EV Digest 3370
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: NiMH & cold weather
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) tire rolling resistance data
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: article: Electric cars: China's hope to catch up with advanced auto maker
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Current vs Voltage danger
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: relays was "Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit " (long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Current vs Voltage danger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zilla hairball Q's
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: relays was "Re: EDN EV monitoring circuit " (long)
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Transmission efficiency
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Transmission efficiency
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zilla hairball Q's
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) unsubscribe
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Zilla hairball Q's
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Cheap Induction Chargers on Ebay
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) TOP Gear magazine
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: TOP Gear magazine
by "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Zilla hairball Q's
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Anti-scooter legislation is OFF-TOPIC
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: shunt alternatives
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Anyone got four Mark 1 Rudman Regs to sell?
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: shunt alternatives
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: shunt alternatives
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: shunt alternatives
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Minneapolis Mayor's Prius Gets Loose
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Slightly OT: Battery business
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Anyone got four Mark 1 Rudman Regs to sell?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: article: Electric cars: China's hope to catch up with advanced auto maker
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) NiMH charge monitor
by Dermot Dobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: shunt alternatives
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: shunt alternatives
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: shunt alternatives
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: shunt alternatives
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: Slightly OT: Battery business
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) Re: Anyone got four Mark 1 Rudman Regs to sell?
by Travis Raybold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
That's NiCad that is relatively cold weather immune. NiMH is less so,
although better than lead. Enough to run without heaters most of the
time for NiMH. And all of the time for NiCad in places like Boston. But
the difference between most of the time and all of the time is a big
one, IMO.
Places that are warmer don't really notice that (cold weather) effect.
All those guys on the left coast have it so easy. It doesn't stay at
-5F/-21C for a week at a shot every year.
Of course, if you had reliable heaters, or only run to 40% DOD
regularly, it should be fine for NiMH.
Seth
I still think of NiCad as the Holy Grail, but that's for conditions in
the Northeast, and my personal opinion.
On Feb 21, 2004, at 8:54 AM, Jim Coate wrote:
One other thing that ZipCar told me was that during the really cold
weather (consistently < 30 degrees F), they take the Rav4 EVs out of
service. They apparently had problems with them during the prolonged
cold spell we had about a month ago.
But... I thought one of the perks of Nickle-based chemistries was
being indifferent to the cold, although more sensitive to heat. During
my drive yesterday it was probably 40-ish and after a bit I noticed
fans running in the back which I thought were to cool the battery
down.
Now that the initial thrill has worn off, logical thought sets in...
not being able to drive on cold New England days would be a bad thing,
rather eliminating NiMH as 'the holy grail' of batteries.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, it is data from VW TDI folk looking at the mileage difference
between the 3 tires available on their cars.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?
Cat=&Board=UBB16&Number=664846&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&vc=1&fpar
t=1
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IMO, the Chinese recognize that with a billion people there, they:
A) already have a pollution problem with a much lower cars"people
ratio than us
B) realize that someday gasoline is likely to become more costly and
or scarce
C) are hosting the Olympics and want to have a clean presentation
Maybe someone already said this and I missed it, but I'd include this in
your list of reasons:
D) they are building the biggest hydroelectric facility in the world,
the Three Gorges Dam.
This facility will give them 18 billion! watts of "free" electric power
(the largest nuclear facility in the world, the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa
facility in Japan uses 7 mega reactors and only generates 8.1 billion
total watts of peak power).
Among other things, this means super cheap EV charging, as well as super
cheap aluminum production capability. It's widely believed that most
global aluminum production will shift there shortly after the facility's
completion in 2009.
-Ken Trough
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chris,
How about using Fuseable Wire, the type you can pick up at any auto parts
store.
In my EV, I have a large industrial set screw terminal strip that is 4 feet
long. I used these fuseable links which is cross connect between two
adjacent connections.
They range from 40 amp to 5 amp for 8 to 18 gage wire.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: Current vs Voltage danger
> Well, while I have never really worried about blowing myself up by
> touching a 12 volt source, I have wondered if there could be another
> problem:
>
> If you were to parallel say 20 hawkers together into one big 12 volt
> battery, what happens if one of those hawkers goes bad in the middle of
> the night? Shorts out, heck knows what. 19 other Hawkers will gladly
> feed their current into the now shorted battery.
>
> Bad? On my shed project I followed the NEC requirements for solar panels
> in parallel and put a series fuse on the end (well, actually in the
> middle) of each series string of batteries. Thus if one string were to
> go bad, the fuse would blow before the other strings fed themselves thru
> it.
>
> Overkill?
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember their golf cart did over one hundred miles on a charge and used a
Lynch motor. Not sure about this one. I think they use 8 batteries instead
of 6. Lawrence Rhodes......
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:21:14 -0000
From: "anbausa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2004 Summit - new NEV from Columbia ParCar
Columbia ParCar Corp. Creates New Passenger Vehicle - Columbia�
SummitT
The Ultimate Driving Experience
http://www.materialhandlinghq.com/productnews_000000028871.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> The mercury displacement contactors have
> 50,000 hours on them, whats that a million cycles?, and not 1 failure
> yet! In service 15 years and counting. I'll take a look at the brand
> and model if anyone is interested, maybe they make larger ones.
"Magnecraft" I'll bet. Mercury wetted relays and mercury displacement
contactors are nearly immortal. But, they *will* fail spectacularly if
you exceed their ratings! Very messy to clean up afterwards, too!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> If you were to parallel say 20 hawkers together into one big 12 volt
> battery, what happens if one of those hawkers goes bad in the middle
> of the night? Shorts out, heck knows what. 19 other Hawkers will
> gladly feed their current into the now shorted battery.
First, a cell is unlikely to short except while drawing or charging at
high current. An open circuit is a much more likely failure mode.
Second, if a cell *does* short, it only reduces it to a 10v battery. If
all the other batteries are fully charged (13v), that puts 13v on a 10v
battery, or 2.6v for each cell. This is high, but not ruinously so in
the short run. The 10v battery charges, its voltage shoots up to this
2.6v/cell, and the current goes down to a low level, well under 1 amp.
If you left it this way for hours, the current would slowly rise as the
battery heats up and starts to vent. After a day or two, it would be hot
and venting profusely. Days later, it would probably run out of
electrolyte and become an open circuit.
Third, if all cells in such a battery do short, then the current could
get quite high. Most likely, the wires that connect the battery would
melt (act as a fuse). As a rule, I parallel batteries with small-gauge
wire precisely for this reason.
>
> Bad? On my shed project I followed the NEC requirements for solar panels
> in parallel and put a series fuse on the end (well, actually in the
> middle) of each series string of batteries. Thus if one string were to
> go bad, the fuse would blow before the other strings fed themselves thru it.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> As an unrelated question ( probably OT, so answers probably
> best posted off-list ), can anyone tell me where to find
> a Linux program that is like Hyperterminal?
> I need to "talk" to a small computer board that speaks plain
> ond RS232 ASCII text. No phone numbers to dial, just straight
> RS232 connection. I hate having to reboot in Windoze just to
> reload that board, apart from that, I never use Windoze at home now.
>
Most linux distros come with minicom, it's probably already installed on
your computer.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
"Magnecraft" I'll bet. Mercury wetted relays and mercury displacement
contactors are nearly immortal. But, they *will* fail spectacularly if
you exceed their ratings! Very messy to clean up afterwards, too!
Yeah, and if the thought of vaporized mercury doesn't give you pause,
it should.
I'm not saying the components shouldn't be used. Just take extreme
precaution that, should they fail, the mercury is contained. Liquid
mercury is not nearly as toxic as many people think. Murcury vapor is
much more toxic than most people realize. Extremely small amounts can
be very dangerous indeed.
_________________________________________________
Michael Hurley Digital Print Specialist
AlphaGraphics, Inc. (901) 681-9909
1195 Ridgeway Rd. (901) 761-2139 FAX
Memphis, TN 38119 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth writes:
>> Those aren't gears. They are iso lines of efficiency (solid)
>> and power (dashed)
Roger Stockton wrote:
> I realise that, however, if this is supposed to be representative
> of a multi-speed gearbox, then efficiency would be expected to vary
> depending on the gear ratio selected (number of gears in mesh,
> reduction ratio, etc.), so it seems somewhat meaningless to have
> an efficiency map that doesn't inidicate what gear it is for, nor
> how efficiency varies in the other gears (even if that variation
> is slight).
It also seems that "efficiency" isn't the right metric over a broad
range of speeds and horsepower levels. For example, efficiency is zero
at no load (high speed, zero torque) and at stall (high torque, no rpm).
Isn't power loss what matters more? Who cares if the efficiency of your
gearbox is 50% at light load, if that only represents 500 watts (1000
watts in, 500 watts out)? For example, my LeCar draws about 10 amps x
132vdc = 1320 watts from the pack with the wheels spinning in the air,
and about 5 amps x 132vdc = 660 watts with the motor alone spinning at
the same speed on the bench. The drive train losses are therefore about
660 watts. I suspect that this loss is roughly constant; i.e. maybe it
doubles if driving at the same speed but at high torque.
But it's clear that transmission losses can't be all that high, because
it doesn't get hot. A manual transmission has no cooling system; just
radiation from its surface, and whatever airflow manages to wander over
it.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, losses are probably a better concept. In an ICE car/truck, they
do get warm, probably less so in an EV. Using efficiency as a metric is
a nice way to compare if you can compare relative losses at a given
output shaft speed and torque with varying input speed and torque. And
of course motor efficiency is the other half of the picture.
Seth
On Feb 21, 2004, at 1:23 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Seth writes:
Those aren't gears. They are iso lines of efficiency (solid)
and power (dashed)
Roger Stockton wrote:
I realise that, however, if this is supposed to be representative
of a multi-speed gearbox, then efficiency would be expected to vary
depending on the gear ratio selected (number of gears in mesh,
reduction ratio, etc.), so it seems somewhat meaningless to have
an efficiency map that doesn't inidicate what gear it is for, nor
how efficiency varies in the other gears (even if that variation
is slight).
It also seems that "efficiency" isn't the right metric over a broad
range of speeds and horsepower levels. For example, efficiency is zero
at no load (high speed, zero torque) and at stall (high torque, no
rpm).
Isn't power loss what matters more? Who cares if the efficiency of your
gearbox is 50% at light load, if that only represents 500 watts (1000
watts in, 500 watts out)? For example, my LeCar draws about 10 amps x
132vdc = 1320 watts from the pack with the wheels spinning in the air,
and about 5 amps x 132vdc = 660 watts with the motor alone spinning at
the same speed on the bench. The drive train losses are therefore about
660 watts. I suspect that this loss is roughly constant; i.e. maybe it
doubles if driving at the same speed but at high torque.
But it's clear that transmission losses can't be all that high, because
it doesn't get hot. A manual transmission has no cooling system; just
radiation from its surface, and whatever airflow manages to wander over
it.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Richard Bebbington wrote:
> As an unrelated question ( probably OT, so answers probably
> best posted off-list ), can anyone tell me where to find
> a Linux program that is like Hyperterminal?
minicom
google can find it for you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> As an unrelated question ( probably OT, so answers probably
> best posted off-list ), can anyone tell me where to find
> a Linux program that is like Hyperterminal?
Why the hell would you WANT a programme like hyperterminal, don't you want
something that works?
I lost count of the hours I used to spend battling that utter waste of disk
space.
Discovering RealTerm was a great joy.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations! I was thinking of running the bid, but I thought they
might be going to someone who needed them more than I. I was right, and
am glad overall.
The MC should be simply plug and play. Try plugging it into the car and
see what happens.
Chris
Jack Knopf wrote:
Well I won the two 6.6kw induction chargers that were on ebay for $76.
Tomorrow we will get the chargers and try again to charge the batteries on
the two electricars(a prizm and a 3/4 ton pickup). We had one little 1000
watt charger the first time and had no luck getting it two work. I have
learned a lot since then. I have read all the manuals from the Electricar
site. I still can not find a schematic for the charge circuit. Has anyone
ever actually tore into the charge circuit on an Electricar? From what I
saw there is one cable going from the charge port to the charge controller.
In it is 10 or so black leads and 10 or so white leads . All 10 leads of
each polarity are tied together. I assume that is the rectified DC at that
point. But there is one other lead that I am not sure about that goes from
the charge port to the charge controller. Could it be some kind of sense
lead that tells the charger to turn on? Does the voltage of the batteries
have to be a certain voltage for the charger to turn on? If we can just get
the charger to turn on we can bypass the controller, contactors and go
directly to the batteries. Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the ebay
chargers,
Jack and Jim.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wasn't there a Brit EV'r who was to be in TOP Gear? I looked in the Feb
issue and couldn't find anything...
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth,
Yes. Paul Compton.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I haven't seen the article, either.
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: TOP Gear magazine
Wasn't there a Brit EV'r who was to be in TOP Gear? I looked in the Feb
issue and couldn't find anything...
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> As an unrelated question ( probably OT, so answers probably
> best posted off-list ), can anyone tell me where to find
> a Linux program that is like Hyperterminal?
Try minicom. Install your distrib's package, or go to
http://alioth.debian.org/projects/minicom/
Lonnie Borntreger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Discussion of building or buying electric scooters, stories about EV
evangelism using
them, range and charging questions, etc. are on topic. Discussion about the
safety
of scooters vs. bicycles is off-topic, even if the scooters happen to be
electric.
-----------
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:13:57 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Anti-scooter legislation is OFF-TOPIC
I thought we were talking about electric scooters...don't those count?
_________________________________________________________________
Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday.
http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> What have others used as alternatives to a shunt for current readings?
> I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top out at well under 1000
> amps. Specific suggestions that are in the ballpark price range of a
> shunt would be great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
LEMusa.com
Lem hall semsors. fr om 50 amps up.
I use a LA 100P Sensor in all the PFC chargers. They are 100 amps
devices. And need a + and - 15 supply.
It's a $25 sensor.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I am putting together bits for a rebuild of my Civic EV as a plug-in
hybrid, and after disappointing results with the PowerCheq units I am
planning on going back to the more reliable Ruman Regs. Unfortunately of
my original 13, I used one for a battery tester project, killed one, and
sold two, so I need four to get it going again. For consistency I would
rather stick with an all Mark 1 setup, but I may not have any choice but
upgrade to the new versions. All but one of mine are the external load
variety.
So, anyone got four of the old flavor about they would be willing to
sell? Or should I seriously consider moving up to the new versions? Since
I am using a Zivan NG5 charger I really can't take advantage of the RegBus
system, (or has someone come up with a Zivan hack?)
BTW, did anyone ever find a good solution for enclosing the Regs? Last
time I had them all clustered together with long leads to each
battery. This time I was thinking perhaps of making individual units of
them, each in its own enclosed box with the load mounted on the outside,
then mount the box directly on the battery they serve. Any recommendations
on this?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force (almost there)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
Check these out, I'm using them on by BLDC controls.
They work quite well and are less than $5 in quantity.
(I'm not sure what the low volume price is, but
probably less then LEM.)
http://www.allegromicro.com/hall/currentsensor.asp
Rod
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ryan Bohm wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > What have others used as alternatives to a shunt
> for current readings?
> > I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top
> out at well under 1000
> > amps. Specific suggestions that are in the
> ballpark price range of a
> > shunt would be great.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ryan
> LEMusa.com
> Lem hall semsors. fr om 50 amps up.
> I use a LA 100P Sensor in all the PFC chargers. They
> are 100 amps
> devices. And need a + and - 15 supply.
> It's a $25 sensor.
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see that the max. value that these specify can be read is 100 amps.
Could they be placed futher from the current supply to read higher
currents? That would be a cool alternative to a regular hall sensor
placed in a slotted ferrite core (which is my other choice for reading
up to 1000 amps).
Thanks,
Ryan
Rich,
Check these out, I'm using them on by BLDC controls.
They work quite well and are less than $5 in quantity.
(I'm not sure what the low volume price is, but
probably less then LEM.)
http://www.allegromicro.com/hall/currentsensor.asp
Rod
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi,
What have others used as alternatives to a shunt
for current readings?
I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top
out at well under 1000
amps. Specific suggestions that are in the
ballpark price range of a
shunt would be great.
Thanks,
Ryan
LEMusa.com
Lem hall semsors. fr om 50 amps up.
I use a LA 100P Sensor in all the PFC chargers. They
are 100 amps
devices. And need a + and - 15 supply.
It's a $25 sensor.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--
Ever thought of driving an Electric Car? Visit http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, I just realized that these have the current flowing directly
through them. At first glance, I thought they just detected the current
like a regular Hall sensor...so I guess I just answered my own question.
-Ryan
Rich,
Check these out, I'm using them on by BLDC controls.
They work quite well and are less than $5 in quantity.
(I'm not sure what the low volume price is, but
probably less then LEM.)
http://www.allegromicro.com/hall/currentsensor.asp
Rod
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi,
What have others used as alternatives to a shunt
for current readings?
I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top
out at well under 1000
amps. Specific suggestions that are in the
ballpark price range of a
shunt would be great.
Thanks,
Ryan
LEMusa.com
Lem hall semsors. fr om 50 amps up.
I use a LA 100P Sensor in all the PFC chargers. They
are 100 amps
devices. And need a + and - 15 supply.
It's a $25 sensor.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--
Ever thought of driving an Electric Car? Visit http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Damon Swanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This article from the Minneapolis StarTribune this morning says the
mayor was "driving his city vehicle, a Toyota Prius Hybrid." When
he got out of the car without turning it off it drifted away ending
in a snow bank. Apparently it was so quiet (of course) that the mayor
thought it had been properly shut down.
> http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4620976.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Was poking around and saw that there was a battery manufacturing
business forsale in Burbank, CA. Right now, it deals with motion
picture cameras mainly, but I've seen several listers mention getting
into the battery biz.... so here is a chance.
NOTE: I have no affiliation with this, and have no idea whether or not
it is a good, bad or indifferent deal.
http://www.businessbroker.net/listings/blist_details.ihtml?list_id=24448&s=3
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
One source of supply for utilitie boxes that I used is
www.radioshack.com/1b2b which is a commercial and industrial sales division.
The Rudman Mk 2 regulator I use is 2.5 inch wide by 4.5 inch long. It will
fit several sizes that range from 3 to 4 inches wide by 5 to 6 inches long
and height as low as 1 inch.
There are also boxes design for power supplys that have air vents in them.
There are mountings for a chassic plate. To fit the MK regulator mounting
holes, it would be best to call 1-800-442-7221 and ask Tech Department to
find out the sizes of the chassic mountings.
The boxes they list are PAC TEC
BUD Industrial Inc.
TDP Electronics
SERPAC Electronics
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 8:29 PM
Subject: Anyone got four Mark 1 Rudman Regs to sell?
> Hi folks,
>
> I am putting together bits for a rebuild of my Civic EV as a plug-in
> hybrid, and after disappointing results with the PowerCheq units I am
> planning on going back to the more reliable Ruman Regs. Unfortunately of
> my original 13, I used one for a battery tester project, killed one, and
> sold two, so I need four to get it going again. For consistency I would
> rather stick with an all Mark 1 setup, but I may not have any choice but
> upgrade to the new versions. All but one of mine are the external load
> variety.
>
> So, anyone got four of the old flavor about they would be willing to
> sell? Or should I seriously consider moving up to the new versions?
> Since
> I am using a Zivan NG5 charger I really can't take advantage of the RegBus
> system, (or has someone come up with a Zivan hack?)
>
> BTW, did anyone ever find a good solution for enclosing the Regs? Last
> time I had them all clustered together with long leads to each
> battery. This time I was thinking perhaps of making individual units of
> them, each in its own enclosed box with the load mounted on the outside,
> then mount the box directly on the battery they serve. Any
> recommendations
> on this?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force (almost there)
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I say more power to them. If anybody can figure out how to build affordable
products it's the Chinese; and they have the advantage of so little
competition here.
--
_______ Shawn T. Rutledge
(_ | |_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://ecloud.org:8080
__) | | \________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm upgrading my 36V electric bike from 4Ah NiCds to GP 13Ah NiMH. Peak
load is ~20A, charging at the 7hour rate.
I'd like to fit a handlebar mounted charge/discharge monitor to provide a
reasonably accurate display of actual charge remaining. (obviously, I'd
just fit the display on the handlebars, placing the sensor in the main
current path).
A total of 10 LEDS would be fine, accounting for the 1.4:1 charge:discharge
difference.
Anyone have pointers to a circuit for such a beast?
dermot
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.lemusa.com/LEM/LEMProd.nsf/ad1cbd3aab11786b862565a200570d63/
5665c89217812a848625683200538361/$FILE/E516000S.pdf
LEMs are rated by nominal current. So the 1000A sensor above can read
+/- 1500A. They have larger units too. I ampretty sure it is more than
$5, probably more than $50.
Seth
On Feb 21, 2004, at 11:59 PM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
I see that the max. value that these specify can be read is 100 amps.
Could they be placed futher from the current supply to read higher
currents? That would be a cool alternative to a regular hall sensor
placed in a slotted ferrite core (which is my other choice for reading
up to 1000 amps).
Thanks,
Ryan
Rich,
Check these out, I'm using them on by BLDC controls.
They work quite well and are less than $5 in quantity.
(I'm not sure what the low volume price is, but
probably less then LEM.)
http://www.allegromicro.com/hall/currentsensor.asp
Rod
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi,
What have others used as alternatives to a shunt
for current readings?
I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top
out at well under 1000
amps. Specific suggestions that are in the
ballpark price range of a
shunt would be great.
Thanks,
Ryan
LEMusa.com
Lem hall semsors. fr om 50 amps up. I use a LA 100P Sensor in all
the PFC chargers. They
are 100 amps
devices. And need a + and - 15 supply.
It's a $25 sensor.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--
Ever thought of driving an Electric Car? Visit http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Allegro application engineer said they plan
on making these devices up to at least 1000 amps,
maybe 2000. If they think there is a market at 2000
they'll make them.
Otmar, give them a call!.
I've tested a 100 Amp device and got very accurate
results compared to my Tektronix clamp on going into
my THS730 oscilliscope measuring 'RMS average
current'.
I also used my Flir infrared camera to check
out temperature rise around the PC board and solder
joint. I only ran the control at 50Amps continuous,
but there was no indication of temperature rise.
Rod.
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I see that the max. value that these specify can be
> read is 100 amps.
> Could they be placed futher from the current supply
> to read higher
> currents? That would be a cool alternative to a
> regular hall sensor
> placed in a slotted ferrite core (which is my other
> choice for reading
> up to 1000 amps).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> >Rich,
> >Check these out, I'm using them on by BLDC
> controls.
> >They work quite well and are less than $5 in
> quantity.
> >(I'm not sure what the low volume price is, but
> >probably less then LEM.)
> >http://www.allegromicro.com/hall/currentsensor.asp
> >Rod
> >--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Ryan Bohm wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>
> >>>What have others used as alternatives to a shunt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>for current readings?
> >>
> >>
> >>>I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top
> >>>
> >>>
> >>out at well under 1000
> >>
> >>
> >>>amps. Specific suggestions that are in the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>ballpark price range of a
> >>
> >>
> >>>shunt would be great.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Ryan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>LEMusa.com
> >> Lem hall semsors. fr om 50 amps up.
> >>I use a LA 100P Sensor in all the PFC chargers.
> They
> >>are 100 amps
> >>devices. And need a + and - 15 supply.
> >> It's a $25 sensor.
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Rich Rudman
> >>Manzanita Micro
> >>www.manzanitamicro.com
> >>1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ever thought of driving an Electric Car? Visit
> http://www.evsource.com
>
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod, I noted a frequency bandwidth of 13kHz at -3dB.
In your opinion is that important if one is switching at say 25kHz? My
boat motor controller is a 22kHz which I can just hear. And if I were
to play with a high fundamental frequency motor, like 800+Hz, I might
want 20kHz or more. Maybe this propagation delay/response time/ rise
time can be at least partly compensated for in software?
Should this thread go to evtech?
Seth
On Feb 21, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
Rich,
Check these out, I'm using them on by BLDC controls.
They work quite well and are less than $5 in quantity.
(I'm not sure what the low volume price is, but
probably less then LEM.)
http://www.allegromicro.com/hall/currentsensor.asp
Rod
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi,
What have others used as alternatives to a shunt
for current readings?
I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top
out at well under 1000
amps. Specific suggestions that are in the
ballpark price range of a
shunt would be great.
Thanks,
Ryan
LEMusa.com
Lem hall semsors. fr om 50 amps up.
I use a LA 100P Sensor in all the PFC chargers. They
are 100 amps
devices. And need a + and - 15 supply.
It's a $25 sensor.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Ryan Bohm wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > What have others used as alternatives to a shunt for current readings?
> > I've looked at hall-effect sensors, but most top out at well under 1000
> > amps. Specific suggestions that are in the ballpark price range of a
> > shunt would be great.
>
> The most common alternative is just a length of copper wire; one of the
> pieces already part of the vehicle's wiring harness. Good point: It's
> cheap, easy, and obviously can be sized for any current. Bad points: You
> have to calibrate it yourself, and copper changes its resistance with
> temperature, so it is less accurate.
The calibrating is not that hard , If you know your battery chargers out put
or can read it with another meter that will give you a starting point ,
Here's what I did before I had an e meter . I set the charger for 20 amps,
take one wire form the meter I'm going to use and connect it to one end of
the long power cable then with a pen and the other meter wire I go along
the cable sticking it with the pin and seeing what the reading is . On my
work truck I have a analog meter that reads 20 full scale and wanted the
meter to read full at 400 amps. I found a place along the cable where the
meter reads 1 . I then put a slice in the wire and pulled a few strands out
, soldered the meter wire on , . If you have an e meter and just want
another meter then you can calibrate it with the e meter while driving and
using more amps to get more accurate. Some day I'm going to put a dpdt
switch on it and use that same meter to read motor amp
Steve Clunn .
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Evlist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:18 AM
Subject: Slightly OT: Battery business
> Was poking around and saw that there was a battery manufacturing
> business forsale in Burbank, CA. Right now, it deals with motion
> picture cameras mainly, but I've seen several listers mention getting
> into the battery biz.... so here is a chance.
>
> NOTE: I have no affiliation with this, and have no idea whether or not
> it is a good, bad or indifferent deal.
>
>
http://www.businessbroker.net/listings/blist_details.ihtml?list_id=24448&s=3
Hi EVerybody;
Thanks, Lonnie, for the heads up. Don't imagine that they, the batteries
they make are any exhotic thing for EV's but maybe could be redesigned?
Price is right, though, and ya get the used one enployee,too? The guy that
knows whats going on. So Damn far away for me, from CT, but if they were in
Stamford , New London, or Hartford, would check it out. Any other Listers
closer interested? A Lister owned could be battery biz, wee could sell/buy
stock among ourselves. Anybody?
Could we do anything with this. We have the motors, controllers,
chargers, already, all we need is the batteries!
Thinking outloud
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
if you do go to the new version, let me know. i ordered 20, but it turns
out i only needed 10, so ive got 10 extras sitting around (external
load, with the reg bus) that i could let go at a discount...
--travis
Mike Chancey wrote:
Hi folks,
I am putting together bits for a rebuild of my Civic EV as a plug-in
hybrid, and after disappointing results with the PowerCheq units I am
planning on going back to the more reliable Ruman Regs. Unfortunately
of my original 13, I used one for a battery tester project, killed
one, and sold two, so I need four to get it going again. For
consistency I would rather stick with an all Mark 1 setup, but I may
not have any choice but upgrade to the new versions. All but one of
mine are the external load variety.
So, anyone got four of the old flavor about they would be willing to
sell? Or should I seriously consider moving up to the new versions?
Since I am using a Zivan NG5 charger I really can't take advantage of
the RegBus system, (or has someone come up with a Zivan hack?)
BTW, did anyone ever find a good solution for enclosing the Regs?
Last time I had them all clustered together with long leads to each
battery. This time I was thinking perhaps of making individual units
of them, each in its own enclosed box with the load mounted on the
outside, then mount the box directly on the battery they serve. Any
recommendations on this?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force (almost there)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
.
--- End Message ---
