EV Digest 3250
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) MB80 cycle data (was Re: Prius Conversion)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Magnecharge EV1 Connectors For Sale
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Mobil Evaporative coolers (was RE: Solar Power For AC)
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) maximum current draw on battery
by "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: maximum current draw on battery
by "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: maximum current draw on battery
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) AC options, how about regen?
by Andrew in Ann Arbor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: maximum current draw on battery
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Rav4 EV's for rent near Boston, MA
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) solar ac
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) More AC/Heat stuff
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EV Snow Grin
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: maximum current draw on battery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Rav4 EV's for rent near Boston
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Wiring harness for EV - what's needed? (more)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: ADC Motor inspection and gear modifications
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: list archives?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Possible LiOH charging thoughts
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Inductive arc supression
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Inductive arc supression
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Inductive arc supression
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Gizmo Structural Failures
by "Bill Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) 1996 Ford EV Ranger for sale
by James P Donovan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The link is http://www.manzanitamicro.com/mb80%20cycle%20034.gif
It can be accessed from the Manzanita download page at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: Prius Conversion
> Roger Stockton wrote:
> >
> > Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
> >
> > > > I believe Rich was referring to the Evercel NiZn, not your
> > > > Thundersky Li-Ion.
> > >
> > > Not any NiZn I've ever seen.
> > >
> > > A hour at 56A and they're still mostly cold.
> >
> > Unfortunately, you haven't seen all NiZn, not even Evercel's ;^>
> >
>
> Umm yea Evercells do heat up. We did a 350 amp draw test. I can't
> publish the data. We had to stop the test, because we exeeded our temp
> limits.
>
> Man I wish the Lions and NiZn stuff made amps like the Exide 34XCD do!!!
> That IS published!.
>
> There are better Evercells in the pipe line. Maybe we will get to
> publish that data.
> Joe is abusing a MB80, He just handed me the link, and I just OKed it on
> my site.
> Joe is a bit under the weather right now, the link was not public about
> 10 minutes ago...
>
> Joe???
> Hacking in the shop tonight????
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm. I checked into this, and for the benefit of the list, here's what's up:
These are MC ports. They also have one of the two controllers that go
up-wire of the port. The manufacture date is 2001, so they might be
small paddle inductive.
One odd thing: It looks like they are water cooled, not air cooled at
least in the controller box. The ratings on the port look to be right;
450 volt maximum 6600 watt system.
I wonder if he has the charge controllers as well. If so that could be
*very* interesting. I don't need one, but it would make a nice charger.
Chris
Electro Automotive wrote:
I am posting this for someone not on the list. If you are interested,
please contact him directly:
>I have 17 pieces of GM part number 27006153 that I am trying to find a
>home for. Can you help?
>Thanks
>Eric Paulsen
>417-766-7769
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:52 AM 12/30/03 -0700, you wrote:
I have searched for mobil evaporative coolers and have been unable to find
one that will work off of 12V DC
Does anyone the availablity of one of these.
Lynn Adams
Try this link for the solar chill coolers, especially the kar kool models.
http://www.nvo.com/southwestsolar/productcatalog/list.nhtml
George S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, and Happy New Year to all,
I'm looking at the Orbital 34XCD, and see that it has a 100 amp maximum
current draw. Could someone explain to a freshman EV'er how you can pull
500-600 amps when your battery max's out at 100? Current only adds in
parallel, right?
While I'm on the topic of Orbitals, I've heard quite a bit of good about the
them. Any convincing reason to go with Optima's instead? How do Trojan's
fit into the picture? And why would anyone look at NiMH when the cost is so
much greater than lead-acid?
Thanks,
Ryan
_________________________________________________________
Ever seen an electric car? Visit www.evsource.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just saw a previous post (listed below) about the max. current draw on the
orbitals - so that answers that question.
> > >
> > > Well, a quick search of the net came up with:
> > >
> > > $98 -
> http://www.autosupplyusa.com/exor34exdeep.html (they
> misprint the 5
> > > second rating as 100A - it's 1100A "officially")
> > > or
> > > $125 -
Thanks,
Ryan
--------- Original Message --------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: maximum current draw on battery
Date: 31/12/03 01:34
>
> Hi, and Happy New Year to all,
>
> I'm looking at the Orbital 34XCD, and see that it has a 100 amp maximum
> current draw. Could someone explain to a freshman EV'er how you can pull
> 500-600 amps when your battery max's out at 100? Current only adds in
> parallel, right?
>
> While I'm on the topic of Orbitals, I've heard quite a bit of good about
the
> them. Any convincing reason to go with Optima's instead? How do Trojan's
> fit into the picture? And why would anyone look at NiMH when the cost is
so
> much greater than lead-acid?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Ever seen an electric car? Visit www.evsource.com
>
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________
Ever seen an electric car? Visit www.evsource.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan,
My specification sheet on my Trojan 244 amp-hour T-145 battery has a maximum
ampere of 800 amps.
The 100 amp battery is a 100 amp-hour battery.
Ampere-hour capacity is a measure of how many amperes a battery can deliver
for a specified length of time which is calculated at 20 hours.
Therefore a 100 ampere-hour battery can deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours (5
ampere x 20 hours = 100 amp-hrs.)
Actual battery capacity decreases as discharge current increase. A battery
rated at 100 ampere-hours which can deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours, may
deliver 20 amperes for only 4 hours.
You can portional down to minutes, for example:
20 amperes = 4 hours
40 amperes = 2 hours
80 amperes = 1 hour
160 amperes = 30 minutes
320 amperes = 15 minutes
640 amperes = 7.5 minutes
The battery capacity decreases as discharge current goes up, so the maximum
ampere would began to fall.
Some 100 amp-hour battery at a maximum draw at 10 seconds could approach
2000 amps, which is normally call the cranking amperes.
Roland
The ampere-hour
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:27 PM
Subject: maximum current draw on battery
> Hi, and Happy New Year to all,
>
> I'm looking at the Orbital 34XCD, and see that it has a 100 amp maximum
> current draw. Could someone explain to a freshman EV'er how you can pull
> 500-600 amps when your battery max's out at 100? Current only adds in
> parallel, right?
>
> While I'm on the topic of Orbitals, I've heard quite a bit of good about
> the
> them. Any convincing reason to go with Optima's instead? How do Trojan's
> fit into the picture? And why would anyone look at NiMH when the cost is
> so
> much greater than lead-acid?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Ever seen an electric car? Visit www.evsource.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The high frequency is much easier to remove than the 120 Hz ripple of a TWC.
A couple thumb size capacitors and an inductor will smooth it right out. The
charger probably has the filtering on board.
The issue to the battery is: the AC component of the current will heat up
the battery without charging it. The DC component does the charging work.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
> I use the Xantrex charge controllers, they boast a ,three-stage (bulk,
absorption, and float) charge. But, it is a high frequency pulse width
modulation system.
> At this high a frequency, would the chemisty notice the ripple?
>
> Gadget
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the solar power gets converted to AC to run the charger, the ripple
will
> be there.
>
> If you go direct from the solar power to charge the battery, the ripple
will
> not be there.
>
> Most installations I have seen do the former. The latter is possible but I
> have not seen it done yet. I expect to see examples in the near future.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reverend Gadget"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
>
>
> >
> >
> > Joe Smalley wrote:
> > Most battery manufacturers recommend pure DC for float applications.
Most
> EV
> > batteries never see float conditions. To get pure DC requires a huge
> filter
> > capacitor or an active regulator. If you are not float charging the
> > batteries, the capacitor is a waste of time, weight and volume.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unless you charge your EV from solar power. (grin)
> >
> >
> >
> > Gadget
> >
> >
> >
> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2003-12-24 at 20:42, sunilrd(a-t)sltnet.lk wrote:
> Dear Bill,
> I am going to send you a digital image of my Suzuki EV.
> Can any one tell me in the mean time how to provide a seperate solar
> charged supply to the Air Conditioner.
>
> Sunil
Sunil
If you drive mostly stop and go you might consider setting your AC
compressor up to run from the motor switched with your brake lights.
When you step on the brake it engages the AC compressor which cools the
car as it slows you down, sort of regenerative braking with the energy
going into cooling the car instead of recharging your batteries.
Ben Graves' 66 bus <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html>
is set up this way. The AC compressor is belted to the tail shaft of the
motor with the usual electrically operated clutch on the motor shaft.
He reports that this arrangement keeps his VW bus cool in St. Petersburg
Florida. The downside is that it doesn't work on the highway.
I suppose you could activate the clutch while cruising but you'd be
robbing energy from your traction pack instead on recapturing energy
that would otherwise go to heating your brakes.
--
Andrew in Ann Arbor
technology is the answer, what was the question?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Continuing battery ampere data after I was cut off.
The rated ampere-hour of a battery is reduce as the discharge ampere is
increase as:
A 244 amp-hour battery that has a 540 reserved minutes at 25 amps:
540 minutes / 60 minutes = 9 hours
9 hours x 25 amps = 225 amp-hour
As the discharge amperes goes up:
145 minutes / 60 minutes = 2.416 hours
2.416 hours x 75 amps = 181.2 amp-hour
The 181.2 amp-hour is the usable amp-hour from a 244 amp-hour battery.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: maximum current draw on battery
> Hello Ryan,
>
> My specification sheet on my Trojan 244 amp-hour T-145 battery has a
> maximum ampere of 800 amps.
>
> The 100 amp battery is a 100 amp-hour battery.
>
> Ampere-hour capacity is a measure of how many amperes a battery can
> deliver for a specified length of time which is calculated at 20 hours.
>
> Therefore a 100 ampere-hour battery can deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours (5
> ampere x 20 hours = 100 amp-hrs.)
>
> Actual battery capacity decreases as discharge current increase. A battery
> rated at 100 ampere-hours which can deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours, may
> deliver 20 amperes for only 4 hours.
>
> You can portional down to minutes, for example:
>
> 20 amperes = 4 hours
> 40 amperes = 2 hours
> 80 amperes = 1 hour
> 160 amperes = 30 minutes
> 320 amperes = 15 minutes
> 640 amperes = 7.5 minutes
>
> The battery capacity decreases as discharge current goes up, so the
> maximum ampere would began to fall.
>
> Some 100 amp-hour battery at a maximum draw at 10 seconds could approach
> 2000 amps, which is normally call the cranking amperes.
>
> Roland
>
> The ampere-hour
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:27 PM
> Subject: maximum current draw on battery
>
>
> > Hi, and Happy New Year to all,
> >
> > I'm looking at the Orbital 34XCD, and see that it has a 100 amp maximum
> > current draw. Could someone explain to a freshman EV'er how you can
> > pull
> > 500-600 amps when your battery max's out at 100? Current only adds in
> > parallel, right?
> >
> > While I'm on the topic of Orbitals, I've heard quite a bit of good about
> > the
> > them. Any convincing reason to go with Optima's instead? How do
> > Trojan's
> > fit into the picture? And why would anyone look at NiMH when the cost
> > is so
> > much greater than lead-acid?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Ever seen an electric car? Visit www.evsource.com
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw an EV1 driving around my neighborhood (Watertown) a while ago. I
pulled up next to it (in my EV) and tried to talk to the driver. He
wasn't very friendly. He couldn't really figure out why I was talking
to him. He didn't really seem to care that he was driving an electric
car. He told me there were about 10 in the area with various GM
employees.
-Jeremy
On Dec 30, 2003, at 6:02 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
(and I have reports of an EV1 in use nearby by a GM employee, but that
may be in 'winter storage' for now...)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
3kw to run AC is because it has to catch up, what if we could drive a
small AC unit off solar constantly and use the 3kw as a boost AC to get
the car cool if it gets to hot. Sure would be neat to come out to the
parking lot after 2 hours in the store and ther car has been maintained.
I worked on this idea for a while, but had a problem with scale. An
Aumotive AC would need an eletric fan on condenser to work when
stationary and vapor/compression below 3/4 ton is not effient and hard
to find. Peltiers are not efficient at all. the lines cross around an
ice chest size :-)
One thought: use freon 104 through copper pipes sweated to trunk lid
painted plack and hang a condenser below vehicle in shade, use solar to
pump and run fans. Ammonia absorption system tempting, like RV refridge.
To lessen the load on AC, new cars have coated glass, if replacement
glass isn't similarly coated, the AC can't catch up! big diference.
How about this idea, All the big schools here in fresno use low cost
power at night to freeze a big block of ice which they run collent thru
and blow air across all day (about 3pm then, man it gets hot quick)
So we utilize the built in heater core for the coolant loop and we can
heat it or cool it electricly. While charging in summer, we let it
freeze a block. Heavy system : water is about 8lb/gal. Guess thats why
all the hoopla about magnetic refridgeration.
anyway, we got a fem monthes to worry about AC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.sae.org/calendar/aars/2002/inui_toyota.pdf
oooooh, this looks interesting, and powered by eletricity
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well we just got our first useable snow at my house tonight. Most years we
don't get any at all, so we always consider this a time to play. It's
dropped about an inch or two already with a forecast of going all night. As
soon as the roads had a thin cover, I hitched up one of the sleds to the
back of my EV Motorcycle and started dragging kids around the neighborhood.
Somehow the quiet of an EV is very fitting in the snow. I was going at very
slow speeds, but with 224 pounds of NiCads I didn't have any traction
problems. After about 2 hours we finally called it a night and the bike
went on charge getting ready for the morning run. It was certainly a lot
less work pulling a sled behind the EV than trudging up and down a hill :-)
I took my wife on the last and longest ride. Which included a pull up a bit
of a hill. This heated the motor up quite a bit, in fact more than I
realized, but I think a few handfuls of snow applied liberally to the end of
the motor casing cooled it down enough to keep from doing any damage.
How do you know when a motor has gotten too hot? Obvously if it stops
spinning it has, but are there other signs before that. With my 6.7 inch
ADC running at only 48 volts and the fairly high gear ratio I am using to
allow me to reach freeway speeds, I do worry about overheating it,
especially going up hills. I estimate that at my top speed (60 mph) the
motor is turning about 3000 RPMs, so most of the time it spins slower than
this. The timing is still set at neutral. Would changing the timing make a
difference in operating temperature?
I know that it would be better to change my gear ration so the motor spins
faster, but 48V is as high as my controller can go, and even with a
different controller I am maxed out in both space and weight using these
nicads, and I really want to keep it capable of freeway speeds.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed
providers now. https://broadband.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<From: "Roland Wiench": My specification sheet on my Trojan 244 amp-hour T-145
battery has a maximum ampere of 800 amps.>>
How about the difference between "spec'd for 800A" and "doesn't shorten cycle
life"?! Flooded cells should stay below half your spec to live a long life.
Rich said he got >1800A from an Orbital, but not how it might effect usable
life. Plasma Boy gets hundreds of cycles from Hawkers that regularly see
800-1000A.
WMMV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<I saw an EV1 driving around my neighborhood (Watertown) a while ago. I
pulled up next to it (in my EV) and tried to talk to the driver. He
wasn't very friendly. He couldn't really figure out why I was talking
to him. He didn't really seem to care that he was driving an electric
car. He told me there were about 10 in the area with various GM
employees.
-Jeremy>>
Sounds like he was driving it because it was a GM loaner, not because it was an
EV!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
There were a few more items that I probably should have stated first time.
The vehicle is a small Daihatsu cab/chassis truck, very similar to the
Electra-Van (Subaru) platform. Manual gearbox.
All the 12V stuff I intend to make up a modified automotive style taped
loom. Anything related to the high voltage will be in orange industrial
plastic-coated 'Anaconda' (brand) flexible steel conduit. This is in
keeping with the reccomendation that David Brandt, Joe Smalley and Chris
Tromley have highlighted.
The cable in the conduit is likely to end up being industrial multi-core
control flex for all the smaller wires, plus 2-core 4mm sq power flex for
the heater, inside the conduit, terminated using industrial terminals (in
the manner that Roland Wiench describes). The hairball interface is likely
to be in a clear-fronted industrial plastic enclosure in the cabin of the
truck.
For traction power I have on order some screened 4-core 50mm sq cable for
industrial variable-frequency drive use. Doubling-up on the conductors will
give me 100mm sq - I have no idea what/0 size this would be.
As this is a flat-tray cab-forward truck I will be putting the batteries in
an enclosure under the tray. A second enclosure will be part of the
under-bed assembly, which will enclose the HV fuses, contactors DC/DC and
auxiliary control relays (the voltmeter etc will be isolated from the pack
with the key off, although I'm still working out how/what). With the key
off, the only HV outside of this enclosure will be the charger inlet.
Take it as read that fuses will be in appropriate locations.
1st part: "Automotive" wiring - staying with the wire colours and wiring
diagram of the original vehicle, less the items not needed (and plus some
items not originaly provided for). This will all be in the standard way of
automotive looms - fully taped with insulation tape, and extra tubing
sections where chafe may occur. Roland Wiench made some suggestions, the
ones marked # are added from his list.
1a) 'always on' items:
'Ignition' switch,
Headlights/sidelights/dash lights, # fog lights, # Driving lights.
indicators & hazards,
interior light,
horn,
electric door locks and alarm,
'cigarette lighter' auxiliary power outlet,
Auxiliary battery,
Fuse panel,
1b) 'ignition' switch controlled items:
wipers / washer,
low brake fluid indicator,
low brake vacuum indicator,
Brake & reverse lights, & reverse beeper,
handbrake warning light,
electric heater control (contactors near traction pack),
fan control (plus additional external control from timer with heater),
radio & speakers,
tacho,
2nd part: EV auxiliary items - control for EV items plus instrumentation.
Some of this will be in the automotive loom, so I need to decide what
before I re-tape the loom. Again, # thanks Roland.
Throttle pot (twisted pair screened),
Throttle stop position switch,
controller auxiliary wiring (as per Otmars' Zilla wiring diagram)
Controller aux wiring includes: Contactors, precharger, motor speed sensor,
tach, battery light, check engine light.
Vacuum pump control switch,
Ammeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
voltmeter(/s) (twisted pair screened),
# Fan for traction motor
# Electric motor temperature (I already had this planned, but forgot)
3rd part: EV power items - control of these will be in 12V loom, HV in
orange flex conduit, power cables to be seperate as required.
Traction pack fusing and disconnects,
Controller and motor power cables,
Traction contactors and cables,
vacuum pump contactors and cable,
heater contactors and cable,
DC/DC converter,
Auxiliary control relays
charger interlocking
Not having power steering or aircon (no space in vehicle even if I wanted
to!). What else have I missed, what other items should I allow for before
re-taping the wiring loom?
Are there any wiring schematics for EVs on the 'net that I can access as a
guide? (please post or send me a link).
Thanks
James Massey
'78 Daihatsu cab/chassis under conversion.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With the battery capacitance being many Farads, it wouldn't make any sense
to add microfarad caps in parallel, a fractional percentage. Pulsed current
doesn't matter to the battery, it will charge the same based on the
average. - Mark (Roanoke, VA)
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Filter Caps on battery chargers
>
> >
> > 3) The end game is different though. The effect of a reasonable sized
> > capacitor would be an increase in average voltage during the final phase
> > of charging. This might help you if you are a little short on voltage.
> >
> > So, my ignorant conclusion is that the output capacitor is better left
> > off unless you have a specific end game problem that you are trying to
> > correct. In that case, the best value can probably be calculated by
> > first doing some measurements during the actual end of charge phase to
> > get an idea of what needs to be corrected.
> >
> > Please somebody who knows something help out David.
> >
>
> I'm no EE but putting a cap on the side with the batteries dose little for
> the money, If you think about it the batteries hold the voltage at one
fixed
> point ( may go up or down a little) , so little rise and fall of voltage
on
> the cap is seen ( so little effect) , but if on the DC side you also had a
> coil and had your cap close to the bridge rectifier then coil then
battery,
> you would see some action . as your voltage output from your transformer
> started to climb above the battery voltage the coil would start to see a
> voltage drop , and the cap can go to a higher voltage than the battery
being
> charged. When output voltage from transformer drops below battery voltage
> the cap and coil will continue to supply current You can use the coil for
a
> relay to turn off the charger when the current drops , one of Lee's ideas.
>
> Steve Clunn ,
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Others may speak up on this, but I thought that 4000 rpm was ok for
cruising along a relatively flat constant speed road. Of course 5000+
rpm gives better cooling since the fan is going faster. If you shift to
2nd gear, does the motor then turn too fast?
You may be in a different situation then most. With the generator assist
you can keep driving much longer. I would generally think in terms of
the 30 minute or 1 hour rating of the motor where you need to think
about the continuous duty rating.
And that is quite a trip you have planned. As I understand it, James Bay
is a rather remote area... so a reliable vehicle is a must. This will be
an impressive accomplishment!
Alain St-Yves wrote:
Hi,
Remember..., I have the green Chev. S10 in Quebec " Le Vehicule Vert
with a 5 kwatts induction generator assist. Did change of job last
september, now driving near 100 km daily, half of distance is on
highway.
Have plan to make a 3000 km ride this summer to Baie James, info are on
my WEB page...
First step to prepare my EV is to remove the motor ( 55,000 km) and
transmission( 206 000km) for inspection. Any comments about motor
inspection special point to check is welcome.
Second step will be probably to change the ratio of the tranny to be
able to have the motor at some 5500 to 6000 rpm at 100-105 km/hr because
I am actually on highway in third speed at about 4000 rpm so higher
current than at 5500 where it should be... I want to use my EV at the
specifications limits but not over.... Winter has been verry cold for a
verrrry long time so my motor did work hard but had goog cooling air
..., I dont want to overheat this summer going to Baie James... Are you
modifying your EV gear ratio in the south if you have to drive on
highways or you drive in third at 4000 rpm and heat your motors ?
Third, I will have to built a 10 to 15 kwatts induction generator on a
small profile trailor for that special 3000 km trip. Last 5 months of
daily use of an induction generator did demonstrate it is a trouble free
simple generator solution.
Hope I will find the motor is still in good conditions...
Alain St-Yves
WEB site www.rocler.qc.ca/levehiculevert
for the generator www.rocler.qc.ca/levehiculevert/generateur.htm
[note - I used http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to translate the pages to
English - jbc]
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
This and more is explained at http://www.evdl.org/help/
There are archives for the EV Discussion list, at
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/
[sorry for duplication if this has already been answered... I'm catching
up on messages in a strange order as I've been using different computers]
Harmon Seaver wrote:
Where are the archives for this list?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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Chuck Hursch wrote:
(on modular charging)
I have toyed with the idea of a bulk/modular hybrid charging
approach. Use a big bulk charger until one module seems
mostly "done". Then use relays on a charging bus to top-off
individual modules, sensing for the lowest SOC.
Anybody know how to test for SoC on LiOH?
I thought that LiOH do not mind NOT being fully charged
every time... like NiMH. Is that true? If so...
this could be a great way to go. It takes a long time to
get all modules to full SoC, but if that doesn't effect
cycle life, who cares?
The reason I like the central computer idea is that you can roll
your own software algorithms to handle that last part of the
charge (and you can have whatever features you like). And it may
be possible to do some kind of "smoothing" through this network,
pulling up a weakest battery by charging it with 30A (or
whatever, but better than that puny 5A the Zivan Smoother had)
One piece of the puzzle missing is a good, programmable,
lower power module charger.
If I didn't have a regular job, I'd be looking into building
some sort of very smart small module charger controlled
by a PIC.
from the rest of the pack as you drive down the road. With the
modular chargers that people have tried, you're stuck with their
algorithm, and it seems that you are paying for duplicated power
supplies and a bunch of containers (all of which take up room and
power).
The cost of multiple chargers isn't that bad. Still less than PFC20
in many cases. Problem is that they are not all that smart.
The main complaint I hear about modular charging is that you
need a good fault detection system. By the time you build
that, you are most of the way to a relay controlled charging bus,
and you could use that with a single module charger.
It still seems to me that if we has a nice, smart, small, u-proc
controlled module charger that this would be the way to go.
There are a lot of markets for smaller chargers outside of EVs
which could be leveraged to make a lot of them and bring the
unit price down. If these chargers had a serial port interface,
perhaps we could program a multiplexer from a PDA to monitor
health and report problems before somebody reverses a cell.
How much would individual 12V or 6V DC to DC computer
controllable power supplies cost?
Seems like individual, computer controlled AC to DC converters
would be easier. Or at least similar if you freq-multiply
(or modulate) the input to get smaller, lighter transformers.
I don't think the one central
computer itself would be that expensive - it would just be a
small computer with enough power to run the charging scene and
give whatever other features you want. The big AC to DC unit
might be the expensive piece, but maybe comparable to a Rudman
PFC.
Yea. There's just no excuse not to have u-processor controllers
in just about anything these days. I'm not experienced
in this area (yet) but can't you get a u-proc with serial
port drivers and some D/A (perhaps A/D) for like $2. (PIC?)
Not knocking anyone or their ideas, but from my perspective, it
seems that most of the solutions talked about on the EVDL for
charging issues are pure hardware, or nearly so. Maybe my
perspective as a software engineer not knowing much about
hardware skews how I see things.
Don't recall if I talked to you before... but same here.
I have an MSEE, but my EE training is really applied math.
I took the minimum allowable classes in practical areas like
circuits. I have worked my entire career as a software engineer,
and look forward to playing with embedded u-proc stuff instead of
larger VxWorks-class systems (PowerPC, Alpha, etc...)
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
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I see where a lot of people use capacitors across relay contacts
to supress arcs. Seems a bit sideways to me.
Why not use an inductor? They should resist any quick change
in current... but they can change voltage very rapidly...
so it might be the opposite of what you need.
The idea would be as simple as wraping a wire around a piece of
iron a few times before going into a DC circuit. It would
take a little time for the B field to build up and allow
current to flow.
Would there be a reasonable way to use this along with
a capacitor?
Would they oscillate when you throw the switch?
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason they use a capacitor is because they are trying to suppress
the arc caused by inductors, adding more inductance will aggravate the
problem, not solve it.
The fact that inductors resist a change in current is what causes the
arc in the first place, they don't want the current to suddenly stop
(like when you open a contact).
On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 08:35, Aaron Birenboim wrote:
> I see where a lot of people use capacitors across relay contacts
> to supress arcs. Seems a bit sideways to me.
>
> Why not use an inductor? They should resist any quick change
> in current... but they can change voltage very rapidly...
> so it might be the opposite of what you need.
>
> The idea would be as simple as wraping a wire around a piece of
> iron a few times before going into a DC circuit. It would
> take a little time for the B field to build up and allow
> current to flow.
>
> Would there be a reasonable way to use this along with
> a capacitor?
> Would they oscillate when you throw the switch?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
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Normally, a capacitor is used across AC contactors and a diode is used
across DC contactors.
All my contactors have a suppression module that is design my the contactor
manufacturer, which attaches to the contactor itself.
The circuit is made up of a combination of capacitors, resistors and diodes.
Has three leads output, two leads going across the contactor and one going
to the opposite polarity of the contactor load.
Some of these contactors are 27 years old and the contact pads are still
good. All these contactors make and brake while not under load.
My suppression modules are also fuse at 1 amp to prevent them to burn up if
any component has a failure.
The contactor manufacturers that have these supression modules I have
purchase, are General Electric, Westinghouse, Square D, Cutler Hammer, Arrow
Hart and CableForm.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Birenboim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 8:35 AM
Subject: Inductive arc suppression
> I see where a lot of people use capacitors across relay contacts
> to supress arcs. Seems a bit sideways to me.
>
> Why not use an inductor? They should resist any quick change
> in current... but they can change voltage very rapidly...
> so it might be the opposite of what you need.
>
> The idea would be as simple as wraping a wire around a piece of
> iron a few times before going into a DC circuit. It would
> take a little time for the B field to build up and allow
> current to flow.
>
> Would there be a reasonable way to use this along with
> a capacitor?
> Would they oscillate when you throw the switch?
> --
> Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> Albuquerque, NM |
> aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> >http://aaron.boim.com |
>
>
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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Hey all:
I listed my truck for sale this morning. It can be found on ebay at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2451823871.
Jim
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