EV Digest 3399
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: wireless e-meter remote
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: battery trouble - tropica ev
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: battery trouble
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: fun with powerwheels 2...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Looking for a good Machine shop
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: fun with powerwheels 2...-motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Machine shop
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: More on the laptops for sale
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Symetron
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Symetron
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: wireless e-meter remote
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: FW: afraid of the water?
by "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV digest 3395
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: wireless e-meter remote
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Symetron
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Mounting question, 300ZX
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) group orbital buy?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: group orbital buy?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: battery trouble
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fast charging
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: battery trouble
by "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Gadgets on the dash question
by Robert Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Fast charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: battery trouble
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 3:53 PM -0800 3-10-04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Otmar asked (in part):
Does anyone know of a auto remote on the market now that receives
information?
Yep. The Clifford Matrix 3RS does.
Great info!
Following your lead I found another on the web:
http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=002432
Hornet 554T is the AM based system. It comes with a second non two
way remote. Range is good. Same features of the other remote starts.
Remote has a clock and internal temp display for vehicle. $165.99 on
ebay
http://www.drdetailshop.com/554Tremotemed.jpg
shows the remote, but it doesn't look like the temperature is
displayed in numbers.
Imagine if it were! We could input a % SOC instead of temperature. Drool!
Anyone know how to contact the manufacturer? Maybe we could get a custom model?
Wait... I've found them, and a manual online
http://www.directed.com/guides/ogs.asp look up the Valet 554R
which reads, get this!
temperature check mode
This system will report the interior temperature of your vehicle
with the press of two buttons. To activate the temperature
display press Aux and Lock simultaneously. You will hear a
melody and the interior temperature will appear on the LCD
screen for five seconds.
Woo Hoo! I'll hope they don't use a temp sensor inside the processor,
because if it's on the PCB then I'm sure we can override it and drive
it with SOC data from the Emeter.
They are on ebay here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3084128051&category=48611
I'm almost ready to order one, except I don't have a emeter that spits out SOC.
How many people might be interested in a modified version that plugs
into the E-meter to display SOC? This is just the type of project I
love to do. A little hacking to distract me from production... :-)
Have fun!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
steve,
this worries me as I also am setting up a tropica with new US 125's and my
charging will be at 8 amps - not even 12, because that is the highest amps
available in my apartment garage. Please let me know what you find out.
how are you getting access to the batteries to test temp and overflow?
are you using a new flow-rite system or an old one? I got the brand new one
that matches the US-125's and is endorsed by US Battery and I found no
leaks on the first test before loading the batteries in.
we also setup a remote check and charging system so I can give an extra
boost to a lower voltage battery, as well as setup a balance system if
necessary.
How can they say 12 amps is not enough - what about solar - much lower amps
charging things like mountaintop repeaters with solar power.
brad
At 04:09 PM 03/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
I sent the email below to Nawaz about the batteries in my Tropica. Since
then I've got a failed battery with a reversed cell so now I have to do
something. I'm planning on replacing 5 of the 12 on Saturday. Is that a
dumb thing to do? I know it's better to swap out the whole pack but I
can't do that every time something fails. I'd sure like to know what
caused this. The story I'm getting from US Battery is that I was charging
with 12 amps and that's not high enough. Am I the only one charging US125s
at 12amps? Any advise is appreciated.
email to Nawaz...
My 12 US 125s were installed in June of last year. Most days, I drive 13
miles to work, charge, drive home and charge again. My charger puts out
12amps. It takes about 4 hours to complete the bulk charge after my
commute as a reference point. The Tropica has 2 Curtis 1209B controllers
which are 400amps each. Three times last summer I've taken the car 30-35
miles on a charge. The whole time I was watching that my voltage didn't
drop below 65 for more than 2 or 3 seconds. I have had trouble with my
Flow-Rite watering system and I have had cells over water a number of
times. My solution to the over water is to distribute the acid from the
overwatered cell to adjacent cells.
Last November, my charger didn't terminate a couple of times and now it
won't at all. November is when the temp started to drop here. We were
getting 40 degree F nights. About 5 of the batteries will come up to 7.75v
and 3 won't come up above 7.0 with the 12amps. I can get them up higher
with additional current. I've tried equalizing but so far it hasn't
helped. When I measured the SG, I did draw up some black or gray
particles. It's now difficult to accelerate from a stop without the
voltage dropping below 63v. They also seem to self discharge quickly
although it's difficult to tell if they've really been fully charged. Two
of the batteries are also getting hot, 50 degrees C, during charging. The
temp is very different from the top to the bottom of the battery with the
bottom being at 50.
I understand that these batteries should be charged at c/10 but I didn't
realize that using lower current could cause a problem. I've started
running a second charger during bulk last Friday but am I beating a dead
horse with this pack? Can it be recovered? Do you believe that charging
with 12amps instead of 24 could be the cause of this? Is charging to
completion twice a day reducing the life of the batteries? When I bought
the Tropica, the 72v pack had 2v volts across it. I brought it back to
life and was getting near 20 miles range. I kept that pack for 9 months.
You may remember helping me with a Dv/Dt algorithm for that charger. This
pack has only 7 months on it. I want to make sure I don't kill a pack
every 7-9 months!
thanks for you advice,
Steve
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, they are claiming AC induction motors that are50% efficient at
3.7X rated torque. And claiming that theirs are 90%. Not very likely.
And seeing as you can buy 90+% efficiency AC induction drive that runs
peak power far beyond what the normal frame size would indicate, this
is nothing new.
Seth
On Mar 11, 2004, at 3:20 AM, garry wrote:
Hi Folks,
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
http://www.rasertech.com/news_report_b.html
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have US125's in my electric Jeep now and follow Trojan's C/40 final charge
dv/dt=0 taper recommendation. There is not a minimum current that I'm aware
of, it just takes longer to charge with less current. I think that you
mentioned your pack was 2V and that probably did it in, not the current from
the charger, mine is in the 10-12 amp range also and I typically get 14k
miles from 6Ver's and 10k miles from 8Ver's before complete replacement.( I
don't change one battery at a time and don't recommend it uinless an anomoly
occurs)..
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:09 PM
Subject: battery trouble
> I sent the email below to Nawaz about the batteries in my Tropica. Since
then I've got a failed battery with a reversed cell so now I have to do
something. I'm planning on replacing 5 of the 12 on Saturday. Is that a dumb
thing to do? I know it's better to swap out the whole pack but I can't do
that every time something fails. I'd sure like to know what caused this. The
story I'm getting from US Battery is that I was charging with 12 amps and
that's not high enough. Am I the only one charging US125s at 12amps? Any
advise is appreciated.
>
> email to Nawaz...
>
> My 12 US 125s were installed in June of last year. Most days, I drive 13
miles to work, charge, drive home and charge again. My charger puts out
12amps. It takes about 4 hours to complete the bulk charge after my commute
as a reference point. The Tropica has 2 Curtis 1209B controllers which are
400amps each. Three times last summer I've taken the car 30-35 miles on a
charge. The whole time I was watching that my voltage didn't drop below 65
for more than 2 or 3 seconds. I have had trouble with my Flow-Rite watering
system and I have had cells over water a number of times. My solution to the
over water is to distribute the acid from the overwatered cell to adjacent
cells.
>
> Last November, my charger didn't terminate a couple of times and now it
won't at all. November is when the temp started to drop here. We were
getting 40 degree F nights. About 5 of the batteries will come up to 7.75v
and 3 won't come up above 7.0 with the 12amps. I can get them up higher with
additional current. I've tried equalizing but so far it hasn't helped. When
I measured the SG, I did draw up some black or gray particles. It's now
difficult to accelerate from a stop without the voltage dropping below 63v.
They also seem to self discharge quickly although it's difficult to tell if
they've really been fully charged. Two of the batteries are also getting
hot, 50 degrees C, during charging. The temp is very different from the top
to the bottom of the battery with the bottom being at 50.
>
> I understand that these batteries should be charged at c/10 but I didn't
realize that using lower current could cause a problem. I've started running
a second charger during bulk last Friday but am I beating a dead horse with
this pack? Can it be recovered? Do you believe that charging with 12amps
instead of 24 could be the cause of this? Is charging to completion twice a
day reducing the life of the batteries? When I bought the Tropica, the 72v
pack had 2v volts across it. I brought it back to life and was getting near
20 miles range. I kept that pack for 9 months. You may remember helping me
with a Dv/Dt algorithm for that charger. This pack has only 7 months on it.
I want to make sure I don't kill a pack every 7-9 months!
>
> thanks for you advice,
> Steve
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I want to know is...how did 7 kids fit onto the jeep? It must be
bigger than ours.
That sounds like our girls (make it faster!). Only problem is they also
want to play demolition derby occasionally.
At 36V, the stock breaker may not work. I like the emergency cutoff I got
for the go kart I'm working on. 50V, 400A continuous, 2000A surge, lever
actuated. I got it from Waytek Wire, about $100. It's pretty big, but
provides a definite lever to pull to kill the system.
Why not bring it to the next NEDRA race? Maybe he could set a 36V record to
go with your 48V record:-) Seriously, two 13 ah hawkers fit nicely under
the hood with some judicious plastic work, and you've already found places
to put others. Less weight for the shorter run. Maybe you could squeeze in
two under the seat for a 48V system. Switch back to the 26 ah batteries for
normal use.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Smalley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:59 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
>
> We have an very old power wheels jeep. I tried putting a group 31 under
> the
> seat and found that it wheelies very easy. You need to keep a battery in
> the
> front compartment to keep the front end down.
>
> I have put one 26 AHr Hawker in the front compartment and one under the
> seat. The range was very good.
>
> One stock motor burned up with them in series running on 24 volts. The
> breaker is apparently designed for the motors in parallel. There were
> seven
> kids on it when the motor burned up going up a 20% grade.
>
> We currently have an 18 volt tape drive motor with an 8:1 dual reduction
> chain drive to a differential. The jeep has a 4 inch lift kit installed.
> The
> front axle has been upgraded from 7/16 inch rod to 5/8 inch rod and the
> rear
> axle has been upgraded from 7/16 inch rod to 3/4 inch rod. The new axles
> have not bent. The wheels have been upgraded to 10 inch outside diameter
> pneumatic tires. Five inch wide in the back and 3 1/2 inch wide in the
> front. The tie rods gave out so they have been replaced with 1/8 by 1 inch
> flat bar. The stock circuit breaker is the footboard is working just fine
> as
> well as the switches in the dash. The original foot switch died a melted
> death. The are not sealed and dirt got into the contacts causing a high
> resistance. When the jeep refused to stop, I ran after it and pulled the
> dash switch to turn off the motor. The foot switch was melted in the on
> position. I tried some Shucks push button switches but they burned up too.
> I
> got a waterproof marine starter switch from NAPA that has run perfectly
> for
> months.
>
> My five year old told me tonight that he needs bigger batteries. Two SVRs
> just are not enough range for him. He ran them dead between noon and five
> p.m.. I asked him if he wanted to go faster or farther. He chose faster. I
> have a third SVR coming to upgrade from 24 volts to 36 volts. I will have
> to
> bypass the series\parallel switch on the dash to use 36 volts. Three SVRs
> fit very snugly under the hood but the hood actually closes properly.
>
> I have reservations about connecting 36 volts of SVRs to the motor at a
> stop. I expect it to wheelie in forward and wear out the tires in reverse.
> I
> thought a resistor in series with the motor would cut the torque from a
> stop. The contactor controller could then either sense the voltage across
> the resistor to tell when to hit the direct contactor or just use a timer
> to
> hit the direct contactor. It could be inhibited to keep the direct
> contactor
> from activating in reverse. We caught the neighbor kid doing roll backs in
> the yard trying to get it to wheelie. It would do very good wheelies if
> there was a third kid standing on the rear bumper holding onto the roll
> bar.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lightning Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:27 PM
> Subject: Re: fun with powerwheels 2...
>
>
> > Humm, how about series/parallel shifting for speed control?
> > step 1 - 12v
> > step 2 - 24v
> > Just need an extra switch for the accellerator and perhaps
> > some relays and creative wireing for the batteries.
> >
> > L8r
> > Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did in fact use Nels Strandberg for the adapter
plate in the Civic. He did a fantastic job, despite
miles between us (physically). Heavy-duty supply
material, all the right equipment to get the job done.
On the other hand, you'll be hard-pressed to find a
more dedicated EV enthusiast than him.
I wish you success.
--- Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wow!
> What a great number of responses, both on and off
> list.
>
> Thanks everyone!
>
> I can see I'll be spending much of tomorrow checking
> them out.
>
> At 5:07 PM -0700 3-10-04, David Chapman wrote:
> >Otmar, how physically big are the parts and how
> much material do you need
> >removed? BTW, Bill @ Grifftek, got your ears on?
> This might be something for
> >you. I think you are in Otmars area. Regards, David
> Chapman.
>
> They are at most 15" long, and don't need a lot of
> material removed,
> but it does have to be accurately removed. :-) It's
> been designed
> to be a pretty simple job on a CNC mill, I think we
> figured about 10
> minutes machine time per part once it was all set
> up.
>
> At 5:18 PM -0800 3-10-04, Rod Hower wrote:
> >Otmar,
> >I'm not sure what the problem is
> www.emachineshop.com,
> >but I would like to know since I plan on using them
> >at some point. I know you can import .dxf to their
> >program, but I'm not awhare of the limitations
> you're
> >talking about. Enlighten EV'rybody on the list.
> >I'm also not sure how competitive their pricing is
> >compared to what you have used previously, do you
> >have a quote?
> >I'm sure there are plenty of hungry CNC shops
> around
> >wanting work, I'll see what I can find in this
> area.
> >Rod
>
> Last time I tried, which was back when it was last
> discussed on the
> list, they could only import 2D DXF, and when I
> tried to spec a
> chamfer on both sides of a hole the program wouldn't
> do it. So I
> asked tech support who claimed that it could be done
> but did not
> describe how to do it. It seemed to me that the
> program was seriously
> lacking in 3D capability at the time. I didn't see a
> way to flip the
> part to do operations on the sides or bottom.
>
> At that point my general impression was that they
> were just trying to
> cater to non-professionals (as they did not respond
> to me in a caring
> way as I would expect from a professional operation)
> so I figured I
> was wasting my time trying to get a quote from them.
> Especially since
> I already had my parts designed in Solidworks and
> didn't need to try
> to put them in their system with a clunky interface.
> I felt even
> worse that most of the CAD applications I've used on
> the Mac! :-)
>
> I don't know, once the part is in their machine they
> may or may not
> be cost competitive. I just got quit trying to find
> out.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We currently have an 18 volt tape drive motor with
> an 8:1 dual reduction
> chain drive to a differential. The jeep has a 4 inch
I have a couple of these 18V tape drive motors
on Ebay right now,
Item 3802746338
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3802746338&category=42920&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1
Item 3802745949
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3802745949&category=42920&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I work at a small machine shop with an underutilized CNC. I'll foward
your email to my boss.
We are in Fresno Ca, are you wanting someone in your area?
Do you do solid works?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James;
Sorry to use up List space but my E mail bounced to ya directly, so I'll
try again. Want one, would be a fun thing on trips to check E mail. Hit me
back off List.
Thanks
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:15 PM
Subject: More on the laptops for sale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 3.7 times the torque the AC induction
motor is deep into saturation, so I believe the
efficiency number.
The efficiency of this motor is no better than some
of the Neodyneum Iron Boron BLDC motors that I play
with. I think the 'inovation' they are talking about
is the high power/torque output for the size of the
motor.
Rod
--- Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm, they are claiming AC induction motors that
> are50% efficient at
> 3.7X rated torque. And claiming that theirs are 90%.
> Not very likely.
> And seeing as you can buy 90+% efficiency AC
> induction drive that runs
> peak power far beyond what the normal frame size
> would indicate, this
> is nothing new.
>
> Seth
> On Mar 11, 2004, at 3:20 AM, garry wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > Thought some of you might find this interesting.
> >
> > http://www.rasertech.com/news_report_b.html
> >
> > Garry Stanley
> >
> > Cable.net.nz
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The efficiency of this motor is no better than some
> of the Neodyneum Iron Boron BLDC motors that I play
> with. I think the 'inovation' they are talking about
> is the high power/torque output for the size of the
> motor
Is this much different from the AC motors Victor sells? It's been a while since
EVS-20 and no-one made mention of this company, but then, their site does look
like another investor-gathering device.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's one of the annoying things about the e-meter. The rs232 version
spits out data once per second, but not the same data you can access
from the meter display itself.
In particular, the rs232 data string contains the bar graph state, so
just an integer from 1 to 5 for how many of the bar graph LEDs are lit
up, so 20% SOC jumps. Actually I think it goes up to 6 out of 5, which
is when the top bar is flashing to tell you the charge parameters have
been met.
The rs232 packet does not give the percentage (0-100%) like the display
can be set to show.
I'll try and remember to send a sample data string when I'm at my
windoze computer tomorrow.
(and besides, you need to finish my controller first :-)
Otmar wrote:
Woo Hoo! I'll hope they don't use a temp sensor inside the processor,
because if it's on the PCB then I'm sure we can override it and drive it
with SOC data from the Emeter.
...
I'm almost ready to order one, except I don't have a emeter that spits
out SOC.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The water won't bother the motor or the electricity flowing
through it. The brushes have much less resistance then the water
so of course the current seeks that path. In fact, I sometimes use
my cordless drill underwater, like at the bottom of the pool. I
wouldn't suggest trying that with a corded drill!
See the Alltrax site where they are testing their Golf Cart
Controllers. http://www.alltraxinc.com/images/P2220019.JPG
Don't leave your motor underwater for extended periods it needs to
dry out, but if your running it it won't be affected. Unless maybe
your running it really hot and go through a really cold puddle
then maybe you could damage it, but I doubt it.
Stay Charged!
Hump
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:35:46 -0000
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:25 PM
>To: EVlist
>Subject: afraid of the water?
>
>
>I live in sunny fresno california, but we get some decent puddles
in the
>winter.(more fog than sun sometimes)
>
>How do you protect open motors like the Advanced DC 9" motor from
puddles?
>
>Will I be able to take my EV through a car wash?, or am I asking
for
>trouble?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was a simple fix from the options area then security. The attachments
wern't erased just blocked. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: EV digest 3395
> Outlook express is erasing all the attachments from my EV Digests.
Anybody
> had this problem and cured it. Thanks for any help. Lawrence Rhodes
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:31 AM -0500 3-11-04, Jim Coate wrote:
That's one of the annoying things about the e-meter. The rs232
version spits out data once per second, but not the same data you
can access from the meter display itself.
In particular, the rs232 data string contains the bar graph state,
so just an integer from 1 to 5 for how many of the bar graph LEDs
are lit up, so 20% SOC jumps. Actually I think it goes up to 6 out
of 5, which is when the top bar is flashing to tell you the charge
parameters have been met.
Oh, that's no fun. Better than nothing but not great. I guess one
could just display the Amp Hours, I think mine even does that.
(and besides, you need to finish my controller first :-)
Don't worry it's done, I just need to test your Hairball with a few
others. With any luck it will go out tomorrow.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers in production, see them here.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is this much different from the AC motors Victor sells? It's
> been a while since EVS-20 and no-one made mention of this
> company, but then, their site does look like another
> investor-gathering device.
Raser was at EVS-20 with a hybrid snowmobile and an electric
Toyota/Tiger Truck. I never saw a single motor turn in their booth (it
was not obvious that there were any batteries onboard the hybrid
snowmobile, and the Optima group 31's in the Tiger Truck were not wired
up).
The controllers looked nice, but appeared to be prototypes built using
large power device modules (at least when the controller box had any
guts at all ;^).
The motors differ from Victor's in that (as I recall) they are
air-cooled, and look more or less like an ADC (i.e. about that size,
shape, and painted black).
Looking at their website and the independent test results plot
"Operation at Full Torque", notice that the rated torque of the Raser
motor is 3.7x that of the standard AC induction motor it is being
compared to, and that both motors exhibit near identical 88-89%
efficiency when operated at their rated torque; the standard AC
induction motor efficiency drops to 50% when it is operated at 3.7x its
rated torque, but they are careful not to show what the Raser motor does
when it is similarly overloaded...
When all is said and done, I don't know how much faith I would put in
their motor claims, but that hybrid snowmobile was certainly interesting
;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeff,
I have aquired the donar car. a 1987 nissan 300zx with perfect body,
current registration, rebuilt tranny and a motor that smokes a little.
have you seen the beginnings of my '72 240Z restoration/conversion?
Some things on the 240Z and 300ZX will be similar...let me know if you
have questions.
I was looking at the tranny and motor mounts and the mounts are
located a little ahead of middle of the engine block. I need to keep
tranny in original location of course.
this is a problem I have run into as well, and not yet decided on a
solution. I was thinking just make my own motor clamp halfway along
the motor and make some mounts to attach it to the sub-frame rails
through some rubber, of course.
Er, uhm, I guess I'll keep the clutch?.
KEEP IT!!! If there's on thing I learned by doing a clutchless
conversion last time, KEEP THE CLUTCH. You can certainly get away
without it, but it is tough on your synchros and most important to me,
it slows you down a fair bit while you wait that 1-2 seconds to shift
between gears. Since you're doing a 300ZX I am guessing you want some
performance. Keep the clutch. I bought a Centerforce brand unit for
my 240Z. I also finally found a competent machinist to make my motor
hub.
I am wanting to build a car that can do daily commutes and still
showcase electrics on friday' nights and weekends. How quick would a
warp9 or advanced DC 9" and a zilla 1K be? Batteries will be a
challenge. I am thinking 20 exide orbitals, PFC20, and a balancer of
course.
I am shooting for performance close to or a little better than stock.
I have a 9" WarP, T-Rex 1000 (trying to sell it and get a zilla) and am
planning 192V of optimas probably, or orbitals. Here in Maine, not 5
miles from my house, I can get optimas for $125 but the best I can do
on orbitals is $135 in worcester, MA. My concern with putting 240V in
a 240Z (wouldn't that be perfect?) is that the car is built really
lightly and I don't want to overload it. Even adding a small block V8
to a Z car (a common 'conversion') adds just under 200 lbs. I think
I'll stick with 192 but I think you can probably do 240 in a ZX ok.
should be a fun conversion, keep us all up to date and take lots of
pictures.
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Seth -
evsource.com has a banner ad from auto supply for Orbitals at $98 plus
whatever shipping is but I can't imagine more than $10/battery.
Maybe we should get together for a group order as I'm going to be
looking too? 16(?) for you + 17 for me = 33+ batteries. Then can talk to
regular suppliers or maybe try John Wayland himself?
And I like the Maine version of Motel 6 rates... $33 bux for a night.
I'm selling enough crap on eBay to more than pay for my contra trip :-)
Come to think of it, you might want to eBay your T-Rex. This is kinda
rude, but the masses may be less well informed than EVDL members and be
more willing to buy obsolete products. I think someone sold a aircraft
generator & contactors VW conversion kit on eBay for serious money. And
Ryan is giving $200 off Zillas from evsource.com for the month of March.
cya.
Jim
Seth Murray wrote:
I am shooting for performance close to or a little better than stock. I
have a 9" WarP, T-Rex 1000 (trying to sell it and get a zilla) and am
planning 192V of optimas probably, or orbitals. Here in Maine, not 5
miles from my house, I can get optimas for $125 but the best I can do on
orbitals is $135 in worcester, MA. My concern with putting 240V in a
240Z (wouldn't that be perfect?) is that the car is built really lightly
and I don't want to overload it. Even adding a small block V8 to a Z
car (a common 'conversion') adds just under 200 lbs. I think I'll stick
with 192 but I think you can probably do 240 in a ZX ok. should be a
fun conversion, keep us all up to date and take lots of pictures.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DOH!!!
That was of course meant as a personal message. Stupid reply button.
Well, Ryan just got a shameless plug and now you all know I'm something
of a dance gypsy.
Off to hide in the sand.
Jim Coate wrote:
Hey Seth -
<snip!!!!>
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have US125's in my electric Jeep now and follow Trojan's
> C/40 final charge dv/dt=0 taper recommendation.
What sort of voltages are you seeing by end of charge? If you track
specific gravities, what sort of values are you seeing?
> There is not
> a minimum current that I'm aware of, it just takes longer to
> charge with less current.
This is Trojan's position on the issue, but not US Battery's. Trojan
recommends a charge rate of 10-13% of C/20, but says that while they
recommend a minimum of 7% of C/20, the only effect of charging *their*
batteries at a lower rate is longer charge duration (unless the current
is so low that the batteries never come up to the recommended charge
voltage).
US Battery, however, states that it is essential that *their* product
see 10-13% of C/20 for at least the first few minutes of charge to help
break up sulfation and avoid premature shedding of plate material,
especially if the batteries are deeply cycled.
> I think that you mentioned your
> pack was 2V and that probably did it in, not the current from
> the charger,
Steve's first pack came to him at 2V, and he was able to recover it and
got 9 months use from it.
His second pack (of brand new US125s) lasted about 7 months.
> mine is in the 10-12 amp range also and I
> typically get 14k miles from 6Ver's and 10k miles from 8Ver's
> before complete replacement.
How many cycles does this correspond to? Steve puts 2 cycles a day on
his pack (drive to work, charge, drive home, charge), so although his
miles may not be high, the number of cycles could be.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I needed.
> sounds like the PFC-50 is the way to go.
>
> Gadget
> --- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would store about 2x the energy capacity of the
> > car.
>
> =====
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
Gadget??
Is this a order?
I just happen to have a PFC50 on the power bench right now. I did punch
over 15 Kw of grid through it in testing.
If I am a good boy today I will finish it so I can play Dyno for the
rest of the week.
How much and what kind of battery pack are we talking about? I can give
you time estimates on recharge. It does 15 to 20 minute passes on
Goldie's 13 Yts. 10Kw into a pack that only has 2kwhr out of it is quick
work.
Or... do we have a use for Multi PFC50 work, and a large 240 VDC
flooded pack to dump into a 144 pack, and Zero time to make it happen?
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Roger Stockton
>Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:38 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: battery trouble
>
>
>Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> I have US125's in my electric Jeep now and follow Trojan's
>> C/40 final charge dv/dt=0 taper recommendation.
>
>What sort of voltages are you seeing by end of charge? If you
track
>specific gravities, what sort of values are you seeing?
>
>> There is not
>> a minimum current that I'm aware of, it just takes longer to
>> charge with less current.
>
>This is Trojan's position on the issue, but not US Battery's.
Trojan
>recommends a charge rate of 10-13% of C/20, but says that while
they
>recommend a minimum of 7% of C/20, the only effect of charging
*their*
>batteries at a lower rate is longer charge duration (unless the
current is
>so low that the batteries never come up to the recommended charge
voltage).
Recommended end of charge voltages could be quite different. I
have a couple of Trojan T-105's and 6 Exide T-105 type batteries
for my Elec-trak. The Trojans came with it(unk age) and the Exides
(Sams Club) are 1 yr old(built in Apr last yr, bought in May). The
Trojans however, though older, are consistantly .3 volts higher at
end of charge(24hr rest) than the Exides. I don't have SG
measurements to compare, but will start logging them.
>
>US Battery, however, states that it is essential that *their*
product see
>10-13% of C/20 for at least the first few minutes of charge to
help break up
>sulfation and avoid premature shedding of plate material,
especially if the
>batteries are deeply cycled.
Sounds like US benefits from gulp charging, just like Hawkers do!
>
>> I think that you mentioned your
>> pack was 2V and that probably did it in, not the current from
>> the charger,
>
>Steve's first pack came to him at 2V, and he was able to recover
it and got
>9 months use from it.
>
Excellent!
>His second pack (of brand new US125s) lasted about 7 months.
>
Not so Excellent!
>> mine is in the 10-12 amp range also and I
>> typically get 14k miles from 6Ver's and 10k miles from 8Ver's
>> before complete replacement.
>
>How many cycles does this correspond to? Steve puts 2 cycles a
day on his
>pack (drive to work, charge, drive home, charge), so although his
miles may
>not be high, the number of cycles could be.
Which raises a question I have asked before but not got an answer
to;
How much of a cycle is considered a cycle. Any time electrons
reverse directions?, or is there a SOC level to determine a cycle.
If I pull my Elec-trak into the driveway, then back it back into
the garage and plug it in (it will start the charger
automatically) do I count that as a cycle? Or should I only count
significant discharges? Perhaps instead of counting numbers of
cycles we should be counting amount of kwh(ah) exchanges. This
would be more informative regarding battery cycle life I think.
Lets see;
the following data is not real
500 cycles 10% discharge 10 ah exchanged 5000 ah total
62 cycles 80% discharge 80 ah exchanged ~5000 ah total
5 cycles 100% discharge 100 ah exchanged 5000 ah total
I wonder if a history like that would actually indicate a battery
life-cycle like that.
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>Cheers,
>
>Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are after market guages panels available that mount to the A pillars
next to the windsheild.
They typically have the round cups for 2 inch gauges, but you might be able
to modify them or make up something similar for other size or shape objects.
They have an added advantage of putting the gauge were it's easy to see.
I had one in one of the pickups for a tach, pyrometer and a turbo boost gauge.
Bob
At 03:12 PM 3/8/04 -0600, you wrote:
I like stuff to look as clean and OEM as possible, so I like the look of
cutting a hole and having a gage attach using the clamp mount and bezel that
came with it. It leaves no visible seam or attachment screws. An
alternative is to use a quality aftermarket mount designed for the vehicle.
That said, I haven't had astonishing success in this area, but it doesn't
look -too- bad, either.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Gadgets on the dash question
>
> Fellow EVers,
>
> I'd like people's expertise/suggestions on how one would
> like to semi-permanently mount a gadget (about a cell phone
> size) on a dash of a modern car.
>
> Drill holes in it an use expandable base drywall screws?
> Suction caps / duct tape / bunji cords? :-)
>
> How would *you* mount a gadget on your dash?
> I saw what Garmin offers for their GPS units (I have one)
> and I don't quite like it.
>
> Of course, if you find a spot and make a hole for it
> like for an e-meter, this is no longer a concern.
>
> Objective is no/minimal damage to the dash material should
> you (re)move the gadget, but have it solidly mounted
> outside the dash without excessive mods like for those
> computers in police cars.
>
> Which brings another option: what do you prefer -
> in dash mounting or outside? If both options are
> available, which one would you pick (pros/cons) and why?
>
> Thanks for comments,
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> I would store about 2x the energy capacity of the car. If the car
> will carry 7 kWh, then plan on installing 14 kWh of storage in the
> dump charger.
Good advice. Note that the batteries in your dump pack can be cheap or
used batteries that aren't suitable for use in an EV because their
power/weight ratio is too low.
> The best way to control the dump charger is with a PWM controller.
I agree. But you should add an inductor in series with the batteries
being charged. The PWM controller needs the inductance of a motor or its
current limit won't work. If your EV has a series motor and PWM
controller, you can use its controller and the field winding of the
motor for your dump charger controller.
> The way I would do dump charging is with a PFC-50 running as a DC
> to DC converter.
The PFC-50 is a more elegant solution, that has charge control and that
big inductor built-in.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
T Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Recommended end of charge voltages could be quite different. I
> have a couple of Trojan T-105's and 6 Exide T-105 type batteries
> for my Elec-trak. The Trojans came with it(unk age) and the Exides
> (Sams Club) are 1 yr old(built in Apr last yr, bought in May). The
> Trojans however, though older, are consistantly .3 volts higher at
> end of charge(24hr rest) than the Exides. I don't have SG
> measurements to compare, but will start logging them.
While it is true that 'recommended' charge voltages may be different for
Trojans than for Exides (as they are for US Battery), the observed
end-of-charge voltages will almost certainly differ from one set of
batteries to the next based on the actual [ab]usage history of the
batteries as well as make, etc.
Hile the end-of-charge voltage is not a great indicator, what I'm hoping
to determine is if Mark's dv/dt algorithm is successful in bringing his
US125s up to at least the US Battery recommended 2.583Vpc by the end of
charge. (Since a dv/dt algorithm typically charges to a lower voltage,
like 2.35Vpc, then holds that until the current drops to some low level,
and then holds the low current until the dv/dt criteria is satisfied, I
can be reasonably certain that only at the end of charge do Mark's
batteries have any hope of reaching the US Battery recommended level.)
> How much of a cycle is considered a cycle. Any time electrons
> reverse directions?, or is there a SOC level to determine a cycle.
My understanding is that every time you discharge the pack (however
little) and recharge it is a cycle. Obviously, the shallower the cycle,
the greater the cycle life of the pack, so shallow cycles don't 'count'
as much in terms of figuring pack life.
> Perhaps instead of counting numbers of
> cycles we should be counting amount of kwh(ah) exchanges. This
> would be more informative regarding battery cycle life I think.
Absolutely! What matters in the end is not how many months or cycles
that the pack lasts, but rather how many kWh you were able to get out of
it over its lifetime. If you do deep cycles, the number of cycles may
look poor, but you may still get a similar kWh throughput as someone who
does a much larger number of shallow cycles.
Measuring pack lifetime in kWh of throughput is a more 'portable' figure
of merit for comparison purposes than lifetime in miles since every
vehicle will get a different Wh/mi efficiency based on its
configuration, the user's driving style, and the terrain, among other
things.
FWIW, I think something like an 80% DOD is considered to be the most
efficient operating point. I'm not sure if this results in greater kWh
throughput at the battery, or just the lowest kWh throughput when
measured at the outlet (i.e. shallow discharges result in more of the
charge time being spent in the less efficient end-of-charge phase(s) and
so result in more kWh being consumed from the outlet for a given number
of kWh extracted from the battery).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
