EV Digest 3374
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The Right Stuff
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) OT-Junque-Yard Tales
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Was: polypropylene welder Co-op, Now: Technique
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Pie in the sky
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Evercell MB80 reaches 196 cycles
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Pie in the sky
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Pie in the sky
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Pie in the sky
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Pie in the sky
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Pie in the sky
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) 1957 Henney Killowatt on eBay
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
by Robert Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Hyper e-'Vair (was: RE: If the Tango was closer to the ground.)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EVLN(EDTA EV/hybrid/fcv Conf&Expo 9/21-23/04 Orlando, FL $$$) Going?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: AC4-4002 6.75 inch 75v 7HP ADC motor (Tropica)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: 1957 Henney Killowatt on eBay
by "Mason Convey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Cheap Magne Chargers on ebay
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Cheap Magne Chargers on ebay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: 1957 Henney Killowatt on eBay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Screaming Brushes
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Cheap Magne Chargers on ebay an'....Amphicars?
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Cheap magne chargers on ebay
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Pie in the sky
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Hyper e-'Vair (was: RE: If the Tango was closer to the ground.)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,it must be me who is in the dark ages,it takes me at least 20 hours to
put a ge field set in its case Properly,of course it could be done in less than
an hour,but not on my bench...The ge back in gp?why not a pusher trailer and
have 6 wheel drive,have it carry enough batts.for 360 can you see it now six
smokeing slicks. D.B.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I and a couple friends braved the trip to south Phx this last weekend
and while fighting off the vicious animals (pizza and coke craving horses)
came back with another load of Fine-Junque that I thought I should mention.
Besides all kinds of inductors and selenium rectifiers ranging from large
tootsie roll size to one that is like 2' x 1.5' , a crate of variable
resistors (Ohmite), Dale resistors and large current DC switches and AC
contactors I think I got a couple nice entries for the "My Variac is bigger
than your Variac" competetion. These are 3 phase 200-460 V, chain and lead
screw driven and stand about 2 1/2' high. Back says they weigh well over 100
lbs ea. One has the top phase burned out and seemed like a candidate for
making into a 240 V single phase variac for a big charger. Especially with
the large fan cooled rectifier banks that I picked up a month or so ago. Oh
and I did pick up a bunch of smaller open frame variacs in various configs
from 120 V .7 Kva to 240 3 phase. I even found one that is 115 V and 400 hz.
Probably only good for an airplane guy there tho. Also some big high current
panel connectors and various nice insulating block materials. And a couple
of interesting capacitors, one is a mica high frequency cap and the other is
a 28 Mfd 60 cps 440V "giant spam can" from Electrical Utilities Co. Gosh I
wish Lee Hart or one of the other EEs on the list lived closer to Phx, could
probably dream up tons of new uses for this stuff. Anyway, if anyone has an
interest in this new load of Junque, drop me a line OL. Regards, David
Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you use a variac with a bad boy charger, then you have a VARIAC charger.
NOT a bad boy charger.
The only thing limiting the current in a bad boy charger is the resistance
of the wiring or the size of the circuit breaker.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:12 AM
Subject: For those who want bad-boy chargers..
> mpja.com has some 2KVA Variacs on sale for $90.
> http://www.mpja.com/allpictspl.asp?dept=287&product=15311+MG
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What kind of donor car could you find at a junkyard which is RWD and
> has a simple, non-power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering setup and
> fairly small light control arms, wheels etc.?
>
Well, the old air-cooled VWs come to mind. The whole front end comes
off in one piece. However narrowing it might be a problem.
I think a lot of kit cars use the Mustang II front ends, I think that
comes off in two pieces (right/left)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make CERTAIN you empty any water in your compressor.
Otherwise you'll have cruddy seams, if you get ANY, I
guarantee! Blow between 3 and 5 PSI. If it blows
"spider web" type fibers, pressure is too high.
Please let me know how it works without the speed
tip. I used 3/16, and wow, was it wonderful.
--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I looked for a rental plastic welder in the
> Portland, Oregon area a
> couple of weeks ago. I found one shop that would
> rent one for either
> $6 or $10 per day, depending on the model. The
> sticking point was
> that they wanted a refundable $900 deposit on a
> charge card because
> I didn't have an account with them. This isn't bad
> overall as long
> as the deposit and refund occur on the same billing
> cycle...
>
> I ended up buying one of the $30 plastic welders
> from Harbor Freight.
> This unit requires an external external air
> compressor and doesn't
> come with a "speed tip", but (from what I've read)
> is otherwise a
> 'pretty good' setup. I hope to get some practice
> this weekend, and
> then start building my battery boxes (with
> polyethylene).
>
> Ralph
>
>
> Fortunat Mueller writes:
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I think i would be interested in this. I have been
> > looking (unsuccesfully) for somewhere local to
> rent a
> > plastic welder.
> > I don't know how much you plan to buy it for, but
> i
> > would think you could get enough people together
> that
> > it is worth it. how heavy is it ? how much trouble
> to
> > ship ?
> >
> > ~fortunat
> >
> > --- Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > > I borrowed a poly welder from someone who
> wishes
> > > to get rid of it. He wants about 140 for it.
> I'm
> > > thinking SOMEONE on the discussion list should
> have
> > > one for rental. You pay $140 up front, and get
> all
> > > but $25 back after the welder comes back in good
> > > condition.
> > > What do you think? Is there an interest out
> > > there?
> > > What have you all done? I don't think this is
> > > readily
> > > available at the nearest United Rentals, or
> > > somesuch.
> > > Peace, out.
> > >
> > > =====
> > > '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> > > (in progress)! ____
> > > __/__|__\ __
> > > =D-------/ - - \
> > > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> came
> > > out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any
> gas
> > > for your kids?
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
> want.
> > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
> want.
> > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> >
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 07:28:18PM -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
> If you're building a car for yourself, it doesn't really matter much if
> it has 3 wheels for 4. The requirements for licensing a homebuilt
> 4-wheeler aren't that much more difficult.
I'm thinking about efficiency more than licensing. I was thinking of using
two ETek motors and two belts or chains, one on each side of the single
rear wheel. But then changing the tire would be a lot of work.
>
> So I was wondering... if I wanted to build a Tango-style narrow car (to
> get the drastically reduced frontal area), what car would I use as a
> donor vehicle? One that could be easily narrowed?
Yeah exactly.
> But, I happen to have a 1965 Chevy Corvair, and am quite familiar with
But it would be a shame use a classic car like that just for parts.
I happen to have a 76 or so Datsun pickup and need to have a closer look at
the front end; but I figured it's a truck, and some economy cars are bound
to have something more suitable (lighter weight, smaller etc.) But so many
of them are FWD.
--
_______ Shawn T. Rutledge
(_ | |_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://ecloud.org:8080
__) | | \________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 09:39:37PM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I think a lot of kit cars use the Mustang II front ends, I think that
> comes off in two pieces (right/left)
That's good to know.
--
_______ Shawn T. Rutledge
(_ | |_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://ecloud.org:8080
__) | | \________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: If the Tango was closer to the ground.
>
> > What kind of donor car could you find at a junkyard which is RWD and
> > has a simple, non-power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering setup and
> > fairly small light control arms, wheels etc.?
> >
> Well, the old air-cooled VWs come to mind. The whole front end comes
> off in one piece. However narrowing it might be a problem.
Actually you can order a VW frontend from one of the dune buggy suppliers in
many different widths. And they are suprisingly inexpensive, even for the
custom aluminum ones. Probably could get a custom width pretty cheap too.
David Chapman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<So I was wondering... if I wanted to build a Tango-style narrow car (to
get the drastically reduced frontal area), what car would I use as a
donor vehicle? One that could be easily narrowed?
I talked to Rick Woodbury, and he has done a lot of junkyard scrounging
looking for exactly the same thing. So far, nothing comes across as the
'best' choice.>>
That's more food for thought. I'm sure "your pal meat" knows volumes more about
this than I, but it seems mostly a matter of building the right sized frame and
finding the right suspension parts to hang off the 4 corners.
That's an obvious over-simplification, but rear drives get "narrowed" all the
time, and most RWD cars have the front end as 2 subsystems that work, beyond
steering and antiroll bar, independent of each other.
So, you take off the suspension and narrow-down an existing frame/body, then
remove similar width from the original steering and rear drive. More than my
abilities, but maybe easier than doing the same to a FWD car or making a custom
frame/body...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you could pick a motor for an EV what would it
be(brushed DC, AC, BLDC)and what would you want from a
controller for it. Thanks
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The chart of capacity verses cycle number is at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/mb80%20cycle%20196.gif. Capacity is just over
60 AHr at 25 amps.
The battery is being removed from the machine so I can break in another
battery.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<If you could pick a motor for an EV what would it be(brushed DC, AC, BLDC)and
what would you want from a controller for it. Thanks Gadget>>
Assuming "pie in the sky" equals "money is no object", I'd vote for AC, but it
has to put out >150Kw and maybe have "everything in one box", along with
charger and BMS. Sounds a bit like ACP would be able to scratch that itch, if
you had the $$$.
If money + currently-available products are to be considered, I'd vote for a Z1K
and Netgain 8" or similar "optimized" series DC as best bang for the buck, also
allowing at least 150Kw output.
Too bad we don't have high-volt SepEx motors and controllers, 'cuz that would be
my personal cost-effective choice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:59 PM
Subject: Pie in the sky
> If you could pick a motor for an EV what would it
> be(brushed DC, AC, BLDC)and what would you want from a
> controller for it. Thanks
> Gadget
Well you didn't ask me in particular but since im up with insomnia I will
give you my opinion. First of all I would say that it depends on what type
of batteries you intend to run and what the vehicles mission statement was.
That said, I think the statement below would be my best stab at it from a
"my universal truth" standpoint. This is just my opinion however.
If money was no object and one could buy the best newest lightest batteries
and bms so as to run a high voltage, high energy density pack I would
definately go with one of Victors AC drives and controller/DC-DC packages
for just about any normal onroad vehicle.
Now talking about specific cases, such as my G-van for instance I really
cannot justify the money to run Li-Ions and their attendant BMSs. It has a
large Sep-Ex Nelco trolly motor and controller by Chloride Electronetworks.
AGMs have turned out to be less than optimum for these and surprisingly
enough a few have been converted with some success to flooded gk batteries.
The Holy Grail for me is large Ni-Cad modules, probably Safts. I have the
room and the weight carrying capacity and I need the range. With 750 B-600s
Bill M is reporting 75+ miles with his. But too much trouble with the
interconnects for me. I think if I could get a good used set of large Ni-cad
modules I could get the van to do pretty close to 100 miles @ 60 mph without
too much difficulty. And I would still have 3/4 ton usable payload and the
ability to tow a trailer, albeit at a sacrifice of mileage. This would give
me more than enough range to make the van useful with a cushion that would
ensure comfort and convenience of operation. HTH, Regards David Chapman.
PS, I forgot the part about controller needs. Hmm, my game plan has always
been to ingratiate myself to Otmar enough so as to eventially talk him into
building me one for the G-van for a price I can hopefully afford. Thats why
I let him win all those AC and heater parts at the auction for instance,
LOL. Seriously tho he pretty much owns the big DC controller market (for
onroad EVs). DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
but what about brushless DC? seems like it could give
you the torque of the dc motor with the speed of the
AC plus regen capabilities.
Gadget
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <<If you could pick a motor for an EV what would it
> be(brushed DC, AC, BLDC)and
> what would you want from a controller for it. Thanks
> Gadget>>
>
> Assuming "pie in the sky" equals "money is no
> object", I'd vote for AC, but it
> has to put out >150Kw and maybe have "everything in
> one box", along with
> charger and BMS. Sounds a bit like ACP would be able
> to scratch that itch, if
> you had the $$$.
>
> If money + currently-available products are to be
> considered, I'd vote for a Z1K
> and Netgain 8" or similar "optimized" series DC as
> best bang for the buck, also
> allowing at least 150Kw output.
>
> Too bad we don't have high-volt SepEx motors and
> controllers, 'cuz that would be
> my personal cost-effective choice.
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:12 AM -0800 2-25-04, Reverend Gadget wrote:
but what about brushless DC? seems like it could give
you the torque of the dc motor with the speed of the
AC plus regen capabilities.
The major drawback with BLDC, as I see it, is that the field is fixed
and therefore you always have fixed eddy current losses and not
nearly as high torque as a series motor.
If the system is low power the losses are not such a big deal, but a
100 peak HP system with a single ratio transmission coasting at
freeway speeds would lose about 1500 watts just to eddy current
losses.
The reason I like AC induction is that the field can be changed to
meet the need. It's true that you need to provide the energy for the
field, and that is a loss, but at the high peak and low cruise power
that is typical of a EV, I think it makes sense.
I haven't run the numbers. I'm making my judgement from feeling and a
few data points. What do others think?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A- AC induction definitely does regen
B- Generally you can spin AC induction faster because you can weaken
the field. Which is very difficult to do in a BLDC. The rotor is also a
rugged cast in place piece of aluminum and steel unless you have a
built up copper rotor. But at 93% motor efficiency with aluminum, do
you want a copper rotor?
C- Oat is right about the viscous damping losses, they are an issue at
high shaft speed.
D- Per amp, AC motors can make as much torque as DC. Madman has one has
one that will make ~180 ft-lbs on 400A. And that's 400A peak, not RMS.
Factory redline is 8000RPM. He just needs to get a weeny little 400A
inverter on it. Or a 600A, or an 800A...
E- if you tow it and you leave it in too low a gear, all you have to
worry about is exploding the rotor. Not the weak commutator, or
destroying the controller when a BLDC starts to regen uncontrollably
thru the controller when the back EMF in the motor exceeds that of the
battery. And induction machines for vehicles generally have high
redlines. 12-13,000 rpm for little motors, 8000 for some of the larger.
F-If you can make 300V and a couple hunderd amps out of your battery
for 30 second pulses (without sagging to 180V!), then you should worry
about whether or not you have a powerful enough AC system
G-Excessive currents and heat can demagnetize the magnets used in BLDC.
Not common but it is a failure mode. AC motors can burn the insulation
out eventually, just like any motor. But it is probably a bit more
tolerant to abuse.
H-generally, BLDC is a little lighter than AC induction.
2 cents worth
Seth
On Feb 25, 2004, at 4:41 AM, Otmar wrote:
At 1:12 AM -0800 2-25-04, Reverend Gadget wrote:
but what about brushless DC? seems like it could give
you the torque of the dc motor with the speed of the
AC plus regen capabilities.
The major drawback with BLDC, as I see it, is that the field is fixed
and therefore you always have fixed eddy current losses and not nearly
as high torque as a series motor.
If the system is low power the losses are not such a big deal, but a
100 peak HP system with a single ratio transmission coasting at
freeway speeds would lose about 1500 watts just to eddy current
losses.
The reason I like AC induction is that the field can be changed to
meet the need. It's true that you need to provide the energy for the
field, and that is a loss, but at the high peak and low cruise power
that is typical of a EV, I think it makes sense.
I haven't run the numbers. I'm making my judgement from feeling and a
few data points. What do others think?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1957 HENNEY KILLOWATT ELECTRIC VEHICLE WITH TRAILER
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2462858705
(standard disclaimer: I know nothing about this vehicle or the seller.
From the pictures it has 4 wheels and a bunch of batteries :-)
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you don't want to cut out an existing Mustang II front end and then cut
it apart to narrow it, all of the bits and pieces are available new.
The street rod industry uses this front end under most modernized pre 1940
street rods and all of the brackets and suspension parts are available.
You can get stock ford type pieces or custom billet pieces or anything in
between.
It is also used for a lot kit cars.
The brackets are design to be welded to a square tube frame, and it would
be very easy to make the frame and the resulting car any width you desire.
Race car front ends are also available to weld to your custom frame.
Rear wheel drive rear ends are very easy to narrow if you can weld. And
there are lots of places that will narrow the axles for you. I just had
Moser narrow a set of axles for a Chrysler 8 3/4 rear and with shipping it
was under 400.00.
Or check with a automotive recycler that deals in performance parts, lots
of narrowed rears around from old race cars or cars that were never built.
There are lots of them on the WEB, Dale Wilch Sales is a good place to start.
I have 2 9 inch Ford rears in the garage that are less than 3 feet hub to hub.
Bob
At 11:07 PM 2/24/04 -0700, you wrote:
On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 09:39:37PM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I think a lot of kit cars use the Mustang II front ends, I think that
> comes off in two pieces (right/left)
That's good to know.
--
_______ Shawn T. Rutledge
(_ | |_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://ecloud.org:8080
__) | | \________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> But, I happen to have a 1965 Chevy Corvair, and am quite
> familiar with them. Their suspension happens to look like
> would lend itself to having a couple feet removed from the
> center. The front suspension is unequal length A arms, which
> Chevy apparently borrowed from their front-engined cars of
> the time, because there is a V8-shaped gas tank right between
> the front suspension. It looks like the A arms could be moved
> in almost 2 feet.
Hi Lee,
First, about the narrow car concept. I like it, but it has its
limitations. The only way it works is to have the weight extremely low.
The only way you're likely to do that properly is by designing from
scratch. I think it would be far less work to start fresh than try to
do a drastic modification of an existing design.
Now about that Corvair. Long ago a company called Crown(?) sold a kit
to install a small block V8 where the back seat used to live in the '65
and later Corvairs. They called it the Corv-8. I got a ride in their
demo car and was absolutely blown away. It was the mid-engined Corvette
that Chevrolet never made.
This conversion was practical because the '66 transaxle ('65s had to
upgrade to a '66) actually had the same gearbox internals as a Camaro.
The gearbox was bolted to a differential/bellhousing casting in the
back. The gearbox output shaft was also the pinion gear of the
differential. Power from the original rear engine went through a long
shaft that extended from the clutch at the rear, through the
differential and gearbox to a pair of transfer gears at the front. The
long shaft would never handle the torque of a V8, but if you put the V8
in *front* of the gearbox (where the back seat used to be), that problem
went away.
So. How about swapping your Corvair transaxle for a '66, removing the
back seat and putting a Warp 11 or twin 8s back there? You'd have a
drivetrain that can take the abuse, there's lots of room around the
motor(s) for some of your batteries to keep the polar moment low, and
you'd even have a very cavernous trunk where the engine used to be!
This could be a very nice and very fast EV.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob and All,
--- bobrice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> SNIP! A bit!
> Attached is a press release with details about The
> Electric
> Drive
> Transportation Association Conference & Exposition
> 2004:
> Mobilizing
> the Market, which will be held from September 21-23,
> 2004 in
> Orlando, Florida. The conference will provide a
> comprehensive
> and
> hands-on forum for information exchange, business
> venture
> development, and market forecasting and sales - and
> will feature
>
> electric drive industry experts, policy leaders and
> academia
> from
> around the globe. Other key elements include an
> exposition
> showcasing new and emerging battery, hybrid and fuel
> cell
> products,
> and a vehicle "Ride'n'Drive" of electric drive cars,
> bikes,
> scooters and off-road vehicles.
>
>
> Bla! Bla! Bla! ........ in Steve Clunn an' Jerry
> Dycus country?
>
> Sounds like fun! Anybody thinking of going? I
> know it's a bit early, to
> ask, but do you think it would be worth it for BEV
> guyz to show up? Like the
> EVS things we have gone to before, when they are on
> OUR continent.
I'll be there probably with a new mahogany ply
e-woody I may sell plans for. That should grab the
media's attention!!! I plan on parking right in front
of the conference.
There are several other interesting EV's here
that probably will show up if finished. Well see.
I was just starting Ev's again when the last
one came and didn't hear about it until too late, but
will not miss this one.
There is a new website, chat Fla EAA chapter on
yahoogroups starting today for any other Fla Ev'ers
who may want to join.
As Fla is almost 1000 miles from Key West to
Mobile bay, it's hard to organize.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
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--- Begin Message ---
Myles Twete wrote:
> Since I'm happy with my ETEK, I have an AC4-4002 6.75 inch
> 75v 7HP ADC motor
> (Tropica) I'll sell for $150obo. One note: the shaft length
> is shortened by at least a couple inches.
>
> Anyone interested, email question(s)/interest offlist.
This is intriguing. I've heard a bit about these motors, but would like
more details. I think they are the same mechanical package as the ADC
A89 series? The A89 supposedly is suitable for 36-72 V operation
(nameplate says 36 V). Is the Tropica version wound for a higher
voltage?
I was thinking about mounting a motor like this to the transmission of
an older BMW motorcycle and running it at 96 to maybe 120 V. Too much?
Just how long is the shaft? Enough to fit a coupling for a car-like
flywheel?
Chris
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I would strongly recommend using a rectifier a LOT bigger than
the worst-case current you every expect to draw; otherwise, the day
will
come when you crank that knob up too high, and *bang*!
boy does that sound familiar... :-)
seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
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--- Begin Message ---
It can also be viewed here, with more contact information and pictures. The
ad has been up since July of last year...
http://www.phoenixeaa.com/classifieds/030716/
> 1957 HENNEY KILLOWATT ELECTRIC VEHICLE WITH TRAILER
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2462858705
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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On 25 Feb 2004 at 9:08, Jack Knopf wrote:
> worlds first electric
> Amphicar on the way.
>
Huh? Did I miss something? Please tell us more!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Open source software has fewer bugs because it admits the possibility
of bugs.
-- Napoleon
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--- Begin Message ---
Anybody else notice that the seller is using the text from Darryl McMahon's
EV history web page to describe the Henny?
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evhisth.htm#HenneyKilowatt
Just FWIW.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
When the president does it, that means it is not illegal.
-- Richard Nixon
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Screaming Brushes
> I'm puzzled about screaming brushes. If it
> were my motor, I'd find and fix the cause of the
> screaming rather than run it and hope the screaming goes away.
> Hi All;
Screaming brushes is a rather natural thing til they seat. Locomotives,
MU cars and trolleys do same, at first, and you can hear them over all the
other train noises, when they come out of the shop. I remember changing
brushes on a RR car and hearing them as we ran it out of the shop. I was
very concerned, but one of the Olde Timers sed that it is normal, you'll get
used to it!
But with a car, ya can seat them with a comm stone, a sandstone, I think
, soft but gritty stick to run on the comm, til the brushes grind in to the
Comm's radius, then make damn sure ya blow the used grit and carbon out!!
before going to the races! Or just motoring about town. My brushes are doing
fine in 4 years and over 60k on the miles.
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Cheap Magne Chargers on ebay
> On 25 Feb 2004 at 9:08, Jack Knopf wrote:
>
> > worlds first electric
> > Amphicar on the way.
> >
>
> Huh? Did I miss something? Please tell us more!
>
This should be interesting! I remember Amphicar as an amphivious car with
damn little freeboard for bad weather or . Horrors! Choppy seas Maybe a word
play on AMP- hicar?<g>!like Ohmsmobile or Volts Wagen?
Seaya!
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
I was asking some questions about the Magne Chargers I bought on ebay. It
looks as if the first part of my message was left out, I will try again. I
see there is a port on the Chargers to hook up a pc, can they be programed
for voltage, current limit, ect.? Where do I find a manual with prints? The
man also had a charge port with the chargers. Can I get DC right out of this
charge port without it talking to the charge controller on the vehicle? I
will figure all this out eventually but with your help it might come a
little quicker.
Jack, Electric Amphicar( Light ,rear motor, amphibious, 4 speed vehicle)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
>
> A- AC induction definitely does regen
>
> B- Generally you can spin AC induction faster because you can weaken
> the field. Which is very difficult to do in a BLDC. The rotor is also a
> rugged cast in place piece of aluminum and steel unless you have a
> built up copper rotor. But at 93% motor efficiency with aluminum, do
> you want a copper rotor?
>
> C- Oat is right about the viscous damping losses, they are an issue at
> high shaft speed.
>
> D- Per amp, AC motors can make as much torque as DC. Madman has one has
> one that will make ~180 ft-lbs on 400A. And that's 400A peak, not RMS.
> Factory redline is 8000RPM. He just needs to get a weeny little 400A
> inverter on it. Or a 600A, or an 800A...
>
> E- if you tow it and you leave it in too low a gear, all you have to
> worry about is exploding the rotor. Not the weak commutator, or
> destroying the controller when a BLDC starts to regen uncontrollably
> thru the controller when the back EMF in the motor exceeds that of the
> battery. And induction machines for vehicles generally have high
> redlines. 12-13,000 rpm for little motors, 8000 for some of the larger.
>
> F-If you can make 300V and a couple hunderd amps out of your battery
> for 30 second pulses (without sagging to 180V!), then you should worry
> about whether or not you have a powerful enough AC system
>
> G-Excessive currents and heat can demagnetize the magnets used in BLDC.
> Not common but it is a failure mode. AC motors can burn the insulation
> out eventually, just like any motor. But it is probably a bit more
> tolerant to abuse.
>
> H-generally, BLDC is a little lighter than AC induction.
>
> 2 cents worth
>
> Seth
>
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 4:41 AM, Otmar wrote:
>
> > At 1:12 AM -0800 2-25-04, Reverend Gadget wrote:
> >> but what about brushless DC? seems like it could give
> >> you the torque of the dc motor with the speed of the
> >> AC plus regen capabilities.
> >
> > The major drawback with BLDC, as I see it, is that the field is fixed
> > and therefore you always have fixed eddy current losses and not nearly
> > as high torque as a series motor.
> >
> > If the system is low power the losses are not such a big deal, but a
> > 100 peak HP system with a single ratio transmission coasting at
> > freeway speeds would lose about 1500 watts just to eddy current
> > losses.
> >
> > The reason I like AC induction is that the field can be changed to
> > meet the need. It's true that you need to provide the energy for the
> > field, and that is a loss, but at the high peak and low cruise power
> > that is typical of a EV, I think it makes sense.
> >
> > I haven't run the numbers. I'm making my judgement from feeling and a
> > few data points. What do others think?
> >
> > --
> > -Otmar-
> >
> > http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> > http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
> >
Yea I was floored by the Amps to Ftlbs that my AC induction motor is
rated at. If Ot's numbers from the G-tests are right... And I think they
are close, then the AC motor can make 3 times the shaft torque per amp
that a 8 incher and 2000 amps can make. AND the motor can do 8000 rpm at
full load. Or... a 275 amp per phase into a AC motor makes as much
torque as 2000 amps into a AvDC 8 incher.
Lets keep in mind that you could probably drop a 8 inch case through
the stator of the 78 Kw AC motor. The AC 55 is simply a BIGGER machine.
Yea I vote for a AC drive that is programmable like Ot's Hair ball. Has
all the data points prgrammable so we can swap motors to our heart's
content. Also there are a few items that could make a genaric AC drive
stage even more sweet, Like slecting AC induction, BLDC or 3 channels of
DC current, All from the same device.
I think the Seiman's motors are the best for size and wieght, and RPM.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
Chris Tromley wrote:
> First, about the narrow car concept. I like it, but it has its
> limitations. The only way it works is to have the weight extremely
> low.
Which is fine; I'm thinking about an EV.
> The only way you're likely to do that properly is by designing from
> scratch. I think it would be far less work to start fresh than try
> to do a drastic modification of an existing design.
Very likely true. I was just looking for sources of donor parts for
suspension, steering etc. rather than fabricate everything from scratch,
like the Tango does.
> Long ago a company called Crown(?) sold a kit to install a small
> block V8 where the back seat used to live in the '65 and later
> Corvairs. They called it the Corv-8.
Yep; my brother has one!
> This conversion was practical...
Aside from losing the back seat, trunk, and most of the front seat track
adjustment range...
> because the '66 transaxle ('65s had to upgrade to a '66) actually
> had the same gearbox internals as a Camaro...
Yes; it was the same transmission as the V8 Chevies. Putting a V8 in the
back seat actually made the drive train arrangement the same as the
Corvette.
> So. How about swapping your Corvair transaxle for a '66, removing the
> back seat and putting a Warp 11 or twin 8s back there? You'd have a
> drivetrain that can take the abuse, there's lots of room around the
> motor(s) for some of your batteries to keep the polar moment low, and
> you'd even have a very cavernous trunk where the engine used to be!
> This could be a very nice and very fast EV.
Yes; I keep thinking of things like this! The drive train, brakes and
suspension of the later Corvairs was borrowed from big Chevies, so it
can carry lots of weight. There is a lot of room in the trunk and engine
compartments. There are still lots of parts suppliers, so parts are
relatively cheap and available.
The other thing is that GM built some Corvair EVs; the "Electrovair"
back in 1965-66. Amazingly, the Electrovair was the same size, same
weight, same top speed, same range, and same 100kw 3-phase AC induction
motor and inverter concept as the EV-1 -- 30 years earlier! So, I keep
thinking about building a clone of the Electrovair!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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