EV Digest 2898
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The Tilley Foundation and Carl Tilley
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Timers, electrical 120V
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: MB80, Second discharge
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Lifting batteries
by Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Modular charging (was: Proper Charging!)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Lifting batteries
by "Eric Penne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Lifting batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Lifting batteries
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV1 Rental Locations?
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Lifting batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV1 Rental Locations?
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Lifting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: CalCars Plan - nonprofit?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Electric boat, more EV projects
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: How to title a ground-up EV project
by "Bryan Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lifting batteries
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) alternators
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Lifting batteries
by "tom peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: AOL 8.0
by "Mike Brandon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV1 Rental Locations?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV1 Rental Locations?
by "Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Switched capacitor battery equalizer
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: OT: Trimming REs
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: CalCars Plan - nonprofit?
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: CalCars Plan - nonprofit?
by "Coallier, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Switched capacitor battery equalizer
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) MB80, Finish Charge#2
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Timers, electrical 120V
by "tom peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: AOL 8.0 (OT)
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
LOLOLOLOLO. May the force be with him. BIG
SNICKER.................Lawrence Rhodes......
----------------------------------------------------
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:18 PM
Subject: The Tilley Foundation and Carl Tilley
>
> For those of you who have an interest in Tilley,
> Here is a recent message that Carl wrote to Bruce Meland.
>
>
> From: "Tilley"
> To: "bruce meland"
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Tilley Foundation.
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Still alive and kicking ......I know it is surprising after all that has
> happened but I continue to fight....actually went out at a secret location
> and built another car and shop device to prove once and for all that it is
> real.....no more worries of who buys it....NOW just prove the state of
> Tennessee is wrong and they can not stop this invention being given to the
> world....it will get out.
>
> Still no charges have been filed on me ....they just came in and took all
> the inventions.....the good news is they forgot one small thing.....the
> computer chip that is the key and main part of the devices.....they never
> got that.....it was on the table in front of them....they simply did not
> know what they were looking for.
>
> It is all far away from Tennessee now and once completed the final test
will
> be done for all to see and you will be invited.
>
> They did manage to lock down all my bank accounts in an attempt to stop
the
> project and they did take some of the stuff....But....they left the
> inverter and control center as they were so inept they did not know what
> they were looking for.
>
> anyway.......we continue on.......remember as I once said...
>
> ......."Giving up is for those that think they can not win"
>
>
>
> Carl Tilley
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Jul 2003 at 19:57, tom peterson wrote:
> Lowe's has an Intermatic timer for hot water
> heaters etc. But that's $47.97.
And how much will you save in power costs?
There's a good reason that the Intermatic costs ten times what the Chinese
sweatshop timers cost: It's designed to work reliably without attention for
many years, not to sell as cheaply as possible. As in most things, you get
what you pay for. If you want a timer that won't surprise you some morning,
you'll have to dig down a little deeper.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Jul 2003 at 9:21, fred whitridge wrote:
> ... the ideal operating temperature is 25C +/-
> 3C. A high ambient temperature should be corrected through the use of
> appropriate ventilation. If the ambient temperature elevates more than
> 50C, stop using the battery."
>
> and
>
> "After discharging, esp. at hi-rate current, the battery will become
> warm. Therefore it's recommended to let it cool down to room
> temperature (normally for 1 to 2 hours) before charging the battery.
> ... Do not charge the battery when the ambient temperature is
> above 40C (104F)"
This sounds almost ^exactly^ like Saft's recommendations for STM nicads.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quick question. Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in and out
of the car or do you just rely on brute force? My batteries are 90 pounds
each and I only weigh 130, so I can't even lift them. Are there any tools
out there?
Thanks,
Aubrey
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah. It's these people's problem, not charger's.
I have no problems with that.
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > What is a problem to shut off mains if *any* of modular chargers fail?
> > Yes, you will be left uncharged, but it's no different than if your
> > only bulk charger fails should that happen.
>
> It certainly can be done. It's just that many people assume their nice
> new modular chargers won't fail, so they don't include any kind of
> system to detect a failure.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had exactly the same experience when lived in Texas
Here is my old web page with little story:
http://www.metricmind.com/dc_honda/main.htm
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Crabb, David wrote:
> > will he be able to write anything off of your taxes, since it is
> > a 'new' vehicle?
>
> There is a $2000 federal income tax credit if he manages to complete it
> before the end of 2003. Next year it drops to $1500, and I believe keeps
> dropping $500 per year until it's gone. We can thank our far-sighted
> President and his party for dis-encouraging EVs.
>
> All that matters is that it is titled as a new vehicle. It could
> literally be new, or just newly assembled from old components and
> re-titled. For example, I got the $2000 tax credit on my 1980 ComutaVan,
> because I bought it with a "salvage" title and re-titled it in 1993 as a
> "1993 Assembled Electric Car" (that's what the state of Michigan called
> it).
>
> The inspection process was rigorous, but no crash tests or other drastic
> measures were needed. Each state has its own list of mandatory features.
> In Michigan, one of the screwy ones was that they require an exhaust
> system. I actually had to bolt a piece of exhaust pipe to my electric
> car (which went nowhere and did nothing) to pass the inspection.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depending on the location of the batteries you might be able to use and
engine hoist. They have a long arm that reaches out over the engine bay.
It has a hydraulic jack to lift the arm and all you have to do is pump the
jack and move the hoist on it's wheels.
> Quick question. Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in and
> out of the car or do you just rely on brute force? My batteries are 90
> pounds each and I only weigh 130, so I can't even lift them. Are there
> any tools out there?
>
> Thanks,
> Aubrey
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sound like flooded (ballast) batteries. Get a good battery strap to assist
with lifting. Better yet, get your next door neighbor's teenager to assist -
young, strong body. Might even need two people, for that weight.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey Wilder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:43 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Lifting batteries
Quick question. Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in and out
of the car or do you just rely on brute force? My batteries are 90 pounds
each and I only weigh 130, so I can't even lift them. Are there any tools
out there?
Thanks,
Aubrey
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Jul 2003 at 12:43, Aubrey Wilder wrote:
> Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in and out of
> the car or do you just rely on brute force?
Been there! There's nothing quite like trying to wrestle heavy lead out of
the (former) back seat of a tiny converted 2-door car. That's one reason I
prefer 28lb (13kg) nicads. It's also an advantage of the drive systems that
use higher voltage and smaller modules. An Optima or Hawker weighs a lot
less than a 5SHP (86lb / 39kg).
For batteries under the hood, or a rear hatch or boot lid, you may be able
to remove the panel and use an engine hoist or something similar. I once
pulled the 1.0 litre engine out of a 1965 Opel Kadett with a comealong
hooked to an eyebolt in the garage rafters, and I'm sure that engine weighed
more than one of your batteries.
Be sure to lift only with the lift points molded into the battery cases;
lifting by the terminals will almost certainly break the seal and lead to
acid weep from them.
For those batteries with non-removeable body panels over them, I'm afraid
the best suggestion I have is find someone burly to help you.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An afternoon? You'll break your heart. Take it for a full week!
My wife and I did that a year ago and had an absolute blast.
Drove it to San Diego the first day, despite 6 hour traffic jam
due to tanker truck spill. Finding the charging stations is no
problem if you have web access in your hotel. Also, they give
you a book with all the LA and Orange County locations marked,
with maps for each. Take some CD's. Here we were stuck in 10
mile gridlock with no Beach Boys. Major bummer.
Get'em at LAX, but be sure to book in advance.
Mike Hoskinson
Edmonton
Ryan Fulcher wrote:
I'm going on vacation for a week,
and thought that perhaps I might head
down to California and rent an EV1
for an afternoon on my way.
Does anyone know who rents EV1's in SF or LA?
L8r
Ryan
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gain some weight.
Victor :-)
Aubrey Wilder wrote:
>
> Quick question. Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in and out
> of the car or do you just rely on brute force? My batteries are 90 pounds
> each and I only weigh 130, so I can't even lift them. Are there any tools
> out there?
>
> Thanks,
> Aubrey
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yup, thanx for all the help, www.evrental.com was good, and we have a
reservation for tomorrow at LAX(LX3?), through Budget. Never been to
LA before, so I thought we'de just drive arround for a while, maybe go
to the beach. I have a map of the chargers and have printed it out from
ev1-club.power.net/chglist.htm
I'm gonna bring a video camera and try to get a lot of footage of the
car, for when they decide to deny it's existance entirely.
Anyone know of any good EV1 tricks?
Like disableing the governor? <G>rin
L8r
Ryan
Michael Hoskinson wrote:
An afternoon? You'll break your heart. Take it for a full week! My
wife and I did that a year ago and had an absolute blast. Drove it to
San Diego the first day, despite 6 hour traffic jam due to tanker truck
spill. Finding the charging stations is no problem if you have web
access in your hotel. Also, they give you a book with all the LA and
Orange County locations marked, with maps for each. Take some CD's.
Here we were stuck in 10 mile gridlock with no Beach Boys. Major bummer.
Get'em at LAX, but be sure to book in advance.
Mike Hoskinson
Edmonton
Ryan Fulcher wrote:
I'm going on vacation for a week,
and thought that perhaps I might head
down to California and rent an EV1
for an afternoon on my way.
Does anyone know who rents EV1's in SF or LA?
L8r
Ryan
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aubrey Wilder wrote:
> Quick question. Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in
> and out of the car or do you just rely on brute force? My batteries
> are 90 pounds each and I only weigh 130, so I can't even lift them.
> Are there any tools out there?
When I was wiggling 60+lbs golf cart batteries in my EV, I made a little
"crane" out of 2x4s. It was pretty simple; just one vertical and one
horizontal 2x4, arranged like a big letter "T". Hang the battery from
one end of the top of the "T" with a sling made of flat straps or rope.
Pull down on the other end, and up goes the battery. Swing it around
into position, and lower it in. Leave the strap or rope under the
battery, so you can pull it out again later.
Don't carry or hang them by the terminals. It will crack the seals, and
you'll have leaks!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brad Waddell wrote:
>
> I was looking at the paper today and saw ads for "donate your car to
> charity for a tax deduction".
>
> If a group of electric car conversion people was setup, could they not be
> organized as a non-profit, offer a tax deduction for the donated cars, sell
> of the ones not appropriate to conversion, convert the rest, and consider
> it a vehicle recycling company?
>
> just a thought.
And it's a good thought.
I have worked with Habitat for Humanity for years. This is an
organization that helps poor people build their own homes. It has become
literally the largest home builder in the world!
Basically, people sign up on a list. They help build a house for whoever
is on top of the list. In the process, they learn basic building skills.
When that house is done, the new owner gets it, free and clear! Now they
start on the next person's home. If you put in enough work, you get a
free house! The building materials are usually donated or purchased with
contributions from interested individuals or companies.
It struck me that this model might work for building EVs. Join a club,
convert a donated car into an EV, and the top person on the list gets
it! And, they know how it's built and how to care for it!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myles Twete wrote:
...
> I'm not into doing motor surgery, magnet relocation or stator/armature
> rewiring for a solution...I'd rather just use my current setup which reaches
> 5knots and leave it at that.
If someone thinking about electric boat capable of better than
5 knots, here is a setup option to consider:
http://www.feys.org/ click on "Our system" on the left.
4 motors for drive props, 4 others (driven from Diesel engine,
inverters in regen mode) producing energy for the first 4.
Incidentally, Elfa drive system used (made by Siemens for electric
bus applications), feys just don't mention that.
Must be a fun boat to ride...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> All that matters is that it is titled as a new vehicle. It could
> literally be new, or just newly assembled from old components and
> re-titled. For example, I got the $2000 tax credit on my 1980
ComutaVan,
> because I bought it with a "salvage" title and re-titled it in 1993 as
a
> "1993 Assembled Electric Car" (that's what the state of Michigan
called
> it).
>
Does the car have to have a salvage title to do this? Could a fully
functioning non-salvaged car be re-titled in this way to make it a "new"
car eligible for the tax credit?
-Bryan Avery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I doubt you can disassemble your perfectly good car, and put it
back together as legally "new". People would do this every year;
besides, they'd declare just taking off steering wheel "disassembly"
trying to qualify for deduction (or do absolute minimum disassembly
just to qualify).
On the other hand, if salvage yard makes this possible, can you
formally get the papers through the yard's salvaging procedure -
give them a car for 1 day to process and get it back untouched,
or even better - physically keeping the car at all times?
Victor
Bryan Avery wrote:
>
> >
> > All that matters is that it is titled as a new vehicle. It could
> > literally be new, or just newly assembled from old components and
> > re-titled. For example, I got the $2000 tax credit on my 1980
> ComutaVan,
> > because I bought it with a "salvage" title and re-titled it in 1993 as
> a
> > "1993 Assembled Electric Car" (that's what the state of Michigan
> called
> > it).
> >
>
> Does the car have to have a salvage title to do this? Could a fully
> functioning non-salvaged car be re-titled in this way to make it a "new"
> car eligible for the tax credit?
>
> -Bryan Avery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use a 2x4 about 6 feet long. Attach a battery to the middle of the
2x4. Now two people, on on each end of the 2x4 can easily lift the battery.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aubrey Wilder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:43 PM
Subject: Lifting batteries
> Quick question. Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in and
out
> of the car or do you just rely on brute force? My batteries are 90 pounds
> each and I only weigh 130, so I can't even lift them. Are there any tools
> out there?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yuck, sleeping in a van in fresno, Hot enough for ya? I feel for ya
Lawrence Rhodes. I was beginning to think everyone on the list lived
back east.
I just learned more about recent alternators than I wanted, I am aching
to build an EV partily so I can KNOW whats going on under the hood.
I replaced the motor in my ICE (95 grand am). It shot a rod and I didn't
have time for a conversion. I got a 2000 year motor and the alternator
is in cahots with the ECM in that year. The ECM tells the regulator when
to come on and shut off and the regulator provides a pwm signal to
indicate it's charging activity. Connecting this up to the 95's computer
blew the regulator. I now have the 330ohm resistor in the lamp wire as
instructed by the regualator people. The point to this is that the
regulators have gotten more sophisticated in recent years. Mine(CS130D)
is set for 14.7 volts has a temp sensor in it and a soft start where it
limits the charge right after the start up.The voltage drops as the
battery charges automaticly, I was told there is a little computer chip
in the regulator now. They are much better at protecting the battery.
There is a battery sense input for batteries that are some distance away
from alt. http://www.transpo.de/catalog/US_cat.html
I have a red-top optima as my starting battery in my mitsubish PU ( the
donar car for the EV I am planning). It has seen some abuse from the bad
alternator( I know, 2 bad alternators in the same week, tell me about
it) and the heat and vibration. I would say AGM's are actually better
in the auomotive alternator environment than the floodies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aubrey, I have a bad back and I'm building a small crane to change the
batteries in my C-car. So, do you have two feet of clearance above the
batteries and an opening on either side? I just want to be independent, a
two hundred fifty pound friend capable of lifting them would be more
practical. tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aubrey Wilder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:43 PM
Subject: Lifting batteries
> Quick question. Does anyone have any tips for lifting batteries in and
out
> of the car or do you just rely on brute force? My batteries are 90 pounds
> each and I only weigh 130, so I can't even lift them. Are there any tools
> out there?
>
> Thanks,
> Aubrey
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know it's not popular on this list but the change should come as no
surprise. As technology increases, company's will find less and less
reason to support products like, DOS, Windows 3.1, 8 Track tape, plain
text emails, Sony Beta tapes, etc.
I'm a guy that still uses DOS and DOS software daily, and yet I've long
ago given up on expecting a comeback of support for the product.
Up until now I've been satisfied with AOL. I've found it to give a
faster and more reliable dialup than many of it's rivals. However,
they've managed to piss me off bigtime. With the introduction of version
8.0 it is now totally impossible to generate emails in plain text format
from within AOL. It was difficult enough under AOL 7 (early versions)
and I've discovered the facility was removed from later releases.
Customer support don't seem to know about this issue.
If you also use AOL, DON'T UPGRADE!
Solutions if you wan't to keep AOL.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Ryan Fulcher wrote:
> yup, thanx for all the help, www.evrental.com was good, and we have a
> reservation for tomorrow at LAX(LX3?), through Budget. Never been to
> LA before, so I thought we'de just drive arround for a while, maybe go
> to the beach. I have a map of the chargers and have printed it out from
> ev1-club.power.net/chglist.htm
>
> I'm gonna bring a video camera and try to get a lot of footage of the
> car, for when they decide to deny it's existance entirely.
>
> Anyone know of any good EV1 tricks?
> Like disableing the governor? <G>rin
>
Ryan, you might want to go here to get an idea of how I handled my LA based, EV
Rentals
'EV1 experience':
http://www.portev.org/commentary/living_in_the_past.htm
See Ya........John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 07/03/03
at 01:51 PM, Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>Anyone know of any good EV1 tricks?
>Like disableing the governor? <G>rin
I thought that was a Darryl Issa trick! (he's the guy leading the recall
effort against California Governor Gray Davis). :-0
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-----------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> An ex coworker from Baldor Motors and Drives stopped
> buy for the weekend. He switched jobs and is now
> working at the University of Illinois. One of his
> projects is developing an interesting battery
> equalizer.
> You can see the concept at the Patent office.
> http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html
> 5,710,504
> Unlike many of the other balancers this system
> does not shuttle overcharge current to a resistor.
> I would like to get some feedback from the
> balancing guru's on the list.
This method, dubbed the "flying capacitor" method, has been discussed
many times. I even tried it myself some years ago, and posted the
results. Briefly, it works, but not well enough to justify itself.
The fundamental problem can be seen if you simply parallel two lead-acid
batteries, and watch the current that flows between them. The current
falls to an insignificant level very quickly, and it takes many DAYS for
them to reach the same state of charge.
Another problem is that the efficiency is not very good. The voltage
difference between batteries is consumed by the capacitor's ESR and the
voltage drop or resistance of whatever switching devices you use.
Finally, it takes an enormous capacitor value to transfer any
significant number of amphours. If you try to compensate with a high
switching frequency, then switching losses in the switches burn up still
more energy.
Performance can be significantly improved just by adding an inductor in
series with the capacitor. By properly timing the switching, the
capacitor can be resonantly charged to a higher voltage from one
battery, and then resonantly discharged into the other battery. This
drastically reduces the capacitance value required, and significantly
lowers the peak current, reducing switching and I^2R losses.
But, now you have in effect a typical switching power supply. Exactly
the circuit this patent says is too complicated and expensive.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
It's easier of you go off digest, then filter your e-mails by subject line
into a different folder. Then you can scan each message and delete ones you
don't need to read.
brad
At 12:25 PM 07/03/2003 -0400, you wrote:
All,
Awhile back someone mentioned the importance of trimming the old
email
off of your reply. On top of the many good reasons he listed for
trimming lengthy replies, another good reason to do this is for those of
us who use Linux and the most popular e-mail program for Linux, Ximian.
I receive the EV list in digest form.
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bryan Avery wrote:
> Does the car have to have a salvage title to do this? Could a fully
> functioning non-salvaged car be re-titled in this way to make it a
> "new" car eligible for the tax credit?
You can "junk" any car as long as you own it. It doesn't have to be
wrecked, or have anything wrong with it.
The process to re-title it varies a bit from state to state. You
basically have to provide the state inspector with the serial numbers of
all the key components, (body, engine, transmission, etc.), and
documentation to prove they weren't stolen. Then they issue a new title
and VIN.
But... making an older car into a "new" car also raises its value for
tax purposes (licensing and registration). I had to pay much more for my
ComutaVan license plates and registration because the state considered
it a "new" car. This can also affect your insurance premiums as well.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Good idea! A little sweat equity and you get a free car and the world gets
a little cleaner.
brad
At 04:37 PM 07/03/2003 -0700, you wrote:
Brad Waddell wrote:
>
> I was looking at the paper today and saw ads for "donate your car to
> charity for a tax deduction".
>
> If a group of electric car conversion people was setup, could they not be
> organized as a non-profit, offer a tax deduction for the donated cars, sell
> of the ones not appropriate to conversion, convert the rest, and consider
> it a vehicle recycling company?
>
> just a thought.
And it's a good thought.
I have worked with Habitat for Humanity for years. This is an
organization that helps poor people build their own homes. It has become
literally the largest home builder in the world!
Basically, people sign up on a list. They help build a house for whoever
is on top of the list. In the process, they learn basic building skills.
When that house is done, the new owner gets it, free and clear! Now they
start on the next person's home. If you put in enough work, you get a
free house! The building materials are usually donated or purchased with
contributions from interested individuals or companies.
It struck me that this model might work for building EVs. Join a club,
convert a donated car into an EV, and the top person on the list gets
it! And, they know how it's built and how to care for it!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And you would call it what? Mobility for Mankind??? {grin}
.Steve Coallier
"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway!"
-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Waddell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 7:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CalCars Plan - nonprofit?
Lee,
Good idea! A little sweat equity and you get a free car and the world gets
a little cleaner.
brad
At 04:37 PM 07/03/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>
>It struck me that this model might work for building EVs. Join a club,
>convert a donated car into an EV, and the top person on the list gets
>it! And, they know how it's built and how to care for it!
>--
>Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
>814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
>Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
>leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jon said that the circuit board layout is
very critical along with capacitor ESR.
He claims his research yields an effective
balancer. I'll wait for the results and report
back to the list. They are still working with
small Amp*Hr batteries (less than 30 I think).
This may play into some of Lee's concerns.
Hopefully there will be some positive results
from Jon's research. If so I'll report it to
the list.
Rod
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rod Hower wrote:
> >
> > An ex coworker from Baldor Motors and Drives
> stopped
> > buy for the weekend. He switched jobs and is now
> > working at the University of Illinois. One of his
> > projects is developing an interesting battery
> > equalizer.
> > You can see the concept at the Patent office.
> > http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html
> > 5,710,504
> > Unlike many of the other balancers this system
> > does not shuttle overcharge current to a resistor.
> > I would like to get some feedback from the
> > balancing guru's on the list.
>
> This method, dubbed the "flying capacitor" method,
> has been discussed
> many times. I even tried it myself some years ago,
> and posted the
> results. Briefly, it works, but not well enough to
> justify itself.
>
> The fundamental problem can be seen if you simply
> parallel two lead-acid
> batteries, and watch the current that flows between
> them. The current
> falls to an insignificant level very quickly, and it
> takes many DAYS for
> them to reach the same state of charge.
>
> Another problem is that the efficiency is not very
> good. The voltage
> difference between batteries is consumed by the
> capacitor's ESR and the
> voltage drop or resistance of whatever switching
> devices you use.
>
> Finally, it takes an enormous capacitor value to
> transfer any
> significant number of amphours. If you try to
> compensate with a high
> switching frequency, then switching losses in the
> switches burn up still
> more energy.
>
> Performance can be significantly improved just by
> adding an inductor in
> series with the capacitor. By properly timing the
> switching, the
> capacitor can be resonantly charged to a higher
> voltage from one
> battery, and then resonantly discharged into the
> other battery. This
> drastically reduces the capacitance value required,
> and significantly
> lowers the peak current, reducing switching and I^2R
> losses.
>
> But, now you have in effect a typical switching
> power supply. Exactly
> the circuit this patent says is too complicated and
> expensive.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still
> can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect
> offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in
> everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets
> in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A last graph (until something new pops up)-- the
second finish charge, per the company's recc's, at
http://home.ix.netcom.com/~fw/finish1-2.jpg and on the
Evercel Yahoo Group in the files section.
Indeed a noticeable amperage drop: this battery is
telling you when its no longer thirsty. Stable temp.
So there's a complete set of the second cycle on the
first batt: discharge1-2, bulk1-2, and finish1-2.
More as I find more of interest.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Jul 2003 at 1:41 PM, David Roden made reference to the "Chinese
sweatshop". I believe you get what you pay for. But you bring up working
conditions of foreign workers, and touches a nerve with me. Specifically,
my daughter was killed when her employer, a multi billion dollar
corporation, forced her to drive an unsafe vehicle. Her immediate superior
told her the vehicle "needs to be replaced" When money means more than
safety somethings wrong. That quarter Zions Bank set a quarterly record.
The State of Utah's "Exclusive Remedy" law prohibits us from taking legal
action against the Bank. tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Timers, electrical 120V
> On 2 Jul 2003 at 19:57, tom peterson wrote:
>
> > Lowe's has an Intermatic timer for hot water
> > heaters etc. But that's $47.97.
>
> And how much will you save in power costs?
>
> There's a good reason that the Intermatic costs ten times what the Chinese
> sweatshop timers cost: It's designed to work reliably without attention
for
> many years, not to sell as cheaply as possible. As in most things, you
get
> what you pay for. If you want a timer that won't surprise you some
morning,
> you'll have to dig down a little deeper.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brandon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: AOL 8.0
> Up until now I've been satisfied with AOL. I've found it to give a
> faster and more reliable dialup than many of it's rivals.
As an early user of AOL, I grew into the internet on it. And yes, initially
it was the greatest. And even years later when I became more computer savvy,
it still worked well enough for my needs and was like an old shoe.
>However they've managed to piss me off bigtime. Customer support don't
seem to know about this issue.>
They terminally hacked me off a couple of months ago. And yes AOLs CS team
couldn't (as a rule, met a couple of good guys over the years, didn't last
long) support their A** with both hands. When I called in to cancel my
account and they saw how long I had been a user, they gave my 2 free months,
and when I called back in to verify the cancellation they offered me another
2 months, and have even E-mailed me begging me to come back with more free
month offers. Good riddance!!
> If you also use AOL, DON'T UPGRADE!<
Even better, DOWNGRADE!! Get a copy of 7.0 and browse the CD. There is a
Version 5.0 on it. Install it on the same machine ( I had both Ver 7.0 and
5.0 installed on mine, they ignore each other). That way whenever you want
to read your EV list or more importantly Post to any list that doesn't
support HTML, Log on with the Ver. 5.0 shortcut. Its a little inconvenient,
that is the main reason I did so little posting over the last year or so.
When I really wanted to reply to a post I usually found that I was on 7.0
and said NM rather than switch versions. I imagine that some here would
rather I HAD stayed with AOL :-).
I even have an account on Wal Mart Connect, would recommend that over AOL,
almost same format/service and only $ 9.95 a month unlimited. I mostly keep
that account for a friend that I put on the net and as an extra way to get
e-mail when travelling.
I do have to tell you since dumping AOL in favor of a simple local 56K
dialup account from a reliable local ISP (FastQ) I couldn't be happier. Back
to 49K downloads and 99.9% no discons. I did find that changing to a USR
Internet Pro "hardware type" modem ( 80.00 from Frys Electronics) has helped
stability over the typical 56K WinModem as well. Good Luck, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
