EV Digest 3248
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Heating pads appropriate for batteries?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) re: Distributed systems (was Re: Possible LiOH charging thoughts)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Heating pads appropriate for batteries?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Prius Conversion
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Prius Conversion
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: heated seat cushion source?
by Andrew in Ann Arbor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cold and old. Was: Mike's electric adventure
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Prius Conversion
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Heating pads appropriate for batteries?
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ultracapacitors
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Prius Conversion
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prius Conversion
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Prius Conversion
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) My Sevcon bit the dust...ah water...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: fu...ing tree hugger. (Anti-Vandle) (Prius EV-Mode)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: OT: Diesel Question
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Distributed systems (was Re: Possible LiOH charging thoughts)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Prius Conversion
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: OT-CFs, Was: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Prius Conversion
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: temporary EV heat
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Mike's electric adventure
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Solar Power For AC
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Mobil Evaporative coolers (was RE: Solar Power For AC)
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
While browsing for heating sources for batteries, I came across lots of heating pads
for keeping reptiles toasty warm...
https://secure.ioncart.net/beanfarm/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=6
These pads state that they stay between 65-95 F...low wattage. Come in various sizes
and are reasonably priced.
Has anyone tried any of these with batteries?
Thanks
Chuck
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Modular ideas are intriquing. ( or to over build in 1200 easy parts)
Here is a wacky idea for charging : All sides of all batteries are fed
with a signwave. The phase shift would allow from 0 to 15 volts of charge.
When the board says it is full.( temp/current/ah sensor or whatever),
the phase shift would be selected such as to cause 0 amps. when all
boards report back 0 amps +- a tolerence or a few remain longer than the
limit it shuts off and communicates battery statuses.
Any way, anyone used these modules yet ? http://www.uclinux.org/ucsimm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your link does not work. It pulls up an empty search form at The Bean Farm.
If you tell us what search criteria to use, then we can pull up the same
data.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:06 PM
Subject: Heating pads appropriate for batteries?
>
> While browsing for heating sources for batteries, I came across lots of
heating pads for keeping reptiles toasty warm...
>
> https://secure.ioncart.net/beanfarm/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=6
>
> These pads state that they stay between 65-95 F...low wattage. Come in
various sizes and are reasonably priced.
>
> Has anyone tried any of these with batteries?
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:13 PM
> Subject: RE: Prius Conversion
>
> > John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> >
> > > At 09:04 AM 12/25/2003 -0800, Rich Rudman wrote:
> > > >Nice battery but 50 amp draws over heat it, and the proper charge
> > > >algorithm has not been established.
> > >
> > > Depends on what you mean by "overheat". An hour at 56A
> > > brought my cells up to the 50-62 deg C range. Since they
> > > are rated to 70 deg C, this doesn't seem to be over temp.
> >
> > I believe Rich was referring to the Evercel NiZn, not your Thundersky
> > Li-Ion.
>
> Not any NiZn I've ever seen.
>
> A hour at 56A and they're still mostly cold.
>
> >From everything I've heard and know, sounds to me like the ThunderSkys. (Not
> to mention the battery pack in my cell phone ;-))
>
> S.
Man I am not keeping up with this thread.
Didn't Lee hart get some really hot Thunder Sky's at a paltry 30 amp
load???
Evercells don't even make much of a whimper at 250 amp draws.
>From what the Lion crowd has said, we won't be getting motor current
draws of hundreds of amps with TSkys' But with enough in Parallel or a
high enough voltage, and a controller designed to do big volts and big
amps, still regulated the battery side to low amps, Maybe the TSkys just
might beable to push a AC Honda or a light Sparrow.
I have seen no data that says the TSkys can get the job done.
John, Victor????? What have I missed ?
What the TSkys have made is a need for a hybrid battery pack having 500+
amp PbLas doing the mass movement and TSkys doing to Range supply.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
>
> > > I believe Rich was referring to the Evercel NiZn, not your
> > > Thundersky Li-Ion.
> >
> > Not any NiZn I've ever seen.
> >
> > A hour at 56A and they're still mostly cold.
>
> Unfortunately, you haven't seen all NiZn, not even Evercel's ;^>
>
Umm yea Evercells do heat up. We did a 350 amp draw test. I can't
publish the data. We had to stop the test, because we exeeded our temp
limits.
Man I wish the Lions and NiZn stuff made amps like the Exide 34XCD do!!!
That IS published!.
There are better Evercells in the pipe line. Maybe we will get to
publish that data.
Joe is abusing a MB80, He just handed me the link, and I just OKed it on
my site.
Joe is a bit under the weather right now, the link was not public about
10 minutes ago...
Joe???
Hacking in the shop tonight????
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Subject: Re: temporary EV heat
From: "Chuck Hursch" chursch(a-t)yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:31:22 -0800
For being on the cheap, you could have the cheap heater for the
windshield, and then a heated seat pad (JC Whitney, 4A, 50W,
~$35, takes a minute or two for noticeable heat) for your tush.
Chuck
Can you give me any more information on the seat cushion?
A quick search of the JC Whitney site only came up with one product:
<http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=7821&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&storeId=10101>
which includes "magnetic pulsating massage" for $44.
Is this what you have?
Thanks
--
Andrew in Ann Arbor
technology is the answer, what was the question?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> Michael Hoskinson wrote:
>
> > Now I wonder if
> > the emeter was playing tricks on me, with overestimaton of the Ah
> > consumed because I did not change the Peukert exponent.
>
> Actually, the E-meter records Ah consumed (i.e. removed from the pack)
> faithfully, but 'discounts' Ah returned to it during charge according to
> the charge efficiency factor. That is, if you remove 10Ah, the E-meter
> will indicate -10Ah, but if you return 10Ah and your E-meter is using a
> charge efficiency factor of 0.90, then the E-meter will indicate -1Ah
> (-10Ah + 10Ah*0.9), not 0Ah.
>
> The Peukert exponent is used by the E-meter during discharge, but only
> affects the 'fuel guage' accuracy.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
This is why us pure ist use only KwHr on any meters.
And the KwHr counter on a Link 10 aka E-meter is NON filtered.
The Ahr is very filtered and adjusted for the average Joe Marine owner.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:34 PM 12/29/2003 -0800, Rich Rudman wrote:
I have seen no data that says the TSkys can get the job done.
John, Victor????? What have I missed ?
Not a lot. I've been doing a bunch of cell testing. An hour at 40A brings
the cells up to 50-60 deg C. (still within operating temp range.) I
haven't figured out a good way to put more than a 40A load on them for
testing yet. (Probably should buy another water heater element or two...)
I'm really HOPING they work, but I don't have any data to prove it yet. I
think they will be marginal in my Sparrow, as the current draws may exceed
their useful output range (which is well below their rated output).
What the TSkys have made is a need for a hybrid battery pack having 500+
amp PbLas doing the mass movement and TSkys doing to Range supply.
That would be really nice for me, but I have VERY LITTLE extra space around
the TS cells.
Anyone have some D-cell PBA's that will do 200A?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You must search for "Ultratherm" or "heat tape" to see the stuff.
They also sell several on/off and proportional control units for up
to 1500W (!) AC power of course. It's conceptually similar to the
electrically heated home floor pads, only these are much thinner
(like Victor's, which are 4 ohms or 36W per ~13x6" unit). It is hard
to tell how bulky the connections are, or are not.
The watts per square inch is pretty low, but you could squeeze 20
watts under a 7x10" battery. Much better than nothing, but you best
have well insulated boxes.
The heat "tape" may not be self-adhesive, though it may not need a
good thermal bond to the heated mass at its low power density.
Uh, no I haven't tried them to answer your question...
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> While browsing for heating sources for batteries, I came across
lots of heating pads for keeping reptiles toasty warm...
>
> https://secure.ioncart.net/beanfarm/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=6
>
> These pads state that they stay between 65-95 F...low wattage.
Come in various sizes and are reasonably priced.
>
> Has anyone tried any of these with batteries?
> Thanks
> Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> Gary Graunke wrote:
>
> > I matched the Maxell 2600 vs Hawker Genesis 13AH.
>
> > The specific power of the Hawker, discharging to 1.75 Volts
> > per cell, was 240 w/kg, vs 504 w/kg for the ultracap. So the
> > ultracap has over twice the power per weight.
>
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you are looking at peak power
> out of the Hawker, then you aren't looking at a 1.75Vpc endpoint, but
> something lower. At 1.67Vpc they are up to 264W/kg (2min discharge
> rate), so the ultracap is 'almost' twice the power per weight, not
> 'over'. ;^>
>
> > So for my application, the ultracaps would be lighter but
> > take up more space. They could get me off to a fantastic
> > start (great for drag racing), but I need a bit more
> > sustained energy to climb hills in my area.
>
> I believe that the only benefit you would see performance-wise would be
> due to the weight savings of the ultracaps since even the Hawkers are
> capable of delivering more power than your inverter can take advantage
> of.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
all you nail biters and slide rule burners...
Also need to keep in mind that the Hawkers can be drawn down to 1 volt a
cell for about 10 seconds... Drasticly changing any math that makes
Maxell's stuff look even close to the power to weight that Good old Lead
can belt out.
Also you have a LOT of cell to cell issues with the ultra caps, these
all have to be engineered out, and taken not of.
There are other Caps that are about 10x the power to weight of the
Maxells.
These get close to making it happen.
They also are a single can Cap that can go from 0 volts to full voltage
and have NO cell to cell issues.
NO I can't say who.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I am on line.
I got the 486 running the pack cycler and it has gone over an hour since the
last crash. I think I got the recovery formula figured out so the software
does not just STOP and play dead. Depending on where in the data packet the
link error occurs, the PFC-20 power stage can do some strange things. The
last packet error made the CRT monitor turn about 10 degrees clockwise and
jitter horizontally. Very strange. Most of the packet errors occur when the
10 kW heater on the same wire from the breaker panel cycles on or off.
I am testing the pack cycler with the MB100 while the battery cycler runs
the MB80 up and down. Running a PFC-20 with a single MB100 is not the best
use of the charger. The charger is intended to put 5000 watts into a 360
volt battery bank off 240 VAC put it puts a paltry 60 watts into the MB100
during the 4 amp overcharge phase. The cooling fans never even come off
idle. You need to drive Goldie over to do a pack cycle on it. We can run it
up and back down in a few hours and see what capacity your pack makes. If we
watch the undervoltage LEDs on the Mk 2 regulators, we can abort the
discharge when the first module goes under your preset limit.
Yes, I can put the link on the download page tonight. The cycler is running
off the 486 and the browser does not cause errors anymore.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: Prius Conversion
> Roger Stockton wrote:
> >
> > Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
> >
> > > > I believe Rich was referring to the Evercel NiZn, not your
> > > > Thundersky Li-Ion.
> > >
> > > Not any NiZn I've ever seen.
> > >
> > > A hour at 56A and they're still mostly cold.
> >
> > Unfortunately, you haven't seen all NiZn, not even Evercel's ;^>
> >
>
> Umm yea Evercells do heat up. We did a 350 amp draw test. I can't
> publish the data. We had to stop the test, because we exeeded our temp
> limits.
>
> Man I wish the Lions and NiZn stuff made amps like the Exide 34XCD do!!!
> That IS published!.
>
> There are better Evercells in the pipe line. Maybe we will get to
> publish that data.
> Joe is abusing a MB80, He just handed me the link, and I just OKed it on
> my site.
> Joe is a bit under the weather right now, the link was not public about
> 10 minutes ago...
>
> Joe???
> Hacking in the shop tonight????
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.hepi.com/scprod.htm
The D cells have a short circuit current of 400 amps.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Prius Conversion
> Anyone have some D-cell PBA's that will do 200A?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Rich Rudman wrote:
> There are better Evercells in the pipe line. Maybe we will get to
> publish that data.
How far out (if you're allowed to say)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was a big storm today in San Francisco and the road to the freeway was
flooded. I forded it and there was a little bucking but I made it across.
Seemed to run ok on the freeway but it did die later on. My wife was
driving at the time and it was obvious when the wipers stopped and later the
car died that it was the Sevcon. Between having it's positive output lose
and getting a dunk it is putting out 0 volts. Is it worth fixing or is a
185 dollar Vicor that will go up to 166v a better deal for 185 bucks. It
puts out 8 amps at 12v and is small. I checked the Sevcons fuse and it was
wet. I did go through 3 feet of water. The Rudman regs didn't fair well
either. 2 of three that had their lights on revived when I dried them but
I think one was fried somehow. It's green light is on all the time and I
don't feel like charging with it should there be just a little water
somewhere on it that the compressed air didn't get rid of. I don't even
know if Sevcon is still in business. When people say the electric motor can
take a dunking watch out for your other components. Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
I'm at the point in my conversion where I'm playing around with wires -
rewiring the vehicle. I'm making up a new wiring loom, and have reached a
list as follows:
Take it as read that fuses will be in appropriate locations.
1st part: "Automotive" wiring - staying with the wire colours and wiring
diagram of the original vehicle, less the items not needed (and plus some
items not originaly provided for).
1a) 'always on' items:
'Ignition' switch,
Headlights/sidelights/dash lights,
indicators & hazards,
interior light,
horn,
electric door locks and alarm,
'cigarette lighter' auxiliary power outlet,
Auxiliary battery,
Fuse panel,
1b) 'ignition' switch controlled items:
wipers / washer,
low brake fluid indicator,
low brake vacuum indicator,
Brake & reverse lights, & reverse beeper,
handbrake warning light,
electric heater control (contactors near traction pack),
fan control (plus additional external control from timer with heater),
radio & speakers,
tacho,
2nd part: EV auxiliary items - control for EV items plus instrumentation.
Throttle pot (twisted pair screened),
Throttle stop position switch,
controller auxiliary wiring (as per Otmars' Zilla wiring diagram),
Vacuum pump control switch,
Ammeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
voltmeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
3rd part: EV power items - control of these will be in loom, power cables
to be seperate as required.
Traction pack fusing and disconnects,
Controller and motor power cables,
Traction contactors and cables,
vacuum pump contactors and cable,
heater contactors and cable,
DC/DC converter,
Auxiliary control relays
charger interlocking
Not having power steering or aircon. What have I missed, what other items
should I allow for before re-taping the wiring loom?
Related is the behavior of various items. I have an 'ignition' switch that
is only off-on-start (no auxiliary position). I intend to have the start
initiating the Zilla, 'on' to allow the normal automotive things plus
vacuum pump.
Are there any wiring schematics for EVs on the 'net that I can access as a
guide? (please post or send me a link).
Thanks
James Massey
'78 Daihatsu cab/chassis under conversion.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to hear you were keyed, kinna like your idea to
just keep the scratches, who's going to key a keyed car?
David Dymaxion wrote:
Top ten ways to avoid getting the Prius keyed again:
10. Reverse the election
9. Put on a "Bush 2004" sticker
You may try installing a little video camera,
even a fake camera may do the trick. People
seem to behave when they think they are on video.
( Others will flash you, good either way ;)
L8r
Ryan
PS. getting closer the the 04 Prius EV mode top speed answer!!
I looks like MG1 used to be limited to 6,000 rpm's but will now
go faster, which will increases the old 42 mph EV-mode limit!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.biodiesel.org
http://www.westcentralsoy.com
http://www.VeggieVan.org
http://www.bio-beetle.com/
At 10:27 AM 12/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
That big diesel-electric bus got me thinking. Does anyone know where (or
if) the biodiesel or veggie oil groups are?
Christian Kocmick
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
"Then there's my wacko idea of a distributed motor controller. Each
battery gets a switching module that switches it onto the motor power
bus when needed..."
Not so wacko. Looks like this guy did it:
www.redrok.com/ev.htm
Calls it the batpack controler. Don't know if he took it beyond the
prototype stage. Earlier versions of the webpage had more pictures. It fit
in the palm of his hand. I'd love to see a comparison with one like this
using 12V blocks, and a more traditional approach. If it works out well,
I'd also like to see this developed into a high voltage motor controller
"kit" by someone. I'd do it, but while I understand the principles behind
it, I don't have the electronics expertise to design the thing, especially
the logic to check the packs and determine which is first in line to drop or
connect to.
IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try Hawker Cyclons. Those should do the trick.
-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Prius Conversion
At 09:34 PM 12/29/2003 -0800, Rich Rudman wrote:
>I have seen no data that says the TSkys can get the job done.
>
>John, Victor????? What have I missed ?
Not a lot. I've been doing a bunch of cell testing. An hour at 40A brings
the cells up to 50-60 deg C. (still within operating temp range.) I
haven't figured out a good way to put more than a 40A load on them for
testing yet. (Probably should buy another water heater element or two...)
I'm really HOPING they work, but I don't have any data to prove it yet. I
think they will be marginal in my Sparrow, as the current draws may exceed
their useful output range (which is well below their rated output).
>What the TSkys have made is a need for a hybrid battery pack having 500+
>amp PbLas doing the mass movement and TSkys doing to Range supply.
That would be really nice for me, but I have VERY LITTLE extra space around
the TS cells.
Anyone have some D-cell PBA's that will do 200A?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You will have some AC wiring, too. i.e. to the charger interlock relay and
the charger. Also, you could concievably at some point use the AC for
battery heating and/or preheating/precooling the interior. Put the AC wires
in a separate color loom for easy identification.
I separated the 12V, high power, and AC lines (all that I worked on,
anyway), and put each type in a separate color of loom. Makes
troubleshooting and ID easier, both for me and for those unfamiliar with the
car.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 2:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
Hi All
I'm at the point in my conversion where I'm playing around with wires -
rewiring the vehicle. I'm making up a new wiring loom, and have reached a
list as follows:
Take it as read that fuses will be in appropriate locations.
1st part: "Automotive" wiring - staying with the wire colours and wiring
diagram of the original vehicle, less the items not needed (and plus some
items not originaly provided for).
1a) 'always on' items:
'Ignition' switch,
Headlights/sidelights/dash lights,
indicators & hazards,
interior light,
horn,
electric door locks and alarm,
'cigarette lighter' auxiliary power outlet,
Auxiliary battery,
Fuse panel,
1b) 'ignition' switch controlled items:
wipers / washer,
low brake fluid indicator,
low brake vacuum indicator,
Brake & reverse lights, & reverse beeper,
handbrake warning light,
electric heater control (contactors near traction pack),
fan control (plus additional external control from timer with heater),
radio & speakers,
tacho,
2nd part: EV auxiliary items - control for EV items plus instrumentation.
Throttle pot (twisted pair screened),
Throttle stop position switch,
controller auxiliary wiring (as per Otmars' Zilla wiring diagram),
Vacuum pump control switch,
Ammeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
voltmeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
3rd part: EV power items - control of these will be in loom, power cables
to be seperate as required.
Traction pack fusing and disconnects,
Controller and motor power cables,
Traction contactors and cables,
vacuum pump contactors and cable,
heater contactors and cable,
DC/DC converter,
Auxiliary control relays
charger interlocking
Not having power steering or aircon. What have I missed, what other items
should I allow for before re-taping the wiring loom?
Related is the behavior of various items. I have an 'ignition' switch that
is only off-on-start (no auxiliary position). I intend to have the start
initiating the Zilla, 'on' to allow the normal automotive things plus
vacuum pump.
Are there any wiring schematics for EVs on the 'net that I can access as a
guide? (please post or send me a link).
Thanks
James Massey
'78 Daihatsu cab/chassis under conversion.
IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY
READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
I apologize. I lead the thread off topic on the capacitor / transformer
issue. That was just advice not to mess with that AC capacitor except
to replace it with the exact match if it was bad.
On the use of capacitors to filter the charging current, I am clueless.
But I do have some observations:
1) Pulse type chargers have been marketed for years for being kinder to
batteries, for repairing bad batteries, and for curing the common cold.
Lots of independent tests have been done including some by folks on this
list. I don't believe that pulse charging has ever been shown to harm a
battery, and while it may not be proven, it may do some good. An added
capacitor smoothes the normal raw pulsed DC output from a charger. This
would say no capacitor might be better.
2) In order to get smoothing at high charge currents, you would need a
huge capacitor. For weight and cost, I'd leave it off.
3) The end game is different though. The effect of a reasonable sized
capacitor would be an increase in average voltage during the final phase
of charging. This might help you if you are a little short on voltage.
So, my ignorant conclusion is that the output capacitor is better left
off unless you have a specific end game problem that you are trying to
correct. In that case, the best value can probably be calculated by
first doing some measurements during the actual end of charge phase to
get an idea of what needs to be corrected.
Please somebody who knows something help out David.
Thanks,
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
"was that brand by any chance "Commercial Electric" bought from
Home Despot?"
No, I've not used "Commercial Electric." The brand that I have had
problems with is probably the most common brand available around here,
"Lights of America" or "LOA."
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:04 PM 12/29/2003 -0800, Joe Smalley wrote:
http://www.hepi.com/scprod.htm
The D cells have a short circuit current of 400 amps.
Hmm, so it may be possible. With a little web searching, I found the
D-cell (2V @ 2.5AH) for $3.99 ea.
So all I would need is some kind of controller that would limit the current
draw from the LiIon pack to something around 65A continuous.
Wonder how hard that would be?
(This is using the idea that the PBA cells are always connected to the
drive controller, and the LiIon pack is used for cruising current, and to
recharge the PBA pack.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello James,
I design my wiring buss system in my EV with plenty of spare wire, with
sizes range from 18 to 4/0.
I used a industrial set screw interlocking track mounted terminal blocks
that can have over 100 wires connection. Source of supply is from General
Electric, Westinghouse, Square D and similar companies.
These terminal strips which can be constructed any number and any mixed
sizes are located under a dash panel, motor bay, and charger bay.
I enclosed all wires in either metal water proof conduit, one for each
voltage range of wires. I used some black split loom type, but I found that
the black flexible rib vacuum cleaner hose that matches the loom work good
for large sizes of 2 inches or more.
I look over my list of wiring circuits, in my design and layout manual, and
there may be some of the following you may want to add for future used.
Driving Lights
Fog Lights
Rear Fog
Electric Motor Cooling Fan
High Water Temperature (for electric hot water heaters)
Electric Motor Temperture
High Transmission Temperture (for automatic transmission)
Air Conditional Circuits
Air Conditional Radiator Cooling Fan
RADAR ( parking indicators or remote receivers)
On Board Charging Systems ( if in the future you add a FuelCell system and
want to monitor charging of batterys or/and supercapacitors.)
If in the future or now, if using a automatic transmission, than you will
need optional idle controls for parking or very slow speed.
My vehicle was tested with a 350 Automatic which was modified with racing
type lock-up, only lasted about 1000 miles in non-idle mode. Even some of
the new variable types did not work out in non-idle mode.
Also, a motor driven DC to DC and AC converter/invertor that can direct
driven off the motor by the motor shaft or by a intergrated unit that is
driven off the flywheel. My unit useds six wires that go from the motor bay
to dash to battery compartments.
Also, if you install some empty conduits, You can always pull in any
additional circuits you may need.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:36 AM
Subject: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
> Hi All
>
> I'm at the point in my conversion where I'm playing around with wires -
> rewiring the vehicle. I'm making up a new wiring loom, and have reached a
> list as follows:
>
> Take it as read that fuses will be in appropriate locations.
>
> 1st part: "Automotive" wiring - staying with the wire colours and wiring
> diagram of the original vehicle, less the items not needed (and plus some
> items not originaly provided for).
>
> 1a) 'always on' items:
> 'Ignition' switch,
> Headlights/sidelights/dash lights,
> indicators & hazards,
> interior light,
> horn,
> electric door locks and alarm,
> 'cigarette lighter' auxiliary power outlet,
> Auxiliary battery,
> Fuse panel,
>
> 1b) 'ignition' switch controlled items:
> wipers / washer,
> low brake fluid indicator,
> low brake vacuum indicator,
> Brake & reverse lights, & reverse beeper,
> handbrake warning light,
> electric heater control (contactors near traction pack),
> fan control (plus additional external control from timer with heater),
> radio & speakers,
> tacho,
>
> 2nd part: EV auxiliary items - control for EV items plus instrumentation.
>
> Throttle pot (twisted pair screened),
> Throttle stop position switch,
> controller auxiliary wiring (as per Otmars' Zilla wiring diagram),
> Vacuum pump control switch,
> Ammeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
> voltmeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
>
> 3rd part: EV power items - control of these will be in loom, power cables
> to be seperate as required.
>
> Traction pack fusing and disconnects,
> Controller and motor power cables,
> Traction contactors and cables,
> vacuum pump contactors and cable,
> heater contactors and cable,
> DC/DC converter,
> Auxiliary control relays
> charger interlocking
>
> Not having power steering or aircon. What have I missed, what other items
> should I allow for before re-taping the wiring loom?
>
> Related is the behavior of various items. I have an 'ignition' switch that
> is only off-on-start (no auxiliary position). I intend to have the start
> initiating the Zilla, 'on' to allow the normal automotive things plus
> vacuum pump.
>
> Are there any wiring schematics for EVs on the 'net that I can access as a
> guide? (please post or send me a link).
>
> Thanks
>
> James Massey
>
> '78 Daihatsu cab/chassis under conversion.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use a Widder electric vest, commonly found in motorcycle supply shops.
It has a two-pin plug and comes with a mating cable with on/off switch
that can either be hard-wired into the car or fitted with a plug for the
cigarette lighter outlet. The vest costs about $80 and keeps me very
warm, and draws a fraction of the power used by the ceramic heater.
For more temperature control, you can add something like a Heat-Troller
(http://www.warmnsafe.com/). I have always planned on adding one of
these to my car but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Ralph
Chuck Hursch writes:
>
> For being on the cheap, you could have the cheap heater for the
> windshield, and then a heated seat pad (JC Whitney, 4A, 50W,
> ~$35, takes a minute or two for noticeable heat) for your tush.
> Save the expensive (in watts) cabin heater for when you really
> need it. May have to be careful of overloading your cig lighter
> circuit with all this high power...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 12:29 PM
> Subject: Re: temporary EV heat
>
>
> > I bought one of those cheap heaters.
> > It makes lots of noise but it's good enough
> > to prevent fogging on the window.
> > It's not good for much else, including de-icing
> > the window. I did have problems with condensation
> > on the window from breathing, but don't count on it
> > to warm up the vehicle, dress warm!
> > Rod
> > --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Our local harbor frieght has a ceramic heater that
> > > can be placed on dash
> > > and plugged into cigarette lighter for $6.47.(reg
> > > $12.99 lol ) Just
> > > thought I'd mention it for those who need something
> > > NOW.
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Second: What kind of shape are the Hawkers in? Cold will affect them,
> too, especially as they approach dead. But, it these are old batteries
> that have developed higher internal resistance, they might be unusable
> at high currents even if warm. And, all it takes is one 'stinker' to
> restrict the power of the whole string.
Try a couple of 100amp charge cycles. On Optimas I've seen a 100% increase
in capacity after one cycle if the battery has become 'lazy'.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sunil,
You didn't provide enough details to properly answer this question, but
I'll make some assumptions and try to answer it.
Assumptions:
1) you want to provide AC for a car sized vehicle
2) you want to power the AC only with solar cells carried on the vehicle
Answer: Can't really be done. An automotive AC requires roughly 3kw of
power (driving down the road at 50 mph requires approx 10KW). A 3KW
solar array is about 13 feet wide by 20 feet long. That's a bit bigger
than the top of your average car (approx 5x10).
You could mount the array on your garage roof and store the energy for
the AC in batteries, but if you are going to do that then you might as
well store the energy in your main battery pack.
If you live in a very dry climate you might look into using an
evaporative cooling system (dripping water over a fibrous mat and
drawing air through it), these only require a perhaps a 100 watts to
operate and could easily be powered by a single solar panel. Of course
you have to keep replenishing the water and they only work when the
humidity is low.
I live in Arizona and this is the only kind of cooling my house has. It
works great here. They call them "Swamp Coolers" here.
Another option is to use a cooler full of crushed ice and draw air
though that. Making the ice gets kind of expensive though (relatively
speaking).
On Wed, 2003-12-24 at 20:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Dear Bill,
> I am going to send you a digital image of my Suzuki EV. Can any one tell me
> in the mean time how to provide a seperate solar charged supply to the Air
> Conditioner. I am not an engineer, but a lawyer by profession.
>
> Sunil
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have searched for mobil evaporative coolers and have been unable to find one that
will work off of 12V DC (I did find a story about one designed into an old (late-
40's) ice, but that is it.
Does anyone the availablity of one of these.
If not, I may have to design one on my own. Should be fairly straight forward, a
pump, a fan and a little plastic cooler perhaps....
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:23 AM
To: EV
Subject: Re: Solar Power For AC
Hi Sunil,
You didn't provide enough details to properly answer this question, but
I'll make some assumptions and try to answer it.
Assumptions:
1) you want to provide AC for a car sized vehicle
2) you want to power the AC only with solar cells carried on the vehicle
Answer: Can't really be done. An automotive AC requires roughly 3kw of
power (driving down the road at 50 mph requires approx 10KW). A 3KW
solar array is about 13 feet wide by 20 feet long. That's a bit bigger
than the top of your average car (approx 5x10).
You could mount the array on your garage roof and store the energy for
the AC in batteries, but if you are going to do that then you might as
well store the energy in your main battery pack.
If you live in a very dry climate you might look into using an
evaporative cooling system (dripping water over a fibrous mat and
drawing air through it), these only require a perhaps a 100 watts to
operate and could easily be powered by a single solar panel. Of course
you have to keep replenishing the water and they only work when the
humidity is low.
I live in Arizona and this is the only kind of cooling my house has. It
works great here. They call them "Swamp Coolers" here.
Another option is to use a cooler full of crushed ice and draw air
though that. Making the ice gets kind of expensive though (relatively
speaking).
On Wed, 2003-12-24 at 20:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Dear Bill,
> I am going to send you a digital image of my Suzuki EV. Can any one tell me
> in the mean time how to provide a seperate solar charged supply to the Air
> Conditioner. I am not an engineer, but a lawyer by profession.
>
> Sunil
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
