EV Digest 3393
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: PFC Series Chargers on Inverter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) signoff ev
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Zinc fuel cells
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) New 48V Alltrax Controller - First ride
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: New online EV community offers better services
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) questions on ADC 9 IN
by "brian G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Orbital voltage?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Voltage Forum
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Voltage Forum
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fast charging
by "Tim Medeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Fast charging
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) California EV mandate
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: California EV mandate
by Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Fast charging
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Hello List!
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> It looks like a massive inductor was the solution.
A massive inductor might get it to charge, but it also defeats PFC
action. The input power factor the inverter sees will almost certainly
be lagging. All that means is that he can't get anywhere near full power
out of the inverter. (Assuming that it is possible to get rated power
out of the inverter under *any* load conditions :-)
> I still would like to know about how many Micro heneries are needed?
There is no way to predict the inductance of a transformer. The design
of a transformer is such that 'more' is always better, so there is no
upper limit. The tighter the laminations are stacked, the smaller the
air gaps between them, the higher the inductance. Your best bet is to
have him measure the AC voltage across the 'inductor' and AC current in
it; from this you can calculate the inductance.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I witnessed the record 1000 mile run on one charge at Alameda Naval Air
station in the late 90's. They circled the station many times over a three
day period. The Vehicle was simular to an NEV in shape and speed it had two
rows of seats with batteries under them. Very impressive. Not bulky or
heavy. Perfect for us for low power EV use. Not a Wayland item. You can't
draw big power unless you go high voltage which uses low amps. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Zinc fuel cells
> Here is another very interesting battery technology,
> Has anybody looked into or heard about this one? It is
> a system where the charge takes place in the
> electrolyte rather than on the surface of the cells.
> So one has only to exchange electrolyte to recharge.
>
>
> http://www.vfuel.com.au/products.htm
>
> Gadget
>
> --- Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Michael Hurley wrote:
> > > On Mar 5, 2004, at 4:36 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > >
> > >> Untill the Zinc fuel cell guys (or a Rudman/Otmar
> > type) makes a personal
> > >> charging/refueling machine this system (which is
> > a proven technology) is
> > >> worthless to us isolated EV users. Lawrence
> > Rhodes....
> > >
> > >
> > > Very true, and the Metallic Power guys have one in
> > the works.
> >
> > The ECE546 project by Feldpausch, Price, and Reuter
> > has the following
> > info in a table:
> >
> > kwh/ft^3 w/lb
> > PbA 2.55 72.7
> > NiMH 4.96 68.2
> > Li-ion 7.36 90.9
> > Zn-Air 1.84 22.7
> >
> > It looks to me like the storage density of Zn-Air
> > stinks w.r.t. PbA. This is the big problem.
> >
> > I'm not quite sure how to use w/lb. I would think
> > that this would indicate that Li-ion, with higher
> > power/lb would be able to produce high power output.
> > AFAIK, this is not true. Li-ion sags a lot
> > at high currents, right? Or is that just because
> > most Li-ion cells were designed for max capacity
> > at low currents... and they COULD be designed for
> > high current for short times... as long as they
> > don't catch on fire.;-)
> >
> > Can anybody comment on this?
> > Frankly, if Zn-Air is BOTH HEAVIER and BULKIER
> > than PbA for driving an EV, it does not seem
> > like a good option for most of us.
> >
> > NiMH does not look all that great in comparison
> > to Li-ion either. Why do the "hybrid" manufactures
> > like them? Is Li-ion to hard to manage (without
> > fires
> > or explosions)? Do they have a hard time with
> > high regen-braking currents?
> >
> > I still wonder about the voltage sag problems
> > with the non-PbA chemistry. Is it fairly
> > easy to build an inverter which can deal with
> > widely varying DC inputs, so it can still
> > deliver power when needed (even if efficiency
> > goes way down, and batteries heat up)?
> >
> > Seems like a discussion of Zn-Air needs to compare
> > this technology to the more common ones.
> > --
> > Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> > Albuquerque, NM |
> > aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> > >http://aaron.boim.com |
> >
>
>
> =====
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got my new controller this week and got to test it out for the first time
today. I replaced my Curtis 1204 275 amp model with an Alltrax 48V 400 amp
model http://www.alltraxinc.com/prod04.htm. It's very nice and seems to
perform as advertised. I programmed it before I put it in on, but barely
made any changes from the factory defaults. I set the throttle up and
throttle down adjustments a little bit quicker and changed it from a linear
to a progressive throttle ramp. Two of my main problems have now been
solved. It's no longer a dog off the line and I don't have trouble climbing
hills.
I haven't decided for sure what to do with my old controller. It still
works great and would have been fine on my motorcylce if I had it geared
differently, but I want to keep that top speed at 60mph and need to cart
around enough batteries for my 30-40 mile range, not to mention my own 250
pound carcass. At 48V the only way to do that is to keep my gear ratio high
enough on the top end and pump through more amps for acceleration. If you
think you might be interested in buying a used 36-48V Curtis for around $150
I might be interested in selling. It would be great for a go kart or a
lower weight or lower speed motorcycle. Contact me off list if you are
interested.
damon henry
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A participant at the new Voltage Forum has a question about ADC9"
motors. Specifically, can they handle more than the 156V max voltage
rating, and if so, do any modifications need to be made in order to
handle the extra voltage?
Application is an EV home project with a Z1K or Z2K controller.
http://tinyurl.com/3266y
Does it make sense to maximize the voltage for a home built runabout,
or
do you get more efficiency or reliability at a lower than max voltage?
Please respond at the URL if possible. If not, then I'll relay the
message.
Thanks for the assistance!
---------------------------------------------------
Please note that Voltage Forum has no control over the
contents of this message.
---------------------------------------------------
Regards,
The Voltage Forum team.
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Mar 2004 at 22:44, Ken Trough wrote:
> A participant at the new Voltage Forum has a question about ADC9"
> motors.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if he's gotten no answer to his question on
the forum, why doesn't the participant just post that question here himself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is the problem I have with having multiple forums - this is stupid,
guys! I want to see all comments, whether I delete them or not; because if I
don't, I m=ight miss something!! As long as everyone follows the EV List
charter, and information and questions are pertinent to electric vehicles,
we will all benefit.
Let's eliminate any extraneous forums and crossover, and keep it all here,
please!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
> On 6 Mar 2004 at 22:44, Ken Trough wrote:
>
> > A participant at the new Voltage Forum has a question about ADC9"
> > motors.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but if he's gotten no answer to his question
on
> the forum, why doesn't the participant just post that question here
himself?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I won't be going there any time soon - I like it all kept together in one
place (minus the political garbage!!)
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: New online EV community offers better services
> It's much too soon to know what this new forum will be like if and
> when people start visiting and using it. It takes time for a new forum
> to get started and grow. Ken, remind us in a month or two to
> drop in and see what your new forum is doing.
>
> Tom Shay
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:06 AM
> Subject: New online EV community offers better services
>
>
> > I am very happy to announce the grand opening of the new Voltage
> > Forum, an advanced online EV forum community at:
> >
> > http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
a question.
which set up would be better over all.
2 string of 12 batteries for a pack voltage of 144V
or
1 string of 24 batteries for a pack voltage of 288v
system will be DC of course and run a Zilla Controler (z1k or z2k, depending
on funds) with a ADC 9in.
which raises another qustions how are people running more then the
recomended 156v on there ADC 9in motors.
ps and finaly i was the one that posted on the fourm just to give it some
trafic and to see what kind of response i would get. so please at least on
my posts lets leave the fourm be the froum and the list bet the list (dont
mix)
brian G
_________________________________________________________________
Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar � includes FREE pop-up blocking!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
> On 6 Mar 2004 at 22:44, Ken Trough wrote:
>
> > A participant at the new Voltage Forum has a question about ADC9"
> > motors.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but if he's gotten no answer to his question
on
> the forum, why doesn't the participant just post that question here
himself?
>
I had the same thought myself. Of course, he should come to the source
rather
than post messages in an empty forum and have Ken or someone else relay
his questions here.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Simple answer: 129 to 131 depending on temperature.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Orbital voltage?
> hi
> i have 120 volt pack of orbitals. what should the
> resting voltage be when properly and fully charged?
> thanks
>
>
> --- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The best indicator of state of charge is the resting
> > voltage. This is not
> > available during operation. The vehicle must sit for
> > 24 hours to get a
> > reasonable reading.
> >
> > If what you want is the state of charge while
> > driving, it can be derived
> > from taking three measurements and using the values
> > to select a value from a
> > look up table or from equations derived from your
> > pack behavior. The two
> > most important readings are Pack Voltage and Pack
> > current. A less critical
> > reading is the Pack temperature.
> >
> > If you know the (temperature compensated) internal
> > resistance of the pack,
> > you can derive an approximation of the state of
> > charge from the equation:
> >
> > SOC (%) = ((V-(R*A))/N-12)*100
> >
> > Where:
> > V is the pack voltage
> > R is the pack resistance
> > A is the pack amperes (discharge is negative)
> > N is the number of 12 volt blocks
> >
> > The process is to compute the voltage drop across
> > the internal resistance
> > (R*A) and subtract it from the pack voltage V-(R*A)
> > to get the current
> > corrected pack Voltage. You then divide by the
> > number of blocks and subtract
> > the discharged block Voltage (V-(R*A))/N-12. You
> > then divide by the
> > difference in fully charged from fully discharged (1
> > volt not shown) and
> > multiply by 100 to get the percent charged.
> >
> > There are some sources of error:
> > 1. The resistance of PbA batteries goes up as they
> > discharge.
> > 2. The open circuit voltage goes up and the internal
> > resistance goes up with
> > decreasing temperature.
> > 3. The resistance goes up and open circuit voltage
> > goes down as a battery
> > ages.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:38 PM
> > Subject: Orbital voltage?
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I think I saw someone mention what I'm after, but
> > I can't find it in the
> > > archives (Gosh, I even looked for like 30
> > seconds!).
> > >
> > > What is the actual voltage of a charged Orbital?
> > It's higher than 12
> > > volts, right? What is the maximum voltage you'd
> > ever see out of an
> > > Orbital (or any 12 volt flooded or AGM)? I'm
> > designing a custom voltage
> > > sensing system that will interface with my dash
> > fuel gauge. The
> > > high-voltage signal will have to be isolated from
> > the 12 volt system,
> > > probably with an optocoupler. The 120 volt (in my
> > case) signal will be
> > > dropped to below 5 volts so I can analyze the
> > signal with a PIC. I'm
> > > thinking just a voltage divider with 2 resistors
> > will do the trick? The
> > > PIC will then output the correct signal to the
> > dash. Anyone done
> > > anything like this? Any suggestions? My digital
> > dash has about 14 bars
> > > on it.
> > >
> > > What is usually considered an "empty tank"? When
> > the voltage sags to
> > > 80% (96 volts for a 120 volt system)?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the help,
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is the problem I have with having multiple forums - this is
stupid, guys!
As long as everyone follows the EV List charter, and information and
questions are pertinent to electric vehicles, we will all benefit.
The EVDL and other larger single EV topic forums like the Zappy forum
have just about reached their maximum density and user participation.
Why? Because if too many posts happen on any one channel, people tend to
get overwhelmed. You like tech discussion, but others are interested in
both tech and EV politics for instance, or maybe advocacy. Having a mega
forum with multiple topics channels addresses this shortcomings of
narrow focus in the current forum designs. You are totally happy with
the EVDL, then great! But I see many users, overwhelmed by the list
traffic, trying to unsubscribe every week.
I am trying to support a model that does the most good for the most
people. That is what the Voltage Forum is all about. As the Voltage
Forum grows, some of the other, smaller forums will be absorbed. In the
long run, launching the Voltage Forum is a move to consolidate the
larger EV community, not dillute it.
I recognize that change is difficult for some, and I fully support the
existing forums, but we've got to plan for the future and we need a
space that supports tens if not hundreds of thousands of active
participants. The EVDL is too narrow in scope and cannot handle that
kind of traffic in any case.
So please be patient if you see the occasional crossover post. It won't
happen too often, and it really is for the good of the overall EV
community.
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken,
I don't mean to be negative but starting another EV forum calls to mind the
analogy of the wind and reeds. Individually reeds bend, in a bundle they
have great strength. I don't personally care for the political OT postings
but I find no great difficulty in just deleteing them unread, just like some
discussions that come up that I check out and that don't pertain to my
interests. Heck I occasionally launch an OT post over some new piece of
Junque I come across. I can tell you that I always am careful to label these
as OT and I cannot tell you how many times I have been thanked for bringing
this stuff to light. I count quite a few EVDLers among my customers. Makes
me feel that I am somehow involved with their projects as well and that I
had a slight hand in their success'. Of more importance to me is that I can
truly tell you that some of the most valuable things I have learned here
over the years has been by accidentially looking at a topic etc and finding
it to be of great interest and relevance. I would hate to lose that
inadvertant "cross posting/cross wiring" that might not happen with too
fragmented a forum. Just my 2 pesos worth. David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Elegantly and simply put Joe. "Ya don't know what ya don't know until you
find it." David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
> That is the problem I have with having multiple forums - this is stupid,
> guys! I want to see all comments, whether I delete them or not; because if
I
> don't, I m=ight miss something!! As long as everyone follows the EV List
> charter, and information and questions are pertinent to electric vehicles,
> we will all benefit.
>
> Let's eliminate any extraneous forums and crossover, and keep it all here,
> please!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Advanced Dc 9in Questions ( From Voltage Forum )
>
>
> > On 6 Mar 2004 at 22:44, Ken Trough wrote:
> >
> > > A participant at the new Voltage Forum has a question about ADC9"
> > > motors.
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing something, but if he's gotten no answer to his
question
> on
> > the forum, why doesn't the participant just post that question here
> himself?
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough wrote:
>
> A participant at the new Voltage Forum has a question about ADC9"
> motors. Specifically, can they handle more than the 156V max voltage
> rating, and if so, do any modifications need to be made in order to
> handle the extra voltage?
>
> Application is an EV home project with a Z1K or Z2K controller.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3266y
>
> Does it make sense to maximize the voltage for a home built runabout,
> or
> do you get more efficiency or reliability at a lower than max voltage?
>
> Please respond at the URL if possible. If not, then I'll relay the
> message.
>
> Thanks for the assistance!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Please note that Voltage Forum has no control over the
> contents of this message.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Regards,
>
> The Voltage Forum team.
> http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php
Question about a 9 incher aon 156 volts. NO problems, and no motor mods
are nessadary. Advancing the brushes fro forward rotation is a good
idea. You don't have to it just helps the longevity. At 2000 amps it's
pretty much required. At 1000 you are just running the motor at about
%110 of it's rated voltage. Us racers wouldn't even consider 156 enough
even worry about.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken,
I think this is a good thing for the EV community.
Like you said, change is difficult for some, but
I think your forum is a positive step in the right
direction.
Thanks for your efforts.
Rod
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > That is the problem I have with having multiple
> forums - this is
> > stupid, guys!
>
> > As long as everyone follows the EV List charter,
> and information and
> > questions are pertinent to electric vehicles, we
> will all benefit.
>
> The EVDL and other larger single EV topic forums
> like the Zappy forum
> have just about reached their maximum density and
> user participation.
> Why? Because if too many posts happen on any one
> channel, people tend to
> get overwhelmed. You like tech discussion, but
> others are interested in
> both tech and EV politics for instance, or maybe
> advocacy. Having a mega
> forum with multiple topics channels addresses this
> shortcomings of
> narrow focus in the current forum designs. You are
> totally happy with
> the EVDL, then great! But I see many users,
> overwhelmed by the list
> traffic, trying to unsubscribe every week.
>
> I am trying to support a model that does the most
> good for the most
> people. That is what the Voltage Forum is all about.
> As the Voltage
> Forum grows, some of the other, smaller forums will
> be absorbed. In the
> long run, launching the Voltage Forum is a move to
> consolidate the
> larger EV community, not dillute it.
>
> I recognize that change is difficult for some, and I
> fully support the
> existing forums, but we've got to plan for the
> future and we need a
> space that supports tens if not hundreds of
> thousands of active
> participants. The EVDL is too narrow in scope and
> cannot handle that
> kind of traffic in any case.
>
> So please be patient if you see the occasional
> crossover post. It won't
> happen too often, and it really is for the good of
> the overall EV
> community.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> 24 hour AIM - ktrough
> 24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
I agree with most of what you said.
I also post some OT stuff and have other
list people that I have sold stuff to and have bought
stuff from.
I will continue to be an EVDL list member regardless
of the voltage forum. However, I think Ken is
offering
an alternative list for those people that have side
interests a little more fine tuned that could care
less about the larger bandwidth offered on the EVDL.
I don't know if it will succeed, but I think any
effort to promote EV advancement is a good thing.
There are lot's of EVDL members like me that have
been around for 8 years or more and will never leave,
but I already signed up for the Voltage forum and will
see what happens there.
I wish the best of luck to Ken with this effort.
Rod.
--- David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ken,
> I don't mean to be negative but starting another EV
> forum calls to mind the
> analogy of the wind and reeds. Individually reeds
> bend, in a bundle they
> have great strength. I don't personally care for the
> political OT postings
> but I find no great difficulty in just deleteing
> them unread, just like some
> discussions that come up that I check out and that
> don't pertain to my
> interests. Heck I occasionally launch an OT post
> over some new piece of
> Junque I come across. I can tell you that I always
> am careful to label these
> as OT and I cannot tell you how many times I have
> been thanked for bringing
> this stuff to light. I count quite a few EVDLers
> among my customers. Makes
> me feel that I am somehow involved with their
> projects as well and that I
> had a slight hand in their success'. Of more
> importance to me is that I can
> truly tell you that some of the most valuable things
> I have learned here
> over the years has been by accidentially looking at
> a topic etc and finding
> it to be of great interest and relevance. I would
> hate to lose that
> inadvertant "cross posting/cross wiring" that might
> not happen with too
> fragmented a forum. Just my 2 pesos worth. David
> Chapman.
>
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From Machine Design magazine, March 4, 2004:
"A new system for charging batteries of electric vehicles is said to be
nearly as fast as traditional refueling at a gas station. A research student
at Leicester University in central England developed the scheme, which
charges lead-acid batteries with a stream of high-current pulses. Pulse size
varies according to the charge level of the battery, and the technique
doesn't shorten battery life. This charging system may play a part in
developement of electric vehicles with an acceptable range for city use, low
running costs and fast charging."
A photo of the student and his charger can be found at www.machinedesign.com
, Current Issue/ Application briefs/ Fast charging for electric vehicles.
Any comments?
Tim
_________________________________________________________________
Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1!
(Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
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That is the problem I have with having multiple forums - this is stupid,
guys! I want to see all comments, whether I delete them or not;
because if [snip]
You know - this is *really* off topic. Just as OT as most of the
political junk.
Let's leave the list, or lists, alone and talk EV without prejudicing
list members.
Neon
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On 7 Mar 2004 at 13:40, Ken Trough wrote:
> The EVDL and other larger single EV topic forums like the Zappy forum
> have just about reached their maximum density and user participation.
> Why? Because if too many posts happen on any one channel, people tend to get
> overwhelmed.
I don't see why you say this. As far as I know, most people seem to do OK
scanning the subjects and using the delete command. Some use filters. Many
(like me) actually ^enjoy^ reading the wide diversity of material posted
here, and read everything. I've learned a lot by reading posts I didn't
think I'd be interested in. FYI, I archive ^every^ EV list post.
I think it's more likely that users will be overloaded by trying to take
part in multiple online communities, than by sorting through the messages
that appear here. But then you do seem to suggest that you'd like to absorb
some of those other communities, so perhaps that issue will be minimized in
the long run. (You apparently think this is a good thing. I don't, but
it's rather like corporate buyouts - one's position on buyouts is usually
influenced by how much he stands to gain financially from the transaction,
and whether one happens to be working for the company about to be absorbed.)
Back on topic: I think this system works pretty well.
- It's highly inclusive, both in attitude and in technical requirements
(anybody with a computer and email account can take part).
- It's ad-free and operated by a noncommercial, public-sector host (San
Jose State University); these folks are here for the long haul.
- Though there are some rules, mostly it's open-ended. The list is self-
regulated and self-moderated. Only rarely do the list owners have to step
in to deal with specific problems.
- The list has spawned a number of offshoot lists for specialized EV-
related interests, which speaks to at least some of your concerns.
Not to belittle your efforts, but every few months, someone joins the list
and almost immediately begins promoting whatever town-meeting system he's
used to. We're told that we should drop this antiquated system - plain text
email, for goodness sake! That's so '90s! - and embrace his system and all
its whiz-bang features.
Every time this comes up, we spend large amounts of time and bandwidth
discussing it. Every time, a couple of people argue passionately for the
new system. Many of the arguments are valid ones. And every time - at
least so far - the vast majority of EV list users stays right here because
the system still works pretty well for them.
EV folks of all kinds continue to come here, for a very simple reason: the
content. There's no glitz, no fancy graphics (except as posted elsewhere on
the web, which works fine). But somehow we manage to communicate solid,
worthwhile, useful information.
That content comes thanks to a wealth of experienced and smart EV hobbyists
and professionals. They give freely of their time and expertise, answering
questions that range from the most elementary to those that challenge and
expand the horizons of EV work. They talk among themselves of subjects that
are certainly over the heads of many - and yet it's possible to learn a
great deal by reading their exchanges. They are thoughtful and tolerant,
and welcome (or at least accept) a surprising amount of marginally-topical
material.
My concern is that you may dilute the content, and compromise its quality,
by dividing the time and attention that some of this list's members can
invest. My question is, what are your reasons? What advantage do you, or
your magazine, gain from getting people to use your forum instead? Is it
financial? Personal? What?
Please, no partial answers, no platitudes, no "we've got to plan for the
future": let's hear it all. Believe me, I know this sounds like a
challenge, but I honestly don't mean it that way. I just think we need to
know the whole story: what's really in it for you, Ken?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
In politics stupidity is not a handicap.
-- Paul Graham
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Ken Trough wrote:
> The EVDL and other larger single EV topic forums like the Zappy forum
> have just about reached their maximum density and user participation.
> Why? Because if too many posts happen on any one channel, people tend
> to get overwhelmed.
I agree. However, the solution may be worse than the problem. Splitting
the EV list into numerous (29?) subgroups seems likely to break the
'community' aspects of the EV list.
Wouldn't it be possible to keep the EV list itself as one large list,
but have a preprocessor program that people could use to
search/sort/simplify accessing it?
If done at the listserv level, it could eliminate all those "signoff
ev", spam, duplicates, accidental quoting of the whole EVDL digest,
off-topic rants, and other bad posts. This alone could cut the number of
posts per day in half! :-)
Or, it could be a postprocessor, that each subscriber can choose to use.
It could combine messages in a common thread, sort and label them by
topics, index them for easier searches, etc.
I know on other newsgroups that cover a wide range of topics, people
have filter programs that only show them the posts that mention certain
topics that they are interested. Perhaps we could encourage people to
use one of these programs?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
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On Sunday, March 7, 2004, at 06:52 PM, Tim Medeck wrote:
From Machine Design magazine, March 4, 2004:
"A new system for charging batteries of electric vehicles is said to
be nearly as fast as traditional refueling at a gas station. A
research student at Leicester University in central England developed
the scheme, which charges lead-acid batteries with a stream of
high-current pulses. Pulse size varies according to the charge level
of the battery, and the technique doesn't shorten battery life. This
charging system may play a part in developement of electric vehicles
with an acceptable range for city use, low running costs and fast
charging."
A photo of the student and his charger can be found at
www.machinedesign.com , Current Issue/ Application briefs/ Fast
charging for electric vehicles.
Any comments?
A quick trip to Google reveals this press release from the University
of Leicester, describing Jonathan Starkey's charger technology:
http://www.le.ac.uk/press/press/youngleicesterengineers.html
It's dated December 2002. I'm not sure why Machine Design thinks it's
new. I'm just guessing here, but the pictures in the UL press release
show a lab bench full of parts and test equipment, and the pictures in
Machine Design article show what appears to be a working prototype, so
perhaps the newness is that the idea demonstrably works.
I wanted some more information, so I went back to Google.
http://www.setforeurope.org/list%20of%20abstracts2.htm , search for
Starkey.
You get the abstract of a paper he presented in 2002 at the conference
described in the UL press release. This might be of interest to the
list:
���� A novel high current pulsed lead acid battery charging system has
been developed, designed to charge a lead acid battery as rapidly as
is practicable without shortening its useful life. This system charges
the battery using a train of high current pulses. The duty cycle of
the pulses varies according to the state of charge of the battery. As
the state of charge of the battery increases, the average current
supplied to the battery is reduced in order to minimise gassing. This
is achieved by reducing the duty cycle of the pulse train, by
increasing the time interval between the pulses. The charging pulses
are generated by a resonant converter, with a maximum amplitude of 600
A, and of 0.1 ms duration. The converter incorporates discharge pulses
between the charge pulses as this has been shown to improve charge
acceptance. The discharge converter returns to the power supply a
fixed percentage of the charge supplied to the battery during the
previous charge pulse, as this reduces the potential of the positive
plate and therefore the amount of oxygen produced.
Maybe that's why his charger has those six cells (capacitors?) in it,
to store the charge yanked out of the batteries between charging
pulses. I wonder how efficient this design is?
Tim
Later,
Doug
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
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--- Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone know a link to the article explaining how big oil and big
> auto got together to lobby and kill the California EV mandate?
> Sure would like to find that again and have had no luck.
>
> Thanks
Not sure if of these are what you're looking for, but they do mention
auto/oil involvement, mostly dealing with the EV-1 and RAV4. I have a
one or two other files in word format I had saved, but didn't copy the
URL for some reason. If you want those, contact me off list and I'll
send them to you.
Sam
http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=599
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/Rav4_protest_korthof.html
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
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Tim Medeck wrote:
>
> >From Machine Design magazine, March 4, 2004:
>
> "A new system for charging batteries of electric vehicles is said to be
> nearly as fast as traditional refueling at a gas station. A research student
> at Leicester University in central England developed the scheme, which
> charges lead-acid batteries with a stream of high-current pulses. Pulse size
> varies according to the charge level of the battery, and the technique
> doesn't shorten battery life. This charging system may play a part in
> developement of electric vehicles with an acceptable range for city use, low
> running costs and fast charging."
>
> A photo of the student and his charger can be found at www.machinedesign.com
> , Current Issue/ Application briefs/ Fast charging for electric vehicles.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Tim
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1!
> (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
You shoulda just ordered a PFC50, it will get really close to anyones
definition of fast.
Yea if you monitor volts and temp, as well as amps you can charge a Ev
as fast as the betteries can take it.
For most of us the limit is the Grid supply. I have that
problem.....With a couple of PFC50s on hand the 70 amp feed to my shop
is not enough
to fully test a couple of units at a time.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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