EV Digest 2853
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ampabout
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Troubleshooting help needed!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ampabout
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A new EV begins
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Amps and amp hours
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: San Francisco George Moscone Convention Center update on Solar energy project
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 1958 Chevy Truck Conversion
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Amps and amp hours
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Ampabout
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Basic STAMP and PIC book recommendations?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: A new EV begins
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) GEM Owner
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EL Chopper
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) air conditioning
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Wheelmotors
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Basic STAMP and PIC book recommendations?
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Wheelmotors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Independent Drive System
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Independent Drive System
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) S-10 conversion advise
by Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: S-10 conversion advise
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: air conditioning
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Newbie question
by "Orange Juice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Independent Drive System
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Why did the Optimas explode?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Li Ion Series Resistance
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Drag racing?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) helper controller
by Ben Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Starting torque
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Starting torque
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 13 Jun 2003 at 12:55, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I see these new nEV users as typical. Not EV knowledgeable
> at all. They had no idea where the batteries are and that
> their vehicle needs maintenance.
Ah. I see nothing has changed since the 1980s. No lessons learned.
The good news, sort of, is that in a few years this EV should be parked and
gathering dust, its third set of batteries depreciated. Then it'll be ready
for a nice, low bid from an EV hobbyist who will give it a good home -- just
as we did with the last generation of institutional EVs in the 1980s.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- Begin Message ---
I opened a motor brush lead once similar to this.
Check the continuity of the motor.
If the motor is an open circuit, it will draw no current.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 1:02 PM
Subject: Troubleshooting help needed!
> Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
> Mark Dodrill
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <
Great post , I like all the numbers as them help with comparing and give a
"feel" of what's happening .
55mph at 75 amps, sounds like a 60 mile trip is know big deal for you :-)
. This may sound funny but I'd rather go to a little mom and pop store and
pay a little more that go to wallmart . Go US batterie go .
> To burn up some amps, I headed South on Hwy 101 on a known
> route to Cupertino. Maintaining 55 mph was an easy 75 amps
> with a surface voltage of 128 VDC. This round trip not only
> let me feel the pack's performance, but bring my amp hours
> down close to the pack's capacity.
>
> To and on the return trip all was well. As I approached my
> Hwy exit, I was only 80 ahs down out of a 100+ ah pack. At
> 55 mph, 100 amp draw, my surface voltage was reading 123 VDC
> (this is normal). I still had 20 ahs to use up, so I passed
> my regular Hwy exit, and took a little longer route.
>
> On my way home, I have a long stretch of road I can use to
> test my pack when it is depleted. My cruising control Emeter
> showed two yellow leds (meaning the pack was spent) and read
> 100 ahs down. This is usually my target when I go on long
> trips. I do not want to go to a deeper discharge than 100
> ahs. This leaves me a margin of capacity left over (like
> still having a gallon left in the tank though the gauge
> reads empty.
>
> Now for the test. I maintained a steady speed of 35 mph
> drawing 100 amps, with a pack surface voltage of 116 VDC.
> There was still plenty of power left to accellerate if I
> wanted.
>
> This tells me I have a healthy pack. I shot an email off to
> Don letting him know not to be overly concerned of US
> batteries.
>
> This also means, if the job market has me give up and I
> move to South, I will have a healthy pack to run around
> in the desert.
>
> IMHO: Trojan batteries cost a little more than US Batteries.
> But Trojan batteries perform and last a little more than US
> Batteries. It has been my experience that Trojan reps are
> too fat on business to care for about their customers.
> Whereas US Battery reps go out of their way for their EV
> customers.
>
> With those factors in mind, and with my experience with a
> 108 VDC pack of US-125s in the Escort EV I sold, and this
> one year old 132 VDC US-145 pack in my Blazer EV, I feel
> USbatteries are the better deal.
>
> :-zzz
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hi
>
> New batteries here are around the $175 mark.
is that for one 6v golf cart batterie? Makes me feel lucky at $50 a bat.
Is the mim wage $25/ hour??
> Yes 1750 rpm seems a bit slow and the car is a bit slow accordingly, but
> till ive cycled the batteries a few times I wont know how good or bad it
> really is.
>
> Doesn't help dragging around a 1200 kg car either.
>
> Yep mitsi station wagon 1986 2.6 liter, all 1200 kgs of it.
>
> Tell me about it I wasn't expecting to get it as good as I did especially
> the first time but it fitted a treat first time.
> No clutch or flywheel and as I anticipated it changes gears smoothly both
up
> and down like this with no grinding, except when you go for reverse when
you
> are not fully stopped.
I am really on the fence about the clutch. It's a lot of weight flying
around , I don't have one on my work truck and it dose fine.
I have frogotten the voltage your using .
>
> Amp draw at speed etc will be available soon but its a bit rough to be
> posting pictures of on the album and I already expect that this system
will
> go into something lighter before it becomes a nice car again.
>
> I was impressed that it got up our local hill though which is about 30
> degrees.
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
>
>
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You got it right . That's a nice idea with the sharing chargers , wish there
were that many EV's were I'm at . I'm going to set up a charging station
(120 /240 and an air pump) in my front yard and would love to come home and
see an EV charging there (that wasn't mine) . I need to make a 100 mile trip
from Fort Pierce to Hollowood near Mimia. Would rather read a book and
charge 1/2 way than use a gen. also your charging at 18 amps is like me
(120volts golfcarters) charging at 45 amps . Very nice for those long trips.
SteveClunn
> Just trying to get this straight:
>
> Amps is the instantaneous rate of current flow into or out of a circuit
> element
> Amp hours is the *amount* of current being supplied to or taken from in a
> circuit element.
>
> Thus the statement "I can charge the car at a rate of 18 amps" is correct,
> but is "I can put 36 amp hours into the pack in 2 hours" a valid
statement?
>
> Also it seems that unless I include volts the amps and amp hour numbers
are
> pretty much useless (since I have a 300 volt pack and most people seem to
> have 120ish volt packs)
>
> Just checking
> Chris
>
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--- Begin Message ---
When I talk to people about my EV the fuel cell pop's up and people really
have bought into it . They cann't belive there being so misinformed ( by the
people who as suppost to be on our side) . I hear " well we'll just have to
wait and see" to many times . I'v heard 3 gallons of H2 = the power of 1
gallon of gas.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: San Francisco George Moscone Convention Center update on Solar
energy project
> Danny,
>
> When Dennis Weaver and group came through on their "Drive to Survive",
staff
> from the City of San Francisco were quite to announce that they are
planning
> to put a similar ballot measure before the voters to approve a bond for
Fuel
> Cell installations.
>
> Apparently this "Hydrogen Economy" bandwagon group feels that we should
all
> get into harvesting the H2 and converting it into electricity, for cars
and
> buildings. What they don't realize is it takes 6+ times more energy to
> extract, store and transport H2 than it does to just generate electricity.
> Even to use solar for hydrolysis, etc is much less efficient than
generating
> electricity, which in itself is only about 15% efficient (solar to
> electricity).
>
> What the H2 croud tends to ask EVers is why go electric when you are
> generating more pollution at the electrical plants. Yet they fail to see
> that most of the H2 extraction process is taking electricity from these
same
> sources, at a higher rate than it takes to recharge battery EVs.
>
> Solar on buildings is great. Putting up H2 fuel cell plants on building,
or
> in cars, is consuming more energy than you get in return. And fuel cell
> powered buildings become an uncontrolled unregulated (for now) pollution
> source.
>
> Keep pushing for battery electrics and solar.
>
> -Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny Ames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 6:55 PM
> To: EV SEND MSG
> Subject: San Francisco George Moscone Convention Center update on Solar
> energy project
>
>
> San Francisco George Moscone Convention Center update on Solar energy
> project
>
> Being an electric car driver in San Francisco that has access to the
> Avcon network in the City I have often wondered when the City will do
> the voters will to start adding 10 mega-watts of Solar electric
> generation.
> Several phone calls later I have this to report.
> Many thanks to Nick Carter and Adam Browning of VoteSolar.org for the
> leads.
> I have not yet gotten reply from Power Light Corporation regarding the
> SF project.
> Let me note my inquires were welcomed buy Fred Schwartz of the San
> Francisco Public Utilities Commission.
> Its been well over a year since the Hundred million dollar bond voter
> approved measure passed but the permits were finally completed and
> approved last Monday to start the Solar project for the George Moscone
> Convention Center at a cost of about 4.5 million with a 2.25 million
> State buy down. The actual start date date will now depend on the
> Convention Centers schedule as events come and go. This has been coupled
> with Energy Audits of the facility. Let me detract for a moment and
> share one neat improvement is an ongoing conversion of existing lighting
> fixtures that have greatly improved the efficiency of each lighting
> fixture, saving 700 watts each with same light output. My concern with
> the City is when is the Solar Generation is going to get done on this
> first phase. It turns out the San Francisco PUC has been handling this
> with as much bureaucratic zeal as one could expect but to their credit
> have made it this far. In my interest to cover the story my PUC contact
> was not interested in my wanting to document and particularly photograph
> the project as they are going to do this themselves and video as well
> which I said was great and would like access to these materials. This is
> a very high profile project and a lot of public attention will be
> focused on this as the work starts.
> That all I have for now,
> Danny Ames
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Steve,
>
> The Sparrow is fast. Just some controls were integrated into the
controller
> system to limit the initial torque because all that power is going into a
> single wheel. Last thing you want is for the rear wheel to break loose
when
> you are accelerating.
>From what I've experanced so far with EV's the weight makes a big difference
and a 1300 lbs EV seems like a drean come true. I can just see some guy in
a gasser "so that wasn't trick photography those thing realy do go that
fast" . I haven't seen the movie with them yet , but with all that going
for them , it's to bad they didn't make it.
>
> Also, Jeff Bradley drove his Sparrow several years ago at Woodburn, and
did
> 1/4 mile in 14.932 seconds, top speed of 83.48 mph. That means he finished
> the 1/4 mile with the 8" ADC motor spinning at about 7400+ rpm.
Now if he had a 2 speed gear box ( just dreaming) hooked right to the wheel
,what would that time be. 10% less?
I checked out your BSM on the site , nice job !
> -Ed Thorpe
>
> 1sclunn wrote:
>
> Or with the tranny , I hope they write about it. If its heavy than it
will
> need all that power . I've never been in a sparrow but at 1300 lbs 156v ,I
> would have though it would have very very fast , I'm wondering if its a
lot
> of lose in the belt .
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ampere hours is the number of Coulombs of electrons transferred through the
wire divided by 3600. (Did I say that right?)
My Physics book says one Coulomb is 6.02 x 10^23 electrons.
One Ampere is defined as one Coulomb per second of electrons.
Watt hours is the ampere hours times the voltage and is a measure of energy.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: Amps and amp hours
> Amps is the current flowing at a particular moment. Amp hours is amps x
> hours, or *how long* you've been applying a current. It's a measure of
> energy. The current can even vary through the duration of current flow
> - you just integrate the current applied over the time period in
> question to get amp hours.
>
> Amps tell you how much current is flowing right now. Amp hours tells
> you how much energy you've put into or drawn out of your pack.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A trip to the store for a wrench got me thinking:
I first saw the GEM's display model at EVS-14 Montreal
Canada (Dec 1997)
http://www.evworld.com/archives/interviews/gem.html
GEM was working EVS-14 to get investment money. Their target
price was to offer a $8000+ nEV (golf clubs not included).
This was the same thing Bombardier had already done at
EVS-12 in Orlando FL.
At EVS-14, I was sitting at the table next to Chrysler
and GEM as they talked. That afternoon Chrysler announced
to the media that they had a bought GEM. Chrysler did not
say what they were going use GEM. I pondered what their
future use would be for an automaker.
At the SCAQMD CARB workshop #2 May 2000
http://brucedp00.150m.com/carb0005/
a GM manager stood up in front of the CARB board and said
'We aren't going to make EVs anymore'. When CARB reminded
the GM manager that GM had made a public commitment to
produce EVs, he said 'Then we will sell golf carts'.
My fears came true after Chrysler was bought by Daimler.
http://www.cahillane.com/newsletter.htm
The automakers ganged together to use any and all
loop-holes to not make EVs.
Automakers got CARB ZEV credits by giving-away or selling
very cheap street-legal carts = nEVs
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=carb+credits+nev
IMHO: When a GEM nEV can be bought at Costco for under
$4000 (sold at about cost), and riding on DChrysler's power
and promotion with TV ads and media PR: DChrysler is
currently selling GEM nEVs mainly for CARB credits. It was
a screwd automaker business move to side-step a state
government mandate
http://chrysler.westoaks.com/index.cfm?action=dealerlink&Link=112
If Chrysler had not bought GEM, the GEM company would have
had as hard a time selling as all the other nEV start ups
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=neighborhood+electric&sp=1
...
I remember when Solar Electric (now defunct) first delivered
my converted Blazer EV. Like most conversions of the 1990's
it had a simple surface voltage meter to give a rudimentary
idea of your state-of-charge (SOC).
When the accelerator was depressed, the voltage when when
down. The meter was set up so it looked really bad when
people would ride in my EV. They would see the meter go to
zero while I accelerated, and say 'Good Gawd, your
batteries are dead!'. Then I would have to calm them down,
that all is well, and yes we will make it back.
The use of a SOC meter to know how many miles you have left
is more of a guessing game than reality. If I hit my pack
hard with heavy accelerations in stop and go traffic, climb
overpasses, etc, the voltage read way lower than the true
capacity (miles) left in the pack.
At some point, I gave up relying on the SOC meter, and just
went with the trip odometer. It was hard to know what your
capacity was if the SOC meter reading was unreliable. I knew
what my range was on the highway or in city driving, so
zero-ing the trip odometer before I left was much more
accurate.
Years later, I paid Mike Auto Care (Mike Slominski retired)
http://brucedp.0catch.com/blazer/index2.html
to do upgrades on my Blazer EV. I had Mike put lots of good
stuff in my Blazer EV. One of those was a Cruising Control
Emeter. What a difference a real emeter makes!
IMHO: The use of that meter is like night to day, compared
to a SOC meter. Putting a cheap SOC meter in any EV is a
waste of time. Either put a real Emeter in, or not at all.
If an ICE was trying to be sold with a gas gauge that went
to empty every time the accelerator was pushed and gave
unreliable readings, customers would complain ('Just put a
good gas gauge in there!').
...
I just took receipt of my several small chargers. They are
sold for the marine market, so they each comes in a sealed
metal casing with mounting flanges that make them larger in
dimension than needed (good for mounting on the inside of a
boat).
When looking for temporary locations to hook them up and
test them to make sure thay work, I noticed a casulty.
I had Mike install two battery pulsers in my Blazer EV. I
have two split across the pack to handle the 132 VDC pack
(they did not make a 132 VDC battery pulser at that time).
Well, I found one of them is dead (the little red led is not
blinking like a heart beat), and the other's top is bulging
like it over heated and fried itself (no heart beat either).
They died after 2.5 years of faithful pulsing their little
circuits out. I will be removing and not replacing them as
their use was not an conclusive advantage. I would like to
hear if others have had pulser failures or success stories.
...
Now I have to arrange those small chargers to get them
connected and try them out. I have one 4 bank and one 3 bank
Dual Pro SE for the rear 7 strings (two 6 V US-145s as one
string), and one 3 bank and one 2 bank Dual Pro SE for the
front 4 strings + the 12 VDC aux battery.
The weight and dimensions of each unit is different
depending on the number of banks. There is a small slot
window for each bank showing a series of leds behind a
clear plastic window in the metal case as charge indicator:
.----------------------------.
| Red Red Red Red Red Green |
'----------------------------'
The led show in a reverse manner the 'state of charge'.
In the beginning current ramp up, all the red leds are on,
the green stays off. As the charge progresses, less and
less red leds are on. Untill when the last red led goes
out and the charge cycle is completed, the green led
goes on.
I can work with this, but I would have had made the display
start with one red led on and work its way to all of them
on to know how full the battery was.
I will know more as soon as I get the old trusty wrench out
and wire these puppies up.
:-zzz
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
> Does anybody have any favorite texts for Basic STAMP or PIC micros...
> My background is software engineering at the workstation level (C, C++,
Unix)...
I use the CCS 'C' compiler at work (and home) for the PIC range. The 14bit
(16F/Cxxx) compiler (PCM) comes in at around US$130 at the moment. I do have a
book called PIC 'C' but find that standard 'C' texts cover most things, with
careful study of the Microchip datasheets and compiler manual covering the PIC
specifics. The CCS compiler has a reputation as being rather buggy, but they
bring out updates regularly (like confetti sometimes) and a perusal of the CCS
hosted list will elicit information about the last stable version. You get 30
days of updates when you buy, then a years maintenance is another US$130.
Personally I've only ever hit one bug, an interrupt simply wouldn't work with one
chip. I wrote a piece of code to clearly demonstrate the problem, sent it off
to CCS support and received an updated file by email the next day. So I at
least am happy.
www.ccsinfo.com
Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
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--- Begin Message ---
I wish :)
More like $8.50 an hour.
I expected it to work with no clutch but I didn't expect it to work so
well... perhaps its just a good gearbox, but I wouldn't hesitate to tell
anyone that the clutch isn't necessary now.
I'm on 72 volts and I have a controller problem ...its got timed
acceleration which means it doesn't instantly start picking up as I change
gears but im sure there will be a way around this.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:28 AM 06/14/2003 -0700, you wrote:
IMHO: When a GEM nEV can be bought at Costco for under
$4000 (sold at about cost), and riding on DChrysler's power
and promotion with TV ads and media PR: DChrysler is
currently selling GEM nEVs mainly for CARB credits. It was
a screwd automaker business move to side-step a state
government mandate
Bruce,
I purchased and currently drive a Costco GEM for the very reason that I
want to rub it in their noses. Big Oil purchased the NEV law and I intend
to use it like the never expected. Short trips kill gasoline cars anyway
because of the oil circulation, and now all of my gas trips are 10 miles or
longer each, keeping my gas RAV4 in top shape.
I have cut out 70% of my gasoline trips with this little car, and I'm happy
with it, but am ready to move up to a more serious EV. The primary problem
is not really range or speed, it's the limit to driving on 35mph roads or
slower - not many of those around in suburbs today!
The battery meter is really weird. I start out at 100, drive 6 miles, I'm
at 60%, then park for 1 hour, then I'm at 95% and I drive 6 miles and I'm
at 40%.
I love EV's and the GEM has really got me hooked. I purchased it when the
Think City was cancelled. I have used it for 6 months, 1600 miles, and the
batteries are starting to show some wear and the percentages are going down
faster.
I sure wish you guys would all get together and turn the EV conversion
hobby into a real business with shops and certification and BBB and so
forth, cause I don't want to build one, I just want to drive one. I can cut
my Gas trips to 10% with a 40 mile range.
I also love the idea of the Pusher Trailer, that little gadget is true
genius, unlimited range with an EV, I never would have guessed you could
push a car with a trailer.
I'm enjoying reading this list for building EV's, but is there a companion
list for EV owners only to discuss purchasing, upgrading, using and
selling? thanks!
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.21wheels.com/elchopper.html Very cool concept. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Where can I find out about methods for putting Air Conditioning
into an EV.
Can/Should you just attach a DC electric motor to the pump
of a typical car cooling pump?
What after-marked DC-driven AC units are available...
and where can I find them?
How large are they?
(Do I have a snowball's chance in hades of finding
an air conditioner which will fit in a porsche 914
conversion?)
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone had any success in finding a wheelmotor that is both
powerful enough but economical?
-Sam Harper
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anybody have any favorite texts for Basic STAMP or PIC micros...
My background is software engineering at the workstation level (C, C++,
Unix)...
I use the CCS 'C' compiler at work (and home) for the PIC range.
Does GNU have a cross-compiler for PIC? (gcc)
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sam Harper wrote:
>
> Has anyone had any success in finding a wheelmotor that is both
> powerful enough but economical?
Does it have to be electric? There are thousands of wheel motors in
service in off-road truck, industrial vehicles, and construction
equipment. They use hydraulic motors, which are small, light, and have o
problem delivering very high torques at low speeds.
You'd need an electric motor driving an oil pump to run them. This again
is standard off-the-shelf technology, used in thousands of fork lifts,
garden tractors, etc.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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--- Begin Message ---
Instead of using one main motor with a large controller, has anyone
make a vehicle with 2 or 4 smaller independent direct-to-wheel motors?
I was looking at the LEMCO LEM-2X2-126
[http://www.lemcoltd.com/pdf/60v_graph.pdf] motor, and I wondered if
two or four of these with two or four smaller controllers, and CVTs
between the motor and wheel, would be better than a large drive system
with motor, transmission, main controller, differential (if needed).
This might also free up more under-the-hood space, and provide a better
way to make regen a primary method of braking [with friction brakes for
emergency only]. Any comments? Any example vehicles?
-Sam Harper
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Sam Harper wrote:
> Instead of using one main motor with a large controller,
> has anyone make a vehicle with 2 or 4 smaller independent
> direct-to-wheel motors?
Certainly they have been built. Wheel motors are a "holy grail" that
bright but naive inventors always seem to pursue.
> I was looking at the LEMCO LEM-2X2-126 motor, and I wondered
> if two or four of these with two or four smaller controllers,
> and CVTs between the motor and wheel, would be better than a
> large drive system with motor, transmission, main controller,
> differential (if needed).
The Lemco motors aren't built to survive the kind of pounding they'd get
inside a wheel.
Being permanent magnet, they don't have a wide enough torque-speed curve
to operate with a fixed gear. Thus, you'd need the CVT.
But CVTs are expensive, and have relatively low efficiency.
As a rule, one large motor is cheaper, lighter, and more efficient than
many small motors. Same for controllers and transmissions. Differentials
and driveshafts look hokey, but are actually a pretty good solution.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
New to the list, have been reading up for the last few weeks, and have
a broad question.
I am about to undertake my first EV conversion. I have a 92 S-10 with a
dead IC motor. My requirements for the conversion are split into two
scenarios dependent on attainable range.
Scenario 1:
Consistent range in excess of 75 miles on uneven terrain.
In this case the truck could become my daily commute car. I drive ~60
miles each way to my Daughter's school---->work. At this point I would
have 220v available for a charge while at work. Work ---->home is ~45
miles.
The terrain crosses a range of coastal hills from the Sonoma Valley to
the Napa Valley.
Scenario 2:
Less range, used as mainly a weekend car, errands etc. would become
main weekend transportation. Would be a lot less uesful, as 90% of my
driving is back and forth to work...
I have reviewed a "kit" conversion, and spoken with another converter
with a "generic" kit. Neither made me comfortable with their range.
I guess my question is, how can I extend the range 10-15 miles? Both of
these kits seem to be slightly older tech, but very easy and proven
components. Both seem to reject re-gen, or other "slick" range
extending tactics.
I have considerable IC engine experience, have restored cars, rebuilt
motors, done engine swaps, race a Volvo currently, so the hardware side
of the conversion doesn't't intimidate me.
As far as electrical experience? Well, I have a tendency to let the
smoke out of things. I can learn, but do not want to make unnecessary,
expensive mistakes.
Would this be a recommended project for a first time EV'er?
Offline response is ok....
Thanks for any help,
Mark Osborne
Sebastopol, Ca
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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As one who has a '92 S-10 conversion...
yes, the typical kit conversion with 120 - 144 volts of flooded lead
acid (golf cart) batteries will have troubles with 75 mile range. If
your mechanical skills include welding (or you know someone who does),
then the "kits" would be a reasonable project with your other experience
and would easily meet your weekend needs. In retrospect, I'd keep the
clutch (see the canev kit) as hard to shift clutchless on hills.
Do you need to use the truck for cargo? If not, you could look towards
something like the 'Red Beastie' model where you pack in 40+ batteries
and then get more range - over 100 miles, at least without hills.
After hauling the heavy beast up the hills, regen on the downhill would
be very nice. But until someone (ahem) produces a DC-regen controller,
the only likely off the shelf choice is Victors AC system. Which
requires 300+ volt systems. Which means a little more to worry about
when building, and means different batteries.... which gets to the big
question for you: what is your budget? Are "advanced" batteries in your
realm of possibilities? Also, are you happy with relaxed acceleration
levels, or does your right foot like to play?
Mark wrote:
I am about to undertake my first EV conversion. I have a 92 S-10 with a
dead IC motor. My requirements for the conversion are split into two
scenarios dependent on attainable range.
Scenario 1:
Consistent range in excess of 75 miles on uneven terrain. [...]
The terrain crosses a range of coastal hills from the Sonoma Valley to
the Napa Valley.
Scenario 2:
Less range, used as mainly a weekend car, errands etc. would become
main weekend transportation. Would be a lot less uesful, as 90% of my
driving is back and forth to work...
I have reviewed a "kit" conversion, and spoken with another converter
with a "generic" kit. Neither made me comfortable with their range.
I guess my question is, how can I extend the range 10-15 miles? Both of
these kits seem to be slightly older tech, but very easy and proven
components. Both seem to reject re-gen, or other "slick" range
extending tactics.
Would this be a recommended project for a first time EV'er?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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That's exactly how the A/C was done on my Jet Electrica. A 96vdc motor
connected directly to a York compressor. You can easily put together an A/C
system from generic/salvage parts.
One source (of many) for generic components:
http://www.rdac.com/prod-cat.html
Here's an interesting link, they have 12 and 24vdc self-contained rooftop
air systems:
http://www.rdac.com/prod-cat.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Birenboim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 7:40 AM
Subject: air conditioning
Where can I find out about methods for putting Air Conditioning
into an EV.
Can/Should you just attach a DC electric motor to the pump
of a typical car cooling pump?
What after-marked DC-driven AC units are available...
and where can I find them?
How large are they?
(Do I have a snowball's chance in hades of finding
an air conditioner which will fit in a porsche 914
conversion?)
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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Lee,
What about CVTs from an ATV? Those can be had as replacement parts for
relatively cheap. I'm not really even meaning an enclosed "in wheel"
solution, just a direct-to-wheel solution. Has anyone used regen a
primary method of braking? Just curious. :)
-Sam Harper
On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 03:12 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Sam Harper wrote:
Instead of using one main motor with a large controller,
has anyone make a vehicle with 2 or 4 smaller independent
direct-to-wheel motors?
Certainly they have been built. Wheel motors are a "holy grail" that
bright but naive inventors always seem to pursue.
I was looking at the LEMCO LEM-2X2-126 motor, and I wondered
if two or four of these with two or four smaller controllers,
and CVTs between the motor and wheel, would be better than a
large drive system with motor, transmission, main controller,
differential (if needed).
The Lemco motors aren't built to survive the kind of pounding they'd
get
inside a wheel.
Being permanent magnet, they don't have a wide enough torque-speed
curve
to operate with a fixed gear. Thus, you'd need the CVT.
But CVTs are expensive, and have relatively low efficiency.
As a rule, one large motor is cheaper, lighter, and more efficient than
many small motors. Same for controllers and transmissions.
Differentials
and driveshafts look hokey, but are actually a pretty good solution.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The seal on the lid of an Optima is easily damaged. Sometimes merely
lifting the battery by the lid edges with your hands can break the seal.
You should make it a habit to always use the handles.
If you damaged the lid seal, the battery will gas quite a bit since the
recombination requires pressure. If this is the case, then the hydrogen and
oxygen will collect and the flame will travel through the break in the
seal, causing the battery itself to explode.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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At 07:36 PM 6/7/03, you wrote:
How about 15.4KW at 85%SOC to 26.3KW at 25%SOC!
Good thing I'm only planning on using 309V nominal pack drawing up to
1.5C or 135Amps: only 13.2KW at 85%SOC to 22.6KW at 25%SOC. ;-)
The peak power (and internal resistance) is a strong function of
battery temperature. As you discharged the battery, you likely raised the
temperature significantly. This would make it seem that as you reduced the
SOC, you reduced the internal resistance. Quite the opposite is typically
the case. If you control the temperature, you will likely discover this.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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I was thinking maybe something like a CVT that keeps a motor right
at 1000rpm (or some other sweet spot) all the way
through ....ooooh .....saaaay ......250mph! If the batt's could
belt out 2800amp for 13 seconds.....hmmmmm!
I don't know the math. Chris, how fast would the Mazda be going
after 13 seconds if it were delivered a CONSTANT 6000 ft lbs at
the pavement. How far will it have travelled? How long would it
take and how fast would it be going at 1320ft. Use your below
assumptions as needed.
The quickest EVs run no transmission or at most a two-speed.
A transmission and a controller serve the same role, but a
transmission weighs more. If you can get the amps and volts you need from
the controller, there is no need for a transmission.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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I was thinking again ... (dangerous) Does anyone make a
controller that would like help, like power steering or
brakes. I was thinking of something for old people (like me)
maybe one of those trikes. That way if they pedaled the
thing would help, making it easy to pedal but they'd still
get exercise.
--
Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
Ben Bennett
http://home.earthlink.net/~greyhawk200/
--- End Message ---
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At 10:17 PM 6/11/03, you wrote:
> If anyone knows where I can get a small two speed transmission let me know.
Hmm, how about a simple automatic transmission? Uses chain drive. Low
gear uses a sprocket with a one-way overrunning clutch, high gear uses a
Centrifugal Clutch like a go-kart uses.
Otmar's series-parallel set-up (standard feature of all his
controllers) archives the same result as a transmission but weighs much less.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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An AC induction motor has Torque = Current^1. You only get high torque
with high current.
Unlike the series-wound, the induction torque tops out at
saturation of the rotor. Aside from plasma or motor grenade, there is no
upper limit to the torque of a series-wound.
Thus, the AC inverter is going to need something like 6 times the
silicon to match an equivalent series motor. Possible; but expensive!
Holy mackerel! You finally came around on this. I guess those 50
posts I made convinced in the end. :^)
But for drag racing, efficiency per se is not all that important. You're
only going to be racing for a matter of seconds. The series DC motor and
PWM controller is only 50% efficient under these conditions. So your AC
drive doesn't have to be 90% efficient; even 60% will do.
Actually, you are very concerned with efficiency in a drag racing
EV (unlike and ICE.) Poor efficiency translates directly to pack weight and
lower HP. You don't mind a slight reduction in efficiency off the line for
less than a second, but you certainly care very much as the vehicle goes
down the track.
If I were to go from, say, 80% down to 60% efficiency, the bike
would go much, much slower. The HP would be reduced by 33% and/or the
weight of the battery pack would go up 33%. For my old TMF pack, this would
have meant going from 135 pounds to 180 pounds or dropping the HP from 300
down to 200. This would put the bike in the high 10's instead of the low 9's.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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