EV Digest 2826
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) US Battery Life
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Back on topic - why I like electric
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Segway MetaMedia...Washington City Paper: Department of Media
by Rusty Feasel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Link-10/EMeter pre-scaler
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: VERY OT Back on topic - why I like electric
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT. Important!!!!! OIL supplies, was Re: EV comments
by Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Link-10/EMeter pre-scaler
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Todd DC/DC/ converter question
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Link-10/EMeter pre-scaler
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Link-10/EMeter pre-scaler
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: US Battery Life
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Todd DC/DC/ converter question
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Efficiency numbers
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) OT:Re: Back on topic - why I like electric
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Back on topic - why I like electric
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Wind generator now fitted to solarvan!
by "ev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: US Battery Life
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RE: Supercaps vs AGM for drag racing?
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: OT. Important!!!!! OIL supplies, was Re: EV comments
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Supercaps vs AGM for drag racing?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: OT. Important!!!!! OIL supplies, was Re: EV comments
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Status of E-Cycle?
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) DC-DC's in parallel?
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Todd DC/DC/ converter question
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) OT:John Wayland just wants to be left alone
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by Sherri J Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Link-10/EMeter pre-scaler
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Link-10/EMeter pre-scaler
by Stan Witherspoon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have BCI cycle life data and cost numbers on US batteries
such as
the US250 and US250HC ??
Menlo Park III,
Bill
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, today I like electric 'cause my truck hauled a load of compost
without complaint.
With the arrival of prom & wedding season, I've been impressed with all
the stretch SUV limos appearing. It boggles my mind that in a town where
school & town employees are being laid off left and right while everyone
bemoans how tight money is that folks will find $1000's to send their
kids off to the prom in a stretch humvee. What exactly is the american
dream? (rhetorical question)
But then... my mind went back to a posting a couple of years ago from a
high school EVer who went to the prom in his converted EV. I can't
remember who it was and have lost track of what EV things he may be up
to now. But we know that more recently Seth M. did his first EV
conversion in high school and now in college has started his second and
has also gotten a friend hooked so a third EV conversion underway. Just
perhaps....
Original messages:
> The trend in transportation
> is very desturbing when I drive by at least 4-5
> expeditions commuting with single people to work.
> Humvee's? these are hideous vehicles with no purpose
> for civilian transportation. I would think a Tango
> would be much cooler and unique for the patriotic
> flag wavers.
> >
> > Here are the reasons I drive electric and a hybrid
> > as far as that goes.
> >
> > I really believe it is better for the environment. ...
> >
> > I think that electric drive is much simpler technology which
> > is less prone to break. ...
> >
> > It's just plain cool ...
> >
> > I have always loved playing with electicity. ...
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/archives/media/2003/media0530.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The pre-scaler output of my EMeter is reading about 290V. If I
understand it right, it should actually be reading 32V for a pack
voltage of 320V. The problem is the pre-scaler is located in the
battery compartment which takes a half day to remove.
Does anyone actually know how the pre-scaler is constructed? I remember
seeing a small black thing (about 1/2"x 2") in the battery compartment.
After finding out that the 0-500V pre-scaler costs $85, I'm puzzled as
to what's inside it? I'm concerned since it may be causing some ground
fault problems in my car. Knowing the schematic would be helpful.
Alex Karahalios
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri J Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Back on topic - why I like electric
> >Please excuse me while I puke my guts out after
> reading this load of
> crap.
> >
> This is amazing! I don't want to start a political
> war, but who in their right mind thinks the war had
> anything to do with WMD?
I do - and I'm probably more in my right mind than most are.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Please excuse me while I puke............
Yeah, and I wouldn't exactly call Matt's quotes in his signature "neutral".
My goal for 2003 is to purchase no, none, zero gallons of evil gasoline. So
far, with the help of my EV and Biodiesel-powered VW Rabbit, I'm happy to
report that I'm 100% on track as of this date.
My motivations? All of the environmental, social, and recreational aspects
of electric vehicles that we all find so dear -AND- as a political statment
to thumb my nose at George Bush, his administration, and all of the oil
money that helped him steal the election.
How's that for motivation?
Guess Matt's conservative friends will have to drive their SUV's in circles
to neturalize my actions.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The pre-scaler output of my EMeter is reading about 290V. If I
understand it right, it should actually be reading 32V for a pack
voltage of 320V. The problem is the pre-scaler is located in the
battery compartment which takes a half day to remove.
Does anyone actually know how the pre-scaler is constructed? I
remember seeing a small black thing (about 1/2"x 2") in the battery
compartment. After finding out that the 0-500V pre-scaler costs $85,
I'm puzzled as to what's inside it? I'm concerned since it may be
causing some ground fault problems in my car. Knowing the schematic
would be helpful.
Alex Karahalios
Here is a equivalent circuit.
http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/Prescaler.GIF
The box on the bottom is a DC-DC that I added.
The reason for the high price is the very low volume of the market.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I've enjoyed reading the Todd DC-DC discussions. Years back, I was a Todd reseller and
have seen many, many of them come and go through my EV shop. I love them! Some have
reported troubles and have warned of their unsuitability for use in vehicles, sighting
poor moisture proofing, but I have used Todd converters with very reliable results
since
'96, and the PC40, under Blue Meanie's hood has been reliably slamming out either 13.1
or
14+ volts (it switches from a standby voltage to a 'run' voltage) for many years now. I
believe if the vehicle is prepped and properly set up in the design and placement of
components, most problems don't even occur. For example, the under-hood are of my daily
driver is well protected from the elements, and the Todd has survived years of Portland
rains. On the other hand, I 'did' set up a certain hot rod Renault, and had mounted a
Todd
PC30 in an area that unbeknownst to me, would get swamped when the car was hosed
off...it
died a smoking and steaming death! Come to think of it...in that same car, before it
went
up to 192V, we also fried a stock PC30 (non-LV model) when we ran it at under 100V when
the 120V pack sagged on a long drive one day. Other than these failures, I've never had
another 'in car' Todd failure.
>From Sharky:
>"Old" Todds are distinguished by the large, extruded aluminum case which is
>roughly square in cross section and has one master module and one to four
>slave modules. The "newer" Todds are lower profile and have the electronics
>all mounted on one PC board (and the electronics is much more intricate
>than the old units).
Taking this a step further....all the models of the first generation series, the 'old
Todds', have the same extruded heat sink, but are varying lengths...it's like having a
party sized sub sandwich that you can hack off any length sandwiches you desire. The
shorty ones are either the PC20LV or PC30 and these are basically square blocks...then
there's the PC40 and the longer PC40LV, then the s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d version, the 75 amp
PC75. The very earliest models of these first generation series did not have the
external
jumper buss that can allow the converter to switch output voltages, but after those,
all
the later ones did.
Todd designed these first and foremost, as 12V power supplies for the RV industry, and
their lightweight and compact size, thanks to switchmode operation, made them the
choice
over the boat anchor Lester monsters that weighed 40 lbs., hummed, and got hot. It was
almost accidental that the Todds found their way into DC powered EVs. Once a small
market
was established, the engineers at Todd designed two versions just for EVs, the PC20LV
and
PC40LV models. The LV models work well with 'lower voltage' EVs, the 96V-120V vehicles,
where the non-LV Todds can overheat and destruct at these voltages...been there, done
that.
Joe Smalley wrote:
> Why did they change the design and then go out of business?
When Todd redesigned their DC-DC supplies, they targeted a less expensive way to
produce
both 120vac models and 240vac models in order to supply both the 120vac and 240vac RV
needs. Before the design change, RV customers wanting 240vac supplies had to custom
order
them, where Todd would install different magnetics (transformers and coils), circuits,
etc. The new models were all 240vac units from the start, and to make a 120vac model,
they
simply installed a simple voltage doubler ahead of the 240vac model's board. For those
not
too electronic savvy, a voltage doubler uses simple diodes and capacitors to take an AC
input and easily convert it to double the voltage at a DC level. This worked very well
for
Todd and they now could easily and inexpensively sell both 120vac and 240vac converters
without much cost and no changes to the basic design....it worked badly for the tiny EV
market they had, basically, ending it, as the new design 120vac models with their
internal
voltage doublers could not take a DC input as the old Todds could. The new design
240vac
models, minus an internal voltage doubler, though, could, and one of these units is
still
in Tango and has been faithfully providing beefy 12V juice to power even one of my
sound
systems! The only problem, is that the 240vac model needs at least 240vdc to run, and
many
EVs are still in the sub 200V range :-( You can tell the 120vac models apart from the
240vac models, in that 120vac had red print and graphics, while the 240vac had green.
The new design Todds no longer had the sub sandwich heat sink shape, and instead, were
a
smaller package similar in shape to a medium size dictionary laying flat. There were
small
heat sink fins on the sides, but the top and bottom panels were sheet metal...all
models
were fan-cooled with variable fan speeds depending on current flow and heat. The power
input cord was a removable type, like those used in computer supplies, and the DC
output
terminals were robust, not identical to, but similar to the first generation type
terminals to where they accepted large gauge wire and used screw-down fasteners.
As to why Todd went out of business, I cannot say, but while they were here, the
company
was easy to work with and they bent over backwards to take care of EVers. When they
made
the change to the new design, I complained LOUDLY to my Todd friends about the new
models
no longer being DC-EV friendly, other than the 240vac models that had a limited EV
market,
and they listened. They asked me to give them a wish list for a medium powered
one-model
range for the EV market, and together we came up with what I called the PC35. This was
a
very compact, high performance 6 X 6 block, approx. 2.5 inches thick, and with the
small
cooling fan jutting out from the back right corner, an external phone jack jumper for
the
dual DC output voltage thing, and a green power on LED. They could take anywhere from
120vdc to 156vdc, and put out a solid 35 amps at 12-14+V. Unfortunately, they only
made 5
of these and they all came to me as prototypes only, not for resale. The case is the
same
compact size as the new generation PC20 they made.
I sill have four of the five PC35's left (one inexplicably died a smoking death). One
has
powered up my secondary 14V system in my Insight soundoff car since '01, and takes
input
from the car's 144V NiMH battery pack (120 D cells) while jamming 35 amps into an 11
lb.
high current SVR battery and the stereo load. The combination of the 3 lb. Todd and
the 11
lb. AGM battery makes for a potent but light weight (fits the theme and mission of the
Insight's feather-weight) power supply to juice up the 700 watt (rms, in car delivered
power) sound system. The supply is ungrounded and floats separate from the car's
regular
12V system, for zero system power supply noise and zero light-dimming effects. It can
give
a constant 35 amps at 14+ volts, and even at high 80-90 peak current draws, sags to
just
the mid 13V area as the fully charged SVR battery digs in to help out. Another PC35
awaits
installation in the rear of Blue Meanie to power up the upgraded sound system I'm
working
on. The two other ones have 50 amp Anderson pigtails and are used as shop 12V supplies
constantly, either freshening up spare Hawkers, or fast charging modified scooters.
I do believe, that after I told Rod Wilde about these nifty DC-DC's, he called Todd and
they sold him a limited availablity lot of similar models...perhaps he could clarify.
Beside the four PC35's, I also have a new generation PC30 that's considerably larger
than
the compact PC35, that I use for yet another shop 12V supply, an old generation large
size
PC40LV, an old generation PC20LV shorty, and one left of another four custom made
models
that Todd worked up for me years ago, a 50
amp version of the first generation PC 40, but with fan cooling.
You could say I'm a Todd DC-DC fan!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm assuming that the diode labeled 24vZ is suppose to be a 24V Zener?
If it is, then how is this suppose to pre-scale 0-500V? I would think
this would clip at 24V not at 50V?
Alex Karahalios
On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 09:24 PM, Otmar wrote:
Here is a equivalent circuit.
http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/Prescaler.GIF
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm assuming that the diode labeled 24vZ is suppose to be a 24V
Zener? If it is, then how is this suppose to pre-scale 0-500V? I
would think this would clip at 24V not at 50V?
Ah, Whoops,
I forgot, we made it for 144V cars and probably had those lying
around. You are right about needing 50V or higher (because of
leakage) for 500V input. I never measured that part on the blown one
that I took apart.
That zener is there to protect the emeter from excessive input in
case the emeter is disconnected from the prescaler while the pack is
still connected.
Since the emeters' internal resistance makes up the low side of the
voltage divider, when the meter is disconnected the filter caps in
the prescaler could charge all the way up to pack voltage if no zener
was holding the voltage to a safe value for the meter.
Myself, I also change the prescaler resistor values. I make it so
that the emeter reads 12.00 V when the pack is at nominal voltage.
That way, no matter what voltage the car is built for, I always see
nice familiar values for voltage.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
Your ending line mentions Menlo Park (you are
local to me).
Give a call to our local US Battery rep:
Jim Ramos 510-881-5122
American Battery 22851 Sutro St Hayward CA 94541
He will give you all the data and prices you want.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah! My Todd arrived today. A quick test on 110VAC indicates that it
works too (always a good thing with Ebay purchases)
> Taking this a step further....all the models of the first generation series, the 'old
> Todds', have the same extruded heat sink, but are varying lengths...it's like having
> a
> party sized sub sandwich that you can hack off any length sandwiches you desire. The
> shorty ones are either the PC20LV or PC30 and these are basically square
> blocks...then
> there's the PC40 and the longer PC40LV, then the s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d version, the 75
> amp
> PC75.
>From Lee Hart's description, mine would appear to be the 75 Amp version.
14.75 inches long. Not bad for $25.
> The very earliest models of these first generation series did not have the external
> jumper buss that can allow the converter to switch output voltages, but after those,
> all
> the later ones did.
Hmm, mine has large red and white terminals on it which I guess are the
DC output. It also has a small terminal strip with two connectors that
is unlabeled. Would this be the jumper buss you refer too? If so how
do I use it? Short the two connections together to switch to voltages?
Right now it has an unloaded output voltage of 13.7V and the jumper is
not connected.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 May 2003 at 14:32, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> So, the comparison isn't especially useful either. You need to compare
> comparable packs, being used the same way.
Good grief, it's not like I'm trying to fool anyone. If you think it's
invalid, just drop the golf car batteries from the list and make it a
comparison of four types instead of five.
Picky, picky. ;-)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >> jerry dycus
> >--
> >My Favorite Quotes:
> >"God Bless America." - President George W. Bush
> >"Let's roll." - Todd Beamer
> >"From my cold dead hands!" - Charleton Heston, NRA President
> >"Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!" - President Ronald Reagan
> >"Words mean things." - Rush Limbaugh
Some of my favorites
"God Bless America" - Ethel Merman
"Lets Rock"- John Lennon & many others
"Solient Green is People" - Charleton Heston, Actor
"Ich bin ein Berliner" - John Kennedy, translation: I'm some sort of
German hot dog bun.
"Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" - Al Franken, humorist & author
Sorry Jerry but you LEFT youself open for this........Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are going to install a 1kw solar system with extra racks to expand this
month. We are counting on this helping break our dependance. Just one
small step. Others to follow......With the Time of Use Meter we will get
credit for putting watts in at a higher rate than we are taking it out. Our
EV's will be truly free and solar........Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear EVDL list members.
I have now fitted my 400w wind generator to my electric vehicle. For full
details take a look at the web photos at www.solarvan.co.uk
Regards
Peter
Windy North Yorkshire
UK
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bruce,
My Menlo Park III is located in Glastonbury, CT.
I use Menlo Park III as a signoff because one of our previous VPs of
NEEAA once said my place reminded him of the real Menlo Park after he
took a tour of all my solar systems, electric vehicles, and experiemental
projects such as heat pumps and flywheels. There are two real Menlo
Parks that I know of, so I use Menlo Park III :-).
I still need the answer to the question of deep cycle (80 % DOD) on US
Batteries: US250 and US250HC and ballpark prices for a dozen.
Thanks.
Menlo Park III,
Bill Glickman
1051 Hillstown Road
Glastonbury, CT 06033
On Fri, 30 May 2003 22:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Bruce EVangel Parmenter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Bill,
>
> Your ending line mentions Menlo Park (you are
> local to me).
>
> Give a call to our local US Battery rep:
>
> Jim Ramos 510-881-5122
> American Battery 22851 Sutro St Hayward CA 94541
>
> He will give you all the data and prices you want.
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They may not be up to drag racing standards. But I bought some and they
are doing great. My weed wacker has twice the life it used to have and
more power to boot. I am also using them on a minibike with a curtis
controller that is limited to 275 amps anyway. And I think that is more
then I need. I just will have to leave the NEDRA records to others. :-)
At 04:05 PM 5/30/2003, you wrote:
More Bummed. guess not all svr14's are amply equal..
any idea on what they can do?
Jobless in San Jose
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Supercaps vs AGM for drag racing?
I still have over110 new svr14s batteries for sale,but this model does not
put out 1500amps like the svr14s on Rod Wildes web page.The ones I have are
$15
ea + shipping. I also have super power17ah marathorn nicads 4 sale.
Dennis Kilowatt Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On a different tangent.
Why I am making an electric boat:
Besides the fact that I don't much care for two stroke exhaust, I also
don't like to pollute where I fish. Which happens to be Buzzards Bay.
For non locals, think Martha's Vineyard / Southern Cape Cod area in general.
Well, about a month ago, a barge hit a reef not too far from our cottage
and dropped ~100,000 gallons of heavy oil in the estuary. They initially
reported it as ~15,000 gallons, the Coast Guard got the real numbers
from Bouchard Oil a month later. I vacation there in a month or so. I
wonder how the fishing and swimming will be.
Those are a few of the reasons for my EV.
Like everyone, I have my opinions/conspiracy theories about the recent
invasion, but of late my awareness of the cost of oil has gone up for a
different reason.
www.buzzardsbay.org for info on the oil spill
Seth
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Anyones SVR 14s can set new nedra records.(If there bike or car is set up
right)The Current Eliminator can run in the 9s at 240 volts with them on
board.However,I could not reset my 336 volt record with them. Dennis Kill A Watt
Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Matt and All,
--- Matt Muelver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please excuse me while I puke my guts out after
> reading this load of
> crap.
That's rude! Just what part is c---?
>
> Now for some duct tape around the head to keep my
> brains from
> spattering all over the walls when my head explodes
> because I can't
> handle the sheer stupidity.
You do seem to be wrapped up too tight.
>
> It always seems that the narrow minded among us just
> can't follow the
> rules. Since when can we go so far off topic by
> simply putting the
> little "OT" before the post?
It's allowed by the rules. Check them out. And
it isn't that far off topic because it will mean a big
market increase for EV's. It may also let our listees
survive the coming recession.
>
> Now, for my ON TOPIC piece of the day. My Go-Kart
> EV is coming along
> nicely. I'm currently trying to acquire a sprocket
> for my motor and
> fabricate a motor mount. Good news is that I think
> I can use the
> Insight battery pack, if I can find contactors
> robust enough to handle
> 72V and construct some kind of crude controller.
The Insight pack would be overburdened by the
high currents a contactor controller would draw
depending on motor.
Also they are going to be hard to charge. Honda
only uses a small amount of their cap in order to keep
them from dying early. They would be better for an
e-bike that didn't draw so much as most e-go-cart
would.
I wouldn't want to go much more than 2C discharge
rates. Paralleling them isn't good either unless the
packs are charged seperately and disconnected from
each other while idle.
>
> Happy EVing everyone!
>
> On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 03:57 PM, jerry dycus
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Damon and All,
> > --- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> wars long before Internal Combustion Engines, but
> it
> >> seems obvious that
> >> America's oil dependency has been a major factor
> in
> >> the US going to war with
> >> Iraq twice, although this is about as political
> as I
> >> want to go on this
> >> list.
> >>
> >> damon
> > This will be more true in the near future.
> > The world oil production peaked in 2001!!!!
Matt, This is a fact. Did you check out the DOE
, oil mags or other sites with real knowleadge of
this? Burying your head in the sand and saying it
isn't true isn't real smart for national sec, or our
economy.
How many more of our solders must die
needlessly, our national wealth squandered before we
face these facts. Either we face it now or it will be
much worse in the near future.
> No
> > one is talking about this fact that in the next
> year
> > or 2 the demand for oil will exceed supply as it
> did
> > for about 2 weeks during the Iraq war where the
> price
> > went to $39 BBl.
Do you deny this fact?
> > If it had lasted longer no telling how high
> it
> > would go.
> > It didn't help that Bush at the peak bought
> 40
> > million BBL's for the National reserves driving it
> to
> > those levels and as oil men they know what going
> on.
This is a fact. Do you deny it?
It's part of the gov record. The only reason to
pay the high price is if Bush believed that oil
supplies are really bad and prices are going even
higher or wanted to make the shortage worse, driving
up prices. You be the judge.
> > Expect it to return to $39 BBl and more,
> $100
> > bbl, in the next year or 2 unless Bush drives us
> into
> > a deep resession as he seems set on doing.
This follows common sense based on the laws of
supply and demand or do you believe in magic?
US is the largest user of oil with less than 15%
of our reserves left and that is a fact.
While there are other sources like Nat gas, oil
shale, Electricity, turning coal, biomass into liquid
fuel, biodiesel, ethanol, methanol these will take 10
years to come online in any quanity if we start now
which we haven't to any degree so they will not be
here in time to stop the recession.
BTW I personally pump 1/400 of the US oil supply
at my job.
> > While this will be great for EV's the hugh
> rise
> > in energy prices could cause a depression, at
> least a
> > recession. Be prepared!!!
I'm not the only ones who believe this. Read
Hubbert's Peak by a long time oil insider who's job is
to find oil and very sucessful at it. Read oil mags
and other sources for the real story.
Remember oil only has to have demand exceed
supply of 1% to start the big rise in oil prices as it
did during the Iraq war. That is a fact.
> > Those who remember the 73 oil fiasco when
> the US
> > hit it's Peak oil production, this is going to
> make
> > that look like a picnic.
> > Some #'s, US uses 10 bbls for every bbl we
> > discover here and the world uses 2 bbls for every
> 1
> > bbl discovered. Not Good!!!! No wonder India and
These are facts born out by looking at
production rates.
Look at them yourself before say rude things.
Read the Econmist mag, FTimes, Wall Street Journal
amoung others for the real story. I suppose they are
lying.
Watch out for inflated reserve numbers from
OPEC as their production quotas are based on reserves
so they just raised them without any bassis in fact.
> China
> > are going EV.
> > All oil people know this and even the most
> > optimistic say it will happen in 2008, only 5
> years
> > away. It takes 10 years to change to the new
> energy
> > costs so we are screwed even if they start fixing
> it
> > now.
> > For more info read Hubbert's Peak or put it
> in
> > the web or World or US oil production to see the
> mess
> > we (Bush, congress) have made.
Bush and the Republican congress before him are
responsable for our present state of energy supplies.
That is a fact.
I personably don't care for either Repub or Dem
as they are both running our country in the ground.
I'm a pragmatist like Rep. Sen O. Snow and Ind.
Sen Jim Jeffords who are moderates. We need more of
them.
> > Price will settle out at about $3 to $5 a
> gallon
> > as that's the cost of biofuels which compete with
> it.
> > Either we switch to Renewable transport
> energy
> > now or more wars, recessions, depressions are in
> our
> > near future. Lucky for us we have EV's!!!!
We have very little oil left in the US. If
others don't want to sell us their last oil, what will
we do. Kill?
Anyone driving a personal vehicle getting less
than 35mpg is hurting our national + economic security
and that's a fact by taking what we can produce and
another 50% that we can count on from Canada, Mexico.
> > Please don't answer to the list,
> > jerry dycus
> --
> My Favorite Quotes:
> "God Bless America." - President George W. Bush
> "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer
> "From my cold dead hands!" - Charleton Heston, NRA
> President
> "Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!" - President
> Ronald Reagan
> "Words mean things." - Rush Limbaugh
These are not my quotes, they are Matt's.
Those who use patriotism for political gain
without any regard for it's impacts are the worse form
of demagoguery and anything but patriotic.
Let's stick to facts,
jerry dycus
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know the status of the e-cycle project?
http://www.ecycle.com
-Sam Harper
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have come across some no-name surplus 120v-13.8v DC-DC boards rated 5
amps. Can I parallel two of them to get 10 amps capacity, three to get 15,
etc?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Peter and all,
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Yeah! My Todd arrived today. A quick test on 110VAC indicates that it
> works too (always a good thing with Ebay purchases)
>
> >From Lee Hart's description, mine would appear to be the 75 Amp version.
> >14.75 inches long. Not bad for $25.!
Whoa, major score...good going! When Todd discontinued their first generation units
like
yours, and before other second generation DC friendly models were available to me, I
used to
search for the bigger 40 and 75 amp units at car stereo dealerships. You can still
find them
lurking behind in-store head unit and amplifier demo displays as the big DC supply
running
the setup. I used to explain to them all about the EVer's use for the Todd's and how
the new
models would no longer work on the DC battery packs of our cars, but the model 'they'
had
would...then, I'd tell them how the new models work fine in their application and I'd
ask
them, that if they gave me their power supply, I'd give them one of the new models,
only
smaller and more compact while running at the same output level. It helped, when I'd
show up
with my car stereoized EV all sparkling clean and rad looking, and either took the
store
manager for a ride or at least did a smoke'n burnoff for them! I got many good first
generation DC-DC Todds this way.
>
> > The very earliest models of these first generation series did not have the external
> > jumper buss that can allow the converter to switch output voltages, but after
> > those, all
> > the later ones did.
>
> Hmm, mine has large red and white terminals on it which I guess are the
> DC output. It also has a small terminal strip with two connectors that
> is unlabeled. Would this be the jumper buss you refer too? If so how
> do I use it? Short the two connections together to switch to voltages?
>
> Right now it has an unloaded output voltage of 13.7V and the jumper is
> not connected.
Yes, if you short the connectors, the output will rise by one volt to 14.7V, or about
14.5V
or so even loaded down at hefty outputs currents. In my EVs, I use an ice cube style
automotive relay, usually the black cube-shaped type that are used with car alarms,
and wire
it to leave the connection open when the ign. key is off so that the DC-DC floats the
backup
12V battery, but when you get in the car and turn on the ign., the relay fires and
closes
those connections to raise the 12V system to 14+ volts, just as did the original
alternator,
so lights are crisp and bright, wipers move swiftly, ventilation fans move lots of
air, and
turn signals snap on and off crisply.
Congrats on a great buy!
See Ya......John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
I know they have BIG problems to make working their controller and motor
together.
They don't deliver controler advertised even when you have pay for it !
instead you receive another mark controller...which again doesn't work with
this strange motor.(strange 40/60 duty cycle for the hall sensor,
problematic tiny inductance...)
Imho the ecycle will not be here for a while.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 5:55 PM
Subject: Status of E-Cycle?
> Does anyone know the status of the e-cycle project?
> http://www.ecycle.com
>
> -Sam Harper
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry John. Hope you get better. You don't look at all like yourself.
Lawrence Rhodes.
http://ovalshow.com/about/john.html
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sent one of my BLDC controls to Jan who
purchased an Ecycle motor but is still waiting
for the control (it's been over a year).
He could not get my control to work properly with
the Ecycle motor. My control works with 100% of the
3-phase BLDC Y connected motors I've tried it with,
even the real low resistance and inductance high
current motors.
Jan was supposed to visit Ecycle and pick up some
more motors and send one to me for testing.
If he does this I will report my findings back to the
list.
P.S. I'm not at all convinced Ecycles control
method makes any sense. They are using a buck
converter on the front end and a 3-phase trapezoid
control on the motor (PWMing the front end, not
the 3-phase bridge).
It's described here;
http://www.ecycle.com/brushless_motor_controllers.htm
or
http://www.ecycle.com/two%20stage%20explained.htm#Two-stage%20power%20conversion%20explained
--- Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I know they have BIG problems to make working their
> controller and motor
> together.
> They don't deliver controler advertised even when
> you have pay for it !
> instead you receive another mark controller...which
> again doesn't work with
> this strange motor.(strange 40/60 duty cycle for the
> hall sensor,
> problematic tiny inductance...)
> Imho the ecycle will not be here for a while.
>
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du
> volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 5:55 PM
> Subject: Status of E-Cycle?
>
>
> > Does anyone know the status of the e-cycle
> project?
> > http://www.ecycle.com
> >
> > -Sam Harper
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alex Karahalios wrote:
> The pre-scaler output of my EMeter is reading about 290V...
> Does anyone actually know how the pre-scaler is constructed?
Yes. I've dissected a 100v prescaler, and at least can tell you what was
in that one. View with fixed-width font:
_ _
+Battery____| | |_____/\/\_______/\/\______/\/\________E-meter pin 5
| L1 | R1 | R2 | R3 | (+Vsense)
| open | 105k | 11.5k | 270 |
|__/\/\_| 1% | 1% | 5% |
R4 _|_ _|_ \_|_ Q1
0 ohms C1 ___ C2 ___ /_\\ Siliconix
_ _ 1000pF | 0.1uF | | VP0610L
_| | |_ 1KV | 50v | |
| L2 | ceramic | ceramic | |
| open | | | |
-Battery__|__/\/\_|__________|__________|________|____E-meter pin 1
R5 (-Vsense)
0 ohms
The only functional parts are R1 and R2, which total up to 118k for a
100v prescaler, or 1057k for a 500v prescaler. Q1 is actually a MOSFET,
but is being used as a low-leakage zener diode to limit the max output
voltage to about 50v.
If your prescaler output is reading ~290v, most likely Q1 is blown. This
can happen if you connect the prescaler output to battery pack postive
by mistake.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Prescaler is a 10:1 resistive voltage divider. The one I built was
as follows:
340K 340K 340K 39.2K
+
o--------/\/\/\----+---/\/\/\/----+----/\/\/\/\---+----/\/\/\/\------
+-----o +
| | |
|
Input __|__ __|__ \_|_ 1N4757
__|__ Output
80 - 300V _____ 0.01uF _____ 0.01uF ^ \ 51V
0.01uF _____ 8 - 30V
| 250V | 250V /_\ 1/2W
250V |
| | | 5%
|
-
0------------------+--------------+---------------+------------------
+-----o -
All resistors are 1/4W 1%.
You will have to get higher voltage caps as my battery pack is only
114V.
You may need to adjust the 39.2K resistor to calibrate the output for
your emeter. I used a 50k pot in place of the 39.2k resistor and after
calibrating the circuit with my emeter, I removed the pot, measured it
and installed the closest 1% resistor.
You need to use multiple resistors as most resistors have a max
voltage spec of 250V and the resistance is actually voltage dependent!
The input resistance of both of my emeters is about 100K ohms.
I also run my emeter off of the high voltage sense leads with a small
300v to 24V DC/DC converter, so I
only have 4 leads going to the emeter, 2 voltage sense wires, and 2
current sense wires.
Stan
75 Porsche 914 (9", 114V, US230, Curtis 1221C)
On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 08:11 PM, Alex Karahalios wrote:
The pre-scaler output of my EMeter is reading about 290V. If I
understand it right, it should actually be reading 32V for a pack
voltage of 320V. The problem is the pre-scaler is located in the
battery compartment which takes a half day to remove.
Does anyone actually know how the pre-scaler is constructed? I
remember seeing a small black thing (about 1/2"x 2") in the battery
compartment. After finding out that the 0-500V pre-scaler costs $85,
I'm puzzled as to what's inside it? I'm concerned since it may be
causing some ground fault problems in my car. Knowing the schematic
would be helpful.
Alex Karahalios
--- End Message ---
