EV Digest 2704
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Oakland's proposed Segway ban
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Universal Posts
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Remote control for a PFC charger?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Back to Sparrow (Was: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow))
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Oakland's proposed Segway ban
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Henny Electric
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: electrical fields and health concerns
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: It Spins!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: James Jarret's Henny Kilowatt
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) One man has two spare tires (Local News Story)
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Another celebrity validates BEV technology on NPR
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Driving in Air Conditioned Comfort
by GreenVW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow)
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Datsun 240Z Conversion Progress/S10 for sale
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) A day I had dreaded finally came....(long story)
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: BMS for Li-Ion cells cost question
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Solectria Force - any impressions?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Unlike the San Fransisco sidewalk ban, which mandates that
> Segway riders instead ride in Bicycle lanes and follow
> traffic rules, the Oakland ban completely bans any use
> within city limits. It is an all-out ban on a particular
> type of electric transportation.
This seems _extremely_ unreasonable. When operated within a bike lane, how
is a segway any different than a bike? (Aside from the lower top speed, of
course..)
I know I'm not the biggest segway fan in the world, but I'll happily write a
legislator or three to defend the rights of others to drive anything they
like, provided it's used in a reasonable and safe manner.
This is like the Salem Witch Trials.. 'Well, we don't understand how it
works, so it must be black magic. Ban it!'
Someone needs to go boot some head in Oakland. Does anyone know who we can
email to express our displeasure? I see links below to documents, but not to
email addresses.
> This is the only type of transportation that is outright
> banned within city limits that I know of. Seeing how
> alternative forms of transportation are your mission, I
> think you see the fear that this causes. I can easily see
> similar moves to outlaw other ZEV's, NEV'S, Zappys, Xooters,
> Sparrows, etc.
Exactly. And even if there isn't, it's a unfair and unreasonable thing to
do.
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > I'm not sure this would work very well. I believe that
belleville
> > washers are made out of spring steel. If you "spank" a
regular washer
> > and then tighten it flat, it will probably be quite happy to
stay flat
> > (I.e. little or no pressure)
>
> That is exactly right. When we were working on the Tango, we
orderd a
> box of belleville spring washers. What we got were plain steel
washers
> that had been dished like this. They were worthless.
>
> We called the supplier. As I recall (Rick Woodbury handled it),
most
> hardware now comes from el-cheapo suppliers. If you don't
provide a part
> number and don't watch the brand, you'll get junk like this.
>
> So, we re-ordered with an explicit part number, and got a real
> belleville spring washer. It is indeed spring steel, and when
squeezed
> flat, it springs right back. That's what it is supposed to do.
By doing
> so, it keeps the connection tight even as the lead terminal
creeps.
Oops, sorry guys for the bum steer. I'll have to try and
remember where I used them and see what is going on with them.
Lesson learned!
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> >
> > One of the thought processes I've had going in background
mode is
> > where to do a permanent install of a PFC-20 (or better yet, a
> > PFC-50 ;-)) in the ol' Yellow Banana (Rabbit). The PFC-20 is
> > probably handle-able without too much sweat, but the PFC-50
is
> > another story. After looking at Bruce's beautiful BIG PFC-50
a
> > few weeks ago, it doesn't look easy. Inside the passenger
> > compartment, which I'd prefer to avoid, perhaps the charger
could
> > be bolted to the floor underneath one of the seats, although
I
> > suspect vertical clearance would kill this idea. Footrest in
a
> > box - perhaps - knees high for rear passengers, and
> > tripping/kicking potential. If I could get the
airconditioning
> > box out from in front of the stick shift, maybe a PFC-20 on
the
> > tunnel would work, but the PFC-50 seems too long. So I keep
> > coming back to the idea of putting the charger underneath the
> > car, mounted in the hole underneath the rear seat where the
gas
> > tank came out. Even though that area is covered by a
bellypan
> > (and the bellypan is not guaranteed to be in place), I'd
still
> > have to put the charger in some kind of protective box with
> > ventilation fans (how many pounds are we adding?). As the
> > charger would be inaccessible, I would have to have some way
of
> > monitoring and controlling it remotely, perhaps with wire
leads
> > leading up to where I normally charge at with the Zivan.
Anyone
> > done anything like this, and would Rich have a hissy-fit
knowing
> > that this kind of setup existed? I remember the discussion
of
> > stuffing a PFC under the "hood" of a Sparrow, which was
pretty
> > radical. After the PFC install, I'd have to deal with the
Avcon
> > inlet install (I think I got that one figured), before I
could
> > come up to the level of Bruce's ampabouts.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck Hursch
> > Larkspur, CA
> > NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> > www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
>
> Hissy Fit??? ummm no, how about directions???
>
> We have a remote, but it's kinda crude, and works with our
bench gear.
> We have a remote port on the PFC control PCBs, and have had for
a couple
> of dozzen units.
> Joe buildt one for the Windloader, and it works but is noise
sensitive,
> and tracks your hand as you get close to it. NOT ready for the
big time,
> but some shielding and more caps and it should work. You will
need to
> poke some holes in the green paint. Oh that's MY job... No clue
to the
> cost, it's simple and is where we hope to land some micro
brains this
> year.
> Doing a analog one with a digi pot for volts and knob for amps,
is a
> $100 solution even with a enclosure.
> I have one, I can show you what it is, and how to wire it, but
hey it's
> not factory backed yet with pretty green paint.
Rich, no need to do it now, but it's something I want to keep in
mind. You'll certainly get there before I do. Another thing
occurred to me about the in-the-gas-tank-hole idea that's a bit
of a bummer: last Xmas-time during the rains when I was doing
UPS holiday-help, I parked my EV unwittingly at the low end of a
parking lot before jumping on the truck. After a few hours I was
getting nervous about the thought of water, so the driver and I
went back to the lot. I'm glad we did (!), since the big puddle
was well up my wheels. Needless to say, the thought of
submerging a $2200 charger has given me second thoughts about the
location, although the water might not have gotten up high
enough, but I'll bet it was within inches. And there was also
another big puddle that I had to drive through - it's kinda like
pullin' up your pants, you know?
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ed,
Speaking of eye candy, I don't know if you (or others) have seen
the shot that I got from Corbin. Check out
www.geocities.com/nbeaa/pastmeetings.htm (March 2002).
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:11 AM
Subject: Back to Sparrow (Was: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin
sparrow))
> Well my Sparrow does great commuting at 70-75mph at ~100amps.
Don't have to
> worry about the SUVs because they're stuck in the non-diamond
lane
> congestion since they are typically commuting without any
passengers.
>
> And the big Green shoebox happily outputs 54+ amps dc back into
the pack.
> Wide open, I have yet to trip a 40a 208/230v breaker. But
sucking off of
> Avcons is different; have to limit the pull to <40a output
unless I want to
> reset the public charging station box, or lock it down until it
can be
> serviced.
>
> Still a wonderful way to commute, and great for flat, straight
freeways with
> diamond lanes. And even without the flashy blight colors, like
duck yellow,
> a Sparrow is hard to ignore.
>
> Keeping the EV spirit alive in the fast lane,
> Ed Thorpe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> I try not to think about that while blasting up Bond road in
the Dark at
> 65 and 200 amps. John L. ya know there this little humm from
the 8 incher at
> about 62
> MPH.....
>
> That lovely Zivan gave a whooping 9 amps and still open the 15
amp
> breaker after I got 1 Kwhr out of the wall at Poulsbo Athletic
Club.
> HUmmm I need to get the Green box shoe horned into Tweety.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did I miss something or did your guys miss something. I understood it is
using natural gas to power this thing. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: New Hydrogen Production System?
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jon "Sheer" Pullen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: April 4, 2003 10:59 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
> >
> >
> > I'm naturally suspicious of anything that claims to give
> > something for nothing - which is in essence what this device
> > is claiming to do.
> >
> > My guess is this is another scam of the 'free energy' kind.
>
> Yep. I notice that while they provide the example of electrolysis
> consuming "1000W of energy" to produce gas representing "900W of
> energy", they do not provide any numbers quantifying how much better
> their process is.
>
> Furthermore, they claim that using their device 30gal of water would
> provide sufficient energy for an average home for the 20yr typical
> lifetime of their product. With a bit of digging, I come up with the
> following:
>
> - 1kg of H2 is approximately the energy equivalent of 1gal gasoline
> (Stuart Energy website)
> - H20 is 11.19% H2 by weight (based on relative atomic weights of H2 and
> H2O)
> - 30gal H20 weighs about 250lb, and so contains about 12.7kg H2
> - 1gal gasoline = 1kg H2 = approx. 144000 BTU = 13.33kWh
>
> Thus, these people would have us believe that using their device an
> average [electric] home's energy needs could be satisfied by
> approximately 169kWh of energy over a 20yr period. (And this neglects
> the fact that they do state that some of the H2 produced by their device
> is consumed by the device, and so is not available to satisfy the home's
> energy needs.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I might be a way of making a CNG/electric hybrid. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
> they're obviously not too up-front about what their device does, but they
do
> at least manage to say it by the end of their little BS session.
>
> "Installing the gas generation feature of the Edison Device simply
> requires connecting the device's gas feed line directly into the existing
> natural gas line".
>
> they're just burning a fossil fuel to reform their hydrogen. a simple
> energy conversion method that is already in use. they just like to make it
> seem mysterious and high-tech with all of the technobabble and gCell-eCell
> crap. if they have improved efficiency with their process, it would be
worth
> hearing more about, but instead of pointing to it directly, they take the
> course of trying to make it sound like some sort of cold-fusion -
perpetual
> motion machine. the use of this approach should tell anyone that the
> customers they want have fewer IQ points than my car has batteries.
nothing
> here that anyone on this list should be excited about.
> -doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:10 PM
> Subject: RE: New Hydrogen Production System?
>
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jon "Sheer" Pullen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: April 4, 2003 10:59 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: New Hydrogen Production System?
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm naturally suspicious of anything that claims to give
> > > something for nothing - which is in essence what this device
> > > is claiming to do.
> > >
> > > My guess is this is another scam of the 'free energy' kind.
> >
> > Yep. I notice that while they provide the example of electrolysis
> > consuming "1000W of energy" to produce gas representing "900W of
> > energy", they do not provide any numbers quantifying how much better
> > their process is.
> >
> > Furthermore, they claim that using their device 30gal of water would
> > provide sufficient energy for an average home for the 20yr typical
> > lifetime of their product. With a bit of digging, I come up with the
> > following:
> >
> > - 1kg of H2 is approximately the energy equivalent of 1gal gasoline
> > (Stuart Energy website)
> > - H20 is 11.19% H2 by weight (based on relative atomic weights of H2 and
> > H2O)
> > - 30gal H20 weighs about 250lb, and so contains about 12.7kg H2
> > - 1gal gasoline = 1kg H2 = approx. 144000 BTU = 13.33kWh
> >
> > Thus, these people would have us believe that using their device an
> > average [electric] home's energy needs could be satisfied by
> > approximately 169kWh of energy over a 20yr period. (And this neglects
> > the fact that they do state that some of the H2 produced by their device
> > is consumed by the device, and so is not available to satisfy the home's
> > energy needs.)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it is sad when loud abnoxious, smelly & dangerously driven weed
wackers on wheels are allowed and this quiet and safe form is being banned.
It's the driver mostly and not the vehicle. This is political. Not
logical. The Segway should at least be treated as a road vehicle.
Lawrence Rhodes.......I wouldn't use one but that's not the
point.................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:24 PM
Subject: Oakland's proposed Segway ban
>
> -
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:53:42 -0800 (GMT)
> From: Bruce Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Segways to be banned in Oakland
>
> I am a Segway owner and electrical vehicle proponent in Los
> Angeles. I use my Segway to commute to work 6 miles a day!
>
> I'm writing you because I know that Segways are very likely
> to be banned in Oakland in the next three weeks. The
> proposed legislation has already been unanimously approved,
> and the final vote is upcoming.
>
> The reason I'm writing you is that the legislation will
> likely affect members of your organization.
>
> Unlike the San Fransisco sidewalk ban, which mandates that
> Segway riders instead ride in Bicycle lanes and follow
> traffic rules, the Oakland ban completely bans any use
> within city limits. It is an all-out ban on a particular
> type of electric transportation.
>
> This is the only type of transportation that is outright
> banned within city limits that I know of. Seeing how
> alternative forms of transportation are your mission, I
> think you see the fear that this causes. I can easily see
> similar moves to outlaw other ZEV's, NEV'S, Zappys, Xooters,
> Sparrows, etc.
>
> If they ban a 12 mile per hour Segway, I must think that a
> 17MPH Xooter is next.
>
> Please let your friends and supporters know about this
> threat to electric transportation.
>
> My phone number is 818 400-6083 if you have any questions.
> Other discussions on this subject can be found on the user
> forums at www.segwaychat.com
>
> Thanks again.
> -Bruce Wright
> Sherman Oaks, CA
>
>
> The banning of Segway on both the sidewalks and streets of
> Oakland is on the agenda for the Oakland City Council
> meeting on Tuesday 8th April.
>
> Coucil Meeting Agenda for Tues 8th April :
> http://www.oaklandnet.com/government/council/agenda_4-8.html
>
> Report from Oakland Police Department:
>
http://www.oaklandnet.com/government/council/reports/04-08-03/Council/9brpt.
pdf
>
> Resolution from Public Safety Committee:
>
http://www.oaklandnet.com/government/council/reports/04-08-03/Council/9b1res
o.pdf
>
> Here's the text of the proposed law:
>
> "No person shall operate an Electric Personal Assistive
> Mobility Device (EPAMD) upon any sidewalk, crosswalk,
> pathway, trail, bike lane, bike path, street, road, or
> highway in the City of Oakland
>
> "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device" means a
> self-balancing, non-tandem, two-wheeled device, that can
> turn in place and is designed to transport only one person,
> with an electric propulsion system averaging less that 750
> watts (one horsepower), as defined in California Vehicle
> Code Section 313.
>
> Any person who violates Section 10.16.230 of the Oakland
> Municipal Code shall be guilty of an infraction and, upon
> conviction thereof, shall be punished as proscribed in
> Oakland Municipal Code Section 1.28.020 - Violations as
> Infractions, paragraph B.
> -
>
>
> [ http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/segway_ht/ ]
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks.
I hope it won't come to that as the shipping would kill me!
I have a local mechanic that specializes in "unusual" cars. I went to talk to
him yesterday and had an interesting conversation. It went something like:
ME: Hey Dan, I got a challenge for you.
DAN: Ok, what you got?
ME: I just bought a 1959 Renault Dauphine
DAN: *SMILES* Man, you are a glutton for punishment!
ME: That's not the half of it, it's an electric car!
DAN: *Spotlighted Deer Look* *Stunned Silenece*
ME: Anyway, I don't need the electrics worked on, I'll do that, but she needs
a new back seat and some brake work.
Dan: You must be living right. You are not going to belive this, but I have an
old Renalt A-10 in the back lot. About 1/2 the parts on that car are the same
as the ones on the Dauphine!
So now I was the stunned one. Went out and looked at the car, and it looks like
I'll have all the componets I'll need.
But I'll definately keep your offer in mind.
James
Quoting Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> If you are blocked with renault parts availability on your side of the
> pond,
> i will be able to help you.
>
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And he probably called from his cell phone, completely oblivious to the tumor that is
forming just inside his skull!
----- Original Message -----
From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:33:53 +1200
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: electrical fields and health concerns
> Hi,
>
> I know there is concern about high voltage lines around the world,but there
> doesn't seem to be any cross over into concern for power in your house.
>
> As most ev's run on similar voltages to your house, which contains many
> sources of similar electrical and magnetic fields, such as fans, fridges,
> freezers, microwaves, computers, TV's, radio's, etc , I suspect the answer
> is unless you are living in a cave to avoid all these trappings of modern
> society then you would likely be safe driving an EV.
>
> Normal cars already have these same fields too in the coil the starter and
> the alternator, but no one worries about them if the car wont start they
> just keep on cranking till the battery is dead.
>
> The TV microwave and computers are known to give off radiation that is
> harmful, but I bet he didn't ask the guy in the TV shop about radiation
> levels when he got his TV.
>
> Its a funny world we live in.
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
Stay Charged!
Hump
--
__________________________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Congrats, David, on the new motor purchase.
David Dymaxion wrote:
> It spins!
>
> It has been a big hurdle for me, ordering that first major EV
> component. I decided to get a motor first....out came the jumper cables and a car
> battery...Wow, sparks! I wasn�t expecting that with just 12
> volts.....Now just the details of installing the motor, throwing in some
> batteries and a charger and a controller, and I�ll be racing
> electrically!
I enjoyed your play by play description of the motor test spin. Keep us all informed as
you move along with your project...the EVDL needs more good
'EV adventure' type stories!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James and All,
For a good batt charger use 36vdc lester ferro
golf cart charger with the full wave rectifier
replaced with a bridge rectifier thus increasing the
voltage to 72vdc nom. while dropping amps in 1/2.
Using 2 of them both at 72 vdc for more
charging current, speed so if 1 dies you still have a
balanced pack that allows you to use 110 or 220vac
outlets with adapters.
You can find them dead, cheaply/free at
golfcart shops. They usually just need a timer or
rectifiers to fix them.
They are a good choice to keep your batts
charged right while keeping the hit on your pocket
low. They are good in power factor too compared to
most chargers out there.
HTH,
jerry dycus
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Don't know about the controller, but the range,
> according to everyone whom I
> have spoken with and what I have read is in the
> 35-50 mile range.
>
> Depends on speed and hills. Based on my commute, I
> expect to get about 40+- out
> of her once I replace the batts.
>
> James
>
>
> Quoting michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > Congratulations to James on acquiring a working
> (we hope) piece of EV
> > history!
> > I remember a list member named (?) Jack Gretta who
> had (I think) one or
> > more of these.
> > Anybody know what they used for a controller?
> > What was their presumed or actual range?
> > Thanks-
> > Michael B.
> >
> >
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two spare tires are better than one for a local Phoenix commuter.
A man I work with has been driving his daughter's electric scooter to work
for the last four days. His ICE pickup truck is down for regularly scheduled
maintenance. He lives a brief three minutes from our electronics assembly
plant in North West Phoenix. He admitted to me that it's three minutes in
his truck or three minutes on the sccoter. Seems that he encounters fewer
stop lights on the sidewalk and less traffic congestion.
My co-worker admitted that his engine barely warms up during his commute and
he is actually considering using the scooter or another vehicle more often,
as weather permits. I sure hope we have a new LEV convert here in The Valley
of the Sun.
Reported by Rick Pryor
Roving would-be reporter and EV advocate
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV World has a link to a story that aired on NPR this week. It featured an
interview with several local residents in California, as well as Seinfeld
star Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
http://evworld.com/index.cfm
I was especially enthrawled to hear the subject of parts and service
mentioned with much weight and gusto. My hat is raised in gratitude to our
EV warriors who continue to question the marketing stradegies and the tiring
old lines of the auto makers. Hopefully CARB will consider their future
deals more carefully.
Regards to All,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The temperature was in the low to mid 80's, in Florida yesterday. Hotter
sitting in stop and go traffic. The heat gave me a good opportunity to try
out my A/C. The compressor is only engaged when the throttle is disengaged.
No battery pack power is used to rotate the compressor, it is powered solely
by the energy that would normally be lost as brake heat. The blower fan and
condensor fan are driven by the accessory battery. The A/C provided
consistent 40-45 degree air with no impact on acceleration or range. City
traffic provided plenty of red lights/obnoxious drivers, now known as
Compressor Engagement Opportunities. The compressor also engages when I
depress the clutch to upshift, not only providing a CEO but also provides a
smoother upshift (no longer lunges forward) as I am using the stock
flywheel. The A/C doesn't do much on the highway stretches, but thats what
the Safari Windshields are for.
Ben
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html
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Crash testing of the Tango would be interesting. The cage frame is similar
to NASCAR standards (tubing and construction), except NASCAR vehicles have
front and rear clips that can deform, and quite a bit of mass that is easily
shed. The Tango has just the driver cage, and the largest weight component
(battery) is non-sheddable. And the Tango will be driven on streets, where
the speeds are 1/4 that of NASCAR tracks. The cage could prove to be too
rigid. Those 'horrific' looking NASCAR crashes, where the car goes
tumbling, deforming (clips and panels), and shedding parts goes a long way
towards reducing the impact on the driver.
NASCAR vehicles have gone through two rigidity cycles that I'm aware of. One
was the Featherlite Modifieds (
http://www.nascartouring.com/featherlitemodifiedseries/ ), which during the
mid 80's (IIRC) the frame designs became so rigid, that drivers were
regularly dying in crashes, yet at times the cars needed minor repairs to
return to racing. The impact forces were directly transmitted to the
driver. Surprising to me, during the later 90's the same issue recurred in
the Cup and BGN series. The benefit of the rigid chassis is predictable and
repeatable chassis tuning, and they kept moving in that direction until the
inevitable happened.
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Hi All -
I haven't posted in a while, haven't had much to say, and sadly haven't
been working on the car much because of college. However, I have made
*some* progress and thought I'd take a minute this rainy morning and
give everyone a little update.
I have completely torn down my '72 Datsun 240Z, inside and outside.
All of the suspension and drivetrain parts are out on the bench, seats
and panels are out from inside, and the car is sitting on jack stands
in the garage. Cleaning work has begun in the engine compartment;
after a good pressure washing it's time to take the heat gun and paint
stripper to the 31 year old undercoating which, while it is extremely
annoying now, has done it's job fabulously and provided me with an idea
conversion car which is in excellent condition. The car is so light
right now that I can lift up either end by myself! Once all the
undercoating comes off and I do a little repair work in the wheel wells
and one one fender I am going to prep the car for painting and have my
friend at a local body shop give it a gorgeous new coat of white paint!
I have thus far purchased new strut cartridges, springs, suspension
bushings, brake parts (anyone know a good source for reasonably priced
70-72 240Z rear wheel cylinders?), used DCP T-Rex 1000, new clutch, and
a gorgeous new WarP 9" motor which is sitting in my garage lined up
next to my Datsun's old 4-speed with a big chunk of aluminum adapter
plate all waiting to be all bolted together just as soon as I finish
making my hub. I'm using the end of the original engine's crankshaft
as the hub and right now I am just working on getting the end of it cut
off (fairly awkward cut) and then I'm going to put it on the lathe at
WPI's machine shop and bore a hole and keyway down the middle for the
motor shaft. After that I'm going to have to counterbore from the
flywheel end and press in a piece of metal to hold the pilot bushing in
place. It should be pretty slick when it is all done!
**To be able to afford the rest of this project I am going to have to
sell my electric S10 conversion soon. Please let me know if you are
interested or know anyone who would be. It is a solid conversion with
top quality components. Over 300 hours of work and $13,000 went into
that truck!! I will consider all reasonable offers - I obviously don't
expect to recover everything that went into the conversion. Truck is
located in Brunswick, ME but I can tow if necessary**
Photos of my S10 and Datsun conversion up at
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ which I will try to update whenever I make
progress. Happy EVing!
See ya
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
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My 1991 Toyota finally needed a repair last week. I had the intense
displeasure of smearing myself with slimey oil, grease, grit and ICE filth,
three inches above the elbows. I had to change the water pump. And all the
time I'm thinking about how many extra labor steps were involved in the
process. This would likely cost about $300.00 in labor at a Toyota
dealership. This is the first car I've ever owned that I almost needed an
engine hoist to replace an external accessory.
Between hidden bolts, having to remove and disassemble otherwise seemingly
unrelated parts and sub assemblies, I managed to get it torn down in the
brief course of about 6 hours or so. The end was around 6:30 PM Sunday. I
decided I had enough back ache and grime immersion for one day. My plan was
to call in a much needed and long overdue vacation day on Monday in order to
finish the job.
One good thing came of this ordeal. Early Monday morning I needed to get to
the store about a mile or a bit more from my home. I thought about walking,
but thought better of that. I decided that maybe R-ecycle, my trusty ebike
might make the round trip a bit quicker. Even pedalling, and not using the
tired old pack that seemed to be nearing it's retirement the last time I
rode it last October, seemed a much faster and easier means of travel.
I dragged the dusty old Schwinn out of the garage, grabbed my 12 volt air
pump and a 7 Ah SLA/AGM and pumped up the leaky rear tire.
Off I went up the street. I took the sidewalk most of the way, as I knew the
street would represent an obvious death wish, as it was around 8 AM and
traffic was still in full congestion as people veered and steered themselves
into possible oblivion in order to get around. I calmly rode along, checking
for last minute brake jobs and people turning left without scanning for
pedestrians first. I enjoyed the ride as I silently rode across
intersections and dodging an occasional rock of greater diameter than my
tires.
I hit a long section of sidewalk where I had at least 200 yards of pavement
in front of me with no side streets, so decided to fire up the saw motor.
Much to my joy, it pulled me from about 10 MPH up to 20 with an amazing
amount of torque, considering that I feared the pack would be pretty flat
from sitting all Winter in teh garage without being charged or used at all.
I decide that 20 MPH on an old 10 speed on a sidewalk is just a little bit
too fast for safeties' sake.
I was welcomed into the store along with my ebike. I voiced my appreciation
for the prviledge of indoor parking for electric powered vehicles, with a
smile and and slight giggle. The store was a very small area with two
workers inside. The man looked in disbelief at the arrangement of gadgets
and contraptions. He couldn't help but smile and then he started asking me
questions about the bike. He seemed very amused but had serious questions
that I answered with enthusiasm. He told me he thought it was a really neat
idea and that I should consider trying to market copies of it. I thanked him
for his compliments, gave proper credit to the originator and said my good
byes.
Next stop was the soda machine, and then I moved down the front of the
grocery store and along to an unused portion of the sidewalk....near the
bicycle rack by coincedence. While taking my break before the ride back to
start putting the little blue dragon back together, a man on an older ten
speed rode up and parked his steel horse and secured it's reins to the rack.
He struck up a conversation and we talked and talked....and talked. Turns
out he prefers riding his bike instead fo driving his gas hog 71 Mustang. He
lives very near me and we exchanged phone numbers and planned to keep in
touch. I invited him to stop by my house later if he had time.
About an hour after I got back to the house, here he came, silently gliding
down my long driveway, his presence announced and punctuated by my
scaredy-cat dog and faithful companion Emme, a 12 pound Jack Russel
terrier/Schnauzer mix. I gave the man a mini tour and decided to show off
some fo my meager collection of toys. He was excited about seeing my solar
panels that I brough tout and hooked up to the bike to do my bulk charging.
I actually rode back part way on the street and felt confident enough in the
pack to run the motor off and on, being conservative with energy usage. The
pack would be drained enough to need a quick refill of electrons. I told
Reggie, my newly found future ebike convert, that I would hook the bike to a
small plug in charger later to allow the batteries to get charged up all the
way, deeply and equally.
So, my demise with the car got the bike into the eyes and minds fo two
people who would have otherwise thought nothing about EV's or batteries,
unless for their cell phones and laptop computer at the store, where the man
was busy tallying up the inventory and adjusting the count.
My new friend has voiced an interest in someday building something for
himself and asked if I could assist him. I told him I'd be happy to help him
and when he asked about how much I would charge, I told him the info and
assistance wouldn't cost him a dime. I added that I'd be happy to just help
somebody else attain a bit of freedom from the lures and lies and
stranglehold certain named industries have on our society.
Out and about for the cause with renewed vigor and hope, your would-be
roving reporter, sending regards to ALL and cheers,
Rick Pryor
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Yeah, old thread, but I've been busy....
At 02:46 PM 3/14/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Question: how much will you be willing to spend for basic BMS
which only protects your cells from overcharge and keeps them fairly
in balance, but nothing else?
It should allow you to plug in your EV for charge and forget it,
but no fancy displays, data collection, downloads etc. Indication
is minimal, like one or two "idiot light" LEDs marked
"Attention needed" or "Alarm" or similar.
I'd probably go with a minimalist system for $500 - but it would AT LEAST
have to allow the LED's to be remote so I don't have to open the battery
pack to see them.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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On 4 Apr 2003 at 10:26, Seth Dallob wrote:
> What is this groups opinions on the performance and reliability of
> Solectria Force sedans?
Conservatively designed and quite reliable thanks to components operated
below their max ratings. Performance is leisurely but adequate for most
people. They are no longer made.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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Good grief. We've gone round and round and round this post more times than
I can count. People seem to take positions and dig in their heels. Many
people seem to mainly trust their intuition, which is one reason that the
automakers continue to sell huge numbers of SUVs.
We can make some general predictions of accident outcome based on damage and
injury statistics, but many people will refuse to give up their intuitive
beliefs. Others will say that for some reason those statistics don't apply
to them. There's really nothing we can do to convince those people.
Every accident is an individual event. There are thousands of variables in
addition to the relative weight of the vehicles that determine the outcome.
Many of them are out of our control, so there's a normal human desire to try
to manage the factors that we ^can^ control. Even though relative weight
and size are only two of those factors, they're the most obvious (and
advertising exploits that). Because of this, in many people's minds they
trump all the rest of the factors. They shouldn't.
I'll admit, I'm not happy about sharing the road with Expeditions and
Suburbans (Dave Barry calls them "Subdivisions") and Hummers. I feel
threatened by their bulk too. But in view of their incontrovertible damage
to the environment and substantial use of resources, I can't justify driving
one on a daily basis just to "compete."
Besides, I despise driving large vehicles, and rent or borrow one only when
necessary. I hate their lumbering awkwardness, and can't stand the
isolation from the road. There's just too much metallic flab around me when
I'm driving one. I like driving a nimble, responsive vehicle -- not
necessarily fast, just nimble -- one that lets me stay closely connected
with the road and my surroundings.
And I love the quiet smoothness of a small EV. One of the nice things about
EVs is that there's no engine vibration to distract you from the road, very
little noise to blot out your surroundings.
But that's me. Everybody has to decide for himself -- small EV? Large EV?
Pseudo-hybrid? Small gas car? Diesel? SUV? Hummer? Beyond any intrinsic
safety factors, what vehicle can ^you^ drive safely?
Whatever you decide, all I ask is that you make the decision rationally, not
emotionally. Your intuition is not always reliable. Use your reason.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
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Damn that internal resistance! Things will get pretty hot at the maximum
current output. But, the spec sheet for the PC2500 says they will deliver
625A for 5 seconds. A cooling system would be a definite plus. Thanks for
your insights. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
> I doubt 56lbs of caps would push a motorcycle to 120 mph. I think you
> will need 30kW (kJ/sec) or more at that speed to overcome air drag. This
> is based completely on the performance of ~45 hp motorcycles, so take it
> with a tablespoon of salt. Or a kilo With only 300kJ available, I don't
> think it will get there, as there will be voltage left to push to a high
> speed. At 56 lbs, I would guess at 100-140V max, and ~48V-70V at the
> end. At a 400A DC limit at which point, the ESR of the cap starts to
> rear its ugly head, you are in the 20-30kW range.
>
> One dirty secret about caps like this is that the current rating is
> sometimes defined as when cap internal heating = power out at minimum
> voltage.
>
> If you are talking about the BCAP0010 for example, then at contactor
> bypass, the DC ESR is the 30-40milliohm, for 56 lbs of caps. My 6.7"
> golf cart motor has an armature resistance of ~50 milliohms. You can
> really only get into contactor bypass when the voltage drops, but for
> the last third of the run or so, the caps burn a significant amount of
> power as heat. If/when you are bucking the voltage for the first part of
> the run, the ESR doesn't hurt as bad.
>
> For fun, 600A (BCP0010 max rated current) squared times 56 caps times
> 0.0007 ohms is ~14kW. That's also 600A at about 24V, so you wouldn't
> take these caps that low (half a volt or so), so as to have heating
> equal power out. But you might be able to come close to that with the
> older Maxwell PC2500 at 1 milliohm.
>
>
>
> Seth
>
> Richard Furniss wrote:
> >
> > Mark Thomasson wrote,
> >
> > >Is this possible? Did I screw up the calculations?
> >
> > We will see in three weeks. This is part of the "Wicked Watts"
announcement
> > that I sent out.
> >
> > "Brigham Young University (BYU) will be there with a EV-1, factory motor
> > with there custom built controller running on super capacitors and a pit
> > crew of 15 engineering students, make your travel plans now this is a
must
> > see
> > EVent."
> >
> > Let us know if you are planning on coming to the NEDRA EVent and make
sure
> > you stop by and say Hi.
> >
> > www.lasvegasev.com
> > Richard Furniss
> > Las Vegas, NV
> > 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> > 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> > 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> > Board Member, www.lveva.org
> > Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:58 AM
> > Subject: Ultra/Super capacitors
> >
> > The new super capacitors have amazing energy storage capacity compared
to
> > older capacitor technology. Would they have any usefulness in battery
only
> > EV designs?
> >
> > Super capacitors are a long way from replacing chemical batteries
entirely
> > because of cost and low energy density. They are attractive for hybrid
> > designs because they are light and can dump most of their stored energy
> > quickly and efficiently (high power density).
> >
> > How about a capacitor powered dragster? My rough calculations indicate
that
> > 56 pounds of ultra capacitors (300 kjoules of energy) could push a 300
pound
> > motorcycle and rider to 120 mph. This assumes 80% drive train
efficiency
> > and 20% energy lost due to wind drag. Remember that capacitor stored
> > energy =.5 * C * V**2. When your capacitor bank's voltage has dropped
to
> > 45%, you have used 80% of the stored energy.
> >
> > 56 pounds of Maxwell ultracapacitors costs $3500 plus shipping.
> >
> > Is this possible? Did I screw up the calculations?
> >
> > See this link for capacitor information:
> > http://www.maxwell.com/
> >
> > Thanks, Mark T.
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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