricar Prizm on Ebay
> >
> >
> > Alan:
> >
> > > Do you have a feel for the cost of shipping cross-country? FL to OR
is
> > > about as far as you can go roughly East/West and not get wet ;-)
> >
> > Don't know; it cost $500 to get it from Fla to MD. Really nice tow
> company.
> >
> > > For real? I was under the impression that most of the commercial
> > > conversions ran at the low end of the performance curve. I'm also
> > concerned
> > > that it has an automatic transmission, and finally, that the batteries
> are
> > > more accessible than they are on the S10s, especially as it will
likely
> > need
> > > a new set. But it does look like a possible way for me to get back
into
> > > an electric...
> >
> > For real, at least according to the speedo. Took everything to get it
> there,
> > but it is a pretty quick little car. No problems doing 70 on a warm day.
> > When it's cold like winter.... Well, she is a bit more pokey.
> >
> > The transmission is interesting. It's actually locked into second gear
> > forever, and the motor has all the torque you need. Actually the motor
and
> > controller have a nice programmed mode to put out lots of torque on the
> > bottom end, then once past 3600 it shifts into a speed mode. Really
nice.
> It
> > does not have a torque converter that I can see or feel. Would screw
with
> > the regen.
> >
> > The batteries are a real pain to get to. You have to drop the whole pack
> > down; which requires a lot of stuff. Not impossible; but not simple.
I've
> > found a pallet jack, a plate made of 1 inch plywood, 4*4's, and three
> jacks
> > do the job pretty well. And two engine hoists and an electric tractor
:-)
> >
> > It is without a doubt a nice conversion. These were the guys who
designed
> > the EV1. Very clean job. The biggest weakness to be honest is it's main
> > feature: The fact that you need 300 volts to run the AC drive. This
> > percludes using T105's (you're going to fit 50 of them in there how :-)
> and
> > the Hawker Genesis batteries though tough are small and pack only a
total
> > size of 15kw of lead. I guess I could put 25 80-100ah batteries in the
> back
> > seat and trunk, but I like having a back seat and trunk :-)
> >
> > I love mine.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
The electric gods must be smiling on me. Tonight I was able to borrow the
manual and troubleshooting guide for a Force, so I went out to the garage
to see what I could discover. I started going through the "car does not
run" troubleshooting list, and when I got to the part where the car should
have run, it did. I hadn't fixed or changed anything. I did see a note in
another manual mentioning the need to let the motor controller caps charge
for one hour for each month the car sat disabled. My guess is that
sometime in the past 24 hours the caps reached full charge and the system
was enabled. At any rate, one car is now moving under its own power. That
is the one with the bad AH meter so it still has some issues, but this sure
is a huge step in the right direction.
I did reconnect the wiring in the other car, so perhaps this time tomorrow
I will have both of them operating.
Who'd a thunk it!
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force EV*2
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am considering this for the golfcart but I am not
> willing to do this on
> the motorcycle. It will reduce range. I might
> consider going for torque
> and a higher ratio though. Lawrence Rhodes....
Field weakening is just what you need. It shifts
your motor's torque band to the higher rpm's so you
can go faster with the same set-up or change to higher
ratio gears for more low end torque and field
weakening to restore the top speed.
Done the second way the E used will be less
watts per mile, more range at the same speed as the
gearing gives the required tractive effort (road
torque) at less amps. Also good with heavy loads up
big hills.
Done the first way for the same speed will be
equal watt/mile as the original. What you get is the
option to go faster. It's only the higher drag at
higher speeds that would effect range.
For and A-89 series motor and a good starting
place for others I use a contactor and a 12" solid
12gge copper wire across the field terminals. The
contacts have most of the voltage drop so it's not as
much of a short as it seems and always leaves you
enough field for the motor. Your field windings are
about 8-9gge.
Always have it set up so it will not be on when
starting up as it will cause the motor to draw too
much current. Using a micro switch at full throttle to
control it works well as does a horn button type
switch.
Darren's post is the way to go for better
performance.
For range, an E-tek and a regen controller in SF
would increase your range maybe 40%. Helps braking on
those hills too.
HTH,
jerry dycus
BTW my new trike with a golf cart transaxle is
working great. I have about 120 miles on it using
about 100w/mile. Time for some drag reduction.
It's so fun to ride I keep using the excuse that
the batts need breaking in to go riding ;-)) .
The cops haven't stopped me so far despite not
having a tag and such large size for a personal
electric vehicle, limited to 20 mph, which is treated
as a bicycle in Fla law.
Now that it is tested it's time to paint it and
figure what type of body to put on it. It's set up as
a pickup now.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:32 AM
> Subject: Wide power band for Lawrence's cycle
>
>
> > Lawrence,
> >
> >
> > It sounds like what you're after is a way to get
> some more torque off the
> line,
> > and still keep high MPH on the road?
> >
> > How about keeping the gearing high(numerically)
> for low end torque, and
> adding
> > field weakening at top speed. I've read plenty
> about this, but I'm
> sticking
> > with PM motors, which complicates field weakening
> a bit. It should be
> easy to
> > experiment with. Just strap a hunk of wire across
> the field winding with
> a
> > contactor. Start with a high resistance, that
> will only divert a small
> amount
> > of current from the field. Decrease the
> resistance as you feel it's
> working
> > for you. Too low a field current and you'll have
> big big problems. Maybe
> even
> > a safety so field weakening is only engaged at
> WOT.
> >
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Darin Gilbert
> > Bad Fish Racing
> >
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alan,
Do you know who owns/leased the vehicles? I want to give it one last
try.
-Sam Harper
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 09:53 PM, Alan Shedd wrote:
Attached are two photos of some of the EV1's that have been reclaimed
from
leases and are waiting in Atlanta for the truck to carry them to their
final
parking spot. I know much has been said on the list about the waste of
resources, how many of us would love to give one of these a good home,
and
how unfortunate the auto industry's stance is on battery-electric
vehicles.
Many people in Atlanta used these cars as their daily transportation.
I
know they will miss them. I will miss seeing one occasionally go by
on the
road. There's not much else to say. What the auto industry cannot
or
will not accomplish is left for us to do. Keep your EVs running and
keep
working toward your goals.
-Alan
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice going Mike ...
Don
Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> The electric gods must be smiling on me. Tonight I was able to borrow the
> manual and troubleshooting guide for a Force, so I went out to the garage
> to see what I could discover. I started going through the "car does not
> run" troubleshooting list, and when I got to the part where the car should
> have run, it did. I hadn't fixed or changed anything. I did see a note in
> another manual mentioning the need to let the motor controller caps charge
> for one hour for each month the car sat disabled. My guess is that
> sometime in the past 24 hours the caps reached full charge and the system
> was enabled. At any rate, one car is now moving under its own power. That
> is the one with the bad AH meter so it still has some issues, but this sure
> is a huge step in the right direction.
>
> I did reconnect the wiring in the other car, so perhaps this time tomorrow
> I will have both of them operating.
>
> Who'd a thunk it!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force EV*2
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are nice, clean conversions. Around 1997, I think it was, I had a
chance to buy one at a very reasonable price. I passed it up. After some
research, two things I learned convinced me to look elsewhere: drive system
and battery limitations.
Rumor has it that there are reliability issues with the Dolphin drives and
parts are difficult (not yet impossible) to come by. At least one owner I
heard of pulled out the dead Dolphin drive and fitted an ADC motor and
Curtis controller. This is certainly a viable option.
Those 50 Hawkers make for a very high operating cost. List price is around
$130 to $165 each, depending on size. Hawkers don't conform to BCI size
standards, so nothing else will fit the factory battery trays.
Hawkers also need periodic high current charging to last more than a year or
two. It might be possible to fit other batteries, but you'd have to discard
the underbody trays and completely redesign the battery containment.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It all depends on the duration of the current.
I pull 1200 amps through a 500 amp shunt drag racing. It is warm at the end
of the race but the duration is short. It would not work at that level for
several minutes. It would overheat.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:29 PM
Subject: 1000 vs 500 amp Emeter
> Hi All -
>
> Do you think it would be ok to use a 500 amp Emeter on a 1000 amp
> system? I guess more importantly, would I be able to get away with a
> 500 amp shunt (for either the 500 amp Emeter or an analog ammeter) in
> terms of the shunt's current handling abilities? Thanks for any
> thoughts,
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike-
Which controllers do your Forces have?
Seth
Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> The electric gods must be smiling on me. Tonight I was able to borrow the
> manual and troubleshooting guide for a Force, so I went out to the garage
> to see what I could discover. I started going through the "car does not
> run" troubleshooting list, and when I got to the part where the car should
> have run, it did. I hadn't fixed or changed anything. I did see a note in
> another manual mentioning the need to let the motor controller caps charge
> for one hour for each month the car sat disabled. My guess is that
> sometime in the past 24 hours the caps reached full charge and the system
> was enabled. At any rate, one car is now moving under its own power. That
> is the one with the bad AH meter so it still has some issues, but this sure
> is a huge step in the right direction.
>
> I did reconnect the wiring in the other car, so perhaps this time tomorrow
> I will have both of them operating.
>
> Who'd a thunk it!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force EV*2
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, sort of. My thoughts:
> Rumor has it that there are reliability issues with the Dolphin drives and
> parts are difficult (not yet impossible) to come by. At least one owner I
> heard of pulled out the dead Dolphin drive and fitted an ADC motor and
> Curtis controller. This is certainly a viable option.
The Dophin has been dead-drop reliable. There are spare units out there, and
the problems on the Dolphin can be fixed by at least one list member. It
actually does a lot of neat things that you don't get with a Curtiss (dual
pots, incredible safety startup for 300 volt isolation, water cooled;
doesn't overheat, etc). Makes a lousy charger, but that's what the
MagneCharge is for :-)
> Those 50 Hawkers make for a very high operating cost. List price is
around
> $130 to $165 each, depending on size. Hawkers don't conform to BCI size
> standards, so nothing else will fit the factory battery trays.
Mmm... Going price seems to be about $70 each, so not that bad. Still, it is
expensive; $3,500 for a new pack o batteries.
As for size, there are a number of manufacturers who make batteries that fit
that particular form factor. A number of UPS units for example use the 26ah
battery spec. Gel cells and AGM (US Battery for example). However I am a bit
wary of other batteries; the Prizm will draw at 4C under full blast, and can
regen the batteries at 2C.
As for life. Well, my pack is coming up on 9 years old and though the range
isn't super hot (10 miles in the cold, 25-27 in the warm) it's not too bad.
I expect to replace the pack soon; it really doesn't owe me anything at this
point.
Also there is at least one NiMH battery that could possibly fit in the tray
(with space left over). I'm..... thinking.... about that.
> Hawkers also need periodic high current charging to last more than a year
or
> two. It might be possible to fit other batteries, but you'd have to
discard
> the underbody trays and completely redesign the battery containment.
Mmm. True. I am wiring up this MagneCharger that I picked up from an EVer in
CA in the spring. The MagneCharge options on the Prizm are also quite nice:
ties into the battery control system on the Dolphin, and has about a dozen
temp probes spread through the box to watch temp. Even has a pair of little
tiny fans to vent the box.
Not to mention being a lot smarter than the onboard charger.
I'd say overall it's a good clean car. The big weakness is the batteries,
but I *really* like having them under me instead of behind me.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
Mike-
Which controllers do your Forces have?
My cars both have the AC325 controller. On second thought, I am not sure
about the cap charging idea, as I think that was mentioned in Don's '97
NiMH Force book, and his uses the UMOC 440 controller. Of course, now that
I have mentioned it, I can't find the cap charging comment in either book
at all.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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What I did with my heaters is I wired them so that the current went
through two of the layers of ceramic in series. Normally when you wire
them you alternate positive and negative on the 5 tabs. Instead of
doing this I connected the positive to the tabs on the end and then the
negative to the center tab.
It seems to work ok.
-Jeremy
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:24 PM, Seth Murray wrote:
Hi All -
It seems that the standard electric heater core that everyone uses is
only rated up to 120 volts, and I want heat at 192 volts. Is there
any way I can rewire it for a higher voltage operation (it has a lot
of connections...) or do I need to consider putting two in series or
possibly another heater element? thanks
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
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I want to express my thanks to Leslie Walker and Steven Rose in New Zealand for their
help and kind words for my Toastmaster's speech on EV's.
Also thanks to Otmar and Shari Prange ( of Electro Automotive) for their help on
getting my facts straight.
I won best speaker and, even better, had lots of heads nodding along. Too much to
cover in only 5-7 min, but I hit as may high points as I could.
Started and closed with the same question. "How far do you drive". Several drove <5mi,
one uses a Prius!
Thanks to everyone for helping make this a success.
Joe Buford
310-416-9319
Boeing Satellite Systems
702 \O/
[XXXXX]-H-[XXXXX]
/0\ GEO
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On 19 Feb 2003 at 7:28, Christopher Zach wrote:
> > Rumor has it that there are reliability issues with the Dolphin drives...
>
> The Dophin has been dead-drop reliable.
In a sample of one, reliability is either going to be 100% or 0%. Who was
it who said "If a straight line fit is required, plot only two points"? <g>
> There are spare units out there, and
> the problems on the Dolphin can be fixed by at least one list member.
Good to know. I found ^no^ resources when I investigated.
> It
> actually does a lot of neat things that you don't get with a Curtiss (dual
> pots, incredible safety startup for 300 volt isolation, water cooled; doesn't
> overheat, etc).
So do Victor's Siemens drives. But the point is well taken; they are
unquestionably much more sophisticated than Curtis controllers. Greater
complexity could be one cause of lower reliability.
> Mmm... Going price seems to be about $70 each, so not that bad. Still, it is
> expensive; $3,500 for a new pack o batteries.
Let's look more closely at this. Hawker rates their Genesis at 400 cycles
to 100% DOD. They give no rating for shallower discharge, so I'm going to
adapt some figures from Trojan and give the Hawker a generous boost. I'll
estimate the 80% life as 600 cycles.
EV America gives driving cycle energy usage for a USE Prizm as 296 wh/mile;
see
http://ev.inel.gov/fop/eva/ffort-05.html
The one-hour rate of a Hawker G26EP is 21.7ah, so you have roughly 21.7 * 12
* 50 = 13kWh of energy on tap. Take 80% of this for a practical range and
you get 35 miles.
Take 35 mi/cycle * 600 cycles/lifetime and you get a lifetime range of
21,000 miles - pretty good. If you're right that you can replace the pack
for $3,500 (a figure I couldn't come close to duplicating when I
investigated this car), we get about 17 cents per mile in battery
amortization.
That's roughly equivalent to burning $1.70 per gallon gasoline at 10 miles
to the gallon. I believe it's the highest cost per mile I've ever computed
for a lead-powered compact EV. Compare it with the numbers I ran a few
years ago for my Solectria Force, using three other types of batteries:
Optima group 31: 9 to 14 cents per mile (lower figure is 500 cycles at 80%)
Saft STM5-100 nicads: 4 cents per mile
US 2200: 2 cents per mile
Notes:
1. Lower figure for Optimas is 500 cycles at 80%DOD, higher figure is 500
cycles at 50% DOD. I had conflicting information, so I used both.
2. Of course I couldn't really put the US 2200s in a Solectria Force; they'd
bring the car to its knees. But the point is that flooded golf car
batteries are by far the cheapest way to run an EV.
>
> As for size, there are a number of manufacturers who make batteries that fit
> that particular form factor.
You've apparently found some replacements I didn't know about. As far as I
could tell, Hawker Genesis sizing wasn't very similar to anything standard.
>
> As for life. Well, my pack is coming up on 9 years old and though the range
> isn't super hot (10 miles in the cold, 25-27 in the warm) it's not too bad.
I don't think your vehicle's history is typical. And you've replaced
several modules, if I'm not mistaken.
>
> I'd say overall it's a good clean car. The big weakness is the batteries, but
> I *really* like having them under me instead of behind me.
This is the center of the issue. A lot depends on your gut reaction to the
car.
Some people on this list denigrate my Force as pokey, for example, and
wonder how I can stand it. The answer is that I don't like to drive
roughly, and it's fast enough to meet my needs. I really like having
smooth, controllable regen; my Force is almost a one-pedal car. So I
overlook the relatively slow acceleration.
In your case there are some things you like very well about the USE Prizm,
well enough to overlook its weaknesses. All very fine. Every person
considering a used USE conversion should be aware of its strengths and
weaknesses so he can make an informed choice. I think he should know why
you bought yours and like it, and also why I ^didn't^ buy one.
I appreciate your corrections and updates to my findings.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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On 19 Feb 2003 at 12:06, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> EV America gives driving cycle energy usage for a USE Prizm as 296 wh/mile;
> see
>
> http://ev.inel.gov/fop/eva/ffort-05.html
Sorry, I read this page incorrectly. That's the usage at 19 deg F. At 77
deg F, energy usage is 260 wh/mile.
Also, I think this is a "wall plug" figure. So let's tinker a bit. The
same page gives charger efficiency as about 96%. Let's take battery charge
efficiency as 88% (I think I remember reading that somewhere). So of that
260 wh, we now have about 220 wh/mile at the battery.
This makes the NREL driving cycle 80% DOD range 47 miles, rather more
practical. The maximum pack lifetime distance is 28,200 miles, and the cost
per mile 12 cents. Now we're in the same cost-per-mile range as Optimas,
assuming the $70 per module cost Chris quotes is repeatable and reliable.
I apologize for my error.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Maybe a hair dryer or space heater element designed to work in Europe.
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Seth Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:25 PM
> To: EV List
> Subject: Heaters
>
>
> Hi All -
>
> It seems that the standard electric heater core that everyone uses is
> only rated up to 120 volts, and I want heat at 192 volts. Is
> there any
> way I can rewire it for a higher voltage operation (it has a lot of
> connections...) or do I need to consider putting two in series or
> possibly another heater element? thanks
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
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At 2:38 PM +1300 2/19/03, Walker, Lesley R wrote:
Lawrence Harris wrote:
> This discussion and development would be a great thread for the evtech
> mailing list once/if you get into the nitty gritty details of
> the project.
I'd love to eavesdrop - how does one subscribe to the evtech list?
I found it once but couldn't see how to subscribe.
http://evtech.org/
There's a subscribe box at the bottom.
I haven't seen any activity for a while on it. It often goes quiet for weeks.
At 4:35 PM -0800 2/18/03, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Sorry, I keep forgetting I talk about my situation and my high tech
hardware. I have integrated system where power inverter, charger
and [future] BMS will all talk to each other. As of now,
Siemens inverter takes care of not allowing overcharge during regen
and not allowing over discharge during driving;
...............
my inverter won't allow to reverse the cell because
BMS will reduce driving current or shut off the battery if a cell
voltage gets beyond specified limits.
I am curious about this, How does the inverter know when one cell is
getting low so it can cut back power? What interface does it use for
the BMS?
At 6:28 PM -0800 2/18/03, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
The only draw back is lack of standardization - by implementing
what you're describing you force a customer to buy your controller
and your charger if he wants them to talk to your BMS.
If every controller and charger you come up with had common
interface (like CAN, existing for years), than diverse variety
of hardware can be integrated easily.
Yes, that is the problem. I have not found a low cost, low power
isolated standard that is appropriate for BMS. This is why I am
making my own standard. I call it EvBus and intend to make it an open
standard that any of us can use. I also plan to make a interface that
talks to Rich's charger and to others with hooks. This is why I ask
what your inverter uses to read individual battery voltages, maybe it
would be possible to build a bridge.
So far the system I've designed consists of a ring of industrial
fiber optics, single master multi slave, running at about 10 kbaud.
Digikey parts are: FB118-ND and FB121-ND. I would like to use the
audio fiber parts, but so far they seem to use too much power. The
spec is weak is, I'll need to test some.
The major limitations of the system:
/one failed module can bring down the loop
/can not be used for safety critical things without fail safe modes.
/it is slow.
The advantages are:
/interconnections are cheap non conductive fiber.
/minimum node cost is low. protocol allows for slow processors.
/target load is low at 2mA per node.
/can be expanded to control chargers, heaters, instruments etc.
At this time I have hardware, and I have someone working on firmware.
Unfortunately making a living is interfering with working on it for a
few months...
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Message-ID: <016001c2d853$63ac0be0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Mike Pengelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lithium Metal Polymer battery
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:13:32 -0700
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From: "Daniel J Rivest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Here's the web site for a new battery coming out of Canada from Hydro
> Quebec and Kerr McGee.
>
> http://www.hydroquebec.com/4d_includes/of_interest/PcAn2002-116.htm
Here is a link to specs. on their first production battery.
http://www.avestor.com/se48s70.ch2
Impressive specs. 3.4KwH storage and 63lbs. (28.5Kg) with a 10 year
non-prorated warranty
Mike Pengelly
Phoenix, AZ
'90 Mustang EV
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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