EV Digest 3398
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV digest 3395
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: battery trouble
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: battery trouble
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) RE: battery trouble
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Modify Zivian NG3 for Current Interupt Algorithm
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Looking for a good Machine shop
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Looking for a good Machine shop
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: wireless e-meter remote
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Looking for a good Machine shop
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Looking for a good Machine shop
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Looking for a good Machine shop
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) wireless emeter
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) VW transaxle
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Mounting question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) afraid of the water?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: free steel stock - Boston, MA area
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: afraid of the water?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: afraid of the water?
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: wireless e-meter remote
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: wireless e-meter remote
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Looking for a good Machine shop
by "Jim Waite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Fast charging
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: afraid of the water?
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Looking for a good Machine shop
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Fast charging
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) ev list
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Outlook express is erasing all the attachments from my EV Digests. Anybody
had this problem and cured it. Thanks for any help. Lawrence Rhodes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't stay at that current more than about 30 seconds. Cruise current is
anywhere from 50 to 150 amps. There's not really a flat area between my
house and town, it is either uphill or down, so the current bounces around a
lot, though except for the hills I mentioned, it usually stays in that
range.
On a flat road in town, I can get down to 30 amps at 35 mph on a good day
with little traffic. Typically, I coast a lot in those conditions, too.
Since you have little to lose by experimenting at this point, can you charge
each string separately? I'd like to see how long they last and how well
they behave if one is charged to a different voltage cap then the other.
You can use the same algorithm, just a different cap. I monitored my charge
current a few times, and the dv/dt "knee" in the curve was detectable
without too much effort.
Also, are you temperature compensating? I have to watch the BC-20, as it
has something of a temp. comp. mechanism, but it is internal to the charger,
and so will never reflect the battery temperature.
I made up a spreadsheet reflecting voltage versus temperature for different
vpc and total pack voltages for somebody...were you the one I sent that to?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:41 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: battery trouble
>
> David,
>
> Thanks for the reply. How long would you estimate you're at 250 or 350
> amps? While I'm crusing on the freeway I'm at 160 amps. I did have one
> person from US tell me that they were overcharged. The charger is setup
> with their algorithm however.
>
> Steve
>
> In a message dated 3/10/2004 4:29:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi, Steve. I have US125's too, and like you, I have no hope of getting
> to
> > much more than about 12 amps into the pack using my BC-20 charger. In
> fact,
> > if I want to keep cords from melting and breakers from popping, I need
> to
> > keep the battery amps under 10. At home, I can crank it up a little
> more
> > (until things get hot, anyway - molded on plugs on the extension cord
> are
> > the worst) because that outlet is a 30 amp circuit.
> >
> > I've had excellent results so far, though. The vehicle (about 3400 lb.,
> > 114V pack, curtis 400 amp controller) has been very lightly used, but
> still
> > has to travel 10 miles over a hilly route to get to town (and travels
> the
> > same route back, of course). This includes several 250 amp hills and
> one
> > 350 amp hill.
> >
> > I do not charge to the USB specs, however. I believe that their
> recommended
> > voltage cap, while assuring a full charge, is too high. I charge to a
> > voltage cap defined as the upper limit by that "other" battery
> manufacturer.
> > USB defines the same number as only a float charge.
> >
> > I also tend to listen to the batteries, and shut the charger off when
> they
> > are all bubbling lightly. I equalize occasionally, but usually the
> > batteries stay in very good balance. I water the cells individually.
> While
> > driving, I keep the voltage above 100V, which is not very hard to do, as
> the
> > pack is still stiff under load. It is about 1 3/4 years old.
> >
> > What you describe sounds like symptoms of premature aging on the part of
> > some batteries, more than anything. Could this be caused by
> overcharging?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:10 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: battery trouble
> > >
> > > I sent the email below to Nawaz about the batteries in my Tropica.
> Since
> > > then I've got a failed battery with a reversed cell so now I have to
> do
> > > something. I'm planning on replacing 5 of the 12 on Saturday. Is that
> a
> > > dumb thing to do? I know it's better to swap out the whole pack but I
> > > can't do that every time something fails. I'd sure like to know what
> > > caused this. The story I'm getting from US Battery is that I was
> charging
> > > with 12 amps and that's not high enough. Am I the only one charging
> US125s
> > > at 12amps? Any advise is appreciated.
> > >
> > > email to Nawaz...
> > >
> > > My 12 US 125s were installed in June of last year. Most days, I drive
> 13
> > > miles to work, charge, drive home and charge again. My charger puts
> out
> > > 12amps. It takes about 4 hours to complete the bulk charge after my
> > > commute as a reference point. The Tropica has 2 Curtis 1209B
> controllers
> > > which are 400amps each. Three times last summer I've taken the car 30-
> 35
> > > miles on a charge. The whole time I was watching that my voltage
> didn't
> > > drop below 65 for more than 2 or 3 seconds. I have had trouble with my
> > > Flow-Rite watering system and I have had cells over water a number of
> > > times. My solution to the over water is to distribute the acid from
> the
> > > overwatered cell to adjacent cells.
> > >
> > > Last November, my charger didn't terminate a couple of times and now
> it
> > > won't at all. November is when the temp started to drop here. We were
> > > getting 40 degree F nights. About 5 of the batteries will come up to
> 7.75v
> > > and 3 won't come up above 7.0 with the 12amps. I can get them up
> higher
> > > with additional current. I've tried equalizing but so far it hasn't
> > > helped. When I measured the SG, I did draw up some black or gray
> > > particles. It's now difficult to accelerate from a stop without the
> > > voltage dropping below 63v. They also seem to self discharge quickly
> > > although it's difficult to tell if they've really been fully charged.
> Two
> > > of the batteries are also getting hot, 50 degrees C, during charging.
> The
> > > temp is very different from the top to the bottom of the battery with
> the
> > > bottom being at 50.
> > >
> > > I understand that these batteries should be charged at c/10 but I
> didn't
> > > realize that using lower current could cause a problem. I've started
> > > running a second charger during bulk last Friday but am I beating a
> dead
> > > horse with this pack? Can it be recovered? Do you believe that
> charging
> > > with 12amps instead of 24 could be the cause of this? Is charging to
> > > completion twice a day reducing the life of the batteries? When I
> bought
> > > the Tropica, the 72v pack had 2v volts across it. I brought it back to
> > > life and was getting near 20 miles range. I kept that pack for 9
> months.
> > > You may remember helping me with a Dv/Dt algorithm for that charger.
> This
> > > pack has only 7 months on it. I want to make sure I don't
> > kill a pack
> > > every 7-9 months!
> > >
> > > thanks for you advice,
> > > Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
Yes I believe you did send me your spreadsheet. My charger is a DeltaQ72-12 and is
temp compensated. One of the things we considered as a potential problem was the
location of the temp sensor. The batteries in the Tropica form a 'T' 9 batteries high
and 3 across the top.
11 12 10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
The temp sensor on battery #1 which is the most exposed to outside temp. The battery
that fail is #9 although there are others the are failing. I have a remote temp sensor
now so I'll be placing it on battery #9 as it's the most isolated from ambient temps.
I'm not sure what you mean by seperate srings. I only have one string of 12 batteries.
thanks,
Steve
In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
>
>
> I don't stay at that current more than about 30 seconds. Cruise current is
> anywhere from 50 to 150 amps. There's not really a flat area between my
> house and town, it is either uphill or down, so the current bounces around a
> lot, though except for the hills I mentioned, it usually stays in that
> range.
>
> On a flat road in town, I can get down to 30 amps at 35 mph on a good day
> with little traffic. Typically, I coast a lot in those conditions, too.
>
> Since you have little to lose by experimenting at this point, can you charge
> each string separately? I'd like to see how long they last and how well
> they behave if one is charged to a different voltage cap then the other.
> You can use the same algorithm, just a different cap. I monitored my charge
> current a few times, and the dv/dt "knee" in the curve was detectable
> without too much effort.
>
> Also, are you temperature compensating? I have to watch the BC-20, as it
> has something of a temp. comp. mechanism, but it is internal to the charger,
> and so will never reflect the battery temperature.
>
> I made up a spreadsheet reflecting voltage versus temperature for different
> vpc and total pack voltages for somebody...were you the one I sent that to?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:41 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: battery trouble
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Thanks for the reply. How long would you estimate you're at 250 or 350
> > amps? While I'm crusing on the freeway I'm at 160 amps. I did have one
> > person from US tell me that they were overcharged. The charger is setup
> > with their algorithm however.
> >
> > Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh. I thought for a moment that the tropica used 2 72V strings. That'll
teach me to rely on memory:-)
Another way to get a better temp. reading is to use an aluminum sheet in
contact with several batteries. A sensor attached to the sheet will read an
temperature that is an average across the batteries it has contact with.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:18 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: battery trouble
>
> David,
> Yes I believe you did send me your spreadsheet. My charger is a DeltaQ72-
> 12 and is temp compensated. One of the things we considered as a potential
> problem was the location of the temp sensor. The batteries in the Tropica
> form a 'T' 9 batteries high and 3 across the top.
>
> 11 12 10
> 9
> 8
> 7
> 6
> 5
> 4
> 3
> 2
> 1
>
> The temp sensor on battery #1 which is the most exposed to outside temp.
> The battery that fail is #9 although there are others the are failing. I
> have a remote temp sensor now so I'll be placing it on battery #9 as it's
> the most isolated from ambient temps.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by seperate srings. I only have one string of
> 12 batteries.
>
> thanks,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >
> >
> > I don't stay at that current more than about 30 seconds. Cruise current
> is
> > anywhere from 50 to 150 amps. There's not really a flat area between my
> > house and town, it is either uphill or down, so the current bounces
> around a
> > lot, though except for the hills I mentioned, it usually stays in that
> > range.
> >
> > On a flat road in town, I can get down to 30 amps at 35 mph on a good
> day
> > with little traffic. Typically, I coast a lot in those conditions, too.
> >
> > Since you have little to lose by experimenting at this point, can you
> charge
> > each string separately? I'd like to see how long they last and how well
> > they behave if one is charged to a different voltage cap then the other.
> > You can use the same algorithm, just a different cap. I monitored my
> charge
> > current a few times, and the dv/dt "knee" in the curve was detectable
> > without too much effort.
> >
> > Also, are you temperature compensating? I have to watch the BC-20, as
> it
> > has something of a temp. comp. mechanism, but it is internal to the
> charger,
> > and so will never reflect the battery temperature.
> >
> > I made up a spreadsheet reflecting voltage versus temperature for
> different
> > vpc and total pack voltages for somebody...were you the one I sent that
> to?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:41 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: battery trouble
> > >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reply. How long would you estimate you're at 250 or 350
> > > amps? While I'm crusing on the freeway I'm at 160 amps. I did have one
> > > person from US tell me that they were overcharged. The charger is
> setup
> > > with their algorithm however.
> > >
> > > Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I am a little confused. I spoek with a Zivan retialer and he mentioned
> that they (meaning the retailer) can program different profiles for the
> charger - I was wondering if that an IC algorithm could be programmed as
> well. This would greatly increase battery life!
There are only 16 basic charge curves available for the NG series. For a
microprocessor based charger, these things are really dumb. The micro only
knows voltage and current in percentage terms..For example in a simple IUo
profile; the charger runs at 100% current until the voltage reaches a preset
threshold and then decreases current to hold that voltage. When the current
has decayed to x% the charger turns off. Even if you stump up the fairly
large fee for a custom profile, it's pretty limited. I've reverse engineered
about 75% of the control card of the NG charger and one of these days I'll
get around to producing a decent replacement.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
I know we have a number of technical people on this list, and I'm
hoping someone might be able to provide leads that will help create
the next batch of Zilla controllers.
My last low cost machinist is now too busy with college to do the
job. I know of a couple of shops here in the bay area, and have
requested quotes, but don't have high hopes of finding a good value.
I'm thinking that maybe a shop somewhere else in the country where
the cost of living is more reasonable will provide a better deal.
I need a shop that has a CNC mill. They need to be happy machining
110 copper, as well as aluminum and plastic. Tolerances are nothing
special. Most of all, they need to be willing to provide a good deal
on low batch quantities (like 25).
So if anyone knows of a shop that fits the bill, I'd love to get
contact information for them.
Thanks in advance!
ps, I checked out emachineshop.com but found that their drawing
program wasn't capable of drawing my parts. Great idea, poor
implementation....
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar,
I've got a friend that has a machine shop in Santa Clara. I know that aluminum and
plastic are not a problem but I'm not sure about copper. I've sent him your email and
I'll let you know when I hear from him.
Steve
In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:19:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I know we have a number of technical people on this list, and I'm
> hoping someone might be able to provide leads that will help create
> the next batch of Zilla controllers.
>
> My last low cost machinist is now too busy with college to do the
> job. I know of a couple of shops here in the bay area, and have
> requested quotes, but don't have high hopes of finding a good value.
> I'm thinking that maybe a shop somewhere else in the country where
> the cost of living is more reasonable will provide a better deal.
>
> I need a shop that has a CNC mill. They need to be happy machining
> 110 copper, as well as aluminum and plastic. Tolerances are nothing
> special. Most of all, they need to be willing to provide a good deal
> on low batch quantities (like 25).
>
> So if anyone knows of a shop that fits the bill, I'd love to get
> contact information for them.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> ps, I checked out emachineshop.com but found that their drawing
> program wasn't capable of drawing my parts. Great idea,
> poor
> implementation....
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar asked (in part):
> Does anyone know of a auto remote on the market now that receives
information?
Yep. The Clifford Matrix 3RS does.
-----------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile Radio Operations
Southern California Edison Co.
Ofc: 626-302-8515 - PAX 28-515
FAX: 626-302-7501 - PAX 27-501
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar, how physically big are the parts and how much material do you need
removed? BTW, Bill @ Grifftek, got your ears on? This might be something for
you. I think you are in Otmars area. Regards, David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:19 PM
Subject: Looking for a good Machine shop
> Hello All,
>
> I know we have a number of technical people on this list, and I'm
> hoping someone might be able to provide leads that will help create
> the next batch of Zilla controllers.
>
> My last low cost machinist is now too busy with college to do the
> job. I know of a couple of shops here in the bay area, and have
> requested quotes, but don't have high hopes of finding a good value.
> I'm thinking that maybe a shop somewhere else in the country where
> the cost of living is more reasonable will provide a better deal.
>
> I need a shop that has a CNC mill. They need to be happy machining
> 110 copper, as well as aluminum and plastic. Tolerances are nothing
> special. Most of all, they need to be willing to provide a good deal
> on low batch quantities (like 25).
>
> So if anyone knows of a shop that fits the bill, I'd love to get
> contact information for them.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> ps, I checked out emachineshop.com but found that their drawing
> program wasn't capable of drawing my parts. Great idea, poor
> implementation....
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I went to school with these guys and they can definitely do CNC. They
were price competitive last time I checked. But your concept of
competitive and mine may not be the same.
www.procnc.com in Bellingham WA.
Tell them I sent you and they might charge you 25% more :)
Seth Allen
On Mar 10, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Otmar wrote:
Hello All,
I know we have a number of technical people on this list, and I'm
hoping someone might be able to provide leads that will help create
the next batch of Zilla controllers.
My last low cost machinist is now too busy with college to do the job.
I know of a couple of shops here in the bay area, and have requested
quotes, but don't have high hopes of finding a good value. I'm
thinking that maybe a shop somewhere else in the country where the
cost of living is more reasonable will provide a better deal.
I need a shop that has a CNC mill. They need to be happy machining 110
copper, as well as aluminum and plastic. Tolerances are nothing
special. Most of all, they need to be willing to provide a good deal
on low batch quantities (like 25).
So if anyone knows of a shop that fits the bill, I'd love to get
contact information for them.
Thanks in advance!
ps, I checked out emachineshop.com but found that their drawing
program wasn't capable of drawing my parts. Great idea, poor
implementation....
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar,
I'm not sure what the problem is www.emachineshop.com,
but I would like to know since I plan on using them
at some point. I know you can import .dxf to their
program, but I'm not awhare of the limitations you're
talking about. Enlighten EV'rybody on the list.
I'm also not sure how competitive their pricing is
compared to what you have used previously, do you
have a quote?
I'm sure there are plenty of hungry CNC shops around
wanting work, I'll see what I can find in this area.
Rod
--- Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I went to school with these guys and they can
> definitely do CNC. They
> were price competitive last time I checked. But
> your concept of
> competitive and mine may not be the same.
>
> www.procnc.com in Bellingham WA.
>
> Tell them I sent you and they might charge you 25%
> more :)
>
> Seth Allen
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Otmar wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I know we have a number of technical people on
> this list, and I'm
> > hoping someone might be able to provide leads that
> will help create
> > the next batch of Zilla controllers.
> >
> > My last low cost machinist is now too busy with
> college to do the job.
> > I know of a couple of shops here in the bay area,
> and have requested
> > quotes, but don't have high hopes of finding a
> good value. I'm
> > thinking that maybe a shop somewhere else in the
> country where the
> > cost of living is more reasonable will provide a
> better deal.
> >
> > I need a shop that has a CNC mill. They need to be
> happy machining 110
> > copper, as well as aluminum and plastic.
> Tolerances are nothing
> > special. Most of all, they need to be willing to
> provide a good deal
> > on low batch quantities (like 25).
> >
> > So if anyone knows of a shop that fits the bill,
> I'd love to get
> > contact information for them.
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > ps, I checked out emachineshop.com but found that
> their drawing
> > program wasn't capable of drawing my parts. Great
> idea, poor
> > implementation....
> > --
> > -Otmar-
> >
> > http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> > http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking of a project like that but decided I would rather wrap
everthing into a PC in the trunk with wireless and A HD to play MP-3's
and collect data. One of my thoughts for an interface is to write an ap
for my palm and just mount the chargeing cradle. in the long run I want
a short haul wireless router like
http://www.novaroam.com/Inside.asp?n=Solutions&p=NR-EH900 to hit my
car anywhere in town and then serve 802.11 out from the car. that way I
am always close enough to my car with my laptop to get an internet
connection.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/617/172.pdf at bottom of page. I know
someone who is designing around these, for remote, but limited data is
possible.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
VW BUS transaxle?, with all the torque the bus transaxle has larger
shafts. Great raceing history lots of stuff for them. Sand rail to
racing replacments like hewland.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have aquired the donar car. a 1987 nissan 300zx with perfect body,
current registration, rebuilt tranny and a motor that smokes a little.
Motor and interior have been removed, are inside, and the car is parked
next to a machine shop I have access too! (work)
I was looking at the tranny and motor mounts and the mounts are located
a little ahead of middle of the engine block. I need to keep tranny in
original location of course. So...If I adapt the tranny to the motor,
how do I mount the whole unit? If I use the motor mount locations, there
will be a lot of stress on the adapter. Do I make my adapter go over to
the unibody pseudo-frame and bolt to that, somehow adding some
isolation? Is the motor best hanging off the adapter? And , the
politically charged question of the night, What is the best way to
couple the tranny to the motor ? Er, uhm, I guess I'll keep the clutch?.
(not too serious) Or should I make a horiz plate from motor mounts back
to an added crosmember and mount the motor down with 4 isolation mounts
like industrial equipment
I am wanting to build a car that can do daily commutes and still
showcase electrics on friday' nights and weekends. How quick would a
warp9 or advanced DC 9" and a zilla 1K be? Batteries will be a
challenge. I am thinking 20 exide orbitals, PFC20, and a balancer of course.
In my dreams it has an acceleration pack up front and a Lithium Ion pack
where the gas tank was, but. First I crawl, then I walk...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I live in sunny fresno california, but we get some decent puddles in the
winter.(more fog than sun sometimes)
How do you protect open motors like the Advanced DC 9" motor from puddles?
Will I be able to take my EV through a car wash?, or am I asking for
trouble?
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For those in the states near Boston, there is a pile of steel stock
available free, if you have the truck to get it.
EV content: I'm trying to help clean up the shop space so I have more
room to work on my next EV :-)
More details and a picture here:
http://boston.craigslist.org/zip/26179907.html
============================================================
Stack of steel stock.
Mostly round, some square, maybe one or two 6-sided pieces.
Mostly solid, some tubes.
Diameters up to 4" or so.
Lengths up to 12' or so.
Also can have the 3-tier rack (not shown) to hold all this.
============================================================
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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As I understand it, the motors don't mind the water. And I've been
through deep puddles, slush, snow etc without problem.
However, the prior owner added a piece of screening behind the brush
covers on the 9" ADC. The stock cover has rather large holes that would
let pebbles get inside and wreak havoc. (I'm not sure (yet) what the
NetGain comes with).
As for car washes... I've discovered the hood isn't all that water tight
against high pressure water nozzles and have to remember to stick an old
towel or such inside to keep the electronics dry.
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I live in sunny fresno california, but we get some decent puddles in the
winter.(more fog than sun sometimes)
How do you protect open motors like the Advanced DC 9" motor from puddles?
Will I be able to take my EV through a car wash?, or am I asking for
trouble?
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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Jeff, I used an old truck mud flap to make a shield under my ADC 9" for
splashes - and I live in western Oregon!
Works fine! Car washes shouldn't be a problem, unless you go to one that
sprays up underneath.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:24 PM
Subject: afraid of the water?
> I live in sunny fresno california, but we get some decent puddles in the
> winter.(more fog than sun sometimes)
>
> How do you protect open motors like the Advanced DC 9" motor from puddles?
>
> Will I be able to take my EV through a car wash?, or am I asking for
> trouble?
>
>
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/617/172.pdf at bottom of page. I know
> someone who is designing around these, for remote, but limited data is
> possible.
Rod Hower wrote:
If you have more money than time buy one
that is already complete.
http://www.bb-elec.com/productlist.asp?dept_id=152
This is actually where I started... thinking of two of the self
contained units ($500) + a Palm Pilot running EVDash. But that was a bit
expensive.
Then I got the MaxStream modules that are the guts of the complete units
and set them up with the Palm & EVDash.
So then I decided to make it nice and make the remote a dedicated unit
with the Basic micro controller... learning for me and something I need
(or at least want).
There are a variety of lower cost radio modules... but as the cost
drops, the engineering increases. ie need to add the rs232 interface,
need to add external components and antenna. And pc board layout becomes
important at RF levels. No longer have have FCC certification. And the
range goes down. Most often will see the "line of sight" distances
specified, but real-life indoor (or from under the hood through the wall
of the house) range will be maybe 1/3 of that range.
I think the basic key-fob radios are a bit under sized for e-meter
data... too slow and two short a range for my tastes. The MaxStream
module is overkill as it could handle a continuos data stream rather
than once per second updates. But it works, and is at hand :-)
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can see what the fob is from my Evalbum posting:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/268k.jpg
Neat - that is slick indeed.
The perfect security blanket for Joe Consumer. And great conversation
starter at a party when everyone is milling about the kitchen trying to
think of something to say...
Is the SOC display always lit, or do you press something to activate it
for a few seconds? I'm thinking that running continuously would drain
the little battery required by the size of the fob.
Does it do anything to show that the charge is in progress, or is it
just a matter of checking back after a couple of hours to see that the
next 25% bar has lit up?
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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Ot,
You might also contact our SEVA member Nels Strandberg, owner of Synertech Machine
(Renton, WA), specializes in small
runs of aluminum &/or specialty fabrication (I believe he's built adapter plates for a
couple of our local members).
[email address: nels65 (at) comcast.net (or maybe: neiss (at) jps.net )]
Jim Waite
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I would store about 2x the energy capacity of the car. If the car will carry
7 kWh, then plan on installing 14 kWh of storage in the dump charger.
The best way to control the dump charger is with a PWM controller. That way
there are no taps to move or separate charging of the batteries between the
taps. The control is smooth and controllable. It could be done with a PWM
motor controller with a circuit to keep the voltage and current within
reasonable limits.
The way I would do dump charging is with a PFC-50 running as a DC to DC
converter.
The first reason is that the input and output voltages are totally
adjustable. If one battery in the dump pack goes bad or is needed somewhere
else, you can take out the battery and have the dump pack be a few volts
lower with little effect on the dump capability (it will be a few kWh lower
in capacity because the pack is lighter).
The second reason is that the charge controller in the PFC-50 can be set to
bulk charge over a continuous range of constant current. If the batteries
are hot, you can set the amps lower to keep from overheating them. If they
are cold, you can set the amps higher to warm them up. The charge controller
will hold the batteries at an acceptance voltage to avoid gassing them. You
do not need to be standing at the controls continuously with a voltmeter and
a stop watch to control it. You can set the controls and walk away knowing
that the system will not fry your batteries.
The third reason is that the PFC-50 can be turned up to about 100 amps. It
is turned down to 50 amps to allow it to run reliably on a 50 amp 240 VAC
circuit. If you are operating from DC and have 100 amps available, the
charger can be tuned to pull or push 100 amps as a DC to DC converter. This
is possible because DC does not require the peak current capability that
operation with AC requires. You will need to talk to Rich about how far he
is willing to push the power stage for YOUR particular input and output
voltages.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Fast charging
> I've got a 1600 amp service here at my shop( as he
> puffs his chest) but my question is about building a
> dump pack. I have no power at the other end of my
> commute, except for solar. Is there a rule of thumb
> for sizing one and how does one control it?
>
> Gadget
>
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A good councilor can cure that fear ;-)
The folks that used to race electric speed boats would just dunk the
motors in the water at the end of each race to cool them off. Wilde
Evolutions has an electric land rover that they drive through puddles
that are a couple feet deep (IIRC)
In other words...don't worry about it. Well, keep it clean so it
doesn't rust..
Now controllers, that's a totally different ball of wax. I drove
through a puddle about 6-8 inches deep once and splashed water all up
inside the engine bay and all over my GE controller. GE controllers are
basically completely exposed so it shorted out :-(
Easy fix and I've since corrected that problem.
On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 20:24, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I live in sunny fresno california, but we get some decent puddles in the
> winter.(more fog than sun sometimes)
>
> How do you protect open motors like the Advanced DC 9" motor from puddles?
>
> Will I be able to take my EV through a car wash?, or am I asking for
> trouble?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
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We have an very old power wheels jeep. I tried putting a group 31 under the
seat and found that it wheelies very easy. You need to keep a battery in the
front compartment to keep the front end down.
I have put one 26 AHr Hawker in the front compartment and one under the
seat. The range was very good.
One stock motor burned up with them in series running on 24 volts. The
breaker is apparently designed for the motors in parallel. There were seven
kids on it when the motor burned up going up a 20% grade.
We currently have an 18 volt tape drive motor with an 8:1 dual reduction
chain drive to a differential. The jeep has a 4 inch lift kit installed. The
front axle has been upgraded from 7/16 inch rod to 5/8 inch rod and the rear
axle has been upgraded from 7/16 inch rod to 3/4 inch rod. The new axles
have not bent. The wheels have been upgraded to 10 inch outside diameter
pneumatic tires. Five inch wide in the back and 3 1/2 inch wide in the
front. The tie rods gave out so they have been replaced with 1/8 by 1 inch
flat bar. The stock circuit breaker is the footboard is working just fine as
well as the switches in the dash. The original foot switch died a melted
death. The are not sealed and dirt got into the contacts causing a high
resistance. When the jeep refused to stop, I ran after it and pulled the
dash switch to turn off the motor. The foot switch was melted in the on
position. I tried some Shucks push button switches but they burned up too. I
got a waterproof marine starter switch from NAPA that has run perfectly for
months.
My five year old told me tonight that he needs bigger batteries. Two SVRs
just are not enough range for him. He ran them dead between noon and five
p.m.. I asked him if he wanted to go faster or farther. He chose faster. I
have a third SVR coming to upgrade from 24 volts to 36 volts. I will have to
bypass the series\parallel switch on the dash to use 36 volts. Three SVRs
fit very snugly under the hood but the hood actually closes properly.
I have reservations about connecting 36 volts of SVRs to the motor at a
stop. I expect it to wheelie in forward and wear out the tires in reverse. I
thought a resistor in series with the motor would cut the torque from a
stop. The contactor controller could then either sense the voltage across
the resistor to tell when to hit the direct contactor or just use a timer to
hit the direct contactor. It could be inhibited to keep the direct contactor
from activating in reverse. We caught the neighbor kid doing roll backs in
the yard trying to get it to wheelie. It would do very good wheelies if
there was a third kid standing on the rear bumper holding onto the roll bar.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lightning Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
> Humm, how about series/parallel shifting for speed control?
> step 1 - 12v
> step 2 - 24v
> Just need an extra switch for the accellerator and perhaps
> some relays and creative wireing for the batteries.
>
> L8r
> Ryan
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Wow!
What a great number of responses, both on and off list.
Thanks everyone!
I can see I'll be spending much of tomorrow checking them out.
At 5:07 PM -0700 3-10-04, David Chapman wrote:
Otmar, how physically big are the parts and how much material do you need
removed? BTW, Bill @ Grifftek, got your ears on? This might be something for
you. I think you are in Otmars area. Regards, David Chapman.
They are at most 15" long, and don't need a lot of material removed,
but it does have to be accurately removed. :-) It's been designed
to be a pretty simple job on a CNC mill, I think we figured about 10
minutes machine time per part once it was all set up.
At 5:18 PM -0800 3-10-04, Rod Hower wrote:
Otmar,
I'm not sure what the problem is www.emachineshop.com,
but I would like to know since I plan on using them
at some point. I know you can import .dxf to their
program, but I'm not awhare of the limitations you're
talking about. Enlighten EV'rybody on the list.
I'm also not sure how competitive their pricing is
compared to what you have used previously, do you
have a quote?
I'm sure there are plenty of hungry CNC shops around
wanting work, I'll see what I can find in this area.
Rod
Last time I tried, which was back when it was last discussed on the
list, they could only import 2D DXF, and when I tried to spec a
chamfer on both sides of a hole the program wouldn't do it. So I
asked tech support who claimed that it could be done but did not
describe how to do it. It seemed to me that the program was seriously
lacking in 3D capability at the time. I didn't see a way to flip the
part to do operations on the sides or bottom.
At that point my general impression was that they were just trying to
cater to non-professionals (as they did not respond to me in a caring
way as I would expect from a professional operation) so I figured I
was wasting my time trying to get a quote from them. Especially since
I already had my parts designed in Solidworks and didn't need to try
to put them in their system with a clunky interface. I felt even
worse that most of the CAD applications I've used on the Mac! :-)
I don't know, once the part is in their machine they may or may not
be cost competitive. I just got quit trying to find out.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I needed.
sounds like the PFC-50 is the way to go.
Gadget
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would store about 2x the energy capacity of the
> car.
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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Hi Folks,
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
http://www.rasertech.com/news_report_b.html
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
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