EV Digest 2813
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Batteries
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Anderson connector question
by Chris Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Anderson connector question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Several small smart chargers
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) An open invitation to make the world a better place
by "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car weighing
2000 pounds
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Novice Hookup for 36EV instructions
by "KARLA JACKSONLEVINE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EV comments
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Ampabout
by Lesley Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Batteries
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV comments
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) battery gassing
by "Sell, Ken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Miata Conversion
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Fiero on NiCds
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part three)
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Several small smart chargers
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: New Thunder-sky Li-Ion batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: New Thunder-sky Li-Ion batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: battery gassing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Anderson connector question
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Any feedback on Helios batteries PRO or CON?
by ItalysBadBoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yet another post with battery questions, I'm afraid!
Several weeks ago I posted about how I was considering a VW rabbit
conversion. I'm now quite happy to say that I'm no longer just
dreaming of building an EV, but I have taken the first step: buying a
donor car. Friday night, Seth Murray and I drove deep into the Maine
wilderness to have a look at a Porsche 914 with no engine (how
perfect!), advertised in Uncle Henry's for $1200. Well, we got there
and it was perfect! We ended up towing it home that night (for only
$1000!), Seth with his tow bar and me following as the lights. About
1/3 of the way home a cop decided he didn't much like the fact that we
were towing this thing at night without any form of tail lights or
brake lights, so he made us leave it in a parking lot
overnight...AAAAHHH!! So we left it, and drove back to my house, and
after only about two hours of sleep (but large cups of dark coffee), we
drove back the next morning to pick it up. Phew, still there! The
remainder of the trip to my house was uneventful, and I now have a
Porsche sitting in my driveway!! I'm still pinching myself in
disbelief.
So now that I have this beauty, I'm being forced to rethink my EV
plans. No more 120V pack of T-105's on a raptor 600...if this is a
Porsche, it's gotta have some kick, yet I also would like to be able
make a 25-mile commute to work 2 or 3 days a week (I assume I could
charge it there, and it would have a 9-hour workday). So I need some
battery help.
Performance-wise, I would love a set of 13 group 34 optima YT's and a
Raptor 1200, though Seth thinks I'd get about 25mi max with these. So
then I'm wondering how I could do range-wise with the same number of
75Ah group 31 YT's. How about biting the bullet and switching to a
higher-voltage controller (Z1K) with more batteries?
The third option - to try to use floodies - is almost completely voided
by the fact that the car comes with manual brakes, to say nothing of
the fact that it has a max GVWR of 2690lbs (loaded), and the body
itself weighs around 1400. Not very conducive to another 1400 pounds
of batteries, as far as I can tell. Granted, I've seen Bob Rice's poor
rabbit which still goes, but as a sports car, it should stay somewhat
light.
I suppose it should also be noted that, where I live, there are more
hills than I might like for driving an EV, but I'm learning to drive
efficiently.
Unfortunately, my wallet isn't going to allow me to beta test any of
those 600Ah Lions, so there goes that option...
I'd love to get some advice from anyone with personal experience or a
good understanding of the different batteries. Thanks in advance!
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've seen Anderson SBX350 connectors called out in a number of
designs. But most of those designs are for DC systems that must pull a
good bit more than 350 Amps. Do these connectors do well above rated
current? The reason I ask is that I'm doing an AC system, so battery
current is limited at 288 Amps. I'd like to use 1/0 cable (even that is
probably excessive), but only the SBX175 lists 1/0 as a valid wire
size. Should I go with SBX350 and figure out how to crimp to a 1/0 cable,
or go with SBX175 and run the connector at more than spec?
I won't hold anyone liable for an answer, just looking for some guidance.
Thanks,
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use the 350 amp connector and solder to the pins instead of crimping to
them. The pins can be soldered to any gauge wire.
Be careful of the current ratings. The connector ratings are for continuous
loads. EV currents have both peak and continuous numbers that are quite
different.
The NEC chart at
http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=nec/unformatted/poster&type=u&title
=Commercial/Industrial%20Wiring%20and%20Raceway%20Chart lists 1/0 wire for
120 amp continuous loads with a 150 amp breaker. Your wire is about half to
one third the size called out by the NEC specification.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:51 PM
Subject: Anderson connector question
> Hi,
> I've seen Anderson SBX350 connectors called out in a number of
> designs. But most of those designs are for DC systems that must pull a
> good bit more than 350 Amps. Do these connectors do well above rated
> current? The reason I ask is that I'm doing an AC system, so battery
> current is limited at 288 Amps. I'd like to use 1/0 cable (even that is
> probably excessive), but only the SBX175 lists 1/0 as a valid wire
> size. Should I go with SBX350 and figure out how to crimp to a 1/0 cable,
> or go with SBX175 and run the connector at more than spec?
>
> I won't hold anyone liable for an answer, just looking for some guidance.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess what I am saying is what is the least expensive contactor I can get
by with. Lawrence Rhodes.....
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 7:20 PM
Subject: Fw: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=622&product_id=933
> 14 dollar selinoid. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
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>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
>
>
> >
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
> 24
> > dollar Selinoid. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
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> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 1:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> >
> >
> > > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > > > How can a 36v system use 5 12v contactors and last 40 years.
> > >
> > > A well-designed contactor controller arranges things so no contact
> > > switches full pack voltage. You always have multiple contacts in
series,
> > > and/or switch between series/parallel and with/without the starting
> > > resistor so stress on the contacts is minimized.
> > >
> > > > When the Voltage was raised to 48v 3 contactors fried.
> > >
> > > 30-36v is about the maximum voltage that you can switch with
negligible
> > > contact arcing. The voltage is too low to sustain an arc.
> > >
> > > When you went to 48v, now you have enough voltage to sustain an arc.
If
> > > the contacts don't have sufficient "off" spacing, an arc is
established
> > > when they break the load, and can continue for long enough to severely
> > > burn the contacts.
> > >
> > > > Do the middle contactors take less stress?
> > >
> > > I'd have to know the circuit of your controller to guess.
> > >
> > > > Could I replace the fried contactors with 48v ones(lets say the
> > > > 21 buck ones from Wilde EV) and be on my way or replace all 5.
> > >
> > > I don't know what WildeEV has; can you provide a reference.
> > > --
> > > Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> > > 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> > > Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> > > leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard
Cohen
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have narrowed selection to Dual Pro
http://www.4unique.com/battery/dual-pro/dual-pro.htm
This charger comes in different models and outputs, but
I am focusing on the SE model that has a 10 amp output.
These chargers will connect to two batteries at a time.
Since I have a 132 VDC pack, I would need two 48 VDC
chargers and one 36 VDC charger. If I figure 75%
efficiency ((132 * 10)/ .75) = 1760 watts of AC power
in. It should be OK to run these chargers all off the
same 120 VAC 20 amp outlet.
I found a better price by using ebay
http://search.stores.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&colorid=5&fp=3&ebaytag1=ebayavail&ebaytag1code=1&ebaycurr=1&from=R10&st=2&attr_form_changed=0&combine=y&query=Dual+Pro+charger+se&SortProperty=MetaEndSort
(2 * $274 + $211) = $759 + S&H
For that price you get a 10 amp charge current, three
stage charging, and all the other bells and whistles.
The price is comparable to a light dimmer charger,
but you get the benefits from smart charging technology.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to extend an open invitation to everyone to participate in the Open
Info Data Stack on PEVs. The purpose of this stack is to help stimulate new
designs and new thinking in Personal Electric Vehicles in an open public
domain dataspace in order to identify powerful, reliable, and efficient PEV
designs that we all can benefit from.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/openinfo/
This means that we want all you engineering and designer types to be sure,
but this also means that we need lots of opinions from ordinary end users.
We need to define a number of projects and design directions based on what
you, the end users and enthusiasts, want to see in a personal electric
vehicle. We expect to be developing a number of different configurations
(standing scooter, sitting scooter, straddled cycle, ?) with the same basic
drivetrain.
We want your feedback of the various ideas being discussed, as well as your
direction on which features are the most important to you and which aspects
of other designs you like and don't like. These opinions will directly shape
and focus this project which will benefit us all.
The outcome of this project should be detailed public domain plans and part
sources that will help any users everywhere build or design their very own
reliable PEVs.
Thanks for your participation!
-KT Roughneck
Outlaw Turbologist
http://visforvoltage.com
866-872-8901 - toll-free message center
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
About 5.5 hp. This of course assumes that their claim of only 6 sq ft
of frontal area is correct (seems a tad on the small side, especially
considering it includes the rider)
On Mon, 2003-05-26 at 19:36, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Could someone translate this into Horsepower needed to go down the road at
> 60mph? A Vetter/Rifle full upright bike fairing needs 3 hp at 60 mph.
> Lynches recumbent needs 2 hp at 60 mph. Lawrence Rhodes.....
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
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>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 9:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car weighing
> 2000 pounds
>
>
> > According to wind tunnel tests (http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/aero.html), the
> > Suzukii Hayabusa (the fastest production motorcycle today) has a Cd of
> .561,
> > but the frontal area is only .558 sq. m. This translates to a CdA of .313
> > sq. m. By comparison, the Honda Insight has a Cd of only .25, but the
> > frontal area is 1.9 sq. m, so the Cda is .475. Therefore, all other
> things
> > being equal, a Hayabusa can get down the road with less energy than an
> > Insight.
> >
> > The Hayabusa is impractical, of course, because of the discomfort of
> sitting
> > in the crouched position needed to get those numbers, and also because you
> > have to convince your insurance company that you're riding a 75 mph
> electric
> > commuter rather than the 187 mph squid-killer that is a factory Hayabusa.
> >
> > Even lesser bikes are still decent. I don't know what the frontal area or
> > Cd of my Helix are, but the Cd is much worse than a sports bike,
> especially
> > with me sitting up. However, I know that even with the inefficient
> > Hondamatic transmission, the Helix hits 72 mph with its 13.2 hp (roughly
> > 10kW) engine, and will cruise all day long at 60-65 mph at somewhat less
> > than full throttle (headwind notwithstanding.) The Reflex hits even
> higher
> > speeds with nearly the same engine, a testament to its better
> aerodynamics.
> >
> > I think any faired motorcycle could make a decently efficient vehicle, and
> > with more energy-dense batteries now available, a fairly long range
> vehicle
> > as well.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > >From : "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To :
> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : Re: Price for a 120 mile range
> > >performance oriented car weighing 2000 pounds. Date : Sat, 24 May
> 2003
> > >15:04:21 -0500
> > >
> > >I did some research on the motorcycle drag question. They are not quite
> as
> > >bad as a barn door.The Build Your Own EV book (p. 138) lists the flat
> plate
> > >Cd at 1.94. Toyota Echo is 0.29. A typical motorcycle with fairing is
> > >0.5,
> > >although some internet sites list motorcycle Cd's as low as 0.29 (Yamaha
> > >YZF1000)
> > http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcyam/96yamahas.html
> > and 0.33 (Kawasaki GPZ900R)
> > http://www.khi.co.jp/mcycle/museum/gpz900r/history/index_e.html
> > Aerodynamic drag is proportional to Cd and vehicle frontal area. Small
> cars
> > might have a frontal area of 18 sq-ft.(see p 140), while one site
> specified
> > 6 sq-ft for high performance production motorcycles.
> > http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0106_aero/
> >
> > Using the typical numbers:
> >
> > CdA for small car = 0.29 * 18 = 5.22
> > CdA for motorcycle = 0.5 * 6 = 3.0
> >
> > So car vs. cycle calculations will not scale by one quarter when it comes
> to
> > aerodynamic drag. Proportionally speaking, the cycle will need more
> > batteries or get less range than the car.
> >
> > However, as several others have suggested, using FF and fully enclosed
> > passenger compartments will bring drag down to car type levels and make
> the
> > 120 mile electric motorcycle a practical possibility.
> >
> > Also see this website for some basic drag coefficient information:
> > http://www.bgsoflex.com/airdragchart.html
> >
> > Mark T.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> >
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> 24 dollar Solenoid
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only good for
about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic, or they have
changed something inside to suppress arcing.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil. Not the
contacts.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > 24 dollar Solenoid
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
>
> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only good for
> about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic, or they have
> changed something inside to suppress arcing.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<2 - how do i go about hooking up the rest of the
controller to the motor?
there are 4 large and 3 small ports on the controller,
and I only have the
wire that comes from the 36V and the wire that used to
go from the contactor
plates to the motor?>>
Just did this 2 days ago, so it's fresh in my mind:
B- lug gets battery negative,
B+ lug gets battery positive and motor positive,
M- lug gets motor negative,
A2 lug gets ignored,
top connector goes through keyswitch to battery
positive (or B+ lug)
bottom 2 connectors go to pot (either way - just
measures resistance between the 2 leads)
That leaves whatever you're doing for a contactor,
although you could use one of those 24V battery
disconnects with the removable "big red plastice key",
since those are rated for 500A.
________________________________________________
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I stopped at Harbor Freight on Sunday and picked up a few items including a
park bench.
A 20 something guy wheeled the bench to my TEVan and noticed the license
plate 'E tric'
and wanted to know more. I popped the hood and told him it was 100%
electric. This caught
the attention of another person in the parking lot who stopped by inspect
the van.
After talking to these guys for about 5 minutes the Harbor Freight guy
started to walk back
to the store and turned around and said
'thanks for saving the environment for my kids'
That made my day.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>>> 24 dollar Solenoid
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only
>> good for about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic,
>> or they have changed something inside to suppress arcing.
Joe Smalley wrote:
> My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil.
> Not the contacts.
It does say "24v coil".
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> It is very likely that I am terminated. Absences within the
> first 90 days is not tolerated and are terminated at Home
> Depot.
WHAT?!!! That would be unfair dismissal here (I hope). Makes me
glad I don't live in the USA.
I have my fingers crossed for you, hope you get better soon. And I
REALLY hope you don't lose your job.
--
Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
LRW at clear.net.nz
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/460.html
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/lrw
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben Apollonio wrote:
> I'm being forced to rethink my EV plans. No more 120V pack of T-105's
> on a raptor 600...if this is a Porsche, it's gotta have some kick,
> yet I also would like to be able make a 25-mile commute to work...
>
> Performance-wise, I would love a set of 13 group 34 optima YT's and a
> Raptor 1200, though Seth thinks I'd get about 25mi max with these.
Or worse. Range is all about battery weight. 13 Optima YTs is only 565
lbs, or around 25% of the total vehicle weight will be in batteries.
That's low.
> So then I'm wondering how I could do range-wise with the same number
> of 75Ah group 31 YT's.
Range would certainly be better (more battery weight). But are these
batteries actually available? And has anyone tried them yet?
> How about biting the bullet and switching to a higher-voltage
> controller (Z1K) with more batteries?
That would be a more conservative (but expensive) approach. There have
been several 914's that did this successfully.
> The third option - to try to use floodies - is almost completely
> voided by the fact that the car comes with manual brakes, to say
> nothing of the fact that it has a max GVWR of 2690lbs (loaded),
> and the body itself weighs around 1400.
Well, nothing says you have to make it a "lead sled". Do you really
*have* to have Porsche performance? Could you be happy with (say) 96v of
T-105's (~1000 lbs)? Especially for a first EV, you may want to use
cheaper batteries that won't cost so much if you abuse them.
Or, do you feel ambitious? We've discussed hybrid battery packs on a
number of occasions (one pack for performance, one for range). You could
use 120v of Optima YTs, plus 48v of 6v T-105s. You'd have ~1000 lbs of
lead for better range while still within the GVWR. You'd then use a
DC/DC boost converter to step up the 48v to 120v. The boost converter
would be set up to deliver relatively constant power to the 120v pack,
so the floodeds don't have to deliver high currents. The Optimas deliver
the high peak currents, but then get recharged by the floodeds when
coasting, decellerating, stopped, or driving slow. That's the theory,
anyway.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So then I'm wondering how I could do range-wise with the same number
> of 75Ah group 31 YT's.
Range would certainly be better (more battery weight). But are these
batteries actually available? And has anyone tried them yet?
They are definitely available. At least one Ev'r has bought a new pack of
these after having built his EV around the original prototypes.
Unfortunately for him the size changed and he needed new battery boxes. But
that's not an issue in this case.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/206.html
damon
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The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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--- Begin Message ---
I had a similar EVent the other day while making one of my many trips
through the neighborhood on Sparky. One of my neighbors flagged me down,
and after taking a few minutes to look things over said something along the
lines of "Very smart, this is a great way to stop the wars." Now I'm not
naive enough to believe that EV's can stop all wars, the world was full of
wars long before Internal Combustion Engines, but it seems obvious that
America's oil dependency has been a major factor in the US going to war with
Iraq twice, although this is about as political as I want to go on this
list.
damon
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EV comments
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:05:46 -0400
I stopped at Harbor Freight on Sunday and picked up a few items including a
park bench.
A 20 something guy wheeled the bench to my TEVan and noticed the license
plate 'E tric'
and wanted to know more. I popped the hood and told him it was 100%
electric. This caught
the attention of another person in the parking lot who stopped by inspect
the van.
After talking to these guys for about 5 minutes the Harbor Freight guy
started to walk back
to the store and turned around and said
'thanks for saving the environment for my kids'
That made my day.
Rod
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I have 16 US125s (96v total) system with a Russco SC 18-120 charger.
Near the end of a charging cycle, the charger's amp gauge reads
2 or 3 amps and my volt meter reads about 120 volts. If I put my
ear near the battery pack, I can hear a slight bubbly sound (like
an open soda can). Is this just normal end of cycle gassing?
Thanks,
.....Ken
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No, it doesn't have to be new. Just in good mechanical condition.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold
dear. - Daniel Dennett
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of The Levine Family
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 2:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Miata Conversion
<<I haven't seen a Miata EV conversion. But since just about anything can
be converted, I don't see why he can't do it.>>
Yup: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/174.html He doesn't list conversion
cost.
<<Since they are still a relatively expensive car, it probably pays to do
a fairly nice conversion. Is he willing to spend the $5k to $10k it
would cost?>>
Does it have to be brand new? The older versions with pop-up headlights run
$4K or less in good running condition.
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I just talked with Jim Weirick (he bought my 1984 Fiero). He installed 20
SAFT STM-180
NiCds (1000lbs) in the Fiero. He bought 30 used batteries from SAFT for
$2400 including shipping.
It should be interesting to find out what kind of range he gets with this
setup.
I don't think he has a digital camera, so I will get some pictures and post
them on the EVabulm next
time he stops by my house.
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objectionable. Driving behind an electric car is quite nice, really; I'm
thinking, hey, this guy is not belching smoke in my face.
Ummm, this isn't necessarily true, let me 'splain.
The other night I spent a couple of hours tinkering on Sparky my 48V 1974
Suzuki GX250, at the Wayland EV juice bar. I had finally received my new
speedo cable so I was actually able determine what speed I was riding at.
Although the 4 Hawker GE16P's that made up my test pack were making a
valliant effort, especially considering that they had spent their life up to
this point riding in the back of "White Zombie" trying desperately to hold
themselves together as they belted out 800 amps in 13 second bursts and
occasionally witnessed one of their "pack buddies" explode, they were not
able to get me to my goal of 60mph as the voltage was sagging down to 37
volts by the time I hit 54mph. The solution was to grab 4 more of these
same batteries and wire them up in parallel. The batteries themselves were
happy to join a new kinder regime and only let out one small spark of
dissension during the wiring process which hardly bares mentioning after the
well documented yet unsuccessfull "Plasma Ball Revolt" a few years ago as
they tried to free themselves from the evil dictator who was routinely
torturing them all the while proclaiming to the world that they enjoyed,
indeed thrived under these conditions. A more leisurely life of occasionall
250+ amp discharges in the open air of a classic motorcycle frame did not
seem like such a bad gig and they now routinely take me over the 60mph
threshhold I have been seeking, but I get ahead of myself.
Once the wiring was done John started tempting me with a test run up one of
Portlands major surface streets. This would not have been a problem other
then the fact that I don't yet have any of the twelve volt system wired up
thus no headlight, brake lights, or blinkers, not to mention the fact that
the bike has no plates and I have not yet gotten my motorcycle endorsement.
John could see the weakeness in my resolve, however, in fact probably knew
that I had been planning on doing this very thing the whole time anyway else
why would I have brought my helmet? I put up a weak fight which he quickly
beat down then grabbed his digital camera so he could snap some photos as he
rode silently along side me in Blue Meanie. I questioned him about local
police patrols which he claimed to have no control over besides he said it
would be fun explaining to the police exactly what we are up to. Now you
see what kind of a twisted deviant my batteries have been subjected to.
When questioning what our route should be he suggested that we head East on
Glisan which would take us right past the police station. By this time I
had no will power left, not so much because John was pressing the issue, but
because I was dying to try out the new pack so we headed out for a little EV
test run. As we turned out of John's street onto Glisan and began to
accelerate up to speed John pulled up beside me a started snapping photos.
Before we could get going to fast a red light came up and we chatted as we
sat there waiting for green. It was getting late in the evening, but there
was plenty of traffic out and we where right in the middle of it. The light
changed and we were off again. This time there where no more lights coming
up for a while so we were able to accelerate up to full speed. Traffic
settled in at about 50mph and I was right in the middle of it. This was the
first time I had been surrounded by traffic like this and with plenty of
pull left in the motor I was feeling confident. That silly thing that
happens to all of our faces started to spread across my mine. Man, this was
a lot of fun. After riding with traffic for about a half mile I made a
right hand turn and John followed. We cut through a neighborhood and headed
back west towards John's house on Burnside. On Johns side of town Burnside
has it's eastbound and westbound lanes split by Portland's electric light
rail system. As we pulled out a train was coming and for a while all three
Ev's where gliding along silently together. We returned to John's house and
plugged into his ugly box charger to returned some of the used amp hours.
The four new batteries had not been excercised for a while, so we knew they
would be even stronger on the next run. This time we decided to go even
further. This time we would go east until we made it to John Tuss's house.
This would be a round trip of about 4 miles. It was basically the same
route as before but John Tuss lived further east then I had take us. This
time John lead the way. I followed him on Sparky once again enjoying the
pull of the electric motor and the feeling of being surrounded by traffic
but having no problem keeping up. We knocked on Tuss's door only to find
that we had woken him up. No problem he assured us, and came out to enjoy a
few minutes worth of chat about the new project and unplug his electric
truck. We said goodbye and that's when it happened, although I admit he at
least gave me warning first. John thought I would enjoy the view and
apparently the smell of Blue Meanie smoking the tires from a motorcycles
perspective. As we headed back out on Burnside John let loose with some of
the 1200 DCP Raptor's amps that he has available leaving two big black marks
on the rode and a cloud of smoke for me to ride through. The smoke filled
my helmet and my nose, and though I know John has a hard time believing
this, not everyone enjoys the smell of burnt rubber as much as he does. So
next time you are following behind a stinky gas powered ICE just remember
that if you happen to be following behind John Wayland in Blue Meanie, you
may be in for just as bad of a smell.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I have narrowed selection to Dual Pro
> http://www.4unique.com/battery/dual-pro/dual-pro.htm
>
> This charger comes in different models and outputs, but
> I am focusing on the SE model that has a 10 amp output.
> These chargers will connect to two batteries at a time.
>
> Since I have a 132 VDC pack, I would need two 48 VDC
> chargers and one 36 VDC charger. If I figure 75%
> efficiency ((132 * 10)/ .75) = 1760 watts of AC power
> in. It should be OK to run these chargers all off the
> same 120 VAC 20 amp outlet.
Don't count on it: no PFC. The manufacturer is a little light on input
power specs, but consider the Statpower Truecharge 20 (12V 20A
switchmode charger) as an example:
Output: 20A @ 14.8V = 296W
Efficiency: 85%
Input: 348 / 0.85 = 348W
So far, so good.
But wait, there in the fine print it states the Truecharge 20 draws a
maximum of 8A @ 115VAC (nominal): 920W! If the line voltage sags, the
line current increases...
There's also a small error in your calculation: 132V is the nominal
voltage of your pack, not its voltage under charge. Figure that peak
power will occur at about 2.45V/cell and you are looking at 161.7V @ 10A
= 1617W output. At 85% efficiency this is 1617/ 0.85 = 1902W input
(e.g. 16.5A @ 115VAC).
But, you are only allowed to draw 80% of the 20A outlet's theoretical
2300W, which is just 1840W (16A @ 115VAC): so even before the bad power
factor gets you, you already have trouble.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Rich Rudman wrote:
>
>
> Umm nice Lee, where's the capacity increase???? There should be some.
> Joe has the Evercell test back on line, we peaked back up to 84
> amphours, It got low for some reason, After are "abusive" load test.
> The Art of these new chemistries is how hard do you push them to
> increse in capacitiy, and still do no harm.
> Victor and John say you need at least 5 cycles to fully wake up LiOn.
I can only say what data sheet says - 5 cycles.
My 2 cells working in ACRX didn't even have that - but since the
rest of the pack was about 35Ah anyway, I didn't care.
Personally, from what I've seen, I think 5 cycles aren't enough.
Somewhere close to 20 - may be. BTW, thunder says *at least* 5 cycles.
Victor
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Lee and others,
Please keep in mind that at about 5.5V electrolyte begins
irreversibly decomposing.
3.6V vs 3.7V makes no difference, 4.2 vs 4.3 makes BIG difference.
We will only know when destroy one. Reports show overcharging
experiments, but it was done for safety testing and deliberate
gross overcharge, not to find fine limit. This is up to us.
Victor
Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> Alex Karahalios wrote:
> >
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > Did you actually get a data sheet with the batteries? The online
> > "Instruction Manual" states that they should be charged at 4.25V. Not a
> > big difference, just wondering.
> >
> > Alex Karahalios
> >
> > On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 12:32 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > > Their data sheet says a new battery should be charged at 0.3C and the
> > > voltage limited to 4.3v.
>
> In the very careful world of cell charging, 4.100 to 4.250 volts may be
> the difference between getting %100 cap and %50 cap.
> I expect Lee to note this rather soon.....
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Michael Hurley wrote:
>
> >Impressive.... although 'only' 2C, while the smaller cells are rated for
> >a max discharge of 3C.
>
> Still much higher discharge capabilities overall.
>
> I'm not sure if the 180 amps is telling what the maximum safe charge
> current or most efficient charge current. Depending upon the
> translator "best" could be seen to mean either.
0.3C is described as optimal (take it as max for gentle treatment).
You don't have to be gentle though, the cells were tried with 1C
charging with no side effects (as far as capacity, not life).
As with other types, the gentler you go - the less losses you
have, but takes longer.
In practical terms you should dial the charger to get them full
by the time in the morning you need to unplug it, whatever amps
that happens to be.
Victor
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Roy LeMeur wrote:
>
> My first impression was also _wow_. But for how long?
> What if you go _too_ long.
>
> OK... who is gonna be the first one to pop one of these puppies? :^D
>
> NEDRA racers of course!
For racing these are actually a bad choice - too little available
power and so much unused energy left after drag. At least
thunder-sky ones.
They are rather for good street performance and great range.
Also, R_int is high.
Victor
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Sell, Ken wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have 16 US125s (96v total) system with a Russco SC 18-120 charger.
> Near the end of a charging cycle, the charger's amp gauge reads
> 2 or 3 amps and my volt meter reads about 120 volts. If I put my
> ear near the battery pack, I can hear a slight bubbly sound (like
> an open soda can). Is this just normal end of cycle gassing?
Yep!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Chris Weaver wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I've seen Anderson SBX350 connectors called out in a number of
> designs. But most of those designs are for DC systems that must pull a
> good bit more than 350 Amps. Do these connectors do well above rated
> current? The reason I ask is that I'm doing an AC system, so battery
> current is limited at 288 Amps. I'd like to use 1/0 cable (even that is
> probably excessive), but only the SBX175 lists 1/0 as a valid wire
> size. Should I go with SBX350 and figure out how to crimp to a 1/0 cable,
> or go with SBX175 and run the connector at more than spec?
>
> I won't hold anyone liable for an answer, just looking for some guidance.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
bigger is better.
solder them. Then you can reuse them. I have stuff pushing a decade old,
it's still ready for that 1000 amp run when needed.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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