EV Digest 2903
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Smaller Optima YellowTop
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Curious about power "kick"
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Curious about power "kick"
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Electric Mobility Scooter-Cheap
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Isolated Bad Boy Charger Usage
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Diecy 6 Dragster Vegas Shootout predicted this fall
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Battricide - PHoenic Motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: My Bad-Boy charger
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Flying the flag
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: NiCd overtemp
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: My Bad-Boy charger
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Power of DC rules and controller mods.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Battery Box material
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Power of DC rules and controller mods.
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Power of DC rules and controller mods.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery Box material
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Battery Box material
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I was at an interstate dealer the other day and they had one of them on
the shelf. I almost got one for my ICE honda but I already have a
working battery for it...
-Jeremy
On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 12:01 AM, Thomas Shay wrote:
There is a smaller Yellow Top than the familiar model D34. It's model
D51.
You can read a bit about it at http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/
This battery might be just the ticket for somebody who wants a smaller
Optima. It weighs 26 lbs compared to 43 lbs for the D34.
I don't know how available this new battery is. Maybe somebody else on
this list knows and can tell us.
Tom Shay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are experiencing the true power band of your EV. Yes when you floor it
you are burning some excess amps. But with your low end slow ev you are
just putting the controller at risk. I blew mine going up a hill with 4 kids
in the car and stalled it. Nothing else will suffer. If you do this just
to get the amps down you will experience a very low amp draw when you reach
this sweet spot. If you get there just a little easier you will have
better range longer controller life and while crusing if you stay in this
sweet spot (where the amps drop)and don't shift up you will have quick
accelleration up to the next gear if needed. The point where the amps drop
is the most efficient rpm to run in each gear. I run 25 in first 45 in
second and 70 in third. Third is a problem because of wind drag. I usually
cruise the freeway in the slow lane at 45mph. My car weighs 3250 and I have
the same controller and 1200+ pounds of batteries. I take all hills in San
Francisco in first. On the two hills that are a little less steep and the
limit is 35 I shift and run at 35 in second. I have good power and I run in
mid 200 motor amps. If it climbs up to 300 amps I shift down and/or slow
down. You don't want to run in the high amps for long. Just long enough to
get to the sweet spot. Get in the sweet spot and stay there. Lawrence
Rhodes....
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Curious about power "kick"
> I would disagree with this...
> When I went from 6V to 8V, I did notice a "kick",
> mostly when I stomped on it, which I'm told, is bad
> for floodeds. I noticed it happening as the amps
> started dropping, and the voltage began rising,
> _after_ coming off a dead stop.
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Sounds like it is coming from the controller.
> > Be Careful or you may get stuck in the middle of
> > nowhere as batteries
> > don't have a kick, only a sag.
> >
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:25:34 -0700 "Dave Anderson"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > I have a Jet Electrica with a fresh 120v T-125
> > pack, Curtis 1221C,
> > > and stock
> > > Prestolite motor. I am currently on my 10th
> > battery break-in cycle,
> > > and I
> > > am curious about a phenomenon that I am
> > experiencing with it:
> > >
> > > At a certain point in each gear range
> > (approximately midpoint) I
> > > feel a
> > > definite "kick" in terms of power when under heavy
> > load, as when
> > > climbing a
> > > hill, most noticeably with full throttle. As I
> > recall, the
> > > voltmeter shows
> > > a definite rise from the sag, but the amps stay
> > steady. Don't get
> > > me wrong,
> > > I'm not complaining, it sure is nice to feel it
> > "kick in" when
> > > climbing a
> > > hill. It sure keeps the ICE folks behind me from
> > getting cross. :)
> > >
> > > I am just curious to understand what is going on.
> > Is this kick a
> > > phenomenon
> > > of the batteries, or is it coming from the
> > controller? And how do I
> > > get
> > > that kick across the whole range? :)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > -Dave
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno
> > SpeedBand!
> > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up
> > today!
> >
>
>
> =====
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> (in progress)! ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes the volts sag but as the amps go down while entering the sweet spot the
volts go up. Lawrence Rhodes....
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Curious about power "kick"
> Thanks Thomas, I think that explains it. I might have gotten the change
> r.e. volts vs amps turned around. The next time I go out, I'll watch the
> gauges more carefully. It would make sense that the current would go up
> rather than voltage, as batteries can only sag as someone else pointed
> out...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Curious about power "kick"
>
>
> The Curtis 1231C in my Ranger pickup would give a noticeable "kick"
> at full throttle when the controller came out of current limit mode.
> If I watched the motor current as the speed increased, the current which
> had stayed at 500 amps would drop to about 450, then jump back to
> 500 briefly and then resume its decline. I could feel a slight kick when
it
> jumped from 450 to 500.
>
> Tom Shay
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 3:25 PM
> Subject: Curious about power "kick"
>
>
> > I have a Jet Electrica with a fresh 120v T-125 pack, Curtis 1221C, and
> stock
> > Prestolite motor. I am currently on my 10th battery break-in cycle, and
I
> > am curious about a phenomenon that I am experiencing with it:
> >
> > At a certain point in each gear range (approximately midpoint) I feel a
> > definite "kick" in terms of power when under heavy load, as when
climbing
> a
> > hill, most noticeably with full throttle. As I recall, the voltmeter
> shows
> > a definite rise from the sag, but the amps stay steady. Don't get me
> wrong,
> > I'm not complaining, it sure is nice to feel it "kick in" when climbing
a
> > hill. It sure keeps the ICE folks behind me from getting cross. :)
> >
> > I am just curious to understand what is going on. Is this kick a
> phenomenon
> > of the batteries, or is it coming from the controller? And how do I get
> > that kick across the whole range? :)
> >
> > Regards,
> > -Dave
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not worrying. They used to burn off natural gas at the well head. There
is about 50 thousand years of natural gas at current usage under ground.
Even if they don't tap it a CNG vehicle can run hydrogen with no
modifications. Everything is a money stream. Everything said is just a way
to get you to believe something. I believe they want more money from us.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
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----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> Recent lecture at University of Hartford on energy conversion stated that
> the US gets 99 percent of its natural gas from existing natural gas well
> in the continental 48 US states, imports the other 1 % from Canada, has
> about
> 25 years left underground at current consumption rates, and there are
> four ports around the country that have the capability to import
> liquefied natural gas, but there is no super tanker fleet available now
> that could handle any major natural gas shortage in the US, liquefied
> natural gas is much more expensive than regular natural gas from a well
> and more dangerous to import.
> The California energy crisis was caused when there was not enough natural
> gas to run the electrical generating power plants and other states just
> continue to build more natural gas fired electrical generating plants.
> The News has reported that existing natural gas wells have decreased in
> pressure over years of use, it takes much longer ( 3 times longer or more
> ?) than before for these wells to replenish stored supplies and
> certainly can not adequately supply new demands of more power plants
> without shorting supply to some other requirement such as industry or
> homes (domestic hot water & heat). Companies that drill for natural gas
> say it does not pay for them to drill new wells at this time or can't get
> investment dollars to drill at this time.
> I don't know the real particulars on this situation, but it doesn't look
> good for the average consumer as far as natural gas prices and electric
> rates.
> Higher electric rates at a time when EV's might start really competing
> with ICE's. Is this just a coincidence ?
>
> Menlo Park III,
> Bill, Glastonbury, CT
>
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 01:01:22 -0700 "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> > As far as I know we are an overall exporter. We get some from Canada
> > and
> > sell to Mexico. It just doesn't pay to ship natural gas. Pipe.
> > That's the
> > way. Lawrence Rhodes......
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> > from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 10:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> >
> >
> > > Will the CNG come from America fuel reserves or is it another
> > imported
> > > energy?
> > >
> > > www.lasvegasev.com
> > > Richard Furniss
> > > Las Vegas, NV
> > > 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> > > 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> > > 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> > > Board Member, www.lveva.org
> > > Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:19 AM
> > > Subject: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> > >
> > >
> > > > http://www.cngvc.org/ngv/cngvc.nsf/bytitle/order.htm To order
> > the book.
> > > > http://www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/bytitle/stationlaunch.htm
> > station
> > > > locator.
> > > > CNG is less expenisve than gas or diesel.
> > > > You can fill at home with a 1000 dollar compressor for 60 to 80
> > cents
> > per
> > > > gallon. Lawrence Rhodes......
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> > > > from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 12:30 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Can someone please tell me how you obtain natural gas for a
> > CNG
> > vehicle?
> > > I
> > > > > know where you get propane - larger gas stations & truck
> > stops, but
> > > where
> > > > > do you get CNG? And I'm assuming here that the reason you
> > would want
> > to
> > > do
> > > > > this is for less emissions, but is there a cost benefit as
> > well?
> > thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > brad
> > > > >
> > > > > At 11:50 AM 07/04/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > > >However, I
> > > > > > > can get a hold of many natural gas vehicles and if they
> > are
> > > > interested, I
> > > > > > > can get as many as they want. They can be vans, truck and
> > sedans
> > of
> > > > all
> > > > > > > sorts (S10, Ram Van, Crown Vic, Club Wagon, Civic, etc).
> > Please
> > let
> > > > me
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > if they would be interested in natural gas vehicles.
> > Thank you
> > > > Lawrence!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax:
> > 602-532-7019
> > > > > Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> > > > > QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at
> > www.qodbc.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
Any charger is better
> than a dead charger.
>
> So, is this idea worth investigating? Has anyone built something like this
> they wish to share?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
This sounds like a plee for a PFC10 or 15. Small 120 or 240 , 10 to 15
amp draw, Same basic features plus Iso. And all for as cheap as
possible.
Umm How many units Does the list think we could sell???
I have many requests for bigger bader chargers, but few for smaller
cheaper.
I have toyed with this market segment, and never really had a demand for
it. It does have the ability of using cheaper more mass producable power
stages.
I am listening.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, mine can be broken down easily. The batteries (24 lbs each), the
seat and the handlebars with the control unit can be removed. What
remains is an awkwardly shaped lump weighing about 70 lbs with
few convenient hand holds. Getting it into the boot of a car without
scratching or denting it or the car could be a real challenge. Two able
bodied adults can easily lift it onto a pickup truck; I could do it alone
if
I had to. I want a ramp or a lift. I've read and been told that few people
break them down for loading and unloading, at least not more a few
times.
----- Original Message -----
From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Mobility Scooter-Cheap
> Hi Tom,
>
> I don't know what model you have but the 2 bec scooters I have both break
> down to fit in the car boot, so maybe yours will too without a ramp.
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> I was thinking about something similar, but different.
> Start off simple and build on it.
>
> > So, is this idea worth investigating? Has anyone built something like this
> > they wish to share?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
I have been looking into isolation transformers for the front end of the
PFC20 chargers. Simple 20-25 amps input and output.
I have been looking at AMVECO torroidal 60 HZ transformers. They are the
lightest 60 Hz former I have found. With fan cooling I think I can make
a 1800 watt unit do 2500 watts of service. Yes we get some losses, but I
think we all know that.
The only glitch is they have a pretty monsterous power on inrush when
they are powered up. The Engineer thought he could help me some without
using MOVs and Fets softstart circuits.
The point is, this would be the least path to market for a Iso PFC20,
and if you are all going to do a Iso with some manners, this is a great
place to start.
I need to get the development loops going, and see what kinda prototype
I can get handed me. Then I would have no problems selling back to the
Ev list at about cost plus 10. Or enough to cover shipping and handling.
You all can go on line to AMVECO.com to do your own engineering
research. The subtileties are same size wire input and output.
Comercial(not medical), and forced air cooled.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
russco wrote:
>
> Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> > Isolated, so you don't have to worry about GFCI trips or shocks.
>
> NO, no, no!
>
> The National Electrical Code requires GFCI protected receptacles
> wherever there is a possibly of water or ground contact. All bathrooms,
> kitchens, garages, swimming pools, spas, and outdoor receptacles MUST be
> GFCI protected.
>
> An electric vehicle is parked on the ground outdoors, so charging must
> be from a GFCI protected receptacle. Isolated charger or non isolated
> charger, it doesn't matter.
>
> GFCI charging is the rule.
>
> Practice Safe and Sane Sharging, not Dead and Dumb.
>
> Follow the rules.
>
> Russ Kaufmann, Owner, dba
> Russco Electro Mechanical Engineering Since 1976
> Manufacturers of Anti Light Dimmer Fairly Smart EV Battery Chargers
> Past Manufacturers of EV Controllers and Hydronic Heaters
> EAA Santa Clara Rally 127 miles on one charge
> EAA Fellow Award 1993
> 1800 watt grid tied photovoltaic system on site
> (707)542-4151 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I agree with this.
But most Evers neglect this point and live with the risks.
My documentation says us a GFI outlet. I don't since I have a 216 lbs
isoformer on the test bench. I have persanall charged non iso for years,
and have had very little problems.
But... I have to preach the safety, and let the risk takers do what they
will.
Rod, or Dave's point that UL won't even look at a charger unless it's
isolated, pretty well outlines where a OEM charger should start. Since
the REAL EV market right now is the wave of NEVs that are 72 volts and
lower, I see a real demand for iso, and very low voltages.
I am starting to do the home work for finding a small affordable 60Hz
transformer. HF isolation I fell would double the cost of the charger,
60Hz is heavy and cheap.
I need to find out my options.
Russ, so should you.
Combining a Iso former with a step up ratio will also allow you to have
a wider voltage range. That wider market segments for you.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know where it fits, but I happen to like the idea of a really smart
one battery charger - inexpensive (not cheap - you know the difference
*grin*), so that I can hook up a bank of them, one per battery or one per
buddy pair. Moving up or down in voltages as things change would just
require adding a few more or few less boxes. I've looked into the Soniels,
and like the idea. I'm still in the "gutting the rest of the ICE" stage of
my current project (a Porsche 924 - to become a mid-engine electric) so
haven't made a decision on charging. It WILL be a rolling science
project.... but with better wire management and good looks.
Maybe something like a larger box, with individual chargers on cards -
something like an industrial telephone switch? One set of cooling - a bit of
monitoring for failure of an individual segment, perhaps a little battery
regulation built in? Just add/remove cards as needed? Or a small box with
passive venting on top and bottom, that can be "ganged" with a stack of
similar ones, with a fan module at one or both ends for cooling the entire
stack.
Price? Well, I'd like it to cost one dollar.... what would I spend? I'd
spend what it is worth - and I'd have to balance it against using existing
small chargers. There has to be some savings using a series of little
chargers that are made to be used in a group (in casing and cooling issues).
Kevin - Snohomish, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
> Mike Chancey wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks,
> Any charger is better
> > than a dead charger.
> >
> > So, is this idea worth investigating? Has anyone built something like
this
> > they wish to share?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike Chancey,
> > '88 Civic EV
> > '95 Solectria Force
> > Kansas City, Missouri
> > EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> > My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> > Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> This sounds like a plee for a PFC10 or 15. Small 120 or 240 , 10 to 15
> amp draw, Same basic features plus Iso. And all for as cheap as
> possible.
> Umm How many units Does the list think we could sell???
> I have many requests for bigger bader chargers, but few for smaller
> cheaper.
> I have toyed with this market segment, and never really had a demand for
> it. It does have the ability of using cheaper more mass producable power
> stages.
>
> I am listening.
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
>
> As I see it, a good part of the extra cost of a isolated unit is
> getting rid of the extra 5% of heat that is lost in the isolation
> stage, 350 Watts in the case of a 7kw charger as I would like.
evcl.com
Yup!. that's why PFCs will have the iso in the fan air stream.
Also since we have that nice wide range, I won't be doing any magic with
the winding ratios. But this is a place to "stack the deck" on a single
market PFC flavor.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
>
> >I'm in for the network drivers.
> >
> >"Network drivers?"
> >
> >You know, to talk to the universal EV bus standard that doesn't exist. ;-)
>
> Go ahead Sheer, Make my day, write up a standard. :-)
>
> I'm dying to make some PCBs for battery monitoring so that people can
> start playing with them, (and I can stop killing my Optimas).
> I just found a nice way to cut up panelized boards using the mill.
> That makes the boards cheap in low quantities.
> Can you tell I'm procrastinating all the other work that I really
> should be doing? :-)
>
> Those of you waiting for controllers, worry not, the copper goes to
> the plating shop on monday.. Really, they're almost done...
>
> Have fun!
> --
> -Otmar-
> http://www.CafeElectric.com
> Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It must be Sunday, we are airing our production sins!!
PFC20 folks: I am in a 2 week hold on LEM current sensors. Geez not
another producton delay.
I do have the bits for the first(MINE!!) PFC30 attempt. Any guess what
melts first copper traces, input rectifier, or Capacitors!!!, The 80 amp
IGBTs should be loafing.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Sparks will fly with Shawn Lawless and Orange Juice in firm command and still
stepping up his program in the East,
other mid wester NASA funded Netgains Estimate
9sec.qt.mi. best enginered electric show dragster BAD what? ( time to get your
tires broke in)
Jim lu and Ken Koch and Circuit Breaker are
Making Noise you see there 240volt records gona go away at Vegas in the
fall(one way or another)
Bill Dube and Killa? Mega?cycle,the track is very tight in Vegas in the
fall you will stick your slick, you may have to defend your record.
Electric Louie and new boulder powered dragster,
Eric an Tracie Miller an there record breaker
JR.The challenger JR from Utaw
Dennis Kill A Watt Berube an current eliminator in what voltage class?
RICHARD FURNAS an company,,,,,,,,,
BRING IT ON
OUTLAW......................................Dennis Kill A Watt Berube
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Rod Hower wrote:
>
> http://66.218.37.153/
> Phoenix Motorcars claims they will use the Evercell
> NiZn battery in their roadsters.
> What are they using for battery equalization?
> Or do they plan on using something developed
> by John Lussamer, Fred Whitridge or Lee Hart?
> Has anybody contacted them about your work?
Not me. Let's hope they don't do what most first-time EV startups do:
Ignore all advice (not invented here syndrome), and only put in what
they think will make it sell (it only has to look good, not be good).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
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Hi Lawrence,
How much ( $'s and cubic feet) natural gas do you use a year ?
How much electricity is produced by a natural gas fired electric
generating plant that you use each year ?
Yes, they always want more money from us.
Unfortunately there isn't much anyone can do about it other than use
alternative energy as much as possible to replace fossil fuels.
Hydrogen still takes energy to separate from water whereas
Sunshine is available, free for using for now :-), for photovoltaic
panels to directly charge my EV's and water panels to produce domestic
hot water & help keep the house warm in winter.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:15:43 -0700 "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> I'm not worrying. They used to burn off natural gas at the well head.
> There
> is about 50 thousand years of natural gas at current usage under
> ground.
> Even if they don't tap it a CNG vehicle can run hydrogen with no
> modifications. Everything is a money stream. Everything said is
> just a way
> to get you to believe something. I believe they want more money
> from us.
> Lawrence Rhodes.......
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
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> I think I have about the smallest Bad-Boy charger out there. I have
> uploaded a picture of it to my web site, but this is the only place
> you will find a link to it. You can see my Bad-Boy at
> <http://home.comcast.net/~paul-g/bad_boy.jpg>.
>
I'd call that a bad boy with a report card ( the shunt) or tatil tailing bad
boy (tell all) .
>
> David Brandt e-mailed me today with a better name for the Bad-Boy
> plus Variac charger. I thought I would pass it along. How about
> calling it the VARI-BAD BOY?
How about a web site with pictures and scamitices of all these bad boys .
This would be for home built one of a kind's only :-) . Could even have a
section for Dead bad boys , I could come up with a few of these. If there is
interest I'll get Jon (self appointed EV salesman ) to do it on the
grassrootsev.com web site or sombody elses.
One I haven't seen yet is the one I call a double dealing bad boy . It
run's on 240ac and puts out 120 dc , ac in through bridge rectifier
(standard bad boy) then through isolation transformer pri ( third world
charger) . other end of isolation transformer gets bridge rectifier and is
hooked up in parallel with first bad boy's output giving twice the amps .
Seems like lee's crazy bad boy could be making some distilled water also
.Crazy Bad boy with wet pants or bad boy in hot water?
Steve Clunn
> Enjoy,
> Neon
>
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It's a busy time at the moment, lots of shows to take EV's to.
The Battery Vehicle Society had a stand at the Bromley Pagent of Motoring on
June 29th. We managed to get three vehicles there, my Scirocco, our
treasurer's Fiat 126, and Derick Manly's hedge trimming platform! This is a
rather wonderful contraption, which can be raised and lowered, whilst
remaining drivable at any height. There was full sun all day and I even got
a little sunburnt. All the vehicles drew a lot of attention, many admiring
the Scirocco, but those interested in perhaps converting a car found Neil's
Fiat less intimidating. I don't know how many people signed up on the day,
but we certainly got through a lot of brochures.
Gordon Foat of the Futureenergies website had been asked to find and EV to
display at Brighton and Hove City Council's 'Sunny Days' weekend. The
Saturday was for 'Green Vehicles' and three assembled on the seafront. There
was a group who had a number of converted Milk floats, which they were using
to provide an alternative refuse collection/recycling service. They were
talking about a class action on behalf of their members to claim back part
of their council tax, because they no longer used the council refuse
service. At the other end of the line was a Renault Megane, running on home
made biodiesel, they also had their processing equipment on display. My car
was in the middle and all three displays attracted attention from foot
trafic along Brighton seafront. This time I completely ran out of BVS
brochures, and made some useful contacts. The Green Party hold the balance
of power in the city council and I took one of the green councilers for a
ride in the Scirocco. They have a number of sustainable development projects
planned and may want to rent an EV for canvasing at the next elections. The
nice thing about this day, apart from spending it on Brighton seafront, was
that the council payed expenses to have the car there!
Assuming I get the car back in time (It's still on a trailer in Woking),
I'll be taking it to 'Classics on the Common' on Wednesday evening. This is
a free car show about 200 yards from where I work. Having started with a
handfull of cars a few years ago, there were over 1500 cars in attendance
last year despite very wet weather (a bus sank to its axles).
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
P.S. please note new email address, although the old one will be active for
some time.
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Russ Kaufmann wrote:
>> An electric vehicle is parked on the ground outdoors, so charging
>> must be from a GFCI protected receptacle. Isolated charger or non
>> isolated charger, it doesn't matter.
Legally, the standards are kind of a mess. The NEC says it doesn't
regulate any kind of vehicles; but then the auto companies added Article
625 which says on-the-road EVs *are* covered.
Any new bathroom, kitchen, or outdoor outlets are supposed to be GFCI
protected, no matter what you use them for. But existing outlets are
"grandfathered" forever, and never need to be changed.
As a practical matter, a GFCI should be used as a matter of common
sense. You don't want yourself or anyone else getting killed due to a
ground fault. Isolated chargers are less likely to have ground faults,
but the risk is still there.
Otmar Ebenhoech wrote:
> I think that once it's built, isolation on a 7kw charger should cost
> about $200 extra in parts.
Certainly, you can get isolation with a plain old 60 Hz isolation
transformer for this price. In fact, the "high tech" GM Magnecharger had
just such a transformer. They didn't trust the paddle to actually
provide isolation.
> The disadvantage I see with the isolation is that it gets harder to
> make a super wide output voltage range charger like the PFC series.
True, if you try to do the whole thing with one stage. Among the many
other problems, you wind up needing semiconductors that can handle the
highest voltage *and* the highest current. For example, (ignoring safety
factors) a 3kw output charger that has to work from 30-300vdc obviously
needs 300v diodes and transistors. At 300vdc, they need to handle
10amps. But at 30v output, they have to handle 100amps. Thus, you need
300v 100amp parts for a 3kw charger. A fixed-voltage charger could have
delivered 30kw with these parts.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
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Now that is a real tragedy. I hope he has enough spares to get by...
Seth
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> Many people on the list have mentioned the 'real cost'
> of a cheap bad boy charger. You may have saved $1000
> or
> 1500 but you just murdered a $1500 or more pack of
> batteries.
> Jim has STM-180 NiCd's in a 1984 Fiero.
> I stressed over and over that he should baby sit
> the batteries until he gets the TEVan charger going.
> (I swapped a charger for a sailboat).
> He left them on charge all night and woke up in the
> morning with lower battery voltage and higher charge
> current. He claims one of the batteries was 200F.
> NiCd can take alot of abuse, but they really don't
> like temps much above 140F.
>
> Has anybody on the list got a SAFT NiCd this hot?
> Did it live?
> I've never pulled a stupid stunt like this so I have
> no experience.
> Rod
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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That is a just a TWC and a Bad Boy in parallel.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: My Bad-Boy charger
> One I haven't seen yet is the one I call a double dealing bad boy . It
> run's on 240ac and puts out 120 dc , ac in through bridge rectifier
> (standard bad boy) then through isolation transformer pri ( third world
> charger) . other end of isolation transformer gets bridge rectifier and
is
> hooked up in parallel with first bad boy's output giving twice the amps .
> Seems like lee's crazy bad boy could be making some distilled water also
> .Crazy Bad boy with wet pants or bad boy in hot water?
> Steve Clunn
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Looking at the results, it looks like the Prizm came in within about a
second of the other two AC trucks. Not bad for my first time out and
with 50% SOC batteries :-) And against an EV1 type controller as well...
But I do have a question: I could change the programming in the Dolphin
or completely go nuts with one for more power. The battery pack can
deliver a lot more than 200 amps peak; the S10 version of the Dolphin
used a 60KW setpoint on the same Dolphin console.
What would be the results of fiddling with the controller a bit? Would I
still stay in class SP/A? Programming changes ok?
On the more esoteric side I could add a second "shunt" in the Dolphin
and basically lie to the computer. Boost the car up to 400amps to the
motor. Have to sit down and look at the heat output and the
size/capacity of the IGBTs. The thing is water cooled; it might survive
a quarter mile pulse.
But that would require a second Dolphin controller.
*thinking* :-)
Chris
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Hi all,
Now that my batteries have arrived, it's time for me to work out how to mount them all.
In the back I'm planning to put 60kg of batts sitting in a box - base measurement 80cm
x 30cm, height 25cm.
This will be bolted on to structural members of the car.
I will mount the remaining 60kg in the engine bay after the motor and gearbox are in,
so I know just how much space I've got to play with.
Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
Some options I was considering:
aluminium plate - how thick? how easy to work with?
marine grade MDF - non-conductive, though I don't think the wood look is really what
I'm after :-)
recycled plastic board - I'm not too sure that this will be strong enough, but it is
nice and non-conductive.
How should I hold the batteries down?
Some sort of strong, non-conductive something? (maybe this is the place for some
recycled plastic...)
Thanks in advance,
Mark
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I am fitting the new Rotron 260 CFM cooling fan to my FR charger and
pondering the best way to mount it. Fan is sitting right over a hole in the
top of the case, and the FR chargers have great ventilation louvers in the
sides and the entire bottom is perforated. Any thoughts as to wether I
should set it up to pull air up through the case, or blow air down over the
components? I tend to favor pulling air up. Might keep the interior less
dusty. Especially since dust is one of our specialties here in AZ.
What do y'all think? DC.
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Hi Chris,
Do you really think anyone would know if you made any programming
changes?
Alex Karahalios
On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 07:17 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
What would be the results of fiddling with the controller a bit? Would
I still stay in class SP/A? Programming changes ok?
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Do you really think anyone would know if you made any programming changes?
*I* would know. :-)
Also there is a technical issue with "drag racing" an electric without a
transmission. Basically it's a "take the batteries to peak, floor it,
and keep it floored". Not really much I can do to improve the time other
than improving my reaction time (currently 1.6 seconds IIRC; should get
that under a second).
Chris
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Hi Mark,
Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
Some options I was considering:
aluminium plate - how thick? how easy to work with?
can you weld aluminum or know someone who can? aluminum is nice and
light but not just anyone can weld it
marine grade MDF - non-conductive, though I don't think the wood look
is really what I'm after :-)
don't use wood!
recycled plastic board - I'm not too sure that this will be strong
enough, but it is nice and non-conductive.
I am by no means an expert when it comes to battery boxes, but I would
recommend some sort of frame, perhaps angle iron or aluminum or
something with either sheet metal or some nice plastic forming the
actual box.
my two cents worth,
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
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Blowing the air makes the fan cooler, so gives it a longer life. It also
means if you wan tto filter it, you know where the inlet is. If a
puller, then the inlet is the intended inlet plus every unintended one,
like holes, cracks, etc.
Seth
David Chapman wrote:
>
> I am fitting the new Rotron 260 CFM cooling fan to my FR charger and
> pondering the best way to mount it. Fan is sitting right over a hole in the
> top of the case, and the FR chargers have great ventilation louvers in the
> sides and the entire bottom is perforated. Any thoughts as to wether I
> should set it up to pull air up through the case, or blow air down over the
> components? I tend to favor pulling air up. Might keep the interior less
> dusty. Especially since dust is one of our specialties here in AZ.
> What do y'all think? DC.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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GRP can be a beautiful thin if you can work it. Strong and insulating.
Or a metal box lined with insulating (usually FRP) plastic, like PCB material.
Seth
Mark Fowler wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Now that my batteries have arrived, it's time for me to work out how to mount them
> all.
>
> In the back I'm planning to put 60kg of batts sitting in a box - base measurement
> 80cm x 30cm, height 25cm.
> This will be bolted on to structural members of the car.
>
> I will mount the remaining 60kg in the engine bay after the motor and gearbox are
> in, so I know just how much space I've got to play with.
>
> Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
> Some options I was considering:
> aluminium plate - how thick? how easy to work with?
> marine grade MDF - non-conductive, though I don't think the wood look is really what
> I'm after :-)
> recycled plastic board - I'm not too sure that this will be strong enough, but it is
> nice and non-conductive.
>
> How should I hold the batteries down?
> Some sort of strong, non-conductive something? (maybe this is the place for some
> recycled plastic...)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mark
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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