EV Digest 3365
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: battery charging Idea
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Anti-scooter legislation (Washington State)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) protection against dragging the cord down the road
by "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OFA s-10s
by "Nick Aronoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OFA s-10s
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: electric Caravan for sale
by "Vince Barma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: battery charging Idea
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Neat battery monitoring idea
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by Kevin Coughlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) "Universal" motors
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: "Universal" motors
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: "Universal" motors
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Fw: DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Neat battery monitoring idea
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just from a safety view point, do you really want a high voltage string of
batteries just sitting around?
Otherwise I am thinking something like Lee's balancing system would do the
same job and be simpler to build. For what you are describing I think you
will need a constant current power supply that can go positive or negative
voltages.
Andre' B.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of 1sclunn
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: battery charging Idea
With a yard full of batteries , I was thinking about ways to keep them
healthy and had this idea. A device with dpdt rely that would switch the out
put of each form + to - , . a voltage sense set up ( some comparers ) to
sense full ( say 7.5 v ) and empty ( say 5.25 ) . When a battery reaches
one or the other threshold voltages the dpdt would switch and the battery's
polarity would change it in the string of batteries being charged .example
20 golf carters in series ( this would be the outputs of the relays sitting
on the batteries that would be hooked in series not right to the batteries )
. all batteries start off charging. when the first one reached 7.5 v the
device would switch the polarity and start discharging that one battery
back into the string . There would have to be some kind of current limiting
on the charger that would keep a steady ,say 5 amps output , the charger
would have to be able to handle the load changing as different batteries
went for charging to discharging . With this series string of batteries
all connected each one with its own relay , charging and discharging to its
own ability . once the thing got going and some batteries were charging and
other discharging it wouldn't require a lot of watts for the charger, It
would be using the electricy form the batteries being discharged to charged
the others . The input from the charger could at times be very low or under
certain conductions ( if all batteries got charged and went into discharge
mode) just be a load. Could be done with a diode across the charger to
bypass the current when output of battery string got higher the charger?.The
charger could be just some lights or a big coil with a bad boy. If you've
read this and are thinking how would this work in a car than I haven't
explained it right as charging or discharging could never go over the dpdt
relay amp rating . This if for batteries that are just sitting around .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Feb 2004 at 11:39, Chris Tromley wrote:
> If you're on a sidewalk and there are no pedestrians, doorways or
> driveways around, crank it up to a maximum of 15 mph.
Gas scooters often take to the sidewalks in South Korea. These are the
vehicles of choice for couriers and often it's just for half a block or so,
to deliver a package right to a building's front door. But now and then
when traffic is especially bad they'll hop up on the sidewalk and putt along
for a block or two at about 2-3 times walking speed. They also ride through
the semi-enclosed traditional markets this way, though usually even slower.
I'm talking about the 100cc or so mini-motorcycles, BTW, not the little
Chinese foot-scooter types sold here.
Foreigners rant about this, but native pedestrians are used to it and just
get out of the way when they hear them coming. ( At least you ^can^ hear
them coming with those annoying little buzzy gas engines - not true with
electric scooters.)
I don't know that I'd recommend something similar in the US, though. Korea
has a very different attitude toward mishaps than we do.
I agree that Ebikes and scooters are an EV success story, and we ought to
encourage them. But we need to do so in a way that doesn't get people sore
at us. A couple of scooters here and there woudn't really be much of a
problem, but filling up the sidewalk with kids who ignore the speed limits
is guaranteed to get an anti-scooter campaign underway. That's not the way
to build on success.
IMO, if a vehicle is allowed on sidewalks, it should impossible to run it
faster than a brisk walking pace. OTOH, if a vehicle is allowed on the
street, it should be able to maintain a reasonable speed there - at least 20
mph. Stuff in between - well, I guess we really don't have thoroughfares
for those kinds of vehicles.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
All we learn from history is history repeats.
-- Andrew Ratshin
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> ...the point of the article, which is an application of a new solid
> state relay.
>
> There doesn't seem to be any safety net in case the steering logic
> goes nuts and turns on multiple relays at the same time shorting
> out several cells. Since these are low current devices, the relay
> itself would likely become the fuse before any thing really bad
> (fire) happened.
I agree. No fuses, no sensing, no backup systems at all.
> Of course since these are low current devices, they can't be used to
> charge the cell(s) found to be in trouble. Probably why titled as a
> "monitoring" rather than "balancing" system.
I agree again. I would be more inclined to use physical relays, so you
could literally charge or discharge individual cells.
> Saying "the V(N) to V(N+1) potential to chassis ground ranges from
> 2 to 300 V" doesn't makes sense to me as the pack should be isolated
> from the chassis.
I suspect this is one of those circuits that an application engineer at
Fairchild dreamed up to sell parts. It hasn't actually been built, and
he doesn't know much about how EVs are actually built (i.e. that
propulsion wiring is not grounded).
> I also don't understand the point of the optoisolators in the 8
> lines going to the decoders. It leaves the 74154's needing another
> (isolated) power supply.
I think he assumed that the 74HC154's (and all their driving logic) was
powered from the vehicle's 12v accessory battery.
> I'll stop now and just take it as a pointer to a new product that
> could be handy.
I look at all such circuits not as practical designs, but rather as a
source of ideas. For instance, would you really want to run 151 wires
(to individually control every LED) into your battery box? That would be
a cabling nightmare!
But I like his use of the A-B buss scheme I described here a few months
ago as a way to allow SPST relays instead of the DPST relays I used
years ago in my Battery Balancer.
BTW, I have done some experimenting with SCR optocouplers in exactly
this circuit to replace the solid-state relays he used. SCRs can be used
as remote-base bilateral transistors. Briefly, the anode-base leads
(cathode left open) behave like a resistor; nearly infinite resistance
when the LED is off, under 1k ohms when the LED is on.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
My charger connection is going to be put behind the gas-tank lid. I'm
planning on putting a switch (similar to the switch used to detect whether
your door is open or not) on the door to detect when it is open. If it is
open, then the start signal to the controller (Z1K) will be disabled. I
think this will be an ideal way to protect from driving down the road
dragging my charging cord. I think someone mentioned doing it this way
awhile ago. What I'm envisioning using is basically an "and" gate between
the start signal and the switch to the "charging" door. I'm not familiar
enough with components to know what to use - some sort of relay, etc. I'd
appreciate any ideas on the matter.
Thanks,
Ryan
__________________________________
www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my Electrica, the male L6-30 inlet has a center pin that, when a plug is inserted,
is pushed back, breaking the 12v ignition circuit. I believe this is called an
interlock.
This switch was bypassed when I bought the car, and I realized that when I drove off
once with the cord still hanging. So I wired it up correctly.
That switch, however, can be a bit tempermental (maybe the contacts are dirty). On
one humid evening, the car woudn't start, even after the plug was removed. I pushed
the center pin in and out a couple of times. Worked fine after that.
It's a tradeoff of a bit of reliability for safety.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Bohm
Hi,
My charger connection is going to be put behind the gas-tank lid. I'm
planning on putting a switch (similar to the switch used to detect whether
your door is open or not) on the door to detect when it is open. If it is
open, then the start signal to the controller (Z1K) will be disabled. I
think this will be an ideal way to protect from driving down the road
dragging my charging cord. I think someone mentioned doing it this way
awhile ago. What I'm envisioning using is basically an "and" gate between
the start signal and the switch to the "charging" door. I'm not familiar
enough with components to know what to use - some sort of relay, etc. I'd
appreciate any ideas on the matter.
Thanks,
Ryan
__________________________________
www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:32 PM -0700 2/19/04, Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi,
My charger connection is going to be put behind the gas-tank lid. I'm
planning on putting a switch (similar to the switch used to detect whether
your door is open or not) on the door to detect when it is open. If it is
open, then the start signal to the controller (Z1K) will be disabled. I
think this will be an ideal way to protect from driving down the road
dragging my charging cord. I think someone mentioned doing it this way
awhile ago. What I'm envisioning using is basically an "and" gate between
the start signal and the switch to the "charging" door. I'm not familiar
enough with components to know what to use - some sort of relay, etc. I'd
appreciate any ideas on the matter.
Hi Ryan,
You could use a relay, and it's not hard, but since you don't have
your Z1K yet and therefore will be getting the new version of the
Hairball this should be simple.
All you need to do is bug me to finish that part of the code. :-)
Those of you who have seen the latest version of the Hairball might
have noticed that it has a lot more connections. (over 50 with all
the options installed!) There's a picture of HB2 here:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/HB2_640.JPG
One of the features that is implemented in hardware, but not yet in
software is the "AC Plug In" connection. If you put 12V on this pin
whenever the charging door is open, then the controller will not run
and the check engine light will blink if you try to drive. This
should take car of your issue, and it will be one of the easier
things for me to write the code for.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoops. Just assumed they had the Ovonics pack.
(http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/s10.pdf)
So now I wonder...
what price would these have gotten if they did, in fact, have the NiMH pack?
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Aronoff
I was at the auction, but I don't know who got them. I wasn't ready to spend
$20,000 on a car I couldn't take for a test drive! I am curious why you say they
are NiMH? The paperwork in the glovebox of the one that moved said it has VRLA
batteries.
-Nick Aronoff
> >>
> Did anyone on-list buy one of the 1998 NiMH S-10's at the OFA auction in
Davis, CA today? I'm curious as to how much they fetched.
>
> Richard
> 1981 Jet Electrica
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Lee,
How about using a Rotary Stepping Switch, instead of using relays for batery
pack monitoring or balancing.
These switches are listed in www.surplussales.com which are made by LEDEX.
They list up to 12 pole - 18 throw which is motorized. Can be control by
pulse or constant voltage to advance switch one step.
I would connect to every other pole connection, to give more clearance, or
if they MAKE before BRAKE.
You can daisy chain these switch units together if you need more poles.
I plan to used one of these switches which will take 31 No 10 AWG 52 strand
600 Volt wire from the batterys to a DIM rail that has 31 gangable fuse
modules. This will connect to the Rotary Stepper Switch, which than is
connected to a Digital Volt meter and/or to a Balancing Regulator Unit.
As the maximum set voltage is obtain for each battery, than the regulator
will than advance the switch one step.
A bypass switch could be added for stepping the rotary switch for reading
the status of each battery. A digital counter could be made to number each
battery in reference to the status readouts.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
> Jim Coate wrote:
> > ...the point of the article, which is an application of a new solid
> > state relay.
> >
> > There doesn't seem to be any safety net in case the steering logic
> > goes nuts and turns on multiple relays at the same time shorting
> > out several cells. Since these are low current devices, the relay
> > itself would likely become the fuse before any thing really bad
> > (fire) happened.
>
> I agree. No fuses, no sensing, no backup systems at all.
>
> > Of course since these are low current devices, they can't be used to
> > charge the cell(s) found to be in trouble. Probably why titled as a
> > "monitoring" rather than "balancing" system.
>
> I agree again. I would be more inclined to use physical relays, so you
> could literally charge or discharge individual cells.
>
> > Saying "the V(N) to V(N+1) potential to chassis ground ranges from
> > 2 to 300 V" doesn't makes sense to me as the pack should be isolated
> > from the chassis.
>
> I suspect this is one of those circuits that an application engineer at
> Fairchild dreamed up to sell parts. It hasn't actually been built, and
> he doesn't know much about how EVs are actually built (i.e. that
> propulsion wiring is not grounded).
>
> > I also don't understand the point of the optoisolators in the 8
> > lines going to the decoders. It leaves the 74154's needing another
> > (isolated) power supply.
>
> I think he assumed that the 74HC154's (and all their driving logic) was
> powered from the vehicle's 12v accessory battery.
>
> > I'll stop now and just take it as a pointer to a new product that
> > could be handy.
>
> I look at all such circuits not as practical designs, but rather as a
> source of ideas. For instance, would you really want to run 151 wires
> (to individually control every LED) into your battery box? That would be
> a cabling nightmare!
>
> But I like his use of the A-B buss scheme I described here a few months
> ago as a way to allow SPST relays instead of the DPST relays I used
> years ago in my Battery Balancer.
>
> BTW, I have done some experimenting with SCR optocouplers in exactly
> this circuit to replace the solid-state relays he used. SCRs can be used
> as remote-base bilateral transistors. Briefly, the anode-base leads
> (cathode left open) behave like a resistor; nearly infinite resistance
> when the LED is off, under 1k ohms when the LED is on.
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Six Grand is the current bid price...
-----Original Message-----
From: Reverend Gadget [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:07 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: electric Caravan for sale
http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=326310&convertTo=USD
Just had this forwarded to me if anyone is interesed
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> Hello Lee,
>
> How about using a Rotary Stepping Switch, instead of using relays for batery
> pack monitoring or balancing.
Yes, I was about to type response to suggest very the same thing.
Having such a relay 100% ensures you never ever have two
relays turn on simultaneously - you simply don't have two
relays. You have only one, thus no need for double-tripple
protection as for multiple normal relays (like in LEe's circuit).
Disadvantages would be - such a relay is bulky and harder to find
with suitable rating, and it cannot pick the battery at
random, it will do it in sequence only. Also, settling on particular
battery requires counter for steps, but since BS is used anyway,
it is no harder to implement it than multi-relay solution.
These relays use to be used in telephone industry in before-computers
era (70's I guess).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this a production or conversion vehicle?
Either way it looked great yesterday at $2K
They say it's ?value is $45K?
It's 27 12v Lead Acid(probably) batteries 324vdc, 208/240vac 40A charger
8 hour charge time, 80 MPH, 60 miles range, 5950 Lbs.
L8r
Ryan
Vince Barma wrote:
Six Grand is the current bid price...
-----Original Message-----
From: Reverend Gadget [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:07 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: electric Caravan for sale
http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=326310&convertTo=USD
Just had this forwarded to me if anyone is interesed
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about the battery regs. that Rich puts out:
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/parts.htm
Wouldn't those do the trick?
-Ryan
Andre Blanchard wrote:
Just from a safety view point, do you really want a high voltage string of
batteries just sitting around?
Otherwise I am thinking something like Lee's balancing system would do the
same job and be simpler to build. For what you are describing I think you
will need a constant current power supply that can go positive or negative
voltages.
Andre' B.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of 1sclunn
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: battery charging Idea
With a yard full of batteries , I was thinking about ways to keep them
healthy and had this idea. A device with dpdt rely that would switch the out
put of each form + to - , . a voltage sense set up ( some comparers ) to
sense full ( say 7.5 v ) and empty ( say 5.25 ) . When a battery reaches
one or the other threshold voltages the dpdt would switch and the battery's
polarity would change it in the string of batteries being charged .example
20 golf carters in series ( this would be the outputs of the relays sitting
on the batteries that would be hooked in series not right to the batteries )
. all batteries start off charging. when the first one reached 7.5 v the
device would switch the polarity and start discharging that one battery
back into the string . There would have to be some kind of current limiting
on the charger that would keep a steady ,say 5 amps output , the charger
would have to be able to handle the load changing as different batteries
went for charging to discharging . With this series string of batteries
all connected each one with its own relay , charging and discharging to its
own ability . once the thing got going and some batteries were charging and
other discharging it wouldn't require a lot of watts for the charger, It
would be using the electricy form the batteries being discharged to charged
the others . The input from the charger could at times be very low or under
certain conductions ( if all batteries got charged and went into discharge
mode) just be a load. Could be done with a diode across the charger to
bypass the current when output of battery string got higher the charger?.The
charger could be just some lights or a big coil with a bad boy. If you've
read this and are thinking how would this work in a car than I haven't
explained it right as charging or discharging could never go over the dpdt
relay amp rating . This if for batteries that are just sitting around .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
$8550 now, just a couple hours after if was 6k. Yep, people aren't
interested in electric, are they?
-Ryan
Lightning Ryan wrote:
Is this a production or conversion vehicle?
Either way it looked great yesterday at $2K
They say it's ?value is $45K?
It's 27 12v Lead Acid(probably) batteries 324vdc, 208/240vac 40A charger
8 hour charge time, 80 MPH, 60 miles range, 5950 Lbs.
L8r
Ryan
Vince Barma wrote:
Six Grand is the current bid price...
-----Original Message-----
From: Reverend Gadget [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:07 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: electric Caravan for sale
http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=326310&convertTo=USD
Just had this forwarded to me if anyone is interesed
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--
Ever thought of driving an Electric Car? Visit http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is very similar to a battery monitor I built,
based on Paul Compton's monitor.
His uses relays, I tried solid-state telecoms
"relays" like the devices in the article.
Seemed to work ok, but the bugbear in my prototype
was the isolated AtoD. Too much noise.
I used an HP isolation amp, designed for shunts in
inverters, which produced a differential output.
( this was the mistake, it needed too small an input
signal, which allowed the noise to swamp the data )
By measuring both outputs, my system could work out
the polarity of the connected battery with a simple
subtraction in software. It also didn't care about
how or when the pack might be split by a fuse or
"service" breaker. But this used two wires per
battery, and each wire needs to be fused properly.
Paul's isolated AtoD section works well, so the next
versions of this project will use that. It can only
measure "normal" battery voltages, connected in series,
but uses only half as many wires & fuses, less of the
"RatsNest (TM)" wiring look.
The other thing that I can't believe the article didn't
seem to mention is this:
Q.
What happens if more than one battery is "selected" at the
same time?
A.
A partial ( or full ) pack short-circuit,
i.e. A BIG NASTY ZORCH EVENT!
Lee's battery balancer system ( which uses the same
floating measuring device connected with relays idea )
includes multiple safeguards to try to prevent this kind
of event happening, but that's with power-hungry relay coils.
Trying to do the same thing with faster, low-current optocoupler
LED inputs is more challenging, and I wonder how the devices
would respond to shorting out 120v DC available from a
very powerful battery stack ( short circuit currents > 3kA ).
The datasheet says they self-limit the fault current, but will
it work that fast?
The last "rock" I can think of to throw at this is:
What's the leakage current when these devices are "off" ?
How will 151 sets of this leakage affect the overall
leakage paths around the pack ?
( I'm thinking of nuisance GFI tripping here )
Since the devices are semiconductors, they're never
truly "off", as in "disconnected", like a relay contact is.
Still, it's an interesting idea. I might build a second-generation
version of mine, to see if I can get rid of the electrical noise.
The clicking sound of the relays on the monitor I got from
Paul bugs me...
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the ambulance I drive - we plug it in the moment we park it. Hmmmm.... EVERY
vehicle at the fire station has to be plugged in - I guess they aren't hybrids
*grin*. Anyway.....
The socket has a little solenoid, and if you forget to pull out the plug when
you get in, once you turn the key it goes "thunk" and auto-ejects the plug for
you. Not good to rely on all the time..... but helpful for when you forget.
It's pretty embarassing to be driving down the road, lights and siren, dragging
a 50 foot extension cord......
Maybe that would help - and the socket is DESIGNED for automotive use.
Kevin Coughlin - Snohomish WA
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My charger connection is going to be put behind the gas-tank lid. I'm
> planning on putting a switch (similar to the switch used to detect whether
> your door is open or not) on the door to detect when it is open. If it is
> open, then the start signal to the controller (Z1K) will be disabled. I
> think this will be an ideal way to protect from driving down the road
> dragging my charging cord. I think someone mentioned doing it this way
> awhile ago. What I'm envisioning using is basically an "and" gate between
> the start signal and the switch to the "charging" door. I'm not familiar
> enough with components to know what to use - some sort of relay, etc. I'd
> appreciate any ideas on the matter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> __________________________________
> www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My conversion has an AC interlock relay that prevents
the controller from engaging when plugged in.
However, my wife did forget to unplug it once and
manage to bend the gas-tank lid before she realized
that. Since we park on the driveway, the car could
still roll down even the controller is not engaged.
So, keep this in mind.
Ed Ang
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My charger connection is going to be put behind the
> gas-tank lid. I'm
> planning on putting a switch (similar to the switch
> used to detect whether
> your door is open or not) on the door to detect when
> it is open. If it is
> open, then the start signal to the controller (Z1K)
> will be disabled. I
> think this will be an ideal way to protect from
> driving down the road
> dragging my charging cord. I think someone
> mentioned doing it this way
> awhile ago. What I'm envisioning using is basically
> an "and" gate between
> the start signal and the switch to the "charging"
> door. I'm not familiar
> enough with components to know what to use - some
> sort of relay, etc. I'd
> appreciate any ideas on the matter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> __________________________________
> www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's something that's been bugging me for a while; hoping someone on the list
can help clear me up on it. I just don't get the idea behind universal (ac/dc)
motors. I've found a few pages online that mention them, such as the following:
http://e-www.motorola.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/train_ref_material/MOTORDCTUT.html
Several sites including the above make the claim that a Universal motor is
essentially the same thing as a Series-wound DC motor (perhaps having some
slight modification in design to make it more efficient or less noisy running on
AC). Whether this claim is true or not, it doesn't really help me understand
why it works.
The above site claims that the motor works on both AC and DC because reversing
the polarity on both the armature and field cancels out, and the rotor ends up
spinning the same direction. This seems sensible, but is it not true that
reversing the polarity on a motor like the Advanced DC will cause it to spin in
the opposite direction? (Wish I had one handy to play with...) If so, then I'm
*really* confused.
Another problem -- I found a page that describes hooking up a universal motor by
figuring out which terminal or wire does what:
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal/motors1.html
Here, they're hooking them up in a way that doesn't seem to resemble how a
series DC motor is hooked up in an EV, where you hook up to two terminals, and
connect the other two to each other. On the other hand, it does seem to support
the information in the Motorola link above (simply reversing the voltage doesn't
reverse the motor; you have to reverse the field with respect to the armature).
Is a universal motor hooked up for DC in a different fashion from how it's
connected to AC? None of the information I've found suggests this.
And my final curiosity, could you spin up an ADC by plugging it into mains,
assuming your circuit could supply the current? =)
--c.r.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:58 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:
Yes, I was about to type response to suggest very the same thing.
Having such a relay 100% ensures you never ever have two
relays turn on simultaneously -
Another way using relays is to set them up as a binary tree to address the
batteries. The ones at the battery can be DPST, and the nodes in the tree
are DPDP. That way it doesn't really matter if one "sticks", as the next
one in the tree will isolate it.
The only bad thing that can happen is that one battery can't be connected.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan wrote:
Is this a production or conversion vehicle?
Either way it looked great yesterday at $2K
They say it's ?value is $45K?
It's 27 12v Lead Acid(probably) batteries 324vdc, 208/240vac 40A charger
8 hour charge time, 80 MPH, 60 miles range, 5950 Lbs.
L8r
Ryan
Unless I am greatly mistaken, this is a first generation Chrysler
EPIC. They had lead acid batteries while the later ones went to liquid
cooled NiMh.
Nice van, but just about a complete orphan I suspect. Give me something I
can get parts for.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force (almost there)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Chris,
I'll answer to the best of my knowledge...
Several sites including the above make the claim that a Universal
motor is
essentially the same thing as a Series-wound DC motor
yes.
The above site claims that the motor works on both AC and DC because
reversing
the polarity on both the armature and field cancels out, and the rotor
ends up
spinning the same direction.
yes.
This seems sensible, but is it not true that
reversing the polarity on a motor like the Advanced DC will cause it
to spin in
the opposite direction?
reversing the polarity on an ADC has no effect on direction of spin.
simply reversing the voltage doesn't
reverse the motor; you have to reverse the field with respect to the
armature
yes.
Is a universal motor hooked up for DC in a different fashion from how
it's
connected to AC?
no
And my final curiosity, could you spin up an ADC by plugging it into
mains,
assuming your circuit could supply the current? =)
yes
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Seth!
Your reply, and one from Sheer (thanks, Sheer!) got me to re-scrutinize the
ASCII drawing in the latter link. I guess I got confused by the arrangement,
but I now realize the wiring *is* exactly the same as with an ADC.
I think I get it now. =)
--c.r.
Quoting Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hey Chris,
>
> I'll answer to the best of my knowledge...
>
> > Several sites including the above make the claim that a Universal
> > motor is
> > essentially the same thing as a Series-wound DC motor
> yes.
>
> > The above site claims that the motor works on both AC and DC because
> > reversing
> > the polarity on both the armature and field cancels out, and the rotor
> > ends up
> > spinning the same direction.
> yes.
>
> > This seems sensible, but is it not true that
> > reversing the polarity on a motor like the Advanced DC will cause it
> > to spin in
> > the opposite direction?
> reversing the polarity on an ADC has no effect on direction of spin.
>
> > simply reversing the voltage doesn't
> > reverse the motor; you have to reverse the field with respect to the
> > armature
> yes.
>
> > Is a universal motor hooked up for DC in a different fashion from how
> > it's
> > connected to AC?
> no
>
> > And my final curiosity, could you spin up an ADC by plugging it into
> > mains,
> > assuming your circuit could supply the current? =)
> yes
>
> Seth
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
> '72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Another way using relays is to set them up as a binary tree to address
the batteries. The ones at the battery can be DPST, and the nodes in
the tree are DPDP. That way it doesn't really matter if one "sticks",
as the next one in the tree will isolate it.
... as long as the contacts of that relay aren't bent/welded shut.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought some of you might be interested in the Epic Minivan. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
Subject: Re: DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance
> Dear Lawrence,
>
> Thank you for your recent email to DaimlerChrysler Motors regarding your
> interest in the Chrysler Epic Minivan.
>
> To find out more information regarding the availability of the Chrysler
> Epic, I encourage you to contact our Fleet Sales Division at
> 1-800-999-3533. They will be able to provide you with the most
> up-to-date information.
>
> Thank you again for your email.
>
> DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Bebbington wrote:
A partial ( or full ) pack short-circuit,
i.e. A BIG NASTY ZORCH EVENT!
A modules are only monitor voltage, so adding
appropriate value resistors in series will not
skew the results but will prevent zorch even if
any two (or more) SS relays are on at the same time.
You'll just get erroneous readings.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:49 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:
Another way using relays is to set them up as a binary tree to address
the batteries. The ones at the battery can be DPST, and the nodes in the
tree are DPDP. That way it doesn't really matter if one "sticks", as the
next one in the tree will isolate it.
... as long as the contacts of that relay aren't bent/welded shut.
As long as they don't contact BOTH throws at the same time. Which is a
HIGHLY unlikely failure mode. (Just how can that occur?)
Being welded in one direction just means the wrong battery is selected.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kevin Coughlin wrote:
On the ambulance I drive - we plug it in the moment we park it. Hmmmm.... EVERY
vehicle at the fire station has to be plugged in - I guess they aren't hybrids
*grin*. Anyway.....
The socket has a little solenoid, and if you forget to pull out the plug when
you get in, once you turn the key it goes "thunk" and auto-ejects the plug for
you. Not good to rely on all the time..... but helpful for when you forget.
It's pretty embarassing to be driving down the road, lights and siren, dragging
a 50 foot extension cord......
Maybe that would help - and the socket is DESIGNED for automotive use.
The problem I see with all the interlocks solution is that
for most of designs if there is no AC power coming but
the plug is physically in, you can still drive away.
Solenoid solution above complicates things and still
may fail.
I really like the solution I saw for OEM VW CitySTROMer EV:
it carries coiled cord in the small compartment behind
front license plate, and you not only have to unplug
the other end from the mains, but plug that end into
a dummy receptacle inside that compartment which
connects the ground pin of the mains (connected to
the body) to the inverter's enable pin normally
pulled up. So unless the cord is retracted, and mains
end plugged into the car (so both ends are in the car),
you can't move.
What I was thinking to implement if I don't want to carry
the cord, is to make a custom "plug" held in place by a
magnet. If you manage to drive away it always unplugs
itself with no damages.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
What I was thinking to implement if I don't want to carry
the cord, is to make a custom "plug" held in place by a
magnet. If you manage to drive away it always unplugs
itself with no damages.
I like this idea. Our Fry Daddy deep fat fryer has a power cord like
this to avoid tipping the vat of oil over on you. It works very well.
I can just see my wifes' face when the fryer is disected in pieces on
the counter - she'd actually probably be happy :)
-Ryan
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