EV Digest 3353
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Carbon pile?Really!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Curtis Current Ramp.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) OT:RE: Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Wife driving the electric...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Why not Truck Reduction Gears?
by Jeff Dubrule <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Curtis Current Ramp.
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
by "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Carbon pile?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Did I torch my new old EV meter?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Curtis Current Ramp.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wife driving the electric...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Did I torch my new old EV meter?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Wife driving the electric...
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Sparrow reborn
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: AllTrax Controller Experienc
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Is this mad? (Re: AC/DC hybrid drive combo?)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Wife driving the electric...
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Sparrow reborn
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: AC/DC hybrid drive combo? (regen charger)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Tour de Sol: May 21-25, as planned - but the logistics have changed
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: death of a DCP raptor - Schottky's
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) GEM resale
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Is this mad? (Re: AC/DC hybrid drive combo?)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
What exactly is "conformal coating"?
I've heard various places that it adds resistance to moisture. Or to
heat. Or to cold. Or to the flu. Does one get a bucket of Conformal and
paint it on a PC board?
Otmar wrote:
> ... It seems that the boards had
not been properly cleaned before the conformal coating step. That was
unfortunate because it was hard to tell if it was a design or
manufacturing problem.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim, an All;
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: Carbon pile?
> I came upon an automotive alternator tester headed for the trash... the
> control panel with pretty meters and such is now in my basement.
> What a fun find!
> It includes some sort of stack of gray discs that get squished together
> tighter as the "load" control knob is turned up. Is this a 'carbon pile'
> that I have heard referred to in the past?
> Yup! That's the animal! We had then on RR cars for generator field
regulation , I think, in cars built by the Pullman Co.when I first came on
the electrical RR scene. BOY! THAT dates me! Cars had an axle turned
generator, belt driven off the car's axle. Faster ya went, the brighter the
lights if you didn't have some sort of reg. Down side these piles got damn
hot! As they are only a resister, like a nicrome wire, in the summer that
electrical locker got pretty warm.Often they were in the car's vestabule,
easy access.
> The meter goes up to 300 amps... if this is a carbon pile, what are it's
> likely limits? How long can it be under load?
> Squeeze harder, hoow much would ya like, up to " Dead Short" mode!But ya
need a good blowsy fan to cool it, or to heat yur shop<g>!
>
> Picture of the potential carbon pile:
> http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/tester_carbon.jpg
>
> and of the complete tester unit:
> http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/tester_front.jpg
> http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/tester_back.jpg
>
> The rest of the tester consisted of a case with a 220 VAC motor inside
> with a pulley and belt to spin the alternator under test.
> Just hada look, interesting piece of gear. Tony Ascrizzi would sure like
it for his electrical Hardware Museum in his cellar!Along with that artful
roundy contacter controller all ready there.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You can have Golf Tech rebuild your curtis
controller without the
ramp-up (hi pot?).
Is it possible to get rid of that horribly current
ramp ?
I had to replace that pot once already because it
failed mechanically, so the controller has already
been opened up and I know where to look for the
current ramp pot. Can i just replace it with a lower
(or higher) ohm resistor ?
Does one of you guys who has reverse engineered this
controller know what it would take to eliminate (or
atleast steepen) the current ramp ? Or is it an
inherent limit of the controller ?
Otmar, if you tell me how to do this, I promise that
when i save $2k i will buy a Z1k :)
thanks
~fortunat
Hi Fortunat,
Yes the ramp can easily be removed if you open it up.
It may not be the same on your model (which model do you have?) but
usually it's C7 that you have to pull to remove the annoying ramp.
It's a 47uF cap that's usually yellow and located pretty near the
acceleration adjustment pot.
hth
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Conformal coating a coating put on circuit boards. Commercially the material is
usually polyurathane and provides electrical isolation from things like dropped tools,
stray wire clippings, spilled coffee (in small amounts!). It provides some moisture
resistance, but that is not it's primary purpose.
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Coate [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
What exactly is "conformal coating"?
I've heard various places that it adds resistance to moisture. Or to
heat. Or to cold. Or to the flu. Does one get a bucket of Conformal and
paint it on a PC board?
Otmar wrote:
> ... It seems that the boards had
> not been properly cleaned before the conformal coating step. That was
> unfortunate because it was hard to tell if it was a design or
> manufacturing problem.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My wife *loves* the EV. But, she *was* one of the reasons for the first
pack dying so quickly. I only ran it out of juice one time (it got cold
quick, and I went on my normal commute. Creeped the last mile to work).
She ran it out about 3-5 times, with nothing but running around town, and
wouldn't check to see that the breaker at wherever she plugged it in was OK
with the current, so often wound up with little or no opportunity charging.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Zach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:14 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Wife driving the electric...
>
> Warning, whining ahead...
>
> Ok, my nerves are running a bit taut today. The wife is
> driving the Prizm around town because the van's brake lines are toast.
>
> I hope she doesn't totally kill the batteries. I hope she
> remembered to take the parking brake off...
>
> Oh well: The pack is a year old and I am way too gentle on it
> anyways.
> Maybe some rough love would help to perk it up.
>
> I hate the cold. Half to one third range is *annoying*.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 9:37 AM -0500 2/12/04, Seth Murray wrote:
Hi Otmar,
Thanks for such a lengthly and interesting response. This motor
control stuff is really cool and I'm glad you like sharing some of
your expertise. Just one question,
...Gate drives are basically a mini controller in themselves. The
Z2K gate drives go from zero to 70 amps 30,000 times a second. And
they have to get the signal to all the IGBTs within nanoseconds of
each other.
where do the 70 amps go? Seems like an awful lot of current just
for driving gates. Then again I don't know too much about
this...thanks
Hi Seth,
The gates of Mosfets and IGBTs are highly capacitive to the Drain/Emitter.
The gates are also capacitive to the drain/collector connections
which seems like a much larger amount when the battery voltage is
high. If the output of the transistor starts at 300V and then falls
to 2V while turning on, and you imagine a capacitor between the
output and the gate, you can see how this would require a certain
amount of energy to be put into the gate during the switching time.
This is called Miller Capacitance. It works in reverse as well while
turning off.
In order to overcome these capacitances and make the transistor
switch fast you need a very high current drive, but only for a very
short time. So the peak current is high, but the power dissipated is
low (only a few watts in the Zilla). I don't have scope printout in
front of me now, but I expect the current is only over 50 amps for
less than 50 nanoseconds per switch event.
Does that make sense?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
What exactly is "conformal coating"?
I've heard various places that it adds resistance to moisture. Or to
heat. Or to cold. Or to the flu. Does one get a bucket of Conformal and
paint it on a PC board?
basicly, yes. Its a thin plastic coating.
You can buy it at the plastic supply store down the road from me.
(I live near an industrial park)
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:48:40PM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Well, assuming 15" wheels and an ADC motor, you are going to need gear
> ratios of roughly 8:1 and 5:1. Which "standard" truck parts provide
> these ratios?
>
> Just curious, my knowledge deals mostly with cars and light trucks.
Well, you wouldn't do that: you'd put either a fixed 5:1 ratio rear
end, then a 1.6:1 underdrive, or an 8:1 rear-end and a 0.67:1 overdrive.
These'd be somewhat easier to find, I think.
-jeff
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That easy huh? Maybe I will give this a try. Do you take the capicitor out
and replace it with a different value, leave it open, or short across where
the capacitor was?
From: Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Fortunat,
Yes the ramp can easily be removed if you open it up.
It may not be the same on your model (which model do you have?) but usually
it's C7 that you have to pull to remove the annoying ramp. It's a 47uF cap
that's usually yellow and located pretty near the acceleration adjustment
pot.
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up
Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...Does that make sense?
yes, I think so...thank you. this stuff is very interesting to me.
I'm taking power electronics as soon as I can (only a sophomore EE now)
but any recommended reading in the mean time? I have a copy of "power
electronics and drives" by ned mohan here which I've been browsing
through...cheers,
seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
>
>Conformal Coating is the crap that engineers have put onto
circuit
>cards to make it harder for technicians to troubleshoot and
>repair. :-) ;-)
>
>Oh, it also does a pretty good job of keeping corrosion and
>moisture away from the circuitry...
>
>I've seen it mainly in a spray can. But my exposure to it is
based
>entirely on having scraped/burned it off an area, and need to
>reapply it, thus the spray can.
>
>
>Stay Charged!
>Hump
>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jim Coate [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:23 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Conformal (Re: anyone EVER fried a zilla?)
>>
>>
>>What exactly is "conformal coating"?
>>
>>I've heard various places that it adds resistance to moisture. Or
>to
>>heat. Or to cold. Or to the flu. Does one get a bucket of
>Conformal and
>>paint it on a PC board?
>>
>>Otmar wrote:
>> > ... It seems that the boards had
>>> not been properly cleaned before the conformal coating step.
>That was
>>> unfortunate because it was hard to tell if it was a design or
>>> manufacturing problem.
>>
>>_________
>>Jim Coate
>>1970's Elec-Trak
>>1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
>>1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
>>http://www.eeevee.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Elec-trak mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> It includes some sort of stack of gray discs that get squished
> together tighter as the "load" control knob is turned up. Is this
> a 'carbon pile' that I have heard referred to in the past?
>
> The meter goes up to 300 amps... if this is a carbon pile, what
> are it's likely limits? How long can it be under load?
Yey; that's a carbon pile. An adjustable high-power resistor. Pressure
on the stack controls the contact resistance between the disks, and so
adjusts the resistance.
They are good for very high peak power, but not so good for continuous
power dissipation. The one in the picture is probably good for 12v at
300 amps for 10 seconds or so; long enough to see if an alternator
works.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote:
> New e-meter owners remember:
> 1. Don't let any E-meter wires touch the frame (any leakage current
> from batteries to frame will find its way through the meter.)
> 2. Don't disconnect any batteries while E-meter in line (because
> then there is nothing limiting peak voltage the E-meter can see).
> 3, Put a plug on the meter so you can easly unplug the meter (then
> you can do 1 and 2).
You'll note the E-meter manual shows fuses. Many people leave them out.
This is fine until something goes wrong. Then goodbye E-meter.
They show 2 amp fuses; this is actually far too high a rating. I suspect
they picked it as the smallest easily-available size. Instead, use the
*smallest* rating you can find -- the E-meter current draw is trivial.
> I like the new saying here Lee, it sure say what we're about, but
> now I'm wondering, was there something before "ring the bell that..."?
Yes; it was:
If you would not be forgotten
Soon as you are dead and rotten
Either write things worth the reading
Or do things worthy of the writing
Poor Richard's Almanac, by Ben Franklin
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:23 AM -0500 2/12/04, Jim Coate wrote:
What exactly is "conformal coating"?
I've heard various places that it adds resistance to moisture. Or to
heat. Or to cold. Or to the flu. Does one get a bucket of Conformal
and paint it on a PC board?
It fends off controller flu in colder weather. I use it in
conjunction with "Arc Not" "Electron Lube" and "Crash Not". These are
all must have items for EV racing. :-)
No seriously,
It's a very high tech special substance that is indistinguishable from paint.
Basically it's clearish paint with a UV reactive color. That way one
can check coverage using a blacklight.
It comes in various types, Acrylic, Urethane, Silicone and maybe
others. It helps protect and insulate the boards. But this does not
mean that you may get as much as one drop of water inside a Zilla! ;-)
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 4:59 PM +0000 2/12/04, damon henry wrote:
That easy huh? Maybe I will give this a try. Do you take the
capicitor out and replace it with a different value, leave it open,
or short across where the capacitor was?
From: Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Fortunat,
Yes the ramp can easily be removed if you open it up.
It may not be the same on your model (which model do you have?) but
usually it's C7 that you have to pull to remove the annoying ramp.
It's a 47uF cap that's usually yellow and located pretty near the
acceleration adjustment pot.
Leave it out.
I just looked it up, on the 1204/1205 series it's C6 that you want to remove.
In the regen article on this link:
http://CafeElectric.com/curtis/index.html
you can learn how I open up the Curtis controllers.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0780310845/002-2467520-3712025?v=glance
Power Electronics and Variable Frequency Drives :
Technology and Applications
by Bimal K. Bose (Editor)
Excellent book and easier to understand than Mohan
(unless of course you like differential equations)
Rod
www.qsl.net/w8rnh
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...Does that make sense?
yes, I think so...thank you. this stuff is very interesting to me.
I'm taking power electronics as soon as I can (only a sophomore EE
now) but any recommended reading in the mean time? I have a copy of
"power electronics and drives" by ned mohan here which I've been
browsing through...cheers,
There's a few books I like. None of them are inexpensive.
Motor Control Electronics Handbook ISBN: 0070668108
The art of electronics. ISBN: 0521370957
switching power supply design ISBN: 0070522367
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd calm down Christopher. My wife usually does as good or better than I do
for the most part. It shouldn't be any trouble for me when I get a new set
of batteries. Then I wouldn't worry at all......Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:14 AM
Subject: Wife driving the electric...
> Warning, whining ahead...
>
> Ok, my nerves are running a bit taut today. The wife is driving the
> Prizm around town because the van's brake lines are toast.
>
> I hope she doesn't totally kill the batteries. I hope she remembered to
> take the parking brake off...
>
> Oh well: The pack is a year old and I am way too gentle on it anyways.
> Maybe some rough love would help to perk it up.
>
> I hate the cold. Half to one third range is *annoying*.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't forget to spray a little of Bob's "Smoke Not" on there too!!! Ya'
gotta' keep the smoke on the inside!
Andrew
Otmar wrote:
At 11:23 AM -0500 2/12/04, Jim Coate wrote:
What exactly is "conformal coating"?
I've heard various places that it adds resistance to moisture. Or to
heat. Or to cold. Or to the flu. Does one get a bucket of Conformal
and paint it on a PC board?
It fends off controller flu in colder weather. I use it in conjunction
with "Arc Not" "Electron Lube" and "Crash Not". These are all must
have items for EV racing. :-)
No seriously,
It's a very high tech special substance that is indistinguishable from
paint.
Basically it's clearish paint with a UV reactive color. That way one
can check coverage using a blacklight.
It comes in various types, Acrylic, Urethane, Silicone and maybe
others. It helps protect and insulate the boards. But this does not
mean that you may get as much as one drop of water inside a Zilla! ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Lee Hart noted:
> They show 2 amp fuses; this is actually far too high a
> rating. I suspect they picked it as the smallest easily-available size.
Instead, use the
> *smallest* rating you can find -- the E-meter current draw is trivial.
I thought that 2amp was too high.
I installed 1amp fuses, which works fine.
Incidentally, I want to thank Randy Johnson of Xantrex for being so
responsive on this e-meter issue. He called me on the phone yesterday in
follow-up to my wondering if I fried my e-meter.
I updated him on the fact that the shunt sense wires had become
disconnected, leading to a display reading of around -500. He said there
was an app note or FAQ explaining this.
He sent me refs to this but I don't see this specifically referenced.
One note also: I asked if they can upgrade an e-meter to include the RS232
interface and he said that they can for probably about $70, depending on how
old the meter is. I might go for this.
-Myles Twete, Portland
Electric Reach of Tide: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My wife drives our Solectria Force daily to work and back (25-35 miles
RT) and never has a problem. All she has to do is watch the E-meter and
not go past the a/h limit we set. She LOVES the EV concept and is very
proud to drive it.
Don
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I'd calm down Christopher. My wife usually does as good or better than I do
for the most part. It shouldn't be any trouble for me when I get a new set
of batteries. Then I wouldn't worry at all......Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:14 AM
Subject: Wife driving the electric...
Warning, whining ahead...
Ok, my nerves are running a bit taut today. The wife is driving the
Prizm around town because the van's brake lines are toast.
I hope she doesn't totally kill the batteries. I hope she remembered to
take the parking brake off...
Oh well: The pack is a year old and I am way too gentle on it anyways.
Maybe some rough love would help to perk it up.
I hate the cold. Half to one third range is *annoying*.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Thomasson wrote:
>
> I'm confused (again). My ADC has an insulating ring inside the end bell
> that the brush holders attach to. The ring attaches to the end bell. Would
> it be easier to drill a new set of holes in this insulating ring, rather
> than drill the case? Mark T.
>
> > If they're not, then you have to make them.
> > The cases are *really* hard stuff too --- one tap broke in the process
> > (the last picture of the set). All that said, the hardest part about it
> > was getting the motor out and noting where everything was. Once you have
> > the motor free, it's just uncap the ends, pull the case off, drill and
> > tap the holes 3/4" in the right direction and put it all back together.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
We slotted the rivet holes, then extened them to a external ring that
can be moved.
If You want to just set the ring ahead, this is s good idea. We wanted
to have the brushes movable from the outside.
Clare Bell does the slotting in the ring.
Gone Poastal has new holes drilled int he steel case. Since we had the
motors out and on the floor it was the easiest procedure.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Stensland wrote:
>
> Hi Damon,
>
> Last fall I played with John Bidwell's El Chopper ET Honda Rebel
> motorcycle conversion. It had a 48V pack connected to an Etek motor via
> a 400A Alltrax (4844) controller.
>
> The Alltrax throttle curve can be adjusted via software. Pick one of the
> presets or define your own. Bidwell chose a progressive response and
> that felt perfect.
>
> How stout is the controller? Well, the hottest the Alltrax ever got was
> 86 degrees F. That was after an extended 16 mile trip at full throttle!
>
> The acceleration was brisk despite all the hulking batteries. 0 - 50 in
> about 8 seconds, with 0 - 30 in about 4 seconds. The gearing (12 front,
> 54 rear) limited top end to around 50mph. With a 15 front sprocket it
> would have gone 60mph.
>
> The controller can't take all the credit here. There was an entire
> system at work, but the controller was a big part of the success.
>
> You can read about it here...
> http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?cat=6&dismode=article&arti
> d=49
>
> Hope this helps,
> -Dave Stensland
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of damon henry
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:56 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: AllTrax Controller Experienc
>
> I am about to take the plunge and buy a new Alltrax controller. I have
> been
> thinking about it for almost a year, but wanted to try a different gear
> ratio first just to be sure. I have finally done that test, and am not
> satisfied with the results. So before I lay out my hard earned cash I
> would
> like to hear of some first hand experience with these controllers.
>
> I have two main issues and they both have to do with how high I have my
> bike
> geared. The first is very lazy off the line acceleration, and the
> second is
> lack of pull up hills. It seems to me that both these can be fixed with
>
> more current, and I am assuming that an Alltrax will pull alot harder
> then
> my Curtis 1204. I think that to get the off the line performance that I
>
> want I will need to be able to hit the motor with about 200 amps. My
> Curtis
> seems to want to work it's way slowly up to 100 then 150 then 200 amps.
>
> Once it is at about 150 and I am rolling at about 20 mph I like the way
> it
> pulls, it just takes too much time to get there. I'm assuming that the
> Alltrax will give me all this current as soon as I tell it to go. Is
> this
> correct?
>
> I know I could change my gearing, but that cuts into my top end too
> much. I
> want to be quick, fast and strong and all on only 48 volts. The only
> way I
> can see to get all this is with a very stout controller.
>
> thanks
> damon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Choose now from 4 levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - no more account
> overload! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
Umm By the way Damon Crockett at Alltrax/DCP said he has released his
Sepex 72 volt 400 amp controller to production as of Tuesday of this
week.
And a sobering comment. he can make 50 controllers a DAY!!!.
I make a couple $2000 to $3000 chargers a week he can do 50
controllers a day. Wow talk about going in different directions!!!
Sigh!... back to the Green box solo assembly.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Jim Coate wrote:
>
> Well, at least he only said "slightly" mad...
>
>
> - The *available* AC drives don't have near the peak power of the
> *available* DC drives. ie AC drive (Siemens) 18-45 KW nominal with 78 KW
> peak, versus DC drive (with Zilla) 18-20 KW nominal, 150-250+ KW peak
> (think GP).
Just a second there!!! the GP has a paper power peak of 2000 amps at 350
volts, times 2 drives that's 1.4 MEGA watts!
Each Zilla 2K can make 650 Kw. If you can find the batteries to feed one
at full snort.
It has a measured battery pack that can get to 540,000 watts, or over
1/2 a Megawatt.
I have driven it at 320,000 watts. or 800 motor amps on both ends, I do
not know the actual battery volts and amps, since it was dark without
dash lights, and I was dodging parked cars.
We were making more power than some of the dragsters, and were only at
about 1/2 what we could do. 15 seconds at 90 Mph is pretty good for a
4350 lead sled.
We will do better next time. IF we can control Rod's right foot!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Seth Murray wrote:
>
> Hi Otmar,
>
> Thanks for such a lengthly and interesting response. This motor
> control stuff is really cool and I'm glad you like sharing some of your
> expertise. Just one question,
>
> > ...Gate drives are basically a mini controller in themselves. The Z2K
> > gate drives go from zero to 70 amps 30,000 times a second. And they
> > have to get the signal to all the IGBTs within nanoseconds of each
> > other.
> where do the 70 amps go? Seems like an awful lot of current just for
> driving gates. Then again I don't know too much about this...thanks
>
> Seth
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> '72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
The DCP had 20 amps of drive.... and most likely that was not enough...
Yes Otmar It is a LOT!!!!
Us other gate drivers are suitably impressed. I use 2 amps for single
devices. Ot is badgering me to get more amps on the gate drives.
I am using 50Khz on the PFC20/30 chargers, and 20K on the PFC50s. The
faster you switch the cores in my chargers the less heat the cores make.
Otmar and DC controllers need to be switched as slow as the customer can
stand, or about 15 to 20K to stay above the audiable area for most
folks. My wife can't stand the 20Khz in here, I can't hear anything
above about 8000 Hz anyways, so.... It does not matter much to me. When
I do hear stuff it's time to find out why and in a hurry.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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I drive my Sparrow, and my wife drives "her" PaseoEV
conversion. She has been commuting in it for the past
10 months (how time flies!) without any problem. I
asked her to watch the Ah used and pack voltage at the
beginning and the end of her drive. And, once in a
while, she would tell me that the voltage seems a
little low or the Ah seems a little high. I will then
run an equalization cycle and all is well again.
Now, she even dare to venture out and take coworkers
to lunch in it to show off.
So, I won't worry too much.
Ed Ang
--- Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My wife drives our Solectria Force daily to work and
> back (25-35 miles
> RT) and never has a problem. All she has to do is
> watch the E-meter and
> not go past the a/h limit we set. She LOVES the EV
> concept and is very
> proud to drive it.
> Don
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> >I'd calm down Christopher. My wife usually does as
> good or better than I do
> >for the most part. It shouldn't be any trouble
> for me when I get a new set
> >of batteries. Then I wouldn't worry at
> all......Lawrence Rhodes........
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We slotted the rivet holes, then extened them to a
> external ring that
> can be moved.
> If You want to just set the ring ahead, this is s
> good idea. We wanted
> to have the brushes movable from the outside.
> Clare Bell does the slotting in the ring.
> Gone Poastal has new holes drilled int he steel
> case. Since we had the
> motors out and on the floor it was the easiest
> procedure.
Rich,
Any pictures you can post about the slotted ring?
Ed Ang
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
> If one were to step down the AC voltage through a ~1:2 isolation
> transformer, then that should help protect the inverter.
True; but an isolation transformer is expensive, big and heavy. The
faster you want to charge, the more unwieldly this transformer gets.
Look at the size and weight of Lester chargers as an example.
You can build a high frequency switching power supply with an isolation
transformer; look at the Zivans as an example. This gets the size and
weight down, but raises the cost and lowers reliability (switchers are
vastly more complicated).
> #3 Depending on the charging current, the inductors might not be too
> large. It might be possible to wind your own?
Certainly you could. Most people would prefer to buy instead.
> #4 Is sort of case by case, might be additional SW and HW...
Yes. The problems aren't technical, but political. Manufacturers don't
want their inverters to be used this way, and aren't about to help
anyone who wants to do it.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Dear Tour de Sol entrants & potential entrants:
The 2004 Tour de Sol is coming soon and we have news
The 2004 Tour de Sol will be held during National Transportation Week, May
21-25, as planned - but the logistics have changed.
The Tour de Sol will start in New Jersey. We will hold press events, technical
testing and an open house in New Jersey from May 21-23. (More on this event
very soon.) On Monday, May 24, we will go to New Jersey's State Capitol, where
several thousand people will attend the Tour de Sol street festival. On
Tuesday, May 25 the Tour will go to New York City's financial district, for its
grand finale festival and awards ceremony. Thousands of business people, the
press, and the general public will be drawn to our large tent that will
accommodate exhibitors, food vendors, speakers, the press, and much more.
Changes in any event are never welcomed. From a competitive perspective, we
expect to be able to hold all events as planned. We also believe that ending
the event in New York City will provide high value. The Tour will be located
in an area with high foot traffic and excellent access to the major news media,
maintaining and enhancing the key attributes that have made the Tour a unique,
highly attended, and newsworthy event for the past 15 years.
Your participation and satisfaction as an entrant and exhibitor of the 2004
Tour de Sol is of utmost importance to us. If you have already registered for
the 2004 Tour de Sol and have any questions or concerns please contact Nancy
Hazard. If you have not yet registered - don't delay! Just 5 weeks to the
final March 15 registration deadline!
We very much look forward to having you with us this year!
Sincerely,
Nancy Hazard Director, Tour de Sol, Ext 18
Anissa Sanborn Transportation Event Coordinator, Ext 30
David Knowles Logistics Coordinator, Ext 29
Northeast Sustainable Energy Association
413-774-6051
http://www.TourDeSol.org
(but the places have not been updated yet)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hmm, so the issue lies when the pulse width (of the fets) is small
which makes the diodes work harder? doesn't this put a huge toll on
the diodes every time you start from a standstill, or shift up?
seth
On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, at 10:15 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
The flywheel diodes will carry current during PWM
of the motor. The actual current depends on the
duty cycle. For example, when you are accelerating
the motor is in PWM for awhile until you reach higher
motor terminal voltage. Several factors will
determine how long you are in this PWM transition
stage. If you start out in first gear this will be
rather short. If you try to start the car in 4th gear
from a dead stop you'll be in PWM for quite awhile
(and the motor will be very innefficient for a good
deal of this time) During this 4th gear start you'll
see lots of freewheel current in the diodes.
Freewheel current and diodes are not always rated at
the same amp levels of the MOSFET's or IGBT's in the
drive. Therefore if you have a 1200Amp control the
freewheel diodes aren't always rated at 1200 amps
since
they only see a transitory current (hopefully you
start in 1st or 2nd gear and don't do the high current
4th gear start).
I think there are some other factors that come into
play in this DCP control failure. I'm guessing the
current limit control and thermal sensing circuit are
slow in responding to the load (Rich can fill us in on
this question). The other possibility is not enough
design overhead for the transistor voltage and
transient voltage seen by stray inductance and
resistance in the control, especially as the bus caps
age and have higher internal resistance (this is a
progressive failure and non-linear for the caps).
Rod
www.qsl.net/w8rnh
--- Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ok, can I now say I finally did some "outside the
box" thinking...
Get it... out side the box... ahh nevermind...
Seth
On Feb 10, 2004, at 11:43 AM, Rod Hower wrote:
I have some 200V, 400A Schottky power modules
in a TO-244AB package.
1 or 2 of these should work.
Low price if your interested.
Rod
--- Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A look around DigiKey makes this a $500-ish
project
for 5-10 high
current modules, plus designing appropriate
wiring/connecting methods.
Plus labor. Nothing is easy as they say.
Or use as seed money for new controller fund.
- Jim
Brought to you by the word: "Epitaxial"
"
Seth wrote:
Maybe "the diode from hell" wired for freewheel
at the motor in
parallel with the 'Rex? Like multiple 200V
"Schottkys" or FREDs on a fan
and heatsink bolted adjacent to the motor (you
are
running 132V, right
Jim?) Seth Murray might need a 300V FRED for
192V?
Just thinking out
loud on that one. Maybe there are good reasons
not
to do it? Lee, Rich,
Otmar??
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
Seth Allen
AKA "the cynic"
" the other Seth"
"I lost on eBay too"
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anybody know Mark Carman in Phoenix?
I just talked to the Chrysler engineer in charge
of electronics for the GEM and he said Mark
sold GEM pieces parts and vehicles.
Thanks,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
Well, at least he only said "slightly" mad...
- The *available* AC drives don't have near the peak power of the
*available* DC drives. ie AC drive (Siemens) 18-45 KW nominal with 78 KW
peak, versus DC drive (with Zilla) 18-20 KW nominal, 150-250+ KW peak
(think GP).
Just a second there!!! the GP has a paper power peak of 2000 amps at 350
volts, times 2 drives that's 1.4 MEGA watts!
Each Zilla 2K can make 650 Kw. If you can find the batteries to feed one
at full snort.
Hey, where's my 2X4?
Last I saw GP had 2 strings of 240V. It does not have the batteries
to feed that, and if it did it would weigh more than it does now....
I figure about 140V at 3600A max.
A paltry 504 Kw electrical.
Can you say Wimpy? :-)
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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