EV Digest 3249
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Magnecharge EV1 Connectors For Sale
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Mobil Evaporative coolers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Exide 34XCD vs. other chemistries. Low performance ev's vs. Blue Meanie class
vehicles.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Mobil Evaporative coolers (was RE: Solar Power For AC)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: My Sevcon bit the dust...ah water...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT: Diesel Question
by Juergen Weichert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Distributed systems (was Re: Possible LiOH charging thoughts)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: My Sevcon bit the dust...ah water...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Mike's electric adventure
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prius Conversion
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Mobil Evaporative Coolers
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Prius Conversion
by seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Mobil Evaporative coolers (was RE: Solar Power For AC)
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Rav4 EV's for rent near Boston, MA
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) High Current or High Voltage?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Mike's electric adventure
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: heated seat cushion source?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Rav4 EV's for rent near Boston, MA
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: High Current or High Voltage?
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: High Current or High Voltage?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Mobile Evaporative coolers (was RE: Solar Power For AC)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am posting this for someone not on the list. If you are interested,
please contact him directly:
>I have 17 pieces of GM part number 27006153 that I am trying to find a
>home for. Can you help?
>Thanks
>Eric Paulsen
>417-766-7769
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lynn,
If you can't find something for 12v dc, you can use the cig lighter adaptor
to plug in an inverter, converting 12v dc back to 110vac to run an ice chest
or something.
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Adams, Lynn
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Mobil Evaporative coolers (was RE: Solar Power For AC)
I have searched for mobil evaporative coolers and have been unable to find
one that will work off of 12V DC (I did find a story about one designed into
an old (late- 40's) ice, but that is it.
Does anyone the availablity of one of these.
If not, I may have to design one on my own. Should be fairly straight
forward, a pump, a fan and a little plastic cooler perhaps....
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seems that a battery for a Waylandesque vehicle vs. a 1221 sqeeler can be
much different. Certainly I could use the Exides but at a maximum of 400
amps it seems to me the evercells would be perfect for my needs. I will
likely have two strings. 800 pound battery weight. 120v. Each string will
be 400 pounds and only draw 200 amps max. at any time. This should increase
my range to over 100 miles. With over 1200 pounds of lead in the Aspire it
is a little unweildy. It takes hills ok but I did smoke one controller when
I loaded the car full and that means an Aspire weighing near 4000 pounds.
Losing 400 pounds will do wonders for performance and allow the poor little
1221 to no have to work so hard. When might these new Evercells in the
pipeline be available? If I went with excides my range would be 50 miles if
if I went with 800 pound two string pack(aprox) I'd like to keep the range
up if possible. The price is attractive though. Hmmmm maybe stiffer
springs and a new controller & 30 Excides. I'd have a new defination of
squeeler. 180v system....He He......Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lynn Adams wrote:
> I have searched for mobil evaporative coolers and have been
> unable to find one that will work off of 12V DC (I did find a
> story about one designed into an old (late- 40's) ice, but that is it.
>
> Does anyone the availablity of one of these.
Try http://www.swampy.net/.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everything dried out and is working. Try that with a gas car. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:38 PM
Subject: My Sevcon bit the dust...ah water...
> There was a big storm today in San Francisco and the road to the freeway
was
> flooded. I forded it and there was a little bucking but I made it across.
> Seemed to run ok on the freeway but it did die later on. My wife was
> driving at the time and it was obvious when the wipers stopped and later
the
> car died that it was the Sevcon. Between having it's positive output lose
> and getting a dunk it is putting out 0 volts. Is it worth fixing or is a
> 185 dollar Vicor that will go up to 166v a better deal for 185 bucks. It
> puts out 8 amps at 12v and is small. I checked the Sevcons fuse and it
was
> wet. I did go through 3 feet of water. The Rudman regs didn't fair well
> either. 2 of three that had their lights on revived when I dried them
but
> I think one was fried somehow. It's green light is on all the time and I
> don't feel like charging with it should there be just a little water
> somewhere on it that the compressed air didn't get rid of. I don't even
> know if Sevcon is still in business. When people say the electric motor
can
> take a dunking watch out for your other components. Lawrence Rhodes.....
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also http://tharsis.ubertechnique.com/vette/
Juergen
At 01:46 AM 12/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
>http://www.biodiesel.org
>http://www.westcentralsoy.com
>http://www.VeggieVan.org
>http://www.bio-beetle.com/
>
>At 10:27 AM 12/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>That big diesel-electric bus got me thinking. Does anyone know where (or
>>if) the biodiesel or veggie oil groups are?
>>
>>Christian Kocmick
>
>
>Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
>Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
>Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
---------------------------
Juergen Weichert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(613) 746-7685
Acclivity Solutions
More than just Web design...
www.acclivity.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
> Then there's my wacko idea of a distributed motor controller. Each
> battery gets a switching module that switches it onto the motor power
> bus when needed.
David Brandt wrote:
> Not so wacko. Looks like this guy did it: www.redrok.com/ev.htm
> I'd love to see a comparison with one like this using 12V blocks,
> and a more traditional approach.
Yes, it *is* an interesting approach.
All things being equal, it will always be smaller, lighter, cheaper,
easier, more efficiency, more reliable etc. to build a single large
controller than many small ones.
However, things are rarely equal. The many small controllers might be
mass-produced, while the single large one is hand-made. The small
controllers might be designed for some mass-market that allows millions
to be spent on research and development and custom chips, while the
single large one has to use off-the-shelf parts. The reliability
problems of many small controller could be offset by making the system
so it keeps working even when one or more of them fail.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> car died... it was the Sevcon. Between having its positive output
> loose and getting a dunk it is putting out 0 volts. Is it worth
> fixing or is a 185 dollar Vicor that will go up to 166v a better
> deal... The Rudman regs didn't fair well either.
Electronics and water do not mix! You'll notice that all the electronics
in a normal car are well protected from water. Given the auto companies
'pinch every last penny' attitude, you *know* they wouldn't package them
this well if they didn't have to.
The Sevcon and Rudman regulators have no environmental protection. They
depend on YOU to mount them where they will NEVER get wet. Not just from
submersion; no condensation or occasional splashing is allowed, either.
There isn't much of a problem if the electronic device isn't powered
when it gets dunked. People water-wash circuit boards all the time. The
water itself isn't what does the damage; it is the current that flows in
unpredictable ways when the water (especially dirty water) creates
random partial short circuits all over the place. For example, a single
drop of water in the wrong place can create a path from a 120 volt input
to a 12 volt output.
The Sevcon is probably fixable, but it may be a challenge to find
someone to do it. Sevcon is still in business, but I don't know what
they would charge.
The Vicor modules are sealed, but that alone is no guarantee. They would
still die if water created a path from their high voltage input to their
output.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most battery manufacturers recommend pure DC for float applications. Most EV
batteries never see float conditions. To get pure DC requires a huge filter
capacitor or an active regulator. If you are not float charging the
batteries, the capacitor is a waste of time, weight and volume.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
> David,
>
> I apologize. I lead the thread off topic on the capacitor / transformer
> issue. That was just advice not to mess with that AC capacitor except
> to replace it with the exact match if it was bad.
>
> On the use of capacitors to filter the charging current, I am clueless.
> But I do have some observations:
>
> 1) Pulse type chargers have been marketed for years for being kinder to
> batteries, for repairing bad batteries, and for curing the common cold.
> Lots of independent tests have been done including some by folks on this
> list. I don't believe that pulse charging has ever been shown to harm a
> battery, and while it may not be proven, it may do some good. An added
> capacitor smoothes the normal raw pulsed DC output from a charger. This
> would say no capacitor might be better.
>
> 2) In order to get smoothing at high charge currents, you would need a
> huge capacitor. For weight and cost, I'd leave it off.
>
> 3) The end game is different though. The effect of a reasonable sized
> capacitor would be an increase in average voltage during the final phase
> of charging. This might help you if you are a little short on voltage.
>
> So, my ignorant conclusion is that the output capacitor is better left
> off unless you have a specific end game problem that you are trying to
> correct. In that case, the best value can probably be calculated by
> first doing some measurements during the actual end of charge phase to
> get an idea of what needs to be corrected.
>
> Please somebody who knows something help out David.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Sonneshein engineer called it 'storage latency'.
I found if you do one slow cycle (c/20) and then faster ones (c/5,c/2,c/1)
they wake up rather quickly.
My regular cycler system has a 50 amp limit and does one battery at a time.
I have others that will go out to 500 amps that I haul out to use
occasionally, but are not being used daily for long term tests.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Mike's electric adventure
>
>
> > Second: What kind of shape are the Hawkers in? Cold will affect them,
> > too, especially as they approach dead. But, it these are old batteries
> > that have developed higher internal resistance, they might be unusable
> > at high currents even if warm. And, all it takes is one 'stinker' to
> > restrict the power of the whole string.
>
> Try a couple of 100amp charge cycles. On Optimas I've seen a 100% increase
> in capacity after one cycle if the battery has become 'lazy'.
>
> Paul Compton
> www.sciroccoev.co.uk
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Put the 12 volt, charger AC and battery DC cables in different (color)
conduit or looms. It makes them distinct and immediately identifiable.
Put fuses at the source of power and don't put the unfused portion inside
the loom or conduit. All fuses should be mounted so they will stay dry and
won't rattle.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 12:36 AM
Subject: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
> Hi All
>
> I'm at the point in my conversion where I'm playing around with wires -
> rewiring the vehicle. I'm making up a new wiring loom, and have reached a
> list as follows:
>
> Take it as read that fuses will be in appropriate locations.
>
> 1st part: "Automotive" wiring - staying with the wire colours and wiring
> diagram of the original vehicle, less the items not needed (and plus some
> items not originaly provided for).
>
> 1a) 'always on' items:
> 'Ignition' switch,
> Headlights/sidelights/dash lights,
> indicators & hazards,
> interior light,
> horn,
> electric door locks and alarm,
> 'cigarette lighter' auxiliary power outlet,
> Auxiliary battery,
> Fuse panel,
>
> 1b) 'ignition' switch controlled items:
> wipers / washer,
> low brake fluid indicator,
> low brake vacuum indicator,
> Brake & reverse lights, & reverse beeper,
> handbrake warning light,
> electric heater control (contactors near traction pack),
> fan control (plus additional external control from timer with heater),
> radio & speakers,
> tacho,
>
> 2nd part: EV auxiliary items - control for EV items plus instrumentation.
>
> Throttle pot (twisted pair screened),
> Throttle stop position switch,
> controller auxiliary wiring (as per Otmars' Zilla wiring diagram),
> Vacuum pump control switch,
> Ammeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
> voltmeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
>
> 3rd part: EV power items - control of these will be in loom, power cables
> to be seperate as required.
>
> Traction pack fusing and disconnects,
> Controller and motor power cables,
> Traction contactors and cables,
> vacuum pump contactors and cable,
> heater contactors and cable,
> DC/DC converter,
> Auxiliary control relays
> charger interlocking
>
> Not having power steering or aircon. What have I missed, what other items
> should I allow for before re-taping the wiring loom?
>
> Related is the behavior of various items. I have an 'ignition' switch that
> is only off-on-start (no auxiliary position). I intend to have the start
> initiating the Zilla, 'on' to allow the normal automotive things plus
> vacuum pump.
>
> Are there any wiring schematics for EVs on the 'net that I can access as a
> guide? (please post or send me a link).
>
> Thanks
>
> James Massey
>
> '78 Daihatsu cab/chassis under conversion.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Derrick J Brashear wrote:
>
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > There are better Evercells in the pipe line. Maybe we will get to
> > publish that data.
>
> How far out (if you're allowed to say)?
Nope not allowed to say.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This car swamp cooler thread has brought back a few memories; forgive me if
I wax nostalgic for a moment (links included)
I have bought and sold quite a few of these when I was a regular vendor at
the Antique Auto, Corvette, and Porsche Swap Meet at the Los Angeles County
Fairgrounds back in the mid 80s, vintage hotrod magazines were my staple,
but also did a variety of parts. This swap meet is the largest event of its
type that I know of, they advertise it as being 7 and a half miles of parts
and they are not kidding.
The �in window� type of cooler is getting pretty rare, and some models are
expensive, but you can still find them. Also would be an easy one to
fabricate from scratch.
Links to a couple of those types-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33545&item=2451388209
http://www.btinternet.com/~carlvw/accessories.htm
My favorite ones were the big plastic box type, which were designed to sit
over the transmission hump on little metal stilts. I ran one of these in my
1962 motorhome for years. Worked especially well with ice. They came with
various brand names on them, but all pretty much looked like this one-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33545&item=2451390131
HTH
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
Updated!
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> Put the 12 volt, charger AC and battery DC cables in
> different (color) conduit or looms. It makes them distinct
> and immediately identifiable.
>
> Put fuses at the source of power and don't put the unfused
> portion inside the loom or conduit. All fuses should be
> mounted so they will stay dry and won't rattle.
Hi Joe,
I agree in general, but I also think it's worth following the
(apparently) accepted standard of making all high-voltage wiring orange.
This has been adopted by the major manufacturers on hybrids to help keep
service and emergency personnel safe. That means traction and AC wiring
should both be orange. Maybe add a stripe to the AC wiring?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the record: Short circuit implies zero power supplied outside the
battery. Assuming this, peak power should be ~200A at half rated
voltage (72V). I suspect that if you wired a 144V pack (or two) in
parallel, the internal resistances would balance such that with a 200A
battery limit, you would get about what you want without a real
controller. You might consider the E or J cell rather than two strings
of "D" cells
Seth
"John G. Lussmyer" wrote:
>
> At 10:04 PM 12/29/2003 -0800, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >http://www.hepi.com/scprod.htm
> >
> >The D cells have a short circuit current of 400 amps.
>
> Hmm, so it may be possible. With a little web searching, I found the
> D-cell (2V @ 2.5AH) for $3.99 ea.
> So all I would need is some kind of controller that would limit the current
> draw from the LiIon pack to something around 65A continuous.
> Wonder how hard that would be?
> (This is using the idea that the PBA cells are always connected to the
> drive controller, and the LiIon pack is used for cruising current, and to
> recharge the PBA pack.)
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agreed. I just suggested that the AC, traction pack DC and 12 volt accessory
wiring be in separate wiring ducts. Choice of color is up to the person
building the car. Standards are nice. It takes some of the decisions out of
the process.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (longish)
> Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> > Put the 12 volt, charger AC and battery DC cables in
> > different (color) conduit or looms. It makes them distinct
> > and immediately identifiable.
> >
> > Put fuses at the source of power and don't put the unfused
> > portion inside the loom or conduit. All fuses should be
> > mounted so they will stay dry and won't rattle.
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> I agree in general, but I also think it's worth following the
> (apparently) accepted standard of making all high-voltage wiring orange.
> This has been adopted by the major manufacturers on hybrids to help keep
> service and emergency personnel safe. That means traction and AC wiring
> should both be orange. Maybe add a stripe to the AC wiring?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lynn,
Check out how Sharkey did his evaporative cooling:
http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher7i.htm
Might need some modifications to work a little better, but you probably
already have all the stuff you need already on the car.
Tim
-------------
Subject: Mobil Evaporative coolers (was RE: Solar Power For AC)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:52:09 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I have searched for mobil evaporative coolers and have been unable to find
one
that will work off of 12V DC (I did find a story about one designed into an
old
(late- 40's) ice, but that is it.
Does anyone the availablity of one of these.
If not, I may have to design one on my own.� Should be fairly straight
forward,
a pump, a fan and a little plastic cooler perhaps....
_________________________________________________________________
Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access � limited
time only! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm a bit slow posting this, but I was surprised first in July to
discover that there is a Rav4-EV right near here in Boston. It is owned
by Zip Car, which is a station car program. They mostly use regular ICE
vehicles, but had the EV on display at the "Alt Wheels" festival. The
rep said that they check with the customer to make sure the planned use
is under 75 miles, so that when the customer gets lost or does an extra
errand they stay within the 100 mile battery range.
100 mile range... drool...
Then... I discovered that Tufts University had a Rav4-EV. Turns out to
be a *second* electric Zip Car available for renting. And according to
an article I found in the student newspaper, there may be 3 more around
campus (in addition to some NEV's that may be heading to Tufts, per news
wire items that Bruce posted).
So how is it that Toyota claimed Rav4-EV's could not be sold outside of
California since there wouldn't be any service support elsewhere, yet
here they are clear across the country? And how is it that these five
show up after the Rav4-EV's are no longer available (if they ever were
"available")? Grumble.
I may have to go for the $60 trial membership in Zip Car just so I can
drive the thing around for a day (normally $8.50/hr for members).
This also means there are now two private charging stations in rather
public locations... are those inductive or conductive?
The student newspaper article:
http://www.tuftsdaily.com/articleDisplay.jsp?a_id=2245
Pictures I took at the AltWheels festival:
http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/AltWheels2003
Picture of the Rav4EV at Tufts U (a rather prominent location at the top
of The Hill near West Hall for those who know the place):
http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/Tufts_Rav4EV.jpg
The Zip Car list of Boston area cars, including the 2 EV's (note the
Tufts car is listed twice as right on a town line):
http://www.zipcar.com/boston/find-cars
(and I have reports of an EV1 in use nearby by a GM employee, but that
may be in 'winter storage' for now...)
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My '91 Metro Convertible has turned out to be quite a fun project, it's
together and running and managing to get 26 miles per charge on it's 13 group
27TMX's. It really has great pickup, having only 760lbs of lead across the back
end over airspring bag-inserts. The Raptor 1200 has no problem pumping the
amps to the 8" ADC motor.
I just got my clean-air decals the other day and will commemorate them the
day or so after the car gets painted this spring.
The 13 group 27's arent cutting it in my grand-plan of being able to
commute from Vallejo to San Francisco daily (hence the H.O.V. stickers.) No great
surprise there, I had a feeling going into that choice of battery that they
maybe would be enough to get me going, but not enough to get me there. The
deciding factor at the time was price. So now that my feet are wet in the EV pool,
I'm liking it and ready to do more that around town and a few short bursts onto
the freeway.
My real question is: I have the room and weight-handling to do either 120
volts of US145's---giving me 29.2 Kw -- OR -- 156 volts of US2200's ---
giving me 35.1Kw.
Hmmm... twenty 145's or twenty-six 2200's ???
Wich way to go?
Vince B
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Aha!, some #s to compare with...
Rabbit with 96V pack of 6V floodeds (US2300/US125 or Trojan
T125s). Recently cycled, pack temperature say 70degF.:
Up steep hill to return to apt after short trip on the flats of
25 mph driving (say four or five miles):
Pack sags to ~79V or about 4.9V/6V battery or 9.8V/12V. Amp draw
through the battery string is about 350A, 1st gear at about
17-18mph. Curtis 1231C, which I suspect is close to 100% duty
cycle on this hill.
Crusing down a flat road at about 25-30mph after recently coming
down my hill: about 97-98V on the string (~6.1V/6V battery or
12.2V/12V). About a 30-50A draw (it can really vary with even
the slightest upgrade/downgrade). 2nd gear.
Cruising the freeway at 55-60mph, pack has maybe five to ten
miles on it: string is at about 90-92V (5.6-5.7V/6V battery or
11.2-11.4V/12V) with about a 100-125A draw. 3rd gear.
180+A and stay at 12V or better - wish I had batteries like that!
One of the MASSES
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Mike's electric adventure
> > First: How cold are the batteries? Floodeds will sag from 96v
to 84v at
> > 300 amps even when warm. If they are cold, it will be even
worse.
>
> Really? This works out (in 12 volt land) to a 1.5 volt drop for
each 12
> volt battery. Assuming that the C/1hr rate rating for a T105 is
about
> 100 amps then this is at a draw of 3C/1hr. In my-pack-land (300
volt,
> 52ah at c/10, 40ah at c/1) that would translate to a drop of
37.5 volts
> or 262.50 volts at 120 amps.
>
> I'd consider that a *very* low pack, time to be home quick.
Question for
> the masses: What is your typical voltage while motoring (reply
with
> volts and amps related to battery type and capacity)? when cold
and
> warm? I'm *really* curious for other people's real world data.
Do
> flooded batteries really drop this low?
>
> At full charge, my batteries can put out 90amps min when at
0degrees C
> and 180+amps at nice and warm temps without dropping below 12
volts per
> battery (300 volts). 52ah AGM pack.
>
> Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Andrew in Ann Arbor wrote:
> >>For being on the cheap, you could have the cheap heater for
the
> >>windshield, and then a heated seat pad (JC Whitney, 4A, 50W,
> >>~$35, takes a minute or two for noticeable heat) for your
tush.
>
> Chuck
> Can you give me any more information on the seat cushion?
> A quick search of the JC Whitney site only came up with one
product:
>
<http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDispla
y?productId=7821&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&storeId=10101>
> which includes "magnetic pulsating massage" for $44.
> Is this what you have?
No I don't think that's what I have. I also tried a quick search
at JC Whitney, and I think they may not carry what I have
anymore. However, I typed "heated seat cushion" (without quotes)
into google, and a bunch of links came up.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.12vautotech.com/winterseat.html&sa=l&ai=A1BE8wwf8_UsvJYoqgNZoxWJC3CKgFgY1OTEkpmoYLIAkOBA8E6QACIAmWAAAAAAA
is one of them, although mine doesn't have that big hump at the
lower back. Price is good though; don't see any power draw
indication.
http://www.safehomeproducts.com/SHP/ES/12V_Heat_Products.asp:
The Wagan looks just about like mine, although I do not have
switchable levels of heat.
There was over in the sponsored links section of the google page
a link for a microwaveable seat cushion that would stay warm for
eight hours, this from DrivingComfort.com, but when I went there
out of curiosity, it did not find entry for the cushion.
There's a lot of stuff out there. You can probably find
something pretty easy.
Chuck
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--- Begin Message ---
*wow* I have always wanted to drive a modern factory EV. I'm going up
there in a few weeks; will have to get it.
Thank you!
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
I'm a bit slow posting this, but I was surprised first in July to
discover that there is a Rav4-EV right near here in Boston. It is owned
by Zip Car, which is a station car program. They mostly use regular ICE
vehicles, but had the EV on display at the "Alt Wheels" festival. The
rep said that they check with the customer to make sure the planned use
is under 75 miles, so that when the customer gets lost or does an extra
errand they stay within the 100 mile battery range.
100 mile range... drool...
Then... I discovered that Tufts University had a Rav4-EV. Turns out to
be a *second* electric Zip Car available for renting. And according to
an article I found in the student newspaper, there may be 3 more around
campus (in addition to some NEV's that may be heading to Tufts, per news
wire items that Bruce posted).
So how is it that Toyota claimed Rav4-EV's could not be sold outside of
California since there wouldn't be any service support elsewhere, yet
here they are clear across the country? And how is it that these five
show up after the Rav4-EV's are no longer available (if they ever were
"available")? Grumble.
I may have to go for the $60 trial membership in Zip Car just so I can
drive the thing around for a day (normally $8.50/hr for members).
This also means there are now two private charging stations in rather
public locations... are those inductive or conductive?
The student newspaper article:
http://www.tuftsdaily.com/articleDisplay.jsp?a_id=2245
Pictures I took at the AltWheels festival:
http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/AltWheels2003
Picture of the Rav4EV at Tufts U (a rather prominent location at the top
of The Hill near West Hall for those who know the place):
http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/Tufts_Rav4EV.jpg
The Zip Car list of Boston area cars, including the 2 EV's (note the
Tufts car is listed twice as right on a town line):
http://www.zipcar.com/boston/find-cars
(and I have reports of an EV1 in use nearby by a GM employee, but that
may be in 'winter storage' for now...)
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---
If the solar power gets converted to AC to run the charger, the ripple will
be there.
If you go direct from the solar power to charge the battery, the ripple will
not be there.
Most installations I have seen do the former. The latter is possible but I
have not seen it done yet. I expect to see examples in the near future.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
>
>
> Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Most battery manufacturers recommend pure DC for float applications. Most
EV
> batteries never see float conditions. To get pure DC requires a huge
filter
> capacitor or an active regulator. If you are not float charging the
> batteries, the capacitor is a waste of time, weight and volume.
>
>
>
>
> Unless you charge your EV from solar power. (grin)
>
>
>
> Gadget
>
>
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Vince,
I am using 18 8V batteries in my Civic and have reasonable acceleration and can travel
at highway speed eaisly over my 43 mile each way commute (recharge at work). You will
only be able to draw 350 Amps tops from 8V floodeds, kind of a let down after the27's,
but good for range. I've used both the US battery 8VGC and 8VGC-HC and think the
8VGC's might work better (less acid spills). Both packs gave me the same miles per
pound (8VGC - 12,300 miles, 8VGC-HC ~ 14,000 miles). I will be using the T875's next
time to get a on the road comparison.
You might consider buddy pairs of the orbital 34 XCM's. Sould get you decent range
and keep accleration nice. I thought about those, but my commute is a bit too long.
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 4:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: High Current or High Voltage?
My '91 Metro Convertible has turned out to be quite a fun project, it's
together and running and managing to get 26 miles per charge on it's 13 group
27TMX's. It really has great pickup, having only 760lbs of lead across the back
end over airspring bag-inserts. The Raptor 1200 has no problem pumping the
amps to the 8" ADC motor.
I just got my clean-air decals the other day and will commemorate them the
day or so after the car gets painted this spring.
The 13 group 27's arent cutting it in my grand-plan of being able to
commute from Vallejo to San Francisco daily (hence the H.O.V. stickers.) No great
surprise there, I had a feeling going into that choice of battery that they
maybe would be enough to get me going, but not enough to get me there. The
deciding factor at the time was price. So now that my feet are wet in the EV pool,
I'm liking it and ready to do more that around town and a few short bursts onto
the freeway.
My real question is: I have the room and weight-handling to do either 120
volts of US145's---giving me 29.2 Kw -- OR -- 156 volts of US2200's ---
giving me 35.1Kw.
Hmmm... twenty 145's or twenty-six 2200's ???
Wich way to go?
Vince B
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> 3) The end game is different though. The effect of a reasonable sized
> capacitor would be an increase in average voltage during the final phase
> of charging. This might help you if you are a little short on voltage.
>
> So, my ignorant conclusion is that the output capacitor is better left
> off unless you have a specific end game problem that you are trying to
> correct. In that case, the best value can probably be calculated by
> first doing some measurements during the actual end of charge phase to
> get an idea of what needs to be corrected.
>
> Please somebody who knows something help out David.
>
I'm no EE but putting a cap on the side with the batteries dose little for
the money, If you think about it the batteries hold the voltage at one fixed
point ( may go up or down a little) , so little rise and fall of voltage on
the cap is seen ( so little effect) , but if on the DC side you also had a
coil and had your cap close to the bridge rectifier then coil then battery,
you would see some action . as your voltage output from your transformer
started to climb above the battery voltage the coil would start to see a
voltage drop , and the cap can go to a higher voltage than the battery being
charged. When output voltage from transformer drops below battery voltage
the cap and coil will continue to supply current You can use the coil for a
relay to turn off the charger when the current drops , one of Lee's ideas.
Steve Clunn ,
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Vince,
>
> I am using 18 8V batteries in my Civic and have reasonable acceleration
and can travel at highway speed eaisly over my 43 mile each way commute
(recharge at work).
I'd say you've mastered the art of EV driving,
>
> Lynn Adams
>
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
Nice job and a fair price but why dose Jeff Clearwater not want to do any
more? again looks well done,
Steve Clunn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 4:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: High Current or High Voltage?
>
>
> My '91 Metro Convertible has turned out to be quite a fun project, it's
> together and running and managing to get 26 miles per charge on it's 13
group
> 27TMX's. It really has great pickup, having only 760lbs of lead across the
back
> end over airspring bag-inserts. The Raptor 1200 has no problem pumping the
> amps to the 8" ADC motor.
> I just got my clean-air decals the other day and will commemorate them
the
> day or so after the car gets painted this spring.
> The 13 group 27's arent cutting it in my grand-plan of being able to
> commute from Vallejo to San Francisco daily (hence the H.O.V. stickers.)
No great
> surprise there, I had a feeling going into that choice of battery that
they
> maybe would be enough to get me going, but not enough to get me there. The
> deciding factor at the time was price. So now that my feet are wet in the
EV pool,
> I'm liking it and ready to do more that around town and a few short bursts
onto
> the freeway.
> My real question is: I have the room and weight-handling to do either
120
> volts of US145's---giving me 29.2 Kw -- OR -- 156 volts of US2200's ---
> giving me 35.1Kw.
>
> Hmmm... twenty 145's or twenty-six 2200's ???
>
> Wich way to go?
>
> Vince B
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
People, let's not forget that the GM EV-1 and EV+ use
heat pumps, not AC. I think Panasonic manufactures
them. Anyone interested in doing the leg-work?
--- "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have searched for mobil evaporative coolers and
> have been unable to find one that will work off of
> 12V DC (I did find a story about one designed into
> an old (late- 40's) ice, but that is it.
>
> Does anyone the availablity of one of these.
>
> If not, I may have to design one on my own. Should
> be fairly straight forward, a pump, a fan and a
> little plastic cooler perhaps....
>
>
> Lynn Adams
>
>
> See my 100% electric car at
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:23 AM
> To: EV
> Subject: Re: Solar Power For AC
>
>
> Hi Sunil,
>
> You didn't provide enough details to properly answer
> this question, but
> I'll make some assumptions and try to answer it.
>
> Assumptions:
> 1) you want to provide AC for a car sized vehicle
> 2) you want to power the AC only with solar cells
> carried on the vehicle
>
> Answer: Can't really be done. An automotive AC
> requires roughly 3kw of
> power (driving down the road at 50 mph requires
> approx 10KW). A 3KW
> solar array is about 13 feet wide by 20 feet long.
> That's a bit bigger
> than the top of your average car (approx 5x10).
>
> You could mount the array on your garage roof and
> store the energy for
> the AC in batteries, but if you are going to do that
> then you might as
> well store the energy in your main battery pack.
>
> If you live in a very dry climate you might look
> into using an
> evaporative cooling system (dripping water over a
> fibrous mat and
> drawing air through it), these only require a
> perhaps a 100 watts to
> operate and could easily be powered by a single
> solar panel. Of course
> you have to keep replenishing the water and they
> only work when the
> humidity is low.
> I live in Arizona and this is the only kind of
> cooling my house has. It
> works great here. They call them "Swamp Coolers"
> here.
>
> Another option is to use a cooler full of crushed
> ice and draw air
> though that. Making the ice gets kind of expensive
> though (relatively
> speaking).
>
> On Wed, 2003-12-24 at 20:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > Dear Bill,
> > I am going to send you a digital image of my
> Suzuki EV. Can any one tell me
> > in the mean time how to provide a seperate solar
> charged supply to the Air
> > Conditioner. I am not an engineer, but a lawyer by
> profession.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> > http://mail2web.com/ .
> --
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying
> there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we
> just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem
> solve itself?
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
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http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
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