EV Digest 2705
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Replacing batteries: First drive
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Driving in Air Conditioned Comfort
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Driving in Air Conditioned Comfort
by GreenVW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Replacing batteries: First drive
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) List'rs at Tour de Sol ...
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Wannabe EV-er Acquires Electric Mazda 323
by Lesley Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Driving in Air Conditioned Comfort
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Wannabe EV-er Acquires Electric Mazda 323
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Where did the Yahoo Archive Go?
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Optima group 31 discharge curves
by "EV'r up LATE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: electrical fields and health concerns
by Andrew Wysotski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) FYI Rabbit original gas inlet to be Avcon with Ford Think hatch.
by Danny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Where did the Yahoo Archive Go?
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Tour de Sol drop-in
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Where did the Yahoo Archive Go?
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Stretch Tango
by Rick Woodbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Stretch Tango
by Matthew Muelver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) OT: SUV bashing, was Re: Tango accidents...
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This would seem to be the most obvious way to use them. Several companies
do sell large capacitors that are connected in parallel to the starting
battery to enhance the starting systems of large diesel engines.
www.koldban.com offers a 1000 F capacitor for this purpose. One possible
problem with this approach for EVs is that batteries are somewhat constant
voltage devices, while capacitor voltage drops linearly with charge (in
coulombs). With the capacitor in parallel with the battery pack, a 10% drop
in system voltage will only extract 19% of the stored energy in the
capacitor bank. This seems like a lot of farads sitting there unutilized.
A separate system to control the capacitor bank also seems extravagant.
Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Ultra/Super capacitors
> How about combining Super Caps and Li-Ion batteries? Run them in parallel
> and the caps would give you the fast power draw to get the HP you desire
> and the Li-Ion would provide the longer lasting storage to make the run
home.
>
> I am sure it isn't as simple as hooking up a few wires, or it would be
part
> of many battery designs.
>
> At 11:46 PM 4/3/2003, you wrote:
>
> > A data point: The KillaCycle uses about 700 W-hr on a run down
> > the strip and back on the return road. It does not draw much on the 1/2
> > mile return road going 20 MPH, but I'm not sure exactly how much. I'd
> > guess 150 W-hrs. This leaves about 500 to 600 W-hrs for the 1/4 mile run
> > itself.
> >
> > The peak HP is a bit less than 300.
> >
> > Super caps that I have evaluated on paper have no trouble
putting
> > out 300 HP, but have difficulty with the required 700 W-hr.
> >
> > We shall see how the latest generation of super caps pans out.
> > Who knows until they try it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> > \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >=(___)=
> > U
> >Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the order has been placed, and 52 Hawker Genesis 26ah batteries are
due to arrive at the house next week.
Before I drop them into the Prizm, I want to make sure that all of them are
starting at the same level of charge. The question is how best do I do this?
Do I take voltage mesurments of all batteries, then charge the ones that are
out of spec? By how much (.1 volts, .5 volts, etc)
Do I charge them one at a time with my Sears 12 v charger (It's got an AGM
mode, and a 2 amp mode, but when I charge old batteries they fly up to 14
volts and it stops within a few mins).
Do I put them in parallel strings and charge the string? How long can a
string be? 2 batteries? 5? 10? 25?
Any comments or help would be appreciated. I'd like to get this pack off to
a good start.
Thanks!
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Once I get the 50 Hawker AGM batteries replaced in the Prizm, the next
question is "now what do I do?"
Do I plug it into the charger and let them "top off"?
Do I plug in the MagneCharger and let it do a bulk charge?
Or should I drive it first? If so, how much and how far? Then how
aggressively should I charge the pack?
The onboard charger charges at 2 amp hours. The MagneCharger can do it at 20
amp hours. The pack size is 52 amp hours (two strings of 26 amp hours)
How should I drive the car for the first couple of cycles? Deep discharges
or shallow ones? Hard accels or gentle driving?
And how long before I take it on a longer drive, say perhaps the Tour de
Sol? How long before I can take the car to an EV drag race and really try it
out?
Looking to get this pack off to a nice start.
Thanks!
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You're using your compressor as a braking system? I love it! Regen braking
for the masses. ;-)
Do you engage the compressor with the brake switch, or with a seperate
manual switch?
----- Original Message -----
From: "GreenVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 8:42 AM
Subject: Driving in Air Conditioned Comfort
> The temperature was in the low to mid 80's, in Florida yesterday. Hotter
> sitting in stop and go traffic. The heat gave me a good opportunity to
try
> out my A/C. The compressor is only engaged when the throttle is
disengaged.
> No battery pack power is used to rotate the compressor, it is powered
solely
> by the energy that would normally be lost as brake heat. The blower fan
and
> condensor fan are driven by the accessory battery. The A/C provided
> consistent 40-45 degree air with no impact on acceleration or range. City
> traffic provided plenty of red lights/obnoxious drivers, now known as
> Compressor Engagement Opportunities. The compressor also engages when I
> depress the clutch to upshift, not only providing a CEO but also provides
a
> smoother upshift (no longer lunges forward) as I am using the stock
> flywheel. The A/C doesn't do much on the highway stretches, but thats
what
> the Safari Windshields are for.
>
> Ben
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
comments inserted...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 4:28 PM
Subject: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
> Do I take voltage mesurments of all batteries, then charge the ones that
are
> out of spec? By how much (.1 volts, .5 volts, etc)
Don't bother with new batteries. Definately do it with used batteries.
> Do I charge them one at a time with my Sears 12 v charger (It's got an AGM
> mode, and a 2 amp mode, but when I charge old batteries they fly up to 14
> volts and it stops within a few mins).
It takes a long time but will get you there. Preferable if you don't have
very many battery interconnects.
> Do I put them in parallel strings and charge the string? How long can a
> string be? 2 batteries? 5? 10? 25?
The string length can be any length as long as you have enough
interconnects. Charge them until the charger says it is finished at about 14
volts.
Be sure you have the same length of wire between all the batteries as shown
below. That way the wire resistance becomes irrelevant.
(View with fixed width font)
+---(+BATTERY-)---+----------+
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| | |
+---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
| |
+---------------(+CHARGER-)--+
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
4/5/03 9:24 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> You're using your compressor as a braking system? I love it! Regen braking
> for the masses. ;-)
>
> Do you engage the compressor with the brake switch, or with a seperate
> manual switch?
Currently using a microswitch w/relay on the potbox but plan on using a
"line loc" style switch on the gear shift lever for more control.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GreenVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 8:42 AM
> Subject: Driving in Air Conditioned Comfort
>
>
>> The temperature was in the low to mid 80's, in Florida yesterday. Hotter
>> sitting in stop and go traffic. The heat gave me a good opportunity to
> try
>> out my A/C. The compressor is only engaged when the throttle is
> disengaged.
>> No battery pack power is used to rotate the compressor, it is powered
> solely
>> by the energy that would normally be lost as brake heat. The blower fan
> and
>> condensor fan are driven by the accessory battery. The A/C provided
>> consistent 40-45 degree air with no impact on acceleration or range. City
>> traffic provided plenty of red lights/obnoxious drivers, now known as
>> Compressor Engagement Opportunities. The compressor also engages when I
>> depress the clutch to upshift, not only providing a CEO but also provides
> a
>> smoother upshift (no longer lunges forward) as I am using the stock
>> flywheel. The A/C doesn't do much on the highway stretches, but thats
> what
>> the Safari Windshields are for.
>>
>> Ben
>>> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
> comments inserted...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 4:28 PM
> Subject: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
>
>
> > Do I take voltage mesurments of all batteries, then charge the ones that
> are
> > out of spec? By how much (.1 volts, .5 volts, etc)
>
> Don't bother with new batteries. Definately do it with used batteries.
>
> > Do I charge them one at a time with my Sears 12 v charger (It's got an
AGM
> > mode, and a 2 amp mode, but when I charge old batteries they fly up to
14
> > volts and it stops within a few mins).
>
> It takes a long time but will get you there. Preferable if you don't have
> very many battery interconnects.
>
> > Do I put them in parallel strings and charge the string? How long can a
> > string be? 2 batteries? 5? 10? 25?
>
> The string length can be any length as long as you have enough
> interconnects. Charge them until the charger says it is finished at about
14
> volts.
>
> Be sure you have the same length of wire between all the batteries as
shown
> below. That way the wire resistance becomes irrelevant.
>
> (View with fixed width font)
>
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+----------+
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | | |
> +---(+BATTERY-)---+ |
> | |
> +---------------(+CHARGER-)--+
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Don't bother with new batteries. Definately do it with used batteries.
Mmm... These batteries are a few months old from Hawker land, and have
basically been load-tested. I'll take a look at all the voltages when they
arrive.
> It takes a long time but will get you there. Preferable if you don't have
> very many battery interconnects.
Battery interconnects?
> The string length can be any length as long as you have enough
> interconnects. Charge them until the charger says it is finished at about
14
> volts.
Ok, so basically I can put 25 of them in parallel with 50 jumper wires and
go. I thought there was something not-good about putting lots of batteries
in a parallel string. Or mabye it was a lot of series-parallel strings.
Thanks for the info.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, you need 48 interconnects.
As long as the charger is on, they can be in parallel.
Once you turn the charger off, then you need to disconnect them in case one
of them shorts a cell.
It is OK to charge in parallel and OK to discharge in parallel. You just
don't want them to sit in standby for extended periods being strapped
together in parallel.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Replacing batteries: Topping them all off
> > Don't bother with new batteries. Definately do it with used batteries.
>
> Mmm... These batteries are a few months old from Hawker land, and have
> basically been load-tested. I'll take a look at all the voltages when they
> arrive.
>
> > It takes a long time but will get you there. Preferable if you don't
have
> > very many battery interconnects.
>
> Battery interconnects?
>
> > The string length can be any length as long as you have enough
> > interconnects. Charge them until the charger says it is finished at
about
> 14
> > volts.
>
> Ok, so basically I can put 25 of them in parallel with 50 jumper wires and
> go. I thought there was something not-good about putting lots of batteries
> in a parallel string. Or mabye it was a lot of series-parallel strings.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> Well, the order has been placed, and 52 Hawker Genesis 26ah batteries
> are due to arrive at the house next week. Before I drop them into the
> Prizm, I want to make sure that all of them are starting at the same
> level of charge. The question is how best do I do this?
Measure their initial no-load voltage. They should all be 13v +/-0.05v.
If they are, you don't need to do anything at all for at least a few
months.
If you *want* to, and have the time, you can run individual capacity
tests to sort out any weak ones. If bad enough, you can return them
under warranty.
If you are going to let them sit for more than a few months, you can
connect them all in parallel and charge them with a "float" type
charger. Basically, this would put about 13.5v on them until the current
stops falling. But there is nothing to be gained by leaving them on a
float voltage charger indefinitely.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Once I get the 50 Hawker AGM batteries replaced in the Prizm, the next
> question is "now what do I do?"
>
> Do I plug it into the charger and let them "top off"?
> Do I plug in the MagneCharger and let it do a bulk charge?
It's OK to hook up the charger before you go for a drive, just to top it
off and so you can watch what the charger does. If the pack is new, it
should not need a bulk charge. If the Magnecharge is set up right, it
won't do it; it may start at a high current, but should almost
immediately cut back to a low finishing current and shut off.
> The onboard charger charges at 2 amp hours. The MagneCharger can do
> it at 20 amp hours.
Do you mean "2 amps" and "20 amps"? A 2 amp charger is pitifully small.
> How should I drive the car for the first couple of cycles? Deep
> discharges or shallow ones? Hard accels or gentle driving?
Definitely shallow discharges, and low currents. The batteries will take
a few dozen cycles to get broken in and reach full capacity.
What do you have for a balancing and monitoring system? The odds are
that out of 50 batteries you are likely to have 1 or 2 weak ones. Do you
have a system so you can spot them before they drag down the whole pack?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I request that any EV List'r that is attending the
Tour de Sol EVent to please check for the Heibao
EV and report back to the EV List of your experience.
If you get the chance, I ask that you take pictures,
and sit in the vehicle to let us know the touch and
feel of the EV.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some of you may recall that I have been wanting an EV for over a year
now, and have been collecting information and ideas for a conversion
without really knowing how or where to start. More likely, you will
remember that I found an already-converted Mazda 323 on the TradeMe
web site and asked the list for advice about it. The general consensus
seemed to be that it looked like a good deal. (Garry thought it was too
expensive but was outweighed by other opinions.) Over the course of
the next week or so I exchanged a few phone calls and emails with Ross
(the seller) and decided I definitely wanted it, but I wanted to make sure I
knew what I was getting, so the next weekend I wriggled out of my usual
commitments and went up to Auckland to have a look.
It's a 9-hour trip for someone who drives like I do (mostly within the
speed limit, and stopping for a break from time to time) so I went half-way
on the Friday night and stayed at a backpacker place (in Turangi, for
those few who know the geography). An early-ish start in the morning
meant that I hit Auckland in the early afternoon, with plenty of time to de-
mesmerize from the road and settle in where I was staying with friends
Matthew and BJ.
Then BJ and I went over to Ross's place to check out the Mazda. Sure
enough, there it was, just like in the photos Ross had sent me. The 1983
Mazda body appeared to be free of any major rust, with just a few specks
that will need attention. The door locks were pretty tired, but that's to be
expected of 20-year-old car door locks. One door looked like it was full
of bog, another had a small but noticeable dent - oh well, big deal, it
looks its age. I did all the rest of the tyre-kicking stuff, and then sat in the
drivers' seat. Problem! The seat belt isn't quite long enough to go
around me. Well, too bad. Normally there's no way I would drive any
further than across the street without a seat belt, but I wasn't going to can
out of this test drive after having driven all the way from Wellington. I just
had to hope that any cops I might encounter would be the understanding
type.
I asked Ross to do the first bit of driving since I had never been in an EV
before, so he took it out of the garage, up the street, around the cul-de-
sac and back. Then it was my turn.
This was hardly an ideal test drive - I didn't know the neighbourhood, I
had never driven an EV, and on a Saturday afternoon in a major suburb
the traffic was fairly busy. Nevertheless I coped, with Ross giving
navigational directions and useful advice like "change up", "change
down", "don't use the clutch". We went up the steepest hill within range,
which was not really steep enough compared with the hills around where
I live. I wasn't expecting a lot in the way of performance given that the
controller is a 1221C and we had three people in the car, and sure
enough it was on the slow side. We went on the motorway, where the
speed limit is 100km/h. It got up to the speed limit okay, but didn't feel at
all stable. It was fine at 80km/h.
So, not the world's best EV. No e-meter, no rev counter, an ammeter that
goes off the scale above 200A, and a voltmeter that doesn't work. A 96V
pack with a "third world" charger and an undersized controller. So I
agreed to buy it. Beggars can't be choosers, and at worst I will get some
useful experience and some parts I can use in a fresh conversion. Ross
agreed to get it a new Warrant of Fitness, and I gave him a 10% deposit.
That pretty much wrapped up the day. I spent the evening with BJ and
Matthew watching videos (Monsoon Wedding and some Father Ted
episodes) then I got up early the next day (early for me, that it) and drove
home.
Ross needed a couple of weeks to swap batteries around so that I would
have the best of the ones he had currently available, and also to get the
new WOF. When he took it for the WOF, it was found that one of the
tyres had gone out of round, which might account for part of the stability
problem, and he found a second-hand tyre to replace it.
This time last week, I got an email from Ross to say the car was ready to
come down to Wellington, along with four spare batteries and all the
paperwork. I lined up a transport company and explained about the car
being electric and how it's a bit different to drive, and they recommended
to get it brought down overnight by their night driver, because "he's done
one of those before". So Ross delivered it to the transport company, it
arrived safely and I picked it up on Wednesday. No hassles. I drove it
home, hoping like hell I wasn't pushing it too hard on the last uphill bit at
what ought to be the end of its range. I charged it up, and haven't driven
it anywhere since. The seat belt guy is coming tomorrow to put a longer
belt in, and I still have to find insurance for it.
So I now own an EV that needs some work. First thing to spend money
on will be an e-meter, since I *really* need to know how much e-juice I
have and how much it takes to get up the various hills. I'm also a little
worried about how the controller will cope with the hills, after reading
Lawrence's sad story. Just how steep is that hill of yours, Lawrence?
The Electric Mazda 323 will be added to the EV Album in due course, of
course.
--
Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
LRW at clear.net.nz
"Do you like cat?"
"Yes, I quite like cats."
"Leg or breast?"
Neverwhere, by Neil Gaiman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
another EV in Florida ,that's great , I just got the AC running on my Mazda
truck and have a switch for the compresser .I was using it the other day
the same way. The blower is on another switch so I can leave it on all the
time, and with compresser comming on just some of the time (when braking)
it still blow cold most of the time. Funny I was thinking of hooking it up
the same way. I'm having a EV car rally on sat, May 3 in Fort Pierce . any
chance you can come . Steve Clunn 772-465-1982
----- Original Message -----
From: "GreenVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 9:42 AM
Subject: Driving in Air Conditioned Comfort
> The temperature was in the low to mid 80's, in Florida yesterday. Hotter
> sitting in stop and go traffic. The heat gave me a good opportunity to
try
> out my A/C. The compressor is only engaged when the throttle is
disengaged.
> No battery pack power is used to rotate the compressor, it is powered
solely
> by the energy that would normally be lost as brake heat. The blower fan
and
> condensor fan are driven by the accessory battery. The A/C provided
> consistent 40-45 degree air with no impact on acceleration or range. City
> traffic provided plenty of red lights/obnoxious drivers, now known as
> Compressor Engagement Opportunities. The compressor also engages when I
> depress the clutch to upshift, not only providing a CEO but also provides
a
> smoother upshift (no longer lunges forward) as I am using the stock
> flywheel. The A/C doesn't do much on the highway stretches, but thats
what
> the Safari Windshields are for.
>
> Ben
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lesley Walker wrote:
> So, not the world's best EV. No e-meter, no rev counter, an ammeter
> that goes off the scale above 200A, and a voltmeter that doesn't
> work. A 96V pack with a "third world" charger and an undersized
> controller. So I agreed to buy it.
Congratulations! Do you have that EV grin yet? :-)
> one of the tyres had gone out of round, which might account for part
> of the stability problem.
Possibly. More likely, the battery weight is high and has affected the
front/rear weight distribution, and it needs wheel alignment and maybe
bigger tires and other suspension work to carry the load.
> First thing to spend money on will be an e-meter...
That (or something like it) is a good investment. When it is installed,
I'd move your present ammeter to the motor so you can read motor
current. Then when climbing hills, you can shift to keep motor current
low to avoid burning it up. If this meter has an external shunt, you can
change it to a 500amp shunt to get a more useful full-scale current.
> The Electric Mazda 323 will be added to the EV Album in due course, of
> course.
Great! We'll be looking for it.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Did I miss something? Did someone delete the Yahoo archive? When I tried
to go to the EVDL archive on Yahoo, at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evlist/
All I get is a message "There is no group called evlist."
What happened? Did we loose all the archives? First the Crest archive,
now this. What is going on?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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Looked long and hard on the web to no avail. Does anyone on the list have
the curves for the yellowtop?
Thanks!
Bryan
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At 03:23 PM 4/4/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>I would like to know more about this street in Toronto and I think others
>on this list would to. Give us references if you can such as books,
>government reports, newspaper stories, web sites, etc. What's the
>name of the street?
I'm not sure of the exact spelling, but it sounds like "Ronchesvale" and is a main
street in the west end. Doctors were moving into the area and opening up practices,
it was so bad. I don't have government reports or anything like that.
>Tom Shay
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrew Wysotski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:41 PM
>Subject: Re: electrical fields and health concerns
>
>
>> Thanks, that's the general response from another person who privately
>emailed me. It's a big concern to many. Although we are exposed to many
>electrical fields like you mentioned, I guess it's like radiation, where the
>accumulative effect is the concern. The less exposure, the less your body
>has to deal with. I know in Toronto there is a street with a high degree of
>power lines and street cars wires and people who live on that street are
>amongst the sickest in the city. Cancer is unusually high and all people
>can put it down to is the power lines. On the other hand gas burning cars
>are posing a bigger health threat to all of us.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Andrew
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The cover on the Ford Think Avcon inlet has a plastic spring loaded
black plastic cover.
Its mounted with 2 threaded machine screws hidden under a plastic
locking cap right next to the hinge.
The snapping action provides a decent seal on the Think.
I have been pondering the best way to create a door for the AVcon inlet
once its installed on my Rabbit gas inlet and this seems like a nice
simple way to achieve this. The dealer can get these covers still so now
may be a good time before Ford completely stops parts support on the
Thinks.
This is also may be of use to other home EV conversions if they can
leverage an AVcon infrastructure as I can in my area.
I will probably use a welder and machinist to help me with mounting the
AVcon fixture into the Rabbit.
Danny...
The AVcon part I think should work is this:
2IF040-010 about $175.00
Its orderable as I checked last week.
>From AVcon Corp. @ 1-877-423-8725 or 1-800-433-7642
Level 2, 40 amp w/emulator*
Emulators provide the pilot function to turn on
the public and private "PCS" Power Control
Supply Boxes. This is needed for the home or
enthusiast makers of EVs.
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Mike,
There are other SJSU EV List archives listed on
http://geocities.com/ev_list/
The other archives are in digest mode.
The one you mentioned was the one I set up. My archive
received individual POSTs. This made it easy to read
and get your EV List fix from any internet accessible
browser (not only for me, but others too). Some people
wanted to be subscribed to use the features of the
group (I made sure all subscribers knew that they were
not to POST on the group).
But as most groups on yahoo, spammers found a way to
spoil it for everyone. Also, some newbies still POSTed
on the group and then complained.
Too many complaints welled up to the point where I had to
take action. I sent out a message to the subscribed users
advising them I was taking action.
I changed the address of the group to not only block
spammers, but the naming scheme better describes the
purpose of the group.
I only lost a few POSTs but the group is receiving POSTs
again (knock on keyboard). The new url is
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList_Archive/messages
I am still monitoring this group for more needed action.
Sadly, if the the spammers are still able to hack in, I
will have to take severe action.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
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Speaking of the Tour de Sol, I was wondering how one might just drop by with
their EV to demo it. By that time the Prizm's pack should be broken in, and
if I can get a MagneCharger out there I can drive it down from Baltimore.
However I don't want to "exhibit" and pay a lot of money for the privledge.
Last year I don't recall seeing any factory conversions; thought it might
be nice.
Thoughts? Do they have induction charging at the TDS? 220/30 amp service so
I could bring my charger?
Chris
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I only lost a few POSTs but the group is receiving POSTs
again (knock on keyboard). The new url is
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList_Archive/messages
I am still monitoring this group for more needed action.
Sadly, if the the spammers are still able to hack in, I
will have to take severe action.
I think you can set the archive to be publicly accessible, but
posting to require subscription. I also think you can set
subscription to require approval by the ListGhawd. If so, you could
set the approval mails to go to a spamtrap address to be immediately
deleted. Then no one can subscribe, so they cannot post, yet they can
see the archive.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
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> How about combining Super Caps and Li-Ion batteries? Run them in parallel
> and the caps would give you the fast power draw to get the HP you desire
> and the Li-Ion would provide the longer lasting storage to make the run
home.
>
> I am sure it isn't as simple as hooking up a few wires, or it would be
part
> of many battery designs.
>
Do the math and you will discover that in a drag race, this make
the pack heavier, not lighter for a given amount of peak power at the end
of the run and energy storage needed to complete the race.
If the peak power were needed at the beginning of the race,
(instead of at the end,) perhaps a combo pack would offer some help, but
the reality is, you need the peak at the end of the race.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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Bruce Tucker wrote:
> Or how about a 'stretch' 3 seat version? It still keeps the same narrow
> profile, but allows two adults and one child to ride.
That should be a great product. We even kid around with the longer versions
seating 4 or more people--Slinky? Anaconda? I think it's a good idea because
is still doubles lane capacity. You have to sacrifice parking perpendicular
to the curb, of course, when you go beyond 2 passengers.
Rick Woodbury Phone: (509) 624-0762
President, Commuter Cars Corporation Toll-free: (800) 468-0944
Doubling the capacity of freeways Fax: (509) 624-1466
Quadrupling the capacity of parking Cellular: (509) 979-1815
Zero to 60 in under 4 seconds
715 E. Sprague Ave., Suite 114 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Spokane, WA 99202 Web: http://www.commutercars.com
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On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at 06:32 PM, Rick Woodbury wrote:
That should be a great product. We even kid around with the longer
versions
seating 4 or more people--Slinky? Anaconda? I think it's a good idea
because
is still doubles lane capacity. You have to sacrifice parking
perpendicular
to the curb, of course, when you go beyond 2 passengers.
Rick, as the length increases doesn't the turning radius increase as
well? Seems to me that would be detrimental to a stretched Tango's
handling characteristics. If you did stretch it, would it get another
door? How would lengthening affect the structural integrity of the
frame in a side impact collision?
I'm extremely intrigued by the Tango, and would love to be able to own
one. I was just going through the web site again and a question popped
up though. I'm looking at the picture that Eli Meyer took while
sitting in the back seat and it looks very cramped. Does the front
seat slide forward for access? Would I be able to fit a rear-facing
infant seat in there? How does the four-point Sparco harness work with
child seats? I'm assuming that there's still a traditional lap belt,
that its just like a 5-point with no crotch strap.
Oh well, I'm just dreamin' anyway. I'm off to work some more on my
electric go-kart!
Later,
Matt
--
Honda Insight '01 Monte Carlo Blue
Honda Valkyrie Interstate '99 Forest Green
Honda CR-V '98 Jet Black
Apple Dual 1GHz PowerMac G4
Apple iBook 12.1" 800MHz
Kyocera 7135 Smartphone on Verizon
Custom Audio Adapters! Use standard stereo headphones on your 7135!
<http://www.geocities.com/nokmout/adapter.html>
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David and others,
I liked your SUV comments, and wanted to share a letter to the editor that
printed on 02-13-03. As it turns out, both local papers have since done a
story on my electric vehicle conversions!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 16 year-old son!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 14:34:41 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tango accidents (Was: Corbin sparrow)
>
<snip>
>
>I'll admit, I'm not happy about sharing the road with Expeditions and
>Suburbans (Dave Barry calls them "Subdivisions") and Hummers. I feel
>threatened by their bulk too. But in view of their incontrovertible damage
>to the environment and substantial use of resources, I can't justify driving
>one on a daily basis just to "compete."
>
>Besides, I despise driving large vehicles, and rent or borrow one only when
>necessary. I hate their lumbering awkwardness, and can't stand the
>isolation from the road. There's just too much metallic flab around me when
>I'm driving one. I like driving a nimble, responsive vehicle -- not
>necessarily fast, just nimble -- one that lets me stay closely connected
>with the road and my surroundings.
>
<snip>
Longish Letter to the editor
The Old Lyons Recorder
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Should we bash SUV's, protest the proposed Iraqi war, or both?
The following is in response to Gary Moore's "The Occasional Curmudgeon" of
January 30th (at the bottom of this e-mail). I'll introduce myself first,
not to Gary, whom I've known for a number of years, but to others that
don't know me. I'm a progressive redneck, that is, I was born and raised a
redneck, but later, after having kids, I discovered an environment to
protect and hand down to them. And wanting to leave my kids something other
than landfills, global warming, and polluted air, I've became somewhat
progressive since their birth. Now, I'm not a tree-huger, or an
earth-muffin, so don't try and put me in a box as you read this response.
Gary, Gary, Gary, it didn't take long for you to ruffle MY feathers, so
come down off your high horse (get down out of your gas guzzling SUV) and
let's discuss what you choose to drive. First of all, I support the Detroit
Project that you mentioned, because it isn't much of a stretch to say that
driving an SUV supports terrorism. Over 50% of our oil is imported from
other countries. This, of course, includes Arab countries like Saudi
Arabia. The majority of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi's. Now, I'm not
saying that their country supported them, but prior to 9/11, our
intelligence agencies were instructed to look the other way if Saudi's were
involved in anything in this country. Hmmm, I wonder if that has to do with
Saudi oil! Another point about Saudi Arabia, is that it's a monarchy, and
the majority of the people live in poverty. If you lived in poverty while
your monarchy was getting vast amounts of oil revenue from the U.S., not to
mention the U.S. Military occupying your soil since the Gulf War, would you
be a little upset? And when it comes to the U.S. thirst for oil and control
of it, the government and military have been known to support dictators,
and if they turn on us, we just bomb them and then starve them through
sanctions. Sound familiar? At least 500,000 Iraqi civilians (mostly woman
and children) have died since the Gulf War ended, due to U.S. imposed
sanctions. Hmmm, kind of makes me wonder who is terrorizing whom, but I
digress. I won't debate you on the "What would Jesus drive?" campaign,
because I agree he wouldn't drive, not because of traffic, but because
using fossil fuel is destroying God's creation! I'll admit, I once owned a
big SUV for a year, but I only put 3000 miles on it by pulling a trailer
and hauling things in it. I know that SUV's have a purpose, but it's not
commuting to work, hauling kids to soccer practice, or errands to the
convenience store. If we stop wasting oil in SUV's, then people won't have
to die for it, and maybe there would be some left for our kids to make
lightweight vehicle stuff out of, or not.
My second point is, you need to read the recently published book, which the
Detroit Project mentions, called "High And Mighty, SUV: The World's Most
Dangerous Vehicles And How They Got That Way", by Keith Bradsher. It has
statistics showing that SUV's ARE more dangerous to their occupants, and
not just the occupants of the vehicles they hit. You sight the roll-over
problem, which isn't supposed, it's the main reason they are dangerous to
their occupants. For example, let's look at a Ford Excessive or Chevy
Snobbier. If you take a three-ton truck chassis that already has a high
center of gravity, soften the suspension so the soccer moms don't get their
kidney's beat to death, and then try swerving around something at highway
speeds, there is a very good chance you are going to loose control and
roll-over! And regardless of what you're driving, it's your head impacting
something, or your organs being abruptly stopped, that usually kills you,
which in a roll-over, is pretty much guaranteed. SUV's don't have crumple
zones like an automobile, which help absorb the impact in a crash. Yes,
your SUV will suffer less damage, which means it is very unforgiving to
humans and will kill not just the people you hit, but "you and your loved
ones"! And your self-defense commit makes me nauseous. The SUV craze is
like the nuclear arms race, except the people with their finger on the
button (hand on the steering wheel) aren't trained to operate the
equipment, including you! While driving a three ton weapon around, it only
takes one small distraction, and somebody dies. Is mobility really that
important? Do you think that your life is more important than someone in a
car, who can't afford a weapon with leather seats? Maybe the car driver
would prefer not to waste resources driving around in a living room. After
all, some people have actually made the connection between the Front Range
Brown Cloud and transportation choices.
And lastly, I really take exception to your comment about people from
Boulder. You see, although I've only been in Lyons for 25 years now, I was
born and raised in Boulder. However, my Boulder, like Lyons when I moved
here, was a different place. People weren't in such a big hurry. People
cared about each other's well being. People didn't drive SUV's for a false
sense of protecting themselves and there loved ones, and the hell with
everyone else! And yes, only woman wore makeup. Boulder was half the size
that it is now, which means there was a lot less traffic. And because there
was so little traffic and its associated air pollution, you could actually
see the Flatirons. Imagine that, air so clean, it was fit to breath. If
anyone is wondering what I drive, I converted a light-duty pickup from gas
to pure electric (not a hybrid), and I also have a pure electric car. Does
this make me a high-tech redneck? Anyway, when I need to haul something
that is either too big and/or heavy for the bed of the electric truck, I
use either a full-sized pickup bed trailer, or a car trailer. After all,
why drive an SUV or 1/2 ton pickup around empty 99% of the time, just to
have the ability to haul something or pull a trailer 1% of the time. If I
need to go farther than the range of the electric truck, I also have a
light-duty gas truck, which pulls 6000 pounds of trailer just fine. Please
think about what I've said, as lives depend on "our" actions and
life-styles.
Dave Hawkins
Lyons, CO
The Occasional Curmudgeon
By Gary Moore
Have you heard of The Detroit Project? It's an organization trying to
convince people that those who drive sport utility vehicles (SUVs) support
terrorism through gas purchases. There are also those trying to convince us
that Jesus wouldn't be driving an SUV, should he have had the opportunity.
What are they thinking? I can't imagine Jesus driving anything in today's
traffic. Talk about a way for other cheeks to remain unturned (Matthew
5.38-41)!
But, back to the Detroit Project. The thread of "thought" there suggests
that SUV owners buy lots of gas, thereby making energy company CEOs richer,
and that the rest of the money is eventually siphoned through "those"
countries producing oil and terrorism. I wonder if "those" countries also
include the oil producing states like Texas, Montana, New Mexico, Utah, and
Wyoming (although, Wyoming might actually be another country). I don't know
about you, but my oil and gas comes from Carbon County, Wyoming. So There!
My SUV (there, I've said it) is supposed to be more dangerous than most of
the smaller cars. There are two aspects of the proposed SUV danger: 1)
danger to the SUV driver because SUV's are supposed to be more inherently
dangerous to their occupants because they supposedly roll over more easily
than lower center-of-gravity automobiles, and 2) danger to small vehicles,
and their occupants, in cases of wrecks between the two. My SUV is no more
dangerous to drive than any other vehicle - supposing that I have, as I
have, taken the time to learn how to drive it. And, in cases of wrecks
between large vehicles and small vehicles, the larger vehicle will, most
often, suffer less damage than it's smaller counterpart. That translates to
less damage to me and my loved ones. And, the point to the second criticism
is...? So, it's all a matter of self-defense.
I read somewhere that, at any given time, one of four drivers on the road
is legally impaired (drink, drugs, vision, basic intelligence, etc.).
Simple statistics prove that fifty percent of all drivers are below average
intelligence and have below average driving skills. Many are from Boulder.
And, a whole lot of them are trying to multi-task; driving poorly, talking
on their cell phones, drinking designer coffee, putting on make-up (No, I'm
not picking on women. Remember, I said a lot of them are from Boulder, so I
don't have to be gender specific), and have had a poor night's sleep, are
anticipating a bad day at work, or have had a bad day at work. Hmmm, wonder
where I could get a HMMWV?
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