EV Digest 3379
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: The EMW goes for a test ride
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) OT Re: Playing with a Basic Stamp
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Maiden Voyage!
by "amadare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
by "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AC induction vs BLDC
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: The EMW goes for a test ride
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fw: NRT2 Nokian
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Regulators and stray batteries
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT Re: Playing with a Basic Stamp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Maiden Voyage!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Pep Boys To Become A Major Player in the Personal Vehicle market?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Screaming Brushes (correction)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT Re: Playing with a Basic Stamp
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: The EMW goes for a test ride
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: The EMW goes for a test ride
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: The Hawker keeps getting dead-er. Need a real charger
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Boiling out the electrolyte
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Maiden Voyage!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
> Took the bike out for a test drive tonight, just
> around the parking lot, as I have'nt connected the
> lights yet. It feels like it has more acceleration
> taking off in fourth than it did before with the ICE.
> I will post some pictures to my website tonight. I've
> built other ev's before for off road use but never for
> performance. That big ole' grin is contagious.
I'm very interested in this project. The shaft drive BMWs look good as
conversion candidates because they have a separate sealed transmission.
I personally think a transmission is necessary on a "daily rider" EM
(Electric Motorcycle) because direct drive makes for poor bottom-end
grunt with a single motor. More importantly, the low numerical gearing
necessary for direct drive keeps you in the poor motor efficiency range
at low speeds. Range is even harder to get on an EM than an electric
car or truck, so efficiency is Very Important.
Your adaptation of an ADC A89 to the BMW gearbox is very slick. I can
see that it should be possible to have a completed EM that has a very
integrated, non-rolling-science-project look to it. Perhaps you could
use the fuel tank to make a mold for a fiberglass cover that would blend
into covers/fairings over the batteries?
While tossing around ideas for a similar project, I figured the older
BMWs would make a better conversion donor. Not because they're better
bikes, I much prefer the K series that you've chosen. But the ICE
versions of the K75 are about 100 lbs. heavier that the old /5, /6 and
/7 series air-cooled boxers. Its hard to imagine the water-cooled K75
engine is that much heavier. Did you weigh your K75 with all the ICE
bits removed? That is perhaps the most critical number for anyone
considering a particular EM conversion. If you have that info, please
post!
Chris
P.S. I'm a little fuzzy on this, but I read awhile back that some K
series BMWs had a reliability issue with their shaft drive. Something
about a joint or coupling not having enough lube, or being hard enough
to get to that recommended lubrication wasn't being done. I would check
with a BMW guru and find out what's up so you can take care of this
before the bike is buttoned up for good.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
...While in Radio Shack the other day I saw they had a "What are
Microcontrollers" education kit for $79.99.
> ... This kit is a great education tool that many of the
hobbiest on this list might be interested in.... I showed it
to my kids and they were all intrigued and I'm looking forward to going
through some of the projects with them to introduce them not only to
microcontrollers, but basic electrical theory.
Definately take a look at those little Leggo Robotics kits.
Very k00l. I have only just seen them, but I know that
most University programs now teach a course in robotics
and/or controls using these little Leggo robots.
If I didn't already have too many hobbies, I'd get one
for myself to play with.
A sharp high-school kid can really build functioning,
innovative robots fairly easily with this thing.
It actually teaches you how to do embedded programming.
Not all that different from the big systems I've worked on,
but cheap and easy enough for kids to play with.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, all
I'm still searching for a donor car ( I have my heart set on a Toyota Echo)
so I can start work now that it's warming up here ( Rochester NY). The
problem is finding one with manual steering. A few of these were sold with
manual steering ( according to the local dealer) but mostly with power
steering in this country. I've found a couple of likely cars, so far,
except none with manual steering.
I could buy a power steering car, and just drain the fluid and use it as a
manual. The ratio is a bit faster than the manual rack ( 19.5 : 1 for the
manual rack, 17.1:1 for the power-assisted) , so effort would be higher, but
I'm not too worried about that - it will still be a fairly light car, and
the tires will be pumped pretty hard - probably enough to make up for the
faster ratio. My plan (for now) is to keep the front axle loading about the
same as the original, and add weight ( and stiffer springs) to the rear.
How have all of you solved this problem? Is using power steering as manual
commonly done with ev's?
Are there any safety concerns about using a power steering rack as a manual
- as far as reliability of the rack being used differently than it was
designed for? Will steering be harder because of the extra hardware in the
rack ( even if I drain the fluid)?
I'm eager to get my hands on a car and get to work, so I'm about ready to
give up looking for a manual steering car, but I don't want to make a
mistake I'll regret later.
Thanks
Phil Marino
_________________________________________________________________
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The BMV was open until 6:30p last night, so it was decided that would be
the night to go title and plate the Comuta-Car I had recently bought. I
have been working on little things here and there that were just not
quite right and it still has a couple of issues, but my wife was behind
me in the gasser to compensate for them (like the brake lights don't
always come on). First thing I noticed was the speedometer isn't
accurate. I was disappointed at first, as the speedo was only reading
about 30mph. I radioed back to my wife that we weren't going that fast
and she shot back, "uh we're going 42." Ok, so add one more thing to
the list of fixer-uppers. It is a 48v system with the original
contactor speed control setup. The BMV was about 4+ miles away from the
house with the two of us talking back and forth most of the way.
Sitting at a stoplight about half way there, I hear this "Hey, hey."
It's coming from the man next to me in a nice sized pickup truck. He
starts asking how far it can go, what it cost, etc. Huge EV grin as I
start rattling off all the facts I know. He was very positive and said
that wouldn't be a bad way to get around town! I missed another car
that was trying to get my attention when I was going over the gauges and
talking on the radio. Lots of people were turning their heads and I'm
sure I was a sight to see. The lady at the BMV couldn't recall ever
plating one of these cars in Fort Wayne.
The ride back was pretty uneventful as the sun had already set and I
couldn't see the people looking at me too well. About 2+ miles from
home, it started getting sluggish. It wasn't holding more than 25 on my
speedometer, so about 33 for real. I got home and took measurements on
all 8 batteries and discovered 6 of them to be at 6.2v but the other 2
were about 5.5v. After sitting about an hour all 8 of them had risen up
to about 6.3v-6.4v.
The 2 initial low ones were both inaccessible for easy watering and I am
wondering if this is the likely cause of these two being lower. Any
Comuta-Car owners out there on this list have advice as to how to water
these batteries? Do you un-cable and pull them all out? Do you have an
intricate system of mirrors and hoses? Is there any hope of getting
these 2 back in line with the others?
Thanks!
Enjoying the grin,
Bobby
http://www.tungsai.com/photoalbum/index.php?task=album&album=C-Car
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Phil,
I'm using the sedan version of a 92 Civic. The
hatch versions come with manual, but the sedans, like
mine, are all power. So it was easy for me to swap
out the power, and for $65 get the manual.
Everyone I talked to told me not to just use the
power one with the pump off; that I'd wind up in a
wrestling match, putting in more effort than I would
with a manual rack. And I wound up not being able to
anyway, because I need the area where the pump and
cooling tubes are. Trying to remove just part of the
system to get battery racks where I needed them
would've been just plain messy.
If you do decide to go with the 92-95 Civic, write
me back, because I've got hours of journal notes that
would set you up wonderfully.
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, all
>
> I'm still searching for a donor car ( I have my
> heart set on a Toyota Echo)
> so I can start work now that it's warming up here (
> Rochester NY). The
> problem is finding one with manual steering. A few
> of these were sold with
> manual steering ( according to the local dealer) but
> mostly with power
> steering in this country. I've found a couple of
> likely cars, so far,
> except none with manual steering.
>
> I could buy a power steering car, and just drain
> the fluid and use it as a
> manual. The ratio is a bit faster than the manual
> rack ( 19.5 : 1 for the
> manual rack, 17.1:1 for the power-assisted) , so
> effort would be higher, but
> I'm not too worried about that - it will still be a
> fairly light car, and
> the tires will be pumped pretty hard - probably
> enough to make up for the
> faster ratio. My plan (for now) is to keep the
> front axle loading about the
> same as the original, and add weight ( and stiffer
> springs) to the rear.
>
> How have all of you solved this problem? Is using
> power steering as manual
> commonly done with ev's?
>
> Are there any safety concerns about using a power
> steering rack as a manual
> - as far as reliability of the rack being used
> differently than it was
> designed for? Will steering be harder because of
> the extra hardware in the
> rack ( even if I drain the fluid)?
>
> I'm eager to get my hands on a car and get to work,
> so I'm about ready to
> give up looking for a manual steering car, but I
> don't want to make a
> mistake I'll regret later.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil Marino
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN
> Video. Free!
>
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Warming up? Is Rochester really that much different than Rome? It
was 7f here this morning, I still have 4 feet of ice crystals
covering my yard.....
Anyway, can't you just go to the autoparts store and buy a new
manual rack, or box, it shouldn't cost you more than $200.00.
With winter ending, the autosalvage yards should have some
available too.
The Echo is kinda small, what batts are you thinking?
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Philip Marino [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:26 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Power steering question - can't find a manual Echo
>
>
>Hi, all
>
>I'm still searching for a donor car ( I have my heart set on a
Toyota Echo)
>so I can start work now that it's warming up here ( Rochester
NY). The
>problem is finding one with manual steering. A few of these were
sold with
>manual steering ( according to the local dealer) but mostly with
power
>steering in this country. I've found a couple of likely cars, so
far,
>except none with manual steering.
>
> I could buy a power steering car, and just drain the fluid and
use it as a
>
>manual. The ratio is a bit faster than the manual rack ( 19.5 :
1 for the
>manual rack, 17.1:1 for the power-assisted) , so effort would be
higher, but
>
>I'm not too worried about that - it will still be a fairly light
car, and
>the tires will be pumped pretty hard - probably enough to make up
for the
>faster ratio. My plan (for now) is to keep the front axle
loading about the
>
>same as the original, and add weight ( and stiffer springs) to
the rear.
>
>How have all of you solved this problem? Is using power steering
as manual
>commonly done with ev's?
>
>Are there any safety concerns about using a power steering rack
as a manual
>- as far as reliability of the rack being used differently than
it was
>designed for? Will steering be harder because of the extra
hardware in the
>rack ( even if I drain the fluid)?
>
>I'm eager to get my hands on a car and get to work, so I'm about
ready to
>give up looking for a manual steering car, but I don't want to
make a
>mistake I'll regret later.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Phil Marino
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
>http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Philip Marino wrote:
> Hi, all
>
> I'm still searching for a donor car ( I have my heart set on a Toyota Echo)
> ...The problem is finding one with manual steering. A few of these were sold with
> manual steering....I could buy a power steering car, and just drain the fluid and
> use it
> as a
> manual, and add weight ( and stiffer springs) to the rear.
> How have all of you solved this problem? Is using power steering as manual
> commonly done with ev's?
It's pretty easy to solve, by using an electro-hydraulic pump from a 1st generation
Toyota
MR2, a 12V pump that is designed to run power steering...and, it's even a Toyota part!
I
used one of these on Red Beastie, as converted, a 5300 pound beast of a '95 Xtracab
Toyota
pickup, and it had smooth operating power steering.
A couple of the things I love about my '72 Datsun 1200's, is that they are light
enough to
have come without power brakes and power steering. Even with batteries under the hood,
the
steering is light and effortless, without any pump noises. The manual brakes too, work
great, minus any vacuum pump noises.
If the Echo really did come with manual steering as an option, it would be best to go
that
route, if you can get the parts. If not, find a clean Echo with power steering and add
the
MR2 pump.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philip,
I used a power rack, manually, in my Jetta and it was
ok. I didn't drain the fluid though; I just took the
pump out of the loop and connected inlet and outlet to
the reservoir. I don't know if that is the preferred
way to do it, but it worked for me.
Steering effort was definitely increased, particularly
at low speeds, but i wouldn't say it was so bad as to
be unsafe or intolerable.
i would look into junkyard racks or as others have
mentioned, buying a new rack from a dealer. But if you
can't find one, or it is a budget buster, i think you
will do fine without.
~Fortunat
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, all
>
> I'm still searching for a donor car ( I have my
> heart set on a Toyota Echo)
> so I can start work now that it's warming up here (
> Rochester NY). The
> problem is finding one with manual steering. A few
> of these were sold with
> manual steering ( according to the local dealer) but
> mostly with power
> steering in this country. I've found a couple of
> likely cars, so far,
> except none with manual steering.
>
> I could buy a power steering car, and just drain
> the fluid and use it as a
> manual. The ratio is a bit faster than the manual
> rack ( 19.5 : 1 for the
> manual rack, 17.1:1 for the power-assisted) , so
> effort would be higher, but
> I'm not too worried about that - it will still be a
> fairly light car, and
> the tires will be pumped pretty hard - probably
> enough to make up for the
> faster ratio. My plan (for now) is to keep the
> front axle loading about the
> same as the original, and add weight ( and stiffer
> springs) to the rear.
>
> How have all of you solved this problem? Is using
> power steering as manual
> commonly done with ev's?
>
> Are there any safety concerns about using a power
> steering rack as a manual
> - as far as reliability of the rack being used
> differently than it was
> designed for? Will steering be harder because of
> the extra hardware in the
> rack ( even if I drain the fluid)?
>
> I'm eager to get my hands on a car and get to work,
> so I'm about ready to
> give up looking for a manual steering car, but I
> don't want to make a
> mistake I'll regret later.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil Marino
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN
> Video. Free!
>
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Otmar wrote:
> Hey John,
> That is such a nice concept, and it sure would be nice if what you
> just described was the common terminology, but unfortunately I
> believe you are wrong on this one. Look at all the BLDC servo motors on machinery.
> They
> have both
> internal and external controllers with 3 power wires to the motor.
> Yet I don't believe that they are regularly called AC.
Rod Hower wrote:
> Ok, all of the motor controls I design are
> called BLDC. Some of them are integrated with
> the motor and have two wires connected to DC power.
> Other controls are external and have 3 phase wires
> and hall signals connected. Either way they are
> 3 phase synchronous AC motors. BLDC is a marketing
> term.
>
In my work as a forklift mechanic, I have recently been given an all new customer base
and
a new route here in the Portland metro area, a place called Swan Island, an
industrial park on what used to be an island, but was changed into a man-made
peninsula in
the mid 1920's. Before man's intervention, it was a wild and free island in the
Willamette
River in the middle of Portland, where thousands of swans lived. Though the original
narrow but deep channel between it and the mainland was filled with dredged-up soil
from
the wider but shallower channel to the west of the island in 1925-1927, and though the
original bridge to the island was torn down and replaced with a built-up earthen
causeway,
and though it now only has water on three sides, they still call it an island,
everybody
does...all the signage says 'Swan Island Shipyard'...'Swan Island Industrial
Park'...'Swan
Island, Mock's Landing'...etc,. etc......it's kind of like calling a motor with three
wires that 'has' to be fed with AC in order to spin, a brushless DC!
See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> It's pretty easy to solve, by using an electro-hydraulic pump from a 1st generation
> Toyota
> MR2, a 12V pump that is designed to run power steering...and, it's even a Toyota
> part! I
> used one of these on Red Beastie, as converted, a 5300 pound beast of a '95 Xtracab
> Toyota
> pickup, and it had smooth operating power steering.
Hate to nitpick, but the MR2's with 12v power steering pumps were the
2nd generation cars. (And John has seen both and probably knows better)
The 1st gen (AW11, or MK2) cars had the angular look of a the 80's
(similar to a fiero) and were built from 85-89 with an excellent manual
rack.
The second gen cars (MK2) were sold in the US from 91-96 and had an
updated smoother look. The power steering was provided by a 12v
electrohydrulic pump located halfway thru the floor in the front (spare
tire) trunk. These pumps are available from salvage yards all over the
country for about $35 to $50 (they almost never failed), checkout
www.car-part.com . Be careful, the pump can draw upwards of 100amps
with the wheels against the stops, and it will weld a standard 40amp
automotive relay closed.
The current MR2 (MK3 or Spyder) has been available since 2000? or so.
Still midengined, but it is considerably smaller in terms of usable
volume due to the standard convertible top. There is no trunk, total
volume for luggage is 1.9 cubic feet (.05 cubic meters) behind the
seats.
> A couple of the things I love about my '72 Datsun 1200's, is that they are light
> enough to
> have come without power brakes and power steering. Even with batteries under the
> hood, the
> steering is light and effortless, without any pump noises. The manual brakes too,
> work
> great, minus any vacuum pump noises.
Heh... the "light and effortless" applies are much to the entire car, as
the steering.
Mark Farver
180VDC 1000amp 87 MR2EV
http://www.AustinEV.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
snip
> use the fuel tank to make a mold for a fiberglass
> cover that would blend
> into covers/fairings over the batteries?
snip
I'll be using the top of the tank and fairing in some
new pieces of aluminum to form new covers/fairings as
well as adding windows over the batteries to leave no
doubt that this is electric.
> Did you weigh your K75 with all the ICE
> bits removed?
Now that the bike is together I will weigh it. I
couldn't belive how heavy the old ICE was when I took
it out. Even with all the batts I have in this thing I
still believe it is lighter than the original. I have
posted some pictures on my site.
http://reverendgadget.com/subpage1.html
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's all in the archeives. I emailed the group a while back. It was a
dealer in New England area. I think it was 38 + 15 shipping + mounting and
balancing. Lawrence Rhodes....The guys in Minn. want more. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: NRT2 Nokian
> On 26 Feb 2004 at 9:10, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > I had some sent last year 175 70
> > R13. Seem to work well.
>
> Sheesh, it took me MONTHS to get four NRT2s in that size. They had to be
> ordered directly from Finland. They cost me a lot more than you paid,
too -
> about $70 each with shipping.
>
> And these guys had them in stock. I wish I'd known that before I put all
> that time, effort, and money into the deal.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> The question can arise whether with the development of such tech-
> nological means of communication as radio, film, and the daily
> press, freedom of thought is possible at all. Does this not mean
> constant infection with whatever ideas are in circulation?
>
> -- Czeslaw Milosz, 1942
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I started sketching out a simple battery monitoring system that would check
> if any battery was significantly lower than all the other batteries and
> light-up a lamp on the dash if one was. Since I'm planning on using Rudman
> Regs with a PFC-20, I'm wondering if it's worth the effort to design this
> sort of monitoring system. **When regulators are used, what is the
> likelyhood of a stray battery?** Is there a good enough chance of wrecking
> a battery to make it worth building the BMS?
>
> I'm trying to plan ahead as much as possible to avoid batricide on my first
> set of Orbitals :)
>
> -Ryan
>
> __________________________________
> www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
If you use a full set of Mk2 Regs and the RegBuss, AND make the Low batt
circuit active, by wiring up a LED to LowBatt port.... Then you have the
Regs to save you on charge, and the Lowbatt LED to tell you when you are
drawing any battery too far down. Then you do have full protection.
The RegBuss system will tell you if you have a problem, but not which
battery is in jepordy. You have get out and find the Reg with the Red
LED lit.
So it's not a full digital BMS, but it has all the warnings that are
really needed. Just ask for the Lowbatt circuit when you place your
charger and reg order.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron Birenboim wrote:
>
> damon henry wrote:
>
> > ...While in Radio Shack the other day I saw they had a "What are
> > Microcontrollers" education kit for $79.99.
> > ... This kit is a great education tool that many of the
> > hobbiest on this list might be interested in.... I showed it
> > to my kids and they were all intrigued and I'm looking forward to going
> > through some of the projects with them to introduce them not only to
> > microcontrollers, but basic electrical theory.
>
> Definately take a look at those little Leggo Robotics kits.
> Very k00l. I have only just seen them, but I know that
> most University programs now teach a course in robotics
> and/or controls using these little Leggo robots.
> If I didn't already have too many hobbies, I'd get one
> for myself to play with.
>
> A sharp high-school kid can really build functioning,
> innovative robots fairly easily with this thing.
> It actually teaches you how to do embedded programming.
> Not all that different from the big systems I've worked on,
> but cheap and easy enough for kids to play with.
They've been discontinued. Besides, the programs allowed for the
'bricks' was rather severely limited by the software that ran on the PC.
However, several groups have 'hacked' the brick's micro, and wrote their
own development system to support it.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
amadare wrote:
> go title and plate the Comuta-Car I had recently bought...
Congrulations on getting it on the road! Just in time for this summer's
$2/gal gas! :-)
> The ride back was pretty uneventful... took measurements on all 8
> batteries and discovered 6 of them to be at 6.2v but the other 2
> were about 5.5v. After sitting about an hour all 8 of them had risen
> up to about 6.3v-6.4v.
Good; you were lucky enough not to reverse any cells -- this time.
> The 2 initial low ones were both inaccessible for easy watering
> and I am wondering if this is the likely cause of these two being
> lower.
Yes, that's a big shortcoming of the design. On both the original
CitiCar and ComutaVan, access is much easier. On the CitiCar, the
batteries are under the seat, which hinges up. On the ComutaVan, they
added a small hood in front and a trapdoor in back to get at the
batteries. You could probably add such a hatch.
> Is there any hope of getting these 2 back in line with the others?
Yes. I suspect the batteries are just cold and not broken in or
exercised. Low water won't cause low performance, unless they are VERY
low. Low water just wrecks the batteries.
There is a battery watering device that works like the type you use for
watering a rabbit or guinea pig. An inverted bottle with a hose on the
bottom. Air has to go up the hose for water to come out. You hold the
bottle above the battery, stick the hose on top of the open cell, and
press. This opens a valve, and lets water gurgle into the battery. It
stops automatically when the water reaches the right level and so won't
let any more air flow back up the hose. I don't know the brand or name
any more, but any big battery distributor will have them.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make no mistake. Even at 750 watts the speed alone will class these
vehicles as a moped. Just the looks alone will have the cops all over you.
In California you should register all scooters in my opinion as a moped. It
only costs 6 dollars one time and you get a nice metal license plate.
Lawrence Rhodes
From: "zzxxa8" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Pep Boys To Become A Major Player in the Personal Vehicle market?
Hello,
I am new to this group, but have been an electric vehicle and
electric scooter enthusiast for many years. As such,I have been
following the activity at Pep Boys here in San Diego as they appear
to be adding new electric (and ughh! gas scooters) to their line-up.
This past Sunday, 20 Feb 2004. I stopped at the Pep Boys located on
El Cajon Blvd and was surprised by what I saw. In addition to the e-
scooters mentioned in previous Zappy posts, they had significantly
larger units on display, at reasonable prices. I am specifically
referring to a full size Vespa (gas styled) electric scooter with a
rear wheel brushed electric hub motor rated at 750 watts(1 HP) that
has a claimed top speed of 28-30 miles per hour with a price tag of
$699. The batteries were located low in the frame, partially
underneath the locking motorcycle style saddle seat. It appeared to
be a 24 volt model with two large (automotive size) 12 volt
batteries. I am not absolutely sure of the voltage, as there was no
literature available during the show. Another scooter, with styling
similar to the Oxygen electric scooter was als o on display. It was
called the 'Fusion', and also featured turn signals, double
motorcycle saddle sized seating, rear locking parcel box and more )it
was also rated at 750 watts) for $899. Both scooter's power rating
of 750 watts and 28 MPH top speed means that these scooters, although
full sized, should not require any special licensing requirements in
California (unlike the Rad2GO 1500watt model which technically DOES
require licensing as a moped under current California law). I spoke
to a sales person who said that these scooters are currently being
sold at Pep Boys west of California. He also indicated that Pep Boys
(here in California)is applying for the required paperwork to conduct
sales of these units IN California. He said that hopefully it will be
approved in about a month. He also mentioned that this was the
reason that they had a large display going that day. In his own
words, he said that Pep Boys "wanted to be seen as a major
player.....beyond Kragens Automotive Stores.... in the personal
vehicle field." Perhaps your other Zappy Group members who live in
Arizona, or the other states, can share with this group just what
scooter's Pep Boys does carry in their area.
While I am sure that some in this group will wonder why anyone
would purchase a full-sized electric scooter that weighs 200 pounsds
or more, their main appeal will be to (in my opinion) middle-aged
customers looking for a respectable two-wheeled alternative to their
gas guzzler (I, myself, am in this group). Thes two scooters that I
just described should meet this criteria.
My only concern about these units is parts available after the
sales. Anyone considering the purchase of a foreign scooter (whether
from China or elsewhere) would be advised to purcjase replacement
motor brushes, a repair manual, and brake shoes/brake pads, at the
minimum, to ensure that they will have many satisfactory years of
riding even if the scoooter line becomes orphaned.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Chapman wrote:
>
> Joe and Rich,
> Just a dumb noobie question I know but what if you used one of those spindle
> sanding drums in a drill press to pre arc your brushes? Not completely, just
> sand far enough in to leave a little on the sides so you know that the brush
> is fully seated when it hits the edge. They come in many different sizes and
> i am sure there is one close to the diameter of your commutator. Seems like
> it would help break in the brushes quicker and save wear and tear on the
> comm. David Chapman.
The correct procedure is to put sand paper, about 400 grit on the
commutator with the grit facing up into the brush. The lap the brush
into the comm. Then blow out the dust, and then spin the comm, and use
comm stones to polish the now pre radiused brush.
The Photo that Joe took was a Brush from a AvDC FB4004 6.7 inch Shorty
that I got it from John Wayland. It's brush Was TOTALaly flat ended. NO
pre arc at all!! That's why I took a shot of it and plan on having it on
The Website in a Motor Stuff download area. So Yea the world could have
REALLY flat brush faces on AvDC motors. Just think if all the Sparrow
motors came without any radius ing on the bruhses at all?? I don't think
this happened, but it could have.
Using a Sanding drum, is a good start. It would work really fast, but
you need it to be as close as possible to the actual arc of the
Commutator. I will use the fried comm from my XP motor to dial in
brushes for AvDC 8 inch motors. I am going to do the front 9 incher for
gone poastal. It will have virgin brushes, but I bet they are preARCed.
I bought a couple of boxes of Brush stones from Grainger
yesterday(Grainger.com part number 3GD63) I will be doing some brush
cutting and polishing efforts this weekend.
Gp needs all the help she can get. I plan on having that motor as dialed
in as I can get it.
Madman's curse is having the controllers and motors Break everything
else....down the drive train.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lego actually promoted them to younger ages too. I worked with grades
6-8 for a year... basically a sharp 6th grader could work it. One of the
simple projects is a bumper car which is <gasp> a little EV!!! Actually
the kids loved making anything with wheels that moved, and faster was
always better (go NEDRA!).
Aaron Birenboim wrote:
Definately take a look at those little Leggo Robotics kits.
Very k00l. I have only just seen them, but I know that
most University programs now teach a course in robotics
and/or controls using these little Leggo robots.
If I didn't already have too many hobbies, I'd get one
for myself to play with.
A sharp high-school kid can really build functioning,
innovative robots fairly easily with this thing.
It actually teaches you how to do embedded programming.
Not all that different from the big systems I've worked on,
but cheap and easy enough for kids to play with.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
> snip
> > use the fuel tank to make a mold for a fiberglass
> > cover that would blend
> > into covers/fairings over the batteries?
> snip
>
> I'll be using the top of the tank and fairing in some
> new pieces of aluminum to form new covers/fairings as
> well as adding windows over the batteries to leave no
> doubt that this is electric.
>
>
> > Did you weigh your K75 with all the ICE
> > bits removed?
>
> Now that the bike is together I will weigh it. I
> couldn't belive how heavy the old ICE was when I took
> it out. Even with all the batts I have in this thing I
> still believe it is lighter than the original. I have
> posted some pictures on my site.
> http://reverendgadget.com/subpage1.html
Very nice work! Your placement of the batteries really adds to the
visual appeal. I would have tried to keep them lower for a better cg,
but that would cause a much more bulbous shape for the bodywork covering
them. Please give us details on stability and handling when you get it
on the road. Does it feel planted at speed? Does it keep its line
under braking in a turn? Does it flick quickly through right-left-right
transitions? Inquiring minds want to know.
How does it shift? It looks like you ditched the clutch (I'm not
familiar with the K75 drive parts). If so, is the shifting smoother or
clunkier than original?
Are you using 13 Ah or 16 Ah Hawkers? After you get some experience
with the bike you might want to go to two strings at 144 V for better
top end. Check with the list gurus first - you'll probably need to
advance the motor and attend to some other details. (Definitely add
overspeed protection!) My guess is the motor will do just fine at that
voltage, and you'll have a practical road-going EM that has real ICE
motorcycle performance. In fact, yours would be the first that I know
of.
Keep it up and keep us posted! And definitely keep your drawings for
the motor adapter, coupling and frame mods!
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
nice bike, nice clean work. In particular, the motor and battery
mounting is very slick.
keep us posted on how things go. plugging away on the 240Z,
Seth
On Friday, February 27, 2004, at 12:06 PM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
snip
use the fuel tank to make a mold for a fiberglass
cover that would blend
into covers/fairings over the batteries?
snip
I'll be using the top of the tank and fairing in some
new pieces of aluminum to form new covers/fairings as
well as adding windows over the batteries to leave no
doubt that this is electric.
Did you weigh your K75 with all the ICE
bits removed?
Now that the bike is together I will weigh it. I
couldn't belive how heavy the old ICE was when I took
it out. Even with all the batts I have in this thing I
still believe it is lighter than the original. I have
posted some pictures on my site.
http://reverendgadget.com/subpage1.html
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Feb 2004 at 2:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It'll hit the
> battery with a pulse till the voltage hits around 15, then wait for the
> battery voltage to fall off, then hit it again.
Sounds like a simple cycle-dropping charge controller. You can get a
similar algorithm in the $50 or so chargers they sell at NAPA and K-Mart.
These are the ones that come in vertical-profile plastic cases. They work
OK. I use three of them ($30 each at Big Lots about 5 years ago) to charge
the gel batteries in my Elec-trak. Mine say "Exide" on them, but they were
made by Cliplight in Canada and were / are sold under several different
brand names.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2004 at 18:34, damon henry wrote:
> What I don't understand is why did the pack voltage not rise like usual and
> the current ramp down.
Thermal runaway?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Twenty years ago, one out of every six federal tax dollars was
generated by a corporation. That has now fallen to about one out
of every 10.
-- Arianna Huffington, Salon Magazine
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Feb 2004 at 9:34, amadare wrote:
> the speedo was only reading
> about 30mph. I radioed back to my wife that we weren't going that fast
> and she shot back, "uh we're going 42."
It sounds like you have the wrong speedometer drive. C-cars came with two
different axle ratios, 5.17 usually (but not always) shipped to flat areas
and 6.38 for hilly areas. You may have a 5.17 axle with a drive meant for a
6.38 axle.
If you're interested, I have a 6.38 C-car axle here. The half shafts are
out and rusty, and it has no brakes. I'm tired of tripping over it. If you
or anybody else wants it, contact me offline. It's free for the taking if
you pick it up near Akron, Ohio.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a
little longer.
-- Henry Kissinger
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
