EV Digest 2886
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Sunshine and Fast Electrons to Prevail on Sunday
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Power supply currents, was Re: Battery Cycler project
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV Scooter advice
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV Scooter advice
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Anybody dump charging ?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Sunshine and Fast Electrons to Prevail on Sunday
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Power supply currents, was Re: Battery Cycler project
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Long trip
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Life vs Temp. was: straight cut gears....
by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Radio Reception and EMF interference
by "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Meter damping
by Lesley Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Manufacturing EVs (was: RE: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is
dirty)
by "tom peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: AS much as I dare.
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Questions about Russco Chargers
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery Life vs Temp. Optimas....
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Scooter advice
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Radio Reception and EMF interference
by "tgleeman2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Radio Reception and EMF interference
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Anybody dump charging ?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Battery Life vs Temp. Optimas....
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: ebay EVs: nEVs, Forces, conversions, Escooters
by "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EV Album Updates and Help Contacting Keith Ward
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Anybody dump charging ?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: LiIon conclusions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Radio Reception and EMF interference
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Meter damping
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Chip Gribben wrote:
> Fabulous weather is expected for this Sunday's (06/29) EVA/DC *Power of DC
> 3rd Annual East Coast Electric Drag Races at Mason-Dixon Dragway in
> Hagerstown, MD. Gates open at 9:00 a.m. and racing begins at 1:00 p.m.
Sounds like fun! Good luck to all the electric drag racers...shred a few tires and rip
off
some quick ETs for Plasma Boy.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> From: "The Levine Family"
> > If you put any 2 power supplies in series, is you current output then the
> > lesser of the 2?
>
> They add until the current and voltage settings are met in each PS when
> connected in series.
>
In a series circuit, current NEVER adds. The current is always the same
in the whole circuit and is set by the component with the least current
going through it.
So he was correct, current will be set by the lesser of the two.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The EV Warrior's two Bosch motors were connected in parallel powered by two
> 12V batteries in series. I think you will be amazed at the difference you
> get by adding the second battery. A note of caution, DON'T LET YOUR SON BE
> THE FIRST TO TEST THIS! The EV Warrior motors are 350W each (total of 700W,
> almost 1 HP, and more power than most of the factory built scooters on the
> market) at 24V and are designed to push the bike at over 20 MPH.
That's MAX power output, you'll melt the motors after about a minute at
that level.
The EV warrior motors are rated to draw 20A @ 24V, about 240 watts.
They are approx. 55% efficient at 240 watts input so rated power output
is about 130 watts each.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 23:22, Joe Smalley wrote:
> Parallel will give more range at the same speed.
>
> Series will give more power and less range.
Less range that the parallel batteries, but more range than just one
battery. Yes you will be draining the batteries faster, but you will
also be moving twice as fast.
>
> You will need a speed control to keep it safe for the kids.
Definitely.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are a little confused. Steve Clunn was doing the pulling. Not me.
The pulling out is done during the charge (discharge), not before.
I will explain the technique anyway.
You start out with all the batteries in series.
Connect the charger (or load) and dial in the desired current. (I like 25
amps)
Start a timer.
Measure all the battery voltages ever 5, 10 or 15 minutes (depending on the
condition of the batteries).
When the one get full (or empty) you will then:
Turn off the charger (or load).
Stop the timer
Disconnect the wire from the negative terminal of the battery being
removed from the string.
Connect the wire that was going to the negative terminal to the positive
terminal.
Turn the charger (or load) back up to the desired current.
Restart the timer.
Resume checking voltages.
This process repeats until there are no more batteries in the string.
The capacity of each battery in ampere hours is the (time in minutes)*(test
current)/60.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: Anybody dump charging ?
> Ok Joe,
> How do you "pull out" the weak batteries, 65 to 72 pounds each all tied
> together with heavy cables, so the weak batteries will get charged first
> ?
> Menlo Park III,
> Bill
>
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:15:54 -0700 "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> > If you have a variac and a bridge, it is commonly called a "variac
> > charger."
> >
> > If you have a variac and an isolation transformer and a bridge, it
> > is
> > commonly called an "isolated variac charger."
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 11:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: Anybody dump charging ?
> >
> >
> > > Charging them back is almost as easy ,I have a variable
> > transformer with
> > > bad
> > > boy ( would that be a controlled bad boy )and do the same thing ,
> > charge
> > > them all then pull out the week one's as they fill (readjusting
> > the
> > variable
> > > transformer as i go ), the weakest one's will charge first.
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> We will also accept orders for videos taken by EVA/DC member Greg
Crabtree's
> video crew.
Wish I could be there , Yes I want one of these video's. Next year I will
get up there :-) .
> Also, Chip welcomes everyone -- racers and EV spectators -- to join us
for
> dinner at a localItalian restaurant following the event.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OOPS, My bad, you are correct Peter, I should have said parallel not series.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Power supply currents, was Re: Battery Cycler project
> > From: "The Levine Family"
> > > If you put any 2 power supplies in series, is you current output then
the
> > > lesser of the 2?
> >
> > They add until the current and voltage settings are met in each PS when
> > connected in series.
> >
>
> In a series circuit, current NEVER adds. The current is always the same
> in the whole circuit and is set by the component with the least current
> going through it.
>
> So he was correct, current will be set by the lesser of the two.
>
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got 20 Exide Orbital orb34-36 Marine deep cycle batteries form my
local batteries store. They don't sell YT's but These look just like them.
I didn't see "starter/ deep cycle on them like the one's I got for Paul's
car but I did see 925amps [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I got a very good deal as I had just
done some work on there Electric boat but am a little worried that I didn't
see Starter/deep cycle. I will be putting them in my 924 Porsche later put
for now There in the back of the EV Mazda and I'm getting ready to make that
long trip (with 20 golf carters and 2 strings of orbital's ) . I may have a
buyer for the Mitsubice truck that Jon Halquest (self appointed EV sales
man) is driving . So I will be taking him the EV Mazda truck and bring back
the Mitsubise . Jon is further away the I first though 150 miles . Paul the
EV Porsche dealer :-) is 80 miles from me on the way to Jon's . The plan
right now is to drive to Paul's and charge there while doing some work on
his car , then head on to Jon's . The first day when I picked up the bats
and drove around with them in the back (pushed as far forward as possible) I
though the truck felt very heavy but after a few days it doesn't feel so bad
. I drove it 60 miles Friday and the voltage was surprising hi when I got
home ( still around 11.5 with 80 amp load). I'm wondering if there is a
record for the furthers miles driven in Florida ?
This will be MY first pack of orbital batteries , I'm waking them up slowly
with short cycles and charging them back full , trying to get as may cycles
on them before the long trip. There in parrellel with the golfcart batteries
right now .
Any body using these YT wan to be's
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
evranger wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I'm curious about how many total miles you have on your 7 year old YTs? On
> my 3 year olds, the best I've seen is 15,000. Worst was 6,000.
>
> Dave
I have 7000 miles on them.
...John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe,
Thanks for the response. It'll take me a few days to act on your advice
since I don't have an oscilloscope and will have to borrow one.
The resistor part should be easy since the meter is shunted and I can
buy a shunt pack that should contain an identical one.
--
Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
LRW at clear.net.nz
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/460.html
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/lrw
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
I'm getting caught up on reading the list. Yes I'm a little slow. One
thing we have to remember is the mechanics integrity. My daughter was
killed in a vehicle that had just been certified safe. The Utah Highway
Patrol found the brakes were not safe, the steering was not safe and the
tires were not safe..."the left front tire was a different size and kind".
"But there was nothing that would cause a catastrophic accident". The DOT
administrator destroyed some of the evidence. The Mormon Mafia is hard at
work in Utah.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:48 AM
Subject: RE: Manufacturing EVs (was: RE: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says
electric rail is dirty)
> billglic wrote:
>
> > I don't think it is a good idea to try and sell EVs that are
> > not atleast as safe as their ICE counterparts as it could
> > only take one crash to end the business.
>
> A successful EV has to be perceived by the public as truly ready for
> public consumption. This includes crash safety.
>
> I may be mistaken here, but I detect an implication that a small, light
> EV must necessarily be inferior to "normal" cars in terms of crash
> safety. That's not true. If I needed to pick a car based solely on
> crash safety, and had to choose between an SUV and a purpose-built tube
> frame sports racing car in the ~2 liter class, it's no contest. The
> race car has a much better chance of keeping me alive. There's no
> reason the same construction principles can't be applied to a consumer
> vehicle. In fact, you're almost forced into it due to tooling costs.
>
> As for one crash ending the business, I think that's a little
> overstated. The huge damage awards you hear about are a small minority.
> A plaintiff needs to prove negligence.
>
> For me it's an enormous, sobering responsibility to design a vehicle
> that keeps people alive. I know that if I were to ever actually build
> and sell enough vehicles, somewhere, sometime, someone is going to die
> in one. I'm not sure how I'd handle that. I know that accidents are
> uncontrolled events, and you simply can't cover all contingencies. The
> best you can do is put everything you have into improving the drivers'
> odds. Take that responsibility seriously, and the company should be in
> good shape.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> I read your POST saying you want to know about EV
> chargers as you will need one for the EV project
> you are working on.
>
>
>
> When asked, 'Is it really worth the cost to buy a
> a PFC-50 over a PFC-50?' I say yes. Example: when
> plugged in at a Costco AVCON 208 VAC source, the
> PFC-20 would give me 20 amps into my pack. My PFC-50
> gives me 36.6 amps (@ 150 VDC). On my EV, I regain
> 4 miles of range back into my pack for every hour
> of charge at 10 amps. That's 8 miles back for every
> hour with a PFC-20, and 15 miles back for every
> hour with my PFC-50. That's close enough to double
> the power, or half the time. In other words its
> the difference between a four hour wait (PFC-20)
> and a two hour wait (PFC-50) for a 80% recharge.
>
> Having said that, better designs are always being
> made. I would wait until you are at the point to
> need the charger (before you receive the batteries),
> before you finalize what charger you buy.
>
> I want to push a point many over look. They should
> not 'go cheap' on their charger. Many EV drivers
> spend tons of money on EV performance, but have a
> wimpy charger. Wouldn't that be like having a
> Lamborghini performance, but have a soda straw to
> refuel the tank?
>
> I would rather have one good charger like my PFC-50,
> than a cool sound system. Then again, ...
> I am not John Wayland :-)
>
Oh boy I am gonna have fun with this one.
And if Bruce would find a REAL 50 amp 240 VAC outlet, like the 14-50
plug on the end of the PFC50's Ac cord is made for, He would get 70+
amps into his 150 volt battery.
A 30 amp 208 outlet doen't even get you %50 of what a PFC50 can stuff
into the pack.
So Bruce can double again this 15 miles per hour recharge rate.
And Plasmaboy Wayland HAS a PFC20(er more like 25) It makes 30 amps
into his 156v Optima pack. That's one healthy PFC20. It also dances on
the limits of the componets inside the pretty green box. Nice but I will
get poor if I make a bunch like it. It's just too close to the edge.
But have no Fear Madman has some more tricks to play. The PFC30... or
as much as I dare Take 2. First let it be known that I will have the
first one. NOT Wayland.
We have some new componets that look like they will enable the next
jump. I should have samples in days, Droooool! Dad has some of the
goodies in the last Rev 5 sheet metal, so I will have one to play with.
I have as much of the 6 fin per inch bonded fin heatsink stuffed into
the tunnel, a whole tube of 80 amp Igbts, and killer fans.
Geez the darn thing will have to sport #8 gage cables!! What a pain!,
But got amps?? GOTTA have copper!. We are going to get as much of that
40 amp 240volt outlet in down town Portland as we can. The hard part is
Plama boy won't let me stuff a PFC50 case in his Datsun.
I will have one at Woodburn, and a couple of PFC50s for sure.
If these get made in more than one or two zies, they will be available
after Woodburn, 03.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
>
> >I would rather have one good charger like my PFC-50,
> >than a cool sound system. Then again, ...
> > I am not John Wayland :-)
>
> Me either. I don't want to have to lug around multiple chargers just
> to be able to access whatever power I may come across. I'd much
> rather have one flexible charger.
> --
>
This is the primary goal of the Manzanita chargers, flexability in
source and in battery pack targets.
One charger does all, take what ever juice you can, Get as much as
possible into the pack, as fast as possible.
A Rather simple concept.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
evranger wrote:
John,
I'm curious about how many total miles you have on your 7 year old YTs? On
my 3 year olds, the best I've seen is 15,000. Worst was 6,000.
Dave
I have 7000 miles on them.
...John
That's great to hear John.
I think that we are very close to having some interesting information here.
There are a couple other factors that make a big difference in
battery lifetime: The number of Yellow Tops in the car and the
average energy use of the car.
In my case, for my 914 CAPOPE, I use an average of 360 wh/mile when I
drive. This is just taken off the Emeter on several average drives
where I use about 1.5 ah/mile and I have a 240V pack. (1.5 x 240 =
360) The car has 20 Optimas.
I have 4000 miles on my Optimas. They do not have battery monitoring
or a smart charger. (I use a Variac and a timer from McMaster
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/108/html/0781.html ) My Optimas are
starting to drop off now. My math says that I have run 72kwh through
each battery.
If I used less energy, or had more batteries I would expect more life.
I remember Alan Cocconi claiming to get 30,000 miles on a set of 28
Optimas in his Honda. This is not surprising since I think his car
only uses about 130 wh/mile. If he averages 130wh/mile then I'm
calculating that he gets 140kwh per optima before they wear out. He
also has sophisticated battery equalization, temperature regulation
and relatively low current draws.
Anyone else have real life numbers on their Optimas? I would be
curious to know the mileage, number of batteries and the average (not
best possible, but what you normally do) energy per mile and the
relative condition of the batteries.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I don't think it is more batteries you need, it is more relays. Since you
> have two motors you can build a parallel/series switch like some of the drag
> racers use. I would tell you how to do it, but since I have never done it
That will certainly work to slow it down, but I think he wants to make
it faster. The motors are already in parallel (fast mode), wiring them
in series (slow mode) will give him more torque but cut his current
sluggish speed in half.
He needs to add a battery in series to go faster.
> myself I would probably tell you wrong. Someone else on the list will have
> to fill you in on the details.
>
> Are you using the friction drive? My first EV was converting one of the
> kids scooter for them, but the friction drive was it's weak link. They
> loved to ride it though. One of these days I need to get a better drive
> worked out and put it back together for them. Trouble is I spend all my EV
> time tinkering with my motorcycle.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: EV Scooter advice
> >Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:57:46 GMT
> >
> >
> >Just finished my son's EV scooter--a converted GO-Ped with 2 Bosch motors
> >originally for EV Warrior.
> >
> >I have the two motors wired in parallel, with one 12V battery. It's a bit
> >sluggish because the spindle diameter is designed to work on a bicycle
> >tire, with much larger diameter. No controller yet, just 30A auto relay
> >for ON/OFF.
> >
> >With 100 lb son riding it, it pulls 15A on level surface. Goes approx
> >8-10 mph.
> >
> >I'm going to try a second battery to give it more power. Looking for
> >advice: wire the second battery in parallel or series? I believe that
> >these motors are rated for 12-24V.
> >
> >Thanks, in advance for your advice.
> >Chuck
> >
> >________________________________________________________________
> >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: Radio Reception and EMF interference
I have two EV's (Corbin Sparrow and Electric Shopper) with the same problem
that I assume is universal in EV's - horrendous radio reception due to EMF
interference - particularly in AM. Is there any miracle product (other than
a 40 foot tall antenna) that can make the radio reception better?
Seth Dallob
Hi Seth,
Tooling down the road in your EV without some tunes. Wow. The only cure for
Electro-Magnetic Interference or
EMI that I know of is to shield your controller and every wire going in or
out of your controller box. Some systems
have EMI filters on the cabling also.
It might help if the power leads of your radio had an EMI filter and the
radio itself had a noise blanker in the IF section. Also make sure the
antenna is the best you can buy.
I'm sorry to say that this still might not provide a solution. Any other
suggestions out there?
Happy EV'ing, Seth.
Tom Gleeman
San Diego, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have two EV's (Corbin Sparrow and Electric Shopper) with the same problem
> that I assume is universal in EV's - horrendous radio reception due to EMF
> interference - particularly in AM. Is there any miracle product (other than
> a 40 foot tall antenna) that can make the radio reception better?
-snip-
> I'm sorry to say that this still might not provide a solution. Any other
> suggestions out there?
>
CD players and FM radios. The EFI doesn't bother either in my truck,
but then it has a really low frequency (2-4 khz IIRC) controller.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry I wasn't clear on that , all batteries stay in one place , the pulling
out is just moving the one wire along the batteries line .The other wire
which is on the best battery's + stays put .
Joe explains it well , the timer is a good idea also .If you have extra
batteries you need to do somthing to keep them alive.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: Anybody dump charging ?
> You are a little confused. Steve Clunn was doing the pulling. Not me.
>
> The pulling out is done during the charge (discharge), not before.
>
> I will explain the technique anyway.
>
> You start out with all the batteries in series.
> Connect the charger (or load) and dial in the desired current. (I like 25
> amps)
> Start a timer.
> Measure all the battery voltages ever 5, 10 or 15 minutes (depending on
the
> condition of the batteries).
> When the one get full (or empty) you will then:
> Turn off the charger (or load).
> Stop the timer
> Disconnect the wire from the negative terminal of the battery being
> removed from the string.
> Connect the wire that was going to the negative terminal to the
positive
> terminal.
> Turn the charger (or load) back up to the desired current.
> Restart the timer.
> Resume checking voltages.
>
> This process repeats until there are no more batteries in the string.
>
> The capacity of each battery in ampere hours is the (time in
minutes)*(test
> current)/60.
>
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 5:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Anybody dump charging ?
>
>
> > Ok Joe,
> > How do you "pull out" the weak batteries, 65 to 72 pounds each all tied
> > together with heavy cables, so the weak batteries will get charged
first
> > ?
> > Menlo Park III,
> > Bill
> >
> > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:15:54 -0700 "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > writes:
> > > If you have a variac and a bridge, it is commonly called a "variac
> > > charger."
> > >
> > > If you have a variac and an isolation transformer and a bridge, it
> > > is
> > > commonly called an "isolated variac charger."
> > >
> > > Joe Smalley
> > > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > > Fiesta 48 volts
> > > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 11:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Anybody dump charging ?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Charging them back is almost as easy ,I have a variable
> > > transformer with
> > > > bad
> > > > boy ( would that be a controlled bad boy )and do the same thing ,
> > > charge
> > > > them all then pull out the week one's as they fill (readjusting
> > > the
> > > variable
> > > > transformer as i go ), the weakest one's will charge first.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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Otmar,
My Sparrow easily does 150wh/m when driving reasonably. But I've mostly been
commuting the diamond lane at 70-75mph, so my performance for this pack I
just replaced was:
average wh/mile after recharging = 185
total mileage = ~6900 miles
pack size = 156v (YTs)
average performance = 185wh/mile / 156v = 1.2 ah/mile
energy used by each Optima = 7000*.185/13 = 99.6kwh
Still have life on the batteries, but one was dropping out after about 12-13
miles on my 18 mile commute leg. At the end, it was dropping down to <3v
under load, and would bounce back to 5-6v and back to 12+ when
quick-charging with the rest of the pack.
Anyhow, using rudman regs and fast PFC charging. Always bulk charged and
every 2-3 cycles brought pack up to finishing charge. Never really
equalized. Had a total of 440 recharges, of which 360 were deep cycle
recharges.
Also, battery pack was never really "new" - set had been shelved for 2-3+
years before I got them. Batteries were kept warm during the cooler months
just by daily usage and quick recharging. Now I have a brand new set and
going to see how well they hold up.
BR,
Ed Thorpe
(just upgraded to 168v in a DCP Raptor, PFC-50 Sparrow)
-----Original Message-----
From: Otmar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 3:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery Life vs Temp. Optimas....
>evranger wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I'm curious about how many total miles you have on your 7 year old YTs?
On
>> my 3 year olds, the best I've seen is 15,000. Worst was 6,000.
>>
>> Dave
>
>I have 7000 miles on them.
>
>...John
In my case, for my 914 CAPOPE, I use an average of 360 wh/mile when I
drive. This is just taken off the Emeter on several average drives
where I use about 1.5 ah/mile and I have a 240V pack. (1.5 x 240 =
360) The car has 20 Optimas.
I have 4000 miles on my Optimas. They do not have battery monitoring
or a smart charger. (I use a Variac and a timer from McMaster
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/108/html/0781.html ) My Optimas are
starting to drop off now. My math says that I have run 72kwh through
each battery.
If I used less energy, or had more batteries I would expect more life.
I remember Alan Cocconi claiming to get 30,000 miles on a set of 28
Optimas in his Honda. This is not surprising since I think his car
only uses about 130 wh/mile. If he averages 130wh/mile then I'm
calculating that he gets 140kwh per optima before they wear out. He
also has sophisticated battery equalization, temperature regulation
and relatively low current draws.
Anyone else have real life numbers on their Optimas? I would be
curious to know the mileage, number of batteries and the average (not
best possible, but what you normally do) energy per mile and the
relative condition of the batteries.
--
-Otmar-
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But:
- some of the sellers are dealerships, and really don't know anything about
the vehicles.
- there is no "electric vehicle" category, so searches omit some vehicles
while giving false finds.
- note "electric green" toyota spyder is not electric (see above)
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 7:51 PM
Subject: ebay EVs: nEVs, Forces, conversions, Escooters
> ebay motors has a selection of EVs for sale
>
http://search.ebaymotors.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&SortProperty=MetaHighestPriceSort&query=electric&from=R8&ebaytag1=ebayreg&siteid=100&s_partnerid=2&categorymap=6000&category0=6000&combine=y&st=2
>
> I am wondering if ebay motors isn't a better
> forum for selling one's EV?
>
> -visibility is very good
> -you can put all the images and text needed
> -and payment seems easy and secure
>
> The EVs for sale are:
>
> A Think nEV, plenty-o-gems, and a Bombardier nEV
> Bombardier is still selling these for $8k?
>
> There is Chuck's Jet Industries conversion
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2421031805
> REASON FOR SALE: I have 3 EV's and my wife say's
> something must go. I don't want it to be me :-)
>
> There are a couple of low cost Solectria Force EVs
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420842682
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420847679
>
> And for those that want to cut their teeth on a
> starter EV, there are plenty-o-electric-scooters
> below $150
>
http://search.ebaymotors.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&SortProperty=MetaLowestPriceSort&query=%22Electric+Scooter%22&from=R7&ebaytag1=ebayreg&siteid=100&ht=1&categorymap=6000&category0=6000&combine=y&st=2
>
> But watch out for this $50 special
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420944738
>
> With the tacked on charges listed at the bottom
> the $50 Escooter is really $130 and sold 'as-is'.
> (I smell a rip-off)
>
> Hmmm, maybe trying to sell your EV amounst
> rip offs is the negative part of ebay.
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I have been trying to get the EV Album fully updated, and I have run into a
few problems. One of those seems to be a miss-typed email address. I have
been trying to reach Keith Ward of Coventry, England sine April about his
two page, which have been up awaiting his review. Unfortunately, any email
to the account he put on the form bounces.
Keith, if you are on the EVDL please contact me. If anyone knows Keith and
can get a message to him, please pass this along. If I don't hear from
Keith I will have to remove his pages without them ever getting posted to
the Album. Unfortunately this will not be the first time this kind of
thing has happened.
For those of you who have submitted an entry and have not yet heard from
me, give me another day and I should have your page(s) ready for review and
you will be informed as to where to find it. Also, for those who submitted
them, the six new ads for the EV Tradin' Post should be up tomorrow.
For those of you who have submitted and entry and been contacted by me but
have not responded, please do. These completed pages awaiting approval
kind of gum up the works and are difficult to work around.
For those who submitted an Album entry without pictures, you should have
gotten a note from me by now asking for images. If not, just upload them
so I won't have to ask. :^) For those who loaded pictures with filling
out the form, please do so. Every entry must have both to be of any value.
One other note. Please so not submit copyrighted pictures unless you own
the copyright. I really don't want to get into any legal tangles.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I read you want to 'dump' charge. To me this means
> a 200 amp (or higher) charge current rate. This
> similar to what John Wayland does by carrying
> around an additional set of batteries with him to
> http://nedra.com races.
>
> His method is to monitor the EV pack's voltage
> and current, then connect the external pack
> directly to the EV's pack.
> As John's EV pack voltage rises, the current tapers
> (drops) off. The EV's pack may not be charged before
> this happens.
>
> So, John would disconnect the dump charge pack,
> manually add another battery, and then reconnect
> the bumped up dump pack to the EV's pack (still
> monitoring the EV's voltage and charge current).
>
> When the EV's pack surface voltage reached a
> certain point (and the EV's AGM batteries are
> starting to steam), John disconnects and gets back
> in line to race again.
Yes, my large friend Bruce P. was at my side many times at many races, and he recalls
my
older method exactly right, however, I actually haven't had to add-in an extra battery
for
several years now, as through experimentation, I found the right combination that works
perfectly for my situation. One has to carefully consider things to make sure the
batteries in both the dump charge pack and the receiving pack, are compatible in both
their pack voltages and interior battery construction (robust terminals, thick
inter-cell
straps, etc.).
For my situation, I use a 204V dump pack for charging (what works out to be) a 168V
receiving pack. The dump charge pack has to have considerably more ahrs capacity over
the
receiving pack, in order to quickly pour in juice to the hungry receiving pack. In my
case, I use 17 Optima YTs at 204V to feed 28 Hawker 16 ahr racing batteries.
Though my race car has a 336V pack made up of 28 of the small (13.5 lbs. each) but
feisty
Hawkers, when the car's main contactor shuts down, another contactor within the car's
battery pack box, opens to split the 336V pack into two packs at 168V each. After being
discharged at the C .03 rate, the Hawkers are really looking to get recharged!
There are also twin 'charging contactors' and four beefy safety fuses in the trunk just
behind the pack, so that when the ign. key is off and all safety interlock micro
switches
say 'all is OK', the contactors automatically parallel the two 168V packs when the gas
filler door is opened when a grounding pin switch gives the 'go' signal. Now the two
positives and the two negatives of the two 168V Hawker strings are connected together
(through 150A per leg fuses) to make a single 32 ahr, 168V pack.
After this, it's essentially a rude and raw charging technique, but both the Optimas
and
the Hawkers are well up to the task. My dump charger board consists of a baby Optima
12V
battery to supply coil juice to a Kilovac EV250-2A Czonka II EVX 250 amp, 320 vdc
contactor (with an internal coil economizer circuit) through a toggle switch to turn
the
contactor on and off, heavy gauge wires on the dump board, a 350 amp Anderson feed-in
connector, and a 175 amp Anderson output connector. A 25 foot, dual 4 gauge charging
cable
with 175 amp Andersons at each end, completes the circuit from the dump charge output
into
the 175 amp Anderson at the Zombie's gas filler area.
When the dump charger switch is flipped, the Kilovac contactor pulls in and 225 amps
flow
out of the Optimas and into the thirsty 168V pack of Hawkers (each individual Hawker
gets
about 112 amps during this initial high charge rate)...the Hawkers rise to about 175V
as
the Optimas kneel to 175V. The current stays at 200 amps or above for the first 2
minutes
as the 4 gauge charging cable gets warm....this on purpose, as it acts as a nifty and
simply series resistor. The current ramps down into the 180 amp -150 amp range for the
third minute as both the Hawkers and the Optimas rise to near 190V. This is about an
80%
charge in 3 minutes! The next few minutes sees the current dropping from triple to
double
digit currents, as as both the Hawkers and the Optimas rise to over 200V. The final two
minutes, the current eventually goes to 4 amps or so when the batteries are all at 210V
(this is 2 amps per Hawker for a rough equalization charge)....charge complete in 8
minutes, ready to rock again!
For those cringing over what you have just read, keep in mind that the five year old
pack
of Hawkers, other than those pour souls who gave their life in the quest of low 13
second
quarter mile times (largely from fused inter-cell straps at 800+ amp discharge
currents),
have thrived under this charging system.
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler wrote:
> On the Thunder Sky web site, TS claim that the batts can pump out
> 3CA.
I have four TS-90AP cells. They can, but only with a severe voltage sag,
and only for a few seconds. They heat up very fast, too, so I suspect
this is not at all good for them.
> (Boy do I hope that they get better with a bit more use...)
I've run 10 cycles on them, and see no evidence of any reduction in
internal resistance. I think this is just how they are built.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
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Not all EVs have a RFI issue. But most conversions do.
I can hear the controller RFI when I have my radio on
the AM band, but not on the FM band.
Years ago, when I drove a USAF jeep full of transceivers
as a 30454 Ground Radio Repairman, there was no RFI
or EMI interference from the engine, alternator,
external genset, or from the other transceivers on at
the same time. All the cables were completely shielded.
But in my Blazer EV, my cables are not shielded.
A 40 foot antenna would only pick up more RFI. Shielding
connected to ground is what is needed. If you only
shielded the controller, you may still have the rest
of the wiring and motor acting as a 40 foot antenna
to radiate the RFI.
If you are getting RFI on the FM band, I think you
ought to try another radio first or perhaps your
antenna is not grounded properly.
I had a separate problem from controller RFI. My Todd
DC2DC was generating RFI when it was on. The DC
output had a high frequency noise that came through
the 12 V power to the radio.
A simple car audio RFI filter bought at an Auto store
resolved that. You know if you have that problem if
you an hear it when the EV is stopped and the controller
is not being used.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lesley Walker wrote:
> can I damp out these oscillations by just hooking a capacitor across
> the meter? What's a good size to start trying with?
A capacitor won't work because the shunt is an almost 0 ohm resistor
across it.
But, there are two ways to damp the meter. First, you can add a resistor
in series with the meter; this lowers the meter reading, but provides
some resistance so you can put a capacitor across the meter. The damping
is this series resistance times the capacitor value. For example, 10
ohms x 1000uF = 0.01 second (1 cycle at 50 Hz).
Or, you can put an inductor in series with the meter. The inductor works
with the meter's internal resistance to form an L/R filter. For example,
1 henry / 100 ohms = 0.01 sec.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
--- End Message ---
