EV Digest 2896
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: 2nd try - EMF shielding for radio reception - will this stuff work?
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Contactor/relay specing
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Timers, electrical 120V
by "tom peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Timers, electrical 120V
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) MD now an outpost on evchargernews.com
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) long trip
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Timers, electrical 120V
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Orbital Purple Haze Ready for Testing!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Timers, electrical 120V
by "tom peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV display at Sustainability Fair
by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) The Tilley Foundation and Carl Tilley
by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Windmill hood ornament
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Selling 1992 Saturn
by "jlentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) AGM as accessory batt?
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: The Tilley Foundation and Carl Tilley
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: AGM as accessory batt?
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: The Tilley Foundation and Carl Tilley
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Natural gas cars/electric cars being crushed.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AGM as accessory batt?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Bad Boy Charger Usage
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: concorde lifeline batteries
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Orbital Purple Haze Ready for Testing!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) EV1 Rental Locations?
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: AGM as accessory batt?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OT serializing transformers
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 2nd try - EMF shielding for radio reception - will this stuff work?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) MB80, Second discharge
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: EV1 Rental Locations?
by Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Seth,
I sympathize with your RFI problem. Other than just using FM/Tapes/or Disks, here is
what you do to minimize unwanted RF into the AM radio:
There are 3 ways RF gets into your radio:
from the power line. This is easy to test, just disconnect the power lines from the
radio and connect them to a spare 12V battery and see if that eliminates the noise.
If it does, get a power line filter from radioshack or some place and see if that
fixes the problem ( or keep charging that spare 12v battery and run off of it) Keep
the wires as short as possible.
>From the antenna: If power line doesn't fix the problem, put a High pass filter in
>line with the antenna where the antenna goes into the radio. Radio Shack has one
>available in the catalog, but not stocked in stores.
Through the speaker wires: Not the most likely spot, but can be solved with a inline
inductor.
If all else fails use FM
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: Seth Dallob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 2nd try - EMF shielding for radio reception - will this stuff
work?
If I slathered this stuff on my controller, would it improve my radio
reception to any noticeable effect?
http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html (about 1/3 the way down the page)
SUPER SHIELD
Reduce or Eliminate EMI / RFI Interference
A general purpose EMI/RFI shielding in a handy aerosol spray for use on
most substrates. Especially good for RF shielding plastic electronics
enclosures. Consists of a tough, durable acrylic base pigmented with a high
purity nickel flake. One to two mil coating provides 40dB - 50dB shielding
across a frequency range of 5 to 1800MHz. About 1600 in�/can coverage at 1.5
mil. Contains no CFC 'S, NO HCFC'S, ozone friendly. 340g (12 oz) aerosol
can. Dries to a dull gray color. Click to see MSDS
Volume Resistivity: 1 Ohm - mil
Dry time: 10 minutes at room temperature
Recoat time: 5 minutes
Excellent adhesion to most plastics
Tested as per IEEE Std. 299-1997
Underwriters Laboratories Recognized File No.: E202609
Flammable aerosol, ships by ground only.
Super Shield (Cat. #A285) ..................................... $24.95
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Contactor/relay specing
> David Chapman wrote:
> > Found a couple of nice Allen Bradley NO relay/contactors today...
> > The only thing the rating plate says is "24 Vdc"... removing the
> > domed bakelite cover the contacts are approx .625 diameter and
> > have a .050 seperation. They appear to be tin plated, cannot tell
> > for sure without further disassembly. Any thoughts? DC.
>
> 0.625" dia. is really big; good for over 500 amps. But 0.05" spacing is
> really small; like 24vdc max. Is it a true contactor (two contacts in
> series) or a relay (only one contact, and the movable part connected by
> some kind of flexible jumper)? A contactor would have two 0.05" spaced
> contacts in series, which doubles the off-state spacing and would permit
> higher voltages (like 48vdc).
>
> The contacts won't be tin; more likely silver oxide.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
Lee,
These are definately true contactors. Thanks, didn't know the defination of
a contactor before. Basically a solenoid with a bar (T formation) with a
contact at each end that pulls down on a contact at each side. Very nice HD
construction, T bar is sprung with a "kicker" similar to what I have seen in
Kilovac design notes. This might just be for better contact seating. I was
waiting to hear from you to pull one apart to see if I can increase the
contact spacing and there even might be enough room under the cover to place
a couple of magnets for blowouts. How do mbos work, NS poles straddling the
contacts vertical spacing, one pole straddling the vc or just stick a mag
next to the contact? I would be glad to send a jpg of these if you like, or
I will post a picture to my webpage as soon as I figure out my new ISPs
webhosting deal. Regards, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom,
I don't know about there, but here we have separate meters for off peak,
and they are used for such things as space heaters, which have timers in
them to turn them on at the right time.
Talk to your power supplier and see if you need a separate meter for this
off peak power as we do would be my first step if I was you and they should
also be able to help with timers etc.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok. The EV charger emergency list now includes my home in MD. I will
probably be upgrading the 110/Magnecharger interface to 220 30amp as well.
I'd say if you lived on the East coast and wanted to be a part of this,
pls sign up at www.evchargernews.com. Together we can accomplish a lot.
And if anyone needs a charge, feel free to drop by.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ended up meeting Jon with the EV Mitsubishi truck at Paul's house which
was 80 miles for me and 60 for him with the 20 extra orbital excides the 80
miles was easy and the voltage was still around 11.12v while driving 45/ 50
mphs . E- meter on the Mazda trucks 20 golf cart pack and was not reading ah
or amps form the pack in the bed ( I just plugged them into the charger plug
so they were on the wrong side of the meter) . I could have driven faster
but with a Curtis controller and the extra weight I didn't want to push it
, and traffic was not bad . We backed the trucks up bed to bed and
transfused the 20 orbital from the EV Mazda to the EV Mitsubishi . The
Mitsubishi uses a lot less amp's going down the road but didn't feel so safe
with the extra weight , so 50/55 mph was what I drove home on and made it
with juice left over again. Now to put some finishing touches on the
Mitsubishi and hope the person buys it .
SteveClunn
160 ev miles in one day
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<Hi all, does anyone know of a timer I can plug my Citicar into. The city I
live in states its off peak time is 10:00 PM to 11:00 AM. So I want to
charge during that time. I have to get up at 5:30, to avoid heat of the day,
so I retire by 9:00.>>
Any hardware or dept store should have the 120V timers that you plug into to
turn on and off you lights when you'r not home - has a face that turns and
tabs you push in or out every 1/2hr on the dial. We have a couple used for
vacations, rated to 15A "through-put", so if your C-car gets charged from
household 120Vac, these will do what you want.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All (calling MadMan),
John Wayland wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > Hey John,
> > Plasma boy!!
> > Can you supply ONE of these units for abuse testing. The results will be
> > published on the Manzanita Micro Website for all of us to view.
>
> Tell you what...I'm on it tomorrow. I'll stop by and suggest this to my Exide
> contact, and
> we'll see where it leads. They just might be into doing this, as they seem to be very
> interested in having real hard data on just how well these puppies perform.
>
> See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
Well, it's a couple days past, but the deed is done....Rich, I have a brand spank'n new
Orbital Purple Haze '34XCD' here for you and Mr. Smalley to test. Exide here in
Portland is
all for you guys putting it through the wringer and posting the results. Get in touch
with me
and let's get started.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I use those on other things. I have a fan turn on to evacuate the heat
out of my garage at night. Has anyone tried those to see if they can handle
the current to charge an EV? Lowe's has an Intermatic timer for hot water
heaters etc. But that's $47.97. And the city doesn't require us to use a
second meter. So I think for practicality I will just start the charge at
9:00 PM
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Timers, electrical 120V
> <<Hi all, does anyone know of a timer I can plug my Citicar into. The city
I
> live in states its off peak time is 10:00 PM to 11:00 AM. So I want to
> charge during that time. I have to get up at 5:30, to avoid heat of the
day,
> so I retire by 9:00.>>
>
> Any hardware or dept store should have the 120V timers that you plug into
to
> turn on and off you lights when you'r not home - has a face that turns and
> tabs you push in or out every 1/2hr on the dial. We have a couple used for
> vacations, rated to 15A "through-put", so if your C-car gets charged from
> household 120Vac, these will do what you want.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There will be an exciting EV display at this year's
Sustainability Fair in Livingston, Montana on July 12th. How
this came about is that I was out for a ride today on my ZAP bike,
going to the park to fly a giant stunt kite that has a nasty habit
of trying to pull your arms out of the sockets. I entered the park
and along comes a beautiful Prius with a huge sign on the top:
"See this electric car at the Sustainability Fair!" I thought,
"hey that's not an electric car!" and took off after it.
I pulled up alongside, there were a couple of ladies
in the car, riding with the windows down. I said: "Hey, I have
an electric car too, only mine doesn't use any gas and you can
just plug it in." She was thrilled to hear that, got all excited
and asked if I was bringing it to the fair. The reason for her
huge sign was that a giant downtown parade was about to begin.
The parade was really fun, the Prius was great to see
again and there were also a couple of guys on Currie scooters. One of
them was acting like he was kicking with his foot to go, but
since he was going 10 times faster than his foot he got plenty
of laughs.
After that I hopped into the EV and drove over to the
Farmer's Market. After meeting the lady who is organizing the
fair, I filled out a lengthy application. She waved all the fees
because of wanting me there so badly! At another booth I was
served free iced herbal tea, sat down in a chair, and then treated
to free accupunture and massage. Ahhh, this is the life, I thought.
I have a feeling that this fair will be very good, based
on the kinds of questions on the application. So many times at
Earth Day events, I've gotten the feeling that people are just
having a party and have forgotten what the event is all about in
the first place. It's time to get the little feller all cleaned up,
polished, and ready to show. I'll put up some big informational signs
that feature pictures of such exciting and well known cars as
John Wayland's Blue Meanie and White Zombie and also Bill Dube's
Ewectwic Wabbit. I will be displaying the ZAP bike too. The event
takes place in a beautiful shade tree filled grassy park, under
crystal clear and unpolluted skies.
Montana is going to be the next big happening EV place!
Brian Geary is going to be doing a conversion in Bozeman soon, and
I've contacted another fellow up Paradise Valley who has a Karmann Ghia
that he wants to convert.
...John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those of you who have an interest in Tilley,
Here is a recent message that Carl wrote to Bruce Meland.
From: "Tilley"
To: "bruce meland"
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Tilley Foundation.
Hi Bruce,
Still alive and kicking ......I know it is surprising after all that has
happened but I continue to fight....actually went out at a secret location
and built another car and shop device to prove once and for all that it is
real.....no more worries of who buys it....NOW just prove the state of
Tennessee is wrong and they can not stop this invention being given to the
world....it will get out.
Still no charges have been filed on me ....they just came in and took all
the inventions.....the good news is they forgot one small thing.....the
computer chip that is the key and main part of the devices.....they never
got that.....it was on the table in front of them....they simply did not
know what they were looking for.
It is all far away from Tennessee now and once completed the final test will
be done for all to see and you will be invited.
They did manage to lock down all my bank accounts in an attempt to stop the
project and they did take some of the stuff....But....they left the
inverter and control center as they were so inept they did not know what
they were looking for.
anyway.......we continue on.......remember as I once said...
......."Giving up is for those that think they can not win"
Carl Tilley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
.
>
> Maybe I am the "Hart" Steve referred to? :-)
Your the one ,
> Last fall, Steve and I proposed an EV Hood Ornament contest. The idea is
> to invent a gadget that serves as a hood ornament, and illustrates some
> idea (or fallacy) about EVs.
> Maybe a solar cell, or windmill running the
> wheels of a little car. Or 'generator on the wheel' model. Or just silly
> blinkinlights. Whatever you like.
> I informally offered a $100 prize for the best example submitted to me
> within a year of the contest start. OK; Steve has the first (and only)
> entry so far. Are you folks going to let him win without a fight? :-)
You summed it up well. Now where are those TV reporters.
I wasn't thinking that I qualified , but as you have put up the money , you
can make the rules :-) Is it to late for any other high rollers to add to
the prize. Could I be a judge of $100 also?
> Entries must be photos or other documentation of a real working model,
> not just an idea or paper sketch. The contest closes September 1, 2002,
> and I will judge the winner.
entree's can be seen at www.grassrootsev.com in the event's section , (if
Jon H has this working) .
If nobody enters will do it again in 2001 :-)
Steve Clunn
160ev miles in one day
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, this time I'm really going to do it. I'm leaving the St. Louis area
and as I don't have another house to move into yet, I don't want to move the
car with me. The EV photo album has the pictures and specs on the car. The
main points are:
9" ADC
DCP T-600 controller
DCP DC/DC converter
20 Optimas in series for 240V (The Optimas are very worn and need replacing
soon.)
NG5 Charger
19 PowerCheq modules
The car is driveable, though the range is poor.
I'm asking $5500 or best offer. I plan on posting it to the EV Trader site
and EBay, when I can get some time off from packing up the house. Any other
sites to recommend? For more specific questions, please email me off-list.
Thanks.
John Lentz
St. Louis, MO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi all,
I know in a series string application AGMs will eventually fail if
charged to too high a voltage. however, if a 'normal' car alternator's
voltage regulator is designed to charge at 14.4 volts, in theory, could
you use an AGM as your accessory battery without killing it quickly?
Also, is is OK to charge an AGM or gel battery from a normal "12
volt/10 amp" style battery charger?
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, I always knew that computer chips were the key to over-unity.
On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 14:18, John Bryan wrote:
>
> For those of you who have an interest in Tilley,
> Here is a recent message that Carl wrote to Bruce Meland.
>
>
> From: "Tilley"
> To: "bruce meland"
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Tilley Foundation.
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Still alive and kicking ......I know it is surprising after all that has
> happened but I continue to fight....actually went out at a secret location
> and built another car and shop device to prove once and for all that it is
> real.....no more worries of who buys it....NOW just prove the state of
> Tennessee is wrong and they can not stop this invention being given to the
> world....it will get out.
>
> Still no charges have been filed on me ....they just came in and took all
> the inventions.....the good news is they forgot one small thing.....the
> computer chip that is the key and main part of the devices.....they never
> got that.....it was on the table in front of them....they simply did not
> know what they were looking for.
>
> It is all far away from Tennessee now and once completed the final test will
> be done for all to see and you will be invited.
>
> They did manage to lock down all my bank accounts in an attempt to stop the
> project and they did take some of the stuff....But....they left the
> inverter and control center as they were so inept they did not know what
> they were looking for.
>
> anyway.......we continue on.......remember as I once said...
>
> ......."Giving up is for those that think they can not win"
>
>
>
> Carl Tilley
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most "normal" 12V battery chargers charge to about 14.8V. Most GEL
cells don't like voltages that high, Should be ok for most AGMs though.
Car alternators are all over the map on their volt set point, frequently
over 15V.
On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 21:07, Seth Murray wrote:
> hi all,
>
> I know in a series string application AGMs will eventually fail if
> charged to too high a voltage. however, if a 'normal' car alternator's
> voltage regulator is designed to charge at 14.4 volts, in theory, could
> you use an AGM as your accessory battery without killing it quickly?
> Also, is is OK to charge an AGM or gel battery from a normal "12
> volt/10 amp" style battery charger?
>
> Seth
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course, actually most modern cpu's are over-unity by about 1,000
times, that's why they get so hot and need big heat sinks and fans.
Yup, I always knew that computer chips were the key to over-unity.
computer chip that is the key and main part of the devices.....they never
Carl Tilley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just bought a Ram 250 CNG Van. Drove it from LA to San Francisco. No
problems except forgetting my pin number and having to sleep in the van in
Fresno over night till someone could find my pin. I found out from the
person that I bought the van from that he gets these vehicles from the U. S.
Govt. He said if he didn't buy them they would be crushed. Many only have
a few thousand miles on them. My van is a 94 with 38 thousand miles on it.
I paid 5300 for it. A 96 was there for 7900 dollars and only 14k on it. He
said he couldn't even get the Camarys. They are all crushed. He also said
that it is getting harder to get more CNG vehicles because administrators
are now extending the useful life of the vehicles. Your tax dollars at use.
I will ask about electric vehicles. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:07 PM
Subject: AGM as accessory batt?
> hi all,
>
> I know in a series string application AGMs will eventually fail if
> charged to too high a voltage.
They dry out when overcharged. They don't need to be in any string to be
overcharged.
> however, if a 'normal' car alternator's
> voltage regulator is designed to charge at 14.4 volts, in theory, could
> you use an AGM as your accessory battery without killing it quickly?
Is your calibrated that close. Mine are all over. The lowest one is about
13.3 and the hottest one will go over 16 volts just after the engine is
started.
> Also, is is OK to charge an AGM or gel battery from a normal "12
> volt/10 amp" style battery charger?
What is normal?
As long as the charger has good voltage regulation, the AGM will be just
fine. Does a normal charger have good regulation? I know cheap ones don't.
>
> Seth
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charger is pushing 6000 watts into battery in the first case. The meter is
reading 6000 watts because only one diode is conducting at a time. The
current is 25 amps per leg times two legs times 120 volts is 6000 watts.
A half wave device is only pushing 3000 watts because only one diode is
conducting from one leg. The current is 25 amps per leg times one leg times
120 volts is 3000 watts. This will open a 20 amp breaker very quickly.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bad Boy Charger Usage
> Charging amperage was measured with a simple analog meter on the charger.
>
> I guess I missed the Super Bad Boy charger where there is a diode on each
> hot leg, the two hot legs are tied together on the DC side of the diodes
> and the neutral is used as the negative to the battery pack.
> Charger registers 50 amps to the 120 volt battery pack.
> Is the house meter reading 50 amps at 240 volts because both legs of the
> 240 volt outlet are being used to charge 120 volt battery or something
> else ?
>
> Regular Bad Boy has a diode on only one hot leg, either the hot leg of a
> regular 120 volt outlet or on one hot leg of a 240 volt outlet, and the
> neutral is used as the negative to the 120 volt battery pack.
> Is the house meter reading 50 amps x 120 volts, 50 amps x 240 volts, or
> something else ?
>
> Thanks.
> Menlo Park III,
> Bill
>
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:32:49 -0700 Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
> > > How much electricity does a Half Wave Bad Boy Charger use to
> > charge
> > > a 120 volt battery pack at 50 amps from a 240 volt AC outlet for
> > > one hour?
> > >
> > > How much electricity does a Full Bridge Bad Boy Charger use to
> > > charge a 120 volt battery pack at 50 amps from a 240 volt AC
> > outlet
> > > for one hour?
> > >
> > > Both chargers use one 120 volt AC hot leg and the neutral.
> > >
> > > Do they both only use 120 volts x 50 amps or 6000 watts plus what
> > > ever is lost in the heating of the cord from the outlet to the
> > > meter on the charger?
> >
> > The current in and current out of a 'bad boy' charger are identicaly
> > --
> > both their magnitude and waveform. A halfwave 'bad boy' draws all
> > its
> > current from just one half cycle; a fullwave draws it from both half
> > cycles.
> >
> > The current is all concentrated in a narrow high-current pulse about
> > in
> > the middle of the AC line cycle. When you say "50 amp", you need to
> > specify how it is measured; peak, average, RMS, etc. A circuit
> > breaker
> > responds to RMS current; charging batteries respond to average
> > current.
> > In a fullwave 'bad boy', 50 amps RMS is around 30 amps average, and
> > over
> > 100 amps peak.
> >
> > > How does the electric company house meter record the usage?
> > > Does it record 50 amps for 120 volts or 50 amps for 240 volts?
> >
> > The power meters people have on their homes measure true power in
> > watts;
> > actual voltage times actual amps. Thus, it doesn't matter if you
> > draw
> > power from only one leg of a 240vac service, or if the current
> > waveform
> > or power factor are bad. You still only pay for the real power used.
> >
> > Commercial and industrial power meters *do* keep track of power
> > factor
> > and waveform distortion. The power company charges these customers a
> > premium price for bad power factor.
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> > Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> > Cohen
> >
> >
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Through a trade, I got the original set of GPC-12105 that preceded this pack
when the replacement occurred in 1998. The date stamp says they were built
in 1996.
I found three of the batteries were hopeless and I promptly recycled them.
One died when it was dropped on its terminals breaking the case.
Three are still being used as house batteries in my motorhome when I sold it
last year.
Two died last year when someone used them with a bad boy charger.
The three I still have are doing part time duty in a UPS at roughly 40% of
their original capacity.
In 2001, five of them still made 80% of nameplate rating. The internal
resistance was up and the Peukert coefficient was getting pretty bad, but
they still performed adequately as a lighting battery for a motorhome.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: concorde lifeline batteries
> Seth Murray wrote:
> > What do we think of the concorde lifeline batteries? they are AGM
> > VRLAs with rectangular plates (as opposed to spiralwound) although they
> > claim that they plates are packed very tightly. They also claim low
> > internal resistance and high power output.
>
> I have twelve Concorde GPC-1295 AGMs (12v 95ah at 20hr rate) in my
> LecHart EV. They were bought Jan 1998, so they are now over 5 years old.
> This battery is currently their AGM-1290.
>
> Overall, they've been good batteries. I'd consider them as midway
> between floodeds and Hawker or Optima AGMs. Internal resistance, voltage
> sag, amphour capacity, price, and life are all about halfway between.
>
> A number of people have used them and had bad results. But, it seems
> this was due to using them without a battery management system (as if
> they were floodeds), or trying to draw high peak currents (as if they
> were Optimas or Hawkers). In my case, I have the current limit on my
> controller turned all the way down (so peak current is about 400 amps),
> and have my Battery Balancer system which tightly limits SOC.
>
> I bought 12 batteries, but one was used as the accessory battery, #12.
> Not surprisingly, #12 is the best in the pack. I recently swapped it
> with the weakest, #5.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
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--- Begin Message ---
They will check the presence of all this stuff if you intend to license it
for the street. They never checked to see if mine actually worked.
They would not pass my Fiesta (from Oregon) because it did not have bumpers,
wipers and speedometer. I had to INSTALL THEM to get the car to pass the
inspection. They had no problem with setting the fuel to "E" for electric.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
> The state patrol, huh? Do they inspect it for roadworthiness? (lights
> brakes horn etc.)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What a week.
I almost get done ding my quarterly run through my stash of AGMs and expect
to do an upgrade to the old system and I get two more victims. I guess there
is no rest for the cycler this month.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:23 AM
Subject: Orbital Purple Haze Ready for Testing!
> Hello to All (calling MadMan),
>
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> > > Hey John,
> > > Plasma boy!!
> > > Can you supply ONE of these units for abuse testing. The results will
be
> > > published on the Manzanita Micro Website for all of us to view.
> >
> > Tell you what...I'm on it tomorrow. I'll stop by and suggest this to my
Exide contact, and
> > we'll see where it leads. They just might be into doing this, as they
seem to be very
> > interested in having real hard data on just how well these puppies
perform.
> >
> > See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
> Well, it's a couple days past, but the deed is done....Rich, I have a
brand spank'n new
> Orbital Purple Haze '34XCD' here for you and Mr. Smalley to test. Exide
here in Portland is
> all for you guys putting it through the wringer and posting the results.
Get in touch with me
> and let's get started.
>
> See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going on vacation for a week,
and thought that perhaps I might head
down to California and rent an EV1
for an afternoon on my way.
Does anyone know who rents EV1's in SF or LA?
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 12volt/10 amp ones can be really bad. I see them go to over 17V.
Hawker AGM have charging recommendations on the case, IIRC. Deka Gel
cells do. And aren't Hawkers and Optimas designed to be installed in ICE vehicles?
What I see for modern ICE alternator output is ususally a voltage above
14.0, like 14.2-14.4 for a time, then tapering a bit to 14.0 to 13.6
after a few tens of minutes. I suspect this is intentional, but I don't
know how exactly it is done. I suspect Optimas and Hawkers are
engineered to survive this usage profile, and underhood temperatures.
Seth Allen
Seth Murray wrote:
>
> hi all,
>
> I know in a series string application AGMs will eventually fail if
> charged to too high a voltage. however, if a 'normal' car alternator's
> voltage regulator is designed to charge at 14.4 volts, in theory, could
> you use an AGM as your accessory battery without killing it quickly?
> Also, is is OK to charge an AGM or gel battery from a normal "12
> volt/10 amp" style battery charger?
>
> Seth
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The secondaries on neon transformers are center tapped to the case for
safety-secondary UL breakdown requirements so putting the two secondaries in
series would have an electrically hot case on one of the transformers. If
both cases are connected correctly to the green ground wire you will blow a
fuse (hopefully). Build a Tesla Coil for higher (1MV) voltage or buy a 15kv
transformer if that's all you need.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: OT serializing transformers
> James Jarrett wrote:
> > Recently I purchased to transformers with the intent of building a
> > couple of jacob's ladders for halloween.
> > One is a 120v Primary 3000v secondary. (25x boost)
> > The other is 120v Primary 9000v secondary. (75x boost)
> > if I connect 120 to the primary of the small one, and then connect
> > the secondary of the small one to the primary of the large one,
> > would this work? What kind of results would I get?
>
> No, it won't work. The core of the transformer will saturate if you put
> more than about 20% of rated voltage on any transformer winding. Thus,
> you are limited to about 120vac x 1.2 = 144vac max.
>
> When the core saturates, it in effect "disappears". Without the core,
> you have nothing but a long piece of coiled up copper wire, with low
> resistance and inductance. Thus, the winding current goes up
> drastically. If the power source is not fused or otherwise limited, the
> winding will quickly burn up.
>
> The right way to do what you want is to connect both transformer
> primaries in parallel, to 120vac. Then connect the secondaries in
> series, so their voltages add; 3,000vac + 9,000vac = 12,000vac. That
> should be enough for a quite satisfactory Jacob's ladder.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The best way to reduce EMI is to make the wires from the controller to the
motor as short as possible and ty-rap all to-from large cables together to
cancel opposing fields under the right side of the vehicle and all control
wiring under the left side. Vodo dust won't work. I can listen to AM radio
without interference (if I really wan't to but usually NPR or jazz).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathaniel Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: 2nd try - EMF shielding for radio reception - will this stuff
work?
> I think this would only help if you sprayed every cable and your motor
> as well. As far as I know, EMF is going to come from every cable or
> device that is switching, or carrying switching current.
>
> -Nathaniel
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 01:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > If I slathered this stuff on my controller, would it improve my radio
> > reception to any noticeable effect?
> >
> > http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html (about 1/3 the way down the page)
> >
> >
> > SUPER SHIELD
> > Reduce or Eliminate EMI / RFI Interference
> > A general purpose EMI/RFI shielding in a handy aerosol spray for use
> > on
> > most substrates. Especially good for RF shielding plastic electronics
> > enclosures. Consists of a tough, durable acrylic base pigmented with a
> > high
> > purity nickel flake. One to two mil coating provides 40dB - 50dB
> > shielding
> > across a frequency range of 5 to 1800MHz. About 1600 in�/can coverage
> > at 1.5
> > mil. Contains no CFC 'S, NO HCFC'S, ozone friendly. 340g (12 oz)
> > aerosol
> > can. Dries to a dull gray color. Click to see MSDS
> > Volume Resistivity: 1 Ohm - mil
> > Dry time: 10 minutes at room temperature
> > Recoat time: 5 minutes
> > Excellent adhesion to most plastics
> > Tested as per IEEE Std. 299-1997
> > Underwriters Laboratories Recognized File No.: E202609
> > Flammable aerosol, ships by ground only.
> > Super Shield (Cat. #A285) ..................................... $24.95
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hopefully a graph of my second discharge can be seen at:
http://home.ix.netcom.com/~fw/Discharge1-2.jpg or in the Evercel yahoo
group files section. My sophisticated naming system is the battery
number before the hyphen and the cycle number after. Thanks to those
who have given me Excel tips and examples.
This is a good news, bad news story.
GOOD NEWS: Pulled out 71.3 Amp Hours with discharge and charge for the
first cycle absolutely per the company's reccomendation. Not bad for a
64Ah nameplate. But not as good as the poor soldier who's gone out to
visit Uncle Joe/Uncle Rich for a little PFC high rate spa treatment.
When I extended the 4amp finish charge on that MB80 until the voltage
dropped (per Rich's suggestion) I got 79Amp hours on the next
discharge. The company didn't much like the sound of that and said this
would result in drying the battery out. This seems to fly in the face
of the Rudman/Smalley 400+ cycles with a batt that had already lost some
electrolyte when it came to them for their patented spa special.
BAD NEWS: The temp rise was from 35 degrees C to 51-- higher than the
first cycle. I hadn't programmed in an overtemp shutdown of my cycler
but suppose I shall now. This has led me to RTFM where there are some
great nuggets of Chinese/English:
"The Ni-ZN battery will function in a broad range of temperatures (-10C
to 50C, 14F to 122F), and the ideal operating temperature is 25C +/-
3C. A high ambient temperature should be corrected through the use of
appropriate ventilation. If the ambient temperature elevates more than
50C, stop using the battery."
and
"After discharging, esp. at hi-rate current, the battery will become
warm. Therefore it's recommended to let it cool down to room
temperature (normally for 1 to 2 hours) before charging the battery.
When the battery is close to full charge, the battery may become warm,
which is normal. Do not charge the battery when the ambient temperature
is above 40C (104F)"
Indeed the temp compensation tables only run up to 40C.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
Budget (EVRentals http://www.evrental.com/ ) at LAX does. I did the
same thing last week. I just had to drive an EV1 before its gone.
What a great experience. It was $38.96 for 24 hours, and I didn't have
to "fill up the tank" when I returned it. :)
Also, it would be a good idea to be familiar with the contents of these
charging infrastructure links and plan accordingly, especially if
you're not familiar with LA.
http://www.evchargernews.com/
http://ev1-club.power.net/chglist.htm
However, trying to get a reservation through the web-site points of
contact was difficult as most agents don't know what an EV1 is. I
finally got a phone # for the EV division of Budget (Gail,
310-678-1723) She was very helpful.
Sam
--- Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm going on vacation for a week,
> and thought that perhaps I might head
> down to California and rent an EV1
> for an afternoon on my way.
>
> Does anyone know who rents EV1's in SF or LA?
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
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--- End Message ---
