EV Digest 2894
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: AC motor/controller suppliers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Gasless on Greenwood AV.
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) OT-Worm Alert SobigC
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: ampabout
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: I'm back! -and- help with Project GTI
by Nathaniel Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) AOL 8.0
by "paul compton (RRes-Roth)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Back On Topic: Re: OT-Worm Alert SobigC
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: EVLN(Ford Ranger EV ticketed for leaving motor running)
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Exide Orbitals vs Yellowtops
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Back On Topic: Re: OT-Worm Alert SobigC
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Fuel Cell optomism compared to battery EV's
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) MB80 Discharge curve
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Registration fees and fuel taxes, WAS: How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) OT: Killer Stereo, 130k watts
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: MB80 Discharge curve
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT: Killer Stereo, 130k watts
by Travis Raybold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: ampabout
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Bad Boy Charger Usage
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Although I already have an EV (Jet Electrica) I am considering building
something from the ground-up, i.e. fabricating one, likely from various
kit-car and hotrod components, including the frame and suspension.
Since this would essentially be a "new" kit car, I was wondering how I would
deal with the DMV on this. I'm sure it varies state-to-state, but does
anyone know the general issues involved? How do states typically handle
this kind of situation? (I am in WA state, Seattle area.) Will I need to
start with a "donor" car, even if nothing except the serial plate and title
from it gets used? Or, can I "manufacture" my own car get a title issue for
it without going through federal crash tests, etc.?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.baldor.com/default.asp
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: AC motor/controller suppliers
> On 1 Jul 2003 at 22:21, Doug Martin wrote:
>
> > Anyone know of more suppliers/manufacturers of AC drive
> > components?
>
> Solectria, MA: http://www.solectria.com
>
> Brusa, Switzerland: http://www.brusa.biz
>
> EMS, Cincinnati OH: http://members.aol.com/evguru/evc2600.html
>
> AC Electric Vehicles, Finland: http://www.acev.fi/
>
> I've probably forgotten a bunch.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You must mean my good friend Steve Lowe ;-)
Roderick
oops, I'm not very good with names and was just repeating what Steves
newsletter said.
Sorry Tom.
Anyway,
41 new messages left..
L8r
Ryan
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hi Ryan,
I would assume we have never met. I'm Roderick Wilde and if the Rodric you
were referring to is me I'm sorry to say that I was unable to attend the
show. I believe it may have been Tom True you were referring to who is
Father Time's son and a major owner of EV Parts Inc. Thanks for the great
post though and I loved your analogy! I was amazed that the gas guys voted
the electric street rod Best of Show. I guess it still has some spark. Pun
intended. When we first built it in 1995 we entered it in the 6th annual
Spring Nationals in Pomona California and it was voted one of the top ten by
Street Rodder Magazine and was also featured in their Sept. '95 issue. It
was also on the front cover of Street Rod Action in the Sept. '95 issue and
a featured car in two international auto shows. It's been shown in several
shows since including The Concurs de Elegance show in Palm Springs and in
2000 it took a first place in The Portland Roadster Show. I feel it has been
a great tool to open peoples minds to the idea of electric propulsion. I see
a new company has been formed to build and sell electric street rods,
Phoenix Motorcars Inc. <http://PhoenixMotorcars.com> I wish them luck. I
don't agree with their drive train layout though from purely an esthetic
point of view. Ryan, I look forward to meeting you in person at Woodburn. I
still may have a few surprises left hidden up my sleeve.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Fulcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: Gasless on Greenwood AV.
I and perhaps U did not see this part of the message...
Just a SMALL correction. The trophy was for BEST IN SHOW as voted
by the participants.-Tom True
Cause I only saw this...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
Anyway, "Best-of-Kind" kinna sounds like out of the 6 EV's...
oO(GEM, Roadster, VW Pickup, Porsche, Sparrow, Pair of Drag Bikes) 7
oO(Not including the scooters, bikes, and Bar Stool that were there)
Out of 7 EV's it was the best? (I picked the Bar Stool ;)
Steven S. Lough wrote:
We had a GEM N.E.V. thanks to Tom True of EV Parts. And we also had
Rodric Wildes Ford Roadster, which by the way WON a Trophy ! A big
trophy! for I guess Best-of-Kind. Many thanks to Rodric of EV Parts,
and Tom for bringing the car, and all the work that went into that.
It was actually "Best of Show"!
Out of the ~400 Customs, Classics, and exotic cars there;
the Yellow Electric Roadster was voted best of show!
.oO(Thats like Eminem(Rapper) winning a Country Music Award.)
I was thrilled, though strangely not all that surprised....
Rodric was there at the roadster with Don "Father Time" Crabtree
and his drag bikes just in front of it (they ran out of room for us).
Some motor head strolled up and began grilling Don on what kind of
tranny the roadster had, thinking it was his. As Don struggled for
the answer the grease monkey continued, I believe asking about the
rear end. I was gettin a little miffed when Rodric stepped in with,
It's got a something-such differential and watcha-who-wapper tranny.
It appeared that the smart mouth recognized these particular parts
and was a little taken back. So as he stood there baffled Rodric
hit him with the "Ya, and it does a 16 second 1/4 miles.". Over
the course of the next 60 seconds the Neanderthal struggled to
integrate this apparently unbelievable information. Searching both
Rodric and Don for the slightest smile or twinge of sarcasm. "NOooo."
he proclaimed, but Rodric reassured him that it would infact, and that
it wasn't even all that fast compaired to other more "specialized"
projects. I think a wheelie pulling mazda was mentioned. After a
few more minutes of trying to get to the bottom of this EV stuff
he left seeming rather convinced. Though I don't think we have a
new EV enthusiast, I know that there is one more Joe Hot Rodder
out there that now knows the truth. I wouldn't be surprised to see
him at a NEDRA EVent, Of course probably not till fuel gets a little
harder to find.
Anyway, I wanted to congratulate Rodric once again. And
thank Don for letting me ride the little yellow drag bike.
It was a blast and now I'm itchin to get an EV Commuter Bike,
maybe I can convert my ex500 or something.
L8r
Ryan
--
Roderick Wilde
Vintage Golf Cart Parts
Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 360-385-4868
Fax: 360-385-7922
107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave;
I live in Washington as well.
I just titled a vintage sand rail and found the title was the easy part. You
just need to show receipts for the components to the state patrol and they
will issue a chassis serial number.
The problem I ran into was insurance. They need a manufacturer to fill in
their blank. Because the manufacturer was "HOMEMADE" instead of one of the
established manufacturers, Allstate would not insure the vehicle. IF I would
have used "VW", there would have been no problem.
I would advise you to list a manufacturer to get around this, even if the
only thing you use from that manufacturer is a transaxle or instrument
cluster or suspension or steering wheel or steering box, etc.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:39 PM
Subject: How to title a ground-up EV project
> Although I already have an EV (Jet Electrica) I am considering building
> something from the ground-up, i.e. fabricating one, likely from various
> kit-car and hotrod components, including the frame and suspension.
>
> Since this would essentially be a "new" kit car, I was wondering how I
would
> deal with the DMV on this. I'm sure it varies state-to-state, but does
> anyone know the general issues involved? How do states typically handle
> this kind of situation? (I am in WA state, Seattle area.) Will I need to
> start with a "donor" car, even if nothing except the serial plate and
title
> from it gets used? Or, can I "manufacture" my own car get a title issue
for
> it without going through federal crash tests, etc.?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
While catching up on my E-mail today my AVG virus scan caught a Worm/Virus
called SobigC. Apparently propigates thru e-mail and has been found using
spoofed address' from Microsoft support etc. It will have an attachment that
can have most anything as the .xxx extension. IE, pif, zip, doc etc. One of
the main files is winssk.exe. will be found in the windows directory on your
main hdd. Havn't figured out how to get rid of it so far. AVG finds it and
tries to isolate it but windows XP will not let AVG move the file. I don't
think I my comp has sent out anything dangerous as I have my firewall locked
down pretty tight and it denies winssk.exe access to the net, but if you
happen to get an e-mail from me with an unrequested attached file it is
99.99% chance it is phony. If anyone finds any good removal methods, please
let me know. Regards, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In YippeeKayay Oregon, I easily titled my replica steam-powered homebuilt
carriage. But then, we're the state where auto registration runs only about
$30/2yrs or so (unless you've got an EV or hybrid: a whopping
$60/2yrs---sorry, no sympathy here...it's still cheap).
Since my steamcar looks to the rookie as a Locomobile and since Locomobiles
were the largest produced steamcars of 1899 in the states (mine actually
looks like a cross between an 1899 Locomobile and a 1903 Stanley steamer,
only lowered...), I simply checked off "replica" and indicated Locomobile as
being what it was intended to be a replica of---which is more or less true.
The builder (a retired Vancouver Wa. machinist) built the car in 1984 and
never titled or licensed "that damn thing" since he didn't think he could.
After I bought the carriage, I was asked by the DMV in Oregon what the VIN#
was...."uh, doesn't have one". "OK", says the DMV guy, rolling his eyes,
I'll have to give it one then. He walks away...he comes back w/tools in
hand. We walk out to the steam carriage on its trailer. He asks where I
want the VIN#---I say, "oh, how about here under the front axle?" He then
sticks the VIN# sticker on, whips out his handy dandy roller and rollers it
on firm. Back inside for paperwork finalization and money, and we're done
and I'm issued a Temporary Plate. No problem---a month later, a new Oregon
Crater Lake plate arrives: #00078 or something like that---too bad I
couldn't ask for 01899....oh well, can't have everything.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce-
I'm curious to find out how this charger approach works out.
My boat used one of the 2-battery versions when the boat was gas powered and
I just had a couple marine batteries. After conversion to electric, I
didn't think to consider charging the 36v of T-105s with something like
you're doing. They are compact, quiet, and, as you say, off the
shelf---though their charge rate is less than what I get w/lestermatic.
-Myles Twete
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The state patrol, huh? Do they inspect it for roadworthiness? (lights
brakes horn etc.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
Hi Dave;
I live in Washington as well.
I just titled a vintage sand rail and found the title was the easy part. You
just need to show receipts for the components to the state patrol and they
will issue a chassis serial number.
The problem I ran into was insurance. They need a manufacturer to fill in
their blank. Because the manufacturer was "HOMEMADE" instead of one of the
established manufacturers, Allstate would not insure the vehicle. IF I would
have used "VW", there would have been no problem.
I would advise you to list a manufacturer to get around this, even if the
only thing you use from that manufacturer is a transaxle or instrument
cluster or suspension or steering wheel or steering box, etc.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:39 PM
Subject: How to title a ground-up EV project
> Although I already have an EV (Jet Electrica) I am considering building
> something from the ground-up, i.e. fabricating one, likely from various
> kit-car and hotrod components, including the frame and suspension.
>
> Since this would essentially be a "new" kit car, I was wondering how I
would
> deal with the DMV on this. I'm sure it varies state-to-state, but does
> anyone know the general issues involved? How do states typically handle
> this kind of situation? (I am in WA state, Seattle area.) Will I need to
> start with a "donor" car, even if nothing except the serial plate and
title
> from it gets used? Or, can I "manufacture" my own car get a title issue
for
> it without going through federal crash tests, etc.?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow OR charges MORE for an EV or hybrid? Hmm maybe to make up for the loss
in fuel tax revenue?
I'm feeling encouraged by the feedback on this issue. Looks like our states
are tolerant of creativity. I have a homebuilt airplane, and it is pretty
straightforword to get them registered as well, and that's dealing with the
Feds.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:23 AM
Subject: RE: How to title a ground-up EV project
In YippeeKayay Oregon, I easily titled my replica steam-powered homebuilt
carriage. But then, we're the state where auto registration runs only about
$30/2yrs or so (unless you've got an EV or hybrid: a whopping
$60/2yrs---sorry, no sympathy here...it's still cheap).
Since my steamcar looks to the rookie as a Locomobile and since Locomobiles
were the largest produced steamcars of 1899 in the states (mine actually
looks like a cross between an 1899 Locomobile and a 1903 Stanley steamer,
only lowered...), I simply checked off "replica" and indicated Locomobile as
being what it was intended to be a replica of---which is more or less true.
The builder (a retired Vancouver Wa. machinist) built the car in 1984 and
never titled or licensed "that damn thing" since he didn't think he could.
After I bought the carriage, I was asked by the DMV in Oregon what the VIN#
was...."uh, doesn't have one". "OK", says the DMV guy, rolling his eyes,
I'll have to give it one then. He walks away...he comes back w/tools in
hand. We walk out to the steam carriage on its trailer. He asks where I
want the VIN#---I say, "oh, how about here under the front axle?" He then
sticks the VIN# sticker on, whips out his handy dandy roller and rollers it
on firm. Back inside for paperwork finalization and money, and we're done
and I'm issued a Temporary Plate. No problem---a month later, a new Oregon
Crater Lake plate arrives: #00078 or something like that---too bad I
couldn't ask for 01899....oh well, can't have everything.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim!
On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 08:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey Nathanial -
Welcome back! Were you the one who took your prom date to the dance in
your EV (and then allegedly ran out of juice on the way home...)? If
so, you were the one I was thinking of this past prom season as I
watched all the stretch SuvHumVeeUglyThings chauffeuring kid$ around
(and there was a fun thread about who got married because of/in spite
of EV chariots...)
Yeah, that was me!
I haven't touched any myself, but yes, Group 31 Optimas are supposed
to be out. Another nice change is that there are now a couple of
college "kids" here in the north east also working on EV conversions
so I don't feel like all the good stuff only happens "over there"...
interesting that all three of you are going for the fun factor this
time around. Good luck.
It's good to know I'm not the youngest member of the list anymore!
I'm trying to decide between Group 31s or Optima Group34/Orbitals. I
need to make up a spreadsheet or something to compare them all. I would
definitely save some money, and increase range by using 13 G31s instead
of 16 G34s, but I would lose some power.
Nathaniel Martin wrote:
After another year of school, summer is here again, and that means I
can get back to the ev list and working on Project Electric GTI.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Up until now I've been satisfied with AOL. I've found it to give a faster and more
reliable dialup than many of it's rivals. However, they've managed to piss me off
bigtime. With the introduction of version 8.0 it is now totally impossible to generate
emails in plain text format from within AOL. It was difficult enough under AOL 7
(early versions) and I've discovered the facility was removed from later releases.
Customer support don't seem to know about this issue.
If you also use AOL, DON'T UPGRADE!
Solutions if you wan't to keep AOL.
1. There should be a version of AOL 5.0 on your CD. Upgrade!? to verion 5 for email.
2. Use AOL on line email.
I'll be looking for a new ISP and web host.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Install Linux! It doesn't run viruses, unless you tell it to.
How about an EV Virus, Bear with me as I try to swing this back
arround to get OnT. Today at school we held a RC/EV race, and
with a number of heats and cars I was helping recharge batteries.
George, the man in charge, said that the chargers were behaving
badly and didn't seem to be finishing as quickly as normal.
Thought the voltage was low because of a heavy drop cord. Though
I didn't seem to notice any problems two weeks ago when we held
the same event, with less batteries mind you.
BTW, we have three chargers, one is "duel headed". They autodetect
the number of cells in the pack, from something like 4 to 12 or so
cells, our batteries are 1500 and 1900mah Ni-Cd. The chargers dump
them with about 3.5Amps and detect the peak and drop to a trickle.
Though they didn't seem to be reaching the trickle mode as usuail.
I think this is because they were running a lot of the packs dead
by using them for multiple heats. As opposed to last time when we
tried to top the packs of after each race, rotating through three
sets of four batteries.
Anyway, Then I went home and was using my phone to do some calculations.
It runs the Palm OS, running calc, and an amort schedule. After a short
while the battery went dead, as often happens. So I grabed my other
battery out of the charging stand/cradle and swaped it for the dead one.
Continuing to use the phone after a few minutes I noticed that this
battery was dead aswell, how odd. Had I somehow put the bad one back
into the phone? I carefully switched them again and sure enough they
were somehow both discharged. So I had no choice but to leave the phone
in the charging stand. But even in the stand the phone continued it's
crys for a recharge. The only remady was to turn off the phone. The
Palm is still useable with the cell phone portion off, not in standby,
off. My palm interface said that the battery SOC was about 40% with
a voltage of arround 3.4v which seemed right. 3.0v is 0%, and 4.0v or
so is 100% SOC. The Phone must be failing I thought. Wonderfull.
But Wait! There's more, on my way back into work this evening I plugged
the phone into the car, where I was sure there would be no possiblitiy
of saggie ac voltage problems. Sure enough, once on the car charger the
phone bat indicator went from 1 bar or "red and flashing" to full,
indicating that it was charging normally.
So, Could a brown out have caused two of the three RC chargers to work
poorly, as well as my as driven cradle charger for my phone? Anyone
in Redmond or Seattle experience anything unusuail like this?
Is this a reasonable assumption?
Low line voltage was causing my chargers to reference improperly?
How about.
The Power Company has got into the business of making rechargable
batteries look bad. I noticed there are no more "C" cell Ni-Mh's
on sale at Wal-Mart anymore!
umm, ya, didn't think so, but at least I tried.
L8r
Ryan
David Chapman wrote:
Hi all,
While catching up on my E-mail today my AVG virus scan caught a Worm/Virus
called SobigC. Apparently propigates thru e-mail and has been found using
spoofed address' from Microsoft support etc. It will have an attachment that
can have most anything as the .xxx extension. IE, pif, zip, doc etc. One of
the main files is winssk.exe. will be found in the windows directory on your
main hdd. Havn't figured out how to get rid of it so far. AVG finds it and
tries to isolate it but windows XP will not let AVG move the file. I don't
think I my comp has sent out anything dangerous as I have my firewall locked
down pretty tight and it denies winssk.exe access to the net, but if you
happen to get an e-mail from me with an unrequested attached file it is
99.99% chance it is phony. If anyone finds any good removal methods, please
let me know. Regards, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to clarify - this has nothing to do with the Ford Ranger EV. This
is about a Ford Ranger equipped with a remote starter switch, the idea
being to warm up your car before you get into it. All police see is a
car with smoke coming out of the exhaust and no driver, but the fine
print is, that's only against the law if the driver left the keys in the
car as well.
"Electric Car Starter" does not equal "Electric Car"
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:42 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EVLN(Ford Ranger EV ticketed for leaving motor running)
EVLN(Ford Ranger EV ticketed for leaving motor running)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2003/06/22/bsticket.htm
June 22, 2003 Traffic tickets are waiting for you
By Brendan Scott Times Herald-Record [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A $50 ticket for having one of those black plastic frames
around your license plate?
Nailed for leaving your car running while you dart into the
corner deli?
Hit with a court summons for having a beach towel-sized
American flag flying from your antenna?
Don't laugh. Those are all legit offenses under New York
state's Vehicle and Traffic Law. And the ongoing ticket
blitz controversy in the Big Apple shows the boys in blue
aren't afraid to use them.
As part of a citywide quality-of-life crackdown, police
officers have ticketed city motorists for everything from
dealer-supplied license plate frames to faded inspection
stickers to having dim headlights.
Union officials say a budget-worried City Hall has forced
cops to write 75,000 more tickets - an increase of 6.7
percent - between January and April of this year compared
with the same period last year. City police brass deny any
crackdown exists.
Still, it begs the question. Just what else can they nail us
for?
After all, more than 390,000 cars and trucks are registered
in Orange, Sullivan and Ulster counties, according to the
Department of Motor Vehicles. There are 221,000 cars in
Orange alone, and the last U.S. census said folks here drive
an average of 35 minutes to work each day.
The state Vehicle and Traffic Law provides plenty of fodder
for police to scribble in their ticket books. Most motorists
are aware of laws regarding cell phones and seat belts. But
how about windows that are tinted too dark? Or improperly
located registration stickers? Or leaving your car running
with the keys in it?
A couple of years ago, Walden resident Tom Fodor became
enraged when Village of Montgomery police tried to ticket
him for leaving his Ford Ranger running outside
Copperfield's Cafe. The catch: He was using an electric car
starter. The case was eventually dropped.
And the rules keep coming. On May 1, the DMV put motorists
on notice: Driving around with one of those outdated
"Liberty" license plates can garner a $50 to $200 fine.
"If it's in the Vehicle and Traffic Law, it can be
enforced," says Sgt. Ronnie Timoner, who supervises traffic
enforcement for the state police in Orange, Rockland,
Sullivan and Ulster counties. "You're responsible to know
what's legally allowed."
There is no New York City-style crackdown going on around
here, but, in 2002, state police Troop F wrote some 85,000
tickets, including 40,000 for miscellaneous traffic
offenses, such as broken taillights and funky custom
lighting, like those illuminants some people put on their
windshield washer nozzles.
But drivers do have some wiggle room. There's simply not
enough cops to chase every excessive tint job and
smoked-license plate frame off the highway. And Big Brother
does occasionally show his soft side.
Last year, the DMV reinterpreted it's "obstruction of view"
statute to allow things like E-ZPass tags, and fuzzy dice
and graduation tassels hanging from rearview mirrors.
It comes down to common sense, says Rochester attorney
Edward Cossgrove, who chairs the trial lawyers section of
the New York State Bar Association. A government must
educate citizens in new laws before holding them
accountable, he said.
"People should know that they're breaking the law,"
Cossgrove says. "They should know why they're charged before
they are charged."
They've got tickets to write
License plate frames: There's a bit of debate on this one.
Cops in New York City recently ticketed a guy for having one
of those black plate frames that came with his car. And,
according to V&T law, the NYPD is in the right. Most police
don't go that far, though. A simple rule of thumb: Anything
covering your plate - tinting, mud, snow, even one of those
clear plastic covers - is illegal. $25 to $200 fine.
That little red Statue of Liberty? She's out of style. Since
May 1, anyone who hasn't replaced his or her Liberty plates
with Empire plates is breaking the law. $50 to $200 fine.
Fuzzy dice in the mirror?: Not illegal. A recent review of
the law excludes things like E-ZPass, small flags and
graduation tassels from the "obstruction of view" statute.
Below the radar?: Radar detectors are also kosher. That is,
unless you drive a tractor-trailer, or other commercial
vehicle. $25 to $100 fine.
Car is on, but nobody's home?: It's illegal to leave your
car running, with the keys in it, if you're not behind the
wheel. Recently, some cops have taken this to include cars
started by an automatic starter, but the law says the keys
have to be inside.
CRX or UFO?: Funny lighting, such as those red and blue
illuminates that clip onto your windshield washer nozzles,
are illegal. Basically, the law says certain color lights
can only be on certain parts of the car.
Registration sticker: If it's not in the right place - lower
driver's side windshield - it's illegal. $25 to $200 fine.
In NYC, the cops have recently ticketed folks for having a
faded sticker. But local cops don't see how the new sticker
material could fade.
Riding in the dark: If the tinting is too dark, you could
get ticketed. The law says 70 percent of the outside light
must pass through the windows. The state police at Troop F
actually have a "tint-meter" to measure it. The catch: The
rule only applies to the windshield and front side windows.
Oh yeah, anyone installing illegal tint is also breaking the
law. $25 to $200 fine.
License plates, part deux: If the DMV gives you two plates,
you've got to use two of them. $25 to $200 fine.
Record Online is proudly brought to you by the Times
Herald-Record, serving New York's Hudson Valley and the
Catskills. 40 Mulberry Street * PO Box 2046 * Middletown,
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=====
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~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Jim Coate wrote:
> I had a battery dealer tell me he didn't like the Optima's. I have
> troubles believing the lowered-car/hydraulics/lighting-effects crowd
> follows the best charging regime for AGMs, and as a result may tend to
> murder a lot of batteries.
>
Well put, Jim. Yes, I have to agree, the return rate on Orbitals, especially
considering
the average mentality of the hopping car guys, is not surprising. They use many of
them in
series-parallel to run hydraulics, and most haven't a clue about proper battery
management, or for that matter, proper battery containment. Some have the batteries
loosely strewn about, with wires tugging at the terminals, etc.
I too, have had lamo battery resellers tell me that Optimas are crap, but after I query
them about why they think so, it becomes quite clear how uninformed these battery
salesmen
often are.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Install Linux! It doesn't run viruses, unless you tell it to.
Install MacOS X! No viruses for it at all. :-)
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030522S0017
"Fuel Cell R&D is far from easy street"
They basically say that automakers are being overly
optomistic about fuel cells and it will take
a Noble prize winning discovery to make it a reality
for automotive use.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got my battery cycler automagically discharging, logging data, and
shutting off at a set point. I've put an Excel file (Ugh! 1MB) of the
data along with a chart up in the files area of the Evercel list at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Evercel-EV/files/ and since there's been
trouble with the size and the data retrieval I've put a JPG (a more
manageable 46k) of the chart up on my own repository at
http://home.ix.netcom.com/~fw/Discharge1-1.jpg.
I'm a bit alarmed at the temp rise from 27C at the beginning to 46C at
the end. I've variously heard not to charge at over 40C from
[EMAIL PROTECTED] yesterday, and at 50C elsewhere. Shall have to watch how
long the batts take to cool down after discharge. This was in the
evening as the ambient temps were cooling down. The load was my
impressive and growing array of 12v bulbs, which ranged from 19.2 amps
to 16.4 amps, over the discharge cycle. Note that some numb nuts forgot
to reset the eMeter and thus you need to subtract the inital Ah reading
from the final: outta the box this battery gave 54.89 amp hours.
This should be interesting to see whether the capacity grows and the
heat goes down after the next few cycles. This was per the company's
reccomended cut off at 9.6 volts. They spec a 7.6 volt cut off at EV
style amps. The batt is bulk charging now with a less granular logging
of data every 30 seconds or so vs. this ridiculous 3 seconds. For the
moment I think I will stick with the company reccs of 386 minutes of
bulk charge at 11 amps and 1 hour of finish charge at 4amps and see both
how individual batteries improve after a few cycles and the variability
accross a number of batteries. Shall watch with interest what Rich gets
from the MB80 I "donated to science" which UPS should get to him next
week. Note: shipping batts via UPS is spendy! I have more work to do on
my cycler (need that automatic cutback to finish charge) and a
considerable code clean up but its nice to have some of the rudiments
working. Am also too chicken to go from automagic discharge to
automagic bulk charge unattended (plus this is straining the data
logging capacity of my diminutive java TINI). I think I can get this rig
to automatically calculate internal resistance by using just the load
and the load+finish charge current to generate a 15amp delta for
deltaV/deltaA. Seems this might be one of the figures to track over
time, along with AH.
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--- Begin Message ---
> Wow OR charges MORE for an EV or hybrid? Hmm maybe to make
> up for the loss in fuel tax revenue?
Yeah it's a revenue issue---Oregon claims charges double the biennial
registration for hybrids because they will use probably about half the
average fuel over their lifetimes and consequently would pay less road
tax----so they nail 'em in registration fees.
Still, since the root of the issue is funding for roads, and the cause for
increased registration fees here is reduced fuel use/mile (i.e. higher MPG),
you'd think they'd simply structure the fees based on MPG across the board.
But they don't---i.e. VW TDI Diesels (many of which are now running untaxed
veggie oil or biodiesel) get 50mpg, yet do not pay increased registration
fees despite having a fuel economy on par with a Prius. Homebuilt EVs,
which, registered as ordinary gas cars in most or all cases pay absolutely
zero fuel taxes and pay no extra registration fees here in Oregon. Best of
both worlds---at least we win there. So go figure.
Finally, again, I have little sympathy for the hybrid owners' case when they
get purchase tax credits and deductions from the State and Fed to the tune
of some $3500 total. The extra $15/yr registration fees are nothing,
especially compared to California. Sure, on principal, it's bad and should
be fought, but it's puny compared to the $150+ or so/yr equivalent tax break
granted the hybrids.
Interestingly, fuel taxing authorities (IRS, ODOT in Oregon) require that
fuel used for most (there are a few exceptions) road transport be taxed.
This includes taxation of "USE" fuels, which includes alcohol, NG, biodiesel
and even used veggie oil (SVO) even if it's free. Yet neither the IRS, nor
the State enforce collection on USE fuels. The responsibility is passed to
the "USER" to register as a user and pay fuel taxes. The USE tax in Oregon
at least can be paid annually by March 20 in one lump sum. Technically
then, isn't the fuel in an electric vehicle electrons, and wouldn't
electricity be considered a USE fuel for a road vehicle? Therefore,
logically our EVs could be dealt a USE fuel tax for their road use by fuel
taxing the electricity, right? At this point, taxing authorities seem blind
to this---I don't see the words in the statutes at least---all the better
for us.
-Myles Twete, Portland
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey, Wayland, you've met your match!
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/07/02/popsci.stereo.kill/index.html
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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--- Begin Message ---
fred whitridge wrote:
Shall watch with interest what Rich gets
> from the MB80 I "donated to science" which UPS should get to him next
> week.
Hey alright!!!
We will get as much data as we can and get it in excell format for the
masses.
Joe made some terse comments about me donating his time and battery
cycler, Yea right Joe you love it!!
I am going to fund the 8 station auto cycler project. That way we can
process Lion cells and murder Evercells in a larger volume.
Is there anybody out there with more than 400 cycles on any Evercells?
I hear a shipment of Mb40s will hit the shores in a couple of weeks.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
i think i'd rather listen to john's stereo... this guy has 130000 watts,
and it can only play one tone, and that one would kill you if it werent
properly contained? and my friends think _i'm_ weird!
anyway, assuming we get this portland order for YT's successfully
executed and shipped in time, i should have my spyder running with a new
battery pack and a set of rudman regs in time for the ev day here in
portland. will be nice to see how it feels with a fresh pack, and to
have a range of more than 5 miles ;)
--travis
Electro Automotive wrote:
Hey, Wayland, you've met your match!
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/07/02/popsci.stereo.kill/index.html
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Modular charging has lots of advantages, as Bruce has described, but just a
reminder to those following Bruce's progress about modular charging's major
DISadvantage.
If you run modular chargers, you may think that they'll eliminate battery
balancing concerns. On the contrary, balance monitoring becomes ^more^
essential. Lee Hart's elegantly simple Batt-bridge would probably work fine
for this purpose.
The reason: if a charger fails (as one of Bruce's did), only one battery in
the pack will be left uncharged. That may not immediately show up when you
next drive the vehicle. Before you realize anything's wrong, there's a good
chance you'll reverse and ruin that battery.
Unfortunately, there are no magic bullets when it comes to charging. It's a
procedure that makes a huge difference in operating cost and reliability of
an EV, and it's one that many hobbyists want to cheap out on. Don't.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
> How much electricity does a Half Wave Bad Boy Charger use to charge
> a 120 volt battery pack at 50 amps from a 240 volt AC outlet for
> one hour?
>
> How much electricity does a Full Bridge Bad Boy Charger use to
> charge a 120 volt battery pack at 50 amps from a 240 volt AC outlet
> for one hour?
>
> Both chargers use one 120 volt AC hot leg and the neutral.
>
> Do they both only use 120 volts x 50 amps or 6000 watts plus what
> ever is lost in the heating of the cord from the outlet to the
> meter on the charger?
The current in and current out of a 'bad boy' charger are identicaly --
both their magnitude and waveform. A halfwave 'bad boy' draws all its
current from just one half cycle; a fullwave draws it from both half
cycles.
The current is all concentrated in a narrow high-current pulse about in
the middle of the AC line cycle. When you say "50 amp", you need to
specify how it is measured; peak, average, RMS, etc. A circuit breaker
responds to RMS current; charging batteries respond to average current.
In a fullwave 'bad boy', 50 amps RMS is around 30 amps average, and over
100 amps peak.
> How does the electric company house meter record the usage?
> Does it record 50 amps for 120 volts or 50 amps for 240 volts?
The power meters people have on their homes measure true power in watts;
actual voltage times actual amps. Thus, it doesn't matter if you draw
power from only one leg of a 240vac service, or if the current waveform
or power factor are bad. You still only pay for the real power used.
Commercial and industrial power meters *do* keep track of power factor
and waveform distortion. The power company charges these customers a
premium price for bad power factor.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
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