EV Digest 2901
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Cycle Counter
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 84 mitsubish EVPUP for sale?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 2003 NEDRA Power of DC pictures are up
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Good times at NEDRA Power of DC
by "Shawn Lawless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Evercel MB80 cycling
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) test
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Monitoring Pack current
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Evercel MB80 cycling
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) NiCd overtemp
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) New EV to go into production
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New EV to go into production
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: New EV to go into production
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EV's wanted in MA and CT for display
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Fw: Power of DC, an' Stuff
by "Shawn Lawless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Wall Wart Modular Charging
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Curious about power "kick"
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Curious about power "kick"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: New EV to go into production
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by russco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.cngvc.org/ngv/cngvc.nsf/bytitle/order.htm To order the book.
http://www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/bytitle/stationlaunch.htm station
locator.
CNG is less expenisve than gas or diesel.
You can fill at home with a 1000 dollar compressor for 60 to 80 cents per
gallon. Lawrence Rhodes......
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a CNG vehicle? I
> know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck stops, but where
> do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you would want to do
> this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as well? thanks.
>
> brad
>
> At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >However, I
> > > can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are
interested, I
> > > can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of
all
> > > sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let
me
> > know
> > > if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you
Lawrence!
>
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you could use a calculator and just keep adding ones. open it up and
run some wires from the one button . clear and add. to reset.
> am probably going to order one of these anyway for another project that
can
> benefit from the additional features, just hate to buy out of country if I
> can find something similar or more to my needs in the US. Any thoughts or
> part/kit source recommendations? Regards, DC.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 2:31 PM
Subject: 84 mitsubish EVPUP for sale?
> Is it still for sale? I am curious of specs and price. I am really most
> interested in how/what was done in it's conversion. I am kinda broke at
> the moment.
>
I have done two Mitsubishi's pick up's which are the last two in the
Mitsubishi part of the album. Both were rush jobs and left lots for the
owners to do which hasn't been done. ( I have reformed from this rats nest
type of work ,but it still follows me.) The newer one is a lot heaver than
the 84 and uses about 20% more amps at 4400 lbs compared to 3700 lbs , .
The wood bed on the 84 saved a lot of weight and tilt's up for easy bat
checking. I made a
"how to " video on it which you can get more info on at
www.grassrootsev.com. . They have a dust cover on the drive shaft that if
you let hit the ground when you pull the tranny/engine will be hard to
straighten out :-) . I just got back the 84 from Jon the self appointed EV
salesman ( who has now steped up into the EV Mazda ) as he has found sombody
interested in buying it , so I get to go back over it and do the little odds
and ends . The parts and labor came to 7500
Steve Clunn
The lynx that had the bad clutch was my 2nd EV and I didn't use the
technique for centering engine to tranny I use now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A Gallery with some cool photos and Results from our 2003 NEDRA Power of DC
race are up.
http://www.powerofdc.com
http://www.powerofdc.com/main.html if you want to skip the Flash Intro
This year we had a good turnout and were lucky to have small groups of
vehicles racing including High School cars, Motorcycles, home conversions,
and AC powered cars and trucks.
Although NetGain couldn�t make it down with their dragster, because of fuel
problems with their truck, we hope to have both Orange Juice and NetGain
racing against each other next year and some more High School Cars.
So all you East Coasters get those EVs ready, and any West Coast people too.
We are also getting a video put together of the race.
I may have more photos from a CD to put up if I can get the files to open.
I'm also still writing 2003 NEDRA Power of DC Part IV, but will do that when
I get back from the beach. So there's more to come.
Chip Gribben
2003 NEDRA Power of DC Coordinator
http://www.powerofdc.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Darin,
Your Hawkers are probably glad that our Andersons didn't match up. I really
did want to see you make a run at the MT/I record.
Considering you, Bob Salem, and I live in relative proximity, it woul be
great if we could pull off a Midwest/West run to represent our part of the
country.
Perhaps Vegas in the fall. I'm sure the Current Eliminator, and possibly
Circuit Breaker will meet us there if we could make it. I'll bet
Thunderstruck would as well.
I know how much it costs to ship a dragster cross country. We may have to
get creative. If we do get there, Orange Juice is going to need to step up
to a new level to even keep the west coast guys in view. Perhaps 360 Volts?
As I said my previous posting, The Power of DC is a great event in a
beautiful setting. In my book it could only be better next year if there
were two dragsters. Do you think Net Gain would come to Vegas?
Shawn Lawless
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:30 PM
Subject: Good times at NEDRA Power of DC
> Hi all,
>
>
> Like every year before, the NEDRA Power of DC was awesome!
>
> I got to the track before any of the days racing had started. Shawn
Lawless
> was already there with his crew, so I set up shop next door. Although I'd
met
> Shawn last year, I had only heard about 'Orange Juice'. Wow. Nice piece
of
> machinery. Different approach, but looks like it works! I guarantee
we'll be
> seeing more exciting things from him in the near future.
>
> The 'Piranha' is the same old bike I've had since the first Power of DC.
OK,
> the frame's the same, whats left of it anyway.
> I ran a low 9.8- and a high 9.7- in the 1/8 mile. Very consistent with
the
> test and tune from the week before. Closing in on the MT/I record, but
some
> changes needed to be done. An extreme gear change yielded me a 12.0.
Then in
> an attempt to drive some heat into those hawkers, I blew up my bad boy
> charger. Shawn's team offered me their really bad boy, but as most of us
know,
> different color anderson's don't mix. I got a partial charge in with my
> craftsman (that's why I bring so many parts and tools). With some
different
> driving technique, ran a 10.5. Most impressive was probably the 78MPH 1/4
mile
> speed! Not bad for 48V.
>
>
> Other cool stuff:
>
> Bob Salem running with 20 hawkers for power and another 20 for ballast.
Can't
> wait till he gets that all hooked up. A stiff pack and that new zilla
should
> turn some heads!
>
> Shawn's daily driver side car cycle. Very pretty machine. Didn't keep up
with
> me, but looked quite a bit more comfortable to drive.
>
> Central Shenandoah Valley Regional Governor's School 240-Z was running at
120V
> this year, up from 96V.
>
> Another school this year, Northeastern High School's "Voltsdragon".
>
> But still most cool was 'Orange Juice' Wow wow wow. OK maybe I need to
make a
> trip out west to some NEDRA drags, but that was the quickest EV I'VE ever
seen.
>
> Makes me want to try 240V next!
>
>
> Someday.
>
>
> Darin Gilbert
> Bad Fish Racing
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I now have four cycles on my first MB80 per the company's
reccomendations of 11 amp bulk charge for 386 minutes followed by one
hour of CV at 15.8volts: Discharge results, down to the recommended
cutoff of 9.6v, are as follows:
Cycle 1 54.89Ah 46C ending temp
Cycle2 71.37Ah 51C ending temp
Cycle3 73.9Ah 48C ending temp
Cycle4 72.6Ah 55C ending temp
I am impressed by the quick growth in capacity which is testatment to
the need to "wake-up" these batts. Still a bit worried about the temps
though. Hopefully I'll get the ambient sensor and code going this
weekend.
A little lurking birdie on the Evercel-EV and EVDL has suggested a more
gentle regime of only discharging down to 12 volts for the first few
cycles. Indeed this is about where the knee of the voltage curve is and
from past discharges looked like I would have been exercising about 50Ah
of capacity had I cut off there. This is also where the heat buildup
seems to increase. So I am cycling the second batt now and shall try
several cycles of shallower discharge followed by the discharge all the
way down to 9.6v in subsequent cycles.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
It must be the charger time of the year. I have been thinking about
chargers a bit and was wondering about a simple charger almost anyone could
build. What I had in mind was something that would work as an on-board
opportunity charger or perhaps a backup charger not as the primary
charger. It could also be used for manual equalization charges. Rather
than manufacture it, it would simply be available as some plans, a parts
list, and a webpage with pictures and instructions. The basic idea I had
would be something like this:
120 VAC input, maximum 1300-1500 watts power. (So it would not be likely
to trip breakers.)
Compact, perhaps about the size of a shoe box.
Isolated, so you don't have to worry about GFCI trips or shocks.
Automatic shutoff.
How about this:
A 120 VAC 1500watt transformer, perhaps from a microwave oven or something
similar, with the secondary removed and replaced with a hand wound coil
appropriate for the pack voltage.
A current sensing shut down circuit as used by Mark Brueggemann on his
FrakenLester charger (see http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evchgr/chgcntl.html )
A simple 12 hour mechanical timer as used for attic fans as a secondary
control method for equalizing.
An appropriately sized bridge rectifier and heat sink.
A small fan to cool the transformer and heat sink.
A small circuit breaker on the AC input.
A fuse or circuit breaker on the DC output.
Perhaps a small ammeter to monitor the output current.
With this low of power, it is only going to deliver a max of something like
10 amps on a 120 volt EV so it probably would not be a realistic charger
for full time use, but that is not what it is for. At least with that low
of output, thermal runaway should be just about impossible.
I know, we are trying to get folks to realize that a good charger is
essential for a good EV and that isn't where you want to skimp, but I think
there is still a need for a charger like this. Some folks have
sophisticated micro-processor controlled chargers but they only run on
220VAC or they pull too much current on 120VAC for most common
outlets. Others are still using the large off-board chargers, and have to
live without the ability to opportunity charge. I feel that no EV should
depend on one charger. You should always have the option of a second
one. Failures will occur and Murphy's Law says the charger will only fail
when you have just heavily discharged the batteries. Any charger is better
than a dead charger.
So, is this idea worth investigating? Has anyone built something like this
they wish to share?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---
Tom Hudson wrote:
>
> >
> You shouldn't have to pay $5000 for a battery charger just to get a safe,
> reliable charge. Anyone out there interested in working on this?
>
> -Tom
>
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
I agree.
Leaving out the micro will save a LOT of hassel also.
I do it all with out a micro, and hand you 2500 watt from 120 and 5000
watts from 240, and this for $1500.
This is a long cry from $5000.
Lawerence also knows this.
I have the charger, and have been shipping it for a year or so now.
What folks want it the same feature set for less than $500, and well I
can't pay the bills at that level.
Tom maybe you need a tour of my website. All this is old news to a lot
of us.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> I've been thinking of adding pack current monitoring to my BMS.
> Of course I want to keep the system isolated from the pack.
> So, how hard is it to build a tiny little ISOLATED DC-DC that will take in
> 12V and output 5V DC? (or even 3.3V) at about 100ma? (Actually, I probably
> only need about 20ma)
>
> All the pre-built ones I've found have either been WAY overkill (20A), or
> not isolated. It also seems that 12V to 5V is an unpopular conversion.
>
> I guess I could use a little oscillator driving into a toroid transformer,
> then rectify, filter, and regulate the output. (bridge rectifier,
> capacitor, and 3 pin reg?)
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
Ummm How a about a Cosel?
ZUW3125 will do it for $19.00 from Mouser.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
fred whitridge wrote:
>
> I now have four cycles on my first MB80 per the company's
> reccomendations of 11 amp bulk charge for 386 minutes followed by one
> hour of CV at 15.8volts: Discharge results, down to the recommended
> cutoff of 9.6v, are as follows:
>
> Cycle 1 54.89Ah 46C ending temp
> Cycle2 71.37Ah 51C ending temp
> Cycle3 73.9Ah 48C ending temp
> Cycle4 72.6Ah 55C ending temp
>
> I am impressed by the quick growth in capacity which is testatment to
> the need to "wake-up" these batts. Still a bit worried about the temps
> though. Hopefully I'll get the ambient sensor and code going this
> weekend.
>
> A little lurking birdie on the Evercel-EV and EVDL has suggested a more
> gentle regime of only discharging down to 12 volts for the first few
> cycles. Indeed this is about where the knee of the voltage curve is and
> from past discharges looked like I would have been exercising about 50Ah
> of capacity had I cut off there. This is also where the heat buildup
> seems to increase. So I am cycling the second batt now and shall try
> several cycles of shallower discharge followed by the discharge all the
> way down to 9.6v in subsequent cycles.
FRED !!! please log the peak temp AFTER the discharge is over!. The temp
keeps rising for quite a while as the heat reaches the outside of the
case. Ending temp and peak temp tell how hard you pushed the battery,
and how long it takes to scrub the made heat off the battery. This is
key in designing the cooling system, and knowing how long to let them
cool after use and abuse.
Orbital testing, I hear the Battery is up here in Seattle, sometime
today it should be handed to me.
Joe and I are going to start making the 8 station battery cycler. We are
getting too many requests for battery testing, and we need more gear so
it takes less of our Spare time.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
>
> That would be a "Ugly box charger".
> Hey Wayland, was that Joe who made the first one of those for you?
>
> I made a ugly box charger that ran with the "bad boy with manners"
> control board via 4 solid state relays to vary the current level. I
> then added a pulse charging finish which did wonders to temporarily
> rejuvenate some very old Hawkers that I had been abusing. So many
> unisolated options! But I really want isolation.
>
> Tom Hudson suggested a open source charger, I assume he means
> isolated (if I read his intentions correctly). I'd be happy to
> contribute a little time to that project, especially if it fit's the
> specs I want (32A input, PFC, isolated, smart, inexpensive etc) If
> there is interest I'll set up a mailing list for it, or we could just
> do it on evtech.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
Otmar I still hope to get you a PFC20, for zilla trade, Ah, but they
keep on selling as fast as I can build them.
And NO! Joe Smalley DID NOT do the ugly box charger, Pat Sweeny did.
Joe did the Ammo Box chargers, with voltage and current controls. And
NO PFC. Geez that thing is heavy and massive. I saw it short out a 50Kw
Genset(it was dropped), and sag the Diesel while doing it. It left some
teeth marks on the heatsink, and the silicon lived to tell about it. It
still is serviceable.
Micros in chargers. I intend to integrate one into the controller PCB on
the PFC charger series, and have had a crowd of folks try, attempt and
succeed in various levels. None have presented me with a sellable
supportable design. So... I am still hoping the EV crowd will do a mass
design, that I can produce, and tack onto the PFC series chargers.
Ot and I would like all the Micro gear to beable to talk to each other,
Chargers, Controllers, BMS. This is a good idea, but we don't have the
glue yet, or the controlling designer. Just the will to keep our designs
flexable enough to allow it to happen.
Nice joke Otmar, 32 line amps, PFC, isolated, smart. Ok that can be
done, but not all and then the last "inexpensive". Yea... I wish. So
does the list.
Wanna make a 2000 amp Zilla for a 1221 cost??? NOT LIKELY.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many people on the list have mentioned the 'real cost'
of a cheap bad boy charger. You may have saved $1000
or
1500 but you just murdered a $1500 or more pack of
batteries.
Jim has STM-180 NiCd's in a 1984 Fiero.
I stressed over and over that he should baby sit
the batteries until he gets the TEVan charger going.
(I swapped a charger for a sailboat).
He left them on charge all night and woke up in the
morning with lower battery voltage and higher charge
current. He claims one of the batteries was 200F.
NiCd can take alot of abuse, but they really don't
like temps much above 140F.
Has anybody on the list got a SAFT NiCd this hot?
Did it live?
I've never pulled a stupid stunt like this so I have
no experience.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will the CNG come from America fuel reserves or is it another imported
energy?
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:19 AM
Subject: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> http://www.cngvc.org/ngv/cngvc.nsf/bytitle/order.htm To order the book.
> http://www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/bytitle/stationlaunch.htm station
> locator.
> CNG is less expenisve than gas or diesel.
> You can fill at home with a 1000 dollar compressor for 60 to 80 cents per
> gallon. Lawrence Rhodes......
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
>
>
> > Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a CNG vehicle?
I
> > know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck stops, but
where
> > do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you would want to
do
> > this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as well? thanks.
> >
> > brad
> >
> > At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > >However, I
> > > > can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they are
> interested, I
> > > > can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and sedans of
> all
> > > > sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc). Please let
> me
> > > know
> > > > if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles. Thank you
> Lawrence!
> >
> >
> > Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> > Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> > QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under construction.
Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking about something similar, but different.
Start off simple and build on it.
Initially just start with some brains to add to a dumb charger (Fair
Radio (AKA TWC+), ugly box, K&W, etc.)
The brains will monitor for end of charge, heat build-up, etc. and shut
the charger down. We could get a group buy together for the circuit
board or someone could offer a parts kit.
Mark's charge controller is a good start, but some folks follow
different charging schemes. For Example US battery recommends charging
until the batteries reach 7.75V per 6V battery and holding it there for
2-4 hours. For that reason I think a build in digital timer is
essential. Something that will starting timing when a certain condition
is met.
I like the coil & reed switch idea, I was thinking of using one of the
output leads from the charger as a shunt to measure charge current. Use
this to feed an adjustable op-amp or something.
I also like the 12 hour timer idea as a fail safe.
Finally you could add either a temperature switch or a thermistor to
measure pack voltage and shut down if it gets too high.
Anyway have the charger controller control a 120 or 240V outlet via a
relay and you use the charge controller to turn the main charger on/off.
Heck this could even be used to enhance a PFC-20/50
After we get that working we can see about adding an isolation
transformer and perhaps a phased controlled SCR charger setup (or
something else cheap).
For isolation transformers; those of you who live close to a military
installation might consider checking out the thrift store on base/post.
These frequently have 220 to 110V transformers cheap (GIs use them in
Europe). I use to have a 5kw transformer that I sold for $50 when I
came back from Germany (15 years ago).
A 5kw transformer would be a good first stage for a 240V charger.
P.S. what shall we call this? The Busy Box charger? FWIW similar ideas
have been floated in the past, check out "Shep the charger" and the Fair
Radio "Tap Dancing charger".
>
> 120 VAC input, maximum 1300-1500 watts power. (So it would not be likely
> to trip breakers.)
>
> Compact, perhaps about the size of a shoe box.
>
> Isolated, so you don't have to worry about GFCI trips or shocks.
>
> Automatic shutoff.
>
>
> How about this:
> A 120 VAC 1500watt transformer, perhaps from a microwave oven or something
> similar, with the secondary removed and replaced with a hand wound coil
> appropriate for the pack voltage.
> A current sensing shut down circuit as used by Mark Brueggemann on his
> FrakenLester charger (see http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evchgr/chgcntl.html )
> A simple 12 hour mechanical timer as used for attic fans as a secondary
> control method for equalizing.
> An appropriately sized bridge rectifier and heat sink.
> A small fan to cool the transformer and heat sink.
> A small circuit breaker on the AC input.
> A fuse or circuit breaker on the DC output.
> Perhaps a small ammeter to monitor the output current.
>
> With this low of power, it is only going to deliver a max of something like
> 10 amps on a 120 volt EV so it probably would not be a realistic charger
> for full time use, but that is not what it is for. At least with that low
> of output, thermal runaway should be just about impossible.
>
> I know, we are trying to get folks to realize that a good charger is
> essential for a good EV and that isn't where you want to skimp, but I think
> there is still a need for a charger like this. Some folks have
> sophisticated micro-processor controlled chargers but they only run on
> 220VAC or they pull too much current on 120VAC for most common
> outlets. Others are still using the large off-board chargers, and have to
> live without the ability to opportunity charge. I feel that no EV should
> depend on one charger. You should always have the option of a second
> one. Failures will occur and Murphy's Law says the charger will only fail
> when you have just heavily discharged the batteries. Any charger is better
> than a dead charger.
>
> So, is this idea worth investigating? Has anyone built something like this
> they wish to share?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cool looking car. Anybody know anything about these folks? I personally
find it a bit odd that, even though they have dozens of photo's of the
car, not one indicates that it's actually electric. No photos of the
motor, or battery, or instrument cluster. It doesn't even have a real
license plate on it.
On Sat, 2003-07-05 at 11:42, Brad Waddell wrote:
> Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under construction.
> Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
>
> http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
>
> brad
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
>
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have asked them about that - waiting for a response. There is a news
article linked from their news page that has more information about them
then the web page does at this point.
At 12:47 PM 07/05/2003 -0700, you wrote:
Cool looking car. Anybody know anything about these folks? I personally
find it a bit odd that, even though they have dozens of photo's of the
car, not one indicates that it's actually electric. No photos of the
motor, or battery, or instrument cluster. It doesn't even have a real
license plate on it.
On Sat, 2003-07-05 at 11:42, Brad Waddell wrote:
> Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under construction.
> Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
>
> http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV's are invited to display at the following events:
July 18-19; Brookline, MA; New England's Alternative Transportation
Festival
August 9-10; Sharon, CT; The Sharon Audubon Festival
September 21; Millbury, MA; Millbury Improvement Initiative's Auto Fest
2003
DETAILS BELOW for the first event, see
http://www.nesea.org/greencarclub/calendar.html
for the complete listings. And drop me a line ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) if you
plan to go... I'll probably be there the 18th.
=======================================================
New England's Alternative Transportation Festival: AltWheels
NESEA invites any interested member of the Green Car Club to join us for
New England's Alternative Transportation Festival at the Larz Andersen
Museum of Transportation in Brookline July 18 & 19th from 10 am to 4
pm. There will be a large lawn show with a full range of electric,
hybrid, fuel cell, CNG, ethanol, vegetable oil, propane and other types
of vehicles from a full range of manufacturers. Plus, NESEA director
Warren Leon will be speaking on July 18th!
All fuel efficient vehicles are being included. There will be prizes
awarded for best in class in a number of categories as well as
interesting talks exploring transportation and vehicle choices of the
future, explorations of what different towns are doing in terms of fleet
conversion, workshops on fuel conversion, art cars, Segway rides, and
much more. For information on the event please call Alison Sander at
617-868-1582 or to register your car please call or email Anissa
Sanborn, 413-774-6051 x30, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To register (free) with the Green Car Club, see http://greencarclub.org/
======================================================
Additional events listed at see
http://www.nesea.org/greencarclub/calendar.html
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:17 PM
Subject: Fw: Power of DC, an' Stuff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Power of DC, an' Stuff
>
>
> > Dear Bob,
> >
> > Thanks for the compliment. I was delighted and surprised by the warm
> > reception by everyone both EV and ICE folks in Maryland.
> > I don't know what kind of turnout they get at Woodburn, but I believe
the
> > number of participants this year at Mason-Dixon was greater than either
of
> > the past two years in Vegas. I'm sure we can expand this east
> coast-Midwest
> > group and have an even better turnout next year. I have 8 new purple
> Exides
> > on the way for my 48 volt bike. Perhaps I could do an informal test and
> try
> > to make it to David in Akron (44 miles according to Mapquest).
Concerning
> > west coast dragsters : Orange Juice is a long way from catching up to
> > Current Eliminator and Circuit Breaker. The times that Dennis is
running
> > with run of the mill batteries (mid nines) is astounding. He is years
> ahead
> > in experience and technology and is relentlessly pursuing even better
> > performance from the CE4. Contrary to press releases and claims, the
CE4
> is
> > the most technologically advanced and best engineered electric dragster
in
> > the world. His advise and support,( as well as that from Jim and Ken
from
> > Circuit Breaker) has been instrumental in allowing us to get into the
> tens.
> > That is not to say that we are going to settle with where we are.
Having
> > missed Circuit Breaker's 240 volt record by .25 seconds only served to
wet
> > our appetite to continue to improve this year. We are headed to the
track
> > this week 100 pounds lighter and in hot pursuit. We have not flirted
with
> > higher voltages but if all goes well this week, (no small feat given our
> > history), that is next on the list. I would be great to race against Bad
> > Amplitude. It would be sort of like Fred Flinstone vs George Jetson.
> Perhaps
> > Darin could get us together in Michigan, (about midway between us).
> >
> > Shawn Lawless
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 1:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Power of DC, an' Stuff
> >
> >
> > > Hi shawn;
> > >
> > > My personal thanks for you guys bringing Orange Juice to Power of
DC!
> I
> > > was the big guy in the Power of DC from LAST year T shirt, came over
and
> > > chatted a bit at Mason Dixon, while you were stuffing some amps back
in
> > with
> > > the Variac. It is SO nice to see some activity EAST of the Miss. River
> in
> > > electric drag racing. We're not letting it be a Left Coast thing. I
show
> > my
> > > Woodburn tapes to folks out here in CT , a wasteland of EV activity.
> They
> > > hardly believe it! Seeing Dennis Berube run away from Vipers and stuff
> > like
> > > that is heartwarming.
> > >
> > > Keep up the good work with the O J and you can walk, or drive
away,
> > > with Dennis's 1000 buk offer to anyone that beats him, IF he still has
> it
> > > up? Not that 1 k will go very far toward funding a dragster, but it
> helps.
> > > Nice to know there are some Fast Cars in OUR time zone, finally. I
don't
> > > think there are a dozen working EV's in CT? I have been running a 82
> > Rabbit
> > > with 120 volts worth of T 145's a T Rex controller, Bad Boy charging,
as
> > my
> > > Gofur car, work, store , bank, all the enchanting places I go in my
> life,
> > > over 60k in 4 years. An EV works for me, although I do have a stable
of
> > > other stuff. A Nissan Sentra to drive out to Woodburn for the Races
this
> > > year, in PDX, a Ford Beast of Burden van to carry more shit than I can
> get
> > > in a Rabbit, and tow vehicle to go further than I can drive,
> electrically,
> > > in one sitting, although I have eeeked out 101 miles on the Rabbit!
> > Opposite
> > > of a lithe dragster, it has the effect of an elephant on roller
skates.
> > Good
> > > name if I ever raced it<g>! It's fast enuf@ 75 on the hiway, though. I
> can
> > > pass gas rigs now an' again.
> > >
> > > I see a hotbed of EV activity forming in Ohio; David Roden is in
> > Akron,
> > > just down the road from you in Youngstown, Rod Hower is out there
> > somewhere
> > > as well as a few other guyz on the List, too.A EAA Chapter, maybe? It
> > could
> > > be alota fun, the Netgain guyz are up the road in Illinois? A Bad
> > Amplitude-
> > > Orange Juice Shootout!! Then,the winner can go Dennis Hunting! Be
nice
> if
> > > TV sports coverage would pick up on the Electric Racing scene.
> > >
> > > Don't imagine that you would be taking Orange Juice to Woodburn
this
> > > year? Or EVentually? Please keep us posted
> > >
> > > My OTHER hat on: Vice prez, New England EAA, chapter
> > >
> > > Seeya
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Shawn Lawless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:42 PM
> > > Subject: Power of DC
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:12 PM 7/3/03, you wrote:
I just picked up a bunch of NIB 13V DC Wall Warts. While pondering what to
do with `em I started thinking they might make a practical (cheap) approach
to modular charging.
I have over one hundred 2 amp, 15 volt, laptop chargers. If you
want to do modular charging, they are just about perfect for it. I'll sell
them for $8 each, plus shipping.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Jet Electrica with a fresh 120v T-125 pack, Curtis 1221C, and stock
Prestolite motor. I am currently on my 10th battery break-in cycle, and I
am curious about a phenomenon that I am experiencing with it:
At a certain point in each gear range (approximately midpoint) I feel a
definite "kick" in terms of power when under heavy load, as when climbing a
hill, most noticeably with full throttle. As I recall, the voltmeter shows
a definite rise from the sag, but the amps stay steady. Don't get me wrong,
I'm not complaining, it sure is nice to feel it "kick in" when climbing a
hill. It sure keeps the ICE folks behind me from getting cross. :)
I am just curious to understand what is going on. Is this kick a phenomenon
of the batteries, or is it coming from the controller? And how do I get
that kick across the whole range? :)
Regards,
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like it is coming from the controller.
Be Careful or you may get stuck in the middle of nowhere as batteries
don't have a kick, only a sag.
On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:25:34 -0700 "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have a Jet Electrica with a fresh 120v T-125 pack, Curtis 1221C,
> and stock
> Prestolite motor. I am currently on my 10th battery break-in cycle,
> and I
> am curious about a phenomenon that I am experiencing with it:
>
> At a certain point in each gear range (approximately midpoint) I
> feel a
> definite "kick" in terms of power when under heavy load, as when
> climbing a
> hill, most noticeably with full throttle. As I recall, the
> voltmeter shows
> a definite rise from the sag, but the amps stay steady. Don't get
> me wrong,
> I'm not complaining, it sure is nice to feel it "kick in" when
> climbing a
> hill. It sure keeps the ICE folks behind me from getting cross. :)
>
> I am just curious to understand what is going on. Is this kick a
> phenomenon
> of the batteries, or is it coming from the controller? And how do I
> get
> that kick across the whole range? :)
>
> Regards,
> -Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if they are prepared to meet federal requirements, crash test,
etc.? That has to be enormously expensive. Or perhaps the plan is to offer
it as a "kit car"?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:42 AM
Subject: New EV to go into production
Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under construction.
Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
> Isolated, so you don't have to worry about GFCI trips or shocks.
NO, no, no!
The National Electrical Code requires GFCI protected receptacles
wherever there is a possibly of water or ground contact. All bathrooms,
kitchens, garages, swimming pools, spas, and outdoor receptacles MUST be
GFCI protected.
An electric vehicle is parked on the ground outdoors, so charging must
be from a GFCI protected receptacle. Isolated charger or non isolated
charger, it doesn't matter.
GFCI charging is the rule.
Practice Safe and Sane Sharging, not Dead and Dumb.
Follow the rules.
Russ Kaufmann, Owner, dba
Russco Electro Mechanical Engineering Since 1976
Manufacturers of Anti Light Dimmer Fairly Smart EV Battery Chargers
Past Manufacturers of EV Controllers and Hydronic Heaters
EAA Santa Clara Rally 127 miles on one charge
EAA Fellow Award 1993
1800 watt grid tied photovoltaic system on site
(707)542-4151 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote:
The good news, is that eventually,
the charge juice goes to around .5 amp, so if you forget and leave
the car plugged
in for a day or two, it's no big deal and it only amounts to a very
nice low level
equalization charge!
Hey, I don't know about your Optimas, but the pack of cosmetic blems
you sold me over 4 years ago cannot be left for a "day or two" at 1/2
amp! They sit at around 15.6 volts, even 4 years later, when facing
1/2 amp.
My Optimas are certainly taking abuse from my charging (no regs, and
BAD charging). I'm almost ashamed to admit how I have forced them
back into line to take their 5th driving season - but they are doing
*excellent* now. I drove them 2 miles (about 10% of 100% DOD range
when fresh) and they read over 13 volts each!
I'm trying to kill my old Optimas <G>. They refuse to die! I like
their spunk, even now 400 amps is about 11 volts times 10 batteries
(even better if I do that right out of the garage).
Neon
--- End Message ---
