EV Digest 3273
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: eGPR
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) BLDC design open source posted
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: electric bus on eBay Fun Camper?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: head count for NEDRA pre-season Jan 24th
by "Brian D. Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Repairing the E-woody, Safety design, wasRe: E-Woody takes a hit!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: eGPR
by Christian Kocmick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: E-Woody take a hit!
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: E-Woody take a hit!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: price/kWh was Re: Battery Choices
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Mars Rover achieves 1.9 to 9.6 kWh / mile.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Tire Dunlop LM 702 claims to have LLR
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: eGPR
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Mars Rover achieves 1.9 to 9.6 kWh / mile.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Prius EV Switch
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery Choices
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(GM plans hybrids of popular brands)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EVLN(Mitsubishi Eclipse hybrid)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
C in this case is the AH capacity of your battery. All deep cycle
batteries include an AH rating. I.e. if you are using batteries rated
for 50 AH , then 1C would be 50 amps, 2C would be 100 amps and so forth.
C can also be used the other way around to indicate a current draw that
is less than the rated capacity, I.e. C20 basically means capacity
divided by 20. For our hypothetical 50AH battery, C20 would be 1.5
amps.
The are a couple gotchas that are sort of related to this. Most EVs use
Lead-Acid (PbA) batteries. PbA batteries are usually rated at their 20
hour rate. This means how many amp hours you can get out of them over
20 hours (C20). The problem is that they don't deliver anywhere near
that capacity at higher current draws. If we have a PbA battery rated
at 200 AH (C20) it will probably only be able to produce 120 AH at the 1
hour rate (1C).
Also at high current rates batteries experience voltage sag, the higher
the current the more they sag. The lower voltage means that you have to
draw even more current to provide the same power level.
TO answer your second question, using either higher voltage or higher
capacity batteries will help solve the problem Higher voltage because
that means you need less current to provide a given power level. Higher
capacity batteries means that a given current draw will be a smaller C.
i.e 100 amps is 2C for a 50AH battery but only 1C for a 100AH battery.
On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 12:00, Christian Kocmick wrote:
> Some confusion here. When you say 4C or 3C, etc, what does that mean? So
> if I have 48 volts of NiZn, at 70lbs, I can't push them past 150 amps
> without reducing battery life. Do you mean I should go for higher
> voltage or more weight?
> I guess I don't understand depletion. (It's been a very long time since
> I took electronics)
>
> Christian
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> ><<Forgive me if I caught the last half of this, but I am working towards
> >owning an electric GPR which comes with NiZn batteries. Does anyone know what
> >the ev-builders like Phoenix and Electric Motorsport are doing to replace
> >NiZn?>>
> >
> >Evercells are rated to 4C, which means 70# of the MB40's shouldn't be pushed
> >above 150A - fine for range, not much fun with pocket rockets. I wonder how
> >long a NiZn pack would last in the eGPR I got to test ride, with the Alltrax
> >set at 650A!
> >
> >
> >
> >
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those interested I have my 100A BLDC design
posted on the Yahoo group OSMC.
The circuit board and schematics also include
several other circuit boards including;
100A-200A H-Bridge brush DC control (needs testing
for actual current limit).
6A H-Bridge control (very small, 1.5" by 1.5")
TI DSP flash programming and serial communication
PC interface board.
60 to 120 degree and 120 to 60 degree electrical
spacing converter for BLDC hall boards.
20-180Vdc input and 12Vdc output buck converter
power supply.
Several LED boards that I'll use for headlights
and tail lights on my golf cart.
The PCB and schematic files are in the files
section titled "Rods BLDC control"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/osmc/
Pictures of the 100A BLDC control are in
the photos section titled "Rods BLDC"
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/osmc/lst
You may need a subscription to view
these sections.
If anybody is really interested in building one
I can post the software for the BLDC control.
I still need to write software for the high current
H-Bridge control.
It uses the Motorola 68HC908QY4, a 16 pin
microcontroller ($0.90) in production quantities.
Rod
www.qsl.net/w8rnh
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob and All,
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All;
>
> Gee! What a cute kittle bus! What a nice
> Motorhome it would make, wish it
My thoughts exactly.
It has a 4 cyl engine driving the AC system,
switch that to a generator and run the ac off DC to
make a hybrid and use 6v GC batts to power the
traction motor for long distance work.
> was up in the fridgid Northwest. Would be a great
> Ampabout story to drive it
> home to CT<g>! Anybody going for it?? Jerry, Steve,
> other guyz in FLA??
No one so far.
Tampa just got some new hybrid busses which after
the last ones did so bad they sent them back and now
buying them from S Cal.
jerry dycus
>
> When getting bussed is a pleasure!
>
> Bob
> > Hi All,
> > There is one of these here in Tampa listed
> for
> > $2,000. Probably get it for less. You better have
> a
> > big forklift for the batt packs as they look very
> > heavy. About a 4' cube of lead batts. 2 packs.
> > jerry dycus
> > --- BORTEL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Now here's one that nobody should be without.
> > >
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2452154897&cat
> egory=6728
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good to hear from you John, Hearing your Zombie posts sure makes me want to
build something new.Do you remember riding my bike when I set the 96 volt
record?
Mainfuse
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: head count for NEDRA pre-season Jan 24th
> Hello to All,
>
> "Brian D. Hall" wrote:
>
> > Only Two weeks left! time to start warming up those batteries. We will
be at
> > NEDRA's season opener in Vegas with "revolt" drag bike , 192 volts , two
> > e-Teks, baby zilla with series / parallel switching. Hoping to get break
> > into the high 12's and over 100 mph.
> > Brian D. Hall
>
> Good luck with the bike and it's improvements, it sure sounds like the
right
> combination....be safe and have fun!
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rick and All,
--- Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > Hi All,
> > This post was suppost to be an update on my
> > E-woody but thursday night coming home from work
> while
> > I was doing 40 mph a speeding fast and furious
> type
> > hit my rearend at about 65mph.
> > Anyway the small newish car hit the rear at
> a
> > 25mph about closing speed. I was worried!!! I was
> > driving a wooden car!!! But I only had about 1/10
> sec
> > to worry!!!
>
>
> Hi Jerry and Others,
>
> Thank goodness you fared so well!!! I'm impressed
Thank you and the other posters for the good
wishes.
> with the outcome of your
> vehicle.
So was I but it was just a 25mph hit and was hit
almost perfectly for the crash system to work well. If
I had been t-boned I'd be history. The front half
crash protection is better than the rear as more
space, weight to work with but crash speeds would be
higher so needs it.
But it taught me a lot and will incorperate it
into my composite version by making the aft bulkhead
at a shallower angle and higher at the rear to protect
from larger vehicles.
May do the same at the forward cabin bulkhead in
the future designs. It lets the frontend with the
batts take the brunt of the forces then the cabin
breaks away sliding up over the frontend and onto the
top of the car/ SUV that hits from head-on. I was
debating about this before but since it was a major
reason for how well I survived the rear hit it looks a
lot better now.
I'd love to see some photos of the design
> details in the trailing
> arm and rear suspension area as you make your
> repairs. I don't know if you
> have a camera or not, but it would be good info to
> share for anyone who may
> have an inclination to build something
> similar,...hint, hint. ;-))
I'll buy a camera tomarrow and do that. Have to
learn how to work my scanner and how to e-mail pics
on yahoo. I have a lot of pics of the building process
that would be good to learn from.
I also will build an improved E-woody on order or
my composite version if anyone wants one either as a
rolling glider or finished.
Building one for me was easy but unless you know
wood/epoxy boatbuilding skills along with other skills
it could be hard. But it's so cheap to build you could
build the first one for practice as I did the first
e-woody just to learn on, then build a better one with
what you learned. Body materials only come to about
$300!!! Add a VW bug front end and the EV parts and
your rolling!!
Today I had a good look at the damage and even
less damage than I thought. Bent back one bracket,
will have to replace the pivot pin and epoxy the bolts
back in and should be ready to go.
The motor mounting bolts, bulkhead need a little
epoxy but is easy to fix. I love wood/ epoxy!!!
Checked the motor and it still works so tomarrow
I take my electric cycle chair trike ,18mph, 30 mile
range, with a trailer made for a Northern Hyd 14" dia
tired moving dolly bought for $27 to pick up the
plywood, shock, ect.
Only mods needed were an eyebolt on the handle for
a hitch and a 50" wide 2x4 across the bottom lifting
lip with some rope will be able to carry the ply,
2x4's 6 miles back home..
Bought a neat, small car trailer for the e-woody
from Northern Hyd store here for $139 that only
weights 138 lbs. I couldn't buy the parts for that.
Would make a great generator trailer.
>
> Thank goodness you are virtually unscathed Jerry. I
> like stories with happy
> endings.
So do I. ;-))
Use ice on anything that feels sore for the
> first 72 hours, not
> heat. If you use heat at first, it will cause any
> muscle/soft tissue
> injuries to take years to heal. After 72 hours, you
> can use heat. I know
> from experience of being rearended in my ICE vehicle
> in 1994. I used heat
> because it was Winter and ice was just ~too cold~.
> Silly me. I hope you can
> avoid the same problems I had with my back, neck and
> shoulders for several
> years following.
Thanks for the info.
Better go do my parts and to do list for
tomarrow,
Thanks,
jerry dycus
>
> Regards,
>
> Rick
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with Ralph. I read this list in digest form, sometimes through a
9,600 bps
cellphone modem connection; thus, I cannot filter out off-topic messages.
There
are zillions of other lists and boards that welcome political discussion;
the charter
of this list is quite clear and should be adhered to. By allowing offtopic
and
political discussion, we will only drown out useful information and cause
some of
our most knowledgeable contributors to go elsewhere.
That said, I think one of the biggest issues on this list is its improper
handling of
non-plaintext posts and the lack of single powerful archive and search
engine.
I wonder if the Sysop can upgrade to a newer version of the same software on
the SJSU server, and if that would fix the issue? If it's a matter of cost,
I'm sure
we could get together some contributors. (Heck, I get more out of this list
than I
do out of HBO, and I pay good money for HBO.)
Tim
-----------
From: Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A better forum for EV and politics
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:22:03 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
mreish writes:
But, as someone else pointed out (forget who, sorry) that web based
boards are slow for modem users.� Heck, I have a fast connect and I'm
not fond of them either so I offer this solution:� We all decide on a
convention of prefixes in the message header.� For example, if the
message isn't really EV related the subject could be "NEVC: my
subject" for No EV Content.� A political one could be "POL: my
subject" and so forth.
An alternative is to stick to the list guidelines of no off-topic
postings, no political postings, etc.� No new acronyms needed...
Sheer brings up an excellent point bout fragmenting the community.
I've seen that happen in the past and don't want to see it happen to
EVDL.
And as others have posted, if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up � fast & reliable Internet access with prime
features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you. So that means if I want a 400 amp controller, I need to
arrange the batteries (in this case NiZn or LiIon) to provide a
corresponding amp-hour. It also explains the draw limitations of certain
chemistries, I think.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
C in this case is the AH capacity of your battery. All deep cycle
batteries include an AH rating. I.e. if you are using batteries rated
for 50 AH , then 1C would be 50 amps, 2C would be 100 amps and so forth.
C can also be used the other way around to indicate a current draw that
is less than the rated capacity, I.e. C20 basically means capacity
divided by 20. For our hypothetical 50AH battery, C20 would be 1.5
amps.
The are a couple gotchas that are sort of related to this. Most EVs use
Lead-Acid (PbA) batteries. PbA batteries are usually rated at their 20
hour rate. This means how many amp hours you can get out of them over
20 hours (C20). The problem is that they don't deliver anywhere near
that capacity at higher current draws. If we have a PbA battery rated
at 200 AH (C20) it will probably only be able to produce 120 AH at the 1
hour rate (1C).
Also at high current rates batteries experience voltage sag, the higher
the current the more they sag. The lower voltage means that you have to
draw even more current to provide the same power level.
TO answer your second question, using either higher voltage or higher
capacity batteries will help solve the problem Higher voltage because
that means you need less current to provide a given power level. Higher
capacity batteries means that a given current draw will be a smaller C.
i.e 100 amps is 2C for a 50AH battery but only 1C for a 100AH battery.
On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 12:00, Christian Kocmick wrote:
Some confusion here. When you say 4C or 3C, etc, what does that mean? So
if I have 48 volts of NiZn, at 70lbs, I can't push them past 150 amps
without reducing battery life. Do you mean I should go for higher
voltage or more weight?
I guess I don't understand depletion. (It's been a very long time since
I took electronics)
Christian
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<<Forgive me if I caught the last half of this, but I am working towards
owning an electric GPR which comes with NiZn batteries. Does anyone know what
the ev-builders like Phoenix and Electric Motorsport are doing to replace
NiZn?>>
Evercells are rated to 4C, which means 70# of the MB40's shouldn't be pushed
above 150A - fine for range, not much fun with pocket rockets. I wonder how
long a NiZn pack would last in the eGPR I got to test ride, with the Alltrax
set at 650A!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for posting your experience. It is extremely valuable and
thankfully, in short supply. I hope others who have accidents pass
along honest assesments even if they are not as flattering to the
owners, as a public service. The information is invaluable, so is
pictures of the damage.
What strikes me is that the EV-ness was not an issue in the accident
or the following discussion. The high voltage and battery acid
boogeymen were nowhere to be seen.
Truly glad you're OK, and enthused not to go out and buy a 5000lb
beast, but to build a new and improved E-Woody!
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All,
> This post was suppost to be an update on my
> E-woody but thursday night coming home from work while
> I was doing 40 mph a speeding fast and furious type
> hit my rearend at about 65mph.
> For those who don't know the E-woody is an all
> wood/epoxy 3 wh 1000lb EV.
> Hate driving at those hours like 3:30am but
> work unloading fuel tankers so have to drive when the
> ship is in. Ironic driving an EV to unload oil
> tankers.
[snip]
Hey, a few drops of that oil will go into repairing your ride.
-GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great story Jerry. Does this qualify as a crash test. Now you have DOT
approval..LOL On a more serious note did you get any of the parts that came
off the other car. Also if you know the make and model you might find this
jerk by the parts needed to repair it. Check the local body shops & parts
stores. It might help if you called the police and talked to the
detectives. Believe it or not they do more for you if you ask. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 8:36 PM
Subject: E-Woody take a hit!
> Hi All,
> This post was suppost to be an update on my
> E-woody but thursday night coming home from work while
> I was doing 40 mph a speeding fast and furious type
> hit my rearend at about 65mph.
> For those who don't know the E-woody is an all
> wood/epoxy 3 wh 1000lb EV.
> Hate driving at those hours like 3:30am but
> work unloading fuel tankers so have to drive when the
> ship is in. Ironic driving an EV to unload oil
> tankers.
> Anyway the small newish car hit the rear at a
> 25mph about closing speed. I was worried!!! I was
> driving a wooden car!!! But I only had about 1/10 sec
> to worry!!!
> Then reality sat in and tried to keep the E-woody
> straight as the hit was pushing the rear sideways. I
> was pressed against my seat first by the impact then
> by the centrifical force of the spin that happened
> next coming to a stop in the turning lane, pissed,
> looked up to see the car drive off with a badly
> damaged frontend and leaking fluids and making strange
> noises. I'm sure they didn't get far but the police
> haven't found it yet. Doubt they looked.
> After the 12 cops finially got there, did the
> paperwork and each stood in front of the e-woody for
> pictures, not for evidence but to keep themselves,
> they tried to force me to use their towtruck but I
> picked up the rear and pulled the rear wheel less
> E-woody onto private property, with permission, until
> I could pick it up today.
> Despite all this I was happy several ways, only a
> slight bump on the head from the rollbar was my only
> bodily injury and some sore mussles in my back and
> neck from the g forces and tensing.
> Another happy thing was my rear crash protection
> worked very well! My first line of defence was my rear
> wheel which took the brunt of the forces first thru
> the trailing arm until the trailing arm forward mounts
> broke then the tire jammed between the rear cabin
> bulkhead, the heavy center frame beam using the
> cushion of the forward and aft parts of the tire.
> There were no intrusions into the cabin.
> I designed, shaped the rear so if hit by a car,
> small truck after the wheel cushioned it, it would
> ramp up onto the hood and the car slide underneath
> which is just what happened!!! Outside the box
> thinking works sometimes. Just didn't partically want
> to test it personally ;-).
> If hit in the side or rear with 2/3 of the weight
> forward it would spin just as it did, spreading the
> forces over time. By putting on the brakes the front
> wheels, one going forward and the other going aft and
> the now wheelless rear dragging brought me gently to a
> stop in 1.5 turns.
> The E-woody stayed flat the whole time. Nice thing
> about having a CG under the 12"(21" dia) wheel's axle
> line!!
> Getting it home today I was amazed that the only
> broken parts seem to be the airlift shock and the
> trailing arm brakets, bolts.
> Also the lower rear wooden right side needs
> replacing and a few joints need epoxy dripped into
> them where some cracks appeared and a new taillight,
> tag.
> The other car will need a whole front clip, hood
> from it's firewall. My center frame beam, floor tore
> it up!! My wheel did in it's bumper, grill and maybe
> went under the car.
> The wooden trailing arm assembly, rear wheel was
> found about 100 yards away and other than some road
> rash, seems to be in good shape so as soon as it gets
> warm, over 65f which may be tomarrow, the bracket will
> be repaired and bolted back up, embedded in epoxy
> where the bolts were ripped out of the body but even
> stronger than before as the extra epoxy handles the
> point loading of the bolts better than pure wood.
> Local auto parts stores carry the Hijacker air shock
> so hopefully be driving Moday or Tuesday.
> The E-Woody was designed for fast cheap repair
> system that I use for my sailboat designs. A little
> wood, epoxy and your on your way. Beats paying
> autobody, boatyard repair bills and waiting for it to
> be done!!
> Then it will be time to test my new generator and
> my new trailer for the woody so it will have unlimited
> range at 55mph and carry a small, 12' sailboat/
> camper/ hauling trailer.
> So apparently a wooden EV can take a licking and
> come out well! Who knew?
> jerry dycus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Basically, if a battery costs $450 per kilowatt hr and an EV uses
333Wh/mile, are we talking about 3 miles range per battery (assuming 100%
DOD)?
If a person wanted to have a range of 45 miles, would a person theoretically
need 15 batteries at a cost of $6750 (100%DOD), or 19 batteries at $8550
(80%DOD)? Would this translate into a 300 mile range for $57,000, assuming
no degradation due to increased weight for 127 batteries?
I looked up the price of a Optima Yellow Top. It was priced at $130 for a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] battery with a 350 cycle limit. Would this translate into $130
for 660 Wh or $196.97/Kwh (~$200/Kwh)? If so, at ~$200/Kwh, the Valence
battery would be 2.25 times more expensive if both had a maximum cycle
rating of 350 cycles.
Would "break even" point be approximately 787.5 cycles (350 times 2.25)?
Are these assumptions realistic?
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 14:02 PM
Subject: price/kWh was Re: Battery Choices
> On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 00:57, David Roden wrote:
> > On 11 Jan 2004 at 0:20, Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> >
> > > 5) In production, they feel that [Valence] can get the consumer
> > > cost "down to
> > > $450.00 per kilowatt hour". [ed. Shouldn't the units be kilowatts?]
> >
> > No, that's correct, appropriate, and common. That's how Saft prices
their
> > nicads - cost per unit of storage capacity.
> >
> > Those who are racing might in fact like to know the cost per Watt of
> > available power, but the "daily driver" folks usually want to know how
much
> > it'll cost them to build an EV with a given real-world range. Cost per
kW-
> > hr gives part of the answer.
> >
>
> This makes me wonder if there is an index available of price per kWh for
> different chemistries/brands?
>
> --
> Martin Klingensmith
> infoarchive.net
> nnytech.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Dekker wrote:
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
> Watching the Rover on TV tonight, it struck me. That’s an EV.
> That’s a pure EV. That’s a solar powered EV.
Spirit performed it's multi-part "stand-up" sequence on
the 10th and is going to leave the lander on Thursday.
The Solar Array provides 140 watts of peek power for four hours a day,
the 1997 Pathfinder rover collected just 16 watts. The rovers require
100 watts to move. It has two Li-Ion rechargable batteries with 6 built
in RHU's to maintain a -20 to +20c temperature range. The batteries
provide power for the rover, including extra heat at night. There are
also 2 additional RHUs (Radioisotope Heater Units), all eight produce
1-watt of continuout heat. These heaters help conserve battery power
durring nights as cold as -96c. It has a radiator system capable of
rejecting 150 watts of waste heat. It is also equipt with a great
insolating gold paint job! Inside the Brains have 128MB of ECC DRAM
and 3MB of EEPROM memory, not bad. It's Pancam Mast is 1.4 meters,
giving the cameras a human perspective. There are four Hazard Cams,
two Navigation Cameras, two Science Cams, and one Microscopic Imager.
The Rover can trek up to 100 meters (1/16th of a mile) each day
durring a four hour window arround high noon. It's top speed is
5cm/sec, 0.11 mph. However it's obstical avoidance software drives
for 10 seconds then stops for 20 to observe and understand the terrain.
It's overall average speed then turns out to be 1cm/sec, 0.024mph.
L8r
Ryan
PS. By my calculations the Rover gets 9600Wh/mile, or
1931Wh/mile if it could travel at top speed continuously.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/spacecraft_surface_rover.html
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/
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On Sunday, January 11, 2004, at 12:56 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
I generally agree with all the suggestions that the "EV list ain't
broke, so don't fix it."
But, there are a few things that the present software doesn't do well
(besides archiving, which it does terribly :-)
I have to agree, with both of these points.
This is a very busy list, often with hundreds of posts per day. It
would
save us all a lot of time reading it if it could be filtered or
'moderated' a bit. I know that a human moderator is unlikely; no one
wants to do it, and no one wants their posts delayed.
But, given the incredible power of modern computers,
"If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we ..."
is there no
software that can:
- Eliminate HTML and other non-ASCII formats, *but* convert what it
finds to plain text?
- Eliminate "unsubscribe" and other messages clearly formatted and
meant to be sent to the listserver, and not the list itself?
- Edit out lengthy repetitions of quoted material (the infamous
"me too" posts that then quotes an entire digest).
- Either send questionable posts back to the sender with a note that
they need changes, or put them in a 'pending' file for a moderator
to examine and decide whether they should be allowed to be posted?
Some of these problems are similar to spam, and are probably amenable
to being handled by anti-spam techniques. The main difference is that
spammers are actively trying to defeat the anti-spam techniques, which
should make our problem easier.
For example, I use a remarkably powerful piece of (free) software
called POPfile to filter my mail. I created several categories
(buckets) such as Spam, Annoying, Virus, and Fraud. Then I set the
software loose on my incoming mail. When it guesses wrong, I correct
it, and it learns. It tags the messages with an X-header according to
the bucket they fall into, and my mail program handles them
appropriately.
It would be possible to train it to recognize the first three types of
messages. I'm not sure what you mean by "questionable posts" -
presumably you mean the message types described (HTML, unsubscribes,
and massive quotations).
POPfile isn't really suitable for a mail list. It's for use on your PC
at home. (Give it a try - it's at http://popfile.sourceforge.net.)
However, I'm sure there are similar packages available for mail
servers. There's a number of anti-spam and anti-virus packages
available that might be coerced into service.
That said, I'm not sure the problem is serious enough that it's worth
using this technology. There's always the chance that it will flag the
wrong posts. I'd hate to miss a post I would have been interested in
reading because I'm afraid of occasionally seeing an unsubscribe, or
because I get tired of hitting the keystroke that displays HTML in text
format. Others will likely disagree, such as those who are on
limited-bandwidth connections or those who have been on the list far
longer than I.
My .02,
Doug
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Later,
Doug
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--- Begin Message ---
Anybody know about this tire ?
Danny..
http://www.dunloptyres.com.hk/e/tyres-pas-lm702.html
New chemical (BCF) is used in tread rubber.
It enables us to develop a good performance
tyre both in low rolling resistance and in
wet grip performance.
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On 11 Jan 2004 at 16:11, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> C can also be used the other way around to indicate a current draw that
> is less than the rated capacity, I.e. C20 basically means capacity
> divided by 20.
This is confusing. I thought that C20 was the current the battery would
deliver for 20 hours. So for your 50 amp hour battery, C20 would indeed be
2.5 amps, but C10 probably wouldn't be 5 amps.
I may very well be wrong about this though. Are there any battery-industry
people here who are willing to clear this up?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Twenty years ago, one out of every six federal tax dollars was
generated by a corporation. That has now fallen to about one out
of every 10.
-- Arianna Huffington, Salon Magazine
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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This list server system works acceptably.
ITS TRIED AND TRUE !
Our EVDL charter is clear.
HTML post are not to be used but we put up with it, its a pain to view
but ascii post is what we agreed on,
its up to subscribers to post properly.
Since hard drives are so cheap archive it yourself.
My local email client Netscape on my home pc has archived nearly 4 years
of EVDL post that's about 60,000 emails it consumes no more than 11 MB
of my hard disk space.
Key word search combined with the (and) (or) logic criteria make
researching post easy enough.
Basic and simple is fine with me.
I say leave it alone.
Danny Ames
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--- Begin Message ---
How many frames per second (day?) can the cameras send back?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lightning Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Mars Rover achieves 1.9 to 9.6 kWh / mile.
> Lee Dekker wrote:
> > * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
> > Watching the Rover on TV tonight, it struck me. That’s an EV.
> > That’s a pure EV. That’s a solar powered EV.
>
> Spirit performed it's multi-part "stand-up" sequence on
> the 10th and is going to leave the lander on Thursday.
>
> The Solar Array provides 140 watts of peek power for four hours a day,
> the 1997 Pathfinder rover collected just 16 watts. The rovers require
> 100 watts to move. It has two Li-Ion rechargable batteries with 6 built
> in RHU's to maintain a -20 to +20c temperature range. The batteries
> provide power for the rover, including extra heat at night. There are
> also 2 additional RHUs (Radioisotope Heater Units), all eight produce
> 1-watt of continuout heat. These heaters help conserve battery power
> durring nights as cold as -96c. It has a radiator system capable of
> rejecting 150 watts of waste heat. It is also equipt with a great
> insolating gold paint job! Inside the Brains have 128MB of ECC DRAM
> and 3MB of EEPROM memory, not bad. It's Pancam Mast is 1.4 meters,
> giving the cameras a human perspective. There are four Hazard Cams,
> two Navigation Cameras, two Science Cams, and one Microscopic Imager.
>
> The Rover can trek up to 100 meters (1/16th of a mile) each day
> durring a four hour window arround high noon. It's top speed is
> 5cm/sec, 0.11 mph. However it's obstical avoidance software drives
> for 10 seconds then stops for 20 to observe and understand the terrain.
> It's overall average speed then turns out to be 1cm/sec, 0.024mph.
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
> PS. By my calculations the Rover gets 9600Wh/mile, or
> 1931Wh/mile if it could travel at top speed continuously.
> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/spacecraft_surface_rover.html
> http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I've been talking to a guy with two Prii, a Gen2 and a Gen3 (04),
who has added additional Pb-A capacity to both cars. It appears that
he simply connects the additional pack in parallel upon startup.
The Gen3 has a 201.6v Ni-MH pack and he is using a string of 12v
gel-somethings, 18 of them for 216volts nominal. So depending on
how low the Ni-MH pack is allowed to go, I'm guessing about 1.1vpc
or 184v, at which point the Pb-A is at it's low point 10.5v (1.75vpc).
I don't think he is charging externally, but if he were at 14.5v
the PB-A pack would be 0.4vpc above the Ni-MH pack nominal level.
Is this safe for Ni-MH cells? It looks pretty good to me.
168 * 1.7v = 285.6v | 18 * 14.5v = 261v
168 * 1.6v = 268.8v | 18 * 14.0v = 252v
168 * 1.5v = 252.0v | 18 * 13.5v = 243v
168 * 1.4v = 235.2v | 18 * 13.0v = 234v
168 * 1.3v = 218.4v | 18 * 12.5v = 225v
168 * 1.2v = 201.6v | 18 * 12.0v = 216v
168 * 1.1v = 184.8v | 18 * 11.5v = 207v
168 * 1.0v = 168.0v | 18 * 11.0v = 198v
168 * 0.9v = 151.2v | 18 * 10.5v = 189v
His Pb-A pack is 7.2Ah, compaired to the stock 6.5Ah Ni-MH Pack.
He sais that it interacts with the stock systems just fine.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/2004-prius/message/29437
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/2004-prius/message/29830
Neil Gover wrote:
>This switch would enable drivers to travel in the no-fuel areas in some
congested cities in Europe and Japan.
Maybe it would have gone over better as a "Golf Course Switch" or such.
L8r
Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
>From what I've read on this list and my own personal experiences,
there are no batteries warranted for EV use, aside perhaps from
those Delphis and Panasonics that were found in the EV1 and RAV-4
(however, the warranty is probably voided if you don't use a
"factory approved" battery-management system). My EV and many
others on the EVDL use 6V golf car batteries, such as the US125
or Trojan T125. I don't think any of these manufacturers will
honor a warranty if they find that the battery has been through
EV use. (One exception may be local battery distributors, since
I recall Bruce Parmenter was able to get some replacements for
problem US145 batteries in his pack.) The EV market (at least
the hobbyist market) doesn't account for much if anything to the
battery manufacturers, and they're very unlikely to warranty
batteries that they find have undergone severe EV usage.
If memory serves me correctly, people like Bill Dube and Roderick
Wilde were able to obtain the Bolder and Johnson Inspira battery
(sponsorships) for a short time (late '90s, early 2000s), but I
believe most of that has passed. The Inspiras were pressed into
jump starters and tool service, and Bolder folded, didn't they?
The EV market was irrelevant.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Choices
> When you are buying batterys for your EV which will be driven
more than 10
> miles at one time, you should ask the battery company
technician or
> engineering if it is design for that type of EV.
>
> In selecting a battery which are designated for golf carts,
these are high
> ampere short drive times with rest periods. With the standard
spade terminal
> that bolts down by a top stud, they will tend to melt back a
bit or loss 5
> inches of torque per 5 miles.
>
> If the terminal post connections are not check every 5 to 10
miles, you may
> vaporized a battery post like I did many times.
>
> Retorqing the terminals in trying to maintain the recommended
torque value,
> cause the battery terminal to mushroom and studs pull out with
some battery
> companys.
>
> When you tried to get a warrenty repair for bad terminals, THEY
SAY THESE
> BATTERYS ARE NOT DESIGN FOR A ELECTRIC VEHICLE. Then I say,
why did you
> sell them to me.
>
> When you buy a set of batterys, tell them what you are going to
used them
> for and get it writing that they can be used for your EV.
>
[snip]
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(GM plans hybrids of popular brands)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.lsj.com/news/business/040110_cowger_1a-5a.html
Published January 10, 2004
GM plans hybrids of popular brands
Low-emission vehicles are on drawing boards
By Barbara Wieland
Lansing State Journal
DETROIT - General Motors Corp.' first electric car, made at the
Lansing Craft Centre, was not a resounding success.
About 1,100 electric EV1 cars made between 1996 and 1999 were
leased, not sold, to drivers.
A year ago, GM scrapped the program, gathered the cars and
destroyed them.
But that doesn't mean the automaker has turned its back on low-
or no-emission cars, said Gary Cowger, president of GM North
America.
Speaking at the Detroit Auto Show, Cowger said GM is gearing up
to introduce low-emission varieties of vehicles that are already
sales hits, such as the Chevrolet Silverado.
The auto show opens to the public today.
"If you're really going to get the fuel economy savings, then go
to what people are buying and where fuel is being used," he
said.
Cowger sees a future where internal combustion engine-propelled
cars sit in showrooms along with fuel cell cars that run on
hydrogen and emit nothing but water vapor.
But before the first fuel cell vehicle reaches dealer lots, GM
will produce a series of hybrid vehicles. Hybrids use a
traditional gas-burning engine for acceleration and starting and
an electric engine for other tasks.
GM isn't the first to bring a hybrid vehicle to market; the
Toyota Prius, Honda's Insight and Civic hybrid already hold that
honor.
But GM is leading the race to be the first to sell a hybrid truck
to the general public. Already, a hybrid version of the Chevrolet
Silverado is available through fleet sales; it reaches the public
later this year.
Toyota also is rushing ahead with plans to sell a hybrid version
of the Highlander SUV by 2005.
"They're finally realizing our strategy of going (hybrid) on
pickup trucks first is probably the right one," Cowger said.
By 2007, GM will have the capacity to make 1 million hybrids - if
the public wants them.
Therein lies the question: Will people be willing to pay $3,000
extra to get their hands on a hybrid version of their favorite
vehicle?
"The trouble with hybrids is you're paying for two power trains.
So, it's going to cost you 3,000 bucks just from the get-go,"
Cowger said.
If history is any indication, many will pay the premium.
There's an eight-month waiting list to buy a Prius from Spartan
Toyota in Lansing, said salesman Wayne Lacy.
He's not worried about competition from GM.
"This is the third-generation Prius," he said of the current
model on sale. "They're just starting out."
Lacy said there's a limited market for hybrid vehicles at this
time. Those who buy a hybrid are usually motivated by ecological
concerns or potential savings on fuel costs.
As more hybrids reach showrooms, he expects interest in the
low-pollution vehicles to grow.
Contact Barbara Wieland at 267-1348 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
=====
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Mitsubishi Eclipse hybrid)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.pantagraph.com/stories/010904/bus_20040109004.shtml
Friday, January 9, 2004 Mitsubishi shows off concept car
By Kathy McKinney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
NORMAL -- Mitsubishi's new Eclipse-based gasoline/electric hybrid
car is a look to the future. Whether that future will include
production in Normal remains undecided. The Eclipse Concept-E,
introduced this week at Detroit's North American International
Auto Show, uses gasoline and electric engines. A gasoline engine
provides power to the front axles, an electric motor powers the
rear axles, Mitsubishi Motor North America said.
The Eclipse is made at the MMNA plant in Normal, but it is too
early to say if the all-wheel-drive gas/electric car will be
produced there, the company said.
"It's just a concept car," said Dan Irvin, plant spokesman. "The
next generation Eclipse will be built in Normal. Whether it will
look like the concept is unknown."
But, Dan Sims, general manager of the Mitsubishi Design America
Studios in Cypress, Calif., said the Eclipse concept car was
intended as a demonstration of how the parallel power systems
would work. "It is feasible. I wouldn't rule it out," Sims said
of future use of the hybrid power system.
Mitsubishi announced at the Tokyo Auto Show in October that it
will be entering the hybrid market, said Sims. The Eclipse
Concept-E is a demonstration of how hybrid technology can be used
to boost performance, as well as improve efficiency.
"We build spirited cars for spirited people," said Sims, quoting
one of Mitsubishi's slogans. "We wanted to excite the enthusiast.
Hybrids now are not performance oriented. We wanted to show how
you can use it in an enthusiast's way."
Designers wanted to have some fun and try some things, and the
hybrid powertrain is part of that, he said. Other aspects of the
Concept-E, such as three-dimensional instruments and a special
paint that subtly changes color in different light, could find
their way into future vehicles.
The new production version of the Eclipse -- to be made in Normal
in 2005 for the 2006 model year -- likely will have some of the
look of the Concept-E, said Sims, calling it a "sneak peek" of
the exterior and interior design.
As for a production hybrid, that is a business decision that has
not been made, said Sims.
Because of the hybrid system, called E-Boost, the Concept-E
delivers continuous power even while it changes gears. "The
Eclipse Concept-E suggests that performance and fuel efficiency
need not be mutually exclusive," said Ulrich Walker, executive
vice president of Mitsubishi Motors Corp.
Sims said the concept car is expected to get about the same
gasoline mileage as an ordinary V-6 engine, about 22 miles per
gallon in town and 25 mpg on the road. The electric motor
provides standby power for merging onto a highway or accelerating
to pass.
The Eclipse Concept-E's front wheels are powered by a 3.8-liter
V-6 engine, while the rear wheels are powered by a rear-mounted
electric motor which provides an additional 200 horsepower, for a
total 470 horsepower. Because it is not affected by gear changes,
the rear motor gives the concept car a constant source of power
when it's needed.
-
=====
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