EV Digest 2900
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: AOL 8.0
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Switched capacitor battery equalizer
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT: Trimming REs
by Martin Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Switched capacitor battery equalizer
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: How to title a ground-up EV project
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Monitoring Pack current
by "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) 84 mitsubish EVPUP for sale?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Good times at NEDRA Power of DC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RE: Monitoring Pack current
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Siemens AC Motors On TP
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Wall Wart Modular Charging
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Cycle Counter
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Wall Wart Modular Charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Cycle Counter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Eee Vee One Fun
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
by "Eric Penne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Cycle Counter
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Monitoring Pack current
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I know it's not popular on this list but the change should come as no
surprise.
It's not just this list, it's any decently high volume list. They all
ban HTML mail because it clogs the system badly and is not as
cross-platform capable. And all well-designed e-mail programs still
support it. Even M$ Outlook can do this. AOL seems to be the only one
forcing HTML on it's users. Yet another in the long list of reasons
to boycott AOL and all it's crap.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought some of you might be interested. Even though he says he can't in
the future he might. He has a contract with the govt. I have no financial
interest. Lawrence Rhodes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaw Shademan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:30 AM
Subject: CNG Vehicles
> Hello Lawrence,
>
> Thank you for your email and I'm glad the van performed well on your
trip.
> Unfortuantely, I cannot get a hold of electric vehicles because a lot of
> of them are owned by the state and they will not sell them off. However,
I
> can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are interested, I
> can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of all
> sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let me
know
> if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you Lawrence!
>
> Shaw
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
12 hours later they are still warm and around 128v............sigh
Lawrence Rhodes..........
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The fundamental problem can be seen if you simply parallel two lead-acid
batteries, and watch the current that flows between them. The current
falls to an insignificant level very quickly, and it takes many DAYS for
them to reach the same state of charge.
How about just charging this capacitor up to full pack voltage and
then dumping it into the single lowest voltage battery. Start early
(use always) and *hope* its enuf extra charge to get it up so that
the finish charge doesn't cook the stronger ones. Yes, a weak
attempt, but good AGMs that live from day one as a pack don't tend to
be very far off.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve wrote:
I love these names , What do you call (other that dangerous ) a charger that
run's off the two hot legs with one diode on each and uses the middle or
ground as the negative. "a double dealing bad boy"?
Bad Boy = rectifier bridge and extension cords
Super Bad Boy = 1 diode on each hot leg of a 240 circuit, neutral to
the other end of the pack. Likely to melt the insulation off the
neutral wire.
Bad Boy with Table Manners = add an inductor (possibly other ways too?)
Third World Charger = an isolation transformer plus bridge rectifier,
may also include an ammeter, voltmeter and/or simple timer shutoff
Variac charger = A bridge and a variac to control the output (needs a
better name)
I'm not sure what to call a box full of capacitors and a bridge
rectifier. These limit current very nicely and can charge any voltage
pack, but have a bad power factor.
I'm not sure a 1/2 wave 120vac bad boy style charger has been named
(lonely diode?).
Would someone like to explain the "Crazy Boy" charger to Steve?
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a CNG vehicle? I
know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck stops, but where
do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you would want to do
this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as well? thanks.
brad
At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
However, I
> can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are interested, I
> can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of all
> sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let me
know
> if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you Lawrence!
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't forget to add my favorite, the ping-pong charger.
> Bad Boy = rectifier bridge and extension cords
>
> Super Bad Boy = 1 diode on each hot leg of a 240 circuit, neutral to
> the other end of the pack. Likely to melt the insulation off the
> neutral wire.
>
> Bad Boy with Table Manners = add an inductor (possibly other ways too?)
>
> Third World Charger = an isolation transformer plus bridge rectifier,
> may also include an ammeter, voltmeter and/or simple timer shutoff
>
> Variac charger = A bridge and a variac to control the output (needs a
> better name)
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most houses in the US have it piped in already. All you need to do is
add a compressor. This (and super low emissions) is one of the reasons
for using natural gas.
On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 12:30, Brad Waddell wrote:
> Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a CNG vehicle? I
> know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck stops, but where
> do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you would want to do
> this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as well? thanks.
>
> brad
>
> At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >However, I
> > > can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are interested, I
> > > can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of all
> > > sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let me
> > know
> > > if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you Lawrence!
>
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
>
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brad,
It depends on where you line, check with the city fleets. Here in Vegas
there are several places to get CNG, we have a fast fill CNG station where I
work, but you have to apply for a special credit card and refuel during
working hours, we have also started paperwork on a hydrogen refueling
station, also open to the public, we have NEV in our fleet but sadly no real
EV's or recharging stations for EV's, the big three pulled the plug on them
before we were able to get our hands on them, I just don't a leg to stand on
to get a charging station for Ev's that is open to the public or me, (yet).
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a CNG vehicle? I
> know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck stops, but where
> do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you would want to do
> this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as well? thanks.
>
> brad
>
> At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >However, I
> > > can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are
interested, I
> > > can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of
all
> > > sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let
me
> > know
> > > if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you
Lawrence!
>
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Mike Brandon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Subject: RE: AOL 8.0
"I'm a guy that still uses DOS and DOS software daily, and yet I've long
ago given up on expecting a comeback of support for the product."
My use of DOS might be a habit, but my provider supports terminal
program access (VT-100 ?). Using Telix, I delete spam and probable
virus content before downloading from a simple list of messages. Did
download a virus once from a friend. If there is an html message that
I want to read (newspaper/magazine articles), I cut them out of the
mail packet using Edit, name it .htm and read it in Internet Explorer.
Might I point out that DOS doesn't require support. It isn't pretty
(except for DOSSHELL), but it is efficient and fast.
Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Subject: Re: OT: Trimming REs
"It's easier of you go off digest, then filter your e-mails by subject line
into a different folder. Then you can scan each message and delete ones you
don't need to read."
"you wrote:
> Awhile back someone mentioned the importance of trimming the old email
>off of your reply. On top of the many good reasons he listed for
>trimming lengthy replies, another good reason to do this is for those of
>us who use Linux and the most popular e-mail program for Linux, Ximian.
>I receive the EV list in digest form."
Cull the digest out of the mail herd and read it in a editing program
rather than a e-mail program.
The digest is super efficient. Most file readers (List, Edit, Wordpad)
allow a search function that will zip you to the next "Subject:"
Just above that will be the 1 sentence reply to the 43 line quote
unless it was at the top. Different strokes.....
______________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G wrote:
> How about just charging this capacitor up to full pack voltage and
> then dumping it into the single lowest voltage battery.
The larger the voltage difference, the poorer the efficiency.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:03 PM -0700 7/4/03, Paul G wrote:
Bad Boy with Table Manners = add an inductor (possibly other ways too?)
We've been using a "Bad boy with manners" chargers for years.
They are a simple bad boy with a 13V boost transformer for 144V packs
plus a Pic microprocessor which turns them off with a relay when the
charge is done. End of charge is determined through dv/dt or a
internal timer. They can even detect a blown fuse.
Third World Charger = an isolation transformer plus bridge
rectifier, may also include an ammeter, voltmeter and/or simple
timer shutoff
Variac charger = A bridge and a variac to control the output (needs
a better name)
I'm not sure what to call a box full of capacitors and a bridge
rectifier. These limit current very nicely and can charge any
voltage pack, but have a bad power factor.
That would be a "Ugly box charger".
Hey Wayland, was that Joe who made the first one of those for you?
I made a ugly box charger that ran with the "bad boy with manners"
control board via 4 solid state relays to vary the current level. I
then added a pulse charging finish which did wonders to temporarily
rejuvenate some very old Hawkers that I had been abusing. So many
unisolated options! But I really want isolation.
Tom Hudson suggested a open source charger, I assume he means
isolated (if I read his intentions correctly). I'd be happy to
contribute a little time to that project, especially if it fit's the
specs I want (32A input, PFC, isolated, smart, inexpensive etc) If
there is interest I'll set up a mailing list for it, or we could just
do it on evtech.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>> In Michigan, one of the screwy ones was that they require an
>>> exhaust system.
>> That is COMPLETELY insane.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I agree. Hey Lee, did you ask to actually see the rule that
> requires this?
Yes. I even knew about this rule in advance. Michigan had a several-page
form that listed all the requirements for a home-built car (turn
signals, brake lights, windshield, wipers, seat belts, horn, etc.).
Included on that list was an exhaust system. I met all the rest, but
assumed the exhaust pipe requirement would be waived for an EV by any
reasonable inspector. I was wrong.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So, how hard is it to build a tiny little ISOLATED DC-DC that
> will take in
> 12V and output 5V DC? (or even 3.3V) at about 100ma? (Actually,
> I probably
> only need about 20ma)
>
> All the pre-built ones I've found have either been WAY overkill (20A), or
> not isolated. It also seems that 12V to 5V is an unpopular conversion.
Check this one out, John:
http://www.cdpowerelectronics.com/products/pdf/pdc_wpc03r_a.pdf
The one you'd want would be the WPC03R12S05E
9-18VDC in
5VDC out
1500V isolation
600ma rated load
Not terribly cheap, though (<$20 each in quantity). Mouser Electronics
carries these. This is just an initial quick investigation -- I'd bet there
are cheaper ones available for the current you require.
-Tom
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it still for sale? I am curious of specs and price. I am really most
interested in how/what was done in it's conversion. I am kinda broke at
the moment.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course with natural gas now at a buck plus a therm and going nowhere
but up (gee, thanks Enron and Bush) this will be an expensive way to
drive....
Chris
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Most houses in the US have it piped in already. All you need to do is
add a compressor. This (and super low emissions) is one of the reasons
for using natural gas.
On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 12:30, Brad Waddell wrote:
Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a CNG vehicle? I
know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck stops, but where
do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you would want to do
this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as well? thanks.
brad
At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
However, I
can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are interested, I
can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of all
sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let me
know
if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you Lawrence!
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Like every year before, the NEDRA Power of DC was awesome!
I got to the track before any of the days racing had started. Shawn Lawless
was already there with his crew, so I set up shop next door. Although I'd met
Shawn last year, I had only heard about 'Orange Juice'. Wow. Nice piece of
machinery. Different approach, but looks like it works! I guarantee we'll be
seeing more exciting things from him in the near future.
The 'Piranha' is the same old bike I've had since the first Power of DC. OK,
the frame's the same, whats left of it anyway.
I ran a low 9.8- and a high 9.7- in the 1/8 mile. Very consistent with the
test and tune from the week before. Closing in on the MT/I record, but some
changes needed to be done. An extreme gear change yielded me a 12.0. Then in
an attempt to drive some heat into those hawkers, I blew up my bad boy
charger. Shawn's team offered me their really bad boy, but as most of us know,
different color anderson's don't mix. I got a partial charge in with my
craftsman (that's why I bring so many parts and tools). With some different
driving technique, ran a 10.5. Most impressive was probably the 78MPH 1/4 mile
speed! Not bad for 48V.
Other cool stuff:
Bob Salem running with 20 hawkers for power and another 20 for ballast. Can't
wait till he gets that all hooked up. A stiff pack and that new zilla should
turn some heads!
Shawn's daily driver side car cycle. Very pretty machine. Didn't keep up with
me, but looked quite a bit more comfortable to drive.
Central Shenandoah Valley Regional Governor's School 240-Z was running at 120V
this year, up from 96V.
Another school this year, Northeastern High School's "Voltsdragon".
But still most cool was 'Orange Juice' Wow wow wow. OK maybe I need to make a
trip out west to some NEDRA drags, but that was the quickest EV I'VE ever seen.
Makes me want to try 240V next!
Someday.
Darin Gilbert
Bad Fish Racing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:04 PM 7/4/2003 -0500, Tom Hudson wrote:
Check this one out, John:
http://www.cdpowerelectronics.com/products/pdf/pdc_wpc03r_a.pdf
Thanks, I forgot to check Mouser.
They apparently also care the NME1205S for around $9.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, thanks. Another limitation of an EV lover living in an apartment! Add
that to the list along with no 220v plugs...
brad
At 06:43 PM 07/04/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Of course with natural gas now at a buck plus a therm and going nowhere
but up (gee, thanks Enron and Bush) this will be an expensive way to
drive....
Chris
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Most houses in the US have it piped in already. All you need to do is
add a compressor. This (and super low emissions) is one of the reasons
for using natural gas.
On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 12:30, Brad Waddell wrote:
Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a CNG vehicle?
I know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck stops, but
where do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you would
want to do this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as
well? thanks.
brad
At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
However, I
can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are interested, I
can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of all
sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let me
know
if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you Lawrence!
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Couple of weeks ago I saw those Siemens AC Drives on the Tradin Post and
like many of you I sent them an inquiry. I just got a reply today that the
lot has already been sold. I was wondering if anyone knows who got them and
what they are going to use for inverters? Victor told me he couldn't sell an
inverter without a drive. Maybe the buyer made a deal direct with Siemens?
Should be interesting. David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted.
> Look at the label; see if they are listed as "class 2". A class 2
> transformer is deliberately built with poor coupling and high resistance
> windings to limit the maximum current. This makes them run hot and have
> poor efficiency (about 50%). A class 2 transformer won't deliver more
current if you cool it better.<
Yep, right on the back, Class 2. At least they were cheap. I will probably
keep a couple dozen for projects and then just E-bay the rest.
> If you really wanted to use these as battery chargers, you would need to
add some sort of regulator circuit. The simplest would be a 3-terminal
regulator, trimmed for a safe float voltage around 13.5v.<
Any particular part # in mind? I am thinking of using the guts of one of
these as a simple crude 12 V PS for driving some 12 V relays. DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been searching for a counter for my Auto Battery cycler (Thanks Joe
and Lee for all your help on this project), and have not had much success
finding anything reasonably priced except a couple mechanical counters Lee
offered me that need a little tinkering. BTW Lee, I havn't decided against
those counters yet, just exploring other methods. I got to thinking that we
are now in year 2003 and there are microchips already made that do just
about everything and do it better and smaller than the mechanical solutions.
For my ABC project, all I really need is to be able to make a 12 VDC
counter with a 2 digit LED display that I can "program" a 2 digit # into
(1-99) with a push button/rocker switch and that when activated will count
down to zero with ea 12 VDC input pulse and then open a relay. This in the
counter industry is called a predetermining event counter. While there are
hundreds of companies making thousands of these type of counters, invariably
they are all way overkill in terms of features and the cost is almost
laughable. I have also been searching sites for kits that I could adapt, but
so far all I have found is this >http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3154.htm<.
Actually this quasar kit looks perfect even tho it it too has way more
features than needed, but the price is great especially considering the
other industrial counters I have found are in the $250-NASA price range. I
am probably going to order one of these anyway for another project that can
benefit from the additional features, just hate to buy out of country if I
can find something similar or more to my needs in the US. Any thoughts or
part/kit source recommendations? Regards, DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> If you really wanted to use these as battery chargers, you would
>> need to add some sort of regulator circuit. The simplest would be
>> a 3-terminal regulator, trimmed for a safe float voltage around
>> 13.5v.
David Chapman wrote:
> Any particular part # in mind? I am thinking of using the guts
> of one of these as a simple crude 12 V PS for driving some 12 V
> relays. DC.
If it has a filter capacitor inside, then you can use an LM317 and two
resistors to set the output voltage.
If it has no filter capacitor, then I'd use a discrete regulator, like
this. It eliminates the need for an expensive capacitor:
+13vdc___________c e____+13.5v regulated
unregulated | _\___/_
> |b NPN power transistor
R1 > | 2N3055, etc.
100 ohms > |
|_____|
|
D1 _|_/
1N5244B //_\
14v 5% |
common_____________|______common
You can use any NPN power transistor; the 2N3055 is easy to find surplus
and is a big TO-3 case, so you don't need a heatsink. If you use a
TO-220 case, you'll need to mount it on a heatsink.
Pick the value of R1 to give you the desired maximum output current.
(like 0.8a for your 13v 10.w wall warts).
Pick the zener to be about 0.6v higher than the desired battery float
voltage (14v gives about 13.4v out).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
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David Chapman wrote:
> http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3154.htm
Looks good, though you have to build it. Also, do they have a US
distributor?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Hello to All,
Otmar wrote:
> >I'm not sure what to call a box full of capacitors and a bridge
> >rectifier. These limit current very nicely and can charge any
> >voltage pack, but have a bad power factor.
>
> That would be a "Ugly box charger".
> Hey Wayland, was that Joe who made the first one of those for you?
It was crazed Washitonian EVer Pat Sweeney. The first version was indeed, quite ugly,
hence the name 'Ugly Box'. It had 16 oil-filled motor-run type, 45 mfd caps, and a
three
step charge regime with automatic shutdown, too, all controlled by a processor board
that
worked flawlessly until it got zapped and fried when a heavy current leg wire broke
loose
and landed on the board!
The second version Ugly Box is still in existence here at my EV shop, and is one I put
together, but it's now in a much cleaner looking aluminum housing with nice solid state
relays to bring in each capacitor bank, but it is also now lacking any microprocessor
guts to control the charge...you just flip on as many switches as you want to dial in a
certain current level, and hope you don't forget to turn it off. It doesn't see too
much
duty anymore, with that wonderful hopped-up PFC20 I have (delivers up to 30 amps if you
want to risk the internal fuse, and regularly dishes out 28-29 amps).
>We've been using a "Bad boy with manners" chargers for years.
>They are a simple bad boy with a 13V boost transformer for 144V packs
By the way, the 'Modified Bad Boy' I made for Blue Meanie, still lives under its hood
as a
back-up charger. It is a very compact, (4.25" X 5.5" X 6"), clean-looking charger made
of
stainless steel with a finned black heat sink. With the Meanie's 156V pack, I use a
dual
secondary winding, toroidal style boost transformer, with a 120vac primary and twin
24vac,
10 amp secondaries in parallel for 20 amps... the secondary voltage is in series with
the
AC line juice before it goes through the bridge rectifier. The transformer is only
about
the size of a really big doughnut, and is crammed inside the small Bad Boy housing
with a
BDC fan to cool it off. A 30 amp pop-out breaker, a green 'power on' pilot light, a
red 50
amp Anderson DC output connector, a pigtail style AC power input cord with a 20 amp
120vac
plug, and a 0-20 amp ammeter complete the parts lineup for this very dependable,
although
basic charger. With a 12 gauge extension cord and a hungry battery pack, it can
deliver 15
amps into the pack, but this will generally pop a 20 amp wall breaker in a minute or
so.
With a 16 gauge, 25 ft. extension cord, it delivers about 11 amps and doesn't pop the
breaker (just barely though), while the cord gets warm, but not hot. The bad thing
about
Bad Boys, is that while they can deliver high initial charge currents, they are not
sophisticated enough to deliver that level of current at a constant rate, and the 12-15
amp charge current starts to ramp down slowly, so that an hour later, the charge
current
might only be 6 amps. A couple hours later, the current can be at around 4 amps....and
so
it goes. To get an 80% charge then, may take 6 hours. The good news, is that
eventually,
the charge juice goes to around .5 amp, so if you forget and leave the car plugged
in for a day or two, it's no big deal and it only amounts to a very nice low level
equalization charge!
Of course, my PFC20 has changed all this. With a 240vac input, it can deliver very
high,
very constant charge levels to get my 13 Optimas up to nearly full in an
hour or less.....then, it begins its second phase at the constant voltage charge rate,
where the
current ramps down while holding the pack at a predetermined voltage level for a
predetermined time....then, like an obedient servant, it shuts down. Even on just
120vac,
the PFC20 can deliver 13-13.5 amps in to the pack without tripping my shop's 20 amp
breaker!
See Ya......John Wayland
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Whoops, you are right, working from memory I thought it was kw when
it was hp. Makes that acceleration all the more impressive!
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> David Dymaxion wrote:
>
> > So what makes the EV1 so fast? It isn�t brute power, as its 137
> kW
> > works out to be 183 crankshaft horsepower for a 3000 pound car.
>
> A friendly correction......you've got your EV1 numbers a bit
> confused. The EV1 has a 102
> KW motor, not 137 KW, but its motor does produce 137 HP.
> Your 183 HP figure must be a recall of the top speed a race
> prepared 'GM Impact'
> (forerunner to the EV1) hit back in 1994 at Fort Stockton, Texas,
> when it set a world
> land-speed record for a
> production electric vehicle at 183 mph.
>
> The fact that the EV1 performs the way it does with just 137 HP to
> move nearly 3000 lbs.,
> is a testament of the superior power of an electric motor, when
> being compared to a gas
> engine at the same rated HP.
> ... I enjoyed your EV1 street race stories!
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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As for an open source charger:
"me too!"
I would be interested in helping, not sure what I can do exactly. I have
a background in mechanical CADD and sheet metal. I have built a motor
controller, but I am not at all expert. I own a non-profit license of
Eagle schematic and layout tool (100 x 160mm), but I am not too good at it.
So if there is an effort, count me in. My needs are NEV voltages
(36-96V) and peak detecting for NiCad chemistry.
Seth
Otmar wrote:
<snip>
>
> Tom Hudson suggested a open source charger, I assume he means
> isolated (if I read his intentions correctly). I'd be happy to
> contribute a little time to that project, especially if it fit's the
> specs I want (32A input, PFC, isolated, smart, inexpensive etc) If
> there is interest I'll set up a mailing list for it, or we could just
> do it on evtech.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I calculated the cost per kWh in our area with gasoline at $1.35/gallon and
natural gas (methane) at $1.68/ccf:
Methane .057 $/kWh
Gasoline .040 $/kWh
Methane may finally be getting the premium pricing it deserves, being a
cleaner and easier burning fuel for many applications.
ICE's last a lot longer with less maintenance when they burn methane instead
of gasoline.
Mark T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> Of course with natural gas now at a buck plus a therm and going nowhere
> but up (gee, thanks Enron and Bush) this will be an expensive way to
> drive....
>
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I know the answer to this one. Using a 24 battery system as an example.
24 MK2s - $1200
1 big ass iso transformer - $300
1 PFC-20 charger - $1500
The iso transformer would probably stay at home.
So for a home charging package you would have $3000 wrapped up in a really
nice charging system.
>>
>> On 4 Jul 2003 at 1:32, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>>
>> > Next charger will sense over charging. This was a costly
>> > mistake....
>>
>> Cheaping out on the charger is always false economy.
>>
>
> You know, as someone who is lucky enough to have a programmable charger
> that completely removes the burden of having to babysit battery charging
> operations, and as someone who has a ton of experience with software
> design and a fair amount of electronics experience, I have to ask: Is
> anyone out there interested in working on a collaborative effort to
> design a
> microprocessor-controlled charger that can be made available to EV
> enthusiasts at a low price? I will donate my time to the effort, and I
> know we could do it a LOT cheaper than some of the other alternatives,
> such as the Brusa charger I have.
>
> I would suggest that such a charger could be built and sold at cost to
> EV enthusiasts in order to provide temperature-compensated charging for
> any kind of battery chemistry without the risk of melting down a battery
> pack or burning down someone's garage. It would do wonders for
> improving the state of the EV industry.
>
> You shouldn't have to pay $5000 for a battery charger just to get a
> safe, reliable charge. Anyone out there interested in working on this?
>
> -Tom
>
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
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The P&B CNT-35 is only $75.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 5:48 PM
Subject: Cycle Counter
> I have been searching for a counter for my Auto Battery cycler (Thanks Joe
> and Lee for all your help on this project), and have not had much success
> finding anything reasonably priced except a couple mechanical counters Lee
> offered me that need a little tinkering. BTW Lee, I havn't decided against
> those counters yet, just exploring other methods. I got to thinking that
we
> are now in year 2003 and there are microchips already made that do just
> about everything and do it better and smaller than the mechanical
solutions.
> For my ABC project, all I really need is to be able to make a 12 VDC
> counter with a 2 digit LED display that I can "program" a 2 digit # into
> (1-99) with a push button/rocker switch and that when activated will count
> down to zero with ea 12 VDC input pulse and then open a relay. This in the
> counter industry is called a predetermining event counter. While there are
> hundreds of companies making thousands of these type of counters,
invariably
> they are all way overkill in terms of features and the cost is almost
> laughable. I have also been searching sites for kits that I could adapt,
but
> so far all I have found is this
>http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3154.htm<.
> Actually this quasar kit looks perfect even tho it it too has way more
> features than needed, but the price is great especially considering the
> other industrial counters I have found are in the $250-NASA price range. I
> am probably going to order one of these anyway for another project that
can
> benefit from the additional features, just hate to buy out of country if I
> can find something similar or more to my needs in the US. Any thoughts or
> part/kit source recommendations? Regards, DC.
>
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After 25 hours the vented batteries interconnect is just slightly warm to
the touch and all the other interconnects are cool to the touch as are all
the batteries. The resting voltage after one day rest is 128.49 vdc.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
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Why build when you can buy one for under $20.
One of my favorites is the ETA-USA parts. The 8 to 32 V input/5 volt output
version is at
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&&lstdispproductid=362
253
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:43 AM
Subject: Monitoring Pack current
> I've been thinking of adding pack current monitoring to my BMS.
> Of course I want to keep the system isolated from the pack.
> So, how hard is it to build a tiny little ISOLATED DC-DC that will take in
> 12V and output 5V DC? (or even 3.3V) at about 100ma? (Actually, I
probably
> only need about 20ma)
>
> All the pre-built ones I've found have either been WAY overkill (20A), or
> not isolated. It also seems that 12V to 5V is an unpopular conversion.
>
> I guess I could use a little oscillator driving into a toroid transformer,
> then rectify, filter, and regulate the output. (bridge rectifier,
> capacitor, and 3 pin reg?)
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
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