EV Digest 3394
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Seeking: Auburn PC-600 physical dimension specs
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fast charging
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Free Mule (glider)
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Dyno
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Voltage Forum - what about UseNet?
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Questions about the Voltage Forum
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Seeking: Auburn PC-600 physical dimension specs
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Orbital mounting help
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Voltage Forum - what about UseNet?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: New 48V Alltrax Controller - First ride
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Orbital mounting help
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Leaner Trikes at Vegas
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Next OEVA meeting in Portland, OR
by "Eric Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Hawker 38 amp batts.
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fast charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Voltage Forum - what about UseNet?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Gadgets on the dash question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Gadgets on the dash question
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Gadgets on the dash question
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Voltage Forum - what about UseNet?
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Gadgets on the dash question
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) thanks: Auburn PC-600 physical dimension specs
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Gadgets on the dash question
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Gadgets on the dash question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Gadgets on the dash question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Gadgets on the dash question
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Gadgets on the dash question
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Leaner Trikes at Vegas
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Leaner Trikes at Vegas
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) AABC-04 Agenda Online
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Orbital mounting help
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Orbital mounting help
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I had a long phone call from a local EAA member. He is
seeking the physical dimensions of an ol' Auburn
Scientific PC-600 air cooled controller.
I was not able to find the physical dimensions with a
simple web search. Since these old controllers are not
in production, the specs must be out of print.
If you know the dimension specs, please let me know.
...
Details:
This guy is long time EAA member and goes back to the
days of the EAA's formation (way before my time). The
ol' furt is still kick'n and driving Electric!
Well he was until, a cursit controller went out,
and he said messed up his transmission (don't ask).
So he is looking to find a replacement controller
that is not a cursit, and thought of the Auburn. He
said he heard there was a person repairing them.
While I still have my original PC-600 air cooled
controller, and it is solid as a rock (knock on
dashboard), I mentioned I wonder why the Auburn
he is considering buying had to be rebuilt (?).
Why buy old?
I asked if he had looked at what else was available,
or anything newer in design. He said no, he did not
know where to find out. He's a word of mouth guy.
I will be sending him some url links for him to
look at some used raptors. But I also will tell him
that he should also consider a new Zilla as well.
One does not 'have to' buy the old stuff.
He also was going to bump up from the T125 to the
T145, and go from 132 to a 144 VDC pack.
I told him of the change that Trojan made to what
posts they offer, that US-145s were a better deal,
with all the same posts EV conversions use, and our
local US Battery dealer was very EV-friendly
(something Trojan is not).
He thinks he has to change his prestolite motor
because he thinks his motor may not run at 144 VDC.
Since this guy is a talker, and not a 'puter
person, I want to have him yak at Otmar to talk
motors. My gut feeling is if his prestolite was
doing fine at 132 VDC, pushing 144 VDC through
with a low amperage controller (600 amps) should
be OK.
He said, "you know Bruce, you know all this stuff ..."
I said, no I read all this stuff. Its up on the
EV List, its easily found with web searches, it's
like what you do when using the yellow pages, but
with the Internet its world-wide.
Well, this guy admitted he is computer illiterate.
He has two fast new PCs that have Internet access,
but he has not used them.
Yup, there still are people who have not gotten
with the year 2000.
He isn't a computer hater, he just has been
avoiding it. I bet there are other EV people out
there that avoid computers too. They are out there
in the dark and in the cold, making mistakes they
could avoid.
It is a shame that all that EV knowledge is not
linked with the great EV continuum, but that is
the way it is. There are still EV'rs out there
that do not know of our EV community.
Come on in, the flux is fine :-)
=====
' ____
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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll see Rich's PFC-50 9Kw ...
and raise you a NG5 5Kw + 4 K2's
(2*2.5Kw + 2*1Kw =) 7Kw, a total of 21Kw worth of
chargers onboard.
I have a 21Kw charging ability. I dual charging
output cables to handle the 150+ amps into my pack.
But finding an EV charging spot that has 21Kw
for me to plug into, now that is the challenge.
Usually, it is two 14-50 208VAC 40amp circuits, or
the PFC-50 turned down to 6Kw, and the NG5's 5Kw
= 11Kw into my pack.
But find me the right power, I can pump 21Kw !!!
Now that's fast charging ... Bruce style.
=====
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I have a `84 Olds Toronado that is less engine and trans, steering column
and a few other goodies. Near perfect body and interior and this one even
has the digital dash and moon roof. Its not going to bring enough to be
worth the time parting out so if anyone is near Phx and would like to haul
it off its free to a EVDL member. Title is good too. The front wheel drive
is intact, rear tag axle and 4 wheel disc brakes and I have always thought
it would be a good FWD parts donor for a EV conversion even if the body is
too big (its not really that huge, but you probably COULD put forklift batts
under the hood). Need to say goodbye to it soon, contact me OL if you want
it. Regards David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
GOT TORQUE!!!
I have the force sensor kinda working....260 lbs of Rich standing on
the sensor pivots reads 2.6 Millivolts....
138 amps on the 9 incher reads 000.4 Mv above the null values. What's
that ... 40 lbs of torque, I doubt that. The Cal efforts are going to be
fun.
I now need some "Instrument grade" Opamps.
Total electronics is a 10 volt regulator and a Fluke on Mv scale.
Clearly that's going to get a LOT more complicated.
Back to green boxes....It was a fun weekend on the dyno.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Ken Trough wrote:
> The EVDL and other larger single EV topic forums like the Zappy forum
> have just about reached their maximum density and user participation.
> Why? Because if too many posts happen on any one channel, people tend
> to get overwhelmed.
I've thought this often but never said it, but why don't we have a UseNet
newsgroup? Sure, it's dated but it seems a pretty good approach to me.
People can easily read all the messages if they wish, but you can also
glance over the subjects and only download the messages you actually want to
read as well. Another advantage would be that everything gets archived in
the massive searchable index that is Google Groups.
Lee Hart wrote:
> I agree. However, the solution may be worse than the problem.
> Splitting the EV list into numerous (29?) subgroups seems likely to
> break the 'community' aspects of the EV list.
Usenet wouldn't do that.
> Wouldn't it be possible to keep the EV list itself as one large list,
> but have a preprocessor program that people could use to
> search/sort/simplify accessing it?
Usenet *would* do that.
> If done at the listserv level, it could eliminate all those "signoff
> ev", spam, duplicates, accidental quoting of the whole EVDL digest,
> off-topic rants, and other bad posts. This alone could cut the number
> of posts per day in half! :-)
No signup or listserv worries with Usenet either :)
> Or, it could be a postprocessor, that each subscriber can choose to
> use. It could combine messages in a common thread, sort and label
> them by topics, index them for easier searches, etc.
That's what UseNet is, why on earth aren't use using it? It's all text based
and it's been around as long as the internet!
Just throwing ideas around...
Dean
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some have suggested that I have hidden motives in starting this forum. I
have no interest in getting into a pissing match with anyone here.
The reasons I started the Voltage Forum community are genuine and I have
already been VERY clear about them. I am investing an incredible amount
of time and effort in a comercial free ad free forum structure and other
EV community support mechanisms because I believe it is best for the
overall future growth of the EV community.
You don't want to participate? Fine. No one is twisting your arm.
I have invested thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars of
my own money over the past few years in EV promotion and support of the
online communities with no profits (nor expectation of profits)
whatsoever. I do this in order to help this perpetual fledgling industry
gain more acceptance in the mainstream. Period.
If you honestly believe that I am some bogeyman out for personal gain
then fine. I respect your right to be badly mistaken. Just don't sit
back in the cheap seats and take pot shots at me for taking action to do
something I believe needs to be done for the future growth of the EV
community at large.
If I am right, and there is a genuine need for this structure, then it
will gain acceptance and popularity. I've had more than 50 people
register in the past 48 hours and so far the response has been
overwhelmingly positive, (certain elements of present company
excepted).
I have no interest in taking OT bandwidth on this already busy channel
arguing the merits of the model. If you want to discuss this further,
I'll be happy to do so in email or in the Voltage Forums.
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bruce and all,
My Auburn manual gives the following dimensions:
Length: 16.5 " (plus 1.25" for power connectors)
Width: 7"
Height: 4.25"
Dave Luiz has been handling repairs/upgrades on these controllers, and at
one time was considering putting them back into production.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force (almost there)
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hopefully there comes a day when I contribute by answering questions
instead of always asking! Thanks to everyone, this list is great!
Question: Do the Orbitals have some sort of mounting brackets on the
base? If so, how does one make the mounts to interface with these
brackets (or can they be bought somewhere)? I'm in the process of
building my battery racks (Yeh! It's actually begun!), but without an
actual Orbital in my possession, I'm not sure the best way to secure
them down. I'm thinking of using threaded rod, or making metal-strap
brackets that extend upwards the height of the battery, and another
metal strip that lays over the top of the batteries and bolts to the
brackets. The only problem is the battery-posts might be hard to work
around. Any suggestions or pictures of how others have done it?
Thanks!
-Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:15 AM 3/8/2004, you wrote:
I've thought this often but never said it, but why don't we have a UseNet
newsgroup? Sure, it's dated but it seems a pretty good approach to me.
1 word. SPAM.
Another word: Trolls.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have two 300 amp shunts and a meter to go with that Curtis controller.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: New 48V Alltrax Controller - First ride
> I got my new controller this week and got to test it out for the first
time
> today. I replaced my Curtis 1204 275 amp model with an Alltrax 48V 400
amp
> model http://www.alltraxinc.com/prod04.htm. It's very nice and seems to
> perform as advertised. I programmed it before I put it in on, but barely
> made any changes from the factory defaults. I set the throttle up and
> throttle down adjustments a little bit quicker and changed it from a
linear
> to a progressive throttle ramp. Two of my main problems have now been
> solved. It's no longer a dog off the line and I don't have trouble
climbing
> hills.
>
> I haven't decided for sure what to do with my old controller. It still
> works great and would have been fine on my motorcylce if I had it geared
> differently, but I want to keep that top speed at 60mph and need to cart
> around enough batteries for my 30-40 mile range, not to mention my own 250
> pound carcass. At 48V the only way to do that is to keep my gear ratio
high
> enough on the top end and pump through more amps for acceleration. If you
> think you might be interested in buying a used 36-48V Curtis for around
$150
> I might be interested in selling. It would be great for a go kart or a
> lower weight or lower speed motorcycle. Contact me off list if you are
> interested.
>
> damon henry
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan,
I found the best battery mounting, for me is, a tee shape steel bar that ran
between each battery roll that fasten to the sides of the battery rack or
box.
My first battery boxes were made of 1/4 inch welded aluminum with these tee
bars. I found that no matter how clean your batteries are, there is current
leakage to these bars.
With the lights out, I could see slight arking from the battery case to some
of these mounting bars.
So I had these boxes coated with a thick coat of that spray on stuff that
they put in pickup boxes. Also have all the mounting bars coated with the
same stuff.
I latter made these boxes with fiberglass which is made from 1/4 fiberglass
4-foot by 8-foot size material. I than had the fiberglass company that
supply me these sheets, coated them with the same stuff that they used on
shower stalls. You can buy this in kits from a hardware store.
You can also dip or paint on all the battery frame and holding brackets with
tool handle coating compound, but I find with a larger area, I used the
truck bed spray on stuff.
The tool handle dipping stuff, works great for coating the battery
terminals. It is acid proof and You can peel it off in one piece, no messy
grease stuff that dust builds up on.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:28 AM
Subject: Orbital mounting help
> Hopefully there comes a day when I contribute by answering questions
> instead of always asking! Thanks to everyone, this list is great!
>
> Question: Do the Orbitals have some sort of mounting brackets on the
> base? If so, how does one make the mounts to interface with these
> brackets (or can they be bought somewhere)? I'm in the process of
> building my battery racks (Yeh! It's actually begun!), but without an
> actual Orbital in my possession, I'm not sure the best way to secure
> them down. I'm thinking of using threaded rod, or making metal-strap
> brackets that extend upwards the height of the battery, and another
> metal strip that lays over the top of the batteries and bolts to the
> brackets. The only problem is the battery-posts might be hard to work
> around. Any suggestions or pictures of how others have done it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ryan
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, Does anyone have contact info or pictures of the leaning trikes at
Las Vegas?
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Per our usual schedule, Oregon Electric Vehicle Association will
have its monthly meeting this Thursday, March 11th, at 7:30PM.
Location is the same as it has been, 2 World Trade Center at
the corner of 1st Ave. and Salmon St. in SW Portland.
There will be two street-side charging stations, along with 120V
outlets in the display courtyard.
Socialization will begin around 7:00PM. Feel free to bring your
electric and hybrid vehicles to display in the courtyard. We'll
catch up on everyone's early spring progress and expect a visit
from a few IIT Tech students.
See everyone there!
--
Eric Johnson
Portland, OR
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
A few weeks ago there was some info on a supply of used good hawker 38
amp batteries, as used in the us electricar S 10 trucks, I need 5 or
so. Any contact info would be greatly appreciated. Also does anyone
have any surplus interconnect hardware? Has anyone tried other battery
options for these tight battery boxes? As I am currently rebuilding an
S10 pack.
Thanks,
Bill B. Reno Nv.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Medeck wrote:
> "A new system for charging batteries of electric vehicles is said
> to be nearly as fast as traditional refueling at a gas station.
> A research student at Leicester University in central England
> developed the scheme, which charges lead-acid batteries with a
> stream of high-current pulses. Pulse size varies according to the
> charge level of the battery, and the technique doesn't shorten
> battery life."
I think another student has re-discovered the basic nature of lead-acid
batteries. We've known for a century that you can charge them as fast as
you can discharge them -- which is very fast indeed! The only real limit
is voltage-based; starting at 2.4v/cell some of the charging current
gets diverted into gassing and heating reactions, and by the time you
reach 2.6v/cell essentially all the current goes into these reactions
(i.e. no real charging is taking place).
Also, essentially all battery chargers are already pulse chargers. They
deliver high-current pulses at each peak of the AC line cycle, and zero
current between them. A "10 amp" charger is actually delivering more
like 40 amp pulses for 1/4 the time, 120 times per second. A great many
chargers measure the battery voltage during the zero-current times, and
use it to determine how much power to put into the following pulses.
High-power chargers are rare simply because they cost more. To charge 10
times faster, your charger will cost 10 times more. Most users simply
won't pay the cost.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dean Thompson wrote:
> I've thought this often but never said it, but why don't we have a
> UseNet newsgroup?
I think the biggest single reason is that we would be MURDERED by spam.
I read several newsgroups, and I'll bet over 50% of the posts are
off-topic, insulting, sex ads, viruses and worms, etc.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fellow EVers,
I'd like people's expertise/suggestions on how one would
like to semi-permanently mount a gadget (about a cell phone
size) on a dash of a modern car.
Drill holes in it an use expandable base drywall screws?
Suction caps / duct tape / bunji cords? :-)
How would *you* mount a gadget on your dash?
I saw what Garmin offers for their GPS units (I have one)
and I don't quite like it.
Of course, if you find a spot and make a hole for it
like for an e-meter, this is no longer a concern.
Objective is no/minimal damage to the dash material should
you (re)move the gadget, but have it solidly mounted
outside the dash without excessive mods like for those
computers in police cars.
Which brings another option: what do you prefer -
in dash mounting or outside? If both options are
available, which one would you pick (pros/cons) and why?
Thanks for comments,
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I'd like people's expertise/suggestions on how one would
> like to semi-permanently mount a gadget (about a cell phone
> size) on a dash of a modern car.
it depends what kind of car. chryslers have the weird din-and-a-half radio
opening, so if you put in a din aftermarket stereo you have the weird
adapter plate around it. i'd screw a bracket to that, because 100% of the
time i'm replacing the radio with an aftermarket car stereo (which happens
to be a pullout system that's actually a linux box running arm)
if i couldn't do that, i'm not sure.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like stuff to look as clean and OEM as possible, so I like the look of
cutting a hole and having a gage attach using the clamp mount and bezel that
came with it. It leaves no visible seam or attachment screws. An
alternative is to use a quality aftermarket mount designed for the vehicle.
That said, I haven't had astonishing success in this area, but it doesn't
look -too- bad, either.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Gadgets on the dash question
>
> Fellow EVers,
>
> I'd like people's expertise/suggestions on how one would
> like to semi-permanently mount a gadget (about a cell phone
> size) on a dash of a modern car.
>
> Drill holes in it an use expandable base drywall screws?
> Suction caps / duct tape / bunji cords? :-)
>
> How would *you* mount a gadget on your dash?
> I saw what Garmin offers for their GPS units (I have one)
> and I don't quite like it.
>
> Of course, if you find a spot and make a hole for it
> like for an e-meter, this is no longer a concern.
>
> Objective is no/minimal damage to the dash material should
> you (re)move the gadget, but have it solidly mounted
> outside the dash without excessive mods like for those
> computers in police cars.
>
> Which brings another option: what do you prefer -
> in dash mounting or outside? If both options are
> available, which one would you pick (pros/cons) and why?
>
> Thanks for comments,
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart writes:
>
> Dean Thompson wrote:
> > I've thought this often but never said it, but why don't we have a
> > UseNet newsgroup?
>
> I think the biggest single reason is that we would be MURDERED by spam.
> I read several newsgroups, and I'll bet over 50% of the posts are
> off-topic, insulting, sex ads, viruses and worms, etc.
Additionally, spammers harvest newsgroups for e-mail addresses and
then hammer those addresses.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I'd like people's expertise/suggestions on how one would
> like to semi-permanently mount a gadget (about a cell phone
> size) on a dash of a modern car.
>
> Drill holes in it an use expandable base drywall screws?
> Suction caps / duct tape / bunji cords? :-)
>
> How would *you* mount a gadget on your dash?
> I saw what Garmin offers for their GPS units (I have one)
> and I don't quite like it.
>
> Of course, if you find a spot and make a hole for it
> like for an e-meter, this is no longer a concern.
>
> Objective is no/minimal damage to the dash material should
> you (re)move the gadget, but have it solidly mounted
> outside the dash without excessive mods like for those
> computers in police cars.
>
> Which brings another option: what do you prefer -
> in dash mounting or outside? If both options are
> available, which one would you pick (pros/cons) and why?
Hi Victor,
You haven't said what kind of gadget we're talking about. One thing to
consider is that your original dash looks like it does in part because
it was designed that way for crash safety. All soft, round edges and
padding everywhere. Nothing poking out (like toggle switches, which can
give you really nasty wounds in a crash). Even the popular gauges for
EVs
(http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=415&product_id=1
466) are kind of marginal due to their fairly brittle case material and
sharp bezel. (FWIW, I use these too.)
If the gadget is pretty crash-friendly, the next concern is that is
stays in place in a crash. You'd be surprised how many injuries and
deaths occur due to things like cell phones flying around the cabin in a
crash.
Either in-dash or on-dash, make sure you won't get hurt if you hit it
and that it can't hit you.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Mike,
that's just what he will need to know
if he want to know if he has room to
mount an Auburn PC-600 controller.
I think I will have this guy talk to
Dave directly for more details like
the specs on the mounting holes, etc.
Thanks again :-)
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor, how about self adhesive Velcro? Comes in sheets, strips and squares
and is available in at least 2 strengths at Home Depot. Cheap too, and the
adhesive can be released with Goo Gone or Goof Off. David Chapman.
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David Chapman wrote:
Victor, how about self adhesive Velcro? Comes in sheets, strips and squares
and is available in at least 2 strengths at Home Depot. Cheap too, and the
adhesive can be released with Goo Gone or Goof Off. David Chapman.
Someone mentioned a bezel for a standard radio, and I think
in-dash mount in place where (spare) radio spot is, will be
the best. Still, in case it's occupied, located too low to view
conveniently, whatever, I want mount on the dash option.
As any electronic gadget, it is hard case, rounded corners
at most. I'm talking about BMS LCD screen in some type of enclosure.
If one worry about hitting it in a crash, (s)he should mount
it out of the way, in between driver and passenger spot,
or something like that.
I wanted to know if something other than drilling holes in dash
is on people's mind. Tough velcro may be an option, but
it hot climates will come off quick leaving goo-like mess.
Also, ability to pivot it may be beneficial, especially
for limited view angle LCD displays.
Any other ideas peole saw and like? Do you have paper notebok/PDA/cell
holder? How do you like the way is it usually attached?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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The adhesive melts in hot climates. I tried using it to put screens into
the holes on the top of my Bradley and everything just came apart in the
heat.
Gail
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, David Chapman wrote:
> Victor, how about self adhesive Velcro? Comes in sheets, strips and squares
> and is available in at least 2 strengths at Home Depot. Cheap too, and the
> adhesive can be released with Goo Gone or Goof Off. David Chapman.
>
>
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My favorite is that new 3M pull tab tape for wall hooks, but
only for very light things. For larger stuff industrial double
sided sticky tape, the thick kind, with lots of surface area.
You could also try hot glue. Of course this is for semi-perminent
gadgets and only lightweight items that shouldn't break loose.
For perminent stuff, drill some holes. Or you can look for
existing holes or hidden mount points to attach brackets from.
L8r
Ryan
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Fellow EVers,
I'd like people's expertise/suggestions on how one would
like to semi-permanently mount a gadget (about a cell phone
size) on a dash of a modern car.
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The A-pillar gauge holders might be a good starting place.
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com
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Does anyone have contact info or pictures of the leaning trikes at Las
Vegas?
We've got photos and contact info already up at the Voltage Forum.
I'm on my handheld right now, but I believe the website is
evolvemotors.com. Check the Voltage Forum for the photography under the
electric motorcycles and tricycles board.
http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
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movies and pix are in several places including the nedra website.
Seth
On Mar 8, 2004, at 7:41 PM, Ken Trough wrote:
Does anyone have contact info or pictures of the leaning trikes at
Las Vegas?
We've got photos and contact info already up at the Voltage Forum.
I'm on my handheld right now, but I believe the website is
evolvemotors.com. Check the Voltage Forum for the photography under
the electric motorcycles and tricycles board.
http://visforvoltage.com/forums/
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
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The complete agenda for the fourth annual Advanced Automotive Battery Conference has
been set, and
can now be viewed on our website at: http://www.advancedautobat.com/AABC/agenda.html
While assembling the agenda for this year's AABC, our aim was to provide the best
possible material
to report on the most recent progress in technology applications and the market, and
answer the
industry's current burning questions:
� Will the new hybrids being introduced this year create an upsurge in the industry
growth curve?
� Is Li Ion ready for prime time in high volume automotive?
� Will the specialty vehicle market provide significant entry for new technologies?
� Can the 'polymer' Li Ion (laminate) designs offer superior value?
� Can ultracapacitor developers bring costs down and specific energy up, soon enough
to become
serious contenders?
� Will improvements in VRLA make this a viable battery for PSOC operation?
On behalf of the conference chairs, I am glad to report that I believe we have been
successful in
attracting top experts from leading organizations to report on the latest progress and
debate their
views on these questions, leading into our renowned Q&A sessions.
For other information about AABC-04, including how to register and book your hotel,
visit our
website or reply to this email, requesting information.
With kind regards,
Menahem Anderman, Chair
Advanced Automotive Battery Conference
Tel: (1) 530 692 0140
Fax: (1) 530 692 0142
http://www.advancedautobat.com/
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At 07:28 AM 8/03/04 -0700, you wrote:
Question: Do the Orbitals have some sort of mounting brackets on the
base? If so, how does one make the mounts to interface with these
brackets (or can they be bought somewhere)? I'm in the process of
building my battery racks (Yeh! It's actually begun!), but without an
actual Orbital in my possession, I'm not sure the best way to secure them
down. I'm thinking of using threaded rod, or making metal-strap brackets
that extend upwards the height of the battery, and another metal strip
that lays over the top of the batteries and bolts to the brackets. The
only problem is the battery-posts might be hard to work around. Any
suggestions or pictures of how others have done it?
Thanks!
-Ryan
OOHH Oooh, I can answer this one (I'm just a spot ahead of you, Ryan, I'm
building battery boxes and have the batteries to go in them).
The published dimention of the Orbitals are to extremity of the case, and
to the tops of the terminal posts. There are two through-bolt holes down
the center of the case (in the middle of the battery, between the cells).
I'm going to use these to hold down mine, with spreader plates on top.
There are two cleats to hold the battery by the bottom, along the long
axis, but in an impact they probably wouldn't do much to keep them there.
The terminals have automotive posts on one side, plus a threaded post in
the middle. A to view is sortof like this:
########################
#(-)################(+)# <+= Auto' posts
########################
########################
#(-)## ######## ##(+)# <= Threaded studs
######################## and mounting
######################## holes.
########################
########################
My batteries are going to be side-by-side, so a single secondary clamping
bar across all of the tops is not a problem.
Fun, isn't it?
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
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Hello to All,
Ryan Bohm wrote:
> Hopefully there comes a day when I contribute by answering questions
> instead of always asking! Thanks to everyone, this list is great!
Don't worry about asking for the help, it's requests like this that makes us old timers
feel like we're still valid :-0
There'll be a time when you'll be the one giving the advice, trust me.
> Question: Do the Orbitals have some sort of mounting brackets on the
> base? If so, how does one make the mounts to interface with these
> brackets (or can they be bought somewhere)?
Yes, they do. They have a stepped-out rib molded into the case, down low near the
bottom
on each side. These are for use with battery clamp-down brackets like so many regular
gas
cars and trucks use these days, as opposed to the more traditional top mount type
brackets. For EV use, instead of being a helpful mounting system, these lower clamp
moldings are a nuisance to deal with. In 'all' EV conversion projects, finding space to
mount a bunch of batteries is always a tough job, and a spare 1/4 inch here, or a half
inch there, can mean the difference between getting all your batteries to fit, or not.
If
you take the Orbital Blue Top marine version (they are the easiest to stack in an EV,
where the XCD model poses even more problems with its goofy protruding side posts) and
sit
them side by side, it is the bottom clamp molding that keeps the batteries from being
able
to butt tight next to one another, creating a 3/16 inch gap between each pair of
batteries
set side by side, (not lengthwise). Stack four batteries next to each other then, and
you've just lost 3/4 of an inch. This may not seem like much, but trust me, it is!
Here's a real life example.....When we converted White Zombie over from its 336V pack
of
28 small 13.5 lb. Hawkers (a 378 lb. pack), to run with the new larger 26 lb. Exide
rectangular-shaped UPS style AGMs (imported for Exide from China), we had to come up
with
a new dual battery box configuration. Since a 26 lb. battery is roughly twice the
weight
of a 13.5 lb. battery, and since both the Hawkers and the Exides were rectangular
shaped,
it should come as no surprise that the Exides were pretty much the same shape and size
as
two Hawkers stacked next to each other. This made it easy then, for 14 of the 28
Exides to
fit in the the rear seat located aluminum battery box that used to hold all 28 of the
Hawkers. For the second set of 14 batteries, we had to create space in the trunk floor
area. Up to this point, the little Datsun's stock kidney shaped sunken spare tire well
had
been left alone and was a hollow unused area. Marko and I thought ahead, and decided
that
since we had to use it for battery containment, we'd 'improve' on it by cutting it out
of
the car, and replacing it with a newly fabricated sunken well more suited to holding
batteries than a spare tire....gone would be the kidney shape with a non-flat floor
molded
to fit a tire's sidewall, and in its place would be a flat floored, larger, more
battery-friendly shape.
We cut out the original tub of metal that made up the spare tire well, then cut over
right
up to the flanged edge of each of the car's unibody frame rails to get as much
additional
width as possible...we gained quite a bit, too. We also cut further back in the trunk
floor, again right up to the car's frame, and gained a few more inches in this
direction
as well. Marko has turned into quite a sheet metal guy, and he built a new well with a
ribbed floor for strength, and with nicely rounded lower rear corners so the finished
tub
would have a factory look from behind the car, instead of a shop class sharp-edged box
look. Once we had welded the new tub in place, I finished it up with some Bondo body
filler, primer paint, then white paint on the inside, and externally, painted it
semi-flat
black, so that the sunken tub looked like it was original equipment when we were done.
It
hangs down about the same as did the original spare tire well, too. Next, Marko and I
designed an aluminum battery box shaped exactly, to hold the other 14 rectangular Exide
UPS style batteries. This was securely bolted to the sunken well.
Then....that ill-fated race day proved to us, that the experiment with 728 lbs. of
Chinese
made UPS batteries was a failure...Hawker tough, they were not!
Next up, I decided to go with the powerful but larger and heavier Exide Orbitals,
finalizing on a 216V pack that would weigh 720 lbs., pretty close to the 728 lb. pack
of
the imported Exide UPS batteries. With full battery sponsorship from Exide, I suddenly
had
a shop full of both XCD models and Blue Top marine models! It didn't take long to get
totally frustrated with the XCDs and their awkward side posts that do nothing but get
in
the way., but the cleaner shaped marine models seemed perfect. Eight of them easily fit
into the rear seat battery box, leaving the other ten to go inside the rear
well....that's
when the extra 3/16 inch space in between the batteries gave us fits. We had jettisoned
the aluminum box insert and had made up a thick aluminum bottom plate (more on this
later). The exact space from side to side of the newly fabricated well is 33 & 3/4
inches.
In order to cram ten of the Orbital in the sunken well, I needed to fit five of the
batteries side by side, in the largest width rear portion of the well (the well is not
a
perfect rectangle, rather it has a stepped shape) in order to get all ten batteries in
the
rear. With the lower clamp-down ribs still intact, 5 of the marine batteries needed 34
&
11/16 inches, and so they would not fit. Cutting off the ribs with a table saw made
each
battery 6 &9/16 wide, instead of the regular 6 & 15/16 inches, so now, 5 batteries
stacked
side by side, equaled just 32 & 13/16 inches, and they all fit nicely! We utilized the
two
holes between the six spiral cells of each battery, and passed two, long 5/16 bolts
through them, with fender washers on top. The lower portion of the bolts threaded into
the
thick bottom plate to securely hold the batteries.
Hope this helps....
See Ya.....John Wayland
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