EV Digest 3392
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Anglia
by "Diana Trevino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Zinc fuel cells
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: a story about Trojan batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Anglia
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Anglia
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Peukert Number for Orbitals and heat tape update
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Zinc fuel cells
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Anglia
by "Triumph_TR4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Anglia
by "Diana Trevino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Anglia
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: PFC Series Chargers on Inverter
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) AD: Website Updated.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Grizzly repair/Dave Luiz
by Andrew Oxner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Anglia
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Anglia
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) New online EV community offers better services
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: New online EV community offers better services
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: z1k cooling
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: z1k cooling
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New online EV community offers better services
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Zinc fuel cells
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New online EV community offers better services
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Zinc fuel cells
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Isolated Single Stage PFC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Zinc fuel cells
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) New player in EVs coming
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: New player in EVs coming
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone ever converted an Anglia or heard of anyone doing so?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Untill the Zinc fuel cell guys (or a Rudman/Otmar type) makes a personal
charging/refueling machine this system (which is a proven technology) is
worthless to us isolated EV users. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When my batteries were overcharged it took 24 hours to cool them off.
Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:46 PM
Subject: a story about Trojan batteries
> i used to work at the local airport at a fancy FBO(fixed base operator)
> there was a floor matching that we used it was 48 Volt and used a trojan
> batteries, some fool hooked it up to the 36 Volt charger when they left
work
> at 9pm. i showed up to work at 4:45am the next morning. when i walked in
the
> hanger it stunk like someone had spilled a lavatory in one of the jets. so
i
> was looking around and saw steam shooting out the top of the batteries
well
> i was scared to un plug it for fear of sparks(not knowing if it was
shooting
> hydrogen or what) so i turned off the breaker and opened the doors to the
> hanger. i also got some rubber gloves and pushed the floor cleaner
outside.
> 3 hours later when't he mechanics got there it was still to hot to touch
and
> it had splashed battery acid all over the floor. anyway ill summarize the
> rest of the story,
>
> 2 days of cleaning .
> batteries flushed and refilled with fresh distilled water.
>
> floor machine works grate and is still working 6mounths later.....
>
> could have burned down a 3 million dollar building with 45 million in
> planes(at least)
>
> falcon 2000
> extra 300
> cessna 182
> 2 gliders
> beach 18
> falcon 900
> Cessna citation 3
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Trevino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:51 PM
Subject: Anglia
> Anyone ever converted an Anglia or heard of anyone doing so?
Which Anglia?
E93A?
100E?
120E?
105E?
Ford, or not?
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
um, what is an "Anglia"?
Google hasn't helped me much.
Diana Trevino wrote:
Anyone ever converted an Anglia or heard of anyone doing so?
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't bother to try to determine Puekert's number by testing and
calculation. If you were satisfied with how you e-meter worked with
Optimas, use the same setup with the Orbitals. Optimas and Orbitals
are almost identical internally and there's no reason to expect a
different Puekert coefficient. And it's not easy to accurately find a
good Puekert's number for your situation by measurement and calculation.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Peukert Number for Orbitals and heat tape update
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Have recently replaced Optimas with Orbitals 34 DC Marine (Blue Tops)
> > in my Delectric Sol. I looked through the Orbital specs and wrote
> > emails to them asking about Peukert number to put into my emeter.
> > Haven't heard anything. I cannot find this info in EVDL archives.
>
> Your best bet is to measure it yourself. Manufacturer's specs often
> exaggerate.
>
> Basically, you need to measure the amphours at two different discharge
> currents. Try to use currents that you actually use in your EV, like 25
> amps and 100 amps. From this, you can calculate the Peukert value from
> the formula in the E-meter manual.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 5, 2004, at 4:36 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Untill the Zinc fuel cell guys (or a Rudman/Otmar type) makes a
personal
charging/refueling machine this system (which is a proven technology)
is
worthless to us isolated EV users. Lawrence Rhodes....
Very true, and the Metallic Power guys have one in the works. It's a
110V wall-plugable unit into which one puts the used fuel canister. In
about 8 - 10 hours the zinc oxide has been electrolysed and the oxygen
released back in to the atmosphere, leaving the zinc pellets behind.
It's pretty cool, actually. You can do the whole thing as a largely
closed loop, with the user never coming in contact with the Zi/KOH or
ZiO/KOH mixtures. The cell uses the zinc and the reclamator reclaims
it. They claim 98+ percent fuel recyclability. They also have a fuel
pump-like unit in design. In this version, the vehicle would pull up
and the driver would plug the nozzle in. The ZiO/KOH would be pumped
out of the vehicle's holding tank while the fresh Zi/KOH is being
pumped into it's fuel tank. The pump then stores the ZiO/KOH in a
reclamation tank for electrolysis. Once the oxygen is removed, Zi/KOH
is transferred to the outgoing tank to be pumped into the next vehicle.
The pump is a stand-alone unit that needs only an industrial
three-phase plug-in to work.
Of course, all of this is (as far as I can tell) mostly theoretical so
far. Metallic Power do seem to have the electrolysing reclamator system
working, however. Its installed in the stationary fuel cells they're
selling now.
_________________________________________________
Michael Hurley Digital Print Specialist
AlphaGraphics, Inc. (901) 681-9909
1195 Ridgeway Rd. (901) 761-2139 FAX
Memphis, TN 38119 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.philseed.com/fordanglia59.html
Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Anglia
> um, what is an "Anglia"?
> Google hasn't helped me much.
>
>
> Diana Trevino wrote:
> > Anyone ever converted an Anglia or heard of anyone doing so?
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A little bity English car. 1600 lbs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Anglia
> um, what is an "Anglia"?
> Google hasn't helped me much.
>
>
> Diana Trevino wrote:
> > Anyone ever converted an Anglia or heard of anyone doing so?
> >
>
>
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> 1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My neighbor owned a 105e that I would have loved to buy and convert.
Unfortunately, he sold it to someone else. <sigh>
I think the only worry with those would be "where do I put the
batteries?"
On Mar 5, 2004, at 1:51 PM, Diana Trevino wrote:
Anyone ever converted an Anglia or heard of anyone doing so?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > The PFC20s and 30s need about 25 watts of 15 volts, that's logic and
> > the FANS... If you use a DC/DC (to power this) you need 25 watts OK?
> > It need to be 15.00 volts +/- 0.2 volts and it needs to be filtered
> > and smooth, as smooth as you can get. The neg of this supply is
> > connected to Battery Neg, so isolation is a MUST.
>
> I would expect that if the input power is so bad that the PFC's internal
> DC/DC won't work, then you are *really* going to have problems using
> that power for charging. Rich, isn't your 15v supply just a standard
> 'universal input' non-PFC switcher? If so, it should work with power so
> bad that the PFC stage can't even use it.
>
> > Lee is right about spikey power, the little inverters just are not
> > that clean, and/or don't react as fast as the PFC drive circuits.
>
> Here's what I suspect to be the problem: A perfect PFC input looks
> exactly like a resistive load. Voltage and current in-phase and exactly
> proportional regardless of input voltage. The 'fast' control loop in the
> PFC creates this effect by forcing instantaneous current to be precisely
> proportional to instantaneous voltage. The 'slow' control loop adjusts
> the apparent resistance to get the desired power output.
>
> But, both of these control loops assume you are feeding in 60 Hz. If
> there are high frequency components (like a square wave), then the
> 'fast' control loop cannot change conditions fast enough. That means the
> input *won't* look resistive. I think Unitrode quoted 400 Hz as the max
> freq. for the fast loop, and a square wave inverter will have frequency
> components way past 10 KHz.
>
> What I think this means is that the inverter will see a very peculiar
> non-resistive load. A square wave input voltage could produce severe
> ringing and oveshoot in the current waveform as the 'fast' loop first
> responds too slow to the voltage step, and then overcompensates in
> trying to bring the peak current back down in line.
>
> Many of the older PFC circuit didn't even have this 'fast' control loop.
> Their PFC was not as good, but still 0.95 or better. You'll have to read
> the appnotes on the UC3854 to see how to do this. With a square wave
> input, this would probably mean the current input was a sort-of sinewave
> even if the input voltage was a square wave. This is probably fine in
> this application.
>
> > The inverter thing is somehow the inverter drops off, and the house
> > power supply crashes, then this becomes a loop.
>
> I'd guess that the inverter does something like detect peak output
> current, and shut down if its limit is exceeded. The PFC draws this peak
> current by accident when the voltage changes too quickly. Inverter shuts
> down, then restarts. Cycle repeats.
>
> > What I would try is a stifening cap (John Wayland esque) on the
> > input of the inverter, and massive input cables, then loading the
> > inverter to 1200 watts, and making sure the basic system can stand
> > a honest 1200 watt draw with a resistor load bank.
>
> Good advice. That will tell you if the inverter is working correctly and
> anywhere near able to meet specs.
>
> > If this is solid... then try the PFC charger on the output. Then add
> > a Ferro transformer if needed, or twin filter chokes on each AC leg
> > (common mode choke).
>
> A ferroresonant transformer will almost certainly work. But, it is a
> *heavy* chunk of iron!
>
> Series inductors will help if high peak currents are the problem (what I
> described above). But if *voltage* spikes are the problem, inductors
> will make it worse. If that turns out to be the case, capacitors across
> the output of the inverter might help.
>
> More likely, an LC filter (both a series inductor and a capacitor) may
> be needed; this will filter out higher-frequency harmonics generated by
> the square wave. But, it will also make your PFC correction useless.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
It looks like a massive inductor was the solution.
I still would like to know about how many Micro heneries are needed??
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
About once a year I update my website, whether it needs it or not. I
guess it's a bit like washing my car. :-) It seems that time has come
and it really needed it.
The update is only minor since I'm so busy trying to fill orders, but
it includes information on the new Hairball 2 interface and a
completely updated owners manual. Some other day I'll add frames and
make the site look better.
The Hairball 2 interface replaces the old Hairball and Precharger in
one combined unit. I've shipped a few of them now so I figured I
better update the site with the new manuals. The old manuals are also
archived on the site for those of you with the older styles.
I've been hinting at the new Hairball 2 recently, and since I ran out
of cases for the older style, it is now standard equipment. Pictures
and specs for it are now on my site.
You can see all this and more at http://www.CafeElectric.com/
If you find any bad links, I'd be happy to hear of them.
Thanks!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
My Auburn Grizzly controller croaked (dead throttle
input again) and I'm trying to reach Dave Luiz. He
was able to repair the thing in the past. Does anyone
have contact information besides email for him? I
have not been able to reach him from the address on
his ev ranger website.
Also, any other ideas to repair the Grizz would be
welcome. It will need a replacement programmed
microprocessor to get it going again. The internal
zener diode to ground on the analog throttle input
inside the micro is shorted. Fortunately, all of the
power electronics are fine.
Thanks Much,
Andrew
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> http://www.philseed.com/fordanglia59.html
>
> Darrell
Wow Darrell, from that pic an Anglia looks just like a Triumph Herald I
almost bought a while back. I thought then that it would be a neat
conversion. I coulda swore I had an Anglia years ago that didn't look
anything like that. It looked more like a mini Rolls Royce, bustle trunk and
all. Seen them in english movies used as taxis. Hmm, wetware must be getting
flakey. David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahh, I see now Darrell. I went back to the site a bit and apparently Anglias
have worn a # of bodies over the years. Mine was just a bit older than the
one first up on the site (the one that resembles a Hearld). It sure looked
good with steamroller slicks and motorwheel flys. DC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Triumph_TR4" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Anglia
> http://www.philseed.com/fordanglia59.html
>
> Darrell
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 3:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Anglia
>
>
> > um, what is an "Anglia"?
> > Google hasn't helped me much.
> >
> >
> > Diana Trevino wrote:
> > > Anyone ever converted an Anglia or heard of anyone doing so?
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am very happy to announce the grand opening of the new Voltage
Forum, an advanced online EV forum community at:
http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
The current online EV community has some basic limitations. Groups
like the EV Discussion List and the Zappy group have grown so large
that the daily traffic has become daunting to many would-be
participants. Also the lack of subgroups means that all discussion
has to occur on a single channel which makes matters difficult for
the user who is only interested in a small portion of the overall
discussion topics, not to mention the large amount of OT posting that
occurs under this older model.
The Voltage Forum has been designed to remedy this situation by
offering over 25 separate message boards covering nearly every
conceivable EV related topic backed up by a large commercial ISP and
the horsepower to handle hundreds of thousands of participants.
We are not trying to take anything over, nor are we trying to control
anything. We simply believe that this is the best model to support
the EV community at large and are putting our money where our mouth
is by creating and hosting the model for the public good.
While the forums are hosted by V is for Voltage magazine, they are a
public service global online EV forum community and all are invited
to participate. We especially encourage all EV related publications
and organizations to participate and promote themselves. We invite
all current EV forum and discussion list moderators as well as EV
organization leaders to moderate on the appropriate boards in the new
forum. We invite any and all suggestions on how we can make this
forum accessible and inclusive to the widest number of participants.
Tired of being told that you can't post political EV content? Now you
can on the "EV advocacy & political issues" board. Totally focused on
the hard tech of motors, controllers, batteries, and chargers? We
have 9 boards in our technology section alone. Just interested in
electric cars, escooters, electric motorcycles, or high speed maglev
trains? We have specialized forums for all of these topics. We've got
an EV forum for every subject you can think of, and if we don't, then
we'll probably add it for you upon request.
The idea is that we are stronger together than we are apart. This new
format and structure allows for a very high overall volume of
participants and posts, without overwhelming any particular channel
or subject. Participants can focus on particular areas of interest
without being deluged with data on all the other topics.
Our forum software is some of the most advanced available. It allows
for customization options such as Avatars as well as functions such
as "view new posts since my last visit". You can track topics, easily
email a topic or view a nice "printer ready" version for clean
printing without the forum background graphics. You can also download
any topic in HTML or DOC form for easy storage and later reference.
The forum also maintains a nice live activities and events calendar.
We've even replaced all the boring "smilies" with all kinds of
interesting looking avatars and post icons for you to choose from.
Over 150 in all. Don't see one you like? Just upload your own!
So please participate, encourage your friends to check us out, and
let's work together to make the Voltage Forums the most useful online
EV community on the planet! See you in the Voltage Forum!
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour voicemail - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't seen much activity in the EV Source forum, although I'll be
using it for somewhat of a personal diary of research, etc.
I like what has been done with the Voltage Forum, i.e. using top-notch
forum software and planning many topics. Hopefully it will get some
support.
-Ryan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am very happy to announce the grand opening of the new Voltage
Forum, an advanced online EV forum community at:
http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
The current online EV community has some basic limitations. Groups
like the EV Discussion List and the Zappy group have grown so large
that the daily traffic has become daunting to many would-be
participants. Also the lack of subgroups means that all discussion
has to occur on a single channel which makes matters difficult for
the user who is only interested in a small portion of the overall
discussion topics, not to mention the large amount of OT posting that
occurs under this older model.
The Voltage Forum has been designed to remedy this situation by
offering over 25 separate message boards covering nearly every
conceivable EV related topic backed up by a large commercial ISP and
the horsepower to handle hundreds of thousands of participants.
We are not trying to take anything over, nor are we trying to control
anything. We simply believe that this is the best model to support
the EV community at large and are putting our money where our mouth
is by creating and hosting the model for the public good.
While the forums are hosted by V is for Voltage magazine, they are a
public service global online EV forum community and all are invited
to participate. We especially encourage all EV related publications
and organizations to participate and promote themselves. We invite
all current EV forum and discussion list moderators as well as EV
organization leaders to moderate on the appropriate boards in the new
forum. We invite any and all suggestions on how we can make this
forum accessible and inclusive to the widest number of participants.
Tired of being told that you can't post political EV content? Now you
can on the "EV advocacy & political issues" board. Totally focused on
the hard tech of motors, controllers, batteries, and chargers? We
have 9 boards in our technology section alone. Just interested in
electric cars, escooters, electric motorcycles, or high speed maglev
trains? We have specialized forums for all of these topics. We've got
an EV forum for every subject you can think of, and if we don't, then
we'll probably add it for you upon request.
The idea is that we are stronger together than we are apart. This new
format and structure allows for a very high overall volume of
participants and posts, without overwhelming any particular channel
or subject. Participants can focus on particular areas of interest
without being deluged with data on all the other topics.
Our forum software is some of the most advanced available. It allows
for customization options such as Avatars as well as functions such
as "view new posts since my last visit". You can track topics, easily
email a topic or view a nice "printer ready" version for clean
printing without the forum background graphics. You can also download
any topic in HTML or DOC form for easy storage and later reference.
The forum also maintains a nice live activities and events calendar.
We've even replaced all the boring "smilies" with all kinds of
interesting looking avatars and post icons for you to choose from.
Over 150 in all. Don't see one you like? Just upload your own!
So please participate, encourage your friends to check us out, and
let's work together to make the Voltage Forums the most useful online
EV community on the planet! See you in the Voltage Forum!
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour voicemail - 866-872-8901
--
Need high performance EV stuff? Visit http://www.evsource.com
<http://www.interwebber.com/redirects/evsource/index.html?id=4487643>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > >
> How about that aluminum Windmill/ radiator???
I'm looking now for somthing to make a casting of ,
>
> Ot's got so much copper in tha t thing, that it takes a LOT of amps for
> a Long time for the copper to get even tepid.
I think this is what's happening , as so far I haven't made any long trips
but will have some kind of radiator on it before I do. ,
I of course will find
> those limits..... on the Dyno.
will be waiting to hear how many degrees to advance a 9" for regular 156v
driving . ( the new numbers)
> That is if I can pry my Zilla out of the GP, and Rod's hands.
Glad to see your spending some of that charger money on more EV parts :-)
Steve Clunn
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> I don't know if you are running water or WEG in your
> cooling loop, but if you are running water through a
> fuel pump, you should expect greatly reduced life.
> Most of those fuel pumps rely on the gas to do some
> internal lubrication, and water won't cut it. Glycol
> is probably better, although i would check material
> compatability if I were you.
>
> ~fortunat
This is one that works with a diafram , but the glycol sounds like a good
idea . thanks
>
> --- 1sclunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: z1k cooling
> >
> >
> > > How big a radiator are you using? How big a pump?
> > Or is the 10' of hose
> > > the radiator?
> > >
> > For now I set it up using an old electric gas pump
> > ( the one that looks
> > like a block) and just the 10 foot hose , drove it
> > around the block then
> > felt the hose's for heat , not even warm more laps
> > , still cool even after
> > some hard driving. maybe the 10 feet of hose is
> > working as a radiator , Yes
> > a radiator of some sort will be added . I'll put
> > somthing in there soon but
> > the water hoses don't even get warm , I think It
> > would take some good
> > batteries to warm up the water .
> > SteveClunn
> >
> > >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken,
Your message board link doesn't work.
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am very happy to announce the grand opening of the
> new Voltage
> Forum, an advanced online EV forum community at:
>
> http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
>
> The current online EV community has some basic
> limitations. Groups
> like the EV Discussion List and the Zappy group have
> grown so large
> that the daily traffic has become daunting to many
> would-be
> participants. Also the lack of subgroups means that
> all discussion
> has to occur on a single channel which makes matters
> difficult for
> the user who is only interested in a small portion
> of the overall
> discussion topics, not to mention the large amount
> of OT posting that
> occurs under this older model.
>
> The Voltage Forum has been designed to remedy this
> situation by
> offering over 25 separate message boards covering
> nearly every
> conceivable EV related topic backed up by a large
> commercial ISP and
> the horsepower to handle hundreds of thousands of
> participants.
>
> We are not trying to take anything over, nor are we
> trying to control
> anything. We simply believe that this is the best
> model to support
> the EV community at large and are putting our money
> where our mouth
> is by creating and hosting the model for the public
> good.
>
> While the forums are hosted by V is for Voltage
> magazine, they are a
> public service global online EV forum community and
> all are invited
> to participate. We especially encourage all EV
> related publications
> and organizations to participate and promote
> themselves. We invite
> all current EV forum and discussion list moderators
> as well as EV
> organization leaders to moderate on the appropriate
> boards in the new
> forum. We invite any and all suggestions on how we
> can make this
> forum accessible and inclusive to the widest number
> of participants.
>
> Tired of being told that you can't post political EV
> content? Now you
> can on the "EV advocacy & political issues" board.
> Totally focused on
> the hard tech of motors, controllers, batteries, and
> chargers? We
> have 9 boards in our technology section alone. Just
> interested in
> electric cars, escooters, electric motorcycles, or
> high speed maglev
> trains? We have specialized forums for all of these
> topics. We've got
> an EV forum for every subject you can think of, and
> if we don't, then
> we'll probably add it for you upon request.
>
> The idea is that we are stronger together than we
> are apart. This new
> format and structure allows for a very high overall
> volume of
> participants and posts, without overwhelming any
> particular channel
> or subject. Participants can focus on particular
> areas of interest
> without being deluged with data on all the other
> topics.
>
> Our forum software is some of the most advanced
> available. It allows
> for customization options such as Avatars as well as
> functions such
> as "view new posts since my last visit". You can
> track topics, easily
> email a topic or view a nice "printer ready" version
> for clean
> printing without the forum background graphics. You
> can also download
> any topic in HTML or DOC form for easy storage and
> later reference.
> The forum also maintains a nice live activities and
> events calendar.
> We've even replaced all the boring "smilies" with
> all kinds of
> interesting looking avatars and post icons for you
> to choose from.
> Over 150 in all. Don't see one you like? Just upload
> your own!
>
> So please participate, encourage your friends to
> check us out, and
> let's work together to make the Voltage Forums the
> most useful online
> EV community on the planet! See you in the Voltage
> Forum!
>
> -Ken Trough
> Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> 24 hour AIM - ktrough
> 24 hour voicemail - 866-872-8901
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
On Mar 5, 2004, at 4:36 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Untill the Zinc fuel cell guys (or a Rudman/Otmar type) makes a personal
charging/refueling machine this system (which is a proven technology) is
worthless to us isolated EV users. Lawrence Rhodes....
Very true, and the Metallic Power guys have one in the works.
The ECE546 project by Feldpausch, Price, and Reuter has the following
info in a table:
kwh/ft^3 w/lb
PbA 2.55 72.7
NiMH 4.96 68.2
Li-ion 7.36 90.9
Zn-Air 1.84 22.7
It looks to me like the storage density of Zn-Air
stinks w.r.t. PbA. This is the big problem.
I'm not quite sure how to use w/lb. I would think
that this would indicate that Li-ion, with higher
power/lb would be able to produce high power output.
AFAIK, this is not true. Li-ion sags a lot
at high currents, right? Or is that just because
most Li-ion cells were designed for max capacity
at low currents... and they COULD be designed for
high current for short times... as long as they
don't catch on fire.;-)
Can anybody comment on this?
Frankly, if Zn-Air is BOTH HEAVIER and BULKIER
than PbA for driving an EV, it does not seem
like a good option for most of us.
NiMH does not look all that great in comparison
to Li-ion either. Why do the "hybrid" manufactures
like them? Is Li-ion to hard to manage (without fires
or explosions)? Do they have a hard time with
high regen-braking currents?
I still wonder about the voltage sag problems
with the non-PbA chemistry. Is it fairly
easy to build an inverter which can deal with
widely varying DC inputs, so it can still
deliver power when needed (even if efficiency
goes way down, and batteries heat up)?
Seems like a discussion of Zn-Air needs to compare
this technology to the more common ones.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's much too soon to know what this new forum will be like if and
when people start visiting and using it. It takes time for a new forum
to get started and grow. Ken, remind us in a month or two to
drop in and see what your new forum is doing.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:06 AM
Subject: New online EV community offers better services
> I am very happy to announce the grand opening of the new Voltage
> Forum, an advanced online EV forum community at:
>
> http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is another very interesting battery technology,
Has anybody looked into or heard about this one? It is
a system where the charge takes place in the
electrolyte rather than on the surface of the cells.
So one has only to exchange electrolyte to recharge.
http://www.vfuel.com.au/products.htm
Gadget
--- Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Hurley wrote:
> > On Mar 5, 2004, at 4:36 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> >> Untill the Zinc fuel cell guys (or a Rudman/Otmar
> type) makes a personal
> >> charging/refueling machine this system (which is
> a proven technology) is
> >> worthless to us isolated EV users. Lawrence
> Rhodes....
> >
> >
> > Very true, and the Metallic Power guys have one in
> the works.
>
> The ECE546 project by Feldpausch, Price, and Reuter
> has the following
> info in a table:
>
> kwh/ft^3 w/lb
> PbA 2.55 72.7
> NiMH 4.96 68.2
> Li-ion 7.36 90.9
> Zn-Air 1.84 22.7
>
> It looks to me like the storage density of Zn-Air
> stinks w.r.t. PbA. This is the big problem.
>
> I'm not quite sure how to use w/lb. I would think
> that this would indicate that Li-ion, with higher
> power/lb would be able to produce high power output.
> AFAIK, this is not true. Li-ion sags a lot
> at high currents, right? Or is that just because
> most Li-ion cells were designed for max capacity
> at low currents... and they COULD be designed for
> high current for short times... as long as they
> don't catch on fire.;-)
>
> Can anybody comment on this?
> Frankly, if Zn-Air is BOTH HEAVIER and BULKIER
> than PbA for driving an EV, it does not seem
> like a good option for most of us.
>
> NiMH does not look all that great in comparison
> to Li-ion either. Why do the "hybrid" manufactures
> like them? Is Li-ion to hard to manage (without
> fires
> or explosions)? Do they have a hard time with
> high regen-braking currents?
>
> I still wonder about the voltage sag problems
> with the non-PbA chemistry. Is it fairly
> easy to build an inverter which can deal with
> widely varying DC inputs, so it can still
> deliver power when needed (even if efficiency
> goes way down, and batteries heat up)?
>
> Seems like a discussion of Zn-Air needs to compare
> this technology to the more common ones.
> --
> Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> Albuquerque, NM |
> aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> >http://aaron.boim.com |
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> Single stage PFC is the Holy Grail of switchers. Jim Spangler has
> been working on this since the mid 80's and has finally perfected
> it and got a patent on it for ON Semiconductor. They now have demo
> boards from the APEC 04' Conference. The flyback topology is required
> for operation which limits operation to 200W, probably realistically
> 150W if you are going for class-B FCC emissions requirements. The
> main trick is to modulate the controller chip 120 hertz and maintain
> closed loop stability without the bulk DC cap in place. So as you get
> into the higher power requirements dual stage is still needed. With
> the lower RSdon Coolmos Infineon and STmicroelectronics MDmesh fets,
> power electronics size can be reduced further. I can forward to the
> ev'ers.
Sounds good, Mark. I'd like more details.
I built some isolated flyback single-stage chargers a few years ago.
There was no particular magic involved. I used the Motorola MC33261 PFC
switching regulator chip, MOSFET, and a planar transformer to get 300w
output. It was about 90% efficient.
Flybacks have noise problems, because the input and output current are
pulsing on/off at the switching frequency. What I was planning to do was
use multiple flybacks in parallel to get the desired power level, and
run them out of phase to even out the current pulsations. This is
basically what Vicor does on their modules.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 6, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Aaron Birenboim wrote:
The ECE546 project by Feldpausch, Price, and Reuter has the following
info in a table:
kwh/ft^3 w/lb
PbA 2.55 72.7
NiMH 4.96 68.2
Li-ion 7.36 90.9
Zn-Air 1.84 22.7
It looks to me like the storage density of Zn-Air
stinks w.r.t. PbA. This is the big problem.
Were they comparing solid bar or sheet Zi-Air or granulated/powdered
Zi-Air? Surface area has an awful lot to do with a fuel cell's ability
to convert fuel. What makes Metallic Power's system intriguing to me is
the fact they use a fine-grain Zi powder, increasing the surface area
many times over that of a single large piece or even a thin sheet.
_________________________________________________
Michael Hurley Digital Print Specialist
AlphaGraphics, Inc. (901) 681-9909
1195 Ridgeway Rd. (901) 761-2139 FAX
Memphis, TN 38119 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very interesting vapor:
Aircraft Maker Will Produce Electric Cars in 2006
[ Technology/IT ]
Posted by michael on Sat Mar 06, '04 12:05 AM
clarkie.mg writes "French aircraft maker Dassault has announced that
they will team up with Hydro-Quebec to produce an electric car, available
as of 2006. Hydro-Quebec will provide the lithium-metal-polymer (LMP)
battery and the wheel motor propulsion system. The car will be built in
partnership with a car specialist and sold in association with a large
automaker not yet found."
The car announcement (very thin):
http://207.107.238.62/en/produits/
LMP batteries:
http://www.avestor.com/automotiveev.ch2
Wheel motor:
http://www.tech-m4.com/eng/tm4transport/moto_wheelmotor/
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we
are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Mar 2004 at 11:56, Alan Batie wrote:
> The car will be built in
> partnership with a car specialist and sold in association with a large
> automaker not yet found."
Sigh. Sounds like the same story as countless others. They design a viable
product, but don't want to (or can't afford to) build or sell it. So they
make a large noise that sounds like "coming soon" in the hopes that some
existing with deep pockets will form a partnership with them.
Years ago, Solectria designed and prototyped the Sunrise, a well-optimized
midsize EV with a range of something like 265 miles. They never found a
manufacturing partner. Or perhaps I should say they never developed a
partnership that actually put the Sunrise into production.
More recently, ATTRD, a South Korean R&D company, developed the Parade (see
http://www.attrd.com/). AFAIK, they're still looking for someone willing to
put up the huge investment required to take this rather nice EV from
prototype to production.
The problem is that the corporations with enough money to make this happen
are highly averse to risk. They have stockholders who insist that they show
a profit every quarter, so they can't afford to look beyond the next three
months. They can't see any reason to invest in low-return disruptive
technology, when yet another SUV body can be slapped on an existing car or
truck design and sold for several thousands of dollars of profit per copy.
I doubt that it's any more likely that Dassault's EV will ever show up in
the auto showrooms. But we can hope!
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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We are a warlike people, and we love war.
-- Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute
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--- End Message ---
