EV Digest 2871
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC controler questions.
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Charging at campgrounds
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Charging at campgrounds
by "Eric Penne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Charging at campgrounds
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: DC controler questions.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: DC controler questions.
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC controler questions.
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What 156V controllers are available?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: DC controler questions.
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: DC controler questions.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: DC controler questions.
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: DC controllers
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC controler questions
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DC controler questions.
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Meter question
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Meter question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Charging at campgrounds
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Correction on available SepEx controllers
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: DC controler questions.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) AC-to-DC motor controllers as chargers
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Curtis controller specs
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Automatic Battery Cycler/Exerciser
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Meter question
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: micro-ice
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Current Eliminator News and Series motor shiming
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30) Re: 50mpg from Lotus Elise was RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Rice?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: AC-to-DC motor controllers as chargers
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I was wondering a bit about this too, and I decided that the answer was
a separate small pmdc motor, for me at 72 volts, I plan to add a 90 volt
motor to my system somewhere, if controlled by a pulley like the aircond
electric clutch this would produce little drag when driving and when engaged
as gen, any heat would be applied to a motor that is not the drive motor,
thus reducing the risk of damage.
I figure that for the sake of a few pounds each, if one wasn't enough,
others could be added and staged from multiple switches at the top of the
brake pedal travel, just like your brake lights are.
This also allows for the removal of the vacuum pump because the regen
braking will take over the effort supplied by vacuum and only require the
remaining brake force to fully stop or hold the car still once stopped.
It seems like a practical solution to me, what do others think ?
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most commuters may ride alone, but might use that extra seat room for
carpool, grociers, etc. especially if it is their only means of private
transportation other than a bicycle or walking.
Fine, but that doesn't mean 2 seat. It means 1 seat + usable Cargo area.
(Hatchback Sparrows have quite a bit of cargo space.)
I think an electric car with 1 seat misses the point, How can you convert
more people to love it and want their own if you can't take them for a
ride? And where do you put your wife to go out to dinner? I think an
electric car should be your primary car except for trips out of town.
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:55 PM 06/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> Question: Anyone ever charge their car at campgrounds?
This questions is confusing to me. How do you get an electric car to a
campground? And where do you camp when you get there, since you can't pull
a trailer home with the EV? What part did I miss?
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >2138 lbs is a little heavy for a kit car. You could do 1500 with a VW
based
> >glider and weigh that with the batteries installed..Lawrence Rhodes....
>
> Your a bit optimistic with 1500lbs. My EV Buggy is not much of a kit
> body on a shortened VW frame with 10 light Optimas; it weighs 1420lbs.
>
> Neon
> Oh I was just talking about a glider. Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You missed the part where you don't stay at the campgrounds for camping
with an RV or anything. You just use the campground as a charging station
since you know they have higher power electrical outlets available right
next to where you park the car. Campgrounds are abundant near highways
and are easy to find.
> At 03:55 PM 06/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>> > Question: Anyone ever charge their car at campgrounds?
>
> This questions is confusing to me. How do you get an electric car to a
> campground? And where do you camp when you get there, since you can't
> pull a trailer home with the EV? What part did I miss?
>
> brad
>
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This questions is confusing to me. How do you get an electric car to a
campground? And where do you camp when you get there, since you can't
pull a trailer home with the EV? What part did I miss?
*clunks head* :-)
Well, you drive it to the campground. Campgrounds are neat places
because they are usually near major interstates, and are potential
sources of power due to hookups.
One would think that if I did a cross country trip I could hopscotch
from campground to campground.
Best we can do here on the East Coast. Well, that and my map of
places-to-charge that I am trying to put together.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What kind of "90 volt motor" were you planning on using for regen?
If you use a PM type, you will need the clutch setup like an A/C compressor.
The downside is that the regen will drag the car down to a fixed RPM in each
gear and won't pull it any further down unless you have a boost converter to
boost the motor voltage up to the battery voltage. Doubt that you will like
it without the converter.
If you use a sepex (or shunt) type motor, you can leave the motor spinning
all the time and remove the field voltage from it. This will leave only the
windage and brush frictional losses in the motor. The upside is that you can
control the field to control how much braking the motor generates. I had one
like this and I put a trigger control on the gear shift to control the
regen. It worked quite well down to about 3000 RPM with my setup. The thing
I ran into was that downshifting without the clutch was difficult to master
to keep the RPM up that high when coming to a stop. To generate more regen
would require a boost converter on the field. I gave up on regen when I
discovered that I was getting only about 3 to 8% returned to the battery in
my travels.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: DC controler questions.
> Hi, I was wondering a bit about this too, and I decided that the answer
was
> a separate small pmdc motor, for me at 72 volts, I plan to add a 90 volt
> motor to my system somewhere, if controlled by a pulley like the aircond
> electric clutch this would produce little drag when driving and when
engaged
> as gen, any heat would be applied to a motor that is not the drive motor,
> thus reducing the risk of damage.
>
> I figure that for the sake of a few pounds each, if one wasn't enough,
> others could be added and staged from multiple switches at the top of the
> brake pedal travel, just like your brake lights are.
>
> This also allows for the removal of the vacuum pump because the regen
> braking will take over the effort supplied by vacuum and only require the
> remaining brake force to fully stop or hold the car still once stopped.
>
> It seems like a practical solution to me, what do others think ?
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Hi, I was wondering a bit about this too, and I decided that the answer
was
> a separate small pmdc motor, for me at 72 volts, I plan to add a 90 volt
> motor to my system somewhere, if controlled by a pulley like the aircond
> electric clutch this would produce little drag when driving and when
engaged
> as gen, any heat would be applied to a motor that is not the drive motor,
> thus reducing the risk of damage.
>
..............................................
>
> Garry Stanley
>
How does regenerative braking work with PM motors/generators and a fixed
voltage battery pack? Generator terminal voltage is proportional to speed,
so if the braking generator is going fast enough to put out more voltage
than pack voltage, it will pump current back to the pack, recovering the
energy and slowing down the vehicle. If the speed is slower and the voltage
is lower than pack voltage, how does current get back to the pack? Do you
need a boost converter in between the generator and the battery pack to
control the current flow and the braking force? I have the feeling I am
missing something obvious here.
Regenerative braking with a contact controller is pretty straight forward.
My controller rearranges the pack to produce 12v, 24v, or 36v. If I am up
to full speed at 36 volts, dropping the pack to 24 volts turns the motor
into a generator until I slow to 2/3 full speed. Dropping from 24 to 12v
slows me to 1/3 speed. Going to zero volts open circuits the motor, so no
regeneration or braking occurs in this state. If instead I short circuit
the motor, I would get braking all the way to zero speed, but this would be
called dynamic braking, since no energy is recovered to the battery. Mark
T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, this answers my questions. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: DC controler questions.
> What kind of "90 volt motor" were you planning on using for regen?
>
> If you use a PM type, you will need the clutch setup like an A/C
compressor.
> The downside is that the regen will drag the car down to a fixed RPM in
each
> gear and won't pull it any further down unless you have a boost converter
to
> boost the motor voltage up to the battery voltage. Doubt that you will
like
> it without the converter.
>
> If you use a sepex (or shunt) type motor, you can leave the motor spinning
> all the time and remove the field voltage from it. This will leave only
the
> windage and brush frictional losses in the motor. The upside is that you
can
> control the field to control how much braking the motor generates. I had
one
> like this and I put a trigger control on the gear shift to control the
> regen. It worked quite well down to about 3000 RPM with my setup. The
thing
> I ran into was that downshifting without the clutch was difficult to
master
> to keep the RPM up that high when coming to a stop. To generate more regen
> would require a boost converter on the field. I gave up on regen when I
> discovered that I was getting only about 3 to 8% returned to the battery
in
> my travels.
>
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 5:25 PM
> Subject: Re: DC controler questions.
>
>
> > Hi, I was wondering a bit about this too, and I decided that the answer
> was
> > a separate small pmdc motor, for me at 72 volts, I plan to add a 90 volt
> > motor to my system somewhere, if controlled by a pulley like the aircond
> > electric clutch this would produce little drag when driving and when
> engaged
> > as gen, any heat would be applied to a motor that is not the drive
motor,
> > thus reducing the risk of damage.
> >
> > I figure that for the sake of a few pounds each, if one wasn't enough,
> > others could be added and staged from multiple switches at the top of
the
> > brake pedal travel, just like your brake lights are.
> >
> > This also allows for the removal of the vacuum pump because the regen
> > braking will take over the effort supplied by vacuum and only require
the
> > remaining brake force to fully stop or hold the car still once stopped.
> >
> > It seems like a practical solution to me, what do others think ?
> >
> > Garry Stanley
> >
> > Cable.net.nz
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both.
We have samples of both FET and IGBT devices that should allow us to run the
PFC chargers at 100 kHz instead of 40 kHz or at 30 amps instead of 20 amps.
Both look like they are thermally superior to the ones we designed into the
product about two years ago.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: What 156V controllers are available?
> Joe-
>
> When you talk about the new power silicon devices, what are you
> referring to? Decent 500V rated 'FETs or low VCEsat IGBTs or something
else?
>
> Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motors im looking at using are designed to run at 500 rpm so they will
not need huge speeds to get to pack voltage.
I assume that as soon as the voltage reaches pack voltage that this will
induce current flow.
Having several of these in the system would mean that they could actually be
used in series to produce pack voltage as speed fell off.
This is still all theory for me I haven't reached this point with my car,
but since its actually running I figure now is a good time to start thinking
about this.
Even lower voltages could simply be fed into caps with a diode stopping the
batteries from charging them and as soon as the cap reaches greater than
pack voltage it will automatically discharge into the pack and start
refilling again.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't follow the final paragraph.
I don't understand how a lower voltage can be fed into a cap until it
exceeds pack voltage.
Please explain further.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: DC controler questions.
> The motors im looking at using are designed to run at 500 rpm so they will
> not need huge speeds to get to pack voltage.
>
> I assume that as soon as the voltage reaches pack voltage that this will
> induce current flow.
>
> Having several of these in the system would mean that they could actually
be
> used in series to produce pack voltage as speed fell off.
>
> This is still all theory for me I haven't reached this point with my car,
> but since its actually running I figure now is a good time to start
thinking
> about this.
>
> Even lower voltages could simply be fed into caps with a diode stopping
the
> batteries from charging them and as soon as the cap reaches greater than
> pack voltage it will automatically discharge into the pack and start
> refilling again.
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good point, i would have to make some mods to the motor to make that work.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<What kind of "90 volt motor" were you planning on using for regen?
If you use a PM type, you will need the clutch setup like an A/C compressor.
The downside is that the regen will drag the car down to a fixed RPM in each
gear and won't pull it any further down unless you have a boost converter to
boost the motor voltage up to the battery voltage. Doubt that you will like
it without the converter.
If you use a sepex (or shunt) type motor, you can leave the motor spinning
all the time and remove the field voltage from it. This will leave only the
windage and brush frictional losses in the motor. The upside is that you can
control the field to control how much braking the motor generates....>>
EVParts has Curtis regen controllers for 80V and 120V series motors, but the
most voltage I've seen for SepEx is 48V - a rebuilt Curtis with 2yr
warrantee about $300 for 500A peak. What's nice is the regen and
contactor-less reverse you get with these.
If anyone knows of a higher voltage SepEx controller, please let me know -
once I get my current Kewet at optimum, I will be running another Kewet from
96V of NiCd (~110V charged) and will probably get a 1221R while treating the
compound motor as a series. The car can't quite reach 40mph with 48V, but
with twice the voltage, probably won't be running much over 45mph for more
than 5-10min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<The motors im looking at using are designed to run at 500 rpm so they will
not need huge speeds to get to pack voltage....I assume that as soon as the
voltage reaches pack voltage that this will induce current flow....Having
several of these in the system would mean that they could actually be used
in series to produce pack voltage as speed fell off....This is still all
theory for me I haven't reached this point with my car, but since its
actually running I figure now is a good time to start thinking about this.>>
<<Good point, i would have to make some mods to the motor to make that
work.>>
90V gives you 500rpm? Connect it directly to the wheel with a 96V input to
give about 44kph/30mph. They're PM, right? Connect to a 3:1 diff and run at
48V to get 66kph/45mph + regen with contactors (not very smooth) or buy a
48V PM controller (very smooth) and only use one contactor. What about
current ratings, whether constant or intermittant, and for how many minutes?
Might help to have some info - why do more work than needed?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How does regenerative braking work with PM motors/generators and a fixed
> voltage battery pack? Generator terminal voltage is proportional to speed,
> so if the braking generator is going fast enough to put out more voltage
> than pack voltage, it will pump current back to the pack, recovering the
> energy and slowing down the vehicle. If the speed is slower and the voltage
> is lower than pack voltage, how does current get back to the pack? Do you
> need a boost converter in between the generator and the battery pack to
> control the current flow and the braking force? I have the feeling I am
> missing something obvious here.
>
The short answer is "not very well".
Unless you are using ultra high efficiency PM motors, the output voltage
is NOT fixed with RPM. Under high current it's sags, just like a
lead-acid battery. At some cutoff RPM the motor's back EMF will exceed
the pack voltage and current will flow. With higher RPMs you end up
with more current, but not much more voltage (assuming you're charging a
battery).
One big problem though. At RPMs much higher than the cutoff RPM, huge
currents will flow. Huge currents mean huge torque and the vehicle
slows rapidly. However as the RPMs drop toward the cutoff RPM, current
drops and torque (and therefor braking) drops off.
Without some kind of regen controller, braking will be very unpleasant.
A SepEx motor would be a MUCH better solution, better yet a modified
automotive alternator rewired for high voltage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a little 2" meter whose face reads DC milliamps to 1000 and DC volts
to 50, but it can't read volts directly (1 D-cell pins it)...so how is this
used?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use an external resistor in series with the meter to make it read volts.
Start testing with a 50K resistor.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:53 PM
Subject: Meter question
> I have a little 2" meter whose face reads DC milliamps to 1000 and DC
volts
> to 50, but it can't read volts directly (1 D-cell pins it)...so how is
this
> used?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually EV have gone camping.
Will Beckett bought used, the second Blazer EV that
Solar Electric (defunct) converted for actor Robin
Williams (a baby blue 1992 four door, 120V T145
pack).
He had driven his family to and camped at Big Basin
(a major Redwood park in the Santa Cruz mountains).
He had sweet talked the rangers into letting him
plug in to the 5-20 in the restroom. That is not an
easy item to do, as using Fed electricity money is
usually is not allowed and the long cord is always
considered a safety liability.
...
But I use campgrounds, and RV/trailer parks because
there isn't public EV charging everywhere.
But if you are going to do a multiple charge road
trip, you need to have a 'better-than-overnight'
charger.
Having had both, I can say you should have a charger
with the abilities of the PFC-20 is a minimum. A
PFC-50 is better.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brad Waddell wrote:
> >>Most commuters may ride alone, but might use that extra seat
room for
> >>carpool, grociers, etc. especially if it is their only means
of private
> >>transportation other than a bicycle or walking.
> >Fine, but that doesn't mean 2 seat. It means 1 seat + usable
Cargo area.
> >(Hatchback Sparrows have quite a bit of cargo space.)
>
> I think an electric car with 1 seat misses the point, How can
you convert
> more people to love it and want their own if you can't take
them for a
> ride? And where do you put your wife to go out to dinner? I
think an
> electric car should be your primary car except for trips out of
town.
This last sentence is exactly how I like to view it. I don't
view the EV as a "second" vehicle; it is the primary vehicle.
For that longer trip every couple of weeks, month or two, get the
gasser warmed up and enjoy the scenery. If the EV charging
infrastructure ever builds out (not likely), then our EVs could
take on more and more of the gasser's job.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > For people living in an apt, it is nearly impossible to own
an
> > EV, by virtue of the fact that many apt managers make it
nearly
> > impossible to set up charging.
>
> Balderdash!
>
> I've lived in apartments, and still drove EVs. Outdoor outlets
are very
> common. If there isn't one close enough, they are inexpensive
enough to
> add. All we're talking about is a perfectly ordinary AC
receptacle.
The "perfectly ordinary receptacle" is how I viewed it too.
Having dealt with and watched management here for nearly a
decade, I think it is more that they didn't want to be bothered.
I've known other situations where "apt living" has been a
hindrance to EV charging. A Sparrow owner down in San Jose can't
charge at his apt carport without getting hassled by security,
but fortunately he works for a solar company and can charge
there. In CA, outdoor outlets are few and far between. None at
where I used to work, except way up in the courtyard, 25-50ft
from the nearest parking space, and the owner eventually zilched
charging there for perking the batteries up coming back from SF
prior to going up my apt hill, even if I worked while charging.
Yeah, there's one on the front of the local Safeway down on the
flats that I've taken note of in case I had an emergency, but
it's only 120V, and I doubt that for charging a couple of hours
with a cord draped across a busy walkway (even under a cord
protector), security would take kindly to it, especially if
repeated.
The only power downstairs in the carports is the ceiling lighting
consisting of 75W bulbs in globes. I had to run power down there
somehow to get charging. I had fantasies of a laser going from
the corner of my deck down to the car to a receiver... (yeah,
sure...)
1) April 1994: Made up written proposal to run wiring-in-conduit
from my deck outlet (I am in the first floor above the carports)
down to my carport, or try and trade with someone to get a
carport directly under my deck. The lady manager left a vmail
saying I would have to move out of the complex if I wanted to do
this (charge and run an EV).
2) Next few weeks: While I tried to deal with the implications
of that, including examing the possibility of weekly dump
charging at the person's house who helped build my vehicle (8
miles away) and at work, I suddenly got a vmail that the apt
manager had talked to the building owner, who said that I could
do the charge scene, with two conditions: the wiring had to be
totally concealed, and the outlet had to be in a locked box.
Wow!
3) Now late May / early June 1994: Got proposals from several
contractors, varying in cost from $500 (that guy liked the EV
scene and was can-do) to $1000-1500 (we're going to have to tear
out a bunch of drywall and it's going to be ugly...). So went
with the $500 guy, who said there were a couple of choices:
120V/20A circuit - this runs off my kitchen(one
side)/deck(barbecue) circuit and goes down and across one carport
space to an outlet on the ceiling of my carport (the building
support next to my carport is solid brick or brick veneer, so
can't enclose anything there); 220V if I lost the kitchen circuit
(one side). So I went with 120V (don't need to charge fast at
home and let's keep it simple) and wrote it up for the apt
manager.
4) Never heard back from the apt manager. My Rabbit conversion
started in July and ended in October 1994. At this time, I left
vmail with the manager, who returned vmail saying they had left a
positive vmail in June - I never got this vmail. So one week
(during which time the pack ran out of juice) getting the
contractor here, and the job turned out to be harder than they
thought it was going to be because of the fire barrier over the
carports, but it got done, permitted and all. I had my charging
port! Wow, that was a lot harder than an ordinary outlet
should've been, but you do what it takes!
>
> In any part of the country where you get snow, outdoor outlets
are
> already installed at many apartments. They are there so people
can plug
> in their car's block heater so it will start on cold winter
mornings.
> I've never seen an apartment that even charged for them.
Yes, I saw these in Fairbanks, AK when I visited there, lots of
them in parking lots. Where I lived in CO (Denver area) for
three decades, I think the outdoor outlet situation is much the
same as here in CA, although then I wasn't on the lam for outdoor
outlets like I've been once or twice with my EV here in CA.
>
> Apartment managers are human beings. If you approach them
right, they
> will let you charge. Usually, this just means making sure it
won't cost
> them money.
I tried to do it right but writing the formal proposal and not
just dumping a cord over the rail of my deck. She (the apt
manager) did take the initiative to make it happen, and they have
not hassled me about it since, so that counts for something...
A lot of work, though, in a society that professes a great want
for clean air. Seems to me there is a big disconnect between the
CA/CARB policies and mandates, and what ends up happening down at
the "street".
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
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I found out both Sevcon and Curtis have SepEx controllers that go as high as
80V:
http://www.sevcon.com/Data%20sheet/PowerpaK%20SEM.pdf
http://www.curtisinst.com/Uploads/DataSheets/ACF208.pdf
but I still need one that can handle >110V from a fully-charged 96V NiCd
pack.
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In searching for motor controllers, I have noted a lot of controllers that
allow varying the speed of a DC motor run off of the AC line, such as for
lathes and such. Can one of these be used as a battery charger, sort of like
a variable power supply, or is there something that prevents this use?
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Anyone know what the V/A ratings are for a Curtis PMC 1203A-606? I could not
seem to find it listed on their site. Thanks, David Chapman.
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I have been thinking about trying to cobble up some kind of
automatic/semi-automatic load bank/charger setup that I could use to cycle
my batteries and to help rehab some older 12 V batteries that have been
abused, after I can get them to take current and up to proper voltage range.
I have a number of 12 volt and 28 volt coil relay/contactors that I have
collected that should handle some fairly stout amps, quite a few feet of old
AC heat strip (nichrome coil sping type) and somewhere around here I have a
Rudman MK something or another regulator. I plan on using my upgraded FR
charger for input, and had thought about putting the nichrome load into a
mineral oil bath to help keep things tidy. Any recommendations on what
discharge amperages I should be shooting for and if so what value the
resistance should be? Also, any thoughts on what theraputic discharge/charge
parameters should be? (remember, these are basically good batteries that
have been on the shelf, may be a little down on capacity, were down on
voltage when I checked them) IE, discharge to X % of ? (manufacturers
specs?), then charge back to Y% (13.2-13.5 on a 12 V batt?) Lastly, while I
know there are a lot of guys on the list that could whip a palm pilot into
controlling this thing perfectly while logging all the data and then
e-mailing them the results, I need to tend to keep this project as
electro-mechanical as possible. I understand old pinball machines, opto
interfaces and pic stamps are beyond me. TIA, David C.
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Sounds like what you have is just the meter movement from a
multi-meter. Typically these require 50 mv to move full scale, it might
have something printed on the back of the meter.
To measure amps you'll need a shunt and to measure volts you'll need a
voltage divider network.
On Sat, 2003-06-21 at 22:53, The Levine Family wrote:
> I have a little 2" meter whose face reads DC milliamps to 1000 and DC volts
> to 50, but it can't read volts directly (1 D-cell pins it)...so how is this
> used?
>
--
EVDL
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At 03:15 PM 6/21/2003 -0400, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 20 Jun 2003 at 16:24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> And at only about 350 built over 3 years, the
> company was still losing money on each vehicle.
Is that before or after the costs of all the recalls and retrofits? Just
curious.
Who knows, especially with all the fraud, mis-management, and other
stupidities that Corbin specialized in.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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Its summer and hot in Phoenix which means the current eliminator is down.The
trip to vegas caused much trouble for the entire operation,On the way there we
hit a giant dip in the road which launched the trailer at least 2 feet,it was
a very hard landing shearing many rivets on the trailer skin,cracking
insulation on the armature,breaking tiedown mounting on the car,smashing the
top,cracking a battery ect. ect. I check the
motor about every 10 runs with a ohmeter,so back from vegas the armature showed
2.5 ohms to ground,also I had at least half pack voltage to ground,taking
apart the pack revealed a cracked and burnt battery,one third of the inside! So
the CE ran very well for all its troubles in vegas,9 sec.qt.miles with a
shorted motor and battery.Also found a bubba contactor with a small burnt hole on
the bottom. CE now has a new
hood,and more swoop to the windshield,the trailer is now being resided,and
CEs getting a new paint job.Battery and contactor are in my replacement stock.
Now for
the motor,after steam cleaning and bakeing the armature the ohm reading
inproved to about 2000 ohms.On futher inspection 2 turns coming out of the iron
slots there was burnt insulation.I suspect the heavey jar caused this ins.to crack
at the tight bend,This armature was rewound last summer,and part of the mods
were to eliminate excess rotating weight,by making sharp short turns coming
out of the slots.Yes we did take 4+ lbs off,but the winder had to really work
the copper on the turns,this could have been the start of the problemwith the
insulation being cracked.The Vacum varinish job was also inferior,it took little
effort to lift the offending copper out of the slots to reinsulate the slot.A
good friend of mine runs the reliance electric motor rewind shop in Denver
and Casper saw the armature and commented he had just failed the reliance value
added shop in pho.The vpi tank was a writeup,varnish to thin.
The armature is now clear at a
1000 volts,with very thick varnish holding things in place.While apart I had the
field poles ,comm. and arm. iron ground.The pole shoes were as much as 21
thou.off,the arm.iron4 thou off.The comm.2 thou.off.These parts were turned on a
lathe 3 years ago,to tighten up the arm.to field shoe clearence to 15 thou.This
gave me a great increase in off the line torque even though I had as much as
36thou.gap.Re shimmed the gap is much,much closer now.
I expect more torque off the line and with my
moving brush rigging still expect to make lots of rpm at the other
end,Question will this mod make more torque per amp/volt for the entire qt. mi?Is
there
something I am missing?Dyno time soon,to the track late aug. Dennis
Kilowatt Berube
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It's a little like using a butter knife for a screw driver , It will work
but it's hard on the screw(batteries) hard on the butter knife(light
dimmer,tool controller) and your wife doesn't like it ( everything that has
a transformer/motor in it that's in your house will run hotter and in time
may stop working) . When you hook a 120v battery pack to the 120ac house
voltage ,which has (or should I say had )a peak to peak voltage of 170 but
now is clamped to a lower peak voltage of your battery pack. Putting a coil
of some sort in series will help your house some but is far from a real
battery charger. The PFC-20 was the first real battery charger I ever owned
and after 10 years of fooling around making home made chargers I was really
imprested . I like the way it will keep putting out the amp right up to the
voltage that I set it for , all the stuff I've made or seen starts to taper
off on the amps as the voltage rises and buy the time it gets close to 140v
it's down to 5 amps . Set the PFC for 148v and you'll still be pumping 20
amps at 145v ( with 240ac in) . I have a 120 v outlet in the front of my
house which has a 20amp breaker , the most I could pull without popping the
breaker was 15 amps which if it didn't taper off soon would pop, but with
the PFC-20 I can get 17 amps .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 4:07 AM
Subject: AC-to-DC motor controllers as chargers
> In searching for motor controllers, I have noted a lot of controllers that
> allow varying the speed of a DC motor run off of the AC line, such as for
> lathes and such. Can one of these be used as a battery charger, sort of
like
> a variable power supply, or is there something that prevents this use?
>
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