EV Digest 3367
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Anti-scooter legislation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Neat battery monitoring idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: battery charging Idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: battery charging Idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Caravan For Sale
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EV Job: EE, design and develop John Deere EVs
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EAA National Meeting, Saturday 2/21 10am-12n
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Job: EE, design and develop John Deere EVs
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road -TEVan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Transmission efficiency
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) article: Electric cars: China's hope to catch up with advanced auto
maker
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: electric Caravan for sale
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) EV Caravan For Sale
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) S10e's auctioned in Davis CA
by Jeff Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: electric Caravan for sale
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: EV Caravan For Sale
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
<<Children under the age of...oh say 14, should not ride motorized
vehicles on the streets. If they are slow enough to be safe for the
child to ride, it's to slow to be in traffic. If it's fast enough to be
in traffic it's to fast for young children to ride safely.
If you allow children over a certain age to ride scooters on the
streets, how are the cops supposed to know how old the kid is? Besides
why should kids be allowed to drive motor vehicles without licenses?
It's just simpler to restrict motorized vehicles on the roads to those
people that have licenses. Solves the safety problem, solves the
enforcement problem.>>
California law makes it illegal to ride a powered scooter on public streets over
15mph or if you are under 16, but I've seen children under 10 riding noisy
2-strokes around my town faster much than that, and cops don't even bother with
them (my son was stopped and got a warning a couple years ago only because he
went on the sidewalk).
Any e-scoot that runs over 15mph becomes a moped (licensing is a one-time fee),
and over 30mph becomes motorcycle territory, and both of these classes need
driver's licenses. I don't see argument with any of these laws - they seem like
common sense...none of these make e-scoots illegal. Of course, other states may
(and probably will) do things differently.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
One of the features that is implemented in hardware, but not yet in
software is the "AC Plug In" connection. If you put 12V on this pin
whenever the charging door is open, then the controller will not run
and the check engine light will blink if you try to drive. This
should take car of your issue, and it will be one of the easier
things for me to write the code for.
How about the opposite of that for the existing vehicles that provide
12v IGN through the plug in safety when the "fuel" door is closed?
My last EV used a reed switch and magnet by Magnacraft (I think) to
control the 12v input to the DCP450 controller. Since the DCP only
pulled 1/10th amp from this connection (you powered the contactor,
the DCP grounded it) I chose a 1/2 amp reed switch and magnet set.
You couldn't plug the car in with the fuel door closed, and this
particular switch worked from at least 1/4 inch away from its magnet
(by spec, not "it works"). So the magnet went on the inside of the
"fuel" door and the reed switch above the plug in inside.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Modules only monitor voltage, so adding appropriate value resistors
> in series will not skew the results but will prevent zorch even if
> any two (or more) SS relays are on at the same time. You'll just
> get erroneous readings.
The imperfect nature of the switches can become quite a problem. When
off, they are not completely off -- some leakage current still flows.
When on, they are not completely on -- there is a voltage drop.
This Design Idea used the Fairchild HSR412 to monitor 150 2v cells (a
300vdc pack). The data sheet for this part gives a typical on-resistance
of 27 ohms, and a typical off-state leakage current of 1 uA, both at 25
deg.C. How much error will these values cause?
The desired cell voltage is being read thru 2 "on" relays; 27+27=54
ohms. The other 148 "off" relays can contribute as much as 1uA x 148 =
148uA of leakage current. This leakage current causes a voltage drop
across the "on" resistance of 148uA x 54ohms = 0.008v or 8mv. That is a
0.4% error in a 2v reading due to this source alone.
When you consider that the worst-case leakage and on-resistance are
certain to be worse, and that they get even worse yet over temperature,
you can see that this method is not going to yield high-precision
results.
If you add resistors in series with each relay to limit the current to a
safe value in case of a fault, the errors from leakage currents will
become intolerable. So you pretty much have to add fuses -- hundreds of
fuses, all able to safely break 300vdc.
I really don't think this part is feasible for this application. But it
could probably work if you monitored voltages in 12v steps, and only had
a pack voltage of 144v or so.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> a few weeks ago I picked up some wheel chair batteries that looked
> almost new but when I put a meter on them there were stone cold dead,
> 0v and would not take a charge. I put a 60 watt light bulb and bad
> boy charger (yes across the battery there was almost 120v and about
> 10 am flowing), after a few days the light bulb started to light and
> voltage went down. I discharged and charged a few time and much to
> my surprise they did come back enough to run the light in one of
> my cars... So I'm seeing more evidence that batteries need more that
> just charging depending on their past, something that would cycle
> them, charging and discharging them instead of just letting them
> sit around and once a month (if I remember) topping them off.
I'll bet these were gel cells. They had been run dead, and left that way
for months. That turns the electrolyte into essentially pure water.
Water is a lousy conductor, which is why it wouldn't charge.
You do indeed need to apply a much higher voltage and keep it on for
days to get the battery out of this state. However, 120v on a 12v
battery is taking this to an unnecessary extreme. 24v would have been
more than enough to accomplish the same result.
However, this sort of thing should NEVER happen to a battery. You will
have already lost most of your capacity, and seriously increased its
internal resistance by letting it sit dead for so long. So, your
"battery maintainer" will never have to deal with such a situation,
because it will prevent any battery from ever getting this dead!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce Robertson wrote:
> You would need a crap load of diodes to isolate the
> batteries from each other and prevent one battery from
> drawing a huge load from the others if it went bad
> would you not - is this not one of the biggest dangers
> when connecting many batteries in parallel? Setting
> up like this would have all of the batteries trying to
> be 100% equal in charge, and drawing from each other
> to maintain that. (would also need VERY large cable
> in order to be able to handle the higher current load
> if one battery decided to draw from all the other
> batteries..
Your're right -- if a battery fails shorted, it will pull current from
all the rest and kill them all. Or, melt the wires that connect them all
in parallel.
However, it is rare for a battery to fail shorted, especially if it is
not under a heavy current load at the time (they tend to short *because*
of a very high charge/discharge current).
But, what I do to parallel a large number of batteries is to get a roll
of bare #20 solid wire, and daisy-chain it from battery to battery. If
there *is* a fault, it just melts like a fuse. The charger that is
maintaining them is typically some little regulated wall wart that can
only deliver a few amps at most.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 04:49 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:
> >>Another way using relays is to set them up as a binary tree to address
> >>the batteries. The ones at the battery can be DPST, and the nodes in the
> >>tree are DPDP. That way it doesn't really matter if one "sticks", as the
> >>next one in the tree will isolate it.
> >
> >... as long as the contacts of that relay aren't bent/welded shut.
>
> As long as they don't contact BOTH throws at the same time. Which is a
> HIGHLY unlikely failure mode. (Just how can that occur?)
> Being welded in one direction just means the wrong battery is selected.
Would you like to see a relay that has failed in this mode (both NC and
NO contacts closed at the same time)? It's all too easy to arrange on
most cheap relays!
Most inexpensive relays mount their contacts with plain old
thermoplastic; the kind of material that melts when it gets hot. So, all
you have to do is run excessive current thru the contacts, and the
thermoplastic melts and lets the contacts move. If there is tension on
the connecting wires, the contacts can move together, and VOILA! COM,
NC, and NO all connected together at once!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got a nice G-van I can make you a deal on. Batteries (good ones) not
included....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: electric Caravan for sale
> Ryan wrote:
> >Is this a production or conversion vehicle?
> >Either way it looked great yesterday at $2K
> >They say it's ?value is $45K?
> >
> >It's 27 12v Lead Acid(probably) batteries 324vdc, 208/240vac 40A charger
> >8 hour charge time, 80 MPH, 60 miles range, 5950 Lbs.
> >
> >L8r
> > Ryan
>
> Unless I am greatly mistaken, this is a first generation Chrysler
> EPIC. They had lead acid batteries while the later ones went to liquid
> cooled NiMh.
>
> Nice van, but just about a complete orphan I suspect. Give me something I
> can get parts for.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force (almost there)
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW as a warning to my fellow listers, be careful dealing with Govt
Liquidators. On a item of this size maybe they won't play games, but I and a
friend of mine also in the salvage biz have had so many bad experiances with
them that we quit doing business with them over a year ago. David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[This message has been broadcasted to EV groups
*Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] directly.
Our thanks to Ed. Original message edited]
-
From: DeRoo Chris A [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Vehicle electrification position at John Deere
John Deere has an open position for an electrical engineer
in our ePower technologies group. The job responsibilities
include the design and development of electrified vehicles.
[...]
I am the hiring manager for this position so any questions
may be adddressed to me directly.
Best regards.
Chris De Roo
John Deere ePower Technologies
14401 Carowinds Blvd
Charlotte, NC 28273-4798
(704) 587-2785 Voice
(704) 588-0926 FAX
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
> Hi all,
>
> I don't remember if I mentioned it last time this came up, but on the
> TEVans they used few extra pins in the vehicle end of the connector. The
> way it worked, then when the charge cord was fitted, the cord end
completed
> the circuit between either two or three pins on the male connector on the
> vehicle. 2 pins caused the charger to operate in low current mode and
> limit max draw to 30 amps, 3 pins caused the charger to go to high rate,
40
> amp draw. As long as either two or 3 pins were connected, the drive would
> not engage. On the down side they used a huge really stupid mil-spec
> connector that took three hands to connect or disconnect.
LOL Mike, I always wondered if you ever figured out that rediculous huge
"dongle" for the equally huge plug on the left front fender. Tom always
thought it looked like a component off an elephant. And not a front one at
that. So what did you do, hack it and figure out the pinouts and just use
the ones you needed at the charger end? Or did you change it for something
sensible and patch the hole? I always felt that M/F connector and the
cabling would fetch a buck or two to the right person. BTW, I was told that
was a problem with that van, some of the personel couldn't quite get the
"hang" of plugging it in. Makes me love my Avcon even more. I just wish I
had gotten one of the male ports at the e-bay auction for Toms van. His uses
a Hubble EV connector under the hood which we dont have a male for, not that
we will probably use it when the time comes. Body work is getting closer on
that one, maybe this year will have the $$ for a decent set of batts for it.
I am still holding out for Ni-cads for mine. Regards, David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The annual EAA National Meeting is this Saturday 2/21
from 10 am to 12 noon (see http://eaaev.org )
It will be held at the Silicon Valley Chapter meeting
location in Palo Alto, CA.
For those that can not physically attend, the yahoo IM
webcast is available to listen in. For instructions,
see the main EAA page ( http://eaaev.org ) and follow
the link to the webcast page.
Many awards will be presented and the accomplishments
for the year.
-
=====
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Daivid wrote:
--<SNIP>
LOL Mike, I always wondered if you ever figured out that rediculous huge
"dongle" for the equally huge plug on the left front fender.
Actually, I left it stock, and I suspect Rod Hower hasn't changed it since
he bought it either. That van came with both the standard and the
three-phase cords, I just left the third leg disconnected and used the
three phase one at home. That cord was almost to heavy to pickup. I
carried the other cord with the van as well as the 120 adapter. I did
charge away from home once or twice, but with the long legs that thing had
I only did it because it was available not because it needed it.
I have to admit I like the lightweight, easy to handle cord on the
Solectria. 20 Amps at 220 is plenty of power for a light car like that. I
did install an Avcon unit on my Civic for use with public charging
stations, but the only Avcon charging station in Kansas City is in my own
garage. :^(
Actually there is one Avcon station in the EPA facility somewhere, but I am
not sure where and it is not open to the public. There is/was one out at
Olathe Ford as they had the service contract for the EPA Ranger. I saw it
once, buried in the middle of the fleet service bay.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force (almost there)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I interviewed for this job and they were ready
to make an offer, but my 16 year old daughter was
strongly against moving until she graduates high
school.
I can't go into details of what I seen since some
of it was confidential, but there is definately
EV drive systems involved.
One of my reservations is that it was more of a
'systems' electronics design job of the vehicle. I
prefer
designing power electronics. Some power electronics
design was involved, but I got the impression they
would be buying the drives from outside sources
instead
of designing it internally.
I think this would be a dream job for many on the list
and it's located in Charlotte, NC which is a nice
location.
Rod
--- Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [This message has been broadcasted to EV groups
> *Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] directly.
> Our thanks to Ed. Original message edited]
>
>
> -
> From: DeRoo Chris A [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:39 AM
> Subject: Vehicle electrification position at John
> Deere
>
> John Deere has an open position for an electrical
> engineer
> in our ePower technologies group. The job
> responsibilities
> include the design and development of electrified
> vehicles.
> [...]
> I am the hiring manager for this position so any
> questions
> may be adddressed to me directly.
>
> Best regards.
>
> Chris De Roo
> John Deere ePower Technologies
> 14401 Carowinds Blvd
> Charlotte, NC 28273-4798
> (704) 587-2785 Voice
> (704) 588-0926 FAX
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found out that the TEVan charging connector is the
same as that on an Apache Helicopter (I don't know
what they use it for on the Apache).
We had a visitor at Ametek from Israel and that was
the first comment he made when he seen the van
charging
at work.
After seeing the batteries, water reservoir and hand
held switch I use to change from 1st to 2nd gear, he
had a horrified look on his face and stated 'if this
van was in Israel you would be shot dead, no questions
asked, at the first check point'.
What a wonderfull thought.
Rod
--- David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: protection against dragging the cord
> down the road
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I don't remember if I mentioned it last time this
> came up, but on the
> > TEVans they used few extra pins in the vehicle end
> of the connector. The
> > way it worked, then when the charge cord was
> fitted, the cord end
> completed
> > the circuit between either two or three pins on
> the male connector on the
> > vehicle. 2 pins caused the charger to operate in
> low current mode and
> > limit max draw to 30 amps, 3 pins caused the
> charger to go to high rate,
> 40
> > amp draw. As long as either two or 3 pins were
> connected, the drive would
> > not engage. On the down side they used a huge
> really stupid mil-spec
> > connector that took three hands to connect or
> disconnect.
>
> LOL Mike, I always wondered if you ever figured out
> that rediculous huge
> "dongle" for the equally huge plug on the left front
> fender. Tom always
> thought it looked like a component off an elephant.
> And not a front one at
> that. So what did you do, hack it and figure out the
> pinouts and just use
> the ones you needed at the charger end? Or did you
> change it for something
> sensible and patch the hole? I always felt that M/F
> connector and the
> cabling would fetch a buck or two to the right
> person. BTW, I was told that
> was a problem with that van, some of the personel
> couldn't quite get the
> "hang" of plugging it in. Makes me love my Avcon
> even more. I just wish I
> had gotten one of the male ports at the e-bay
> auction for Toms van. His uses
> a Hubble EV connector under the hood which we dont
> have a male for, not that
> we will probably use it when the time comes. Body
> work is getting closer on
> that one, maybe this year will have the $$ for a
> decent set of batts for it.
> I am still holding out for Ni-cads for mine.
> Regards, David Chapman.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
>
> A year ago I would have agreed with Victor. And while I don't exactly
> agree with the wheel motor guys (not a fair representation of the
> losses), I can say that I have measured light load losses that were
> lots higher than I thought possible in a transmission. I don't have the
> answer for full load numbers.
I do - http://www.metricmind.com/misc/efficiency_gear1.jpg
This is the map for manual transmission for VW golf class of car,
like this one: http://www.metricmind.com/images/city_stromer.jpg
(which is an EV and BTW is on sale:
http://www.metricmind.com/images/city_stromer.jpg).
Anyway,
A common good design gear box will have 90...95% efficiency.
That number is pretty much constant (except if you maneuver
on the parking lot) and almost always used in simulations too.
If you get 70%, you either use overkill transmission or wrong oil
in it, or measured it in highly inefficient driving conditions,
like while crawling at 5 mph.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myles Twete wrote:
I think the main point is that Fairchild Semi recognizes the huge potential
market for these SSR devices in the 2v Li-Ion EV application. Note that the
author of that article wasn't an Average Joe EV enthusiast, but a Fairchild
employee.
I have never even seen an SSR, so here's another question.
How much do they cost?
Can you get them in DPDT packages?
If there are DPDT SSR's, and they are fairly cheap,
AND they don't mess up your voltage reading too much,
you could hook the relays in a binary tree which would
safeguard you against shorting over the voltage bus.
(Assuming that a DPDT SSR is always switched one way or the other... or off)
I thought about trying this with mechanical relays, but
its a bit cost prohibitive. Then again, I wanted to
charge over them, so I think I was looking for min. 5A capacity.
I should look again in the mA class for sensing.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Lee,
How about using a Rotary Stepping Switch, instead of using relays for batery
pack monitoring or balancing.
These switches are listed in www.surplussales.com which are made by LEDEX.
They list up to 12 pole - 18 throw which is motorized. Can be control by
pulse or constant voltage to advance switch one step.
I took a quick look, but I'm not sure if they do what I want.
They might. I hope one does.
I already have a patch pannel for the 13 voltage nodes on
my 12 module pack. It would be great if I could get some sort
of rotary switch to select a battery to sense. Might be
easier than the relays I have considered. Question is...
what does the 12P2T switch do? does it gime me 2 leads to neighboring
poles like I want? Or should I forge ahead with my relay project.
Relays would be easier to digitally control if I ever make it
the the next step towards a BMS.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
My EV has a very simple charger control interlock system, that prevent
startup of controller while charger cord is plug in. It simple, but
expensive.
There are two safety contactors that is located in the battery charger
compartment, that isolates the controller and motor circuit, while the
charger is operating or plug is plug in.
These two contactors also act as a backup shut down control if the main
contactor fails.
When the AC Power Plug is in, the power goes through a 2-pole 60 amp circuit
breaker and than to a AC three pole magnetic contactor with a normally close
power pole.
The coil control to the safety contactors are control by this NC power pole.
When I turn on the this AC magnetic contactor with a momentary on switch, it
can only be turn off with a momentary off switch which I only turn off when
I unplug the EV.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: protection against dragging the cord down the road
> Daivid wrote:
>
> >--<SNIP>
> >
> >LOL Mike, I always wondered if you ever figured out that rediculous huge
> >"dongle" for the equally huge plug on the left front fender.
>
> Actually, I left it stock, and I suspect Rod Hower hasn't changed it since
> he bought it either. That van came with both the standard and the
> three-phase cords, I just left the third leg disconnected and used the
> three phase one at home. That cord was almost to heavy to pickup. I
> carried the other cord with the van as well as the 120 adapter. I did
> charge away from home once or twice, but with the long legs that thing had
> I only did it because it was available not because it needed it.
>
> I have to admit I like the lightweight, easy to handle cord on the
> Solectria. 20 Amps at 220 is plenty of power for a light car like that.
> I
> did install an Avcon unit on my Civic for use with public charging
> stations, but the only Avcon charging station in Kansas City is in my own
> garage. :^(
>
> Actually there is one Avcon station in the EPA facility somewhere, but I
> am
> not sure where and it is not open to the public. There is/was one out at
> Olathe Ford as they had the service contract for the EPA Ranger. I saw it
> once, buried in the middle of the fleet service bay.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force (almost there)
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Paul Wujek wrote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:39:38 -0500
To: eV List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
News from China about its progress on electric vehicles.
link:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-02/20/content_1323681.htm
Steve Lough adds:
This is a very interesting article, and I agree that because of the
inherent simplicity of EVs,(Vs-a-Vs a modern computer driven EFI engine)
it is possible that they COULD catch up with us. It would serve the
Big Three right! ( Although I would not care to see it happen ) for the
Chinese to come up with an affordable, reliable BEV for sale in the
States. ...Say 65 mph, 100 miles of range, for under $18,000. ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: NOW AT: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Aaron,
It's 12 Pole 18 Throw Rotary Switch. It has 12 waffer's with 18 contact
points. You can pair each waffer section for the two output ciruits.
Example: connect the 1st waffer to circuit 1 and 2nd waffer to circuit 2.
Also connect one of the output's to the 1st waffer to the 3rd waffer and
continue on to the 5th,7th,9th and 11 waffer.
The connect the second output to the 2nd waffer and to 4th,6th,8th,10th and
12 waffer.
If you have more than 18 batteries, than do not connect the 18th contact to
the batteries, but use it turn on the control power to the next rotary
switch.
You can also gang more of these rotary switches waffer units together, but
if a coupler slips, than it could be out of sequence. I prefer the
interlock circuit between them.
You may able to find a larger rotary switch with more poles if you go to the
Manufacturer for info.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Birenboim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Lee,
> >
> > How about using a Rotary Stepping Switch, instead of using relays for
> > batery
> > pack monitoring or balancing.
> >
> > These switches are listed in www.surplussales.com which are made by
> > LEDEX.
> > They list up to 12 pole - 18 throw which is motorized. Can be control by
> > pulse or constant voltage to advance switch one step.
>
> I took a quick look, but I'm not sure if they do what I want.
> They might. I hope one does.
>
> I already have a patch pannel for the 13 voltage nodes on
> my 12 module pack. It would be great if I could get some sort
> of rotary switch to select a battery to sense. Might be
> easier than the relays I have considered. Question is...
> what does the 12P2T switch do? does it gime me 2 leads to neighboring
> poles like I want? Or should I forge ahead with my relay project.
> Relays would be easier to digitally control if I ever make it
> the the next step towards a BMS.
>
> --
> Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> Albuquerque, NM |
> aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> >http://aaron.boim.com |
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Yup, first generation Chrysler EPIC.
At first, the specs looked like an AC Propulsion design:
ELECTRIC AC INDUCTION MOTOR;
SINGLE SPEED FRONT-WHEEL-DRIVE TRANSAXLE;
27, 12-VOLT MODULES BATTERY; 324 VOLTS;
ON BOARD CHARGER 208/240 VOLTS, 40 AMP CIRCUIT;
APPROXIMATELY 8 HOUR CHARGE TIME;
TOP SPEED 80 MPH;
RANGE 60 MI
So I called a friend there, who said that all ACP designs use at least
28 12-volt batteries, not 27.
So the question becomes, whose design is this? Does it have any real
power?
And I worry about:
1999 DODGE MPV GRAND CARAVAN SE ELECTRIC POWERED INTERURBAN COMMUTER
VAN.
MILEAGE UNKNOWN, NO KEY.
"NO KEY"?
And why aren't we allowed to look under the hood?
Also, a final note about pricing.
Current bid is $9,050.00. But there's a 10% buyer's premium, so the
real price is $9,955.00. And then you have to add CA sales tax. I did
an Edmund's search on an equivalent gas-powered Grand Caravan with 20K
mileage and came up with $6,742.00.
What intrigues me about this car is that the mechanicals are already in
place for an efficent electric conversion - the single-speed front-wheel
drive transmission is perfect for a conversion. And the battery boxes
are all already there and well-fitted to the interior etc.
So, if you're looking for parts, this might be a good buy.
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Chancey
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: electric Caravan for sale
Ryan wrote:
>Is this a production or conversion vehicle?
>Either way it looked great yesterday at $2K
>They say it's ?value is $45K?
>
>It's 27 12v Lead Acid(probably) batteries 324vdc, 208/240vac 40A
charger
>8 hour charge time, 80 MPH, 60 miles range, 5950 Lbs.
>
>L8r
> Ryan
Unless I am greatly mistaken, this is a first generation Chrysler
EPIC. They had lead acid batteries while the later ones went to liquid
cooled NiMh.
Nice van, but just about a complete orphan I suspect. Give me something
I
can get parts for.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force (almost there)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except for the fact that the Dodge Caravan series of cars are *very* bad
in terms of reliability. We have a 95 model and I am about ready to
shoot it out of a cannon. It's not the engine oddly enough, it's just
the fittings, the brakes, the suspension, etc...
Do a search on Dodge Caravan on google and see what comes up.
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Gee...think it could need, like...some batteries:^0
Only up to 9K at this point. I imagine it would be easier to source
replacement VRLAs than the NMHydrides in the 2nd Generation Epic.
I'd love for more of these to escape the crusher!
If only to demonstrate that overall lack of demand...
Marv
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:08:29 -0800
From: Arthur Keller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [RAV4-EV] EV Caravan For Sale
To: "David Row" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: RAV4 EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
It also appears to need repair, according to the condition code.
Best regards,
Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron Birenboim wrote:
> I have never even seen an SSR, so here's another question.
> How much do they cost? Can you get them in DPDT packages?
> If there are DPDT SSR's, and they are fairly cheap,
> AND they don't mess up your voltage reading too much,
> you could hook the relays in a binary tree which would
> safeguard you against shorting over the voltage bus.
> (Assuming that a DPDT SSR is always switched one way or
> the other... or off)
>
> I thought about trying this with mechanical relays, but
> its a bit cost prohibitive. Then again, I wanted to
> charge over them, so I think I was looking for min. 5A capacity.
> I should look again in the mA class for sensing.
Solid state relays are considerably more expensive than mechanical
relays. They are also far less "ideal" -- 100:1 higher on-resistance,
1000:1 lower off resistance, etc. Their main advantage is "infinite"
life (if current or voltage transients don't get them).
DPDT solid state relays are available, but they are really just four
SPST relays in a single package. You have to deal with failure modes
where any of the "contacts" can fail to switch at the same time as the
rest.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Christopher Zach wrote:
> Except for the fact that the Dodge Caravan series of cars are *very* bad
> in terms of reliability. We have a 95 model and I am about ready to
> shoot it out of a cannon. It's not the engine oddly enough, it's just
> the fittings, the brakes, the suspension, etc...
the consumables get consumed. there's a shock. i have a '90 Caravan with
205k miles on it. i'd still like an EPIC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the consumables get consumed. there's a shock. i have a '90 Caravan with
205k miles on it. i'd still like an EPIC.
By consumables, I am thinking brake lines (snap apart, with all that
entails), proportioning valve (they put it right in the spray from the
front wheels), front caliper (I have never seen a caliper piston *split*
in half before), computer (who thought of putting the main computer
right under the AC system so when the AC drain clogs because it's right
by the belts and pumps the water backs up and pours onto the computer)
hood latch, and so forth. And I've got the version without the
transmission that blows up every 30k-50k miles...
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
I and an associate travelled from Phoenix to attend
the California DGS vehicle auction in Davis. I
purchased the running (albeit marginally) S10e for
20k, and the other non-running S10e for 12k. They
certainly were an expensive acquisition.
We had assumed they were the Panasonic Pb battery
version, but turned out to be Ovonics NiMH.
Kitty Rodden had queried a VIN check by phone (perhaps
to Performance Chevrolet) and informed me of their
configurations after the auction had completed.
Jeff Thomas
"Nick Aronoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was at the auction, but I don't know who got them.
I wasn't ready to spend $20,000 on a car I couldn't
take for a test drive! I am curious why you say they
are NiMH? The paperwork in the glovebox of the one
that moved said it has VRLA batteries.
-Nick Aronoff
>
>
> > >>
> > Did anyone on-list buy one of the 1998 NiMH
S-10's at the OFA auction in Davis, CA today?��I'm
curious as to how much they fetched.
> >
> > Richard
> > 1981 Jet Electrica
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Christopher Zach wrote:
> > the consumables get consumed. there's a shock. i have a '90 Caravan with
> > 205k miles on it. i'd still like an EPIC.
>
> By consumables, I am thinking brake lines (snap apart, with all that
> entails), proportioning valve (they put it right in the spray from the
> front wheels), front caliper (I have never seen a caliper piston *split*
> in half before), computer (who thought of putting the main computer
> right under the AC system so when the AC drain clogs because it's right
> by the belts and pumps the water backs up and pours onto the computer)
> hood latch, and so forth. And I've got the version without the
> transmission that blows up every 30k-50k miles...
none of that happened to my 90. the transmission has been rebuilt twice,
though spending a total of $1200 on transmission work for a $2000 vehicle
that I put 150k miles on seems like an ok deal.
but... i don't remember, wasn't the 95 the newer body style... sadly,
probably the same one at the EPICs?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you clarify a bit more as to "bad experiences"? It seems to me
that, worst comes to worst, you're still covered in the veil of being
able to use a credit card to purchase with. It's generally a good
antidote to "games".
I mean, was it that the item description didn't match the actual item?
Or did they take a long time to deliver? Or... ?
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Chapman
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 12:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EV Caravan For Sale
FWIW as a warning to my fellow listers, be careful dealing with Govt
Liquidators. On a item of this size maybe they won't play games, but I
and a
friend of mine also in the salvage biz have had so many bad experiances
with
them that we quit doing business with them over a year ago. David
Chapman.
--- End Message ---
