EV Digest 3373
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) For those who want bad-boy chargers..
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Hi frequency battery :-)
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re:(OT)Hi frequency battery :-)
by "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re:(OT)Hi frequency battery :-)
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) ID qyjh... thanks
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) RE: EVchem
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Looking for information about BMS's
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Looking for information about BMS's
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Looking for information about BMS's
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Evercel is no more!
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Looking for information about BMS's
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Evercel is no more!
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Evercel is no more!
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Evercel is no more!
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) evercel
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Zebra (OT)Hi frequency battery :-)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Zebra ruminations continued
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Transmission efficiency
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Looking for information about BMS's
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Screaming Brushes
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) AC4-4002 6.75 inch 75v 7HP ADC motor (Tropica)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) EV Charger News has been updated -- www.evchargernews.com
by "Tom Dowling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: The Right Stuff
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
mpja.com has some 2KVA Variacs on sale for $90.
http://www.mpja.com/allpictspl.asp?dept=287&product=15311+MG
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote-
A good starting point(glider) for an electric. Yes! But I'm sure ya
can't inport it here, as it's a Diseasel, but a damn good one, would it do
better as a hybrid? We can't EVen get a Lupo here, a 80 mpg diesel VW.
Betya VW doesn't even sell it in Europe? It's just a " see what we can
do" thing, unlike the silly Phaeten, or what ever they call it, a most un
Volks Wagon!Gees! Just buy a Mercedes if you want a thing like that! Sigh!
Hi Bob
I believe that this car is "what is called" a hybrid.
(not a real hybrid, as it is entirely fuel driven, but it is what Honda and
Toyota call a hybrid)
VW just doesn't use the word. :-)
The starter motor/generator also assists during acceleration and provides
regen.
Works sorta like the Honda IMA.
More info on this page-
http://www.greatchange.org/footnotes-1-liter-car.html
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
Updated!
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Come on, it says "AT&T 900 MHz cordless phone batteries on sale" No mention
anywhere I see of a 900MHz battery? Took about 1/2 hour to bring up the
main web page so unless you have something else to do while you wait don't
bother looking.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: February 23, 2004 7:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Hi frequency battery :-)
You all have seen 12V battery.
How about 900 MHz battery?
http://www.sunnbattery.com/
Oh, well...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thats true, it does say that in the description.
What Victor was remarking about was the actual packaging of the
product. In big bold letters it says "900 MHZ BATTERY" It's
obviously a packaging screw-up and one that wouldn't seem funny to
the general public, most wouldn't even get it. But those that know
the difference between AC and DC and the basics of how batteries
work, might get a chuckle out of it. Yes, if you're on a dial-up,
don't bother.
In fact, it's now off topic so don't bother replying!!!
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Harris, Lawrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:49 PM
>To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Subject: RE: Hi frequency battery :-)
>
>
>Come on, it says "AT&T 900 MHz cordless phone batteries on sale"
No mention
>anywhere I see of a 900MHz battery? Took about 1/2 hour to bring
up the
>main web page so unless you have something else to do while you
wait don't
>bother looking.
>
>Lawrence
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
>Sent: February 23, 2004 7:24 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Hi frequency battery :-)
>
>You all have seen 12V battery.
>How about 900 MHz battery?
>
>http://www.sunnbattery.com/
>
>Oh, well...
>
>Victor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone make any specific part recommendations, for what rectifiers you'd use
with these variacs?
--c.r.
Quoting John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> mpja.com has some 2KVA Variacs on sale for $90.
> http://www.mpja.com/allpictspl.asp?dept=287&product=15311+MG
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 2 KVA / 120VAC, you'll get about 16.7 amps max out of the variac. You
are supposed to run the rectifiers at an average DC current less than half
of their rated amperage. Also, make sure they are rated for a max. voltage
over the peak voltage you are operating at. These are 120V input variacs,
so a 200V rectifier or higher would work.
I've used a surplus 60A three phase bridge rectifier before. I believe it
was from surpluscenter.com, though I'm not entirely sure. The third phase
just means that you have an extra diode section you won't be using. I liked
it because it had a built-in surface ready to be screwed to a heatsink.
Fair radio (fairradio.com) usually has some inexpensive bridge rectifiers,
too.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Robison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:04 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
>
> Can anyone make any specific part recommendations, for what
> rectifiers you'd use with these variacs?
>
> --c.r.
>
>
> Quoting John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > mpja.com has some 2KVA Variacs on sale for $90.
> > http://www.mpja.com/allpictspl.asp?dept=287&product=15311+MG
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can get 25 amp full wave bridge rectifiers from your local radio shack
for about $3. They will get hot and will need a to be put on a heat sink.
You can probably get the same thing online at multiple sites, but a quick
trip to RS will save you the shipping :-)
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=276-1185
damon
From: Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:04:27 -0600
Can anyone make any specific part recommendations, for what rectifiers
you'd use
with these variacs?
--c.r.
Quoting John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> mpja.com has some 2KVA Variacs on sale for $90.
> http://www.mpja.com/allpictspl.asp?dept=287&product=15311+MG
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Say �good-bye� to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial
offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm How about
> this
> with
> > a Tango drive train. Oh heck....just one motor and 250 pounds of
> Lithium.
> > This thing aught to go a long way. Lawrence Rhodes....
Yeah. It looks like a really nice example of good aerodynamics. I
begin to think about building a tadpole 3-wheeler with that shape...
What kind of donor car could you find at a junkyard which is RWD and
has a simple, non-power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering setup and
fairly small light control arms, wheels etc.?
=====
. _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__) | | \______________________________________________
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think it's a packaging screwup at all. What they mean is, 'this is
the most common battery for 900Mhz portable phones'. It's just funny to
battery people - if you were a consumer with no real understanding of
batteries looking for the right battery for your phone, you'd find it
convenient.
I think sunnbattery.com is suffering from having been posted to the EVDL,
though. ;-) Their web site takes forever to load now
ObEV: I am attempting to understand, on a chemical and physical level,
exactly how a Zebra battery works and whether it would be possible for me to
build my own. (for fun, you know?)
So far I've gotten to the point where I grok that beta alumina is a ceramic
crystal. I haven't been able to find anyone to explain to me how beta
alumina is synthesized - if any of you out there know, please reply off
list.
Anyway, the Zebra (www.betard.co.uk) which I always thought was the perfect
EV battery if a bit too expensive for us mere mortals at $10k a pack, turns
out to have a fatal flaw - it has 110W heat loss at idle. Which means in a
day, the battery loses 2.4kwh! A week of sitting around, and your battery
pack is flat as a pancake. But the 110wh/kg (55wh/lb) number is tasty for
sure.
I'm thinking of starting yet another mailing list, a evchem one, to discuss
amatuar experiments in battery chemistries.
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:59 AM
Subject: Re:(OT)Hi frequency battery :-)
> Thats true, it does say that in the description.
>
> What Victor was remarking about was the actual packaging of the
> product. In big bold letters it says "900 MHZ BATTERY" It's
> obviously a packaging screw-up and one that wouldn't seem funny to
> the general public, most wouldn't even get it. But those that know
> the difference between AC and DC and the basics of how batteries
> work, might get a chuckle out of it. Yes, if you're on a dial-up,
> don't bother.
>
> In fact, it's now off topic so don't bother replying!!!
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Harris, Lawrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:49 PM
> >To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> >Subject: RE: Hi frequency battery :-)
> >
> >
> >Come on, it says "AT&T 900 MHz cordless phone batteries on sale"
> No mention
> >anywhere I see of a 900MHz battery? Took about 1/2 hour to bring
> up the
> >main web page so unless you have something else to do while you
> wait don't
> >bother looking.
> >
> >Lawrence
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> >Sent: February 23, 2004 7:24 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Hi frequency battery :-)
> >
> >You all have seen 12V battery.
> >How about 900 MHz battery?
> >
> >http://www.sunnbattery.com/
> >
> >Oh, well...
> >
> >Victor
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on castor)
Found virus WORM_BAGLE.B in file ohexmmockp.exe
The file is deleted.
---------------------------------------------------------
Yours ID gkusywfgwy
--
Thank
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on castor)
ohexmmockp.exe is removed from here because it contains a virus.
---------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about a copper-aluminum cell? About 2Vpc nominal is certainly
convenient to deal with, and the materials lend themselves to conduction of
high currents.
Anyone experimented with this?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon "Sheer" Pullen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:53 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re:(OT)Hi frequency battery :-)
>
> I don't think it's a packaging screwup at all. What they mean
> is, 'this is the most common battery for 900Mhz portable
> phones'. It's just funny to battery people - if you were a
> consumer with no real understanding of batteries looking for
> the right battery for your phone, you'd find it convenient.
>
> I think sunnbattery.com is suffering from having been posted
> to the EVDL, though. ;-) Their web site takes forever to load now
>
> ObEV: I am attempting to understand, on a chemical and
> physical level, exactly how a Zebra battery works and whether
> it would be possible for me to build my own. (for fun, you know?)
>
> So far I've gotten to the point where I grok that beta
> alumina is a ceramic crystal. I haven't been able to find
> anyone to explain to me how beta alumina is synthesized - if
> any of you out there know, please reply off list.
>
> Anyway, the Zebra (www.betard.co.uk) which I always thought
> was the perfect EV battery if a bit too expensive for us mere
> mortals at $10k a pack, turns out to have a fatal flaw - it
> has 110W heat loss at idle. Which means in a day, the battery
> loses 2.4kwh! A week of sitting around, and your battery pack
> is flat as a pancake. But the 110wh/kg (55wh/lb) number is
> tasty for sure.
>
> I'm thinking of starting yet another mailing list, a evchem
> one, to discuss amatuar experiments in battery chemistries.
>
> S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re:(OT)Hi frequency battery :-)
>
>
> > Thats true, it does say that in the description.
> >
> > What Victor was remarking about was the actual packaging of the
> > product. In big bold letters it says "900 MHZ BATTERY" It's
> obviously
> > a packaging screw-up and one that wouldn't seem funny to
> the general
> > public, most wouldn't even get it. But those that know the
> difference
> > between AC and DC and the basics of how batteries work, might get a
> > chuckle out of it. Yes, if you're on a dial-up, don't bother.
> >
> > In fact, it's now off topic so don't bother replying!!!
> >
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Harris, Lawrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:49 PM
> > >To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > >Subject: RE: Hi frequency battery :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >Come on, it says "AT&T 900 MHz cordless phone batteries on sale"
> > No mention
> > >anywhere I see of a 900MHz battery? Took about 1/2 hour to bring
> > up the
> > >main web page so unless you have something else to do while you
> > wait don't
> > >bother looking.
> > >
> > >Lawrence
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > >Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > >Sent: February 23, 2004 7:24 PM
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Hi frequency battery :-)
> > >
> > >You all have seen 12V battery.
> > >How about 900 MHz battery?
> > >
> > >http://www.sunnbattery.com/
> > >
> > >Oh, well...
> > >
> > >Victor
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello EV List!
I've been lurking for a while and now I'm jumping in.
I'm doing research on EVs at UMass Lowell and I need to become an expert on EV BMS's.
Naturally, this is the best place to get the scoop so I'm asking for any and all
information about:
1) Who makes BMS's. What are the pro's and con's.
2) What is the state of the art? What features would you like to see in a BMS that
are not there now? Would it make a good research project?
Thanks in advance,
Frank Tredeau
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is also the EVBMS list on Yahoo where we have been designing and
building a BMS for LiIon cells.
At 03:53 PM 2/24/2004 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] stated:
I'm doing research on EVs at UMass Lowell and I need to become an expert
on EV BMS's. Naturally, this is the best place to get the scoop so I'm
asking for any and all information about:
1) Who makes BMS's. What are the pro's and con's.
2) What is the state of the art? What features would you like to see in a
BMS that are not there now? Would it make a good research project?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank:
Take a look at the yahoo thread on this subject:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVBMS/
some recent posts there were comparing commercially available systems.
Also
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
which details Lee Hart's balancer. I've built one and like it and am
trying my own respins of the hardware which other people are also
tinkering with.
Yes, its a GREAT research project as battricide is rampant.
We'd all like:
1) cheap(er)
2) extensible to more and different batteries
3) logging. Of individual charge/discharge cycles and of a pack's
life. Which batt is getting the most attention from the BMS?
4) temperatures. i recently found a VERY hot (i.e. loose) connection on
my NiZn pack which a BMS with temp would've alerted me to. i had temp
on my hart Balancer but hadn't moved it to this pack or to the terminals.
5) ability to chat with controllers and chargers. Rich Rudman of
Mananita Micro is approaching this from one end and Otmar of Cafe
Electric is approaching it from the other end.
Show us your research when done!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Behalf Of David Chapman
> So Myles, how does one buy or sell shares of a privately held
> stock?
Unknown. Probably very limited market.
> Was there any notice given to you as a regular stockholder
> so you could make a decision to hold or sell?
None. Zip. No notice.
I found out only online when I saw the stock valuation drop substantially.
Thanks.
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank,
I would reccommend joining the EVBMS group at yahoo.
There are many cross overs from this list and almost
all of the talk concerns BMS.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVBMS/
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello EV List!
>
> I've been lurking for a while and now I'm jumping
> in.
>
> I'm doing research on EVs at UMass Lowell and I need
> to become an expert on EV BMS's. Naturally, this is
> the best place to get the scoop so I'm asking for
> any and all information about:
>
> 1) Who makes BMS's. What are the pro's and con's.
> 2) What is the state of the art? What features
> would you like to see in a BMS that are not there
> now? Would it make a good research project?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Frank Tredeau
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Legally, Evercel can not give advance notice of things like delisting -
remember Martha Stewart? The stock price drop was in response to a newswire
article which showed up on my etrade newswire..
I have private stock in a few companies now. Liquidity is a problem, but if
they ever declare dividends, you're first in line..
Of course, why they would do that is another question..
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Evercel is no more!
> > Behalf Of David Chapman
> > So Myles, how does one buy or sell shares of a privately held
> > stock?
>
> Unknown. Probably very limited market.
>
> > Was there any notice given to you as a regular stockholder
> > so you could make a decision to hold or sell?
>
> None. Zip. No notice.
> I found out only online when I saw the stock valuation drop substantially.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Myles
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 13:19, Myles Twete wrote:
> > Behalf Of David Chapman
> > So Myles, how does one buy or sell shares of a privately held
> > stock?
>
> Unknown. Probably very limited market.
www.pinksheets.com is one way.
Lonnie Borntreger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 13:36, Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
> Of course, why they would do that is another question..
There are many reasons.... one of which is regulatory fees. See:
http://www.buyside.com/archives/2003/0307/html/0307pink.asp
Lonnie Borntreger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sheer:
Evercel filed this 8k with the SEC on January 20th announcing their
intent to delist:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1071119/000100329704000010/evc8k01041.htm
The company is very much around and will save something like $500,000 to
a million by not having to comply with a public listing. I hope that
electricab and some users (like you and me) can get the word out.
Hopefully their investment in Zipcar (posted about here recently) will
pan out and we'll see and hear more about them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
I don't think it's a packaging screwup at all. What they mean is, 'this is
the most common battery for 900Mhz portable phones'. It's just funny to
battery people - if you were a consumer with no real understanding of
batteries looking for the right battery for your phone, you'd find it
convenient.
Yes, my comment was only about bold lettering on the package itself.
Anyway, the Zebra (www.betard.co.uk) which I always thought was the perfect
EV battery if a bit too expensive for us mere mortals at $10k a pack, turns
out to have a fatal flaw - it has 110W heat loss at idle.
You can switch the battery off, so the heater turns off and the
batery "freezes" (sodium solidifies). Turning it on re-heats
it again and you're ready to go, but unfreezing takes some time
(I think a few hours), so makes sense only if you want to
leave the car on the parking lot for 2 weeks or more.
Usually this batery is charged every night so this is not an issue.
Good for fleets, taxis, etc.
Contact Roger Tilley at Beta, he's technical guy and nice
to talk to.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Anyway, the Zebra (www.betard.co.uk) which I always thought was the
perfect
> > EV battery if a bit too expensive for us mere mortals at $10k a pack,
turns
> > out to have a fatal flaw - it has 110W heat loss at idle.
>
> You can switch the battery off, so the heater turns off and the
> batery "freezes" (sodium solidifies). Turning it on re-heats
> it again and you're ready to go, but unfreezing takes some time
> (I think a few hours), so makes sense only if you want to
> leave the car on the parking lot for 2 weeks or more.
Reheating takes 24 hours. This is not a practical thing to do - and you have
to freeze it if you want to leave it parked for a week.
> Usually this batery is charged every night so this is not an issue.
> Good for fleets, taxis, etc.
Yes, I agree - busses and taxis it's a thing of beauty.
I wonder if the heat loss issue could be improved with better insulation?
I'd be willing to have most of the back of my car be insulation around a
pair of Zebras.. probably improve crashworthiness too.
> Contact Roger Tilley at Beta, he's technical guy and nice
> to talk to.
Can you send me contact information for Mr. Tilley off list?
I hope he's no relation to the infamous Tilley of 'look, see, magically
power is coming from nowhere' fame.. ;-)
S.
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Yes, from the info I got, the solid lines represent constant
efficiency points, you can make up your own lines in between,
interpolating these values.
Efficiency of any gear is about the same, 1th or 5th
as long as the same input RPM ant torque transmitted,
it's a teeth mesh and gear oil dependent. On any gear
there is only one loaded teeth in contact, this is
where most of the losses *under load* are generated.
Of course, you get different operation efficiency because
your RPM changes as you switch gears.
If you stay on, say second gear at 4000 rpm
transmitting 40 Nm of torque (so efficiency is 0.95)
and switch on third gear speeding up so you still
run at 4000 rpm and happen to transmit 40 Nm,
the efficiency is still 0.95 (same curve, same point).
Has nothing to do with gears.
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/efficiency_gear1.jpg
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Seth wrote:
Yes, losses are probably a better concept. In an ICE car/truck, they do
get warm, probably less so in an EV. Using efficiency as a metric is a
nice way to compare if you can compare relative losses at a given output
shaft speed and torque with varying input speed and torque. And of
course motor efficiency is the other half of the picture.
Seth
On Feb 21, 2004, at 1:23 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Seth writes:
Those aren't gears. They are iso lines of efficiency (solid)
and power (dashed)
Roger Stockton wrote:
I realise that, however, if this is supposed to be representative
of a multi-speed gearbox, then efficiency would be expected to vary
depending on the gear ratio selected (number of gears in mesh,
reduction ratio, etc.), so it seems somewhat meaningless to have
an efficiency map that doesn't inidicate what gear it is for, nor
how efficiency varies in the other gears (even if that variation
is slight).
It also seems that "efficiency" isn't the right metric over a broad
range of speeds and horsepower levels. For example, efficiency is zero
at no load (high speed, zero torque) and at stall (high torque, no rpm).
Isn't power loss what matters more? Who cares if the efficiency of your
gearbox is 50% at light load, if that only represents 500 watts (1000
watts in, 500 watts out)? For example, my LeCar draws about 10 amps x
132vdc = 1320 watts from the pack with the wheels spinning in the air,
and about 5 amps x 132vdc = 660 watts with the motor alone spinning at
the same speed on the bench. The drive train losses are therefore about
660 watts. I suspect that this loss is roughly constant; i.e. maybe it
doubles if driving at the same speed but at high torque.
But it's clear that transmission losses can't be all that high, because
it doesn't get hot. A manual transmission has no cooling system; just
radiation from its surface, and whatever airflow manages to wander over
it.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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fred whitridge wrote:
5) ability to chat with controllers and chargers. Rich Rudman of
Mananita Micro is approaching this from one end and Otmar of Cafe
Electric is approaching it from the other end.
I approach it from the third end. There are many approaches.
I think at least controllers and chargers must speak the same
language so BMS will understand it without translating.
(that is not relevant if you only want these two components to
talk to each other, and to the BMS, not to the rest of the vehicle).
So far I don't see it with non-OEM hardware, popular among
people converting EVs. New, comm protocols are being worked on,
which, of course, must have its own benefits.
Granted if you get a controller, a charger or any hardware
from such a manufacturer you're stuck with a protocol it speaks.
You can only use their hardware or have to ask for/build a
protocol translator if you want to use other manufacturer's
hardware (existing digital gauges on the dash, etc).
I think it will be beneficial to all if (when?) the issue will
be adressed (read - eventually make money).
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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I'm puzzled about screaming brushes. If it
were my motor, I'd find and fix the cause of the
screaming rather than run it and hope the screaming goes away.
How might replacing the field coils with 8-turn ones and shimming
the field poles to reduce the air gaps make GP run better?
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Screaming Brushes
> OK I did it.
> I got the front motor of the Gone Poastal Van hopped up and running
> again. Thanks to Dave Cloud and B&B motors of Seattle, we found a 8 turn
> set of field coils. Down from the 10 turn whimps that were in the motor.
> 14.40 volts and about 30 amps and it's doing about 2500 rpm free spin.
> And it makes a good scream, and it is getting quiter, and the amps are
> dropping, as the poor brushes are being given a chance to get aquanited
> with the comm again.
> I have fully dissassembled a GE motor swapped the fields, restuffed the
> shoe shims, and reloaded it. So I am totally laid back about getting on
> with messing with air gaps. and field weakening for higher output
> powers. It's a bolt and go type of operation. The air gap un shimmed was
> over 135 thousandths. Shimmed it was still over 0.040. It came with 4
> sets of equal .060 shims, all the same. The shimes are 015 each, 4 per
> stack. I need to find some 005 and 010 stock, and maybe some 0075, for
> the odd spacings.
>
> I gotta funny feeling that the back yard is going to have that
> screaming breaking in motor sound, for many nights to come this season.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
>
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Since I'm happy with my ETEK, I have an AC4-4002 6.75 inch 75v 7HP ADC motor
(Tropica) I'll sell for $150obo. One note: the shaft length is shortened by
at least a couple inches.
Anyone interested, email question(s)/interest offlist.
Thanks.
-Myles Twete ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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We have just completed an update to www.evchargernews.com .
This update includes several new locations, along with several
locations where small-paddle chargers were recently installed,
replacing large-paddle chargers. Detail changes were made to many of
the site pages.
We have improved the presentation on the individual charging station
pages, and added new information on status charging equipment details.
Costco locations now have Costco maps. You can click on the Costco map
to get store hours, store phone numbers, etc. You can also click below
the Costco map to get a Tiger map of the Costco location.
Many locations in Northern California now have Streets and Trips maps,
and we will be adding more of these on a regular basis. You can click
on the Streets and Trips custom map to get a Tiger map of the same
location.
All of the maps have been made larger for easier viewing and printing.
We have improved compatibility with AvantGo. Using AvantGo, you can
carry detailed charging location information in your Palm PDA. (See
www.avantgo.com .)
We still need more Adopt-a-Charger sponsors. See the main page for a
link to more information.
Please review the locations you are familiar with, and let us know if
you have any additions or corrections. Our goal is to make this Web
site as useful to EV drivers as possible. We depend on driver feedback
and site visits to keep the information current.
Please send your updates to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
Thanks for your support.
Tom Dowling
Gil Dawson
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Tom Shay wrote:
>
> I'm puzzled about screaming brushes. If it
> were my motor, I'd find and fix the cause of the
> screaming rather than run it and hope the screaming goes away.
>
> How might replacing the field coils with 8-turn ones and shimming
> the field poles to reduce the air gaps make GP run better?
>
> Tom Shay
>
The Scream is just normal brush sounds most folks won't notice. Also
it's not clear that the brushes that are in the motor have been in this
motor for very long.
Letting them get aquanited with the comm is just good break in.
The GE comm is in VERY nice condition , and it's polished to specs far
greater than stock AvDC surface finishes. It has nice clear square cut
slots, that are not full of carbon and molten copper, this is the active
medium for making the comm noises. I am not concerned, Just the higher
than normal comm speed is making the sound noticable. I do need to get a
tach sensor hooked up so I can give honest RPM readouts. My ear is not
that well calibrated.
First, the field coils that were in the front motor on GP , were
severly over heated. The varnish was baking off and the stench was
enough to make your eyes water. I even noticed while doing the battery
break in. Something was getting dangerously HOT. My ears are a bit
abused, my sniffer is almost too sensitive. It got worse and worse as
the Gp in Vegas Saga progressed. When Rod took it off the trailer it was
loosing power, and was in serious trouble.
Rod and I yanked it, and tore it apart. NO comm damage, Black field
coils that had nice coil burn marks on the backing Nomex. The old coils
were 10 turns 2 in hand, the new(used) were 8 turns 2 in hand, and
larger thicker copper wire(tape). Dropping the turns in the fields drops
the Ampturns in the motor, making a LOT less back EMF, casusing the
motor to spin higher for a given voltage and amp draw. Since the motor
was in serious trouble I did not give it a base line spin with the old
coils. I should have. It now spins at about 2500 rpm off of 14.40 volts
and 30 amps of current. NOTHING gets warm in a 50 deg windstorm. It out
spins my XP brush moblie AvDC 8 incher. It acts like it's now got a
additude problem.
Dennis B. says it's a better selection now for the front of the GP than
a STOCK AvDC 9 incher. At the moment I would tend to agree.
Either Rod owes ME some bucks for new coils and labor, OR I owe Rod for
a Core 9" incher that was handed to me as basic junk, with some good
brush gear on it. I can make it still better.
I have NOT reduced the air gap, well not intentionally. I just
reassembled it the way I found it, and learned a lot doing so. It still
has more air gap than I think I could extract from it.
I now have a set of Feeler gages.... $5 bucks, and I should have gotten
them months ago.
The AvDc pieces I have here are have about 0.052 of a air gap total. Or
0.026 pole face to Arm face. I think the Ge 9 has more than that right
now. I will measure later this evening. Also the AvDc Stocker 8 incher
from DCP(and My) Sparrow has NO steel shim spacers under the pole shoes.
I bet it's a LOT cheaper to have a NC machine to punch the cases just
so, and then just drop the field coil assembly into a fully preped case.
The GE is old core... over bore it, shim it back to perfection.
The motor wars are heating up. I need to keep Ft's bike ahead of Dave
Cloud's rail. All the while helping Both teams.
I have a Bet with Dave Cloud... and only Dave, that he can't do a Sub
10 Second Run in a years time. I bet a Spanking new PFC30 that he can't
do it. I get 2 AvDC 8 inchers if he comes up short. Dave has not
accepted this bet yet. Dennis B. says it can be done, I say it can be
done. I say it can't, with Dave's current motor attack methods. Which is
4 hyper Prestolites, and 4 chain drives, and battery series paraleling,
and motor field paraleling and weakinging.
I say it's gotta be a single motor and chain drive done right and
simple. Not a mess of happy go lucky tiny motors.
I am trying to keep him from taking 2 seasons, because he could fail,
back track and then use the path that I recomend to take my bet in two
seasons. But this is not likley in one season.
This is to get Dave out of the Dark ages(late 90s) of EV go fast ideas,
that more motors, and more battery, is always faster, that more amps,
more contactors, and more Crap is faster than simple well tested, well
machined well thought out, single motor. More of the right stuff is
faster, and the right stuff is inside the motor case.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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damon henry wrote:
> You can get 25 amp full wave bridge rectifiers from your local
> radio shack for about $3. They will get hot and will need to be
> put on a heat sink.
A variac charger has no current limiting (except the fuse or circuit
breaker!) I would strongly recommend using a rectifier a LOT bigger than
the worst-case current you every expect to draw; otherwise, the day will
come when you crank that knob up too high, and *bang*!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Shawn Rutledge wrote:
> It looks like a really nice example of good aerodynamics. I begin
> to think about building a tadpole 3-wheeler with that shape...
>
> What kind of donor car could you find at a junkyard which is RWD and
> has a simple, non-power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering setup and
> fairly small light control arms, wheels etc.?
If you're building a car for yourself, it doesn't really matter much if
it has 3 wheels for 4. The requirements for licensing a homebuilt
4-wheeler aren't that much more difficult.
So I was wondering... if I wanted to build a Tango-style narrow car (to
get the drastically reduced frontal area), what car would I use as a
donor vehicle? One that could be easily narrowed?
I talked to Rick Woodbury, and he has done a lot of junkyard scrounging
looking for exactly the same thing. So far, nothing comes across as the
'best' choice.
But, I happen to have a 1965 Chevy Corvair, and am quite familiar with
them. Their suspension happens to look like would lend itself to having
a couple feet removed from the center. The front suspension is unequal
length A arms, which Chevy apparently borrowed from their front-engined
cars of the time, because there is a V8-shaped gas tank right between
the front suspension. It looks like the A arms could be moved in almost
2 feet.
The rear is also fully independent; not swing axles like the 1960-64,
but a trailing arm on each side, plus upper and lower links connecting
it to the differential. If I used the trick Renault did on the R5/LeCar
and mounted one wheel a few inches in front of the other, the upper and
lower links could be overlapped several feet. Each drive shaft could
then go to its own gear reduction and motor, instead of one motor and
differential.
I don't know if it would actually work, of course. Also, there may be
some other car that would better lend itself to this sort of narrowing.
For instance, anything with a solid rear axle could theoretically be
narrowed, if you could find or make shorter axles.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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