EV Digest 3345
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: ampabout - new batts
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Killing Raptors and T-Rexs, should I be concerned?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: ADC commutator bonding specs
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: ADC commutator bonding specs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: AC/DC hybrid drive combo?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=642
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AC/DC hybrid drive combo? (was Re: Fisher Fury EV Concept)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AC/DC hybrid drive combo? (was Re: Fisher Fury EV Concept)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV digest 3007
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Sparrow reborn, Comments
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ADC commutator bonding specs
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: AC/DC hybrid drive combo? (was Re: Fisher Fury EV Concept)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV digest 3007
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: ADC commutator bonding specs
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: motor terminals
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: ADC commutator bonding specs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Sparrow reborn, Comments
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) OT-Re: Oxygen and oil
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Sparrow reborn
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: ADC commutator bonding specs
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Sparrow reborn, Comments
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Murray wrote:
>
> has anyone EVER fried a zilla? and what makes the zilla so much more
> robust than a DCP anyway? I imagine obviously different/more
> FETs/IGBTs, but are we talking different transistor packages as well,
> like to247 vs isotop or anything? better heatsinking? greatly
> overrated diodes etc? better current monitoring? electrically curious,
>
> seth
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> '72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
I will let Otmar take that one... I know but...I have the chip on my
shoulder....I need to give it a rest.
Come on Otmar...critical review of a obsolete out of production
design....
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it is a new year, but it has not been a year.
I remember replacing my pack just a few months ago,
before the winter months.
But my new 132 VDC pack is doing fine. I have the
PFC-50 charger set to 171 and I my battery warmers
set to 80 F.
I am seeing more ahs being used during the cold or
wet mornings. I am thinking it is the tires not
low-rolling-resistant types).
Most of my charging is a 7 amp flow, but occasionally
I do pump 75 amps for a fast charge.
Cell water checks are at the end/beginning of the
month. The last two showed barely any water used. I
remember only using about a cup of distilled water. I
had a few celling in the front that were lower than
the rest. And I could have just waited a month. New
batteries, when charged correctly, do not use much
water.
Yes, my pack is doing fine. But now that you asked,
I have made a metal note to plan for a battery check
before I do the next watering.
I will throughly charge the pack, let it rest for a
day, and then take voltage and Specific Gravity
readings. If I have a weak battery, I want to find
it sooner, rather than later.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Murray wrote:
>
> With all this talk of killing Raptors and T-Rexes, I am, like Ben A.
> growing slightly nervous about installing a 1000A T-Rex in my 192
> (maybe 240V) 240Z with the full intention of beating the crap out of
> the controller with my foot on the floor all the time. When I began my
> conversion DCP had just stopped production and Otmar had not yet
> announced the Zilla. In an oh-god-I-can't-use-a-cursit-in-my-z-car
> panic , I bought the first T-Rex I could find. A week or two later,
> the zillas were announced. crap. Again, I have every intention of
> sucking as many amps as I possibly can as often as possible. I know
> you can't tell for sure, but how likely do you guys (rich?) think I am
> of toasting the T-Rex by treating it like this at 192V? In that case,
> anyone interested in buying it for a lower power conversion? When it
> lets go, will it go peacefully, or will it plaster my under-hood with
> black smoke? here's wanting a zilla,
>
> Seth
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> '72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
Run it like we designed it, when the end comes, count your days and be
happy.
Umm yes the Zorch marks are rather hard to clean up.....
I will run mine in the Fiero until it expires. Then it's Zilla 2k time.
Oh yea the T-Rex 1000 did put the hurt on my Kostov 11 incher.... they
are not that Whimpy.
The Raptor 1200 could get the front tires air borne on the front end of
the Fiero... AMPS!!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
>
> Hi All, I just got a response from Advanced DC concerning their commutators
> which are made by one of their sister companies. SERMED is located in
> France.
>
> Roderick,
> I have received a response from SERMED and it states the following:
> The molding compound that we use will survive a 220 C temperature for a
> rating of 50 hours.
> Its lifetime is a minimum of 20,000 hours at a temperature of 170 C. I have
> received a specification sheet from our manufacturer that lists other
> mechanical, electrical, and physical properties but nothing that jumps out
> as answering what temperature will lead to a destructive failure of our
> commutator. I guess a person could use some assumptions that the
> temperature would easily be in excess of 250 C for a reasonably long period
> of time prior to a weakening of the compound's integrity leading to the
> commutator failure. Other things that can happen would be to break a weld
> due to high current draws or poor welding at the armature winding and
> commutator bar interface. Either way its clearly in excess of the Class H
> rating of the remainder of the motor component's if the commutator molding
> is above 250 C..
>
> Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
> Your Online EV Superstore
> www.evparts.com
> 1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
> Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
> PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
> Port Townsend, WA 98368
Nice data Rod!!
180C is class H hot spot specs. 220 C on the comm is also a nice
number.
350 Deg F is a LOT hotter than I am going to let any AvDC motor get even
near!!!!!
Dennis lost a comm at 130 Deg F....surface temp. He is betting that the
core of the Comm was a LOT hotter than what was evident.
As I recall his magic Comm came from France also.....it's a buildt up
comm.
For a record setting lauch, the colder the better!!! There are places in
a motor that you can't measure the temp of. And it counts!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most of the bars that came off the comm.during CEs armature failure did show
blue in copper surrounding the bonding material,they must have been very warm
at some point. D.Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
...
> I'd say the inverter synthesizes low-frequency variable-voltage AC by
> PWMing the DC pack voltage. The inductance of the motor filters this PWM
> signal to produce a nearly sinusoidal current in the motor windings.
>
> Motor speed is (mainly) set by the frequency being synthesized. Torque
> is set (mainly) by the slip angle and AC voltage being synthesized.
Torque is set by the motor current, The motor current is set by
the voltage on the stator. Since the voltage of the battery is fixed,
the motor voltage can only be changed by PWMing battery voltage
(frequency is fixed). So the windings ONLY see 6 kHz (or whatever)
frequency and their inductance must be low enough to still allow
decent current through them. So if you connect 60 Hz to it,
there is practically only Ohmic resistance at this frequency.
Of course, if you apply only 50V (60 Hz) to a 400V motor, probably
nothing drastic will happen.
> > It will spin, but it will not work for moving EV purposes.
>
> I'm not planning to move the EV here. I just want to use it as a
> conventional AC motor to spin the DC generator which is doing the
> battery charging. The amount of AC line power available is almost
> certainly a lot less than the motor's rated power.
...
>
> Suppose you connect a Siemens AC traction motor's 'A', 'B', and 'C'
> phase lines to the AC powerline with a big variac and capacitor like
> this:
>
> AC hot______ _________
> |_ | _|_
> _| /__|__A ___ AC "run" capacitor
> variac _| \ \ | 10-100uF
> _| \_____|
> _| / C
> AC neutral__|_________/B
>
> Turn up the variac so the motor winding current is safely within specs
> for normal operation. I'll bet you the motor will start and run as a
> perfectly normal induction motor. It will be smooth, quiet, and won't
> overheat.
It will run, but performance and efficiency will be very poor.
You certainly can do it, if those parameters aren't relevant
for your application, but it is a waste: EV motors are so expensive
namely because they are optimized to work well in the specific
conditions you will not use. I think industrial 60 Hz motor
is practically better for this purpose.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen wrote:
>
> > >> I like this idea... Now consider; you have a large AC/DC
> > >> motor-generator onboard! The AC motor can certainly be
> > >> connected directly to 120/208/240vac.
> >
> > Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > > NO!
> > > Well, depends on the motor. A washing machine one - sure.
> > > An EV motor with low inductance for high frequency operation
> > > will burn out quite quickly at 60 Hz.
> I'm going to agree with Lee on this one. There is no reason why a
> higher-frequency rated motor should have any trouble running at a lower
> frequency. Not taht I'm going to go try it with QM's motor - but I feel sure
> it would work if I did. After all, if 400 hz = 10k rpm, then each hz = 25
> rpm. That means at 1500 rpm.. a pretty typical speed for me to cruise up my
> street at if I'm in third which I most of the time am - my motor is running
> off 60 hz. And the temp sensors say the motor isn't even getting warm.
Oh, yes, like I said, it will spin. You just turn a 30 kW motor
supplied from 380 PWM'ed volts into spec Lee specified:
- 64 Vac
- 9 Kw
- 1800 rpm
- 60 Hz
So you get 30% of rated power, not taking advantage of 12k RPM
and very low torque. How low can be calculated.
If you call it "it will work", then sure, it will.
It's just a waste.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>
..
> What Victor is saying, is a 60 hz motor will get hurt by the 15Khz
> fundamental. Probably not.
No major issues Rich.
It's opposite, I said EV motor wound to accept only 6 kHz will get
hurt by applying 60 Hz to it *if you still want to take out rated
power*.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Brush advance has very little effect on efficiency at the small
>> advance angles normally used to control arcing (5-10 degrees).
>> Large changes in brush advance have a progressively larger effect
>> on the torque-speed curves and efficiency.
Rich Rudman wrote:
> It has a massive effect when you are running the motor
> at 10 to 20 times its nameplate power levels.
I think we are in agreement, Rich. I was speaking of normal operating
conditions, where you don't stray too far away from nameplate ratings.
You are talking about high power conditions at several times the motor's
rated voltage and current.
> I don't think you really have a grasp of how far and fast the
> timing goes to hell on most of our street driven EV motors.
I agree completely! I've never run any of my motors at over 2x rated
voltage, or 3x rated current (and certainly not both at the same time).
But you have! :-)
> Since you are one of our esteamed EV list Gurus with LOTS of math
> and text book training, Care to do the math on where the brushes
> "Should be". At any given load and RPM?
Ah, but it's one of those pesky "real world" problems! In theory, the
brushes don't need to be advanced, or wouldn't move. But in practice,
the iron saturates, the magnetic fields warp, and things get very
twisted! You can't calculate it. You have to experiment!
> Please don't just quote the "Very little effect" Dogma. It has a
> very large effect at amps over 500, and voltages over 120 VDC.
> It's what kills Sparrow motors and eats controllers.
Remember, I said the brush advance has very little effect on
*efficiency*. But the whole point of brush advance is that it has a BIG
effect on arcing, reliability, and the motor's torque-speed
characteristics! You adjust the brushes for all these latter reasons;
not for efficiency!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
>
>
> Sorry to spoil your morning surprise, but there is no new Sparrow startup
> company.
> There is only a collection of empty body shells and assorted parts left over
> from
> the Corbin bankruptcy and two or three people trying to identify the stuff
> and make
> some use of it.
>
> Tom Shay
Wrong Tom.
If you are out of the loop Then at least be polite.
I have cleared checks that say they are straight and honest and trying
to set things straight.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Most of the bars that came off the comm.during CEs armature failure did show
> blue in copper surrounding the bonding material,they must have been very warm
> at some point. D.Berube
Nice data point Dennis!!
Forensic electronics... finding the problems by looking at the pieces.
Blue copper is REALLY hot copper!!
Could this be from the Tig welding that was done in assembly?? Or only
from high currents on the track??
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> ..
> > What Victor is saying, is a 60 hz motor will get hurt by the 15Khz
> > fundamental. Probably not.
>
> No major issues Rich.
>
> It's opposite, I said EV motor wound to accept only 6 kHz will get
> hurt by applying 60 Hz to it *if you still want to take out rated
> power*.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
Ok I am seeing your lack of thought.... slight..but significant..
The motors won't care about the 6Khz PWM it cares about the 60Hz or the
rotational Hertz, NOT the base PWM.
This in fact is NOT true. The only thing that decides this is the
Laminations of the stator. They are made to take up to 6Khz of ripple,
Less Hz is less stress.
The windings are not effected by the 6 Khz.
The first turn of a coil may be effected by the 6Khz. But the rest of
the motor doesn't care. This is solved by keeping the motor close to the
inverter. Like a few feet instead of the industrial applications where
the motor control contactors may be 100s of ft away in the control room.
The first turn of each coil can get up to 2x the line voltage applied if
the motor lead inductaces are not dealt with. There was a nice article
in PCIM a few years ago regarding this. It basicly stated that with the
higher PWM Freqs of the late 90s, this effect has been minimised. Also
getting inverter grade winding solved this completely. I have a couple
that are tagged as such. I assume the Solectria Buss motor has these
specs. I KNOW your Siemans motors are even better than this.
You are getting the eddy losses of the steel lams confused with the
base PWM frequency, and the rotation Frequency. The coils could be
effected by the rise and fall times of the 6Khz drive PWM. "Could be"
What really matters here is the speed of the Rotation of the motor. a
industrial motor wants to see 60Hz and make 1800 rpm at it's design and
base Freq. OK that's simple. Running a motor that is optimised for 60 Hz
at 200 Hz is going to push the lams into a heavy eddy loss area of thier
design. This would cause problems. IF and only IF the motor was run at
these high speeds for long periods of time and at high currents. Running
a Stock high eff 60Hz motor at 1800 rpm off the Sieman's 6Khz inverter
would have NO bad effect as long as the motor lead cables are a few ft
long and no longer.
Running the same motor at 200 hz or 6000 rpm would over heat it even
with low amp loads. Again done for short blasts, is not harmfull.
You 45 Kw drive motor run at full current off of 60 hz with NO pwm
componet(Grid smooth) will be running in a very safe and low stress area
of it's SOA.
60 Hz grid is better for the 200 Hz motor than the inverter feed that it
was designed to.
Example:
Minibike from Hell motor. Made for 400 watt 300 rpm windmill
alternator use. 12 poles(6 pole pair) Feed it 60 Hz and you get 600 rpm.
Even at 8 Kw, it just gets warm from the Copper windings outwards. You
can feel the windings getting hot... 175 amps does this rather well....
Now take this same setup, and unload it... No dyno just a free shaft
spin, and take to 10,000 rpm or 1000hz AC freq. Blip the throttle, it
only sucks about 20 amps, and the steel lams get hot like right NOW!,
darn near faster than the copper overheats from IR2 losses. Pretty
amazing!!!
This shows that the steel lams are not even in the ball park for this
Freq. They are the really thin ones, suppossedly the good stuff steel. I
have no specs, wish I did.
This gets funny when you see folks selling 12 magnet BLDC motors and
quoting 8000 rpm specs, and hang times at amp rating that I know will
over heat the motors in seconds. I found that the effects are almost
unmeasureable below about 4000 rpm.
In the Ac drive arena... we have found that if you keep rpm(AC freq)
less than 3x what the motor was designed for, the eddy current losses in
the stator are reasonable.
Tripple clocking a 3600 RPM motor is a great way to have the Aluminum in
the rotor to "Leak out" through the Steel lam stack of the Stator....And
tripple clocking a 1800 rpm motor gives you a nice ICE drive line
compatable 5400 rpm. With the better steels and lam thickness of the "EV
invertor class" motor you can clock the motors to 12K in the Siemans
drives. This is 6.67 times the base freq at 60 Hz. Good stuff Steel. The
Soletria unit is good to 8000 with field weakening... for a 4.4 over
clocking of the base speed. Clearly the Siemans motor is the better
engineered motor. And is priced as such. Water cooled.... about 80 lbs
lighter than the AC55, and a LOT smaller...Drool! Also let keep in mind
that the AC55 is a 78 Kw unit totally enclosed fan cooled motor. The
Siemans is a 45 Kw water cooled unit that looks like it could double for
the Gravity generators on the Starship Enterprise!
Gotta build green boxes... sigh!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
Ok in the total agrement up to this point.
>
> Remember, I said the brush advance has very little effect on
> *efficiency*. But the whole point of brush advance is that it has a BIG
> effect on arcing, reliability, and the motor's torque-speed
> characteristics! You adjust the brushes for all these latter reasons;
> not for efficiency!
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
HUmmm or should all the 4th node also be efficiency???
Arcing, reliability, torque/speed ratios, and efficiency.
I think it matters almost as much as the air gap does.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about actively cooling the comm bars? Drill a hole in the tail shaft,
and some small holes out thru the comm bars. Use a rotary coupler on the
tail shaft to shoot some liquid CO2 into it. The cold gas coming out thru
the comm bars should cool them and the comm bar, brush interface. Keeping
O2 out of that area may also be usefull.
Andre' B.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 4:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ADC commutator bonding specs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Most of the bars that came off the comm.during CEs armature failure did
show
> blue in copper surrounding the bonding material,they must have been very
warm
> at some point. D.Berube
Nice data point Dennis!!
Forensic electronics... finding the problems by looking at the
pieces.
Blue copper is REALLY hot copper!!
Could this be from the Tig welding that was done in assembly?? Or only
from high currents on the track??
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 6:05 AM
Subject: motor terminals
> Hi, all. I inquired about the type of motor (i.e. PM, series, shunt,
etc.)
> for item 10-1809 at surpluscenter.com. Here is their response:
SNIP!!
> But the big question is: What's the third terminal for???
David, could it be a ground term? I see this all the time in aircraft
motors. Especially when it is at the other end of the motor from the
brushes. Take a look at the Pesco Aircraft motor I advertise on the Tradin
post. It is a series motor as well and has the ground lug towards the shaft
end. Hopefully the pic shows what I am talking about. David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> How about actively cooling the comm bars? Drill a hole in the tail
> shaft, and some small holes out thru the comm bars. Use a rotary
> coupler on the tail shaft to shoot some liquid CO2 into it. The
> cold gas coming out thru the comm bars should cool them and the
> comm bar, brush interface. Keeping O2 out of that area may also be
> usefull.
Good luck getting liquid CO2 - there is no such thing (at least at anything
close to atmospheric pressure). CO2 gas skips a liquid state and goes
straight to solid (dry ice).
-----------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile Radio Operations
Southern California Edison Co.
Ofc: 626-302-8515 - PAX 28-515
FAX: 626-302-7501 - PAX 27-501
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Sparrow reborn, Comments
> Tom Shay wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Sorry to spoil your morning surprise, but there is no new Sparrow
startup
> > company.
> > There is only a collection of empty body shells and assorted parts left
over
> > from
> > the Corbin bankruptcy and two or three people trying to identify the
stuff
> > and make
> > some use of it.
> >
> > Tom Shay
>
> Wrong Tom.
>
> If you are out of the loop Then at least be polite.
> I have cleared checks that say they are straight and honest and trying
> to set things straight.
Rich, I'd like to be wrong about this. I'd like to believe that the Sparrow
is being reborn. I'd like to believe that there is a group of people ready
and willing and able to take on and conquer the serious design, financial
and logistic obstacles to restarting production. I'd like to believe that
important progress has been made. I'd like to hear you or someone else
tell us what is happening.
I didn't intend to be impolite or to suggest that people involved with the
Sparrow are not straight and honest and trying to set things straight.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lonnie Borntreger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Evlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Oxygen and oil
> Holy s**t!! (sorry, couldn't resist) :-D
>
> But seriously, that's a s**tload (oops, there I go again) of manure.
> Exactly what were your plans for it? And better yet, what was your
> source?
Politicians? LOL, what do you think. Mostly horses, got started from a big
load received from a local horse track. Then got a couple of cattle
operations clean out...It kinda just took on a life of its own from there.
Actually could have been quite a business if I hadn't had a s***head for a
partner.
> That takes a LOT of cattle (or time) to "stockpile" (get it... stock ...
> pile ... it's a farmer joke. ok, I'm done).
Tell me about it, I used to have to go out with a loader and turn the stuff
over at least 3 days a week. Never could quite get caught up. Took up most
of 7-8 acres 20-30 foot deep. I designed a giant 4 cyl snoblower attachment
for the loader but it never seemed to get built. I also designed a hopper
and semi-auto bagger but my partner had his workers bagging it up hand over
fist manually. I wanted to run the thing with 2 or 3 workers paid a fair
wage. He wanted to use 8-10 uhh "undocumented" workers paid squat. He won
the argument. We should probably let this thread die now or take it OL,
before it offends someone. Regards, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Sparrow reborn
> I read the home page for Phoenix, though, and what I saw there doesn't
give
> me a whole lot of confidence for the future of this operation. Not sure I
> can explain why, it's just a notion. Keep your fingers crossed.
>
Hi David,
I'm feeling a little shaky about it too. I hope that it's just the sour
aftertaste of the last batch of lemonade we were served in the EV Communtiy
with these products.
BTW, what city is PEM located in?
Regards,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andre Blanchard wrote:
>
> How about actively cooling the comm bars? Drill a hole in the tail shaft,
> and some small holes out thru the comm bars. Use a rotary coupler on the
> tail shaft to shoot some liquid CO2 into it. The cold gas coming out thru
> the comm bars should cool them and the comm bar, brush interface. Keeping
> O2 out of that area may also be usefull.
>
> Andre' B.
>
NO NO NO!!! messing with them is a short road to trouble. Weakening the
saft is Not a smart route.
Back off the amps , let cool, do it again.
Simple ideas here need to be really well thought out, and a practical
thing, not just what could be done.
We have pumped most of a lake full of fresh water into them... with no
major effects....
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 2:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Sparrow reborn, Comments
>
> > Tom Shay wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry to spoil your morning surprise, but there is no new Sparrow
> startup
> > > company.
> > > There is only a collection of empty body shells and assorted parts left
> over
> > > from
> > > the Corbin bankruptcy and two or three people trying to identify the
> stuff
> > > and make
> > > some use of it.
> > >
> > > Tom Shay
> >
> > Wrong Tom.
> >
> > If you are out of the loop Then at least be polite.
> > I have cleared checks that say they are straight and honest and trying
> > to set things straight.
>
> Rich, I'd like to be wrong about this. I'd like to believe that the Sparrow
> is being reborn. I'd like to believe that there is a group of people ready
> and willing and able to take on and conquer the serious design, financial
> and logistic obstacles to restarting production. I'd like to believe that
> important progress has been made. I'd like to hear you or someone else
> tell us what is happening.
>
> I didn't intend to be impolite or to suggest that people involved with the
> Sparrow are not straight and honest and trying to set things straight.
Tom they are hounding me for a PFC30 and a set of MK2 regs with the
Regbuss. A full system.
I have to be carfull since I am inside the loop and I don't want to
mess up the client/supplier relationship.
They are trying, and they have the brains that tried the hardest to help
the first timer around. Yea I will really cheer when they drive a new
one out the door.
I will be in heaven should a Manzanita Green one appear in my
driveway.
They have the will and it looks like the funding, and the tallent for
the EV side.Can they get the sales and production efforts on line????
Time will tell.
I definatley need to correct them on the recharge time with one of my
chargers..... Even off of 120VDC a PFC30 will take less than 2 hours to
fill a set of Yts or Orbitals. At 240 it's like a hour and change even
with a fully discharged pack. More like 20 to 30 minutes with %50 DOD.
Of course this takes longer should the pack be something greater than
Lead Acid AGMs.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
