EV Digest 2641
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: vacuum pump
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) A very Warm "Congratulations" to a friend John Wayland
by "Steven S. Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV1 insult on Jay Leno
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV1 insult on Jay Leno
by Charlie Richmond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV1 insult on Jay Leno
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Suzuki van conversion.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVLN(China's zinc-air Ebuses)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: vacuum pump
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(Sparrow Droppings) - Error on Merlin
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Suzuki van conversion.
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fun Friday, Freaking-out the Forklift Foreman!
by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Comment by Jay Leno on the Tonight Show/Wait a second
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVLN(China's zinc-air Ebuses)
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV Comment by Jay Leno on the Tonight Show/Wait a second
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Source for vacuum switches
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: Electricity for Pleasure and Pain
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV Comment by Jay Leno on the Tonight Show
by Jim Dempsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Source for vacuum switches
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Electricity for Pleasure and Pain
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Electricity for Pleasure and Pain
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) MIT MGMT Course - "Electric Vehicles: Pipe Dream or Product of
the Future?" EVs are Disruptive Technology
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) No, but I would like to become an owner
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Kostov specs and therapy
by Chris Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) NYCE bikes
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: MIT MGMT Course - "Electric Vehicles: Pipe Dream or Product of
the Future?" EVs are Disruptive Technology
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: MIT MGMT Course - "Electric Vehicles: Pipe Dream or Product of the Future?"
EVs are Disruptive Technology
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: MIT MGMT Course
by Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Thermal protection alarm! PFC forever!
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
I had made a small list of conversion projects that mentioned vacuum
pumps some time ago. You may already have seen these, but here they are:
http://advanceguard.dhs.org/conversion/Conversion20.htm
http://jerryrig.com/convert/step26.html
http://www.users.voicenet.com/~tnichols/EV/escort05.html
Alex Karahalios
On Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 09:16 AM, Shelton, John D. AW2 wrote:
Since I can't afford to build it all at once I am buying the parts as
I can
afford them. When perusing the junk yards, what is a good electrically
driven vacuum pump that I can scavenge for my future EV? It needs to
be one
that will put out enough vacuum to operate the brakes on a converted
small
pickup like an S-10 of Ranger. I know this info might not be specific
enough
but any tips would be appreciated. Thanks guys.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm usually a few days behind on my reading of the EV Discussion List,
so my apologies.
But when a post brings me to laughter, and to TEARS of JOY, I just
have to respond.
John, your writings may show the way to a third corers, that of writer.
You know,, some day when we all get too old to hoist 50# batteries in
and out of tight places. You have more than one gift here ...me
thinks.
It really warmed my heart to hear your story. I sat my family down and
read it to all of them. If only I personally had just a little more
passion or courage, to quit my job in ( mechanical, pneumatics,
plumbing, electrical, electronic, hydraulic - CAR WASH equipment
installation and maintenance ) and seek out a job close to EV's as you
have done.
Best of luck, and God's Speed !
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 396-9189
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://slough1.home.mindspring.com/seva.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Thanks James, for pointing this out. I 'was' intending on posting about it, as I saw it
,too, but then I sort of got sidetracked, so I'm glad you brought it up.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi All
>
> This is probably beneath dignity to comment on, a couple of nights ago
> (although we are probably a day or two later here) Jay Leno (a late night
> show for those who don't know) was commenting on the price of fuel. Things
> like "at $30 per gallon Los Angeles discovers sidewalks, at $40 per gallon
> only Bill Gates will be able to afford to drive an SUV uphill with the
> aircon on and towing a boat..." humorous so far,
>
> But then "...at $50 per gallon someone will actually buy an electic car!"
> with an accompanying picture of an EV1. I was suprised not to see some
> comment on list of ...someone needs to explain to this jerk that people
> WANT to buy the EV1, and GM won't SELL.
I think you missed Jay's subtle dig at GM on this one...keep reading.
>
> Or maybe that most people who see that show already know that Jay Leno is
> anti EV?
Nope, it's really quite the opposite. Jay likes EVs, especially fast ones. Here's the
history...Jay test drove an EV-1, fell in love with it, then was appalled when he
learned
that GM would not 'sell' one to him. He really wanted to own an EV-1 and was planning
on
adding it to his stable of exotic cars. Jay has input on what goes into his monologue,
and
though he has staff writers that do most of it, he still often writes many of the jokes
himself. When I saw the 'rising costs of gas' bit, when the red EV-1 popped up with the
caption about being able to 'buy' an electric car, I knew instantly it was a private
joke
from Jay, straight to GM!
> Maybe Wayland needs to visit him....
Well...in a way, I already have...well, sort of :-) Tango and Jay have already met,
read
that, Jay's been in the Tango...Tango has a Wayland sound system, Jay's heard
it....Jay's
expecting a future test drive in Tango with the full tilt Zilla 2K, twin 9 inchers, and
the stereo's CD slot filled by Smoke'n Mike Wayland's band 'Grooveyard' CD 'Jenn'll
Tell
Ya'. The demented plan, is that Jay will plop down the cash for a 0-60 in under 4
seconds
Tango, hear the full funk sounds of Grooveyard, book them on the Tonight Show, they'll
get
a big record contract, I'll get tagged to produce-mix the band again, and we'll all
live
happily thereafter.
Back down to earth.....Yeah, I've never met Jay, but he 'has' met both the EV-1 and
Tango,
and he loves fast EVs, trust me.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Bruce Tucker wrote:
> Jay Leno: "At $38 a gallon, a dealer actually sells an electric car."
>
> Of course, this could also mean that automakers start offering to sell EVs,
> not that people start buying them at this price :-)
Jay is a total car nut, actually, and I suspect this is exactly what he meant.
I don't for one minute think he is oblivious to the potential advantages of well
developed EVs.
Charlie
+------- Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd -------+
+--- NEW email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----+
+------------ http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com ------------+
+---------------"Performance for the Long Run"---------------+
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would be nice to see a rally of EV's outside Leno's
offices/studio/whatever one day. Unfortunately I am 1,000's of miles
away, or I would gladly attend on my little escoot.
Lock
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> > I'm quite happy to settle for 50kph with this and
> > concentrate on range rather than speed.
>
> In that case, you should be fine with 72v. It will be slow
> but long range.
It is unlikely to be fine with 72V, if this Lansing motor is the same
one as the local conversion I described uses. It is a shunt wound motor
and will not hit 1800RPM on 72V even completely unloaded.
Despite its incredibly low top speed of 30kph (on 78V), this EV did not
even have spectacular range. Some of this is undoubtedly due to
inefficiencies in the conversion vehicle itself, but some may also be
due to this motor not being particularly efficient in this sort of duty.
I think Garry already posted the top speed he can expect if this motor
achieves its rated 1750RPM into his 5:1 reduction differential with his
wheel size, and that speed was well below 50kph as I recall. Assuming a
wheel radius of about 11" (assuming a 14" wheel on these little vans),
this is a top speed of 36kph at a motor speed of 1750RPM.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lonnie,
if you do a search of
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=zinc-air+fuel+cell
you will read of a company that calls their zinc air
batts fuel cells (riding the wave of media excitement
of fuel cells - they are clueless, what do they know).
The product is a zinc air battery that is 'mechanically'
recharged (large flat cartridges are removed and
replaced).
The energy density is good but you need a regular
route (like a bus would) to have cartridges on hand
(infrastructure issues).
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alex wrote:
Hi John,
I had made a small list of conversion projects that mentioned vacuum pumps
some time ago. You may already have seen these, but here they are:
http://advanceguard.dhs.org/conversion/Conversion20.htm
http://jerryrig.com/convert/step26.html
http://www.users.voicenet.com/~tnichols/EV/escort05.html
Alex Karahalios
Here is another link for you.
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5565/powrbrak.html
This is the info on the GM pump I used in my Jet 007 and originally used on
my Civic conversion.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[I was wondering if someone would catch that one :-) ]
Right, the merlin will be a straight ICE. Corbin details
are usually fuzzy, but I do not think Corbin could pull
off a hybrid drive train, their resources are low.
See
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=corbin+merlin+hybrid
There are pages that use the term hybrid to mean a
mixture of use and/or design, not necessarily the drive
train.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roger,
Even based on everything said here there was something seriously wrong if
this didn't have range.
The standard battery pack would have driven it for 5 hours at 15 kph this is
a total of 75 k, so at 30k it should have had at least 2 of the 2.5 hours
running time available.
This would indicate that the batteries used were suspect if it didn't run
for long.
My wheel size is 12 inch with outer diameter of 550cm and calculated speed
with the factory 5.1 to 1 diff is 36 kph.
I can get a 4.2 to 1 diff head that might fit but this still leaves me shy
of 50 kph by a couple of k's at 1750 rpm.
I am going to look a little further into what I can find out there for this
so I have the bases covered before starting now that I am better informed.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> We last left off with my tire smoking unconventional job interview, and my resultant
> new
> position as a field service forklift technician-mechanic, but the fun has
> continued....
Thank You, John! Thank You....for such a great way to kick off my Sunday.
I'm sitting here with a bowl of Quaker Oats that I had just prepared, festively
sprinkled with juicy raisins. Steaming hot and waiting for it to cool a bit, I download
my mail. I start to read your post and come to this part:
> His best friend, Rick, is the other field service foreman, and he looks and acts
> like
> Wilford Brimley (Eat you Quaker Oats!...it's the right thing to do!)
I stopped, looked over, and thought...."you know, you're right,
I'll bet it just perfectly ready right this second". "Mmmmmm, wow John,
good call, this is delicious....nice and hot, mmmmmm, just perfect.
Then I continued reading classic stuff like:
> he felt that electric
> motors could never really have the kind of power and effortless thrust of a gas
> engine,
> and he's always talking about building a 'Merican hot rod with a big V8.
I just knew John would be the guy to kill that pathetic idea.
> Kelly learned quickly, and our launch from the house was butter
> smooth as we rolled off, even if it was at geriatric speeds...at about 10 mph, I
> said,
> "For crying out loud, step on it!" With that Kelly planted his foot down, and Blue
> Meanie
> instantly spun its rear tires as we took off cat walking slightly diagonally down the
> road. Kelly let up on it, looked over at me, and simply said, "CRAP!!!! I had 'no'
> idea!!!"
It's that very first time they feel what real power is all about that's
priceless! I remember having the equivalency of this same experience myself...
in the Blue Meanie, of course.
> When we had made it back to the Wayland EV Juice Bar and had pulled back to the
> shop, I
> made a big deal about the charging thing, imitating the whining naysayers who seem to
> constantly moan about "I don't wanna have to plug it in."
I wish I could have been there! I love the imitation John does, it inspires in
me the vision of an overweight woman, with a mole on her cheek that has a hair growing
from it, large tacky purse, too much makeup, and an excessive ensemble of large gaudy
costume jewelry. "Awww, but doncha haf tu plug it eeeeeen?"
Congratulations on the new job, John!
...John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wait a second. When you say the Rav4 was the only EV sold by "Major"
manufacturers are you including Epics, S-10s or Rangers. I bet there were a
lot of Evs manufacturered by the "Majors" that are floating around and in
use. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Thurber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:56 AM
Subject: EV Comment by Jay Leno on the Tonight Show
> Jay Leno's recent comment about a dealer selling an
> electric car when gas hits $25/gallon was
> irresponsible. The automakers have gone to great
> lengths with their PR campaigns to convince people
> that not only are battery electric vehicles a bad
> idea, but that nobody wants them. It has been a
> struggle for them since a survey of Californian's in
> the mid 90-s revealed that a vast majority of people
> liked the idea. Despite this almost decade long PR
> campaign, the truth is that every single electric car
> made by the major automakers has been leased (or sold
> in one case) immediately to people on waiting lists to
> get them. Sadly, only one electric car, Toyota's
> Rav4-EV was ever even offered for sale to the general
> public. GM's EV1 was never offered for sale to anyone,
> despite numerous offers by drivers that went so far as
> to release GM from any future liability or maintenance
> responsibility. The comment by Mr Leno not only
> capitalized on the progress made by the automaker's PR
> campaign in some people's minds, but, tragically, lent
> it credence as well. Thanks to this constant
> misinformation campaign and a relentless political and
> legal campaign waged against a now spineless
> California Air Resource Board, we are now at the truly
> tragic point where this board is poised to later this
> month eliminate *permanently* any requirements for the
> sale of Zero Emission vehicles now or in the future.
>
> Is a cheap laugh actually worth the huge price we
> continue to pay in terms of air quality, public
> health, and national security while we remain a slave
> to the oil industry and the internal combustion
> engine? You can do better Jay.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 2003-03-09 at 13:10, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> if you do a search of
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=zinc-air+fuel+cell
> you will read of a company that calls their zinc air
> batts fuel cells (riding the wave of media excitement
> of fuel cells - they are clueless, what do they know).
Good. I was afraid that my brain had stopped working since being
unemployed.
> The product is a zinc air battery that is 'mechanically'
> recharged (large flat cartridges are removed and
> replaced).
Exactly what I had thought.
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Wait a second. When you say the Rav4 was the only EV sold by "Major"
manufacturers are you including Epics, S-10s or Rangers. I bet there were a
lot of Evs manufacturered by the "Majors" that are floating around and in
use. Lawrence Rhodes....
In use is one thing. Sold to private owners not just leased is quite
another. Below is a list of EVs from the majors and their current
status. This based on what I have run across on the web or read on the
EVDL. I am sure I have missed a few or have made errors, so folks, PLEASE
correct me.
Daimler-Chrysler:-------------------------------------------
The TEVan, about 50 built and sold. They were only available to
fleets at a premium price. Program now long over and shut down. A handful
are known to be in private hands.
The EPIC, a very small number built, none sold. This is/was a
lease only vehicle.
Ford ------------------------------------------------------------
Ranger EV, a few hundred built, a handful sold, virtually all
others leased to fleets only.
Think City. A few imported and leased, all to be returned and
destroyed at the end of lease. None sold.
Postal EV. Several hundred built for postal service only. I
suspect these will never be allowed in private hands.
GM --------------------------------------------------------------
EV-1 several hundred built, none sold, lease only. Gen-1 models
to be destroyed. Used Gen-2s may be used to offset New York clean air
requirements while remaining in GM hands (even though most have already
been counted for California). A handful are being deactivated and donated
to universities.
S-10 EV a small number built, almost all leased, just a handful
sold. Remainder will almost certainly be destroyed.
Honda ---------------------------------------------------------
EV-Plus, only about 300 built, all were lease only
vehicles. Returned lease vehicles are to be cannibalized to support fuel
cell vehicle program. None sold.
Nissan --------------------------------------------------------
Altra EV, only a handful made, seem to all have disappeared. Not
sure they ever even reached private lease status.
Hypermini EV, a handful have been leased to municipal governments.
Toyota ---------------------------------------------------------
RAV-EV, offered a limited number for sale or lease. Production
complete. Hopefully the leased units will be sold at end of lease.
ECOM, not sure this was ever made available outside limited
testing and displays.
As far as I am concerned EVs that are only leased and not sold should never
have been counted for clean air purposes. They do not represent a
permanent change to the automotive mix. Only sold vehicles have any hope
of making a long term effect.
For us EV enthusiasts who don't live in California the idea of being able
to buy/lease an EV from a "Major" auto maker is just a dream. Here in
Kansas City, exactly one Ranger EV was made available before Ford required
a minimum number of units order in an area to provide support. That lone
EV is the only sign of "Major" interest in this area. Ford has imported
Ranger EVs for a local press/public ride and drive event, but after the
event the vehicles were all hauled away.
I hate to sound negative, but the winds of change have blown against
us. The dream that someday we would see parking lots full of electrics
built by the majors seems to have been killed. Baring a dramatic event
like $38 a gallon gas, that is probably the way things are going to stay
for quite some time. Meanwhile, lets do what we can, keep building
conversions, return any neglected EVs we can find back to service, and let
the public see that there is another way.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Force (x2)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question for those with vacuum brakes:
The switch on my Prizm's vacuum system comes on at way too low a pressure in
the system. Result is that the car brakes go hard *before* the pump comes
on.
This can be fatal.
I've gotten around it by bypassing the switch so the pump runs all the time.
Loud; I really need a new switch.
Does anyone make these calibrated for a car's brake system?
Thanks!
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks
I ran into this subject while surfing alternative weekly papers. I found it
to be amusing but not something I would be interested in trying.
You may have heard of the �sims� a concept popularized by science fiction
writers in which folks can �hook up� to an �artificial reality�. Well� we
aren�t quite there yet; though there do seem to be people that are into the
�stims�. :^D
This is not for kids or people who are easily shocked. :-O
I suspect that many with a fascination for all things electrical might find
it amusing and/or interesting.
Just a couple of links, you can Google for more:
http://www.thestranger.com/2003-03-06/control.html
http://www.uncleabdul.com/UAweb21.htm
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heck, when the EV1 came out, the only reason he didn't get one to add to
his collection was the fact that they were available lease only.
At 08:56 AM 3/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Jay Leno's recent comment about a dealer selling an
electric car when gas hits $25/gallon was
irresponsible.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
-----------------------------
Question for those with vacuum brakes:
The switch on my Prizm's vacuum system comes on at way too low a pressure in
the system. Result is that the car brakes go hard *before* the pump comes
on.
This can be fatal.
I've gotten around it by bypassing the switch so the pump runs all the time.
Loud; I really need a new switch.
Does anyone make these calibrated for a car's brake system?
Thanks!
Chris
-----------------------
This is adjustable, and small:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=82&product_id=1577
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Now that's what I call 'plug and play!'
People wouldn't mind 'plugging in'
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roy LeMeur
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 6:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: OT: Electricity for Pleasure and Pain
Hi Folks
I ran into this subject while surfing alternative weekly papers. I found it
to be amusing but not something I would be interested in trying.
You may have heard of the �sims� a concept popularized by science fiction
writers in which folks can �hook up� to an �artificial reality�. Well� we
aren�t quite there yet; though there do seem to be people that are into the
�stims�. :^D
This is not for kids or people who are easily shocked. :-O
I suspect that many with a fascination for all things electrical might find
it amusing and/or interesting.
Just a couple of links, you can Google for more:
http://www.thestranger.com/2003-03-06/control.html
http://www.uncleabdul.com/UAweb21.htm
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
--------------------------
Now that's what I call 'plug and play!'
People wouldn't mind 'plugging in'
------------------------------------
That's for sure Rod, some may even want a "permanent hookup" :^D
I surfed the subject a little more, these devices are getting pretty
hi-tech... fully computer driven, even processes audio input------
http://www.erostek.com
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
Ran across this MIT Management course a month ago on the web and thought I
would bring it to your attention. It's not at all positive about EVs calling
them a "Disruptive Technology." The class seems to still be in session. It's
dated February 17, 2003.
http://mit.iddl.vt.edu/courses/mgt5804/coursecontent/lecture6.html
How it hits personally is that they are using our EVA/DC website as resource
material for the students to get information on EVs. You'll see the link as
you scroll down the page in the site.
At first you may think, "Hey MIT is using our site, that's cool!" but it
really isn't. If you read about the class from the above link. It is really
negative, and gets worse towards the end.
They seem to be using the EV as a model for why technologies fail.
The PDF files they provide the class cannot be printed nor can the text from
them be copied because MIT encrypted the PDF files which is pretty odd for a
college course unless they were trying to prevent the students from
plagerism.
One of the PDF files is interesting in that it appears to be a document from
GM called the "General Motors Corporation Zero Emission Vehicles Production
Action Plan" Can't tell if it is really official or not.
We are pretty use to the negativeness by now but when we find out
Institutions of higher learning are adding to it, doesn't help matters.
If you can get past the negativeness, it is interesting reading and you get
a perspective from the industry's side.
Why MIT seems to be pushing the industries position is another matter.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA Power of DC Racing Chairman/Webmaster
http://www.powerofdc.com
144 volt Ford Escort
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Some know that I have several groups for specific
EV drivers to discuss their vehicle's particular
issues. This is more focused than the EV List, and
many on these groups are also members of other
discussion areas like the EV List.
I invoked a petition to block the holes in the
yahoo group system that spammers use to write all
over the groups.
One of the questions is:
-Do you have one of these vehicles?
( 'Yes' , 'On Order', or 'No & explain why do you
want to join in this group?' )
: No, but I would like to become an owner
When this comes for subscription of a production
EV group, it is heart breaking.
Last week, I had the transporation person of a
corporation want to buy sme for their fleet. I
also had a newbie who wanted to plunk down cash
for a new EV.
Today i got another one from aperson who does not
know that the automakers have stopped making their
EVs.
...
Its like the automkaers' decision to stop was too
soon. The requests for EVs are just starting. Perhaps
automakers are too fat-n-happy with ICE sales and
want a fast response on EV sales that they have not
sold well.
The automakers bad decisions will still continue to
confuse the public when their own web sites still
state they make these EVs:
http://www.gmev.com/
http://www.ford.com/en/redirect/think/default.htm
http://www.fleet.ford.com/products/alternative_vehicles/electric/2002_Ranger_EV.asp?vcode=930
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' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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A World Business report on PBS KCSM San Mateo
Channel 60, is a Series on Finance 30 Mins. long.
Tonight's (Mar 09 07:00pm PST) Original Airdate
was May 3, 2002.
A portion of the piece started out on segway (and
we all have heard way too much about segway). Now
that segways are actually being sold for $5000,
nEV companies are ordering to keep them on hand to
sell off the show room floor.
The piece was focused in NY, so a local Ebike/Escooter
store NYCE Wheels http://www.nycewheels.com was
interviewed.
[A web search for their site was poor. Their main
page needs to be adjusted to be easily from with
keywords NYCE electric
Those are the two catchy items that will stick in the
public's mind (NYCE as in NY City + sounds like nice,
and the public will remember that they sell those
Electric 'things')]
The NYCE rep said that nEV business is good, 60,000
nEVs (or PETs - person Electric transportation) were
sold last year, which made a half a million ($US).
The man on the street said if the segway price came
down he would by it like a hi-tech toy. segway has
already gotten 30 states to view the segway as a
wheelchair, thus allowing segways on sidewalks.
...
Automakers went about this all wrong. Instead of
marketing a $60,000 EV1 to compete with SUVs on the
highway, they should have sued CARB to let them
sell\give-away Escoots to earn CARB credits.
Then everyone would have one, be EV addicted, and
want the next improved EV models (building the
market). This would jump-start the EV market by
starting-out with cheap nEVs.
Of course the automakers would have to be committed
to making EVs (which they are not).
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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It actually appears to be an MIT, as in a "Master's in Information
Technology" course at Virginia Tech which makes the choice of the EVA/DC
web site a little more logical. (http://mit.iddl.vt.edu/courses/mgt5804/)
I'll assume the PDF examples must be made up... I looked at the first
two, and they are polar opposites with example #1 being completely
anti-EV and #2 being much more optimistic discussing how disruptive
technology can be used to advantage.
It would be nice to talk to the students and find out how the subject is
being treated in class. And to get the Tappet Brothers to ride in Blue
Meanie and learn what has changed with EVs since 1910.
PS I'm still irked at MIT for hosting a building conference next week
which seems to have included biodiesel and fuel cells as a
"construction" issue (along with solar, insulation, ventilation etc) yet
not included EVs.
Chip Gribben wrote:
Hi everyone,
Ran across this MIT Management course a month ago on the web and thought I
would bring it to your attention. It's not at all positive about EVs calling
them a "Disruptive Technology." The class seems to still be in session. It's
dated February 17, 2003.
http://mit.iddl.vt.edu/courses/mgt5804/coursecontent/lecture6.html
How it hits personally is that they are using our EVA/DC website as resource
material for the students to get information on EVs. You'll see the link as
you scroll down the page in the site.
At first you may think, "Hey MIT is using our site, that's cool!" but it
really isn't. If you read about the class from the above link. It is really
negative, and gets worse towards the end.
They seem to be using the EV as a model for why technologies fail.
The PDF files they provide the class cannot be printed nor can the text from
them be copied because MIT encrypted the PDF files which is pretty odd for a
college course unless they were trying to prevent the students from
plagerism.
One of the PDF files is interesting in that it appears to be a document from
GM called the "General Motors Corporation Zero Emission Vehicles Production
Action Plan" Can't tell if it is really official or not.
We are pretty use to the negativeness by now but when we find out
Institutions of higher learning are adding to it, doesn't help matters.
If you can get past the negativeness, it is interesting reading and you get
a perspective from the industry's side.
Why MIT seems to be pushing the industries position is another matter.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA Power of DC Racing Chairman/Webmaster
http://www.powerofdc.com
144 volt Ford Escort
--
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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Folks,
Regarding "disruptive technologies", I haven't taken any management
courses, but from what I heard at a conference once, a disruptive
technology isn't bad at all (as the name might initially imply). My
understanding is that a disruptive technology is one that disrupts the
status quo, usually by coming in under the radar of the big players of a
given industry, and only appearing in a big way once it's too late for
the "big dogs" to stop it.
The example I heard used was in wristwatches. The Swiss had the lock on
the watch industry forever, with precision movements, etc. Along came
the invention of the quartz crystal watch. The Swiss companies weren't
interested--they already had a superior product (to the early quartz
movements). The Japanese picked it up, perfected it, and now own most
of the watch market. The Swiss companies saw it, had the opportunity to
take advantage of it, but didn't, and the whole industry was disrupted
by this one invention.
In this sense, I do see EVs as potentially very disruptive. The big
automakers had the opportunity to get into the market, but chose not to,
figuring that it's too small and not profitable enough. However, along
come cars like the Sparrow, or the Tango, or the Reva, or other EVs from
small companies, and the right environment (perhaps an extended Mideast
war causes gas prices to spike, or a Tango gets some very high publicity
spots in the media), and suddenly there is a demand for EVs. The big
boys are playing catch-up, and get stuck with millions of dollars of
SUVs they can no longer sell. It happened before during the last energy
crisis--I think that's what really let the Japanese companies get their
foot in the door with the compacts. It could happen again. And I think
we'd all breathe easier if it did.
I would be excited to consider EVs a disruptive technology. I hope it
is.
Dean
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>The PDF files they provide the class cannot be printed nor can the text
>from them be copied
Oh, that depends upon what program you use to open them. Here's the opening
paragraph of the first 10 page handout .pdf:
"The electric vehicle is infeasible after considering all its disadvantages
of speed, constantly recharging battery, and costs in comparison to regular
internal combustion engine vehicles."
Gee, that sets a positive tone! Someone want to send these knuckleheads an
e-mail and tell them to go find their own research and lay off "using" us
to prove their judgemental theories?
BTW, if anyone want to know more about the program that I used to extract
the text, drop me a message, or if there's enough interest, I'll post some
particulars here.
-S
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Took me completely by surprise. I was just pulling out of the
driveway for a test run of the D on Saturday when she stopped.
Turned off the hydraulic pump motor and turned the key on again:
Power to the fan but no main contactor click. Bummer! So I went
back into the house to get the contoller's hand programmer,
turned it on again and the readout said "TH PROTECTION ALARM".
Wow, here I am in my parka and thick gloves with a dead
controller that thinks it is too hot? Back into the house to
haul out the manual. TH PROTECTION ALARM is set by controller
temperatures < -10C or > 77C. Minus 10C??? Oh, man, I'll never
get to drive this car! Ambient temperature was -20C, having gone
up with the warm spring sun from the morning's -42C (or F for
that matter - when it's that cold C=F). My nicely insulated
garage had maintained -20C despite the cold night, and it hadn't
risen much despite the fan in the doorway all morning blowing
warm air in from the house. Sigh. I love this country.
I have a question for the list gurus: Why have a thermal
protection alarm for cold temperatures? Doesn't silicon like it
cool?
It seemed kind of silly, but I did want to get off the driveway
before dark, especially since the forecast was for -32C. I strung
150 feet of extension cord out to the car and put a little space
heater under the hood, directed at the controller's heat sink.
Actually ruined one extension cord when a length of insulation
shattered and fell off, leaving bare twisted wires! No more neon
green Costco extension cords for me - if it don't say "Made in
Canada" or "Made in Siberia", or Finland or something, I don't
want it. After about 10 minutes of heat, the controller was
happy again and I was off, except for an incorrect start sequence
alarm caused by some stray wires getting caught in the throttle
return spring. (I knew I had to tie those out of the way, but I
have so many balls in the air that one just had to be dropped).
I freed up the throttle and drove off, not, as a sensible person
would do, back to the garage to fix things better, but down the
road for a joyride and over to my neighbors to show off, only to
get another TH PROTECTION ALARM, followed by another start
sequence alarm in front of their place. All right already, I'll
tie the wires up permanently! I'll put a heater on the heat sink!
I'll draw more current, so it keeps itself warm. I bet Berube
never had a controller freeze up!
Today things went a bit better. A quick shot of heat to warm up
the controller and Gisele and I were off, no problem except for
the stuck throttle due to me stupidly not replacing the throttle
return spring. Sheesh! Maybe it's time to give up for the day
and get some rest, eat some brain food or something...
Mike Hoskinson
Edmonton
Zapi Sepex controller, Kostov motor, custom parts from CEV.
P.S. Memo to Rich: The PFC-50 works fine in the p.f.c.
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