EV Digest 2914
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) # of Seths
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: New EV to go into production
by "Keith Vogt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: New EV to go into production
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Public design charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: ZEV progress photos
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Auto Transporters
by "Ed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: ZEV progress photos
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: New EV to go into production
by Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) OT Re: patents...
by Andrew King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Cheap DC to DC converter.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: New EV to go into production
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: # of Seths
by "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) BMS (was: Making PCBs)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: plated bus bars?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow (Warning)
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: A/C in a Henney?
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: NEDRA Power of DC T-shirts available
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Battery Box material - a few more details
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Life with a Jet Electrica EV report - getting OT
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: New EV to go into production
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I know there are two in New England. I (Seth Allen) work in Mass. Seth
Murray goes to school in Mass. I think there is an other one on the list
that posts too.
Seth Allen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <snip>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius Japanese version and the
German version it has an EV button that will use electric power as long as possible,
which will probably be ~5 miles. This is separate from the "start" button.
Prior to 2004, there is no EV button, but EV mode can be accomplished by driving in
reverse. ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jorg Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
What is this EV button you speak of? If you're referring to the "Start"
button, I can assure you the first time you press it, the gas engine
comes to life. There is no way I know of, on the current Prius, of
which I own one, to force the gas engine to be off, other than running
out of gas. I have never seen any indication that the new Prius is
different in this regard.
Also the NiMH battery in the Prius won't take you more than 5 or 6 miles
by itself. I know this from first-hand experience.
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Keith Vogt
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 8:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
The '04 Toyota Prius has an EV button, will be in production within 90
days and its $20,000. So, the "big automakers" now produce an EV that is
actually affordable.
www.toyota.com/newprius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:32 AM 7/11/2003 -0600, Keith Vogt stated:
According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius Japanese version
and the German version it has an EV button that will use electric power as
long as possible, which will probably be ~5 miles. This is separate from
the "start" button.
This doesn't really help if you can't plug it in to restart it.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
>
> On 9 Jul 2003 at 8:34, russco wrote:
>
> > In five years of charger production there have been ZERO request for an
> > isolation transformer.
>
> But have you explained to your customers what the option's benefits are? Do
> they even know it's available?
>
> Remember, GM said there was "zero demand" for the EV-1, too. In a
> capitalist economy, you don't create demand without advertising.
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I got quotes for a torrodial transfomer today, $250 and change, this is
the smallest 60Hz iso former that can make 2500 watt from 120.
The costs are now known.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I will stick with my 1 simple 119.7lb series motor with a couple mods for
> vegas.Sounds like I will be the underdog there! CEs still in the paint
> shop,motor still apart..but I promise to be on the line in VEGAS. Dennis
> Kill A Watt Berube
Just so you listers know that 119.7 lbs Motor??? Started life over 200
lbs, maybe closer to 250. THAT's how much lightening Dennis has done.
A 9 inch AVdc weighs 147 lbs, he has taken a motor and cutout just about
half it's wieght out, and He gets well over 2x the name plate Hp out of
it.
THAT's the kinda of gains that we racers should be looking for in Old
dumb Brushed Crappy motors.
Now it a Bike I know about did this kinda work, 150 mph would be
history. Ok....at least on the ground that is.
It looks like the dragster crowd is now getting the idea. There is no
reason us street racers can't do the same thing.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took the pump apart and found that the butterfly valves were carboned up,
so the pump was leaking on each stroke. That's why it was running so much.
I disasembled everthing and soaked the parts (except the diaphram of course)
in chem dip. Reassembled with a dash of grease on the motor bearings, and
it just humms now. The clean valves make it much quieter, and the pump
cycle time is like 1/5 of what it used to be. I also made a tray lined with
foam to hold the pump, and now the traction motor fan is almost louder than
the pump.
Guess I will attack the motor fan next in my quest for a stealth EV!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
I use a CL-60 by Keystone in series with the Gast vacuum pump. I barely hear
it now compared to before. An NTC that drops from 10 ohms to .18, max run
current 5amps. Keystone-Thermometrics has different flavors of inrush
current limiters based on requirements. The pump is also mounted on rubber
poochies on the frame.
(I like this Jeep better than the previous marshmellow car-pod for mounting
stuff and sinking batteries below the floor).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:04 PM
Subject: Noisy Vacuum Pump
> My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect
of
> driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
> quieter. Any recommendations?
>
> The one I have now looks just like this one:
> http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
>
> -Dave
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:20 PM -0400 7/11/03, Seth Allen wrote:
A note-
POR-15, while wonderful stuff, like most all urethane paints, has
isocyanates or other cyanide related compounds in it. It attacks the
central nervous system, so make sure you have PLENTY of ventilation. I
had a run in with a urethane paint and I wound up with Parkinson's like
twitching from it. Thankfully that stopped, and I learned my lesson.
Now you tell me! :-)
I just conformal coated (with urethane conformal coat) a large batch
of Zilla boards. I did set up a fan, but I guess next time I'll put
on that fancy mask with filters that I can't smell acetone through.
Twitching? I'd rather not.
Thanks for the warning. We have so many warnings in this life that
it's hard to decide which ones to follow.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
Just wondered what company out of Sacramento you contacted for
transporting an EV. Looking for some service to transport my Sparrow
back from Oregon.
BR,
Ed Thorpe
408-965-1137
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > I used shipauto
> >
> > http://www.shipauto.com
> >
> > The shipped a non running ev from CA to NC in 5 days for about
$900.
> >
> >
>
> For comparison, a company out of Sacramento charged me $325 for non-
running
> transport from Long Beach to Vacaville.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The fancy mask that filters out hydrocarbons doesn't do a thing for the
isocyanates. THat's how I wound up twitchy. It can help against the
hydrocarbons, but the auto parts store should have a mask that is good
against both. Put it in a zip-lok baggie when you are thru to keep it
fresh. Lots of fresh air and a positive pressure system (mask with
remote air supply) is the best.
Seth
Otmar wrote:
>
> At 1:20 PM -0400 7/11/03, Seth Allen wrote:
> >A note-
> >
> >POR-15, while wonderful stuff, like most all urethane paints, has
> >isocyanates or other cyanide related compounds in it. It attacks the
> >central nervous system, so make sure you have PLENTY of ventilation. I
> >had a run in with a urethane paint and I wound up with Parkinson's like
> >twitching from it. Thankfully that stopped, and I learned my lesson.
>
> Now you tell me! :-)
> I just conformal coated (with urethane conformal coat) a large batch
> of Zilla boards. I did set up a fan, but I guess next time I'll put
> on that fancy mask with filters that I can't smell acetone through.
> Twitching? I'd rather not.
>
> Thanks for the warning. We have so many warnings in this life that
> it's hard to decide which ones to follow.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's the point of the
engine? If I could run it in all electric, I'd probably do that and never
use the ICE. In that case, it would be a total waste of money for all the
unneeded parts, and I couldn't fix it myself should it ever need it. I
think I'll still with a pure EV.
No offense intended to hybrid lovers, it's just not for me...
Aubrey
> What is this EV button you speak of? If you're referring to the "Start"
> button, I can assure you the first time you press it, the gas engine
> comes to life. There is no way I know of, on the current Prius, of
> which I own one, to force the gas engine to be off, other than running
> out of gas. I have never seen any indication that the new Prius is
> different in this regard.
>
> Also the NiMH battery in the Prius won't take you more than 5 or 6 miles
> by itself. I know this from first-hand experience.
>
> jorg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Keith Vogt
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 8:53 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
>
> The '04 Toyota Prius has an EV button, will be in production within 90
> days and its $20,000. So, the "big automakers" now produce an EV that is
> actually affordable.
>
> www.toyota.com/newprius
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are so light and small they will fit in a small uhaul trailer. If it
was mine I'd do it myself. Lawrence Rhodes....
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
> So, anyone know of a car hauling company that will move a non-functioning
> Sparrow from MI to WA?
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
More than once I've heard the advice not to pattent if you're an individual,
it's a waste of money.
Paul Compton
The way it was explained to me patents can be divided into 2 types:
Patents that no one wants to infringe on
or
Patents that someone wants to infringe on.
If your patent is the first type then it serves no purpose since no one
wants to copy your idea. You could have spent the time and money
building your idea.
If your patent is the second type then you have to go to court and
defend it, possibly against some very large well funded legal teams.
I recall that the guy who patented intermittent wipers ended up
collecting millions from the auto makers but he was in court for fifteen
years...
I'm not even sure if I would sign up for a chance at millions if it
meant 15 years in intimate contact with the court system.
So my concept (which is not patented) is to publicize the idea and put
it into limited production if it suits me talents to do so.
I have a vague recollection that you have a year to file for a patent
after the idea is made public.
If that's correct then I'd have a year to find someone interested in
funding the patent in exchange for the rights to produce it. I'd want my
name on the patent but would let them have all the other rights. They
could worry about marketing and production I just want credit for coming
up with the idea.
This way you don't patent anything that isn't wanted and if the patent
is infringed on then they can defend it.
I'd be willing to be fairly liberal on my terms, just pay me half my
usual rate for preparing the patent and give me some small royalty if it
sells more than a certain amount (so I don't feel too stupid if it
becomes a huge success).
If no one shows any interest in a patent or if someone else copies the
idea then just drop it and come up with a new idea (that's the fun part
of the process anyway). Maybe send a copy of the magazine article to the
patent examiner to make it tough for them to patent it....
I'm figuring this approach should allow me to spend much more time
tinkering and less time litigating.
--
Andrew (glad my wife has a good job) King
Ann Arbor Michigan
technology is the answer, what was the question?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you saying that you can input DC into an AC device?
Lawrence Rhodes.....
> I've used switching supplies as DC-DC converters by Cosel and others
> 90-240vac = 126 - 336Vdc. Also if they have a PFC front end they can be
> operated at lower DC, about 90Vdc depending on the manufacturer.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:57 AM
> Subject: Cheap DC to DC converter.
>
>
> > A bridge makes a bad boy. An inverter makes AC from DC. Is there a
cheap
> > way to make an inverter to directly convert DC to AC like a bridge
> converts
> > from AC to DC. If so there are thousands of really cheap 120-240vac
power
> > supplies that could be used as a DC to DC on vehicles that have a pack
> over
> > 120v. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> > from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:14 AM 7/11/2003 -0700, Lawrence Rhodes stated:
They are so light and small they will fit in a small uhaul trailer. If it
was mine I'd do it myself. Lawrence Rhodes....
Except for the 4800 miles of travel that would involve... (Hmm, my old
truck gets about 7 mpg, so about 686 gals of gas at $1.70/gal = $1166 just
in gas. Then there is the time involved...)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius
> Japanese version and the German version it has an EV
> button that will use electric power as long as possible,
> which will probably be ~5 miles. This is separate from
> the "start" button.
Keith -
Cool, if true! Bizarre that they don't mention this anywhere on the
Toyota Prius web pages. If I can confirm this for the U.S. version, I
may have to upgrade my Prius after all. I wish I could trust my dealer,
but when I bought my Prius, he told me that a navigation system was
built into the Prius, and required only calling an 800 number to
activate it. Turns out the 2001 Prius doesn't have a navigation system,
despite the buttons, and can't ever get one, either. I just wish I'd
gotten his promise in writing.
> Prior to 2004, there is no EV button, but EV mode can
> be accomplished by driving in reverse. ;-)
Don't laugh too much. I used to live in a small hill, and during the
first few months when I was trying to maximize my mileage, I'd back up
the hill to avoid having to use gas. That way, when I powered the Prius
up the next day, the battery would tend to be depleted, which is
important since for the first 5 minutes or so when a Prius is started
up, the gas engine runs to warm up the catalic converters which give the
Prius its SULEV rating.
> If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's
> the point of the engine?
Audrey, the point of the engine is that you might want to go visit your
mom in another state, and you're not going to be doing in that in a pure
electric, because the infrastructure for swapping out depleted batteries
doesn't exist yet (in the U.S.)
What we need now is a way to plug it in. This shouldn't be that hard to
hack in, electrically speaking....
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Aubrey Wilder
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:23 AM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's the point of
the
engine? If I could run it in all electric, I'd probably do that and
never
use the ICE. In that case, it would be a total waste of money for all
the
unneeded parts, and I couldn't fix it myself should it ever need it. I
think I'll still with a pure EV.
No offense intended to hybrid lovers, it's just not for me...
Aubrey
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Keith Vogt
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius Japanese
version and the German version it has an EV button that will use
electric power as long as possible, which will probably be ~5 miles.
This is separate from the "start" button.
Prior to 2004, there is no EV button, but EV mode can be accomplished by
driving in reverse. ;-)
> What is this EV button you speak of? If you're referring to the
"Start"
> button, I can assure you the first time you press it, the gas engine
> comes to life. There is no way I know of, on the current Prius, of
> which I own one, to force the gas engine to be off, other than running
> out of gas. I have never seen any indication that the new Prius is
> different in this regard.
>
> Also the NiMH battery in the Prius won't take you more than 5 or 6
miles
> by itself. I know this from first-hand experience.
>
> jorg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Keith Vogt
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 8:53 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
>
> The '04 Toyota Prius has an EV button, will be in production within 90
> days and its $20,000. So, the "big automakers" now produce an EV that
is
> actually affordable.
>
> www.toyota.com/newprius
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, I'm a Seth too, in Pasadena, CA.
Seth Dallob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: # of Seths
> I know there are two in New England. I (Seth Allen) work in Mass. Seth
> Murray goes to school in Mass. I think there is an other one on the list
> that posts too.
>
> Seth Allen
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:16 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote:
So, anyone know of a car hauling company that will move a non-functioning
Sparrow from MI to WA?
Try Mailboxes Etc (now the UPS Store). They claim they can crate and ship
anything ; )
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bryan (and all interested about my BMS progress),
Any charger will work for now, because the part of BMS - pack averager
(tells each module what to compare cell's voltage to) is the part of
my BMS. Later Brusa will consider to integrate averager into its
charger,
which is really only software thing - this will simplify BMS. One still
will be able to use non-brusa charger if also use stand alone averager.
Averager is 3 ICs, few discrete components and small isolated DC-DC
converter powering it.
The charger is natural choice - it monitors the pack voltage anyway.
In software GUI there will be a small window in which a user select
how many batteries or cells he has in a pack. So the software divides
total voltage by this number, and resulting average gets broadcasted to
each module which boosts or drains the cell depending on the comparison
results.
As of now, I want to get on the road as soon as possible (of course
not at the expense of bad BMS implementation though). So it will
initially
maintain the same voltages along the string during charge, nothing
else at this point. This part is debugged and works very well, and this
is what I'm making first PCBs for. I'll use solder paste stenciled
on the board and reflow in an oven, as putting together 100 identical
PCBssoldering each part is too tedious. All the components are SMT,
PIC is still in the socket for easy reprogramming. Later is will also
be SMT mounted and use ISP to alter its software over common bus.
While I drive and collect data, display module is being designed and
will be add on option. I already have display module (Optrex DMF-5010
240x64 LCD display. A fluorescent tube based one is also available and
is drop in pin compatible option.
Whether dispaly software is implemented or not, the core software
dealing with cells remains unchanged though
(only adds visualization of the pack status), so having display
isn't going to improve actual battery treatment - only letting
user know what is going on. Important, but can wait.
Also, BMS won't talk to inverter for now - inverter will reduce
drive current (thus not allowing overdischarge) on its own when
the voltage drops to preprogrammed level. Initially I'll set
bottom level high, like 3.3VPC or so, so I'll break it in gently.
Talking to the charger is more important than to the inverter.
During driving BMS isn't active, just monitors the voltages/temps
and will transmit it along with other statistics to the display
(the BUS part of PCB as well as voltage booster won't be populated
for now). I'm not even convinced that the booster is nesessary -
will see how many cells will need boost at any one time.
Bypass drain current as designed is 1.2A, which is 10% of
the charging current I will have for 328V pack. I don't expect
the cells differ by that much though. This is TBD and there is an
option to double bypass current by a module if needed.
Victor
Bryan Avery wrote:
>
> Hi Victor,
> It sounds like you must be making progress on your BMS. I know
> you are designing it to communicate with the inverter, but do you also
> plan to have it communicate with the battery charger as well? Just
> wondering if I end up using your BMS (which I really would like to), am
> I stuck with the Brusa charger, or will any charger work?
>
> -Bryan Avery
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 6:59 PM
> > To: ev
> > Subject: Making PCBs
> >
> > Anyone out there used PCB123 service to order PCBs? Is their
> > free software any good or I better use something else?
> > Any comments experiences or advise welcome.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not go other way then and make interconnects themselves out of
aluminum bars? Negligible loss increase vs copper (compare to the loss
in the cell itself) won't make any practical difference.
Victor
Chris Tromley wrote:
>
> Bryan Avery wrote:
>
> > All this talk about battery box material and corrosion from
> > matching dissimilar metals together has got me wondering if I
> > need to rethink some of my other plans. My current plan for
> > battery interconnects is to connect the li-ion cells within
> > each strapped together bundle using a combination of solid
> > copper bus bar and aluminum heat sink. For something like
> > this, should the copper be tin-plated (or dipped in solder,
> > etc.) or is that overkill?
>
> If this goes back to the discussion of putting aluminum heat sinks *on*
> the buss bars to improve cell cooling, why make your heat sinks out of
> aluminum? Copper is a better material than aluminum for a heat sink, in
> terms of thermal dissipation. The only reasons copper isn't used for
> heat sinks in general are cost, weight and ease of fabrication. Just
> solder some copper fins to your buss bars, and while you're at it coat
> the whole buss bar with solder. Or mechanically attach the fins and dip
> the whole thing in solder. Copper hates acid, and the solder will
> protect it.
>
> Years ago the Honda factory motocross team had two seemingly unrelated
> problems that were solved with a single clever solution. Their engines
> were running hot. They wanted to improve handling by lowering the polar
> moment. They could shave weight at the ends of the bike, but they were
> already at the weight minimum. The solution was to machine cylinder
> heads from solid copper. Better heat radiation, better concentration of
> mass right where it needed to be. Normally at the end of the season
> they crush the bikes. On these bikes they saved the copper heads.
>
> Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.cratersandfreighters.com/
Never used 'em, but I have heard their ads.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
At 07:16 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote:
>So, anyone know of a car hauling company that will move a non-functioning
>Sparrow from MI to WA?
Try Mailboxes Etc (now the UPS Store). They claim they can crate and ship
anything ; )
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my previous EV life I use to have Gast pump in ACRX.
I didn't know about MES pump existence, but was thinking - how much
I'm willing to pay (one time thing) for not hearing moaning pump ever
again.
Considering irritation Gast created, $284 was well within my estimation.
Justification depends on how much you hate your current pump.
Victor
Dave Anderson wrote:
>
> This looks really cool Victor, but if I install one one of these, it will
> approximately triple the value of my 1981 Escort chassis. :) But I will
> definitely consider this for my next ground-up project, which is going to be
> with all new components.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/pump.htm
>
> $284 today.
>
> Victor
>
> Dave Anderson wrote:
> >
> > My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> > Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect
> of
> > driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
> > quieter. Any recommendations?
> >
> > The one I have now looks just like this one:
> > http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
> >
> > -Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have any other recommendations (due to my short timeframe)? Best to
transport a Sparrow on a flatbed or enclosed van. Actual space requirement
is about 8'2" x 4'5" plus clearance. I've also priced out renting a 10'
Uhaul truck, but to fly up, rent and gas back comes to about $650+, plus one
day of my time (SF/Portland/SF).
We hauled our Voltsrabbit in an enclosed van once. There were a couple of
problems. First, we had to custom build a pair of ramps to get the car in
there. These were last seen at Mike Slominski's. God knows where they are
now. Second, there was no place to properly tie the thing down. We drilled
holes in the floor and installed big eyebolts and strapped the car in with
heavy duty nylon ratcheting tie-downs. It wasn't enough. Road vibrations
walked the car around and it was rubbing the front bumper on the wall. We
ended up chocking all the wheels by nailing 2x4s into the floor fore and aft.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NO! Never fill the liner with water! It will get inside the pump
through the air exhaust hole and destroy electronics inside.
As it is, I can't hear it anyway. For those who don't know:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac1.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac3.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac4.jpg
Victor
David Brandt wrote:
>
> Mine, too! Victor has a good solution. Hang it in an old inner tube from
> under the car. I think he even filled the tube with water.
>
> I think a better type of pump would work, by being be a lot quieter and more
> responsive, too. All that is out there seems to be diaphragm pumps. I'd
> think a higher speed motor coupled to a rotary vane pump would work better,
> and be very smooth, quiet, and not have as much "on" time. It'd be smaller
> too!
>
> To work good, it should have a circuit attached that ramps up to speed to
> eliminate a 12V current spike. I don't think there is enough market for me
> to design one and make any money, but I could make drawings and post them if
> there was enough interest. It would take quite a while, as I don't have
> software at home right now.
>
> Anybody care to recomment a free CAD program (machanical) that will export
> DXF? Comments on the type of pump that would work?
>
> I know some have converted to manual brakes. Performance brakes
> (http://www.mpbrakes.com/) even tells you how to do it to some degree. How
> well do they work, and what (specifically) was involved in doing it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:05 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Noisy Vacuum Pump
>
> My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect of
> driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
> quieter. Any recommendations?
>
> The one I have now looks just like this one:
> http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
>
> -Dave
>
> IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
> THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
> DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
> SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
> READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
> TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, for the West (Left) Coast, Kiwi Karrier seems to have the best
rates. Thanks for the suggestions.
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
http://www.cratersandfreighters.com/
Never used 'em, but I have heard their ads.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Auto Transporters who will move a Sparrow
At 07:16 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote:
>So, anyone know of a car hauling company that will move a non-functioning
>Sparrow from MI to WA?
Try Mailboxes Etc (now the UPS Store). They claim they can crate and ship
anything ; )
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >I thought, I
> bet this could be used to run a vaccum pump and provide some (if not great)
> > air condioning.
>
> I would recommend a vac pump off a 6.2 L Diesel. Available from any GM
> dealer.
Just curious, are you folks talking about using a vacuum pump FOR A/C or
in addition to an A/C compressor?
I'm pretty sure that Dave is talking about 'in addition' but I'm not
sure that James was.
FWIW you can NOT use a vacuum pump for A/C, at least not very
effectively.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim,
Thanks for killing off my prospective shirt sales ;-)
And speaking of not having the "Circuit Breaker" on any shirts. I don't
believe for a second that you and Ken are going to sit idly by and let the
"Orange Squeezer" put a squeeze on your record.
My prediction: There won't be any cob webs holding back the dragsters later
this year in Vegas. Man, I'm envying Richard Furniss now.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
> Hey Chip, why don't you use a picture of a car that actually races on the
> drag strip not a storage unit for spiders? there's cars, trucks, bikes, all
> kinds
> of current racers even an Orange Squeezer, let's back the guys that are
> walkin not just talkin...................................OOOOOPS guess my
> car
> won't be on any shirts.
>
> Jim..............where's that bug spray?
>> And we have several L and XL 2002 Power of DC Shirts left that feature a
>> cartoon version of Roderick Wilde's Maniac Mazda like the one on our 2002
>> Power of DC homepage http://www.powerofdc.com/2002/index.html. $10 each for
>> those
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except it can't support much weight, it's very flexible (at least in one
direction) and it's hard to find adhesives that will stick to it.
It would be good for lining a box though, but styrofoam is cheaper and
provides insulation.
On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 16:57, tom peterson wrote:
> The corrigated plastic they make real estate signs out of should work well.
> And I have seen boxes made out of this material in the post office and other
> places.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:04 AM
> Subject: RE: Battery Box material - a few more details
>
>
> > Thanks for the suggestions and ideas so far :-)
> >
> > Sorry, I should have been more specific.
> >
> > The box is for structure.
> > The batts are sealed Li-ions, and shouldn't dribble, spit or fart during
> normal use (I hope...)
> >
> > The "box" could be as little as a frame made from angle iron/aluminium
> though I think I would prefer to have at least the base and sides enclosed
> since it will be open to the road and I'd like to protect the batts from
> rocks and other debris.
> >
> > My current thoughts are for a decent sized aluminium plate as the base,
> angle aluminium for the structure, and perhaps plastic for the sides.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, 7 July 2003 3:44 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Battery Box material
> >
> >
> > The original question neglects whether the box is for
> > structure, or vapor containment.
> > If the structural member for the batteries is angle
> > iron, then a 3/16" polypropylene box is great for
> > insulating and to enclose H2 gas so that it doesn't
> > come in contact with the main contactor or other
> > source of spark. This also has the advantage of not
> > corroding from acid vapors, and it's non-conductive
> > If the structural member for the batteries _is_ the
> > box of which you speak, then IMHO you must use
> > something stronger such as the metal or wood.
> >
> > =====
> > '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> > (in progress)! ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wh
> eel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> >
> >
> >
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 18:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Again, I agree that most modern cars go 50 k to 100 k miles before
> repairs get costly, and about 100 K was when I started replacing major
> components (one after another because the cost of a new car was not
> reasonable) but most lower and middle class people can not afford to
> spend $ 15 K and up for a new car these days and you might notice that
> even the upper class car companies are offering rebates because sales are
> off.
If you can't afford 15K for a new car that won't need any maintnenace
for 100K plus miles, why would you be able to afford $10K to convert a
used car to electric(with no warranty) and then pay $1-2K every couple
years for new batteries?
Apples to apples. Evs are predominantly hobbies at this point in time.
P.S. If you can't afford $15 for new, you do like everyone else and buy
a 3 year old car with 36K miles on it for less than 1/2 price and drive
it for another 75K miles without problems.
My '94 escort is going strong at close to 150K miles and the only major
repairs it's needed so far have been a clutch and timing belt.
> One of my co-workers spent $ 250 at a dealer to have a new set of plugs
> and wires put in his 2001 Ford 4 cylinder pickup truck instead of
> spending maybe $ 50 in parts and a Saturday or Sunday doing the work
> himself.
Yup, now guess how much the same dealer would have charged him to change
a battery pack if EVs were common. Probably $500+ in labor alone.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How the heck do you figure that??!!?!
1,000 lbs of lead isn't enough to get over 50 miles range in most cases,
35 is about what you can get from 1,000lbs without going past 80% DOD.
This car is NOT that aerodynamic.
On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 11:20, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> why 1400 pounds? 1000 pounds of lead would be good for over 100 miles
> range. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:07 AM
> Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
>
>
> > But can it handle an additional 1400 pounds of batteries + motor +
> > riders?
> >
> > jorg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:32 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
> >
> > Maybe a sand rail frame with a kit body over it. They are light. Sub
> > 1000
> > pounds with the motor and tranny in and running.....Lawrence
> > Rhodes......
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> > from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 10:27 PM
> > Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
> >
> >
> > > I don't mean to be a downer, but my eyes just glaze over at people's
> > new
> > > electric car projects. The hurdles to making a full-on electric car
> > are
> > > enormous - including lots of regulatory hurdles, red ink, etc. Just
> > ask
> > > the AC Propulsion people why the tZero hasn't made it yet. Or the
> > > tropica folk. Or the 3-wheeler...
> > >
> > > Biggest thing is, when someone else builds it, they not only lock you
> > > into a style of car (sport car, sedan, truck, 4x4, whatever), they
> > also
> > > lock you into a type of propulsion, and a battery technology.
> > >
> > > I'm sick of being forced to pick between the two extremes of expensive
> > > pre-built electrics whose manufacturers are going broke, and
> > inexpensive
> > > old gassers in need of lots of conversion labor.
> > >
> > > I don't want an electric vehicle anymore. Right now what I want is a
> > > cheap, LIGHT, chassis with a big, low-center-of-gravity battery box.
> > > Give me a speedometer, ammeter, and voltmeter, make it rear-wheel
> > drive,
> > > and give me a way to pick my own gear ratio, my own motor, my own
> > > controller, my own battery.
> > >
> > > Surely, someone...
> > >
> > > jorg
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Brad Waddell
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:43 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: New EV to go into production
> > >
> > > Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under
> > > construction.
> > > Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
> > >
> > > http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
> > >
> > > brad
> > >
> > > Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> > > Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> > > QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
