EV Digest 2904
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery Box material
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Diecy 6 Dragster Vegas Shootout predicted this fall
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Box material
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: My Bad-Boy charger
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Box material
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery Box material
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery Box material
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery Box material
by Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Battery Box material
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery Box material
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Diecy 6 Dragster Vegas Shootout predicted this fall
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: New EV to go into production
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Ground Fault question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Could use a little help on configuring my controller
by ItalysBadBoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Could use a little help on configuring my controller
by ItalysBadBoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery Box material
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) For real, or another battery salesman?
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Battery Box material
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: NiCd overtemp
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Battery Box material - a few more details
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: coming to vegas?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
31) Re: coming to vegas?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
I vote for "up". Hot air rises naturally. If you blow down, and you have a
partial failure of the fan (say a bearing starts to freeze up and slows the
fan down), you could end up with counteracting forces on the air resulting
in zero flow through the charger. With forced air draft up, you always have
at least the upward convection flow of the air. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 6:39 PM
Subject: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
> I am fitting the new Rotron 260 CFM cooling fan to my FR charger and
> pondering the best way to mount it. Fan is sitting right over a hole in
the
> top of the case, and the FR chargers have great ventilation louvers in the
> sides and the entire bottom is perforated. Any thoughts as to wether I
> should set it up to pull air up through the case, or blow air down over
the
> components? I tend to favor pulling air up. Might keep the interior less
> dusty. Especially since dust is one of our specialties here in AZ.
> What do y'all think? DC.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about wood? It's easy to fabricate, resistant to acid, gentle on
plastic battery cases, and cheap. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Box material
> Hi Mark,
>
> > Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
> > Some options I was considering:
> > aluminium plate - how thick? how easy to work with?
> can you weld aluminum or know someone who can? aluminum is nice and
> light but not just anyone can weld it
>
> > marine grade MDF - non-conductive, though I don't think the wood look
> > is really what I'm after :-)
> don't use wood!
>
> > recycled plastic board - I'm not too sure that this will be strong
> > enough, but it is nice and non-conductive.
>
> I am by no means an expert when it comes to battery boxes, but I would
> recommend some sort of frame, perhaps angle iron or aluminum or
> something with either sheet metal or some nice plastic forming the
> actual box.
>
> my two cents worth,
>
> Seth
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now that's the ticket Rich, my car sits for 15 hours before I go back to
work the next day, charge the batteries nice and slow, I have a 108v car
with a 144v controller and I have found room for more batteries but my
Lester charger is very inflexible.
There are all kinds, some people like to drive fast and charger fast and
then some of us drive slow and charge slow.
> This sounds like a plee for a PFC10 or 15. Small 120 or 240 , 10 to 15
> amp draw, Same basic features plus Iso. And all for as cheap as
> possible.
> Umm How many units Does the list think we could sell???
> I have many requests for bigger bader chargers, but few for smaller
> cheaper.
> I have toyed with this market segment, and never really had a demand for
> it. It does have the ability of using cheaper more mass producable power
> stages.
>
> I am listening.
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm still working with the track to get a date for the fall EVent but it
sounds like it shaping up to be FUN.
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Diecy 6 Dragster Vegas Shootout predicted this fall
> Sparks will fly with Shawn Lawless and Orange Juice in firm command and
still
> stepping up his program in the East,
>
> other mid wester NASA funded Netgains Estimate
> 9sec.qt.mi. best enginered electric show dragster BAD what? ( time to
get your
> tires broke in)
> Jim lu and Ken Koch and Circuit Breaker
are
> Making Noise you see there 240volt records gona go away at Vegas in the
> fall(one way or another)
> Bill Dube and Killa? Mega?cycle,the track is very tight in Vegas in the
> fall you will stick your slick, you may have to defend your record.
>
> Electric Louie and new boulder powered dragster,
> Eric an Tracie Miller an there record breaker
> JR.The challenger JR from Utaw
> Dennis Kill A Watt Berube an current eliminator in what voltage
class?
> RICHARD FURNAS an company,,,,,,,,,
> BRING IT ON
> OUTLAW......................................Dennis Kill A Watt Berube
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about structural fiberglass sheeting and angles bolted together and
either also glue or use a silicon sealer.
It is non conducting, impervious to sulfuric acid, insulating, stronger
than steel in some directions, and relatively easy to work with. I
drilled holes and bolted together sheeting and angles made by Morrison
Molded Fiberglass, now called
Strongwell. Only drawback is that it is relatively expensive.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:03:02 -0500 "Mark Thomasson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> What about wood? It's easy to fabricate, resistant to acid, gentle
> on
> plastic battery cases, and cheap. Mark T.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 9:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery Box material
>
>
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > > Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
> > > Some options I was considering:
> > > aluminium plate - how thick? how easy to work with?
> > can you weld aluminum or know someone who can? aluminum is nice
> and
> > light but not just anyone can weld it
> >
> > > marine grade MDF - non-conductive, though I don't think the wood
> look
> > > is really what I'm after :-)
> > don't use wood!
> >
> > > recycled plastic board - I'm not too sure that this will be
> strong
> > > enough, but it is nice and non-conductive.
> >
> > I am by no means an expert when it comes to battery boxes, but I
> would
> > recommend some sort of frame, perhaps angle iron or aluminum or
> > something with either sheet metal or some nice plastic forming the
> > actual box.
> >
> > my two cents worth,
> >
> > Seth
> >
> >
> > --
> > QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> > http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So with all the talk of bad boy chargers... are there tricks with
capacitors or inductors to *increase* the current? I have a 132 volt
pack and was playing with a big rectifier as a potential quick charge
for special use on road trips, but it very quickly drops to <15 amps,
slower than the smart charger.
Joe Smalley wrote:
> That is a just a TWC and a Bad Boy in parallel.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > One I haven't seen yet is the one I call a double dealing bad boy .
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like pusher fans.
- It is easy to fit a filter to them
- The cooler air makes them run longer
- It is easier to control the incoming air with baffles.
Putting the fan on the top is not a good idea since that is the normal exit.
Normally the pusher fan is on the front, back, bottom or side.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 4:39 PM
Subject: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
> I am fitting the new Rotron 260 CFM cooling fan to my FR charger and
> pondering the best way to mount it. Fan is sitting right over a hole in
the
> top of the case, and the FR chargers have great ventilation louvers in the
> sides and the entire bottom is perforated. Any thoughts as to wether I
> should set it up to pull air up through the case, or blow air down over
the
> components? I tend to favor pulling air up. Might keep the interior less
> dusty. Especially since dust is one of our specialties here in AZ.
> What do y'all think? DC.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Chapman wrote:
>
> I am fitting the new Rotron 260 CFM cooling fan to my FR charger and
> pondering the best way to mount it. Fan is sitting right over a hole in the
> top of the case, and the FR chargers have great ventilation louvers in the
> sides and the entire bottom is perforated. Any thoughts as to wether I
> should set it up to pull air up through the case, or blow air down over the
> components? I tend to favor pulling air up. Might keep the interior less
> dusty. Especially since dust is one of our specialties here in AZ.
> What do y'all think? DC.
Basic fan design always has a single fan push, not pull. The airfoils
are designed for this and the published curves are for Sealevel inlet
air and so many inches of water back pressure.
Push Pull designs are special, and not really well thought out. Some are
of course. Most are not.
Push cool from the bottom of the ferro, and then thermal regulate the
fan or the load on the charger.
The taller the box the better.
The best install for a Manzanita PFC charger is Fans down, controls and
cables up. Most folks mount them flat, and the fans always have some
level of idle even when not making amps.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would consider building the frames out of Aluminum angle and lining the
box with FRP board available from Home Depot or other home center stores.
FRP is the whitish board used to make back splashes and shower enclosures.
Don't mistake this for tile board which is masonite with a water resistant
coating on one side. You could glue the FRP to the frame with Liquid Nails
construction adhesive which would add strength and caulk the seams with
silicone out of a caulking tube. Paint the outside of the boxes with that
new Bondo truck bed liner. I think I would cut some drain holes in the
bottom of the boxes so they could be rinsed out. DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's a pretty small battery pack, is this a golf cart?
Sheet metal should work, or that plastic they make barrels out of.
On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 16:34, Mark Fowler wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Now that my batteries have arrived, it's time for me to work out how to mount them
> all.
>
> In the back I'm planning to put 60kg of batts sitting in a box - base measurement
> 80cm x 30cm, height 25cm.
> This will be bolted on to structural members of the car.
>
> I will mount the remaining 60kg in the engine bay after the motor and gearbox are
> in, so I know just how much space I've got to play with.
>
> Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
> Some options I was considering:
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I figure that heat is rising anyway so I set mine up to blow air out the
top (suck it in through the louvers)
Besides I figure if anything happens to fall into the fan when it's
running, it's more likely to get thrown away from the charger instead of
into it. (I have a blade protector, but it has LARGE openings in it).
On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 16:39, David Chapman wrote:
> I am fitting the new Rotron 260 CFM cooling fan to my FR charger and
> pondering the best way to mount it. Fan is sitting right over a hole in the
> top of the case, and the FR chargers have great ventilation louvers in the
> sides and the entire bottom is perforated. Any thoughts as to wether I
> should set it up to pull air up through the case, or blow air down over the
> components? I tend to favor pulling air up. Might keep the interior less
> dusty. Especially since dust is one of our specialties here in AZ.
> What do y'all think? DC.
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The problem is that he is mounting it in a Fair Radio charger. The only
readily accessible place to mount a fan is on top, in fact you can even
mount it inside the top.
The fan is supplemental to the original design so even a sub-optimal
solution is better than the existing one (purely convection air flow)
The charger is designed for the air to flow up, so that's why I think
you should maintain this air flow. Blowing down from the top might
leave stagnant air under the transformer.
Dust build-up might be a problem since it's difficult to filter the air
with this design, however I don't use any filters AND I live in AZ and I
haven't noticed any significant dust build-up inside the charger (yet).
On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 20:44, Rich Rudman wrote:
> David Chapman wrote:
> >
> > I am fitting the new Rotron 260 CFM cooling fan to my FR charger and
> > pondering the best way to mount it. Fan is sitting right over a hole in the
> > top of the case, and the FR chargers have great ventilation louvers in the
> > sides and the entire bottom is perforated. Any thoughts as to wether I
> > should set it up to pull air up through the case, or blow air down over the
> > components? I tend to favor pulling air up. Might keep the interior less
> > dusty. Especially since dust is one of our specialties here in AZ.
> > What do y'all think? DC.
>
> Basic fan design always has a single fan push, not pull. The airfoils
> are designed for this and the published curves are for Sealevel inlet
> air and so many inches of water back pressure.
>
> Push Pull designs are special, and not really well thought out. Some are
> of course. Most are not.
>
> Push cool from the bottom of the ferro, and then thermal regulate the
> fan or the load on the charger.
>
> The taller the box the better.
>
> The best install for a Manzanita PFC charger is Fans down, controls and
> cables up. Most folks mount them flat, and the fans always have some
> level of idle even when not making amps.
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On further thought, that's only about 4 ea 6V batteries, is this a
go-cart?
> That's a pretty small battery pack, is this a golf cart?
>
> Sheet metal should work, or that plastic they make barrels out of.
>
> On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 16:34, Mark Fowler wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Now that my batteries have arrived, it's time for me to work out how to mount them
> > all.
> >
> > In the back I'm planning to put 60kg of batts sitting in a box - base measurement
> > 80cm x 30cm, height 25cm.
> > This will be bolted on to structural members of the car.
> >
> > I will mount the remaining 60kg in the engine bay after the motor and gearbox are
> > in, so I know just how much space I've got to play with.
> >
> > Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
> > Some options I was considering:
>
>
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> True, if you try to do the whole thing with one stage. Among the many
> other problems, you wind up needing semiconductors that can handle the
> highest voltage *and* the highest current. For example, (ignoring safety
> factors) a 3kw output charger that has to work from 30-300vdc obviously
> needs 300v diodes and transistors. At 300vdc, they need to handle
> 10amps. But at 30v output, they have to handle 100amps. Thus, you need
> 300v 100amp parts for a 3kw charger. A fixed-voltage charger could have
> delivered 30kw with these parts.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
Boy this is True!!!
having 600 volt 200 amp IGBT modules Barfing out 75 + amps of 48 volts
is NOT getting Kw out of the parts!!
Then having 200 amp parts making 30 amps of 450 is Kinda overkill in the
amps.
But you need both to cover the entire EV spectrum.
This is a cost that we have to endure, and it makes for just about a
universal power stage charger.
Give me a 100 piece order for any hard voltage spec, and I can take a
LOT of hardware out of the equasion.
It turns out that the cost of the monster silicon is not that
significant to the total cost of the product.
It's clear that a PFC20 80 amp IGBT stage could easly make 10Kw ,IF it
didn't have to make less than 300 output volts. The efficientcy at
240VAC input to 400 VDC out is to Kill for!!! I don't think I have a
over 400 volt customer in all the 75 units out there. Some are 336 and
360 with peak charge voltages over 400. Even the 525 order got pushed
back to 380 once they found out that the rest of the Controllers and
DC/DC couldn't handle it.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't recommend metal. I've got a steel (?) battery box in my Jet 007
and one day I had the charger sitting on top of it. When I closed the front
door, the lid must have bounced down and hit the batteries because I had a
flury of sparks and a small fire that burned the casing on one of my cables.
(The metal contained the fire, at least, and it died pretty quickly.)
In his book, Convert It, Michael Brown recommends painted plywood in a metal
frame, but I would be afraid that if there were a fire it would have a lot
more fuel to work off of. Maybe wood lined with a thin, non-conductive
plastic?
I'm planning on redoing my box soon. I just wish I knew what to use
myself... :)
Aubrey
>> Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
>> Some options I was considering:
>> aluminium plate - how thick? how easy to work with?
>> marine grade MDF - non-conductive, though I don't think the wood look is
>> really what I'm after :-)
>> recycled plastic board - I'm not too sure that this will be strong enough,
>> but it is nice and non-conductive.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make a frame out of aluminum angle and line it with 1/8th Lexan.
Strong, wont burn, wont conduct, and can be bent and worked similar to
sheet metal.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Aubrey Wilder
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 10:07 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: Battery Box material
I wouldn't recommend metal. I've got a steel (?) battery box in my Jet
007
and one day I had the charger sitting on top of it. When I closed the
front
door, the lid must have bounced down and hit the batteries because I had
a
flury of sparks and a small fire that burned the casing on one of my
cables.
(The metal contained the fire, at least, and it died pretty quickly.)
In his book, Convert It, Michael Brown recommends painted plywood in a
metal
frame, but I would be afraid that if there were a fire it would have a
lot
more fuel to work off of. Maybe wood lined with a thin, non-conductive
plastic?
I'm planning on redoing my box soon. I just wish I knew what to use
myself... :)
Aubrey
>> Anyway, what sort of material should I use?
>> Some options I was considering:
>> aluminium plate - how thick? how easy to work with?
>> marine grade MDF - non-conductive, though I don't think the wood look
is
>> really what I'm after :-)
>> recycled plastic board - I'm not too sure that this will be strong
enough,
>> but it is nice and non-conductive.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The original question neglects whether the box is for
structure, or vapor containment.
If the structural member for the batteries is angle
iron, then a 3/16" polypropylene box is great for
insulating and to enclose H2 gas so that it doesn't
come in contact with the main contactor or other
source of spark. This also has the advantage of not
corroding from acid vapors, and it's non-conductive
If the structural member for the batteries _is_ the
box of which you speak, then IMHO you must use
something stronger such as the metal or wood.
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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--- Begin Message ---
I have my new pack installed in my Tropica and I've modified
my charger to remove the connection between AC neutral and
chassis. Everything works fine until my charger enters finish
mode and then it trips the GFI. The charger is a buck
convertor and the only thing different between bulk and
finish is current. I close a relay which changes the current
scaling resistors. Actually it just shorts across one. This
worked before I removed the neutral to ground connection. I
measured the voltage across a 15k resistor placed betwen the
pack and chassis and got only 18mv. I checked for shorts
between the relay control and chassis and found nothing.
When I'm in finish mode, the FET control pulse width is much
narrower to produce the lower current. I would think this
would produce different harmonics. Can I have a connection
between the pack and chassis that would appear as a capacitor?
It's affect would change with frequency wouldn't it? Any ideas?
thanks,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
I have 8 off/on switches on my controller. I can
figure out most of the but could use some help on
some parameters. First is ACCEL DELAY , the
options are 2.5S, 1.5S, 1.0S and 0.5S . I assume
this is for acceleration delay. Who could want a
2.5 second delay? Maybe I'm off on this one.
Next is BRAKING. This has regen braking. options
are 25% (SOFT) , 50% , 75% and 100 % (HARD) . I
assume this is the how fast the regen kicks in.
100 % I would assume comes in hard and fast. Any
suggestions on how to set this up? I live in an
area that is pretty flat.
The last setup is NEUTRAL BRAKING. Options are 0%
Freewheel, 20%, 40%, 60%.
I guess if its set to 0% then all bets are off to
the braking setup in the previous paragraph,
correct? I am not sure about what happens in the
other options.
A little about what I have and what I want to do.
I have 3 batteries in series that has 50 ah each.
The motor is a 750 watt GE motor. I am not
interested in obtaining optimum range. I am
interested in getting top speed. I dont want to
dump the regen option though.
If you have some link to send me to to read up on
this, that would be great to. Thanks in advance
for any and all responses.
Allan
=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for
Nature cannot be fooled." --- Richard P. Feynman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remember the following first rule of disinformation analysis: truth is specific, lie
is vague. Always look for palpable details in reporting and if the picture is not in
focus, there must be reasons for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Aaron,
Hows everything going? I havent seen you post
anything in the power-assist group for the last
few day. I hope all is well.
I am configuring my controller and was hoping you
give me some help.
I have 8 off/on switches on my controller. I can
figure out most of the but could use some help on
some parameters. First is ACCEL DELAY , the
options are 2.5S, 1.5S, 1.0S and 0.5S . I assume
this is for acceleration delay. Who could want a
2.5 second delay? Maybe I'm off on this one.
Next is BRAKING. This has regen braking. options
are 25% (SOFT) , 50% , 75% and 100 % (HARD) . I
assume this is the how fast the regen kicks in.
100 % I would assume comes in hard and fast. Any
suggestions on how to set this up? I live in an
area that is pretty flat.
The last setup is NEUTRAL BRAKING. Options are 0%
Freewheel, 20%, 40%, 60%.
I guess if its set to 0% then all bets are off to
the braking setup in the previous paragraph,
correct? I am not sure about what happens in the
other options.
A little about what I have and what I want to do.
I have 3 batteries in series that has 50 ah each.
The motor is a 750 watt GE motor. I am not
interested in obtaining optimum range. I am
interested in getting top speed. I dont want to
dump the regen option though.
If you have some link to send me to to read up on
this, that would be great to. The document you
sent to me was some help but it didnt explain to
me very well the options.
Thank you, Allan
=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for
Nature cannot be fooled." --- Richard P. Feynman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remember the following first rule of disinformation analysis: truth is specific, lie
is vague. Always look for palpable details in reporting and if the picture is not in
focus, there must be reasons for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the sake of retaining batteries in a collision, and overall vehicle
strength, I prefer #16 sheet steel. It should be welded into the floorpan
if in the rear. Bolt down with brackets under the hood.
No matter what the material, I definitely don't trust battery boxes sitting
on top of the floorpan, even if bolted to the seatbelt anchors.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I visited Mike Chancey's EV Album for the latest entries and found this:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/450.html -- under batteries, "Three 12 volt,
AGM with Custom Sodium/sulfur Mixed", and controller, "Modified PMC 36
volts, 1600 amps". First, what kind of batteries are these, second, how do
you modify a Curtis for 1600A, and third, why not a normal controller and a
really big bypass contactor?
He also mentions 0-70mph in 6sec and top speed >80 - someone in NEDRA might
want to invite him to a race, although his scooter probably wouldn't pass
tech. He *does* know Rudman's trick of braking the non-driven wheel (adding
a foot on the ground) to get a lot of smoke off the tires!
Maybe I've seen too much about Tilley and that $91K EV on eBay to believe
anyone anymore!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Cooling fans, Push or Pull?
> The problem is that he is mounting it in a Fair Radio charger. The only
> readily accessible place to mount a fan is on top, in fact you can even
> mount it inside the top.
Exactly Peter, tho on this one the xfmr brackets are within 1" of the top
and my fan is like 3" thick.
> The fan is supplemental to the original design so even a sub-optimal
> solution is better than the existing one (purely convection air flow)
>
> The charger is designed for the air to flow up, so that's why I think
> you should maintain this air flow. Blowing down from the top might
> leave stagnant air under the transformer.
+ with the size of the fan I am mounting, I am hoping that it will just keep
the dust in suspension and blow it out the top. I guess great minds do think
alike. After giving Joe and Rich's excellent advice carefull consideration I
decided to do it our way afterall for all the above reasons. If I was
building a charger from scratch, then I would about face. DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I told him off-list, Mike must have been reading my mind. I've been
e-mailing questions to Lee off-line about assembly details of the charger
I'm putting together. I've called it a brute-force charger because of its
size, but it fits the description of what I told Paul G should technically
be called a vari-bad boy.
I can't take credit for that term, by the way. I believe John Wayland first
used it, a couple of years ago.
Anyway, I stumbled on a deal on ebay for a 20A, 240V in, 0-280V out variac a
while back, and started this project with the goal of assembling the most
powerful charger I could with the most features and the least expense. I've
got almost all the components now, and will assemble them soon.
This charger consists of the variac mentioned above, an input circuit
breaker, appropriately sized input and output cords, meters for AC voltage
and current and DC output voltage and current, and a bridge rectifier. This
will attach to a NEMA 6-50 outlet in my garage. Total cost for all
components is less than $300. The only questionable component is the
surplus rectifier I got, but it will at least let me experiment before
settling on a final component.
This is obviously an offboard charger only, as the variac alone weighs
around 60 lb. So it doesn't meet Mike's description in that respect.
When I get done, I'll post the parts list and costs if anyone is interested.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Chancey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:29 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Homebuilt Simple Fairly Dumb Charger
Hi folks,
It must be the charger time of the year. I have been thinking about
chargers a bit and was wondering about a simple charger almost anyone could
build...
IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Small car and Li-ions.
See http://home.iprimus.com.au/fowler/ecar_stuff.html for some horribly outdated info
:-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 7 July 2003 2:35 PM
To: EV
Subject: Re: Battery Box material
That's a pretty small battery pack, is this a golf cart?
Sheet metal should work, or that plastic they make barrels out of.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electronics goldmine had a flyer recently with temperature sensors for use
in nicad batteries to interrupt charging current if they get too hot. Don't
know what the specs are. You could call and ask. If the temp. setpoints
are good, these are certainly an inexpensive way to add protection to an
expensive set of batteries by having them trip an AC relay to cut off the
charger.
P/N L1291, "Tiny Thermal Switch" 10 for $1.00.
www.goldmine-elec.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Hower [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: NiCd overtemp
Many people on the list have mentioned the 'real cost'
of a cheap bad boy charger. You may have saved $1000
or
1500 but you just murdered a $1500 or more pack of
batteries.
Jim has STM-180 NiCd's in a 1984 Fiero.
I stressed over and over that he should baby sit
the batteries until he gets the TEVan charger going.
(I swapped a charger for a sailboat).
He left them on charge all night and woke up in the
morning with lower battery voltage and higher charge
current. He claims one of the batteries was 200F.
NiCd can take alot of abuse, but they really don't
like temps much above 140F.
IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the suggestions and ideas so far :-)
Sorry, I should have been more specific.
The box is for structure.
The batts are sealed Li-ions, and shouldn't dribble, spit or fart during normal use (I
hope...)
The "box" could be as little as a frame made from angle iron/aluminium though I think
I would prefer to have at least the base and sides enclosed since it will be open to
the road and I'd like to protect the batts from rocks and other debris.
My current thoughts are for a decent sized aluminium plate as the base, angle
aluminium for the structure, and perhaps plastic for the sides.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 7 July 2003 3:44 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery Box material
The original question neglects whether the box is for
structure, or vapor containment.
If the structural member for the batteries is angle
iron, then a 3/16" polypropylene box is great for
insulating and to enclose H2 gas so that it doesn't
come in contact with the main contactor or other
source of spark. This also has the advantage of not
corroding from acid vapors, and it's non-conductive
If the structural member for the batteries _is_ the
box of which you speak, then IMHO you must use
something stronger such as the metal or wood.
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Keep pushing netgains button,I can see a 3 or 4 way match in vegas this
fall,oh so fun. Hows it running? Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry List not inteded for everyones eyes Dennis
--- End Message ---
