EV Digest 2850
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Small 2 speed (was Starting torque)
by "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 1958 Chevy Truck Conversion
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Small 2 speed (was Starting torque)
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 1958 Chevy Truck Conversion
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Crimp connectors
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: 1958 Chevy Truck Conversion
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Small 2 speed (was Starting torque)
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Starting Torque
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Study Suggests Fuel Cell Use Could Increase Damage to the Ozone Layer
by Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 160V, 600A DC rated circuit breaker (eBay)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Small 2 speed (was Starting torque)
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Crimp connectors
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Evercel Nickel-Zinc
by "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Need US 2200's
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC to AC
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Crimp connectors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Lowest frequency (was Re: AC vs DC)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Crimp connectors
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DC to AC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) San Francisco George Moscone Convention Center update on Solar energy
project
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 1958 Chevy Truck Conversion
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: A new EV begins
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Ampabout
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: A new EV begins
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Free Tech Paper "Do It Right the First Time"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Need US 2200's
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Another MagneCharger
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
How about a torque-convertor for a go-kart. These are basically a
simple CVT transmission, much like the ones used on snowmobiles.
My MTD lawn tractor uses one also.
Granted they are optimized for ICE's but you can change the way
they "shift" by altering the spring tensions.
I don't know about efficiency. They probably suck.
example. <http://www.gokartsupply.com/4044seri.htm>
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Thomasson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:47 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: Starting torque
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:17 PM
>Subject: Re: Starting torque
>
>
>> > If anyone knows where I can get a small two speed
transmission let
>> > me
>know.
>>
>> Hmm, how about a simple automatic transmission? Uses chain
drive. Low
>> gear uses a sprocket with a one-way overrunning clutch, high
gear uses
>> a Centrifugal Clutch like a go-kart uses.
>>
>> Starts out with low gear engaged and when motor RPMs hit about
2k the
>> centrifugal clutch starts to kick in and overruns low gear.
>>
>> Cheap overrunning sprokets are available at your local bike
store.
>> They use them on BMX style bikes, they are designed to fit
something
>> like a 1" keyed shaft.
>>
>>
>
>This is an interesting idea. Let me know if what I describe
below is the
>concept you are suggesting:.
>
>Several configurations come to mind.
>
>1. Get a motor with a long enough shaft to mount both the one-
way clutch
>(OC) and the centrifugal clutch (CC) and run two rear sprockets
[message truncated]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael,
I disagree with you, its not that you "would" need more powerful batteries,
but that you would need a more powerful motor which would draw from your
batteries more, so this would lead to less range and eventually additional
batteries to compensate for the lack of range due to added draw.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The early 50cc motorbikes used a version of this with 2 of these and 2
chains and 2 freewheeling cogs so that one started the bike and when
sufficient revs were attained the second one overrode the first causing a
gear shift due to the different ratio.
These types of clutches are probably power hungry but I can see no reason
you couldn't makes a manual shifting unit using this same principal attached
to the shift principle of a standard motor bike gear box, where an internal
device in the shaft connects the gears.
Of course this could probably be achieved just as easily using 2 gears from
the standard motor bike gearbox and making a smaller case for it.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hills wrote:
>
> Chris and Peter both gave some of the tradeoffs about using a transmission
> or not and both said that without a transmission you would need more
> powerful batteries.
>
> Is that really true? Maybe slightly, but I think for the most part, no.
>
> Here's my reasoning:
...
> The actual power needed from the batteries could be a bit higher because
> the motor and controller will probably be a bit less efficient trying to put
> out
> that much power at low RPM.
10,000 A at 10V is also the same power, but there is no such a battery
handling this current. And to get decent acceleration on the 4th
gear you need giant torque, i.e. giant current, not necessarily power.
I'm sure you'll get few replies from experts on this.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I can't say for sure about where you live, but in my town 1/2 the
hardware stores (2 out of 4) carry terminals in those sizes. Also some
auto parts stores, and sometimes Radio Shack.
On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 13:22, John Lussmyer wrote:
> I asked a couple days ago about which connectors to use, and a couple
> people told me that I'll probably need some ring crimp connectors in the
> 4,6, or 8 ga size.
>
> WHERE can I find things in these sizes? (Remember, I don't live near a
> city, so nobody near me carries them.)
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 15:31, Michael Hills wrote:
> Chris and Peter both gave some of the tradeoffs about using a transmission
> or not and both said that without a transmission you would need more
> powerful batteries.
>
> Is that really true? Maybe slightly, but I think for the most part, no.
>
> Here's my reasoning:
>
> If you want the same acceleration performance, you will need higher motor
> currents without a transmission, but the voltage will be lower because the
> motor is spinning slower. Ignoring inefficiencies for a minute, the actual
> power required to accelerate a car at a certain rate over a certain speed
> range is fixed. All of that power is coming from the batteries and should
> be roughly the the same, with or without a transmission.
>
Ahh, but we are talking about a "Performance Vehicle" people who drive
performance vehicles tend to drive them as performance vehicles (that's
the point right?)
Normal EVs come to a hill and need to slow down and shift down because
they are power limited, but not our performance vehicle. The motor and
controller are capable of maintaining speed up the hill, but this takes
a LOT of power and the power has to come from the batteries.
Neat piece of trivia. With a fixed ratio between the wheels and the
motor is requires virtually the same torque to climb a hill quickly as
it does slowly. There is slightly more torque required to overcome the
higher aerodynamic drag, but the torque required to climb the hill
dominates and that stays the same.
So, in EVs, torque = motor amps. SO your motor amps stay the same
regardless, the only thing that changes is motor volts. Work it
backward through the drive system and this means that climbing fast
requires more battery amps, but has no effect on motor amps and therefor
motor/controller rating.
Bottom line, you need a more powerful battery.
> the efficiency during acceleration). Anyway, I don't have any good data on
> the difference in motor efficiency, but it seems to me the only time that
> there
> would be a really large difference in efficiency would be at really low
> RPMs.
RPMs don't matter as much as current does. A typical series wound motor
efficiency sucks at high currents, it can easily drop below 50% (from up
near 90%)
> I think the impression of a need for better batteries comes from the
> likelihood
> that those going to the effort to build an EV without a transmission are
> also
> willing to pay for better performance, so they get higher power batteries.
> A
Like I said, no point in building a performance vehicle that doesn't
perform. High performance requires lots of power, i.e. powerful
batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How about a torque-convertor for a go-kart. These are basically a
> simple CVT transmission, much like the ones used on snowmobiles.
> My MTD lawn tractor uses one also.
>
Cheap CVTs have crappy efficiency. Something like 50-60%.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What it comes down to is you buy a transmission either way. One is a
giant buck converter with high current silicon. The other is a
transmission with multiple ratios. EV controllers already ARE giant buck
converters (for DC motors), so you need an extra-giant :-) buck
converter. And the end of the motor shaft needs to not twist off. And
there is the little bit about saturation for the motor at too high a
current, melting the brish rig, burning the insulation. The analog to
this in the transmission is breaking/ spalling /brinelling gear teeth
from too high a torque. Until you reach that point, the efficiency of
that gearbox is climbing, though.
So does your transmission come from Eaton, or International Rectifier?
Most conversions have a free transmission and pay for the controller,
not the other way around.
I am a fan of the multi-speed transmission, as it allows you to not
explore the ugly edges of the motor's performance envelope. You already
need some multiplication and a differential so why not another gear pair
or two. When the vehicle has a high power to mass ratio, then this is
less critical, so you can go either way. In my opinion...
Seth
PS my bicycle "motor" only has ~125 watts (my legs) but it has 21
speeds. I don't stand on the pedals unless I have to. That torque hurts
after a while:)
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 15:31, Michael Hills wrote:
> > Chris and Peter both gave some of the tradeoffs about using a transmission
> > or not and both said that without a transmission you would need more
> > powerful batteries.
> >
> > Is that really true? Maybe slightly, but I think for the most part, no.
> >
> > Here's my reasoning:
> >
> > If you want the same acceleration performance, you will need higher motor
> > currents without a transmission, but the voltage will be lower because the
> > motor is spinning slower. Ignoring inefficiencies for a minute, the actual
> > power required to accelerate a car at a certain rate over a certain speed
> > range is fixed. All of that power is coming from the batteries and should
> > be roughly the the same, with or without a transmission.
> >
>
> Ahh, but we are talking about a "Performance Vehicle" people who drive
> performance vehicles tend to drive them as performance vehicles (that's
> the point right?)
>
> Normal EVs come to a hill and need to slow down and shift down because
> they are power limited, but not our performance vehicle. The motor and
> controller are capable of maintaining speed up the hill, but this takes
> a LOT of power and the power has to come from the batteries.
>
> Neat piece of trivia. With a fixed ratio between the wheels and the
> motor is requires virtually the same torque to climb a hill quickly as
> it does slowly. There is slightly more torque required to overcome the
> higher aerodynamic drag, but the torque required to climb the hill
> dominates and that stays the same.
> So, in EVs, torque = motor amps. SO your motor amps stay the same
> regardless, the only thing that changes is motor volts. Work it
> backward through the drive system and this means that climbing fast
> requires more battery amps, but has no effect on motor amps and therefor
> motor/controller rating.
>
> Bottom line, you need a more powerful battery.
>
> > the efficiency during acceleration). Anyway, I don't have any good data on
> > the difference in motor efficiency, but it seems to me the only time that
> > there
> > would be a really large difference in efficiency would be at really low
> > RPMs.
>
> RPMs don't matter as much as current does. A typical series wound motor
> efficiency sucks at high currents, it can easily drop below 50% (from up
> near 90%)
>
> > I think the impression of a need for better batteries comes from the
> > likelihood
> > that those going to the effort to build an EV without a transmission are
> > also
> > willing to pay for better performance, so they get higher power batteries.
> > A
>
> Like I said, no point in building a performance vehicle that doesn't
> perform. High performance requires lots of power, i.e. powerful
> batteries.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hum. Better bring back the EV-1s and Rav-4s
http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=business&cat=alternative_energy
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26215&item=2536986182
ends about 06/16/03
Seth
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have two RC cars that use this method (gears). The trick is finding a
one-way bearing for the first gear so that it can free-wheel when the
second kicks in. They put the seconds clutch on the drive gear rather then
the engine gear to avoid slipping as the engine slows as second engages.
I am not sure of the efficiency, but people are reluctant to have three
gears due to the losses.
At 06:59 PM 6/12/2003, you wrote:
The early 50cc motorbikes used a version of this with 2 of these and 2
chains and 2 freewheeling cogs so that one started the bike and when
sufficient revs were attained the second one overrode the first causing a
gear shift due to the different ratio.
These types of clutches are probably power hungry but I can see no reason
you couldn't makes a manual shifting unit using this same principal attached
to the shift principle of a standard motor bike gear box, where an internal
device in the shaft connects the gears.
Of course this could probably be achieved just as easily using 2 gears from
the standard motor bike gearbox and making a smaller case for it.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or if you don't live near a city, try KTA Services (909) 949-7914 or
probably www.evparts.com.
At 07:58 PM 6/12/2003, you wrote:
Well I can't say for sure about where you live, but in my town 1/2 the
hardware stores (2 out of 4) carry terminals in those sizes. Also some
auto parts stores, and sometimes Radio Shack.
On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 13:22, John Lussmyer wrote:
> I asked a couple days ago about which connectors to use, and a couple
> people told me that I'll probably need some ring crimp connectors in the
> 4,6, or 8 ga size.
>
> WHERE can I find things in these sizes? (Remember, I don't live near a
> city, so nobody near me carries them.)
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This sounds terrific. I live in a cool climate (on Lake Michigan in
Wisconsin) and I'll just be sure to maximize the cooling system. Time to
call for a quote...
-Tom
> You can use bulk charge with a timed hold. It has worked for Evercells.
> electriccabenergy.com should also beable to help since they import for
> Evercell.
>
> Heat is a issuse, plan on cooling the cells in the hot weather. In cold,
> forget them, they love it.
>
> I have 3 plus Evercell clients using my PFC chargers.
> It works and rather well also.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see your domain is charlotte.nc.us
so your USbattery dealer is:
Classic Auto Supply
200 West 24th. St.
Charlotte NC 28206
(704) 331-0695
Fax (704) 250-3596
According to the http://usbattery.com site, US2200
specs are:
115 [EMAIL PROTECTED] L: 10-1/4", W: 7-1/8", H: 11-1/8", 63lbs
Lee is right that a trainer pack would get you by.
A typical 'golf cart' battery from a non-
USbattery or Trojan manufacturer is a 105 to 108
(Minutes @ 75 Amp) battery, and what you wanted
was a US2200 which is a 115 (Minutes @ 75 Amp).
So, you will get ~10% less range using a
generic 'golf cart' battery. Make sure the
battery's POSTs fit your cables.
So if you can get a battery that fits, connects,
and the price is right, then its a plan.
P.S. -If it were my EV, and I had as good a
USbattery dealer as I have here, I would move
up to US-125s. A little electrolyte starved, but
the best range bang for the buck in your size.
: sent via Redhat9 Linux:
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what about just spinning a ac motor with a dc motor . I've heard that if you
spin a plane ac motor faster that its spins with no load it will pump amps
back into the grid . could a small 60 cycle sine wave inverter be hooked to
the out up of a large say 5 hp ac 60 cycle motors then spin the motor with
motor like a ADC 6.7
Now picture a rock band being powered by this .;-)
Jon who is driving my Mitsubishi truck works for a radio station promotor
and has ask me about using his ev to supply the ac
at different events . It's not hard to see how much better, any event
would be with out a gas generator going in the back ground . With the high
cost of running a generator I may be able to drive my truck to a job site
and supply power to all the builders who would love not to listen to a
generator running all day. This may be an untapped market .
one big problem though . People are going to think your charging those
batteries .
rock star " Ya man it [EMAIL PROTECTED] far out dude, power for no where , runs the
hole
band , yayaya , there's the dude now "
reporter " Sir are you the owner of this device that's powering this out
side remote rock concert.
Jon " its not a device it's an electric truck much like the one's people
drove 100 years ago"
reporter " Then whets this THING running in the back?"
Jon " a motor/generator that converts the 120 dc in my truck to 120 ac to
run all the equment , excp the lights I run them on dc.
reporter " So your charging the truck with that also!"
Jon "no"
reporter" Then if you left it running you could drive forever!!"
Jon "No"
reporter " are the oil company's threading you"
Jon to him self , I got to hide this thing.
Jon has been asking me this but I haven't given it a lot of though, I see
crews all day building houses with gen's going ,next time I'm out cutting
grass /tomorrow :-( I'll ask what would it be worth to have all the
120 ac you need on the job with know noise ..
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: DC to AC
> Trace Engineering makes reliable inverters, not sure about 50 hertz
though.
> Check their websight traceengineering.com Also I was thinking of doing
this
> for a well pump 240vac/60 hertz at 6A and was thinking of using the peak
> voltage 336V at 70.7% duty cycle to simulate the area of a sine but be
able
> to direct drive with a flash MC68HC908QY4 by Mot and IR2111 high side fet
> drivers by IR. Still a fair amount of work.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: DC to AC
>
>
> > Wouldn't this be fairly easy to build? Assuming you can get by with a
> > modified sinewave (aka modified square wave) inverter. All you'd need
> > is an H-bridge and a transformer to step up the voltage. Well, that
> > and something to drive the H-bridge, but that should be fairly simple.
> >
> > On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 04:32, Mark Fowler wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm looking for an inverter that takes my DC pack voltage (144V DC)
and
> turns it into 240V 50Hz AC (Australian mains current).
> > > The closest I've been able to find is combining a DC/DC (144V -> 12V)
> with a 12V to 240V inverter.
> > > I want to avoid massive 12V currents (and massive DC/DC) to get a
decent
> amount of power from the inverter.
> > >
> > > Does such a beast exist?
> > > What sort of price?
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > --
> > EVDL
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> I asked a couple days ago about which connectors to use, and a couple
> people told me that I'll probably need some ring crimp connectors in the
> 4,6, or 8 ga size.
>
> WHERE can I find things in these sizes? (Remember, I don't live near a
> city, so nobody near me carries them.)
Are you sure? Even my local Ace Hardware and Autozone stores carry them.
The selection is limited, though.
All the major electronics distributors carry them; Digikey, Mouser, etc.
For my temperature sensors I'm using terminals I got from Waytek
(www.waytekwire.com, 800-328-2724). They are tinned copper "standard
eyelet" terminals, 5/16" bolt hole, #6 wire, #36472, $0.27 each.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Under these conditions you have DC flowing in the motor windings.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> It's not DC, it's PWM pulses. Even though they're in one direction
> (DC in that sense), the most powered phase gets continuously less than
> 100% duty, perhaps at stall even less than 30%, so it won't overheat.
Think a little more about it. The motor is stalled (brushless DC, or
synchronous AC), or rotating slowly backwards (if an induction motor).
The "correct" frequency to apply to the stator windings is 0 Hz. To get
high torque, you need high current. Since voltage is roughly
proportional to rpm, and rpm is zero, the applied voltage is nearly
zero. So, the inverter must apply a high DC current at very low voltage.
The inverter is really just six PWM controllers; each one works like the
one PWM controller for driving a DC motor. To deliver high current at
low voltage, it switches at a very low duty cycle. The transistor
switches on; the current ramps up; the transistor switches off, the
current ramps down. The motor winding's inductance acts as a filter to
limit the rate of change in current.
Suppose you want to apply 100amps at 3v to the winding with a 300v
battery pack. That takes a 3v/300v = 1% duty cycle. You want to switch
at 15 KHz, so it is inaudible. The on-time is thus 1% of 1/15KHz = 0.66
microseconds. If you're using IGBTs, they can't turn on and off that
fast; they spend the first 0.33us starting to turn on, and the last
0.33us turning back off. Your switching losses are huge, because it is
in its linear region throughout this interval.
If the motor winding isn't saturated, its inductance limits the rate of
rise of current. For example, suppose the motor has 100uH of inductance.
V = L x di/dt. We apply 300v for 0.66us; the current rise is di = V x dt
/ L = 300v x 0.66us / 100uH = 2 amps. So, to get 100a average, the
current is really ramping up from 99a to 101a during the on-time, and
ramping down from 101a to 99a during the off time. That's essentially
DC.
But, DC tends to saturate the iron. When this happens, the inductance
fall drastically. Suppose it falls to 1uH. Now instead of 2a ripple, we
have 200a of ripple! The current is rising from 0 to 200a during each
on-time, and falling from 200a to 0 in each off-time. In effect, the
inverter has lost control of the current. It can't produce a short
enough on-time to limit current, at a time when its transistors are
being hit with unusually high switching losses.
> I can roll backwards with shaft speed -1 RPM all day long, the
> inverter (just one phase's IGBT's really) will be cooler than at
> high speed.
I'll bet what the inverter software does is to deliberately raise the
frequency and voltage, but reduce the stator current. The inverter
transistors and stator windings now run cooler, but the motor is now
running at high slip, and the rotor windings are getting hot.
> The question was - to have smooth transition from neg to pos
> freq it must be able to generate <1Hz freq, infinitely close to 0.
No; remember that with an induction motor, there are MANY frequencies
and voltages that will produce the same torque and rpm! One is the most
efficient from the motor's perspective, but that may NOT be the most
efficient from the inverter's perspective!
> Yet the spec says 0.7 Hz min. Any clues?
I think induction motor inverter designers try to avoid the 0 frequency
(DC output) case. It is dangerous to the inverter and motor, and you
don't need it to produce a smooth transition thru 0 rpm.
Brushless DC and PM synchronous motor designers don't have this luxury
-- they *must* generate 0 frequency to get torque at 0 rpm.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:12 PM 6/12/2003 -0700, Lee Hart wrote:
Are you sure? Even my local Ace Hardware and Autozone stores carry them.
The selection is limited, though.
8 miles to the ACE, smallish store, few terminals.
Rat Shack parts/hobbiest corner isn't much bigger than a closet, even
fewer...
I'll probably have to go to the mainland to find something. (Or maybe at
NAPA 30 miles north of me.)
All the major electronics distributors carry them; Digikey, Mouser, etc.
For my temperature sensors I'm using terminals I got from Waytek
(www.waytekwire.com, 800-328-2724). They are tinned copper "standard
eyelet" terminals, 5/16" bolt hole, #6 wire, #36472, $0.27 each.
Thanks, I may try those.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> What about just spinning an AC motor with a DC motor? I've heard
> that if you spin a plane ac motor faster that its spins with no
> load it will pump amps back into the grid.
Yes, that works for any normal induction motor. However, it won't
generate AC unless AC is already present from some other source.
If there is no other source of AC to get it started, then you need to
connect a big set of AC-rated capacitors across the induction motor.The
capacitors insure that the motor sees a capacitive load, which is
necessary to get current to flow to induce current in the rotor so it
will generate power.
Sometime, you also have to pre-charge these capacitors from some DC
source, spin up the induction motor, and THEN connect the charged
capacitors. This puts a pulse of current into the windings to get it
started.
> Could a small 60 cycle sine wave inverter be hooked to the output
> of a large say 5 hp AC 60 cycle motor, then spin the motor with
> a DC motor like an ADC 6.7"?
That's an interesting way to provide the AC to get the induction
generator started. It would work, I think, except that once the
induction motor was generating power, the inverter might get very upset
with power being pushed back into it (bang!).
There is another very interesting device for creating AC from DC (or
vice versa) -- the rotary converter. This is a single motor with both AC
and DC windings on it. Under the right conditions, they are extremely
efficient and deliver a near perfect sinewave. The "right conditions"
are a battery pack that just happens to have the same voltage as the
peak of the AC waveform you are going to generate (160vdc for 120vac,
320vdc for 240vac, etc.), and a PM or shunt motor that just happens to
run at the right rpm with this voltage ("right rpm" meaning 3600 rpm for
a 2-pole motor, 1800 rpm for a 4-pole, etc.).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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--- Begin Message ---
San Francisco George Moscone Convention Center update on Solar energy
project
Being an electric car driver in San Francisco that has access to the
Avcon network in the City I have often wondered when the City will do
the voters will to start adding 10 mega-watts of Solar electric
generation.
Several phone calls later I have this to report.
Many thanks to Nick Carter and Adam Browning of VoteSolar.org for the
leads.
I have not yet gotten reply from Power Light Corporation regarding the
SF project.
Let me note my inquires were welcomed buy Fred Schwartz of the San
Francisco Public Utilities Commission.
Its been well over a year since the Hundred million dollar bond voter
approved measure passed but the permits were finally completed and
approved last Monday to start the Solar project for the George Moscone
Convention Center at a cost of about 4.5 million with a 2.25 million
State buy down. The actual start date date will now depend on the
Convention Centers schedule as events come and go. This has been coupled
with Energy Audits of the facility. Let me detract for a moment and
share one neat improvement is an ongoing conversion of existing lighting
fixtures that have greatly improved the efficiency of each lighting
fixture, saving 700 watts each with same light output. My concern with
the City is when is the Solar Generation is going to get done on this
first phase. It turns out the San Francisco PUC has been handling this
with as much bureaucratic zeal as one could expect but to their credit
have made it this far. In my interest to cover the story my PUC contact
was not interested in my wanting to document and particularly photograph
the project as they are going to do this themselves and video as well
which I said was great and would like access to these materials. This is
a very high profile project and a lot of public attention will be
focused on this as the work starts.
That all I have for now,
Danny Ames
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>
> Most people use a transmission in conversions because it's there (free).
> Starting from scratch, you can get the same result using no transmission
> with a high-amp controller and batteries. Or with two motors and
> series-parallel switching. I personally think the new Zilla controllers
> with automatic series-parallel switching will become very popular with
> trans-less EVs.
>
> Chris
Or with the tranny , I hope they write about it. If its heavy than it will
need all that power . I've never been in a sparrow but at 1300 lbs 156v ,I
would have though it would have very very fast , I'm wondering if its a lot
of lose in the belt .
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--- Begin Message ---
A new EV begins
Great new Garry
> Because of the toer value I looked around and a few days later located a
non
> working forklift complete minus batteries and went and paid $600 for it,
> along with its charger.
>
> Off down to my used battery supplier and got a dozen 6 volt sealed deep
> cycles the same as the 8 I had for the toer for $10 each.
What do new one's run there?
> The Suzuki posed another problem in that its diff ratio is 6 to 1 and the
> motor only runs to 1750 rpm meaning without counter gearing it would only
do
> 25 kph and I wasn't keen to gear up and lose power to the added friction
> etc.
This may be good as you could up the voltage and up the rpm . 1750 sounds
slow so there may be lots of room.
> I was given a 1986 Mitsubishi station wagon without a motor that had also
> become a casualty of the building renovations and the lack of space this
was
> causing.
Is this the car your doing?
> Last weekend I spent Saturday and Sunday making the adapter and mounts to
> connect the motor to the gearbox.
no easy feat . how did you line them up ? are you keeping the fly wheel?
.
>
> Off out to the workshop I went and connected power and hey presto a new EV
> was born.
sounds like an EV grin sett'en in. :-)
> forklift was designed to use the motor in reverse for braking and while
> overdriving the motor forward will recharge the batteries, will this too
> recharge the batteries if it is running in reverse ?
>
I would think so /just a guess .
Good for you on getting you ev on the road , will be looking for pic's in
album and info on amp draw at 30 mph ect
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
One of my San Jose EAA members, Don, questions me each time
after a http://geocities.com/sjeaa meeting. He is our
battery-exchange guy and keenly interested in batteries. He
feared that my switch from Trojan T145s to USBattery
US-145s would show a marked reduction in performance and
pack life.
Its been about a year since my pack change. As previously
POSTed, my local USBattery rep was quick to exchange the
four batteries I found a few months ago that were weaker
than the rest. Those four are fully broken in now.
I decided to fully charge my pack, and do a complete
equalization. Some chargers, like the Zivan, do a timed
equalization (only for a few hours). I was told that this
approach works if you let the Zivan do a fully recharge each
time you charge. I figured I would equalize for a much
longer time to get my pack the way I wanted.
I set my PFC-50 to 3 amps, and let it gently push amps into
my pack for the night. I checked and it used a little water,
but nothing serious. At that low a current, the electrolyte
was well churned, and I felt all cells were where I wanted
them to be. Some will say this was over kill, I wanted to
make sure all cells were fully charged and equalized,
before I did a range test on my pack.
To burn up some amps, I headed South on Hwy 101 on a known
route to Cupertino. Maintaining 55 mph was an easy 75 amps
with a surface voltage of 128 VDC. This round trip not only
let me feel the pack's performance, but bring my amp hours
down close to the pack's capacity.
To and on the return trip all was well. As I approached my
Hwy exit, I was only 80 ahs down out of a 100+ ah pack. At
55 mph, 100 amp draw, my surface voltage was reading 123 VDC
(this is normal). I still had 20 ahs to use up, so I passed
my regular Hwy exit, and took a little longer route.
On my way home, I have a long stretch of road I can use to
test my pack when it is depleted. My cruising control Emeter
showed two yellow leds (meaning the pack was spent) and read
100 ahs down. This is usually my target when I go on long
trips. I do not want to go to a deeper discharge than 100
ahs. This leaves me a margin of capacity left over (like
still having a gallon left in the tank though the gauge
reads empty.
Now for the test. I maintained a steady speed of 35 mph
drawing 100 amps, with a pack surface voltage of 116 VDC.
There was still plenty of power left to accellerate if I
wanted.
This tells me I have a healthy pack. I shot an email off to
Don letting him know not to be overly concerned of US
batteries.
This also means, if the job market has me give up and I
move to South, I will have a healthy pack to run around
in the desert.
IMHO: Trojan batteries cost a little more than US Batteries.
But Trojan batteries perform and last a little more than US
Batteries. It has been my experience that Trojan reps are
too fat on business to care for about their customers.
Whereas US Battery reps go out of their way for their EV
customers.
With those factors in mind, and with my experience with a
108 VDC pack of US-125s in the Escort EV I sold, and this
one year old 132 VDC US-145 pack in my Blazer EV, I feel
USbatteries are the better deal.
:-zzz
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
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Hi
New batteries here are around the $175 mark.
Yes 1750 rpm seems a bit slow and the car is a bit slow accordingly, but
till ive cycled the batteries a few times I wont know how good or bad it
really is.
Doesn't help dragging around a 1200 kg car either.
Yep mitsi station wagon 1986 2.6 liter, all 1200 kgs of it.
Tell me about it I wasn't expecting to get it as good as I did especially
the first time but it fitted a treat first time.
No clutch or flywheel and as I anticipated it changes gears smoothly both up
and down like this with no grinding, except when you go for reverse when you
are not fully stopped.
Amp draw at speed etc will be available soon but its a bit rough to be
posting pictures of on the album and I already expect that this system will
go into something lighter before it becomes a nice car again.
I was impressed that it got up our local hill though which is about 30
degrees.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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Try 1-800-522-0945 in Evans Georgia Tom Bradham is where I got mine.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:12 AM
Subject: Need US 2200's
> Hi all,
>
> I'm in the process of rebuilding the rear bat box in my Henney. Once that
is
> done (today or tomorrow I Hope) I can replace all the batteries.
>
> I have had NO luck in finding batteries locally for what seems to be a
fair
> price. Most of the Golf Cart shops around here only stock Trojans, (which
are
> not quite the right size). I did FINALLY find a shop that carries
us-batteries,
> but they want $65.00 each plus tax.
>
> That sounds high to me as I seem to recall people on list saying that they
are
> getting those, or batteries like those, for about $50.00 each.
>
> I tried calling US battery directly, but they just give me the name of a
"local
> distributer" who doesn't seem to want to return my calls.
>
> So, anyone know what I have to do to get 12 US battery 2200's at a good
price (I
> am told that Interstate U-2200 batts are the same battery, just
re-branded, so
> that will work as well).
>
> Thanks,
>
> James
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Charlie Garlow has one at his house in Silver Spring for his Chevy S10E
pickup. Large paddle inductive just like you need. Anytime you go down
that way and may need to use it, give him a call. I don't think he'd mind
at all. And if he needs to head north, you can return the favor.
He'll be at the Power of DC on the 29th with his truck. Are you going? If
so, see you there.
Dave Davidson
Glen Burnie, Maryland
1993 Dodge TEVan
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Another MagneCharger
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:08:27 -0400
I just got another MagneCharger. YAAY!!!!
Now I can install this one at my parent's house in Timonium MD and have a
place to flash charge. With a range now of 50 miles and a 80% charge time
of
2 hours I can go a *lot* more places with my Prizm!
Now to put one in Silver Spring MD somewhere :-)
Chris
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