EV Digest 2621
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Liability (was Re: Gliders (part 3)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Li Ion Batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Mellow Yellow's finally about to hit the road!
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: BMS cost (was Re: LIN bus link)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Mellow Yellow's finally about to hit the road!
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Standard Public Charging Station
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) re: EV PC
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Solectria for sale ... or not?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Chinese EV Not As Pictured,comments
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV Range/Speed Check
by Peter Falabella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Li Ion Batteries
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Range/Speed Check
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV1 help line
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Waterproffing and insulating regulators and such.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) test ignore
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Li Ion Batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Car Talk
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Car Talk
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BMS cost (was Re: LIN bus link)
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Kits to Consider (part 4?)
by "Christian T. Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: BMS cost (was Re: LIN bus link)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Kits to Consider (part 4?)
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Liability (was Re: Gliders (part 3)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Consider this example. A while back a kid was riding his new bicycle at
> night with no lights and got hit by a car. Now the manual that came
> with the bike stated that if you are going to ride at night you need to
> add lights to the bicycle.
> The jury decided that they didn't state this "strongly enough" and
> awarded the kids family 4 million dollars.
That's exactly what's wrong with US. People use legal system as a
means of income, money they have not *earned* just may be able
to claim, so why not try? The reason for claiming is no longer
relevant if a stack of $4m waving in front of them.
I can't get over it. Keep encourage idiots to exploit legal
system. Did he have brains to realize no one can see him?
His parents should have. If all of them are being idiots,
they deserve consequences.
I read about better example - a lawnmower manufacturer was
judged to award some millions to a guy who lifted running
lawnmower bu its edges and got his fingers cut off.
Judge stated that the manual didn't specifically say one
cannot do that.
Where are we going?
So forget about gliders, but it's not technical issue at all.
Fix legal system and manufacturers will gladly cooperate.
Not 'till then, sad fact.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This sounds like requirement only if you want to ship by air.
Victor
Dave Davidson wrote:
>
> Got this as part of an advertisement for a battery conference. Looks like a
> different tactic is being taken to kill the Li-ions.
>
> Dave Davidson
> Laurel, Maryland
> 1993 Dodge TEVan
>
> ------------------------
>
> On January 1, 2003, new testing requirements for all lithium and lithium ion
> cells and batteries went into effect pursuant to the International Civil
> Aviation Organization's (ICAO) Technical Instructions and International Air
> Transport Association's (IATA) Dangerous Goods Regulations. According to
> George Kerchner, manager of The CapAnalysis Group and a presenter at
> Advancements in Battery Charging, Conditioning, Monitoring & Testing,
> "lithium and lithium ion cells and batteries designed and manufactured after
> January 1, 2003 must be tested pursuant to the UN Manual of Tests and
> Criteria prior to being offered for air transport and shipped
> internationally."
>
> "There are eight lithium cell and battery tests under the UN Manual of Tests
> and Criteria that are often referred to as 'T1 through T8,' said Kerchner.
> "Although the tests are similar in many respects to those contained in such
> battery standards as UL1642, UL2054, and IEC 61960, some major differences
> do exist. As a result of the significant number of cells and batteries that
> must be tested, the testing requires a minimum of three to four weeks to
> complete at a cost of up to $15,000."
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
Well, at last, my little yellow pickup EV
is about ready to hit the road!
( it's only taken me 2 years... I'm a slow worker :)
I've got the new motor frame Paul C. welded up
installed, the gearbox is built up, the belt
drive is nice and tight ( no jumping belt ).
New rubber bushings in the suspension, the
power brakes work properly now, and the best
bit, my upgraded wiper motor works!
( there's a story here, read on... )
Tried it all out on the driveway, and can
creep along beautifully slowly at less than walking
pace, no infamous Curtis + ADC 9inch "lurching"
Obviously my motor's got lots of inductance to
keep the Cursit happy...
So now, the registration document is winging
its way to the DVLA for them to record it as
an electric, then I can get my tax disc, MOT
and insurance! Oh yes, I need to finish the
charger....and fix the peeling paint on the
underneath of the floorpan!
The wipers were fun - Mini windscreen wipers
are driven by a rather pathetic motor. Often
on old ones it won't move the wipers on a dry
windscreen. Mine barely moved when the screen was
wet.... so I took it apart.
It's a permanent magnet motor, with 2 magnets,
10 winding slots and 10 comm segments. The winding
ends are squished onto the comm segments by little
folded-over parts of the comm - cheap & nasty or what?!
Also the slots were only half-full, Lucas skimp
on motor wire too ( they're not referred to as
"The Prince of Darkness" for nothing... )
I measured the resistances between the comm segments.
All except 2 were open-circuit! No wonder the motor
didn't have much power, only 1/5th of its coils
were connected! The wires looked a bit thin too.
So I went down to my local electronics store and got
a reel of magnet wire, deliberately choosing thicker
wire than the original, so I could rewind it and
get it to suck more current, thereby making more torque!
30 turns of old rubbish wire came off from each winding,
and 20 turns of new twice-as-thick wire went on. Just about
fitted in there, nice and tight. I re-used the horrid
folded over bits of comm segment to connect the wires,
as I wasn't sure if the plastic comm body would like
soldering. All windings were checked with a DVM, all ok.
Put it all back together, and I now have turbo wipers!
No trouble moving the wipers across a dry screen, in
fact they'll probably laugh at inches of snow...
Some data:
the old motor was rated at 14 watts, 12 volts.
so old motor current would be a bit over 1 amp
re-con motor now uses 3 to 4 amps at 12 volts
speed is probably increased by 50% ( guess )
( because I have 20 turns rather than 30 )
so torque is up by 100 to 200 % ?
( current is increased by 100 to 200 % )
Does this sound right for a PM motor?
Anyway, I'm now waiting for the DVLA to send me
my new reg. document, so I can get it all legal
and then drive it! Let's hope they don't demand
an inspection to verify it's electric...
( I did send some pics of the motor and batteries )
Then it'll be maiden voyage time!
Thanks to everyone who's offered advice on this
project, especially Paul Compton ( who sold me
most of the EV bits used in this vehicle )
I'm sure I'll have plenty of charging questions
when I start using the pickup ;-)
Richard Bebbington
Electric Mini pickup
( finally about to get on the road! )
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> Lee and Victor;
> What it boils down to, is a Quality charger and a BMS are entry tickets
> for Evercells and Lithium technologies. NiCds also need some help.
> You wanna stay with Flooded Lead acid? Water is cheap.
> All other battery chemistries will benifit from monitoring and some form
> of equalization mechanism.
>
> Wann build lead Sleds?? then don't bother with the advacned gear. Want
> range and power, and low maitnece ? Well gotta pay for that.
I agree. In my case I'm not as nervous about cost as you are because
don't plan to make it for sale to live off of as you do. I make it
for myself with features I think have to be there. If someone happen
to like it, I'll make one for sale, but I won't design with customers
in mind. This is big difference. I wish you luck and bunch of guys
ready to buy $40 regs, I really do.
BTW, my BMS module is reported to work on simulator beautifully.
Time to think about LiIons order. I got couple participants...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 15:13, Richard Bebbington wrote:
> Anyway, I'm now waiting for the DVLA to send me
> my new reg. document, so I can get it all legal
> and then drive it! Let's hope they don't demand
> an inspection to verify it's electric...
> ( I did send some pics of the motor and batteries )
Do you have any pics online?
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since I started this, I should also provide my opinion.
A Square D box looks very promising. But, it is only "UL Listed as suitable
for use as temporary site service equipment." And, if I were the owner of a
business, I would not put anything on my property that could invite law
suits. RV park owners expect a 14-50 or other outlets as a standard
installation on their properties. But, to a regular shopping mall owner,
this is an unknown territory. And, there is already a set of electrical
codes specifically for EV charging whether you like it or not.
NEMA 14-50's are perfect if we include features to only turn power on when
the signal is found between neutral and ground etc. This makes it a
non-standard NEMA 14-50. And, this means a small circuit and a big relay
capable of handling 40A @ 240V are needed. Someone even suggested a
mechanical contraption to help inserting the 14-50 plug so that it would
need less force and it would prevent potential electrical shock etc. But,
this sounds awfully like the AVCON. Why reinvent the wheel?
Yes, the AVCON might cost a little more. But, I have a feeling that it is
because of low volume production similar to the situation with any
production EV. Since it is approved as the standard, we should just use it
as it is. Get it installed as the standard package, and the cost should go
down and the future production or conversion EVs would follow. And, we
could promote it without much concern over safety. Any business owner would
rather spend a few hundred dollars more to prevent a law suit.
As for future replacement and maintenance, if it is the widely accepted
standard, I am sure you could find it in the local Home Depot. Equipment
could be fixed at a relatively low cost. But, a law suit or a human live
would be very costly.
Ed Ang
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Search for R. Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion Car. He also envisioned a
palletized 'vehicle' that could be transferred from a home to a chassis
to a rail car to a ship to a plane.
-Harry in Fresno
================================
Here is the cool part. So you have a rolling chassis/box/frame. This
can have all the "guts" interchanged. Nice so far. Take it to the next
logical step of having interchangeable body parts also. Then you can
change the body to a newer style, without updating anything else. Or go
to the next level like GM did with the Hy-Wire and have a rolling
platform with the ability to swap the entire body cage (interior
included). Then you wouldn't be driving "the same car for whole life".
You could have a truck, minivan, car, or whatever you're in the mood for
on any given day.
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don,
Why is the car at Solectria in Massachusettes while you are located in
Kansas City, MO ?
What work needed to be done by Solectria that could not be done by you
with the help of other EV do-it-your-selfers in Kansas City ?
This added the cost of shipping the car to Solectria and back.
What is your asking price or is it best offer until when ???
Atleast Solectria is near my monthly meeting at NEEAA in Worcester, MA.
2nd Saturday of each month.
Is the car parked outside buried in the snow, inside a garage, under a
carport, or under a tarp at Solectria ?
Menlo Park III,
Bill, Glastonbury, CT
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:44:43 -0600 Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Time has come for me to "fish or cut bait"...
>
> I have this great 1996 Solectria Force with NiMH batteries. My wife
> and
> I have driven it for a couple of years and it is a great car.
>
> A couple of the batteries have died and Solectria cannot help me get
> this car running again unless I buy $15,000 worth of new Ovonics
> batteries or pay them the same amount to convert it to PbA or ?.
> The car is still at Solectria and waiting for me to bring it home. I
> can't afford to put another $15k into it.
> I am at the point of deciding to sell it as is or doing the battery
> conversion myself (with the help of Mike Chancey and Jim Donovan)
> here
> in Kansas City.
>
> Here is the question: Is anyone interested in buying this car as is?
> The
> AC drive alone would be worth a lot.
>
> The car can be seen on the EV photo album at
> www.austinev.org/evalbum/300.html or at Solectria, near Boston.
> It still looks like the pictures show it there. The A/C works well
> as
> does the heat, preheat system, e-meter and everything else. There is
> a
> brand new Stereo CD player and speakers.
> The car actually only weighs 2250 lb., and I have only drive it up
> to 65
> MPH. This is a really nice EV, I'm just not sure I am up to doing
> the
> conversion to PbA or NiCad as Tom Hudson has done.
>
> I have always really wanted a EV pickup like Paul G. "Neon" has
> built.
>
> I hope this is not too far off the purpose of this list.
> I have followed the list and learned alot in the past 2 years. I
> will
> still be driving an EV if I sell this one.
>
> Don Buckshot
> Kansas City, MO
> 816-582-6891 mobile, anytime
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hi EVerybody, Chinese Friends, Too!
> I would say it's a sincere offer of flattery, that they would show
> interest! More than on our shores. BTW is the magazine in Chinese? Yeah?
Yes, in Chinese.
I haven't seen any hard copy magazine, but the web site is in English.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am interested in buying an EV and would like to check the range and top
speed advertised. It seems that both are low given what I have been
reading but I am a "newbie" after all. I would like to know if this EV is
performing as good as should be expected or maybe something is wrong or can
be improved upon. In any event your feedback about the following
configuration would be greatly appreciated!
-21 HP Advanced DC FB1-4001 motor
-18 US Battery batteries (108 vdc)
-New batteries on Sep 2000 with 3,000 total miles on them.
-Curtis PMC 1221B-7401 transistor controller
-K-W BC-20 onboard charger
-4 speed manual transmission
-Vehicle weight before conversion 2,550 lbs (is this the culprit?)
-Range: 20 miles
-Top speed: 52 mph on the flat, slow to accelerate
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All of our fuel cell customers have to pass similar or more stringent
regulations
on all of the components in their system including our BLDC motors and
controls.
I don't think this price is out of line with our current qualification
testing.
I would think UL and other regulatory qualification is dependent in the
end application though?
Maybe somebody could comment on why this is required of Li Ion batteries
and not others?
What is the end application they are used in?
Rod
Edward Ang wrote:
It sounds more like another tactic to reduce competition from foreign
countries. Did someone say that the USA is being run by big corporations?
Ed Ang
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dave Davidson
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Li Ion Batteries
Got this as part of an advertisement for a battery conference.
Looks like a
different tactic is being taken to kill the Li-ions.
Dave Davidson
Laurel, Maryland
1993 Dodge TEVan
------------------------
On January 1, 2003, new testing requirements for all lithium and
lithium ion
cells and batteries went into effect pursuant to the International Civil
Aviation Organization's (ICAO) Technical Instructions and
International Air
Transport Association's (IATA) Dangerous Goods Regulations. According to
George Kerchner, manager of The CapAnalysis Group and a presenter at
Advancements in Battery Charging, Conditioning, Monitoring & Testing,
"lithium and lithium ion cells and batteries designed and
manufactured after
January 1, 2003 must be tested pursuant to the UN Manual of Tests and
Criteria prior to being offered for air transport and shipped
internationally."
"There are eight lithium cell and battery tests under the UN
Manual of Tests
and Criteria that are often referred to as 'T1 through T8,' said
Kerchner.
"Although the tests are similar in many respects to those
contained in such
battery standards as UL1642, UL2054, and IEC 61960, some major
differences
do exist. As a result of the significant number of cells and
batteries that
must be tested, the testing requires a minimum of three to four weeks to
complete at a cost of up to $15,000."
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter -
What kind of car is it? What is the weight after conversion? The
range and speed figures do seem a little low, however those depend
greatly on vehicle weight and especially on battery history (how well
maintained). The Curtis controller isn't helping either :-) See ya
Seth
On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Peter Falabella wrote:
I am interested in buying an EV and would like to check the range and
top speed advertised. It seems that both are low given what I have
been reading but I am a "newbie" after all. I would like to know if
this EV is performing as good as should be expected or maybe something
is wrong or can be improved upon. In any event your feedback about
the following configuration would be greatly appreciated!
-21 HP Advanced DC FB1-4001 motor
-18 US Battery batteries (108 vdc)
-New batteries on Sep 2000 with 3,000 total miles on them.
-Curtis PMC 1221B-7401 transistor controller
-K-W BC-20 onboard charger
-4 speed manual transmission
-Vehicle weight before conversion 2,550 lbs (is this the culprit?)
-Range: 20 miles
-Top speed: 52 mph on the flat, slow to accelerate
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Give it a try. Better if it is for an institution. Like the electric
vehicle club junior auxilliary. Lawrence Rhodes.....Do we have any junior
auxes.....???? Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: EV1 help line
> On 25 Feb 2003 at 13:48, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > Just submit your proposal and they will respond.
>
> Anybody have any guesses as to what the response will be?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lesson learned at high cost. Lawrence Rhodes......Thanks for the
advice.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Waterproffing and insulating regulators and such.
> I would not consider 16 gauge wire flopping around in a battery
compartment
> a "good habit." You are lucky that only the regs got fried and not the
> technician.
>
> You should handle only one wire at a time and no ends should ever flop
> around. Hold one end of the wire you are installing (on the insulated
part)
> while connecting the first end of the wire to the intended terminal. Then
> hook up the other end of that wire. By doing this, there is never more
than
> one live wire end, and that end is under your control and not flopping
> around in the battery compartment.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Waterproffing and insulating regulators and such.
>
>
> > I actully blow them mostly by brushing the contacts
> > against another battery or such. If I have to service them move them
> around
> > or take them off to replace a battey I get into trouble with the 16
gauge
> > wire flopping around and hitting something.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sorry, just testing some server settings.
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can Imagine what just 200 pounds of that kind of battery would do for my
Lectra. Wow. They know. They know I know.... I have friends with boats.
Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:58 AM
Subject: RE: Li Ion Batteries
> It sounds more like another tactic to reduce competition from foreign
> countries. Did someone say that the USA is being run by big corporations?
>
> Ed Ang
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Dave Davidson
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:17 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Li Ion Batteries
> >
> >
> > Got this as part of an advertisement for a battery conference.
> > Looks like a
> > different tactic is being taken to kill the Li-ions.
> >
> > Dave Davidson
> > Laurel, Maryland
> > 1993 Dodge TEVan
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > On January 1, 2003, new testing requirements for all lithium and
> > lithium ion
> > cells and batteries went into effect pursuant to the International Civil
> > Aviation Organization's (ICAO) Technical Instructions and
> > International Air
> > Transport Association's (IATA) Dangerous Goods Regulations. According to
> > George Kerchner, manager of The CapAnalysis Group and a presenter at
> > Advancements in Battery Charging, Conditioning, Monitoring & Testing,
> > "lithium and lithium ion cells and batteries designed and
> > manufactured after
> > January 1, 2003 must be tested pursuant to the UN Manual of Tests and
> > Criteria prior to being offered for air transport and shipped
> > internationally."
> >
> > "There are eight lithium cell and battery tests under the UN
> > Manual of Tests
> > and Criteria that are often referred to as 'T1 through T8,' said
> > Kerchner.
> > "Although the tests are similar in many respects to those
> > contained in such
> > battery standards as UL1642, UL2054, and IEC 61960, some major
> > differences
> > do exist. As a result of the significant number of cells and
> > batteries that
> > must be tested, the testing requires a minimum of three to four weeks to
> > complete at a cost of up to $15,000."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wonder how much of that is more than 50 miles a day. Lawrence Rhodes....
> 1.
> CAR TALK
> Jack Kerouac asked: "Whither thou goest America, in thy shiny
> car in the night?" Grist Magazine asks: How much does it cost
> you, the economy, and the environment to get there? In our
> latest Counter Culture column, we assemble recent stats on
> automobiles. (Such as this one: In 1995, the average U.S.
> family drove 34,459 miles, or enough to circumnavigate the Earth
> about one and a third times.) For similarly interesting -- and
> appalling -- numbers, check out Counter Culture, only on the
> Grist Magazine website.
>
> only in Grist: Overdrive -- fun facts about cars -- by Jim Motavalli
> in Counter Culture
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/counter/counter022603.asp?source=daily>
>
>
>
> 2.
> FREEDOM RIDERS
> Speaking of cars, President Bush's FreedomCAR and Fuel
> Initiative has ceded its brief control over the headlines to war
> cries, snowstorms, and Michael Jackson's second coming. But
> the plan still merits attention, both for its deep flaws and for the
> opportunity it offers to define a broader plan of action -- one
> capable of mapping the shift toward a hydrogen-based energy
> system that will permanently wean us off of our environmentally
> disastrous dependence on fossil fuels. In this month's Powers
> that Be column, renewable energy expert Amanda Griscom
> assesses the economic, environmental, and marketing issues
> that must be addressed to make that shift possible. Read the
> definitive word on fuel cells, only on the Grist Magazine website.
>
> only in Grist: Tough cell -- what can we learn from Bush's
> FreedomCAR initiative? -- by Amanda Griscom in Powers that Be
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/powers/powers022603.asp?source=daily>
>
>
>
> 3.
> THE ROOTWORM OF ALL EVIL
> In a major win for the biotech industry, the U.S. government
> yesterday gave Monsanto the green light to sell corn that has
> been genetically modified to resist rootworm disease, the most
> significant threat to the crop. The effort to combat rootworm has
> been the single biggest reason farmers use pesticides, so the
> decision will be a test case of whether genetically modified
> crops will benefit the environment by reducing use of toxic
> chemicals, as the industry claims. That possibility was cited by
> the U.S. EPA as a major factor in its decision to approve
> Monsanto's corn -- a decision it acknowledged was made in the
> face of lingering questions about the potential environmental
> impact of the altered seed. For the most part, the GM corn will be
> used as animal feed, so people will only eat it indirectly, but it
> could also be used in edible products such as corn syrup.
>
> straight to the source: Washington Post, Justin Gillis, 26 Feb
> 2003
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=826>
>
>
>
> 4.
> WITHERING HEIGHTS
> The Bush administration's proposal for addressing climate
> change was subjected to withering criticism by 17 experts in a
> report released yesterday. The experts, who were convened by
> the U.S. National Academy of Sciences at the request of the
> administration, said that the proposal lacked "a guiding vision,
> executable goals, [and] clear timetables" and that its goal -- to
> determine the seriousness of global warming in order to make
> sound decisions about how to address it -- could never be
> achieved at the current funding level sought by the White House.
> The panel also criticized parts of the proposal for seeking to fund
> research on questions about which there is already a scientific
> consensus: One expert said, "It's as if these people were not
> cognizant of the existing science. Stuff that would have been
> cutting edge in 1980 is listed as a priority for the future." The
> Bush administration said it welcomed the recommendations
> and pledged that some of them would be reflected in the final
> proposal, slated to be released in April.
>
> straight to the source: New York Times, Andrew C. Revkin, 26
> Feb 2003
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=827>
>
>
>
> 5.
> SPIRITED AWAY
> In a move that could set a precedent for a new kind of
> conservation effort, communal landowners in Mexico turned over
> an unspoiled island to the federal government. The $3.3 million
> deal was designed to protect the island, Espiritu Santo, from
> tourist development. The Manhattan-sized island, which is
> located 20 miles off the coast of La Paz on the Baja peninsula
> and is home to one of the region's most pristine desert
> ecosystems, was communally owned by mainland Mexicans.
> There are no permanent inhabitants of the island, although it is
> occasionally visited by fishing boats and tourists. However,
> permanent residents do include five species of mammals and
> reptiles unique to the island. In the past decade, pressure to
> develop such areas has become all but irresistible, as tourism
> has increased through the southern tip of Baja. The agreement
> to protect Espiritu Santo was the result of three years of
> negotiation; the money for the deal was raised by nonprofit
> environmental organizations.
>
> straight to the source: MSNBC.com, Associated Press, 25 Feb
> 2003
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=828>
>
> only in Grist: Turtle power -- threatened sea turtles find allies in
> Baja -- in The Main Dish
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/maindish/knight100302.asp?source=daily>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Also in GRIST MAGAZINE today:
>
> Reading UPC codes at the speed of light -- a day in the life of
> Jesse Putnam, Eco Encore
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/dearme/putnam022503.asp?source=daily>
>
>
> This is what Earth democracy looks like -- and other gems from
> assorted magazines in Best of the Rest
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/best/best020703.asp?source=daily#shiva>
>
>
> Sport utility verdict -- a review of "High and Mighty" by Keith
> Bradsher -- in Books Unbound
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/books/books022003.asp?source=daily>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> To subscribe to DAILY GRIST, click here
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/signup/subgrist.asp?source=daily> or send a
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>
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>
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GRIST MAGAZINE, a beacon in the smog, at <http://www.gristmagazine.com>.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops. Pay attention to only the first two subjects. Sorry. Bruce please
don't whip me. Your flames just scare the dickens out of me..... Lawrence
Rhodes........Don't press the send untill you check..............
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Rich Rudman"
> Mk3s will use 2 more lines for RXD and TXD data flow. And then the Sky's
> the limit. I hope to also support a Analog Reg as well as the Digi reg
> on the same bus. So you won't have to have all Digi regs. You should be
> able to mix and match. For say, a Digi reg in each battery box, for
> local Temps.
>
> I say you need Battery temp and voltage, and which battery you are
> measuring. The dissapation, will take care of itself.THE rest is fluff
> Feature creap will then drag you into measuring everything, and sending
> it down that expensive data buss you have.
>
> Evercells NEED temp data badly in summer conditions. I expect that there
> will be dozzens of new Evercell systems once they get here in volume.
> This is going to happen and very soon.
>
> We will have Digi Regs by June 03 one way or another.
Does anyone have any ideas on what the best way to monitor battery
temperature is? Where should the sensor go? What kind of accuracy is
really needed?
Keeping in mind that the sensor needs to be pretty cheap if its going to go
on every battery.
If the sensor is near a dissipative regulator that isn't going to be good.
LIN based opto-isolated battery voltage monitor almost ready for PCB
layout... Does anyone think a Palm could be made to talk LIN? Maybe a
RS-232 to LIN converter?
Chris Brune
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I really like the Vitesse, since its built on an easy to find, reliable
chassis. Oh, it looks good to.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: Kits to Consider (part 4?)
> After much searching, here are the kits I believe would be usable in a
> production vehicle:
> The Gregori GPR (made of unobtanium, but very attractive):
> http://www.premierkitcars.com/
> modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=11
> The Larini by Sculptural Engineering:
> http://www.premierkitcars.com/
> modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=15
> The Vitesse CRX rebody: http://www.vitessesportscar.com/
> The very nice, but very expensive Mullen M-11:
> http://www.mullenmotorco.com/
> The pleasing Ginette G27: http://www.ginettacars.com/
>
> Opinions?
>
> -Sam Harper
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> So, I was simply speculating on just how inexpensively a BMS could
>> be made. It seems to me that one could get 90% of the benefit for
>> about 10% of the cost. All it has to do is a) limit maximum battery
>> voltage, and b) tell the charger to turn itself down or off when
>> the first battery hits its limiting voltage.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I would love to have a simple BMS such as the above or even simpler.
> I would go for one that just limited the maximum battery voltage.
> Nothing but just stop my 8 volt battery from going above say 10 volts
> or something I could change by trimming a pot, flipping a switch or
> buying new diodes. I could add a switch to turn each one off to
> equalize if need be so each BMS module is an island upon itself.
>
> Turning down the charger is nice but then you have to have a charger
> that will communicate with your BMS, or if you just shut if off you
> need to have all the BMS modules able to communicate that. This might
> mean the BMS needed to handle more current and you would waste
> electricity if you were far out of balance but having twice the
> diodes or heatsink per module would seem cheaper/easier to install.
>
> If there was a simple design that was only a few dollars in parts to
> do this I would build the piece in proper enclosures and install it
> right now.
OK -- then start building!:-)
Here is a design I have been playing with for about a year. I have two
working systems installed, and while not as aggressive as a full-blown
BMS, it does most of the job and at very low cost.
Battery regulators
------------------
Here is the wiring diagram of the battery regulators (view with a fixed
width font):
Battery -
5/16" 6 gauge
ring terminal
______________
| \ __ \
_______________|/|__\ / \ |
Battery + | |\| / \__/ |
5/16" 6 gauge ____|__ | __|____ |_____/________/
ring terminal / | |_|_| | \
______________ \____|__| |__|____/ zener diode
/ __ / | | | | | 1N5338B
| / \ /__|/|_____________|_____| 5.1v 5w
| \__/ \ |\|
\________\_____| 2 lamps in parallel
each #PR2
zener diode 2.38v 0.5a
1N5338B
5.1v 5w
Parts list (per battery):
2 - heavy duty copper 5/16" ring terminal, 6 gauge wire (Waytek 36472)
2 - zener diode 1N5338B 5.1v 5watt (Allied 568-7257)
2 - PR2 flashlight bulb, 2.38v 0.5a (Mouser 606-PR2)
1. Drill a 1/16" hole in each ring terminal.
2. Poke the zener's lead wire thru the hole, and position the body
of the zener inside ring terminal where the wire normally goes.
Note that the zener's cathode goes to the positive ring terminal,
and the anode goes to the negative ring terminal.
3. Solder the zener's lead to the ring terminal.
4. Solder a short (~6") piece of wire to the remaining lead of each
zener. Use red for the +battery terminal, black for the -battery
terminal.
5. Put a short piece of heat shrink tubing over the exposed wire and
lead of the zener.
6. Fill the space around the zener and ring terminal with a thermally
conductive filler (like epoxy and metal dust).
7. Solder two PR2 flashlight bulbs together, center contact to center
contact.
8. Solder the wire from the +battery terminal to the outside contact
of both lamps.
9. Solder the wire from the -battery terminal to the center contact
of both lamps.
10. Put a piece of heat shrink tubing over the center of the lamp
assembly, fill it with silicone rubber, and shrink it in place.
The ring terminal at each end (and battery terminal to which it is
mounted) serves as the heatsink for the zeners. The resulting assembly
should be waterproof and have no exposed connections in the middle.
These regulators are set up for an 8v battery. They should draw
essentially no current below 10v, 0.25amp at 10.25v, and 1 amp at 10.5v
and above. You can change the zener or add a series diode to adjust the
voltage to some other level if desired.
When a battery voltage exceeds 10.25v, the lamps light up. If you have a
closed battery box (and you should for safety), a light sensitive device
inside the box can detect when the first regulator lights.
Charge Current Limiter
----------------------
One simple way to force a charger to limit its output current is to put
some resistance in series with its output. A light bulb is a good way to
do this, because it acts like a crude constant-current source. The
current only changes about 2:1 for a 10:1 change in voltage. For
example, an ordinary 120vac 150w light bulb draws 150w / 120v = 1.25
amps at 120v, and about half this or 0.625 amps at 12v.
Wiring diagram:
lamp
120v 150w
__
__/ \__
| \__/ |
| |
charger+__________|___||/__|__________battery+
COM1 /|| NC1
______
hot________| |
| |____
120 | | _| relay
vac | | _| 120vac
| |____| coil
neutral____| |
|______|
children's "night light"
(turns light on in darkness)
Parts list:
1 - 120v 150 watt light bulb and socket
(choose wattage for desired limiting current)
1 - relay, SPDT contacts to match charger max amps and volts,
120vac coil (for example, Potter & Brumfield T92 series, DPDT
30a 240vac contacts, 120vac coil, Mouser 655-T92P11A22-120, $10.50)
1 - children's night light with photocell that turns it off when it
senses light. Replace its lamp with the relay coil
Locate the night light inside the battery box where its photocell gets
exposed to light from any of the battery sensors. When no light is
detected, the relay coil is off, so its normally-closed contacts short
the light bulb and the charger delivers full power to the batteries.
When the first battery regulator lights, it pulls in the relay, which
opens the contacts and puts the light bulb in series with the charger,
limiting its current.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Although the exterior is pleasing, I think I personally would take the
del Sol, since it has a much nicer interior. No? Any others usable
vehicles in peoples mind? I was thinking maybe a quantity of Saturn
SL2s.
-Sam Harper
On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 10:52 PM, Christian T. Kocmick
wrote:
I really like the Vitesse, since its built on an easy to find, reliable
chassis. Oh, it looks good to.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: Kits to Consider (part 4?)
After much searching, here are the kits I believe would be usable in a
production vehicle:
The Gregori GPR (made of unobtanium, but very attractive):
http://www.premierkitcars.com/
modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=11
The Larini by Sculptural Engineering:
http://www.premierkitcars.com/
modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=15
The Vitesse CRX rebody: http://www.vitessesportscar.com/
The very nice, but very expensive Mullen M-11:
http://www.mullenmotorco.com/
The pleasing Ginette G27: http://www.ginettacars.com/
Opinions?
-Sam Harper
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 3:58 PM
Subject: Liability (was Re: Gliders (part 3)
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> > Consider this example. A while back a kid was riding his new bicycle at
> > night with no lights and got hit by a car. Now the manual that came
> > with the bike stated that if you are going to ride at night you need to
> > add lights to the bicycle.
> > The jury decided that they didn't state this "strongly enough" and
> > awarded the kids family 4 million dollars.
>
> That's exactly what's wrong with US. People use legal system as a
> means of income, money they have not *earned* just may be able
> to claim, so why not try? The reason for claiming is no longer
> relevant if a stack of $4m waving in front of them.
>
> I can't get over it. Keep encourage idiots to exploit legal
> system. Did he have brains to realize no one can see him?
> His parents should have. If all of them are being idiots,
> they deserve consequences.
>
> I read about better example - a lawnmower manufacturer was
> judged to award some millions to a guy who lifted running
> lawnmower bu its edges and got his fingers cut off.
> Judge stated that the manual didn't specifically say one
> cannot do that.
>
> Where are we going?
> Hi Victor;
You got us figured out pretty well. WHERE are we going? You can't really
put out a new product, unless you can dumb it down, for the shallow end of
the gene pool. When I was a kid, living on New York's Long Island, the
trains ran with all the doors open step traps open. Nobody ever fell out of
a train, as I remember, it was convenient to leave things open, as the stops
were fairly close together. Convenient, quicker uploading/downloading than
today. You can't even MOVE a train today, until ya have all the " Door
Closed Lites" Cuz people would fall overboard, the minute you moved! And sue
the RR. 40 years ago if you fell out, it was YOUR stupid fault. The signs
said" Don't ride in vestabules while train is moving"You older timer may
remenvber the cheery one for the windows" Do not put head or arms out
windows, death or injury could result" Or something like that. Whens the
last time ya been on a train with windows that will open? Or on a train,
period?
People get hit by trains all the time and survivors, surprisingly
enough it DUZ happen, get a nice settlement from the RR, comes in handy for
new arms or legs, even though they were tresspassing, on private property,
as trains usually stay on the tracks that they were trained to do. When they
get loose they have a good case, people, I mean.
Victor; when somebody gets hit by a train in Russia, do they sue the
State RR? Betya they don't collect much? And get yelled at for tying up the
schedule.
> So forget about gliders, but it's not technical issue at all.
> Fix legal system and manufacturers will gladly cooperate.
> Not 'till then, sad fact.
>
Good point, THAT'S why we dont have a thriving conversion industry
Bob@
> Victor
>
--- End Message ---
