EV Digest 2915
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: A Buck a Watt
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Cheap DC to DC converter.
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: New EV to go into production
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A/C in a Henney?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New EV to go into production
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: plated bus bars?
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Some ideas/questions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: plated bus bars?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: New EV to go into production
by Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Bolder TMF Cells
by "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New EV to go into production
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Some ideas/questions
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: New EV to go into production
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New EV to go into production
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT Re: patents...
by Ben Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: New EV to go into production
by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) HTML on the EVDL and AOL
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: HTML on the EVDL and AOL
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New EV to go into production
by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) It's raining again
by "Shawn Lawless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: plated bus bars?
by "Bryan Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
>
> A Buck a Watt is typical for a switching battery charger.
>
Shhh, don't say that...Rich will hear you. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It depends on the AC device, but in many cases, yes you can.
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 11:22, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> Are you saying that you can input DC into an AC device?
> Lawrence Rhodes.....
> > I've used switching supplies as DC-DC converters by Cosel and others
> > 90-240vac = 126 - 336Vdc. Also if they have a PFC front end they can be
> > operated at lower DC, about 90Vdc depending on the manufacturer.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:57 AM
> > Subject: Cheap DC to DC converter.
> >
> >
> > > A bridge makes a bad boy. An inverter makes AC from DC. Is there a
> cheap
> > > way to make an inverter to directly convert DC to AC like a bridge
> > converts
> > > from AC to DC. If so there are thousands of really cheap 120-240vac
> power
> > > supplies that could be used as a DC to DC on vehicles that have a pack
> > over
> > > 120v. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> > > from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
> > >
> >
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 13:23, Aubrey Wilder wrote:
> If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's the point of the
> engine? If I could run it in all electric, I'd probably do that and never
> use the ICE. In that case, it would be a total waste of money for all the
> unneeded parts, and I couldn't fix it myself should it ever need it. I
> think I'll still with a pure EV.
>
> No offense intended to hybrid lovers, it's just not for me...
Personally, I love the idea. You no longer need two cars: an EV for
daily driving, and an ICE for trips. Just use the same car. And no
more concerns if you can't find the local charging station - or if it's
full. Just switch to gas mode and off you go.
I hope this really happens.... but I have one problem with the car. I'm
a convertible guy. Wonder when a concept like this will be available in
a convertible?
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: A/C in a Henney?
> Just curious, are you folks talking about using a vacuum pump FOR A/C or
> in addition to an A/C compressor?
>
> I'm pretty sure that Dave is talking about 'in addition' but I'm not
> sure that James was.
>
> FWIW you can NOT use a vacuum pump for A/C, at least not very
> effectively.
Peter, I was recommending using the diesel vac pump for vacuum and a Sanden
for the A/C compressor. Sorry if I was unclear. I still think running the
diesel vac pump off the accessory drive on the motor with the big GM vac
ball (or even 2, they are cheap and readily available), and then using a
seperate motor to drive the A/C compressor is the best way to go. DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bryan,
Whose LiIon cells are you using. How did you going about choosing them over
the others that are on the market?
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'EV Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:35 AM
Subject: plated bus bars?
> All this talk about battery box material and corrosion from matching
> dissimilar metals together has got me wondering if I need to rethink
> some of my other plans. My current plan for battery interconnects is to
> connect the li-ion cells within each strapped together bundle using a
> combination of solid copper bus bar and aluminum heat sink. For
> something like this, should the copper be tin-plated (or dipped in
> solder, etc.) or is that overkill?
>
>
>
> -Bryan Avery
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I noted on my MR-2 that most of the noise from the Vacuum pump emanated
from the intake port on the pump. I made a little muffler out of a
piece of tubing and some air filters and mounted it in a convenient spot
beneath the car and ran a piece of tubing from the intake port down to
the muffler. The pump could still be heard if you were parked, but was
no longer a source of annoyance.
Bob Boyd 1991 Toyota MR-2
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
NO! Never fill the liner with water! It will get inside the pump
through the air exhaust hole and destroy electronics inside.
As it is, I can't hear it anyway. For those who don't know:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac1.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac3.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac4.jpg
Victor
David Brandt wrote:
>
> Mine, too! Victor has a good solution. Hang it in an old inner tube
from
> under the car. I think he even filled the tube with water.
>
> I think a better type of pump would work, by being be a lot quieter
and more
> responsive, too. All that is out there seems to be diaphragm pumps.
I'd
> think a higher speed motor coupled to a rotary vane pump would work
better,
> and be very smooth, quiet, and not have as much "on" time. It'd be
smaller
> too!
>
> To work good, it should have a circuit attached that ramps up to speed
to
> eliminate a 12V current spike. I don't think there is enough market
for me
> to design one and make any money, but I could make drawings and post
them if
> there was enough interest. It would take quite a while, as I don't
have
> software at home right now.
>
> Anybody care to recomment a free CAD program (machanical) that will
export
> DXF? Comments on the type of pump that would work?
>
> I know some have converted to manual brakes. Performance brakes
> (http://www.mpbrakes.com/) even tells you how to do it to some degree.
How
> well do they work, and what (specifically) was involved in doing it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:05 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Noisy Vacuum Pump
>
> My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth"
aspect of
> driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that
is
> quieter. Any recommendations?
>
> The one I have now looks just like this one:
> http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
>
> -Dave
>
> IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY
FOR
> THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
> DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED
RECIPIENT, YOU
> SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED
THAT ANY
> READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR
THE
> TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction; I meant the air exhaust hole. Bob Boyd --Sorry.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
NO! Never fill the liner with water! It will get inside the pump
through the air exhaust hole and destroy electronics inside.
As it is, I can't hear it anyway. For those who don't know:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac1.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac3.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac4.jpg
Victor
David Brandt wrote:
>
> Mine, too! Victor has a good solution. Hang it in an old inner tube
from
> under the car. I think he even filled the tube with water.
>
> I think a better type of pump would work, by being be a lot quieter
and more
> responsive, too. All that is out there seems to be diaphragm pumps.
I'd
> think a higher speed motor coupled to a rotary vane pump would work
better,
> and be very smooth, quiet, and not have as much "on" time. It'd be
smaller
> too!
>
> To work good, it should have a circuit attached that ramps up to speed
to
> eliminate a 12V current spike. I don't think there is enough market
for me
> to design one and make any money, but I could make drawings and post
them if
> there was enough interest. It would take quite a while, as I don't
have
> software at home right now.
>
> Anybody care to recomment a free CAD program (machanical) that will
export
> DXF? Comments on the type of pump that would work?
>
> I know some have converted to manual brakes. Performance brakes
> (http://www.mpbrakes.com/) even tells you how to do it to some degree.
How
> well do they work, and what (specifically) was involved in doing it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:05 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Noisy Vacuum Pump
>
> My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth"
aspect of
> driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that
is
> quieter. Any recommendations?
>
> The one I have now looks just like this one:
> http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
>
> -Dave
>
> IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY
FOR
> THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
> DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED
RECIPIENT, YOU
> SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED
THAT ANY
> READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR
THE
> TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do we really need vacuum on EV's?, How hard would it be to make a
solonoid(linear motor) to provide the assist, Would it be more or less
efficient? I am sure it would be smaller. maybe a manual master cyl
mounted a sol, I could figure out the mechanical part but I would need
lee's or riches help with the electric/electonic part. would it be easy
to control with assist relative to pedal travel.
self propelled swap pack:
Would I be crazy(money vs efficency) to aquire 2 rollers and make 2
equal EV's of shorter range than 1 longer range vehicle. I could drive
to work and back in one while the other charged at home on solar and
late night grid, then swap EV's when I get home and head out to school,
store, paintball, etc. Would this allow me to have a chaeper, slower,
better charge cycle?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the MES pumps outlet hole is about 3 mm dia, and comes off of
spiral resonator chamber muting the noise to the levels that
no additional measures are necessary. You hear more noise from
mechanical vibration of the panel (or whatever part) the pump
is bolted to (even with supplied rubber stands), than actual
acoustic noise from the tiny exhaust hole.
This is clever design; MES pumps don't cost so much for nothing.
Victor
rcboyd wrote:
>
> Correction; I meant the air exhaust hole. Bob Boyd --Sorry.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:08 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
>
> NO! Never fill the liner with water! It will get inside the pump
> through the air exhaust hole and destroy electronics inside.
>
> As it is, I can't hear it anyway. For those who don't know:
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac1.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac2.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac3.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/vac4.jpg
>
> Victor
>
> David Brandt wrote:
> >
> > Mine, too! Victor has a good solution. Hang it in an old inner tube
> from
> > under the car. I think he even filled the tube with water.
> >
> > I think a better type of pump would work, by being be a lot quieter
> and more
> > responsive, too. All that is out there seems to be diaphragm pumps.
> I'd
> > think a higher speed motor coupled to a rotary vane pump would work
> better,
> > and be very smooth, quiet, and not have as much "on" time. It'd be
> smaller
> > too!
> >
> > To work good, it should have a circuit attached that ramps up to speed
> to
> > eliminate a 12V current spike. I don't think there is enough market
> for me
> > to design one and make any money, but I could make drawings and post
> them if
> > there was enough interest. It would take quite a while, as I don't
> have
> > software at home right now.
> >
> > Anybody care to recomment a free CAD program (machanical) that will
> export
> > DXF? Comments on the type of pump that would work?
> >
> > I know some have converted to manual brakes. Performance brakes
> > (http://www.mpbrakes.com/) even tells you how to do it to some degree.
> How
> > well do they work, and what (specifically) was involved in doing it?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:05 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Noisy Vacuum Pump
> >
> > My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> > Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth"
> aspect of
> > driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that
> is
> > quieter. Any recommendations?
> >
> > The one I have now looks just like this one:
> > http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY
> FOR
> > THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
> > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
> > DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED
> RECIPIENT, YOU
> > SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED
> THAT ANY
> > READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR
> THE
> > TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The LiOns don't use a water-based electrolyte, so there's no acid or
base. I don't know what is in there, but I think it is a hydrocarbon
based, and probably won't attack metals. Thus, corrosion of the
terminals is much less likely.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am aware of the range of an electric car. If I were going to drive for a
week across the country to visit my mom, I'd probably take my husband's car.
(Or much more likely, fly and rent a car.)
Like I said before, I'm not against hybrids. I'm sure they work for some
people. I just think they're overly complicated and largely pointless,
AuBrey
> Audrey, the point of the engine is that you might want to go visit your
> mom in another state, and you're not going to be doing in that in a pure
> electric, because the infrastructure for swapping out depleted batteries
> doesn't exist yet (in the U.S.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So does our resident JC rep know anything about TMF Batteries or
is the licensing being held up due to GP acquiring Bolder?
Stay Charged!
Hump (but you can call me Seth)
-----Original Message-----
From: FRANK GIANNANDREA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Bolder TMF Cells
I am not sure, but this may be what has became of this technology
in the end.
GP Batteries Acquires TMF Technology and Facility from Bolder
Technologies of the US
http://209.41.56.193/listco/hk/goldpeak/press/p011220.htm
It seem at one point they licensed it to Johnson Controls as well.
<http://mit42v.mit.edu/public/In_the_News/Naperville_Sun_5-14-
2000.pdf>
-Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: T Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:47 am
Subject: Bolder TMF Cells
> I know that Bolder Tech went out of business. I was wondering
about
> the TMF technology it seems someone would have picked this up.
>
> Are the TMF cells not being manufactured by anyone. I see the
portable
> jump-start boxes still being sold. What's in them, Hawkers?
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
>
> Bill Dube wrote:
> > Louie indeed went over 100 mph in a cart in the 1/4
mile. He
> >smoked the tires most of the way down the strip. It was
impressive.
> >He had the last of the Bolder TMF cells in it. Nothing quite
like
> >Bolder TMF for drag racing. :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[message truncated]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi AuBrey,
Hybrids are complicated, but get extremely good gas mileage and are less
poluting than the regular gasoline or diesel powered passenger vehicles.
The regenerative braking system of hybrids significantly extends brake
pad life.
Hybrids are a good compromise for someone that can only afford to own one
car or doesn't have a place to recharge a straight electric. Or for a
family that needs the extended range on all their vehicles that only a
hybrid can provide.
The only problem I have with hybrids, other than not easy to work on, is
that both propulsion systems are jam packed up front, not easily
maintained or repaired, and certainly would see alot of damage in a front
end collision.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:42:20 -0700 Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> I am aware of the range of an electric car. If I were going to drive
> for a
> week across the country to visit my mom, I'd probably take my
> husband's car.
> (Or much more likely, fly and rent a car.)
>
> Like I said before, I'm not against hybrids. I'm sure they work for
> some
> people. I just think they're overly complicated and largely
> pointless,
>
> AuBrey
>
>
> > Audrey, the point of the engine is that you might want to go visit
> your
> > mom in another state, and you're not going to be doing in that in
> a pure
> > electric, because the infrastructure for swapping out depleted
> batteries
> > doesn't exist yet (in the U.S.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The easiest thing to do is just switch to manual brakes (grin). For the
past year I've been using power brakes without a vacuum assist. One of
these days I'm going to take the vacuum assist chamber off, that will
make it much easier to use (it's spring loaded).
Getting a linear solenoid to work right is possible, but complicated.
Tat said it seems to me that someone(s?) have already developed
electrical assist. I don't know if it's actually available on any cars
yet though.
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 18:33, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Do we really need vacuum on EV's?, How hard would it be to make a
> solonoid(linear motor) to provide the assist, Would it be more or less
> efficient? I am sure it would be smaller. maybe a manual master cyl
> mounted a sol, I could figure out the mechanical part but I would need
> lee's or riches help with the electric/electonic part. would it be easy
> to control with assist relative to pedal travel.
>
> self propelled swap pack:
> Would I be crazy(money vs efficency) to aquire 2 rollers and make 2
> equal EV's of shorter range than 1 longer range vehicle. I could drive
> to work and back in one while the other charged at home on solar and
> late night grid, then swap EV's when I get home and head out to school,
> store, paintball, etc. Would this allow me to have a chaeper, slower,
> better charge cycle?
>
>
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Like I said before, I'm not against hybrids. I'm sure they work for some
> people. I just think they're overly complicated and largely pointless,
>
You forgot to say "for me"
For me, they make sense. I am currently working a job that frequently
requires small trips around town AND frequently requires trips to a town
80 miles away (and then driving around there) and occasionally requires
trips to a town 170 miles away.
A hybrid would be ideal for me. While driving around in town I could be
on electric and in between towns I could fire up the hydrocarbon ICE and
recharge the pack while driving to the next town.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Jul 2003 at 19:42, Aubrey Wilder wrote:
> Like I said before, I'm not against hybrids. I'm sure they work for some
> people. I just think they're overly complicated and largely pointless
I suppose I'm a purist, but I want to point out that no one is producing
what I consider true hybrids. A true hybrid has more than one source of
input energy. The so-called "hybrids" from Honda and Toyota derive all
their energy from gasoline. True, they use it efficiently; but it's still a
single source.
A true hybrid could be plugged in or gassed [dieseled?] up, whichever served
the operator's needs better under a given set of circumstances. This
wouldn't be pointless at all! Unfortunately, your objection to the
complexity wouldn't be addressed by this.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It
eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the
business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation.
-- Johnny Hart
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way it was explained to me patents can be divided into 2 types:
Patents that no one wants to infringe on
or
Patents that someone wants to infringe on.
E.J. Potter tells a story in his book (Michigan Madman) of a clever way he got
around this. It seems he had invented a dynamometer Which he was marketing.
rather than apply for a patent, he put a dummy computery (his word) looking
board in his unit in such a way that it appeared to be a integral part of his
dyno. He did this to one he was showing at a trade show. It worked because he
saw some people trying to figure out (steal) is idea, the dummy board stumped them.
--
The early bird still has to eat worms.
Ben Bennett
http://home.earthlink.net/~greyhawk200/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Resending ... looks the the first post didn't work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
> No details on the EV button that I can find (yet), but here are a couple
> references to additional information (in my opinion, the
> www.toyota.com/newprius site is horribly unfriendly). I'd sure like to
know
> how many wh are in the batteries. I wonder if one could add more...
> Apparently a 50kw motor operating at up to 500v - might be powerful enough
> to run universally without the gas engine.
>
> http://www.corolland.com/prius/gen2.html - moderate length text with
pricing
> and many details, but few specs.
>
>
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/previews,view,Toyota.spy?artid=13861&pg=
> 5 - summary of some specs; article on preceeding pages.
>
> And also this, from Yahoo Groups
> --------------------
> Date: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:03 pm
> Subject: EV-only Button?
>
> Several UK Prius owners were invited by Toyota to
> preview the 2004 model today in Wimbledon (South
> London). Reports are posted on Prius UK and on
> Prius Technical Stuff, with pics in 2004-Prius
> archive.
>
> While there I discovered that 2004 has an
> EV-mode button that allegedly prevents the ICE
> from starting. Was this already known here?
> ----------
>
> Peri Hartman
> Seattle
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:48 AM
> Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
>
>
> > > According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius
> > > Japanese version and the German version it has an EV
> > > button that will use electric power as long as possible,
> > > which will probably be ~5 miles. This is separate from
> > > the "start" button.
> >
> > Keith -
> >
> > Cool, if true! Bizarre that they don't mention this anywhere on the
> > Toyota Prius web pages. If I can confirm this for the U.S. version, I
> > may have to upgrade my Prius after all. I wish I could trust my dealer,
> > but when I bought my Prius, he told me that a navigation system was
> > built into the Prius, and required only calling an 800 number to
> > activate it. Turns out the 2001 Prius doesn't have a navigation system,
> > despite the buttons, and can't ever get one, either. I just wish I'd
> > gotten his promise in writing.
> >
> > > Prior to 2004, there is no EV button, but EV mode can
> > > be accomplished by driving in reverse. ;-)
> >
> > Don't laugh too much. I used to live in a small hill, and during the
> > first few months when I was trying to maximize my mileage, I'd back up
> > the hill to avoid having to use gas. That way, when I powered the Prius
> > up the next day, the battery would tend to be depleted, which is
> > important since for the first 5 minutes or so when a Prius is started
> > up, the gas engine runs to warm up the catalic converters which give the
> > Prius its SULEV rating.
> >
> > > If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's
> > > the point of the engine?
> >
> > Audrey, the point of the engine is that you might want to go visit your
> > mom in another state, and you're not going to be doing in that in a pure
> > electric, because the infrastructure for swapping out depleted batteries
> > doesn't exist yet (in the U.S.)
> >
> > What we need now is a way to plug it in. This shouldn't be that hard to
> > hack in, electrically speaking....
> >
> > jorg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Aubrey Wilder
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:23 AM
> > To: EV List
> > Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
> >
> > If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's the point of
> > the
> > engine? If I could run it in all electric, I'd probably do that and
> > never
> > use the ICE. In that case, it would be a total waste of money for all
> > the
> > unneeded parts, and I couldn't fix it myself should it ever need it. I
> > think I'll still with a pure EV.
> >
> > No offense intended to hybrid lovers, it's just not for me...
> > Aubrey
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Keith Vogt
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:33 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
> >
> > According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius Japanese
> > version and the German version it has an EV button that will use
> > electric power as long as possible, which will probably be ~5 miles.
> > This is separate from the "start" button.
> >
> > Prior to 2004, there is no EV button, but EV mode can be accomplished by
> > driving in reverse. ;-)
> >
> >
> > > What is this EV button you speak of? If you're referring to the
> > "Start"
> > > button, I can assure you the first time you press it, the gas engine
> > > comes to life. There is no way I know of, on the current Prius, of
> > > which I own one, to force the gas engine to be off, other than running
> > > out of gas. I have never seen any indication that the new Prius is
> > > different in this regard.
> > >
> > > Also the NiMH battery in the Prius won't take you more than 5 or 6
> > miles
> > > by itself. I know this from first-hand experience.
> > >
> > > jorg
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Keith Vogt
> > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 8:53 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
> > >
> > > The '04 Toyota Prius has an EV button, will be in production within 90
> > > days and its $20,000. So, the "big automakers" now produce an EV that
> > is
> > > actually affordable.
> > >
> > > www.toyota.com/newprius
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Your post to the EVDL included HTML which the list server automatically
strips off. HTML is not allowed on this list. Many of the members of the
list will only see the following message and will not have a chance to
consider or reply to your post.
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
Please verify that your e-mail client is setup to send plain text. If you
are not sure how to do this reply to me directly and I will see if I can
help.
I see that you are using AOL. We have had quite a bit of discussion about
how to send plain text using AOL. The following is taken from one such
thread, hopefully it will help you.
thanks
damon
I've been an AOL customer since they started but today, I connect via DSL
from a different
supplier and use AOL's bring your own ISP package. I'm just keeping the
email address I've had
for many years. If you're an AOL customer you can send text only by going to
www.aol.com,
logging in and reading and creating your email from there. That's where this
is coming from.
Steve
In a message dated 7/3/2003 10:38:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Comments inserted.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Brandon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: AOL 8.0
> Up until now I've been satisfied with AOL. I've found it to give a
> faster and more reliable dialup than many of it's rivals.
As an early user of AOL, I grew into the internet on it. And yes, initially
it was the greatest. And even years later when I became more computer
savvy,
it still worked well enough for my needs and was like an old shoe.
>However they've managed to piss me off bigtime. Customer support don't
seem to know about this issue.>
They terminally hacked me off a couple of months ago. And yes AOLs CS team
couldn't (as a rule, met a couple of good guys over the years, didn't last
long) support their A** with both hands. When I called in to cancel my
account and they saw how long I had been a user, they gave my 2 free
months,
and when I called back in to verify the cancellation they offered me
another
2 months, and have even E-mailed me begging me to come back with more free
month offers. Good riddance!!
> If you also use AOL, DON'T UPGRADE!<
Even better, DOWNGRADE!! Get a copy of 7.0 and browse the CD. There is a
Version 5.0 on it. Install it on the same machine ( I had both Ver 7.0 and
5.0 installed on mine, they ignore each other). That way whenever you want
to read your EV list or more importantly Post to any list that doesn't
support HTML, Log on with the Ver. 5.0 shortcut. Its a little inconvenient,
that is the main reason I did so little posting over the last year or so.
When I really wanted to reply to a post I usually found that I was on 7.0
and said NM rather than switch versions. I imagine that some here would
rather I HAD stayed with AOL :-).
I even have an account on Wal Mart Connect, would recommend that over AOL,
almost same format/service and only $ 9.95 a month unlimited. I mostly keep
that account for a friend that I put on the net and as an extra way to get
e-mail when travelling.
I do have to tell you since dumping AOL in favor of a simple local 56K
dialup account from a reliable local ISP (FastQ) I couldn't be happier.
Back
to 49K downloads and 99.9% no discons. I did find that changing to a USR
Internet Pro "hardware type" modem ( 80.00 from Frys Electronics) has
helped
stability over the typical 56K WinModem as well. Good Luck, David Chapman.
Up until now I've been satisfied with AOL. I've found it to give a faster
and more reliable
dialup than many of it's rivals. However, they've managed to piss me off
bigtime. With the
introduction of version 8.0 it is now totally impossible to generate emails
in plain text format
from within AOL. It was difficult enough under AOL 7 (early versions) and
I've discovered the
facility was removed from later releases. Customer support don't seem to
know about this issue.
If you also use AOL, DON'T UPGRADE!
Solutions if you wan't to keep AOL.
1. There should be a version of AOL 5.0 on your CD. Upgrade!? to verion 5
for email.
2. Use AOL on line email.
I'll be looking for a new ISP and web host.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OOPs a little slip of the mouse... Have no fear though I got it sent to the
correct person.
your humble html monitor
damon
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No details on the EV button that I can find (yet), but here are a couple
references to additional information (in my opinion, the
www.toyota.com/newprius site is horribly unfriendly). I'd sure like to know
how many wh are in the batteries. I wonder if one could add more...
Apparently a 50kw motor operating at up to 500v - might be powerful enough
to run universally without the gas engine.
http://www.corolland.com/prius/gen2.html - moderate length text with pricing
and many details, but few specs.
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/previews,view,Toyota.spy?artid=13861&pg=
5 - summary of some specs; article on preceeding pages.
And also this, from Yahoo Groups
--------------------
Date: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:03 pm
Subject: EV-only Button?
Several UK Prius owners were invited by Toyota to
preview the 2004 model today in Wimbledon (South
London). Reports are posted on Prius UK and on
Prius Technical Stuff, with pics in 2004-Prius
archive.
While there I discovered that 2004 has an
EV-mode button that allegedly prevents the ICE
from starting. Was this already known here?
----------
Peri Hartman
Seattle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
> > According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius
> > Japanese version and the German version it has an EV
> > button that will use electric power as long as possible,
> > which will probably be ~5 miles. This is separate from
> > the "start" button.
>
> Keith -
>
> Cool, if true! Bizarre that they don't mention this anywhere on the
> Toyota Prius web pages. If I can confirm this for the U.S. version, I
> may have to upgrade my Prius after all. I wish I could trust my dealer,
> but when I bought my Prius, he told me that a navigation system was
> built into the Prius, and required only calling an 800 number to
> activate it. Turns out the 2001 Prius doesn't have a navigation system,
> despite the buttons, and can't ever get one, either. I just wish I'd
> gotten his promise in writing.
>
> > Prior to 2004, there is no EV button, but EV mode can
> > be accomplished by driving in reverse. ;-)
>
> Don't laugh too much. I used to live in a small hill, and during the
> first few months when I was trying to maximize my mileage, I'd back up
> the hill to avoid having to use gas. That way, when I powered the Prius
> up the next day, the battery would tend to be depleted, which is
> important since for the first 5 minutes or so when a Prius is started
> up, the gas engine runs to warm up the catalic converters which give the
> Prius its SULEV rating.
>
> > If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's
> > the point of the engine?
>
> Audrey, the point of the engine is that you might want to go visit your
> mom in another state, and you're not going to be doing in that in a pure
> electric, because the infrastructure for swapping out depleted batteries
> doesn't exist yet (in the U.S.)
>
> What we need now is a way to plug it in. This shouldn't be that hard to
> hack in, electrically speaking....
>
> jorg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Aubrey Wilder
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:23 AM
> To: EV List
> Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
>
> If the Prius could be run in all electric mode, then what's the point of
> the
> engine? If I could run it in all electric, I'd probably do that and
> never
> use the ICE. In that case, it would be a total waste of money for all
> the
> unneeded parts, and I couldn't fix it myself should it ever need it. I
> think I'll still with a pure EV.
>
> No offense intended to hybrid lovers, it's just not for me...
> Aubrey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Keith Vogt
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:33 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
>
> According to people that have been inside the 2004 Prius Japanese
> version and the German version it has an EV button that will use
> electric power as long as possible, which will probably be ~5 miles.
> This is separate from the "start" button.
>
> Prior to 2004, there is no EV button, but EV mode can be accomplished by
> driving in reverse. ;-)
>
>
> > What is this EV button you speak of? If you're referring to the
> "Start"
> > button, I can assure you the first time you press it, the gas engine
> > comes to life. There is no way I know of, on the current Prius, of
> > which I own one, to force the gas engine to be off, other than running
> > out of gas. I have never seen any indication that the new Prius is
> > different in this regard.
> >
> > Also the NiMH battery in the Prius won't take you more than 5 or 6
> miles
> > by itself. I know this from first-hand experience.
> >
> > jorg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Keith Vogt
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 8:53 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
> >
> > The '04 Toyota Prius has an EV button, will be in production within 90
> > days and its $20,000. So, the "big automakers" now produce an EV that
> is
> > actually affordable.
> >
> > www.toyota.com/newprius
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using the 90Ah Thunder Sky cells. Part of the group order that
Victor helped organize a few months ago. As for how I chose them...
These are the first li-ions I've seen which are actually in a
(relatively) reasonable price range. As for their actual performance on
the road, that remains to be seen.
-Bryan Avery
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Peter Eckhoff
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 5:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: plated bus bars?
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> Whose LiIon cells are you using. How did you going about choosing
them
> over
> the others that are on the market?
>
> Peter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'EV Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:35 AM
> Subject: plated bus bars?
>
>
> > All this talk about battery box material and corrosion from matching
> > dissimilar metals together has got me wondering if I need to rethink
> > some of my other plans. My current plan for battery interconnects
is to
> > connect the li-ion cells within each strapped together bundle using
a
> > combination of solid copper bus bar and aluminum heat sink. For
> > something like this, should the copper be tin-plated (or dipped in
> > solder, etc.) or is that overkill?
> >
> >
> >
> > -Bryan Avery
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
