EV Digest 2860
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: All the more reason for clean electric cars.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: 36 Volt Battery Charger questions from a newbie
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: All the more reason for clean electric cars.
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: This is a MUST READ LA Times Article
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 36 Volt Battery Charger questions from a newbie
by ItalysBadBoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Starting torque
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Troubleshooting help needed!
by "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) TdS Report #77: Team Profile: "SEVRX", #75
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: All the more reason for clean electric cars.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Starting torque
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Ampabout
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Cheap bad boy charging
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: EL Chopper
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 36 Volt Battery Charger questions from a newbie
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: NiZn algorithm - correction
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Starting torque
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Ten EV-145's for sale or trade in Los Angeles area
by Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EL Chopper
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RX-7 axle bearings and stuff, was Re: A new EV begins
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) eMeter temp sensor
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Starting torque
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Starting torque
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Test
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Test
by "Brian Hay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Test (Thanks All, Done)
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) OT?: bicycle hub engine powered by gasoline
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brian,
Isn't it just amazing ?
It all boils down to the bottom line and the bottom line is economics,
health, and convenience. It seems that the majority of people able to
do something to help the environment by decreasing the world's need for
oil and natural gas do not and will not do anything unless it directly
and immediately affects their economics, health or convenience and there
is nothing anyone can do to change that situation in a democracy unless
enough of the people, that don't have the means to directly affect
change, finally decide to vote in people that will legislate change such
as improving gas mileage.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:45:48 +1000 "Brian Hay"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> This is my first post to this list, so Hi!
>
> I've been a fan of alternative energy for ages but I just recently
> researched all the different vehicle technologies in depth (ICE, EV,
> hybrid,
> steam, air, HFC etc), settling on ZEVs as the most logical and
> viable option
> for a sustainable future. At the moment I'm just learning and "all
> talk",
> but I'd like to learn more from your experiences and start to apply
> these
> valuable lessons myself.
>
> I think what you people (poineers!!) are doing is fantastic and I've
> now
> caught the same infectious bug but I was appalled to learn that the
> potential for mass-market "mainstream" adoption of ZEVs has been
> slowly
> eroded by CARB and the ICE lobbyists over the last few years and now
> HFC
> technology seems to be the focus - or is it just an excuse for the
> car
> manufacturers to further delay the inevitable transition to no-fuel
> ZEVs?
>
> I don't want to start a flame war but it had crossed my mind after
> reading
> all this madness that the US government (I'm Australian) is not
> doing what's
> right for its citizens, its future prosperity and the world. Apart
> from all
> the environmental concerns, economically and strategically speaking,
> this
> utter reliance on oil (and now hydrogen research/generation) could
> be the
> achilles heel that is America's undoing. Newly emerging economic
> powerhouses
> in the global marketplace would do well to walk a different path and
> embrace
> and develop ZEVs and renewable energy. This could be the competitive
> edge
> that countries like China and India need to challenge the economic
> and
> military strength of the US. It just seems insane to me that the US
> government (and much of the world for that matter) aren't doing
> everything
> in their power to reduce their reliance on dwindling oil reserves.
>
> Just my 2c. Rant over.
>
> Regards,
> Brian Hay.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> > Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2003 10:51 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: All the more reason for clean electric cars.
> >
> >
> > 2.
> > DRIVING REIGN
> > Seventy-five percent of U.S. workers drive alone to their jobs,
> > according to data from the 2000 U.S. Census, while only 4.7
> percent
> > get to work via public transportation and 0.4 percent commute by
> > bicycle. Ridership on mass transit has increased 22 percent since
> > 1996, says the American Public Transit Association, but highway
> > driving has increased at a faster clip -- unsurprising,
> considering
> > that roads and highways get far more government funding than mass
> > transit projects and transportation alternatives. Another cause
> of
> > our car-centric culture, say some enviros and urban planners, is
> that
> > many developments are built with only automobiles in mind, making
> it
> > difficult for people to get around by foot, bike, or public
> transit.
> >
> > straight to the source: MSNBC.com, Lynne Shallcross, 16 Jun 2003
> > <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=1244>
> >
> > from the Grist archives: Car-free and easy -- a week in the life
> of
> > Katie Alvord, author
> > <http://www.gristmagazine.com/week/alvord021102.asp?source=daily>
________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I checked my charger with an ohm meter and it is isolated. So, no battery
disconnects would be necessary if you wanted to charge a series pack with
multiple 12v chargers of this type. These chargers are heavy, weighing
about 10 pounds each. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: 36 Volt Battery Charger questions from a newbie
> Not if you are using a single charger. If you are using multiple
> chargers and the inputs are isolated from the outputs (no DC connection
> between the AC side and the DC side, usually means a transformer) then
> you can also leave them connected while charging.
>
> If you get multiple non-isolated chargers then you will have to remove
> cables.
>
> On Tue, 2003-06-17 at 11:15, ItalysBadBoy wrote:
> > Hello Mark,
> >
> > But when you do the setup as stated below and
> > your pack is in a 36 volt series, dont you have
> > to disconnect the cables going to each battery?
> > I guess that would be a minimum of two cables.
> >
> > Allan
> >
> >
> > --- Mark Thomasson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > If you want to go low budget, get a single
> > > automatic 12 volt deep cycle
> > > battery charger. Mine is 10A and cost $34 at
> > > the local auto parts store.
> > > When its finishes charging and shuts off, a
> > > bright green light comes on
> > > telling me it's time to connect it to the next
> > > battery. Buy three if you
> > > want a fast charge. I never have to worry
> > > about balancing. Mark T.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
> --
> EVDL
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I don't want to start a flame war but it had crossed my mind after reading
> all this madness that the US government (I'm Australian) is not doing what's
> right for its citizens, its future prosperity and the world.
Yup, that's what happens when you hire an oil-baron to be the
President. The first thing he did when he took office was pitch ALL of
the environmental protection programs out the door. He told California
to drop the ZEV mandate or he would throw the full weight of the
presidency behind the automakers. He's a one man environmental wrecking
machine.
(Yea, I'm no longer on active duty so I can dis the prez without
violating any regulations)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You can point to the yahoo group url without
> reprint permission (the reprint police will
> come find me).
That might make for good EV publicity, the reprint police doing a slow O.J.
chase for 75 miles while America watches the EV blazer keep going and going
and going with full media coverage.
> If you want to reprint the article, you will
> need reprint permission. You can ask LA Times
> for a fee, or ask the people mentioned in the
> article to ask LA Times for the ability to
> allow the article be reprinted. Sometimes,
> because they were interviewed, media outlets
> allow gratis reprints. Its up to them.
>
> But don't point to the LA Times url. It will
> be an old dead link before you know it.
> The is the reason I POST the whole piece and
> not just the url's of these newswires. My
> POSTs will not go dead as the EV List is
> archived in a couple of places. People in the
> future will be able to see the all the
> newswires about EVs.
>
That's right the truth will be there if somebody digs deep enough , I won't
post it on my web site , I did make a copy and have it in my truck to show
people .
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> EV List Editor & RE newswires
> (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
Thanks for the responses but I'm going to have to
play it " idiot proof " I'm going with a 36 volt
charger. I just dont know enough to go about it
any other way.
Allan
--- Mark Thomasson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I checked my charger with an ohm meter and it
> is isolated. So, no battery
> disconnects would be necessary if you wanted to
> charge a series pack with
> multiple 12v chargers of this type. These
> chargers are heavy, weighing
> about 10 pounds each. Mark T.
>
=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for
Nature cannot be fooled." --- Richard P. Feynman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remember the following first rule of disinformation analysis: truth is specific, lie
is vague. Always look for palpable details in reporting and if the picture is not in
focus, there must be reasons for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But isn't that exactly what your motors can do? To a good
approximation they are constant torque at low rpm, and constant power
at higher rpm. So long as you stay in the constant power region, the
drive wheels get the same torque regardless of the gearing. For
example, the car would accelerate just as fast at the top of 1st
gear, in 2nd at that speed, and possibly even 3rd at the speed.
Shifting a bit shy of redline shouldn't hurt you.
The reality isn't quite this good, as efficiency rolls off a bit, and
they are a bit less powerful (maybe 10% less to 20% less) at near max
rpm. It is still a good first order approximation, though.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> And torque at the wheels is what moves you, not directly the
> shaft torque. So for given system, the longer you can stay
> at lower gear, the longer higher torque applied to the wheels.
> Once you switch to the taller gear, say 2x, you loose wheel torque
> unless motor torque doubles (tough to do - batts are current
> limited).
> ...
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all your input. Here are the results of my tests:
1. I took off the wires on the motor, and there is definitely continuity
across the motor. I also hooked up a small 12v battery to the motor, and it
spun just fine.
2. I put my multimeter across the wires that were attached to the motor,
turned on the key, and pressed on the accelerator pedal, but I could not get
the voltage to be greater than zero. No volts equal no energy flowing.
3. I live 1/2 way up the hill, so I can't get any sort of running start at
it. I've done it a number of times before with no problem.
4. My controller has a giant heat sink on it, and it was first thing in the
morning, so I know it isn't an overheating problem.
5. I hear the positive click of my contactor, so it can't be low-voltage
keeping the contactor from working properly.
I'm quite sure the controller is the problem part, but I doubt I can say how
bad it is, until I get it out and have someone look at it. Unfortunately, I
basically have to remove everything in the front except the motor, which is
a multi-hour task, and a very annoying one to do in my driveway (since I
can't get the car uphill to the garage).
I'll pull it out this week sometime, and see if I can diagnose anything
further on it before sending it off somewhere.
Again, thanks for all your help on this.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Dodrill
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:03 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Troubleshooting help needed!
Hello all. My electric Pulsar has been working well up until now, and I
need some troubleshooting help with a problem it has. I think I know what
is wrong, but I'd like to find out what you think. Just to review I have
a 1985 Nissan Pulsar 120v DC, 20 buddy-paired Optima YTs, Curtis 1231
controller,
Sevcon Gen II DC/DC, and Link10 (Emeter).
I charged it per normal last night, and was on my way up the hill by my
house to take my son to school. It's a pretty steep hill, so I always take
it in first gear, and go easy on it, never more than 15 mph or 120 or so
amps. When I got to the top of the hill, I heard a slight click or thump
(not very loud), and then I didn't have power anymore. Pressing on the
gas resulted in the start of the whine noise that the Curtis always makes,
but then no noise and no power. I tried it several more times with the
same effect. Link10 reports correct voltage, so I know there is an
electrical
circut. I checked the batteries and none were disconnected or smelling
or melted. I tried turning off and on the ignition several times, and
turning
off and on the main disconnect. Link10 doesn't seem to show any amps
flowing
when I'm trying to go. I looked at the controller and it looks normal--all
wires are connected, no burning or charing. The motor seemed to be
connected
just fine from what I could see of it. I even checked my contactor and
it looks fine too.
So, what is the problem? One of my buddy pairs needs to be replaced (which
I was going to do today), but that's all that I know about that might be
awry, and I don't see how this would effect it.
Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Mark Dodrill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #77: Team Profile: "SEVRX", #75
I could never figure out how to pronounce that name. Maybe I'm not supposed
to. It originally stood for Solar Electric Vehicle Experiment. (Where did the
R come from?)
David Klapp and Mark Whipple weren't much help with the pronunciation, but they
did tell me about the lithium ion battery they designed for the car.
"We have a Solectria UMOC (Universal Motor Controller) and 13 kiloWatt motor.
It runs on a 144 Volts nominal bus, with a 12 Volt DC-to-DC converter for the
low voltage system." It is made from a similar parts kit as a Solectria Force.
"We have model 1850 LG Chem lithium cells purchased 3 years ago. At the time
they were one of the largest cells commercially available. It cost $33,000 for
11.2 kiloWatt-hours of energy. We combined them into 42 strings, 40 cells
tall, with the strings wired in parallel. The nominal voltage is 144. They
charge to 168 volts, and discharge to about 100."
Isn't that battery pack geometry unusual? "It is extremely unusual. There are
a ton of issues when doing things like this. Paralleling issues; charge
control; it's a nightmare. The hindsight is `don't do it this way'."
"The cells came with their own protection circuitry, so originally we just
built it up into a pack. Every cell has a small computer chip with temperature
protection, over-current, over-voltage, under-voltage sensing to shut itself
off if any of those conditions occurred. About a week before the 2001 Tour de
Sol we began testing. We quickly started blowing these chips, completely
frying them off the batteries. That was a pretty tough year for us. We came
and displayed anyhow. It was a lot of fun coming the the race and being able
show off what we were attempting.
"We went home, pulled the pack apart and figured out what was wrong with it.
The breakdown voltages for the FETs (Field Effect Transistors) was not rated
for the pack voltage, so when they cut off they would cascade and burn out.
"We then began redesigning a new Battery Management System (BMS). We studied
the nature of thermal runaway, how to detect it, and how to stop it. We then
redesigned for a larger voltage and greater current draw. With 1680 separate
cells in the pack, there was no way to measure the individual cell voltages.
So we run the strings at slightly lower voltages than the maximum, which gives
up some capacity as a tradeoff for safety. There are 84 temperature sensors (2
per string) and 42 Hall effect current sensors (1 per string)."
They weren't ready for the 2002 Tour de Sol, so they skipped that one.
This year they had the car running well before the Tour, but during a
particularly hard drive through the Adirondack Mountains they installed the
electrical cover for the first time, but failed to vent it. "We were planning
on doing that when we got here. Because it was closed, without ventilation, we
burned out about half the FETs in the system." They replaced the FETs, but not
with exact matches. The car got through technical testing and the range test,
but then crapped out on the next day.
The team decided to drop out and just display for the rest of the Tour.
They expect to return next year. I hope they can.
Vehicle Name SEVRX
Vehicle Number 75
Category BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES (BEV)
vehicle type category Advanced battery
Team Name Clarkson Solar Knights
Vehicle Manufacturer Honda
Vehicle Model Year 1986
Vehicle Type Class Light Duty (car, truck, van)
Vehicle Type Division Prototype
Vehicle Type Model CRX
Energy Storage System Li Ion
Battery /Li Ion
Plug Type 6-30P
Conversion Conversion
Program blurb The Clarkson University Solar Knights are a group
of students from a variety of majors constructing
a state-of-the-art battery-powered vehicle. Using
Lithium-Ion battery technology, the team has
converted a Honda CRX into SEVRX--a sustainable
fueled vehicle.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brian
> This is my first post to this list, so Hi!
>
> I've been a fan of alternative energy for ages but I just recently
> researched all the different vehicle technologies in depth (ICE, EV,
hybrid,
> steam, air, HFC etc), settling on ZEVs as the most logical and viable
option
> for a sustainable future. At the moment I'm just learning and "all talk",
> but I'd like to learn more from your experiences and start to apply these
> valuable lessons myself.
Have you been for a ride in a 50 mph EV yet?
> I think what you people (poineers!!) are doing is fantastic and I've now
> caught the same infectious bug
EVmadness What ev's have you been in?
but I was appalled to learn that the
> potential for mass-market "mainstream" adoption of ZEVs has been slowly
> eroded by CARB and the ICE lobbyists over the last few years and now HFC
> technology seems to be the focus - or is it just an excuse for the car
> manufacturers to further delay the inevitable transition to no-fuel ZEVs?
could be both , carmakers don't know what's going to be pupuler so they'll
wait to see, when somthing looks go then they go it
I don't see much hope for HFC not becuse it don't work well or cost so much
or requires hi presser and danger but becuse the batteries we have right now
will do for 90 % of the driving done.
>. It just seems insane to me that the US
> government (and much of the world for that matter) aren't doing everything
> in their power to reduce their reliance on dwindling oil reserves.
That's what the little voice in my head says each morning also.
Steve Clunn
120v VW
120 Mercury lynx
120v ford rangier (re in car nated VW)
72v hynida xl
120v 83 Mitsubishi truck
120v 89 Mitsubishi truck () re in car nated Mercury)
240v 80 Porsche 924
156v Porsche 959 rep
120v 86 Mazda trunk
> Just my 2c. Rant over.
>
> Regards,
> Brian Hay.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> > Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2003 10:51 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: All the more reason for clean electric cars.
> >
> >
> > 2.
> > DRIVING REIGN
> > Seventy-five percent of U.S. workers drive alone to their jobs,
> > according to data from the 2000 U.S. Census, while only 4.7 percent
> > get to work via public transportation and 0.4 percent commute by
> > bicycle. Ridership on mass transit has increased 22 percent since
> > 1996, says the American Public Transit Association, but highway
> > driving has increased at a faster clip -- unsurprising, considering
> > that roads and highways get far more government funding than mass
> > transit projects and transportation alternatives. Another cause of
> > our car-centric culture, say some enviros and urban planners, is that
> > many developments are built with only automobiles in mind, making it
> > difficult for people to get around by foot, bike, or public transit.
> >
> > straight to the source: MSNBC.com, Lynne Shallcross, 16 Jun 2003
> > <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=1244>
> >
> > from the Grist archives: Car-free and easy -- a week in the life of
> > Katie Alvord, author
> > <http://www.gristmagazine.com/week/alvord021102.asp?source=daily>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> > from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And torque at the wheels is what moves you, not directly the
shaft torque. So for given system, the longer you can stay
at lower gear, the longer higher torque applied to the wheels.
Once you switch to the taller gear, say 2x, you loose wheel torque
unless motor torque doubles (tough to do - batts are current limited).
Victor
Different DC motors we commonly use in EVs vary in torque per amp.
But power is conserved, the motors making more torque per amp make
less rpm per volt. Taller gearing means the motor gains less rpm for
every mph of acceleration. Two motors taking the same power in, but
one holding constant torque until 6000rpm and the other holding
constant torque to only 2000rpm indicates that the one that comes out
of current limit at 2000rpm is making 3x the torque at 2000rpm as the
other makes at 6000rpm (they are both making the same power). To put
it to the wheels equally you gear the 6000rpm motor 3 times lower. It
now has the same torque at the wheel and reaches the same speed when
it hits peak power (gets past the constant torque rpm range). Power
is an expression of both torque and speed.
The RPM times the torque divided by 5252 is the power that is moving
you. This even applies at the tyre. To go 60mph my EV Buggy requires
about 129 ft/lbs of torque at about 726rpm at the axles (about 17.8HP
at the axles).
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I previously wrote:
True, but I'm thinking of something smarter. If voltage is compared
to load it seems possible to figure out the capacity on the fly. Then
the capacity doesn't have to be programmed in; it will adjust the
capacity based on what the pack is showing, giving built in pack
capacity adjustment (so it will figure out when the pack has only 50%
of its capacity left).
Lee wrote:
Yes! This is one of the big failings of the E-meter. It assumes the
operator is smart enough to configure the E-meter correctly (amphours,
Peukert exponent, CEF, charge parameters, etc.). Its State of Charge,
Low Battery, Fully Charged, and other indicators only work when it is
configured properly.
But, the average owner doesn't know how to set them! And the E-meter
manual is no help! So, most E-meters are set up wrong, and provide bad
information.
It more than that (setting up the e-meter is a pain with their
directions though). The capacity of a battery changes over its life.
You set the numbers in your e-meter and it thinks your 5 year old
batteries can still put that much power out. Another annoyance is the
e-meter tracks amp hours. 60% SOC is more than 1/2 your range used.
The bar graph gauge needs to track more in terms of watt hours
available.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't you wish our mains would supply straight DC, not 60 Hz AC?
You could save another 55c on the bridge...
Victor
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> I decided to inform the EVlist of the
> lowest cost charger for a 120V pack.
> Jim has 20 NiCd STM-180 batteries which
> require approximately 150 to 160V max charge.
> About 5 months ago he stopped by and I gave
> him some full wave rectification bridges that
> I used in my Baldor inverter drives. These
> are rated at 35 Amps continuous.
> He mounted this to an AL heatsink and installed
> a switch that changed the bridge from half wave
> rectification to full wave. When the intitial
> charge with half wave tapers off he switches
> the bridge to full wave and finishes the charge
> cycle. He's getting 55 miles range with this setup.
> Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
This was designed by John Bidwell, a NEDRA record holder here in Colorado.
And this concept has been ridden by numerous Denver Electric Vehicle
Council members!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 17 year-old son!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:56:47 -0700
>
>http://www.21wheels.com/elchopper.html Very cool concept. Lawrence
>Rhodes......
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--- Begin Message ---
NO. You could use three chargers on three batteries hooked in series. No
problem. No need to disconnect the batteries. Lawrence Rhodes......
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "ItalysBadBoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: 36 Volt Battery Charger questions from a newbie
> Hello Mark,
>
> But when you do the setup as stated below and
> your pack is in a 36 volt series, dont you have
> to disconnect the cables going to each battery?
> I guess that would be a minimum of two cables.
>
> Allan
>
>
> --- Mark Thomasson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > If you want to go low budget, get a single
> > automatic 12 volt deep cycle
> > battery charger. Mine is 10A and cost $34 at
> > the local auto parts store.
> > When its finishes charging and shuts off, a
> > bright green light comes on
> > telling me it's time to connect it to the next
> > battery. Buy three if you
> > want a fast charge. I never have to worry
> > about balancing. Mark T.
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
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I made an error in my post conveying Evercel info about NiZn charging.
Second constant current phase suppose to last 60 min, not 240 min.
So, for MB80 they're recommending:
1. 11A for 6 hrs 26 min, 15.8V per battery cap;
2. 5A for 1 hr (60 min), 15.8V cap. Done.
Victor
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--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
>
> But isn't that exactly what your motors can do? To a good
> approximation they are constant torque at low rpm, and constant power
> at higher rpm. So long as you stay in the constant power region, the
> drive wheels get the same torque regardless of the gearing.
Huh? Are you suggesting that my acceleration i.e. torque at the wheels
(with given system) on the first gear is the same as on the 5th?
Victor
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Hey everyone,
I've got ten 12V EV-145's (US Battery) for sale. They are brand new -
bought in April 2003 - and have never been used or charged. The batteries
have automotive style round posts - no L brackets or threaded posts.
I bought them to use in my 1980 Jet Electrica 007 but they are just too
heavy for me to move. They also don't fit properly in my battery boxes and
I don't have the time or interest needed to properly rebuild the boxes. So
I want to get 20 6V instead.
I bought these batteries for $120 each from Jim in Hayward before I moved to
the LA area. I'd be willing to let them go for $100 apiece or a straight up
trade for 20 new/used 6V batteries.
This is my first EV, so used batteries are okay since I'll probably kill
them anyway, but I'd like to get at least a year's worth of power from them.
I'd like to get batteries with L brackets on them as I've heard these are
the best kind, but threaded posts would work too since I already have that
kind of cable.
There is only one battery with a problem. As I was trying to get a cable
end to fit onto one of the posts, the plastic surrounding it cracked and the
post sunk into the battery a bit. No acid is leaking out and I think the
battery is still okay. So, in all honesty, I'm selling or trading nine
perfect batteries and one slightly damaged one.
Please let me know off-list if you're interested.
Thanks!
Aubrey
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At our request John has redone a set of plans that will be available soon
through EV Parts that uses the Etek motor. It should be a real fun ride! I'm
waiting to hear from our local fabrication shop for a bid on doing the frame
for me so we can have a "test mule" (read another toy) for here at the shop.
We're just trying to keep up with the amount of toys that Brian at
"Thunderstruck Motors" has :-)
Roderick
Roderick Wilde
Vintage Golf Cart Parts
Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 360-385-4868
Fax: 360-385-7922
107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: EL Chopper
> All,
> This was designed by John Bidwell, a NEDRA record holder here in Colorado.
> And this concept has been ridden by numerous Denver Electric Vehicle
> Council members!
>
> Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
> Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
> http://www.devc.org/
> Lyons, CO
> 1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 17 year-old son!)
> 1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>
> >From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:56:47 -0700
> >
> >http://www.21wheels.com/elchopper.html Very cool concept. Lawrence
> >Rhodes......
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--- Begin Message ---
All,
And speaking of RX-7 axle bearings. Due to the original conversion (by
someone else) with floodies having too much weight in the back of the
buggy, I had to replace both rear axle bearings in our's (last year or the
year before?!). And although I switched to a lighter YT pack shortly after
that, I've been driving the car lately (papa needs new floodies for the
truck) and have noticed noise from the rear-end again. I've been thinking
about a new glider for awhile, as the body has a lot of rust and bondo, not
to mention that after a trip to Bandimere's dragstrip last year, I don't
have first or second gear (and I just realized recently forth is gone also)
and the clutch is slipping, so I've been limping around in third gear with
a top speed of 65 mph, going to a neighboring town. My son has been using
the car around locally and to get to school, but it's time for a change.
I've heard that after '79, the RX-7 with the turbo engine had a better
transmission, but I haven't confirmed that. I've been debating if we should
stick with the '79 through '84(?) RX-7 glider to reuse the adapter plate
and extra car parts, or switch buggies for a better drive-train, as the
RX-7 doesn't like electric torque. Not to mention the 12V electrical system
is a problem, along with the brakes... Did I mention the front-end is
shot?! I did locate a house with three SCCA(?) RX-7's with full roll cages
in a rural area about 20 miles south of here, but nobody was home when I
stopped by, and I've been busy with the BMX track and haven't gotten back.
On the other hand, I have a heavy-duty (3300 lb.) Ford nine-inch Bronco
rear-end, and I really like the '68 Mustang, but even an old Mustang glider
would cost an arm, a leg, a ....
Wanting to be at a dragstrip,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 17 year-old son!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:16:49 +1200
>
>Hi Paul,
>
>Coming from an automotive background im very aware of the strains and
>stresses put on bearings by load and the consequences.
>
>If as you say sparrow motors are experiencing bearing problems then perhaps
>when replacing them you could do what we did for Mazda rx7's when we raced
>them.
>
>These cars are small and have a lot of horsepower but little torque so Mazda
>got away with very light axles, but in race conditions we found that the
>axles flexed using the bearing as a pivot and broke just behind the bearing.
>
>The fix for this turned out to be rather simple and may well be just as easy
>here.
>
>What we did was buy a double race bearing the same size as the axle bearing
>and make a housing to contain its extra length, then fitted this to the
>axle, not only does the bearing become twice as durable, but the axle and
>bearing are no longer able to flex and it doesn't break anymore.
>
>This would also double the thrust loading of the bearing for other
>applications.
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Hello: any idea what the eMeter uses as a temp sensor? Is this just a
thermistor?
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No, going 1st to 5th would drop the RPM enough you go from the
constant power region to the constant current region.
Looking at your web page, your spreadsheet shows the constant power
region to be 3500 rpm to about 10,200 rpm. As long as the motor stays
in this rpm range, the drive wheels will deliver the same torque to
the road no matter what the gear! (Except for some minor variation
due to efficiency changing with rpm.)
For example:
First gear, 8000 to 10000 rpm (let's guess about 40 to 50 mph)
Second gear, about 5700 to 7100 rpm (40 to 50 mph)
Third gear, about 4100 to 5100 rpm (40 to 50 mph)
would all accelerate at the same rate!
To drag race your car, you'd probably turn in the best times by
shifting 1st to 3rd, and saving the time the 2nd shift would have
taken. (Or if 1st is just wheel spin, then racing 2nd to 4th may be
better yet.)
The reason this works mathematically is power is constant.
Power = constant = torque * rpm
lower rpm has more torque, each shift lowers the rpm by some
constant, but raises the torque by the same constant.
Caveat: AC motors tend to have this nice constant power region, but I
don't think that extends to series DC.
In any case, I think it would be great if you did a test like the
example above, and posted the results.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> >
> > But isn't that exactly what your motors can do? To a good
> > approximation they are constant torque at low rpm, and constant
> power
> > at higher rpm. So long as you stay in the constant power region,
> the
> > drive wheels get the same torque regardless of the gearing.
>
> Huh? Are you suggesting that my acceleration i.e. torque at the
> wheels
> (with given system) on the first gear is the same as on the 5th?
>
> Victor
>
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 13:39, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> >
> > But isn't that exactly what your motors can do? To a good
> > approximation they are constant torque at low rpm, and constant power
> > at higher rpm. So long as you stay in the constant power region, the
> > drive wheels get the same torque regardless of the gearing.
>
> Huh? Are you suggesting that my acceleration i.e. torque at the wheels
> (with given system) on the first gear is the same as on the 5th?
>
Only if you are in the constant power region (I.e. OUT of current limit)
in both gears. This seems unlikely when comparing 1st and 5th.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I am in the process of migrating to IE 6 and a regular ISP and configuring
my OE to output all my mail in plain text. Yep, after all these years
leaving the "comfort" of AOL. I would appreciate it if someone would let me
know how this looks to the list, either plain text or HTML. I bought IE 6
for Dummies (Frys didn't have IE 6 for Real Dummies and ex AOL) users and I
want to make sure I followed the directions to set plain text and am posting
correctly. Thanks in advance. DC.
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--- Begin Message ---
HAL: Yes Dave
;-)
plain text for me.
Regards,
Brian Hay.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of David Chapman
> Sent: Thursday, 19 June 2003 2:43 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Test
>
>
> Hi all,
> I am in the process of migrating to IE 6 and a regular ISP
> and configuring
> my OE to output all my mail in plain text. Yep, after all these years
> leaving the "comfort" of AOL. I would appreciate it if
> someone would let me
> know how this looks to the list, either plain text or HTML. I
> bought IE 6
> for Dummies (Frys didn't have IE 6 for Real Dummies and ex
> AOL) users and I
> want to make sure I followed the directions to set plain text
> and am posting
> correctly. Thanks in advance. DC.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all that replied. I passed the test!! DC.
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All,
Just when I thought the brown cloud on the front range of Colorado couldn't
get any worse, I see this article in the newspaper!
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~1461300,00.html
And how about this quote from the article:
"This is an ingenious solution to a transportation problem," said Fields,
whose consulting practice extends worldwide. "With the e-bikes, you can
only go so far before you are out of juice and stuck in the middle of
nowhere. With the gasoline-powered bikes, you can travel about 200
miles on 1 gallon and fuel up just about anywhere."
Does this sound familiar? And you can't find more electrical outlets than
gas pumps? This is sad!
I couldn't find an e-mail address for the writer, Vicky Lio, but
[EMAIL PROTECTED] might work. Unfortunately, I'll be very busy through
the weekend, so I'll e-mail other Denver Electric Vehicle Council members
who might want to contact the writer to see if the Denver Post would print
a story about e-bikes and cars, and how they can be "fueled just about
anywhere"!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, for the 17 year-old son!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
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