EV Digest 3385
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Evercell MB-100 Chargers
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) 100,000km in Th!nk City EV
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Motor properties
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Motor properties
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold weather fuel cell)
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Honda Produces cold weather fuel cell.
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Accounts department
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Motor properties
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Home made dynos with torque sensors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Honda Produces cold weather fuel cell.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motor properties
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor properties
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) No back EMF= No output?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold weather fuel cell)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Green Emeter, Lucus Effect - Wabbit Weport
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor timing (was: RE: dyno2)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Home made dynos with torque sensors
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Your website
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Home made dynos with torque sensors
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Green Emeter, Lucus Effect - Wabbit Weport
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Green Emeter, Lucus Effect - Wabbit Weport
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: OT Re: Playing with a Basic Stamp
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV Album Hits 500 Entries!
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Was; Home made dynos with torque sensors Hallyburton and Bolder
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold weather fuel cell)
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Grid-powered "dump charging"
by "Schacherl Jens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Home made dynos with torque sensors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 100,000km in Th!nk City EV
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Ed,
Yep, this is for a scooter. We're also considering the Valence Technology
Lithium batteries but I'm not the one handling the monetary side of things
so we're looking at different batteries.
Thanks for pointing out the Zivan.
I personally think the Lithium pack would be cool. The pack itself is about
the size of a scooter deck so it would be perfect to go under the deck.
Chip
On 3/1/04 7:55 PM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:50:22 -0800
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Evercell MB-100 Chargers
>
> Chip,
>
> Sounds like this is for a scooter or other small EV.
> So size and weight are a consideration.
>
> It's possible to get a Zivan charger with the NiZn charging profile. Might
> be the best combination for this situation.
>
> BR,
> Ed Thorpe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chip Gribben
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 5:33 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Evercell MB-100 Chargers
>
>
> Can anyone recommend a charger for the Evercels? Particularly the MB-100.
>
> We're looking at a charger for a 48-volt application.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just received the following from Knut Abrahamsen
in Norway, celebrating Oyvind Lunde's milestone
of 100,000km in his Th!nk City on the original
pack of NiCds. I guess Honda didn't read this... ;)
"And they don't work in cold weather."
Honda on BEVs
--------------------------------------------------------
> From: "KNUT ABRAHAMSEN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Nick Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: 100 000 km in a Think
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:06:06 +0100
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
> X-Aplus-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP
> for more information
> X-Aplus-MailScanner: Found to be clean
> X-Aplus-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin
> (score=0.101,
> required 1, HTML_FONT_BIG 0.10, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00)
>
> Hello Nick,
> Your fellow president, Oyvind Lunde, president of the
> Norwegian EV Ass. Norstart,
> today, March 1st, passed 100 000 km in his Think car,
> and that is with the original NiCd batteries.
>
> If you would like to read a little more about Oyvind, you
> can take a look at
>
> http://www.evguide.nu/100000.html
>
> and his mailaddress is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Take a look on
>
> http://www.apve.pt/conteudo_index/2004eet/exhibition.asp
>
> and http://www.thinkev.com/uk/press.html
>
> You are welcome to forward this news to the Think ?
group.
> Best regards
> Knut Abrahamsen
> www.evguide.nu
--------------------------------------------------------
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA
95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
Th!nk City EV driver & President, North Bay Electric Auto
Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
***************************************************************
** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD
**
** 55 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from
$18.95! **
** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook
**
** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller,
etc. **
** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock
**
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to mention that if it was possible to build a functional motor with
zero BEMF then Nibbles the hamster running in his hamster wheel would be
able to generate enough energy to power all of North America.
However, some folks will still insist that BEMF is a loss that can be
eliminated. After all it's based on Physical Laws that were discovered
over a hundred years ago so "Surely we can improve on them".
The fact is that dozens of Solar Racing teams use motors that are over
96% efficient AND generate over 100V BEMF per 1,000 rpm. This alone
would disprove Garry's theory, however clearly all of these folks with
PhDs and $100,000s worth of sophisticated test equipment are wrong.
After all there is no possible way that Garry's theory could be wrong.
Nope, Garry doesn't have any formal education in this area so he can
"think outside the box". If he doesn't understand something, then he
simply has to ignore it and it has no effect on his theory. This allows
him to "prove" that his theory is right without having to resort to
anything as pedestrian as taking measurements.
On Sun, 2004-02-29 at 23:49, Rich Rudman wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> >
> > It's ridiculously easy to build motors with very low back emf, you just
> > have to build motors with lousy efficiency.
> >
> > --
>
> Yea we need enough torque to beable to measure it with a 1000 ftlbs
> sensor.
> No back EMF I wonder if the sensor would notice.
>
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Nope, Garry doesn't have any formal education in this area so he can
> "think outside the box". If he doesn't understand something, then he
> simply has to ignore it and it has no effect on his theory. This allows
> him to "prove" that his theory is right without having to resort to
> anything as pedestrian as taking measurements.
> > No back EMF I wonder if the sensor would notice.
Peter, lets let it go.... we flamed him last time, I want to see it and
measure it.
Until this happens... I am not really worried about it.
I do get a bit irked by a intrusion on a serious thread by a simple
impracticality.
I am trying to get Racers and serious motor abusers to think about what
makes a better motor, and how to pick out a motor that will work.
I am not trying to reinvent the world. I am messing with gear that can
make a few hundred ft lbs of torque. Frankly I can't see how a zero
BEMF motor can work, or how the techniques could have any effects on the
grunt low tech business of Brushed series wound motors.
If I am shown how to make %40 more torque, or keep the brushes alive at
1500 amps and 5000 rpm, fine I am all ears.
I expect test data, much the same as I am posting in the motortech, and
dyno threads.
I am not dealing in reverse Lorentz forces and dual coils one that
cancels out the other. All that's nice mind game theory. Fun for Sunday
afternoon phone calls.
Alot of listers want to hear the real test data, and the stories that
are made by doing the hardwork, and making it happen. The Bad and the
good, and the answered questions reduced to practical procedures and
concepts. That's why I am here.
Tonight I have the charger production late shift, and 4 board sets to
load and low power, This is the nuts and bolts of what I have to do to
keep the light on around here, and maybe scratch some late hours out in
the cold getting the 1000 lbs force sensor bolted up to the dyno in a
manner that won't break it. This is NOT going to be easy.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold weather
fuel cell)
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I have a 168v pack in my Sparrow, and with a 240v feed and PFC-50
> > charger, I
> > can recharge in as little as 20-25 minutes. But that's for a pack
> > with about
> > 20-25 miles per charge range at freeway speed.
>
> That's not bad.
>
> Is there anything bigger than a PFC-50? I was thinking an electric
> "filling station" could get an industrial power feed, 408V or 440V or
> whatever that usual voltage is, and be able to deliver hundreds of amps
> at once at any typical pack voltage (maybe even charge more than one
> car at the same time), providing the batteries can handle it. If the
> EV market was to be scaled up, such services would be necessary IMO.
The PFC chargers can be stacked provided that they are either isolated with
a iso transformer or on the same leg.
And yes, I think that 'gas stations' for electric cars would be a neccesary
part of a large-scale electrical infrastructure.
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Fastest recharge time 3 hours? Hmmm. John Wayland does the dump
> charging thing a whole lot faster than that. Seems to me 10-15 minutes
> ought to be achievable at consumer recharge stations, as long as
> industrial-size grid-power connections are available.
John can dump charge in 5-10 minutes because he is only putting in a
relatively minuscule amount of energy. After all he is charging for
5-10 minutes and discharging in 15 seconds.
Let's assume we have a consumer EV with 100 miles of usable range, do
you really think you can dump charge that in 15 minutes? Remember as
you increase your charging rate efficiency drops. If we have a super
efficient vehicle that gets something like 3 miles per kwh, whe fast
charged, that is 33 kwhs worth of charge.
To charge that much energy in 15 minutes would require at least 133 kilo
watts of power (roughly enough to run 100 houses).
At 408V that works out to about 325 amps, per car.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on castor)
Found virus WORM_BAGLE.C in file rdqrrjvd.exe (in acababbbcbc.zip)
The file is deleted.
---------------------------------------------------------
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on castor)
acababbbcbc.zip is removed from here because it contains a virus.
---------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's kind of harsh Peter considering I drove
my dyno motor with zero BEMF just the other day.
The only problem was that the shunt field was
not connected and the sepex motor was being turned
by my BLDC motor. Unfortunately I only measured
-100% efficiency (but I did have almost zero BEMF
on the shunt motor!!!)
Rod
P.S. I think I'll stick with my 95% peak efficient
BLDC motor, even though it produces some BEMF :-)
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not to mention that if it was possible to build a
> functional motor with
> zero BEMF then Nibbles the hamster running in his
> hamster wheel would be
> able to generate enough energy to power all of North
> America.
>
> However, some folks will still insist that BEMF is a
> loss that can be
> eliminated. After all it's based on Physical Laws
> that were discovered
> over a hundred years ago so "Surely we can improve
> on them".
>
> The fact is that dozens of Solar Racing teams use
> motors that are over
> 96% efficient AND generate over 100V BEMF per 1,000
> rpm. This alone
> would disprove Garry's theory, however clearly all
> of these folks with
> PhDs and $100,000s worth of sophisticated test
> equipment are wrong.
> After all there is no possible way that Garry's
> theory could be wrong.
>
> Nope, Garry doesn't have any formal education in
> this area so he can
> "think outside the box". If he doesn't understand
> something, then he
> simply has to ignore it and it has no effect on his
> theory. This allows
> him to "prove" that his theory is right without
> having to resort to
> anything as pedestrian as taking measurements.
>
> On Sun, 2004-02-29 at 23:49, Rich Rudman wrote:
> > Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > It's ridiculously easy to build motors with very
> low back emf, you just
> > > have to build motors with lousy efficiency.
> > >
> > > --
> >
> > Yea we need enough torque to beable to measure it
> with a 1000 ftlbs
> > sensor.
> > No back EMF I wonder if the sensor would notice.
> >
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> > www.manzanitamicro.com
> > 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
> --
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying
> there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we
> just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem
> solve itself?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've read all of the posts about do it yourself
torque sensing on a dyno. I need to build one
for my setup at work. Is there a condensed version
of something that actually works? Rich, did you get
something going for low dollar?. If I don't figure
something out I'm sure they can pay some Indian or
Chinese engineers to do it cheaper. No insult to
the foreign EV'rs, we just have to make a living
in the USA.
Rod
P.S. If I had invested in Halliburton stock my
future would be golden.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Makes sense. It takes a solid 30amps at 240 volts to charge the Prizm
and even that provides only [EMAIL PROTECTED] volts base (well, up to 375, but
you get the point). This will bring me 36 miles of range in 2 hours. To
do this in 7.5 minutes would take eight times the power, or 240 amps
dual phase or perhaps 160 amps 3 phase 240 volts.
To go 140 miles in a theoretical Lithium battery would take 8 hours,
four times as long. Hawkers can take a fast charge rate, but I don't
think Lithiums can. Even if they could, to bring the pack up to full in
7.5 minutes would now take 320 amps at 3 phase 480 volts.
Multiply that by eight cars charging at once at 8 pumps and you have a
lot of power needed. The sheer amount of energy in gasoline is
staggering, even extracted at the inefficient amounts of an ICE...
Chris
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Fastest recharge time 3 hours? Hmmm. John Wayland does the dump
charging thing a whole lot faster than that. Seems to me 10-15 minutes
ought to be achievable at consumer recharge stations, as long as
industrial-size grid-power connections are available.
John can dump charge in 5-10 minutes because he is only putting in a
relatively minuscule amount of energy. After all he is charging for
5-10 minutes and discharging in 15 seconds.
Let's assume we have a consumer EV with 100 miles of usable range, do
you really think you can dump charge that in 15 minutes? Remember as
you increase your charging rate efficiency drops. If we have a super
efficient vehicle that gets something like 3 miles per kwh, whe fast
charged, that is 33 kwhs worth of charge.
To charge that much energy in 15 minutes would require at least 133 kilo
watts of power (roughly enough to run 100 houses).
At 408V that works out to about 325 amps, per car.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 20:05, Rod Hower wrote:
> That's kind of harsh Peter considering I drove
> my dyno motor with zero BEMF just the other day.
> The only problem was that the shunt field was
> not connected and the sepex motor was being turned
> by my BLDC motor.
Ahh, but was it "Functional" when you had near zero BEMF?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, it was functional, unfortunately I had
-100% efficiency :-). The energy elite A.K.A.
those in power here in the US really like my
dyno setup with less than zero efficiency.
Rod
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 20:05, Rod Hower wrote:
> > That's kind of harsh Peter considering I drove
> > my dyno motor with zero BEMF just the other day.
> > The only problem was that the shunt field was
> > not connected and the sepex motor was being turned
> > by my BLDC motor.
>
> Ahh, but was it "Functional" when you had near zero
> BEMF?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<Yes, it was functional, unfortunately I had
-100% efficiency :-). The energy elite A.K.A.
those in power here in the US really like my
dyno setup with less than zero efficiency.
Rod>>
I would guess -100% efficiency means *worse* then 0% efficiency? Yeah, the
energy elite would be real happy if we all had to feed motors that had NO
output!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PFC chargers can operate from different isolated windings of the same
transformer. We proposed that on the PFC-150. It had 480 three phase going
in and three 50 amp 240 VAC secondaries with each going to a separate PFC-50
with each of them connected at the outputs to a common battery. We proposed
a buck enhancer on them for a total of 240 AMPS DC output. As far as I know,
the proposal is still alive somewhere waiting to be funded.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon "Sheer" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold
weather fuel cell)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:53 AM
> Subject: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold weather
> fuel cell)
>
>
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > I have a 168v pack in my Sparrow, and with a 240v feed and PFC-50
> > > charger, I
> > > can recharge in as little as 20-25 minutes. But that's for a pack
> > > with about
> > > 20-25 miles per charge range at freeway speed.
> >
> > That's not bad.
> >
> > Is there anything bigger than a PFC-50? I was thinking an electric
> > "filling station" could get an industrial power feed, 408V or 440V or
> > whatever that usual voltage is, and be able to deliver hundreds of amps
> > at once at any typical pack voltage (maybe even charge more than one
> > car at the same time), providing the batteries can handle it. If the
> > EV market was to be scaled up, such services would be necessary IMO.
>
> The PFC chargers can be stacked provided that they are either isolated
with
> a iso transformer or on the same leg.
>
> And yes, I think that 'gas stations' for electric cars would be a
neccesary
> part of a large-scale electrical infrastructure.
>
> S.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aside from a couple of minor glitches, the Ni-Cad filled Wabbit seems to
be doing very well.
>>>> Three green lights <<<<
I commute 28 miles to Boulder from Denver every day. About a week ago, I
had a particularly efficient commute. The pack was warm. All the lights
were with me. Traffic was light. I followed a moving van for quite a few
miles. It was a warm night, so I didn't run the heater. All my ducks were
in a row. I came within a block to making it home with three green lights
showing on my E-meter! I only used 43 A-hrs (144 volt pack) to drive 28
miles. This is 221 W-hrs per mile in a car shaped like a brick traveling
(mostly) at 65 mph.
Of course today I used 73 A-hrs to make the same trip. Hit every light.
Wind was blowing hard against me. Heater on all the way because it was cold
outside.
>>>> Lucas Effect <<<<<<<
About two weeks ago, instead of going home from Boulder, I attended an
Electrathon kick-off meeting in Longmont, 14 miles in the wrong direction.
Well before the meeting, I checked with the meeting organizers, and they
assured me that there was a 120 volt outlet for me to use. Thus, I elected
to drive the Wabbit. While I knew it was possible for the NiCad pack to
make this extra mileage with a sip of electrons, I plugged in when I
arrived at the Community College where the meeting was being held.
It was not at all easy to find a plug. Steve Ciciora and I searched for
about 20 minutes before we found one. Steve found a Christmas decoration
plug behind the main sign, at the edge of the parking lot. After resetting
the GFI outlet, we managed to start dribbling some juice into the Wabbit.
It was only down 16 A-hrs (not bad for a 14 mile trip) so I turned the
PFC-20 down to an 8 amp charge rate. This was about 11 amps out of the outlet.
Steve and I checked on the Wabbit after about 20 minutes and everything
was fine.
When we came out of the 2 hour meeting, the entire parking lot was dark. I
thought to myself, "Gee, this is a night school. Why would they turn out
all the parking lot lights at 9:00 pm? What cheapskates."
When we got up to the Wabbit, Steve went over to pull the plug. Steve
said, "Man it really stinks over here. Come over here and check it out." At
that moment, I figured out why all the parking lot was so dark.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Details, details, details.
The four locations for zero are: two for forward operation and two for
reverse operation in a four brush motor.
Mechanically, this is with the brush exactly between the field poles. Since
the field piece bolts through the case, it can be relatively easy to find
the center. The brush contact point on the commutator is not always
perpendicular to the commutator face so we check it electrically to verify
the contact patch is 90 electrical degrees from the pole pieces. I say 90
electrical degrees because four brush motors need to be 45 mechanical
degrees from the pole pieces to be at neutral.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Motor timing (was: RE: dyno2)
> Umm 4 points and it's where your brushes should be for max efficientcy.
> At zero RPM these points can be measured. Once the motor starts to turn,
> and make power they get shifted because the field gets warped by the
> intractions of the Armature. We time race motors advanced so that the
> fields can be warped back into a acceptable poistion as the loads get
> applied.
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> I've read all of the posts about do it yourself
> torque sensing on a dyno. I need to build one
> for my setup at work. Is there a condensed version
> of something that actually works? Rich, did you get
> something going for low dollar?. If I don't figure
> something out I'm sure they can pay some Indian or
> Chinese engineers to do it cheaper. No insult to
> the foreign EV'rs, we just have to make a living
> in the USA.
> Rod
> P.S. If I had invested in Halliburton stock my
> future would be golden.
Yea I got a S-beam force sensor from Cooper intruments today,and I have
a tach sensor on the motor. These are the tools for doing a real Dyno.
I would recomend that you get a LOT smaller Force sensor.... Like a 100
Ftlbs one instead to this monster 1000 lbs one. I expect to break
things... and well a bit of over engineering can't hurt.
Wait for the busted parts photos.... they can't be to far out in the
future.
Oh yea the Gp.. that's current history, and the main reason why I am
doing the Dyno right now.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on pollux)
Found virus WORM_NETSKY.D in file your_website.pif
The file is deleted.
---------------------------------------------------------
See the attached file for details.
------------------ Virus Warning Message (on pollux)
your_website.pif is removed from here because it contains a virus.
---------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A photo is at http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Sbeam.jpg
It can be accessed through the Manzanita download page at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: Home made dynos with torque sensors
> Rod Hower wrote:
> >
> > I've read all of the posts about do it yourself
> > torque sensing on a dyno. I need to build one
> > for my setup at work. Is there a condensed version
> > of something that actually works? Rich, did you get
> > something going for low dollar?. If I don't figure
> > something out I'm sure they can pay some Indian or
> > Chinese engineers to do it cheaper. No insult to
> > the foreign EV'rs, we just have to make a living
> > in the USA.
> > Rod
> > P.S. If I had invested in Halliburton stock my
> > future would be golden.
>
>
> Yea I got a S-beam force sensor from Cooper intruments today,and I have
> a tach sensor on the motor. These are the tools for doing a real Dyno.
> I would recomend that you get a LOT smaller Force sensor.... Like a 100
> Ftlbs one instead to this monster 1000 lbs one. I expect to break
> things... and well a bit of over engineering can't hurt.
>
> Wait for the busted parts photos.... they can't be to far out in the
> future.
> Oh yea the Gp.. that's current history, and the main reason why I am
> doing the Dyno right now.
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did you have to buy them a new sign or a new transformer?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:38 PM
Subject: Green Emeter, Lucus Effect - Wabbit Weport
> When we got up to the Wabbit, Steve went over to pull the plug. Steve
> said, "Man it really stinks over here. Come over here and check it out."
At
> that moment, I figured out why all the parking lot was so dark.
>
>
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<Did you have to buy them a new sign or a new transformer?>>
...or did you just wipe all the prints and beat a hasty retreat?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Saturday, February 28, 2004, at 08:10 AM, Michael Hurley wrote:
At 11:02 AM -0800 on 2/27/04, Lee Hart wrote:
They've been discontinued. Besides, the programs allowed for the
'bricks' was rather severely limited by the software that ran on the
PC.
However, several groups have 'hacked' the brick's micro, and wrote
their
own development system to support it.
Then there was the mild amusement that the software was Windows only.
The only reason this was odd is that the original software as written
by MIT was for PC, Mac, and (I think) UN*X. You could buy the older
software direct from MIT for a while, but Lego refused to support it.
If you're talking about ROBOLAB, you can still get it from Pitsco Lego
Dacta. (Long link warning)
http://www.pldstore.com/pld/
catalog.cfm?dest=itempg&itemid=1264&secid=9&linkon=subsection&linkid=45
IIRC it's based on National Instruments' LabVIEW. It's available for
Windows and Mac.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sunday, February 29, 2004, at 11:17 AM, Mike Chancey wrote:
Hi folks,
It has been a long long road, and about a bizzillion key strokes, but
today I just added entry number 500 to the EV Photo Album.
Congratulations, Mike!
I want to thank you for the work you've done on the EV Album. It's a
fantastic resource, and I would never have started my EV project if I
hadn't been able to browse through it.
And thanks to everyone who has posted their pictures and experiences,
on the EV Album and elsewhere on the web. You really make a difference.
Sincerely,
Doug
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:14 PM
Subject: Home made dynos with torque sensors
Snip!
> Rod
> P.S. If I had invested in Halliburton stock my
> future would be golden.
Hi Rod;
Hallyburton? Ah Poo! I have some from my Dad's inheratance. Hasn't done
anything, yet. I REALLY had some hope for my Bolder stock, I think that it
is worth 2 cents, after 700 bux a few years I poured into it after seeing
Bill Dubes's bike rip off a 153 in the quaerter at Woodburn.
Now you know WHY Bolder went bust! The rest of the story<g>!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon "Sheer" Pullen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold
weather fuel cell)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:53 AM
> Subject: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold weather
> fuel cell)
>
>
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > I have a 168v pack in my Sparrow, and with a 240v feed and PFC-50
> > > charger, I
> > > can recharge in as little as 20-25 minutes. But that's for a pack
> > > with about
> > > 20-25 miles per charge range at freeway speed.
> >
> > That's not bad.
> >
> > Is there anything bigger than a PFC-50? I was thinking an electric
> > "filling station" could get an industrial power feed, 408V or 440V or
> > whatever that usual voltage is, and be able to deliver hundreds of amps
> > at once at any typical pack voltage (maybe even charge more than one
> > car at the same time), providing the batteries can handle it. If the
> > EV market was to be scaled up, such services would be necessary IMO.
>
> The PFC chargers can be stacked provided that they are either isolated
with
> a iso transformer or on the same leg.
>
> And yes, I think that 'gas stations' for electric cars would be a
neccesary
> part of a large-scale electrical infrastructure.
>
> S.
> Hi All;
Good point, Sheer! A "Gas " station could have a celler full of
submarine size cells for the ultimate Dump Charge, could charge up off the
grid all night, get a cheaper rate from the local Edison plant. If you KNEW
that you could get a charge most EVerywhere, it sure could help EV's get
started in towns. The massive power jumper cables and plugs used by Amtrak,
and other Pass. RR outfits would be ideal for dump charging. As they are
standardised, but they wouldn't be outragious pricing, for charging. A stron
g person could plug one of these into a receptable on his car, we do it all
the time at the RR. They carry several hundred amps@ 480 volts, all the car
lighting, AC and heating, EVen yur laptop, ifya plug it in on the train<g>!
This , was a failing of the first EV's 100 years ago, Electric power just
wasn't EVerywhere, cept the cities, and like today, no standardation of
voltages or plugs, or nice packaged PFC line of on board chargers.In the
book " Taking Charge" by Michael Schiffer,good historical read, he brought
up a buncha points as to WHY EV's failed the first time around. Charging
infrastructure being a biggie. And , of course, crappy batteries that made
our offerings today look damn good. Edison cells did some impressive range
runs back then, NY to Philly on one charge, albiet at 15-20 mpg. for 90
miles. We all could do that well, today, @ 20 mph, but wouldn't wanta, By
the time that decent batteries started coming on line gas cars were being
fitted with self starters, and were darn FASTER than EV's, anyhow.After the
Great War, it was all over, anyhow everybody had a Ford or knew somebody
that did. The Trolley era came to an end pretty much in the CT and New
England area, by the twenties. You can still find the old right a way, and
bridge abutments, this time of year in the winter landscape, old carbarns
and power houses survive today.Many trolley rightaways were recycled into
power lines, ironicly, in this area.
'Nuff history stuff. Many thanks for the Rabbbit trouble shooting
suggestions, guys! Warn, nice weather were having will give it a go!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon Mar 1, 2004 6:53 pm
Subject: Grid-powered "dump charging" (was RE: Honda Produces cold weather fuel cell)
>--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I have a 168v pack in my Sparrow, and with a 240v feed and PFC-50
>> charger, I
>> can recharge in as little as 20-25 minutes. But that's for a pack
>> with about
>> 20-25 miles per charge range at freeway speed.
> That's not bad.
> Is there anything bigger than a PFC-50? I was thinking an electric
> "filling station" could get an industrial power feed, 408V or 440V or
> whatever that usual voltage is, and be able to deliver hundreds of amps
> at once at any typical pack voltage (maybe even charge more than one
> car at the same time), providing the batteries can handle it. If the
> EV market was to be scaled up, such services would be necessary IMO.
> [...]
http://www.miljobil.no/bulletin/utg0001/biler.html
The picture in section "Ladestasjoner" shows a fast charging device for french EVs
(Citroen, Peugeot, Renault) installed in Norway.
Those EVs have NiCd batteries, a typical range of 50-70 miles and can be fast charged
in 25 minutes.
They all use a standardized "Marechal" connector which is suitable both for normal (at
any 230V/16A socket) and fast charging.
Only a few of these stations are installed in some european countries.
No EVs, "no demand"...
Regards, Jens
COMEDY HILFT!
Am 26.M�rz 2004 ist wieder RED NOSE DAY! Machen auch Sie unter dem Motto
"Haare rot f�r Kinder in Not" etwas Verr�cktes f�r einen guten Zweck!
Infos unter www.rednoseday.de
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the picture, unfortunately the sensor
is sitting on top of the price.
How much did you pay for this sensor?
Thanks,
Rod
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A photo is at
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Sbeam.jpg
>
> It can be accessed through the Manzanita download
> page at
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Home made dynos with torque sensors
>
>
> > Rod Hower wrote:
> > >
> > > I've read all of the posts about do it yourself
> > > torque sensing on a dyno. I need to build one
> > > for my setup at work. Is there a condensed
> version
> > > of something that actually works? Rich, did you
> get
> > > something going for low dollar?. If I don't
> figure
> > > something out I'm sure they can pay some Indian
> or
> > > Chinese engineers to do it cheaper. No insult
> to
> > > the foreign EV'rs, we just have to make a living
> > > in the USA.
> > > Rod
> > > P.S. If I had invested in Halliburton stock my
> > > future would be golden.
> >
> >
> > Yea I got a S-beam force sensor from Cooper
> intruments today,and I have
> > a tach sensor on the motor. These are the tools
> for doing a real Dyno.
> > I would recomend that you get a LOT smaller Force
> sensor.... Like a 100
> > Ftlbs one instead to this monster 1000 lbs one. I
> expect to break
> > things... and well a bit of over engineering can't
> hurt.
> >
> > Wait for the busted parts photos.... they can't be
> to far out in the
> > future.
> > Oh yea the Gp.. that's current history, and the
> main reason why I am
> > doing the Dyno right now.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> > www.manzanitamicro.com
> > 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:54 PM
Subject: 100,000km in Th!nk City EV
> I just received the following from Knut Abrahamsen
> in Norway, celebrating Oyvind Lunde's milestone
> of 100,000km in his Th!nk City on the original
> pack of NiCds. I guess Honda didn't read this... ;)
> "And they don't work in cold weather."
> Honda on BEVs
>
Hi EVerybody;
What a heartwarming story! Best part Knut doesn't hafta worry about his
lease from Fraud, I mean Ford, being up anytime soon.Bet it's a darn site
colder in Norway in the winter than Connecticut, too? Seems like the Nice
Folks in Scandinavia just go about their lives, with EV's as it suits their
fancy, quietly running ones light years ahead of us here in USA.Same in
France, too, where you can buy an EV. I guess I could go to Norway and bring
an EV home, A Think? They maybe NATSA Crash approved from their Non
marketing daze with Ford.. HMMMM? A dealer opportunity? All it takes is
cash, I guess, an an in with the right Gov. Agencies.
Maybe with a regeme change in Washington, when the time comes?
Seeya at the Think Dealer<g>!
Bob
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> > From: "KNUT ABRAHAMSEN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Nick Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: 100 000 km in a Think
> > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:06:06 +0100
> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
> > X-Aplus-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP
> > for more information
> > X-Aplus-MailScanner: Found to be clean
> > X-Aplus-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin
> > (score=0.101,
> > required 1, HTML_FONT_BIG 0.10, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00)
> >
> > Hello Nick,
> > Your fellow president, Oyvind Lunde, president of the
> > Norwegian EV Ass. Norstart,
> > today, March 1st, passed 100 000 km in his Think car,
> > and that is with the original NiCd batteries.
> >
> > If you would like to read a little more about Oyvind, you
> > can take a look at
> >
> > http://www.evguide.nu/100000.html
> >
> > and his mailaddress is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Take a look on
> >
> > http://www.apve.pt/conteudo_index/2004eet/exhibition.asp
> >
> > and http://www.thinkev.com/uk/press.html
> >
> > You are welcome to forward this news to the Think ?
> group.
> > Best regards
> > Knut Abrahamsen
> > www.evguide.nu
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Dr Nick Carter,
> Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA
> 95405 USA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
> http://www.npcimaging.com
>
> Th!nk City EV driver & President, North Bay Electric Auto
> Association
> "Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
>
> ***************************************************************
> ** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD
> **
> ** 55 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from
> $18.95! **
> ** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook
> **
> ** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller,
> etc. **
> ** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock
> **
> ***************************************************************
>
>
--- End Message ---
